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A14357 M. le Hucher minister of Amyens in France compelled to fly from the pure word of holy write; strucke dumme; and made to runne away Vppon the subiect of the B. Sacrament of the altar. By F. Francis Veron of the Society of Iesus, encountring him with the Bible of Geneua only. In the presence of the Duke de Longueuille. VVith a briefe and easie meanes, by which each Catholike may, in like manner, put to flight any minister or sectarie. Sent from Sieur de la Tour one of the sayd Dukes gentlemen, to Sieur de Rotois, gentleman of the Kings game.; Adrian Hucher ministre d'Amyens, mis à l'inquisition des passages de la Bible de Genève. English Véron, François, 1575-1649.; Catcher, Edward, 1584?-1624? 1616 (1616) STC 24675.5; ESTC S107356 29,473 96

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article that IESVS Christ only Aduocate Let vs come to the 20. Article These are the wordes Article 20. VVe beleeue that vve are made partakers of that iustice to witt Christian by faith alone Textes cited in the Margent of this Article Man is iustified by faith vvithout the vvorkes of the lavve Rom. 3. Vers 28. Man is not iustified by the vvorkes of the Lavve but only by the faith of IESVS Christ Galat. 2. Vers 16. Before faith came vve vvere kept vnder the lavv shut vp vnto that faith vvhich vvas to be reuealed Therfore the lavve vvas our Pedagogue in Christ that vve might be iustified by faith but vvhen that faith is come novv vve are not vnder a Pedagogue Galat. 3. Vers 23. Examen I reade not one word in all these textes of the workes of Christian faith of which alone and of no others we speake and hold necessary to iustification It is manifest that this pure word alledged speaketh of workes of the Iudaicall religion styled commonly by S. Paul by the name of the Lawe and not of the workes of Christian Religion These passages therfore say onlie that Christian faith without Circumcision and other ceremonies of the Iewes doth iustifie Who denieth this is this all one or as much as to say that Christian faith without the workes which proceed from the said faith in IESVS Christ as is penance doth iustifie Which is that the article teacheth Wherfore this pure worde seconds not that which the article sayeth I am amazed at the impudency or ignorance of the Ministers S. Paul discoursing so largely in fiue whole chapters of that epistle to the Galathians against those which would ioyne with Christian faith Circumcision and other workes of Iudaisme and the very titles of those chapters in the Geneua translation noting the same yet the aduersaries will alledge these against them who hold that Christian workes are necessarie to iustification Open but the epistle and thou wilt detest such abusers the whole epistle sheweth that which I say It shall suffise for proofe heereof to cite the words of the. 5. chapter 2. verse Behold I tell you that if you be circumcised Christ shall proffit you nothing and I testifie againe to euerie man circumciding himself that he is a debter to doe the whole law you are euacuated from Christ that are iustified in the law You are fallen from grace for we by faith exspect the hope of iustice In IESVS Christ neither circumcision auaileth ought uor prepuce but faith working by charity Do not you falsefye doth not S. Paul teach in these laste wordes the contrarie to your article The Apostle opposeth Christian Religion which is called faith in Christ vnto the Iudaicall religion which is named the lawe and teacheth that this later is not necessary to iustification but that the former suffiseth and doth not oppose Christian faith to Christian workes The last texte cited for the foresaid article hath as little energy as the precedents it is this of S. Iohn 3. Vers 15.16 As Moyses exalted the Serpent in the desert so must the sonne of man be exalted that euerie one vvhich beleeueth in him perish not but may haue life euerlasting For so God loued the vvorld that he gaue his only begotten sonne that euery one that beleeueth in him perish not but haue life euerlasting The word only of which only is our variance and which is in your article teaching that faith only iustifieth is not in this text wherefore this vnles you add thereto the word only makes nothing to your purpose and how often doth this speech to beleeue in IESVS Christ signifie to professe the Ghospell and liue according to the same for faith saith S. Iames in the 1. chapter 17. verse If it haue not workes is dead Doth not S. Paul Galat. 5. Vers 6. say that that which iustifieth is faith working by charitie Doth not our Sauiour pronounce this sentence if thou wilt enter into life keepe the commaundements But I am not bound to prooue that faith alone without Christian workes doth not iustifie it is you that are engaged to prooue by the pure worde that that alone doth iustifie alone I say for of that alone doe we dispute In the 11. article it is said that Article 11. Originall sinne after Baptisme is still sinne as it is a fault hovvbeit the condemnation thereof is taken avvay in the children of God vvho of his mercifull goodnes doth not impute it vnto them In proofe of this is alledged one only place in the margent Rom. 7. Vers 7. Texte VVhat shall vve say then is the lavve sinne God forbid but sinne I did not knovv but by the lavve for concupiscence I knevv not vnles the lavv did say thou shalt not couet Examen Here is not in the text one word contained in the article wherefore this Confession promising to say nothing but by the pure word abuseth vs in this point Go on Let vs examine the 36. and 37. articles which speake of the B. Sacrament which since it is obscurely spoken of for more perspicuity I will borrow somewhat out of your Catechisme The 1. clause of the 36. article VVe testifie that the Supper is a testimonie of the vnitie vvhich vve haue vvith IESVS Christ vvhose body you say in your Catechisme in the 53. lesson or Sunday is not included vnder the bread nor his bloud vvithin the chalice that vve must not seeke him in these corruptible elementes For proofe you alleadge this texte Text. The cuppe of benediction vvhich vve do blesse is it not the communion of the bloud of Christ and the bread vvhich vve do breake is it not the communion of the bodie of Christ for being manie vve are one only bread and one only body for vve all partake of one only bread 1. Corinth 10. Vers 16.17 Examen I reade not in this text testimony of the vnity with IESVS Christ the text therfore agrees not with the article But I reade communion of bloud communion of body which is a different matter from testimony of vnity with IESVS Christ and sheweth that the body of IESVS Christ may be founde in these corruptible elements vnder the accidents of bread and wine which this article denieth An other clause of the same article In the supper are Signss which testify that the body and bloud of IESVS Christ serueth no lesse for the soule to eate and drinke then bread and wine doth for the body These Articles say not in expresse termes that the body of IESVS Christ is not in the Eucharist to couer with obscurity theyr errour to disperse this darknes I must borrow some light from theyr Catechisme in the 53. lesson we must not sayth it vnderstand that the body is inclosed within the bread nor the bloud within the chalice but contrariwise to haue the verity of this sacrament we must lift vp our hartes on high to heauen where IESVS Christ is and not seeke him in these corruptible elements For this
refuse this fashion of reforming For why should I not togeather with the Scripture help my self with all other rules to discerne the truth thereby Especially since that the Scripture no where saith that it self alone is the rule of all verity It seemes hard to me to renoūce al Antiquity Coūcels Miracles all the rest before sett downe Neuertheles to ioyne with you in Conference I am content of my owne accord to graunt you the title of Reformer by the pure written word am ready to renounce al those rules specified prouided allwaies that you keepe your promise to witt that you shew me my errours by the pure Scripture 3. There are diuers translations of the Scriptures by which I pray you will you please to reforme me Perchance you intēd by that of Geneua I might iustly refuse to be reformed by that Bible being it is so curtalled in diuers places corrupted and changed Yet to haue your reformation I wil do you this third fauour I am content to open my eyes and follow your Religion if you shew my by the pure word contained in the Geneua version both the truth of the faith you Euangelize allso my errours I haue donne you three great fauours 1. to graunt you the title of a Reformer 2. to be a Reformer by the pure word The third to make this triall by the pure word of the Geneua version But looke you bring me nothing els but the pure word for if in steede of it you shift me of with your interpretations you forsake the Confession of your faith breake the couenants made betweene vs. For I am not so vnaduised to renounce all Antiquity Councells Miracles and the rest for your interpretations and opinions Agreeably to this to your owne promise that which is sett downe in your 5. article I demaund two things at your hands First that you shew me by the pure word the truth of all those articles which you will haue me to beleeue which I am ready to do if I see them in the Bible euen of Geneua Secondly that by the same pure word you shew me my errours Both of these I demand for both of these you professe to do when as you say that the Scripture is the rule of all truth and you acknowledge no other For put the case I should erre in my faith I would be loth to leaue that to follow a worse No wise man I take it though his horse haue but one eye wil make exchāge for another that is blind I desire therfore to see by the pure word the truth of yours Which you cānot refuse to do for you are sent to illuminate vs shew vs the truth To be plaine therfore my first demaund is that you shew me by the pure word the Articles of your Confessiō by which I must be illuminated and made to knowe the right way In the 36. and 37. article you say that we receaue by faith or to vse your ordinary termes by the mouth of faith the body of our Lord. Shew me this in the pure word that the supper is the figure of his body Through all the Geneua Bible I find not so much as mention made of the mouth of faith neither do I finde any talke of a figure in those places where it speakes of the supper Shew me but this I will straight beleeue it and abiure my former Religion This if you do not I must needs hold you as you ar for impostours In the 11. article it is said Originall sinne doth continually remaine after Baptisme in asmuch as it is a fault howbeit the children of God are freed from the cōdemnation due for the same he through his gracious goodnes not imputing it vnto them Shew me this in the pure word of Geneua In the 24. article Iesus Christ is giuen vs for our sole Aduocate The strife between vs is about that worde Sole shew me that in the Geneua Bible In the 20. article We beleeue we are made partakers of that iustice to witt of Christians by faith alone All the controuersie lyeth in that word alone and whether workes donne in the faith of Christ be necessary shew me that worde alone in these places where mention is made of workes donne in the faith of IESVS CHRIST and not in these places where the Iudaicall workes of the law are excluded from Christian iustification for of these only do we dispute I haue turned the Bible for the places cited in the margent for these articles but cannot find any of these articles in the pure word Hauing quitt your hands well in shewing me the truth of that which you desire I should beleeue shew me as well that other thing I demaunde to witt the errours of those articles which I now beleeue The articles of my faith are for example to omitt that point of the B. Sacrement allready spoken of That there is a Purgatory Intercession of Saints Auricular Confession and the like I acknowledge the Sanctity of Pilgrimages of Religious vowes Against which in your 24. article you say Intercession of Saints is an abuse Purgatorrie an illusion and so of religious vowes Pilgrimages and the like Shew me my errour in these points that out of the pure word In your margent I find no text cited which is a shrewd suspiciō that you haue none Perchance you wil aunsweare that it sufficeth for a proofe of errour in these points that they are not found in the holy scripture because nothing must be beleeued but that which is in the scripture My reply to this is to know of you whether this proposition That nothing must be beleeued which is not in the holy scripture be found in the pure word of God or If it be not then you M. Minister in propounding this proposition to be beleeued of me do falsify your owne fayth and breake your promise for you sayd you wold not admitt any other rule of truth but the scripture which is in effect that you will bring forth nothing but that which is in scripture and now you thrust vpon me this proposition which is not there to be found this as a fundamental proposition vpon which ar builded many others but if this proposition be in the pure word shew it but take heede you bring nothing but the pure word When by the pure word you shall shew me the truth of your articles and the falshood of mine as hath been said before I am ready forthwith to acknowledge my errour to embrace your faith But remember I pray you your promise that you would by the pure word shew the truth of your faith and my errours and that I renounced all antiquity Councels Miracles Inhibitions Lawes visions vppon these termes only and no other Looke that in steed of the pure word you do not shift me of with your interpretations or your owne consequences for either that interpretation is in the Scripture or no if it be there bring forth