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A35667 Truth outweighing error, or, An ansvver to a treatise lately published by J.B. entituled, A confession of his faith and a reason of his practice, or, With who he can, and with who he cannot hold church-fellowship ... by John Denne ... J. D. (John Denne) 1673 (1673) Wing D1027; ESTC R11873 57,462 128

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Ordinance of God a duty enjoyned such who receive the Gospel And what can be more said if it be a duty enjoyned it is a necessary duty c. Wherefore I shall only add for Confirmation some Arguments as follow viz. Arg. 1. If the non-subjection to Baptism debars men from Church-Communion Then the subjection thereto is necessary in order to Church-Communion But the non-subjection to Baptism debars men from Church-Communion Ergo. The Major is undeniable the Minor I shall prove thus Arg. 2. If the walking disorderly not according to the Traditions received from the Apostles debars men from Church-Communion Then the non-subjection to Baptism debars men from Church-Communion But the walking disorderly not according to the Traditions received from the Apostles debars men from Church-Communion Ergo. The Minor is proved 2 Thess 3.6 where the Apostle commands That all who walk disorderly not according to their Traditions should be debarred Communion The Major I prove thus Arg. 3. If the non-subjection to Baptism be a disorderly walking not according to the Traditions of the Apostles Then the Major is true But the non-subjection to Baptism is a disorderly walking not according to the Traditions of the Apostles Ergo. Nothing in this Argument can be questioned except the Minor and that surely cannot be denied by John Bunyan with whom I have now to deal for by his own Confession pag. 64. Baptism is an Ordinance of Jesus Christ an holy Ordinance of God pag. 123. and that of excellent use to instruct in the most weighty matters of the Kingdom of God p. 65. an enjoyned Duty p. 122. an apparant Tradition of the Apostles for in those dayes he confesseth pag. 70. it was administred upon Conversion and used then to go before Church-Communion Again Arg. 4. If the non-subjection to Baptism be a sin against God a rejecting the Counsel of God against our selves and the breach of a good Conscience Then it debars men from Church-Communion But the non-subjection to Baptism is a sin against God a rejecting the Counsel of God against our selves and the breach of a good Conscience Ergo. The Major I think none can deny and the Minor is evident by John Bunyan's own Confession as aforesaid and the Scriptures before alleaged Matth. 28.19 7.29 1 Pet. 3.21 Further Arg. 5. If all Church-Members in the Apostles dayes were baptized Then Baptism is necessary to Church-Communion But all Church-Members in the Apostles dayes were baptized Ergo. One would think this Argument should put the matter out of doubt both Propositions being acknowledged by John Bunyan himself yea urged by him as weighty truths for he makes the Example of the Primitive New-Testament-Churches the ground of his Communion p. 52. yea so far that he saith He dares not do otherwise than they did And if we follow that Rule proposed by himself we must not do otherwise and what then Surely they baptized all Church-members before Communion as he confesseth pag. 91. But that I may not conclude with the Confession of a man so various although it may well be alleaged against himself as in one little Treatise to speak so many inconsistencies I shall proceed to another Argument Arg. 6. If all Church-members are commanded to be baptized Then the subjection to Baptism is necessary to Church-Communion But all Church-members are commanded to be baptized Ergo. The Major is apparent The Minor I prove thus Arg. 7. If Baptism is commanded to all Disciples Then it is commanded to all Church-members But Baptism is commanded to all Disciples Ergo. No man can doubt of the truth of the Major that believeth Church-members to be Disciples which I suppose no Christian in his right mind will deny And the Minor I shall prove from the words of Christ Matth. 28.19 20. Go teach all Nations baptizing them c. the Text is read 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 c. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which being interpreted is Disciple ye all Nations baptizing them c. viz. those that are Discipled as by the Grammatical construction of the words may appear teaching them that is the baptized Disciples to observe or keep diligently all things whatsoever I have commanded you One whereof was to baptize those that were discipled But it seems that either J. B. was never a baptized Disciple or that his Instructors forgot to teach him this Rule of Christ or else he hath soon forgotten what he learned if it be not a perverse transgressing of what he knoweth and so guilty of many stripes Luk. 12.47 But to return since John Bunyan is pleased notwithstanding his aforementioned Confessions to deny Baptism to be the Rule of Communion let us hear what Rule he would have which he thus declares pag. 78. Even that rule by which they are discovered to the Church to be visible Saints and willing to be gathered into their Body and Fellowship Answ Well said but how must that be if not by obedience to Christ's Ordinances to the holy Ordinances of God yea the Principles of the Doctrine of Christ is not the subjecting thereto a discovery of a visible Saint and a willingness to be gathered into the Body even the Church John Bunyan to this pag. 79. answers No it is not saith he the practising of a circumstantial but the commendation of their Faith by the Word of Faith and their conversation by a moral Precept wherefore he tells us pag. 79. That when Paul had declared his Faith he falls down to the body of the Law saying Receive us we have wronged no man we have corrupted no man we have defrauded no man 2 Cor. 7.2 From whence with divers such Instances and Paraphrases of his own thereupon he concludes pag. 79. That by the Word of Faith and good Works viz. Moral Duties Gospelized we ought to judge of the fitness of Members by which we ought also to receive them into Fellowship Answ We read that Moses put a vail over his face to hinder the splendor of his countenance from dazling the eyes of the beholders but lo here J. B. puts a vail over his face to impede the discovery of his perverting the Ordinances of God and the Rule of Communion which that I may so far put away that he may appear as he is Concerning what is said Consider First how this Thesis is consistent with John Bunyan's own judgment concerning Circumcision for sure Baptism is not more a Circumstance than that yet by his own grant that was of old the Rule of Communion Secondly Why in his sense he should call Baptism a Circumstance I know not it hath been proved a Principle of the Doctrine of Christ a Foundation-principle Heb. 6.1 A necessary duty a duty enjoyned to those that receive the Gospel and is it notwithstanding all this but such a Circumstance the Lord God of Heaven judge between us Again He comes to affirm pag. 79. what is the Rule of Communion viz. To have our Faith commended by the Word of Faith and our Conversation by a
in vain thus God deals with men whereof he complains Isa 49.4 I have laboured in vain I have spent my strength for nought and in vain Insomuch that in justification of himself against John Bunyan and such others he appeals to his Enemies in the case viz. Judge I pray you what could I have done more for Sinners than I have done Isa 5.4 I have given my Son to redeem them from death and in him I have also offered them Eternal Salvation which I have invited them to imbrace and also endeavoured to effect in their hearts by the motions of my holy Spirit for the operation whereof I have waited even until I perceived all my endeavours to be in vain my Spirit is resisted and in despite thereof they have persisted in wickedness wherein what could I have done more or what can I now do save only bewail their folly in that they should so against my will forsake their own mer●●●●… Jona 2.8 and that also the Lord frequently doth he grieveth for the destruction of Sinners Jer. 4.19 My bowels my bowels I am pained at my very heart Not that God hath Bowels or an Heart like men but the bowels of the Father are his tender mercies and great compassion being unwilling to punish For the Lord doth not afflict willingly nor grieve the Children of Men Lam. 3.33 It is hard with the Lord viz. against his good pleasure How saith he shall I give thee up O backsliding Ephraim How shall I deliver thee to death O sinful Israel How shall I make thee as Adama How shall I set thee as Zeboim My heart is turned within me my repentings are kindled together Hos 11.8 Thus the Son of God being like unto his Father in compassion when he beheld Jerusalem Luk. 19.41 42. he wept over it because they would not know the things that belong to their peace he was grieved for the hardness of their hearts Mark 3.5 wishing it had been otherwise O that thou hadst hearkned to my Commandments Isa 48.18 O that Israel had walked in my wayes Psa 81.16 What great compassion is this what demonstrations of love are here When Jesus wept for Lazarus Joh. 11.35 The Jews looked upon it as a great demonstration of love and is it not so in God towards Sinners When David wept after Abner's Bier and bewailed him it is said 2 Sam. 3.37 That all Israel understood that day that the death of Abner was not of the King but far contrary to his mind And surely also we may conclude from what hath been alleaged that the death of Sinners is not of our God he never determined any such thing neither is he any ways the cause thereof it is far from him whereby as we may perceive the death of Sinners is altogether of themselves and not by or through God's blinding them So the order of his Election may be perceived contrary to John Bunyan's Faith the Confession whereof I have now done with having offered thus much because that God is much dishonoured and many People deceived through the not understanding these things I come now to the Reason of his Practice in Worship J.B. pag. 48. Wherein he first distinguisheth between those with whom he dares not have Communion and those with whom he dares have Communion with I suppose he means Concerning what he saith touching those with whom he dare not have Communion I shall leave him unto himself only take notice That those who do not profess Faith and Holiness yea the open Prophane may be nearer Heaven than those that pretend great Zeal without Knowledge Our Saviour said of old Matth. 21.31 That the Publicans and Harlots enter into the Kingdom of God before you But I shall now consider what J. B. saith concerning whom he dare which he thus declares I dare have Communion yea Church-Communion with those that are visible Saints by calling with those that by the Word of the Gospel have been brought over to Faith and Holiness pag. 65. Although as afterwards he declares as well as in his Title Page they dissent about Water-Baptism Answ If J. Bunyan had only said this I know not who would have gainsaid nay if he had told us that he could have Communion with the Church of Rome I know not who would have opposed him except the Catholicks themselves who peradventure considering the Errors of his Faith would not judge him fit for Communion with them But John Bunyan proceeds to perswade others to do the same and therefore he urgeth greatly the reason of his Practice to draw Disciples after him I wish the event be not as Christ said to the Pharisees Matt. 23.15 Ye compass Sea and Land to make one Proselyte and when he is made ye make him twofold more the Child of Hell But before we judge let us hear him speak let us weigh what is said therein I readily perceive he hath learned what Solomon saith Prov. 1.17 That in vain is the Net spread in the sight of any Bird Wherefore by crafty insinuations and subtile evasions he endeavoureth to darken Counsel the better to undermine the hearts of the weak that his deceit might not be discovered Wherefore not suddenly coming to the matter he endeavoureth by fair pretences although mixt with tautologies and incongruous relations to pre-engage the Reader Quest And then at length propounds this question pag. 70. By what rule would you receive him into Fellowship To which he answers himself thus Even by a discovery of their Faith and Holiness and their declaration of willingness to subject themselves to the Laws and Government of Christ in his Church Quest This answer being given he offers a second question viz. But do you not count that by Water-Baptism and not otherwise that being the initiating and entring Ordinance they ought to be received into Fellowship To this he presumes to answer No Answ If I understand this answer it denies Baptism to be a discovery of Faith and Holiness or a declaration of willingness to subject to the Laws of Christ in his Church for the Question is Do you not count that by Water-baptism c. which must have respect to the former description of his Rule wherein it seems Water-Baptism hath now no part and in truth it must be so excluded by J. Bunyan's opinion for otherwise that in despight of what he hath said would be the Rule proposed by himself But herein hath not John Bunyan forgot himself Pag. 64. he acknowledgeth Water-baptism to be an Ordinance of Christ a holy Ordinance a duty enjoyned to such as have received the Gospel before yet now he denies it to be a discovery of Faith and Holiness or a declaration of willingness to subject to the Laws of Christ in his Church pag. 122 123. What impudent Contradictions are here an Ordinance of Christ an holy Ordinance a duty enjoyned to Gospel-Receivers and yet no discovery of Faith Is not Faith discovered by Works Jam. 2.17 And by what works if not obedience to
Moral Precept c. Wherein know that the Word of Faith according to Paul's mind Rom. 10.7 8. is Christ And what Faith doth he commend surely not a bare Profession which consists only in words but that Faith which presently produceth obedience For so he saith Luk. 6.46 Why call ye me Lord Lord and do not the things that I say of which Baptism is one yea a great Duty to which also the Apostle bares witness 1 Joh. 2.3 He that saith he knoweth him and keepeth not his Commandments of which J. Bunyan confesseth Baptism to be one and that of great use is a lyar and the truth is not in him But perhaps John Bunyan will say He would have works attend Faith and therefore he adds our Conversation must be commended by a Moral Precept Wherein let me ask J. Bunyan or any rational Christian how this is possible in divers cases as First upon Conversion when men are presently upon the Preaching of the Word turned from darkness to light and so are received as Church-members as soon as they are Converted who before were Fornicators Murtherers Thieves and what not 1 Cor. 6.11 but upon their Conversion are received as Church-members even the same day Acts 2.41 What experience can there be of their Conversion who were Adulterers the day before If you say they are changed now let me tell you it must appear otherwise than by so short forbearance which is common with the worst of men or else they may be as bad as ever and so John Bunyan's Rule very uncertain Secondly The most Holy Conversation in reference to what John Bunyan speaks cannot demonstrate a Christian for there are Wolves in Sheeps clothing Matth. 7.15 neither is it sufficient to be the Rule the initiating Rule for Church-Communion it must be said in this case as Christ once said Matth. 5.20 Except your righteousness exceed the righteousness of the Scribes and Pharisees ye cannot enter into the Kingdom of Heaven Was not Paul exact in such a Conversation before his Conversion Phil. 3.6 and it cannot be imagined that he did degenerate afterwards and yet when Ananias was sent to tell him what he must do he delivers his Message thus Acts 22.16 Why tarriest thou arise and be baptized Again Cornelius was a devout and holy man Acts 10.1 yet when he received the Truth and the Holy Spirit also abundantly Peter commands him to be baptized vers 46. Surely if John Bunyan's Rule had been sufficient John the Baptist might then upon good grounds have forbad the Baptism of Christ our Saviour who fulfilled all those Moral Precepts needed not have said Thus it behooveth us concerning Baptism to fulfill all Righteousness Wherefore although I must extol an holy Conversation in its due place wherein I wish that as the Apostle saith 2 Tim. 2.19 All that name the Name of our Lord Jesus Christ may depart from all iniquity yet let me tell you The Apostle never urged any part of the moral Law as the Rule of Communion under the Gospel and therefore John Bunyan is strangely mistaken to advise us to make use of the Ten Commandments pag 79. to judge of the fitness of persons by wherein if we have respect but to the 4th which enjoyns the Sabbath so exactly and upon such a penalty I cannot wonder that he should conceit Christian-tenderness would not be exceeded by such strictness whenas Christians are dehorted from judging one another therein Col. 2.16 And truly I wonder more that a wise man should alleage that instance of Paul 2 Cor. 7.2 as a Rule for Church-Communion when as he knows it was spoken to such as were begotten to the Faith through Paul's Ministry and it is then strange that he should offer that as a Rule for his reception amongst them when that in truth he speaks not at all in reference to Church-Communion but in a holy boasting of his own behaviour and the rest of the Apostles for the ornament of the Gospel Which notwithstanding John Bunyan pag. 80. fraudulently proceeds to defame the holy Ordinance of Baptism urging that it is said Rom. 14.18 The Kingdom of God or our service to Christ saith he consists not in meats and drinks but in righteousness peace and joy in the holy Ghost and he that in these things serveth Christ is accepted of God and approved of men which he afterwards tells you pag. 81. is meant of the Law given upon Sinai c. Answ John Bunyan saith pag. 45. That he believes that Jesus Christ by the Word of the Scriptures will judge all men at the day of Doom But sure if in his heart he thought so he would be afraid of a sharp censure if not the addition of many plagues for adding to the words of God and setting his post by the Lord's which here he doth in telling you That Paul saith Our service to Christ consists not in meats or drinks c. when that it is the Kingdom of God he speaks of which in this place I never read was understood of our service to Christ But if so what doth this respect Baptism The Apostle speaks only of meats and drinks which you may perceive by his words the Romans which J. B. confesseth were baptized did differ about which things also Paul where he exalts Baptism doth speak against wherefore what all this is to the matter in hand let a wise man judge except to shew John Bunyan's singularity which also appears in his Explication of Righteousness Peace and Joy in the holy Ghost which with many fair glosses he would have you to believe to be the moral Law given upon Sinai which notwithstanding what he saith appears not only an addition but even such a one as is inconsistent with the Scripture For First Righteousness Paul tells you comes not by the Law viz. the Law given upon Sinai Gal. 2.21 Secondly Peace cannot come by it because it cannot give life Gal. 3.21 neither joy for it could never make the comers thereunto perfect and what joy or peace in such an Estate there can be or in such a Law I know not But in truth the righteousness peace and joy in the Holy Ghost which the Apostle speaks of is none other but that which Christians are made partakers of in Christ Jesus without the works of the Law and therefore to say we must do this Righteousness is to derogate the honour of Christ and he that in the fruition thereof serveth Christ according to his appointments of which Baptism is confessed to be one of great use is accepted of God and approved of men without looking back to Sinai which J. Bunyan falsly calls pag. 81. a perfect Law contrary to the Scriptures and the holy men of old who call it weak and unprofitable Heb. 7.18 that which could not give life Gal. 3.21 or righteousness Gal. 2.21 nor make any of the comers thereunto perfect Heb. 7.19 But stay saith John Bunyan pag. 81. although this of old was declared thereof now
neither himself Apollo or Cephas were Crucified for them And also one Baptism they were not baptized into the Name of any but Christ wherefore he exhorts them to leave off their folly and pride and walk in love as they were commanded but not to slight Baptism as John Bunyan whose tongue hath no bounds is pleased to say Paul did making no matter at all thereof in respect to Church-Communion But I wish he may be ashamed of his thus wresting the Scriptures and the intentions of the Apostle who alwayes spake reverently with an holy estimation of Baptism not like John Bunyan who in a little Treatise both commends and depraves it thereby rendring himself conspicuous for his instability But if you ask why the Apostle spake after that manner saying I thank God I baptized none but Crispus and Gaius c. Know it was not because he made no matter thereof as to Church-Communion but to take away the occasion of their contention as he declares himself lest any should say I baptized in my own Name And whereas John Bunyan seems to take advantage at those words I know not whether I baptized any other And from thence concludes contrary to the Apostles thoughts That he did not heed who were baptized by any body as much as if he should say that he did not heed whether they were baptized or no. I must answer That I wonder any wise man should urge such a Conclusion from Paul's words especially John Bunyan who confesseth Baptism is an holy Ordinance and was obeyed by the Corinthians and if so Paul must needs know they were all baptized and then no matter by whom viz. which of the Apostles But to take away that occasion of boasting concerning himself he tells them he did not know whether he baptized any but the persons aforenamed which is no strange thing for a Minister to be ignorant of for unless he keep 't a Register how should he remember it There be some in our dayes that dare not slight Baptism touching Church-Communion yet can say in this case as Paul did Further whereas it is alleaged that Paul said I was not sent to Baptize but to Preach Know herein he did not slight Baptism but placed it in its due station That Paul was sent to baptize is evident for he tells you whom he did baptize and if he had no Commission for it then it may be truly said he baptized in his own Name But he intends that he was not principally sent to Baptize but to Preach as he saith in another case 1 Tim. 2.14 The Man was not deceived but the Woman Whence you have the same terms which must be understood the Man was not primarily deceived but the Woman as the Text saith was first in the transgression In the next place John Bunyan begins to flatter and tells you He would not teach men to break the least of God's Commands and acknowledgeth therein Baptism to be an holy Ordinance pag. 123. A duty enjoyned to such as receive the Gospel pag. 122. But it is the abuse thereof he saith wherein he himself is apparently guilty that he complains against and therein forgets himself and saith without any ground or truth What is Baptism Baptism is nothing What John Bunyan A holy Ordinance nothing an enjoyned Duty nothing Where are we now He answers pag. 124. That it is no strange thing for God cryed out against his own Institutions when abused by the People Isa 1.11 12. To what purpose is the multitude of your Sacrifices c. saith the Lord Reply But is not this John Bunyan's blindness or at least his crafty endeavours to insinuate his own opinion Did ever God cry out against his own Institutions against his own Appointments No verily the complaint was against the People that they performed such things contrary to God's Institutions and therefore it is not as J. Bunyan presumes to say that the Ordinances are nothing but to what purpose are they they are vain and why so because not performed according to the Institution wherefore the Lord adds Who hath required these things at your hands It must be known that God appoints the manner of the performance as well as the matter yea the qualifications of the persons performing it whereof if any be wanting we swerve from God's Institution wherein I will say of Baptism that although it is a necessary duty yet if it be not accompanied with such qualifications as God requires it profits not it is in vain So also may be said of Faith which without works is dead Jam. 2.20 yet verily it would be strange presumption for a man to say in general Faith is nothing yea if those Israelites whom Isaiah speaks of had walked honestly as to men which it seems they did not and denyed the offering Sacrifices the observation of the Sabbath and the appointed Feast I appeal to all sober Christians whether therein they would have been blameless No sure God often punisheth for the neglect of those Institutions and therefore I shall conclude the answer to this Reason with our Saviour's words Matth. 23.23 These things you ought to do and not to leave the other undone I come now to his 9th Reason pag. 125. which is this viz. If we shall reject visible Saints by calling Saints that have Communion with God that have received the Law at the hand of Christ that are of holy Conversation amongst men they desiring to have Communion with us as much as in us lyeth we take from them their priviledges and the blessings to which they are born of God Answ Oh man full of all subtilty how long wilt thou labour to deceive Can a man considering what hath been said be a visible Saint that denyeth Christ's Holy Ordinances Can we be assured that a man hath Communion with God who rejects his Counsel Can a man be said to receive the Law at the hands of Christ that denyeth his Institutions and lives in disobedience to a Duty enjoyned Can they truly desire Communion that refuse to obey Baptism when required What Paul saith to the Corinthians and other Saints is nothing to our present purpose for they were all baptized by your own confession And what you say afterwards concerning the Supper is as little unless you could prove that unbaptized persons have right thereto and ought to participate thereof which when you do you may peradventure have a further answer Touching what you say further in this Reason stuffed with Eighteen Fancies of your own brain I think a wise man will not judge me obliged to answer in particular Wherefore I will only say That it seems like the design of Baalam who of old was intended to curse Israel only herein appears a difference God met Baalam of old and forbade him thereby restraining his purposed designs But it seems as if God hath given this man over to belch out the fruit of his own imaginations that in him might be verified the prediction of our Saviour Matth.