defend the baptym of chylder papistes that is the chylder of the hoore of Babylon and separate your selfe both in the supper of our Lorde and also in baptyme and in the vnderstandyng of original sin from vs and make your selfe of an other religion it is no meruel that ye handle me euen so here in Englād as your brother catabaptist handled me in Anwerp And whete as men haue such conscience that they care not what they do so that it be done secretly vnto any mā of another religion whether it be yeoperdous for me and expediente for the rulers of this realm to haue such nere hand or no thē I reporte me vnto all wyse godly mē Much vayne bablynge and vnprofitable communication as vnworthy any aunswere do I pasouer and come vnto the place where as ye say that baptym is to my infantes for so do ye call them and vnbeleuers a vayn bare sygne vnfruitfull and vnprofitable except I wyll gyue and assygne vertue vnto the worke wrought Where as ye make all infantes myne because I take in hand tho defende theyr baptym I may a great dele be lesse ashamed of my poore and innocente infantes then ye maye be to defende the doctryne of your sedytions and mourderynge Anabaptistes which destroyed the noble citie of Munster in Wesphali and rose vp agaynst the Magistrates in Amsterdam and wan Swol not far from Dauenter and were about to haue destroyed Gronynge in West Freselande Let the innocentes be myne styll and let the factious catabaptistes be yours Let se who shal be more ashamed in the great daye of them that they defende But seynge ye wyll nedes make the infantes myne I wyll defende them as well as I can for as much as euery man is bounde to defende it that is hys My infantes are not vtterly withoute all faythe as ye meane callynge them vnbeleuers This wyll I proue by your owne maner of alledginge the scripture in the middes of your boke agaynste me What soeuer is not of fayth is synne nothynge that the infant doth or thinketh wheter it sukketh milke or drynketh bere or ale or choweth flesh as ye holde is of fayth for fayth is of heatynge and heatynge cōmethe by that worde of GOD then they the heare not the worde of GOD as chylder do not can do nothyng of fayth wherfore by your own alledging of the scripture the childe doth nothynge but it synneth in doynge what so euer it dooth for lacke of fayth But that they sin not in all thyng and that they ar not without all fayth I proue it thus They please GOD therefore they at not without al fayth for Paule sayeth without fayth it is impossible tho please GOD. That spechelesse chylder haue pleased GOD Iacob Hieremy the Prophete and Iohan the Baptist are wytnesses So ar also the chylder that Christ toke in his armes wytnesses of the loue that Christ bare vnto chylder Marke wytnesseth that Christe toke the chylder in to his armes and blyssed them If that he blyssed thē they pleased hym If they pleased hym they were not without faith ye do therfore the poore innocentes great wronge in callyng them vnbeleuers At the chylder vnbeleeuing Ye say yea then haue they that vnbeleeuinge and want of faythe ether of their first creation or by Adās fall yf that they haue it by their fyrst creation it is not true that God sayd that all thyng whych he had made was verye good Is an vnbeleuyng man verye good Is that good whych can not please God If that chyldren be vnbeleuyng by Adams fall then haue we found agayne orygynall synne which ye with your mayster Pellagius do vtterly deny Ye saye that they are vnbeleuyng and wythout faith but how proue ye that If ye say I se no workes yet in childrē therfor they haue no faith I axe yow whether ye are a beleuer or vnbeleuer when ye are a slepe and at al tymes whē ye do no good workes yf ye do beleue when ye are a slepe and at other tymes when ye do no good workes so maye chyldren haue faith although they be not yet come vnto the tyme of declaryng of fayth by theyr workes Is there any man so folish or so cruel that wyll call a yong gryfte of the fyrste yeres gryftynge fruytles and barrō whē as it can not for lacke of tyme age brynge as yet furth anye fruyte If that we can not call a tree vnfruytefull vntyll the tyme come of bryngynge furth of fruyte so ought ye not to call a chylde vnbeleuyng faithles vntyll he come vnto the time of declaryng his fayth I axe you Estne puer animal rationale an non Whether is a chylde a reasonable liuing thyng or no If ye graunt that he is an vnreasonable creature then ye make a chylde a brute beaste yf that a child be a reasonable creature yet can not for lacke of time and age vse reason so maye a chylde haue fayth and be called faythfull though for lacke of tyme and age it can shewe as yet no good workes whych are the tokens and fruytes of fayth If ye reason that they know not that they haue fayth therefore they haue no fayth I reason wyth you agayn chylder know not that they are redemed wyth Christes bloude shall we saye therfore that chyldren are not redemed with Christes bloud Chyldren know not that the promys of saluatyon belongeth vnto them shall we say therefore that the promys of saluatyō perteyneth not vnto chyldren Is not the heyre of landes heyre before he knowe that he is heyre So maye a chylde haue fayth and yet for lacke of age knowe not that it hath it Because ye alledge the scrypture hereafter generallye and delyuer it from all cyrcumstances ye must suffer me to reason wyth you after the same maner at this time Answer me to this argument Children are not already condēned therfore they do beleue for the scripture sayth he that beleueth not is condemned alredy Therfore ye must ether graūt that chylder do beleue or elles that they are already condemned Chylder also haue the holy ghost Is the holy ghost wythout fayth They haue all thynges that Christ hath for they are Christes he that spared not hys only sonne as Paule sayth but delyuered hym vp for vs and for chylder as well as for old men it is impossyble but that he gaue all thyng vnto chylder wyth Christ how can chyldren be faythlesse whych haue all that Christ hath Was Christ without fayth Now whether your I say or my argumentes are worthy more credence let them that are faithful men iudge indifferently But what yf I graunted you that chyldren had no fayth yet it dyd not folow that the infantes shuld haue no fruyte of theyr baptyme For our infantes are in as good a case as the infantes of the Iewes were in the same age that oure infantes are of But though they hadde bene wythout fayth yet had they receyued theyr cyrcumcysyon
exercyse hys fleshly lust vpon were not your rebaptysing brethern which were slayē in Amsterdā whē they thought to haue murdered the magistrates and gouernores of the cyti reprobate and of a falsly pretended and fayned repentaunce And yet ye saye that baptyme ought only to be geuen vnto suche as vnfeynedly wyll amēd theyr lyues whereby ye make a conclusion that chylder ought not to be baptysed because ye cannot perceyue whether chylder entend vnfaynedly to amēd theyr lyues or no know not by theyr lyuyng whether they be chosen or vnchosen Thys is one of the chefe argumentes wher wyth ye go about to ouer throw the baptysyng of chylder whiche is after suche a maner formed that it taketh as wel away the baptim of old folk as of chylder for if that ye wyll baptyse none but suche as ye know whether they be elected and vnfaynedly repent or no ye shal as well holde al olde folk from baptym as yong chylder for no man can know the harte nether of olde mā nor childe sauyng only God as it is wrytē ij Pararipo vi Tu solus nosti cor filiorum hominum Thou knowest onli the harte of the sonnes of men then may all they that ar baptysed feyn and counterfet repentance amendement of lyfe before the elders which baptise and intend nothyng less as Symon Magus and Iudas Dyd in the Apostelles tymes in our tymes suche swarmes of Anabaptistes of your sect whiche were baptised after the .xiiij. yeare of ther age and afterwarde committed hordom robry and shamefull murder in the aboue rehersed cities and yit was noman able sauing only god to iuge whether they were chosen or vnchosen whether they intēded to amēd theyr lyuyng or no at the tyme of theyr Baptime Ye say that infantes ought not to be baptised because we cā not tel whether they be of the elect chyrche or no and whether they ar fully amynded to amēd theyr lyuing or no. Take yow .iiij. men of .xl. yeares of age to baptise let me take .iiij. infantes of .iiij. dayes olde tell me how that ye know that your iiij men of .xl. yeares ar more elect and chosen then I know that the .iiij. children ar elect chosen seing that the scripture is playn that no man can tel what an other man intēdeth or what is in hys harte Then when as acordyng vnto the sayng of S. Paul .i. Corint ij No man knoweth the thynges whyche perteyn vnto man sauyng the spirit of man whych is in hym no mā can tel whether an oldeman be more electe then a chylde then if olde men ought to be baptised not with standyng that noman knoweth whether they be worthy loue or hatred and be chosen or vnchosen it shal not hyndre but that chyldern may be as wel baptised as olde folke ye say in your next assertiō that Remission of sin is offered to all but al receyue it not ¶ I wyll now try your spirit whether it is stedfast or vnstedfast and wauering or no ye sayd a litle before that Baptym is offered euen to as many as wyll vnfayneoly amend theyr lyues euen as is remission of synnes ¶ In which place ye make baptym and remission of synnes all alyke comō but remission of sinnes is comon to all men both to olde meton chylder and that I proue by your owne sayng whych is that remission of syn is offered to all For it that is offered to all is comō to all therfore by your own sayng it foloweth that baptime is comon to all And if it be comon to all then is it comon vnto chyldrē How doth now youre spirit agre with it self that sayd a litle before that baptim was not comon to al now saith it the cōtrary wherupō it foloweth necessarily that baptim is comon to al. How do these saynges of yours agree together remission of finnes is offered only vnto them that wyll vnfaynedly amende theyr lyues as baptim is offered and remission of synnes is offered to all but all receyue it not In the one place ye offer remission of synne only vnto them theat baptim is to be offered to that is to thē that wil repent and in the other vnto all Is not here a prety argument thys is the spirit whiche ye receiued in the wood wher as ye tolde me that ye learned wtout any doctor your diuinite I gather also of this your sayng where ye saie that remissiō of syn is offered to all that remission of sin is also offred vnto childer and to whom soeuer remissyon of syn perteineth baptime also perteyneth as it may be plainly gathered of youre own wordes aboue rehersed but remission of syn is comon to all therfore is also baytym comon vnto al why shulde not he haue the signe which hath the thing Now is your saing that baptim is not comō vnto al onis cōfuted againe This do I aske you because ye say that remissiō of syn is offered vnto al whether remission of synne is offered vnto any sauyng vnto them that beleue and whether beleese cummeth only of the hearing of goddes worde or no. If that forgyuenes of syns only be to be offered to them that haue faith and saith be only offered vnto them that heare the word how haue the Turkes and the other infideles remission of synnes offered vnto them when as they want the word of God wher of cummeth fayth whiche only as ye graunt the promys of remission of synnes Then muste ye shew in your aunswere how that remission of synnes is offered to the faythles and vnbeleuynge Turkes whych wane the instrument whereby fayth is offred and ingendred This do I only wryte to put you to youre proue ye are so full of youre generall conclusyones if that the church sanctified in the word of Christ by faith only receiue remission of sinnes as ye write here in thys place if it be trew that ye did hold before that childer are faythles vnbeleuing it foloweth that chylder receiue no remission of synnes by your saing is not this to cōdemne all childer or els to say that childer haue no originall syn whether this be holsū doctrine or no let Christes church be iuge As for your argument that ye bring next here after I deny the antecedēt if ye meane of such faith as cā declare it self by good workes for the childer obtein remissiō of synnes by the blood of Christ althouge they haue no such faith as you do require in them your argument is thys Thys I say wher is now Hec dicit dominus the remissiō of synnes is offered to all but all receyue it not the churche sanctisyed by faith in the blood of Christ only receiueth it and vnto thē only baptime belongeth therefore none ought to receiue it but such as haue not only heard the good promises of God but haue also thereby receyued a syngular consolation in their hartes through remission of synne whiche they by fayth haue receyued For yf
hys promis whiche myghâ— comfort them when they cum to age And for thys cause it is lyke that ye wyll haue none baptized vntyll they be of fourtene yeares of age that then your brether poysoned wyth many a damnable synne might be heled by baptyme and by preachyng as thoughe before that tyme that they neded no Physik of GOD our principall Phisician Chylder of one daye haue nede of the Physician Christe or no If they nede none of Christe he dyed not for them If they nede Christe the Physiciane when as they be but one daye olde It is not to erly nor to tymely to cary the chylder by the prayers of the churche vnto Chryste that he may hele them And when as the offerers vp of the chylder trustyng vnto the promys of GOD that the chylder haue granted vnto them remission of theyr originall synne do lay vpon them the sacrameÌ„t of baptiÌ„ do they any otherwise vnto their childer theÌ„ the Iewes sumtyme the people of God did vnto theyr chylder after the coÌ„maundement of God Then we nede not greatly care for your vnlearned and hethenish mocking of Christes holy sacrameÌ„t callyng it in mockage a playster of colde water Who dyd orden this cold water dyd not Christ orden it If ye be a christiaÌ„ and not a LuciaÌ„ why do ye mok it shall that excuse you when ye shall saye that I graÌ„t that it is Christis plaster but that it is to tymely layde to ought Christis sacrament to be mocked lawghed to scorn because a foole layeth it to out of tyme Take hede what ye do for Iuliane the apostata as proud a mocker as you be payed derely for hys mockyng wheÌ„ he cast his blode in to the ayer and sayde vnto Christ uicisti Galilaee thou hast won thow man of Galile If that an Hethen man should haue sayd vnto a priest of mosis law wheÌ„ he circuncised a chylde what nede ye syr surgean to cut thys chyld before he be sik I befoole such surgeanes as leue the chylder worse then they fouÌ„d them thynke ye that GOD would not punishe this prophane mocker ye suerly then thynk you to scape fre whiche would be rekened a christen man and yit mok baptim the ordinaunce of Christe I think no. And where as ye say that the chylder ar worse after their baptim then euer they were before it appereth that ye mene that the sacrament of baptim is an euel thyng for if ye ment that it were not euell why shulde ye say that chylder baptized ar worse after theyr baptim then they were before After thys your Poeticall feyning ye bring in a clerkly coÌ„clusion whiche ye bylde vpon your own coÌ„munication therwith a reson as wytty and wise as the former was and as wel it agreeth with it that goeth before giue eare vnto this new orator For I heare of a poke that is now begynnyng to spryng vp not of a romysh pok but of an other deuelysh pok as euell as it Medice cura te ipsum The deuelysh pok whiche is syn is not healed but thorow faythe Now syr I pray yow tell me by your rhetorik logike how foloweth this saiÌ„g with it that goeth before for me think it foloweth not It is spoken lyke a phisicion that maketh yow to ley a plaster of colde water to the synne of the infantes so tymely but suerly out of dew tyme and other to yearly or to late for they ar worse afterward then euer thâ—y were before For I heare of of a pok that is now begynnyng to spryng vp ce This gear is scarse clerkly couched together and yit ye wil be rekened a great clerke But I wyll pas ouer your art whiche I can not fynde in yow and I wyll try your sentences whether they be any better then your compositiones ar or no. ye say that ye heare of a pok that is now beginniÌ„g to spring vp ye say immediatly afterward that the poke ye meane of is sin That is in begiÌ„ning to spring that was neuer before theÌ„ if â—yn be now beginning to spring as your wordes suppose it to do it is lyke that ye ar of that opinioÌ„ that before this time there was neuer any syn If this do not folow of your sayeÌ„g I am far deceyued appele vnto the iudgement of all meÌ„ which haue but the coÌ„moÌ„ sence whether this foloweth of your saiÌ„g or no Where as ye say medice curate ipsum that is to say PhisiciaÌ„ heale thy selfe ye reken ye haue don a clerkly worck in speakyng so mych latin vnenglisshed and in applying of a prouerbe so properly But how litle it perteyneth vnto thys present purpose euery wise man may easely perceyue As for me although I am a Physician called to hele mennis bodies whiche thyng by the help of my Lorde God I haue oft doâ—… I neuer presumed to be an heler of maÌ„nis soul with my phisik but with Chrstis phisik although it pleaseth sumtimes almighty god to hele diuerse dedly siknes in meÌ„s soules by me suche like and to call them vnto fayth to true repentance and so consequently to the health of the soule yit do we not take our selues to be Physicianes healers of the soules but onely the chefe physicians seruaÌ„tes only giuyners vnto the sik soules suche medicines as our master hath coÌ„maunded vs not beyng so bolde as to deuyse any Physik at all of our own braynes Then to say vnto me PhysiciaÌ„ heale thy selfe is as much to say as thou which art a phisicion of the body go and playe Goddis parte and hele thy own sowle Thys is the counsell not of the spirite of God but of the wood sprete who taught yow yowr diuinite If that ye had bene well aduised ye wolde not haue made your self a coÌ„panioÌ„ with the murderiÌ„g scribes pharises in vsing their churlish cheke agaiÌ„st one of Christis meÌ„bres whiche they threw out agaynst Christe him self But what win you by your chek haue ye proued any thiÌ„g therby nothiÌ„g at al sauiÌ„g that men may know that ye ar wel sene in doggishe eloqueÌ„ce Ye haue sence the beginning of your book vnto this place said more theÌ„ iij times that faith alone taketh awai sinnes in whiche places ye haue erred shamefully if ye mean by only fayth the only work of beleuing For if that ye giue iustificatioÌ„ vnto that work of beleuiÌ„g not meaning the wheÌ„ ye say faith iustifieth the mercy of god promised vnto vs by Christis blood iustifieth vs haue a respect only vnto the dede of beleuiÌ„g ye ar a iusticiari with the pope the old pharises whose prouerbes ye gladly exercise If that ye mean by this sentence faith iustifieth that fayth taketh hold of the mercy of God whych is granted vnto vs by Christes blood then dothe the mercy of God iustifi take syn away fayth doth nothyngellis but taketh hold of the promised offered mercy Then wheÌ„ as the mercy of God