bee iustified That it is most true which S. Paule hath that a man is iustified by faith without workes because no works done before beleeving helpe toward iustification but that in beleeving actually a man is reputed iust before God that if he die immediatly having no time to worke yet he by beleeving is iustified Notwithstanding that if he liue he ought to bring forth good fruit His coÌ„clusion is that S. Paule doth speake of workes going before faith S. Iames speaketh of works following that faith which hath iustified And a right beleefe wil not be without them if it have time to shew it selfe I might heere adde how frequent a thing it is with diverse Doctors of the Church to vse the word of onely faith in speaking of our IustificatioÌ„ but of that hereafter TheÌ„ to shew that neither Luther nor we need feare the Epistle of S. Iames as crossing our other doctrine we say that S. Paule doth speake of acceptatioÌ„ to be iust S. Iames intendeth a declaration that we are iustified the one beateth on that before God where the setled apprehension of faith prevaileth which notwithstaÌ„ding wil not be without his convenient fruit the other mentioneth that before men who know not the hart but must iudge of that which is externall therefore it is rightly said by the Apostle in their persons s 〈◊〉 2. 18. Shew mee thr faith out of thâ—…e owne workes 3 Whom you meane by the of-spring of Luther we caÌ„not telt but if al who refuse those books be termed his of-spring his children shal be a thousand yeeres elder then himselfe for many of the most ancieÌ„t fathers did disclaime the books of Tobias Ecclesiasticus the Machabees for being Canonical if the rule of s Hist Ecol lib 3. 19 Eusebius he good as no wise maÌ„ wil deny it that the Canonical volumes may be distiguished froÌ„ the Apocryphal suppositious by the iudgmeÌ„t of the church by the stile by the matter purpose of the books they had great reasoÌ„ not to acknowledge theÌ„ for the Church vniformly did never admit theÌ„ they are not writteÌ„ in the language of the Iews to whoÌ„ t Rom. 3 2. were coÌ„mitted the Oracles of God therfore if they were part of Gods Oracles before the comming of Christ these Iewes should haue admitted them and retained them which they did not and the matter of them is but meane and ignoble in comparisoÌ„ of the vndoubted Scripture What a doubtful narration is that in u Cap. 6. 17 Tobias that a spirite should smell a perfume when spirits haue no flesh bones by the testimony of u Luc 24. 39 Christ himselfe coÌ„sequeÌ„tly no organes of scÌ„e that the hart liver of a fish should drive away the Devil Which if it were so S. Peter was much overseene when he taught vs how to repulse SathaÌ„ by x 1 Pet. 5 9. resisting him being stedfast in the faith For it had bin an easier way to have said get you the hart liver of such a fish make a perfume with it he dareth not come nigh you And this would wel haue beseemed S. Peter to set men to catch such fish in remeÌ„brance of his owne occupatioÌ„ since himselfe was a fisher But what if yong Toby had met with such a spirit as those were of whom Christ saith y Matth. 17. 21. This kind goeth not out but by fasting and praier The treatise called Ecclesiasticus if for any cause it should come into the Canon it must be for Salomons sake whom many would haue to bee the authour of it But the Preface it selfe remaineth confessing it to be the worke of Iesus Sirachs sonne of another Iesus his grande-father and the booke meÌ„tioneth z Cap 48. 46. Elias Ezechias Iosias Ieremy diverse other who lived hundreds of yeeres after Salomon And howe questionable a narration is that in it that a Cap 46. 20 Samuel should tell of Saules death after his owne burial which as diverse learned men thinke is a report to be beleeved in NecromaÌ„cy rather theÌ„ in Divinity For if the souls of the righteous being departed be in the haÌ„d of God which our Romanists must coÌ„fesse out of the booke of b Cap 3. 1 Wisdome we do beleeue out of the saying of David c Psal 31. 5. Into thine haÌ„d I coÌ„mend my spirit if those who die in the Lord d Apoc 14 13 do rest froÌ„ their labors how shal we suppose that the soule of such an excelleÌ„t Prophet as Samuel was might be at the coÌ„mand of so base vile a witch to be fetched froÌ„ heaven at her pleasure Or what rest shal other faithfull men and women bee imagined to haue after this life if Necromancers VVitches and Coniurers haue such power over them Albeit therefore that some of the auncient speaking according to the e 1. Sam 2â—… 15 letter of the texte doe name him who appeared Samuel because hee came vp in the likenesse of Samuel as f Epistol 80. Basile when hee saith that the VVitch raised Samuel from the deade and some other not sifting the pointe doe affirme it to bee the soule of Samuel himselfe as g Antiquit. 6. 15 Iosephus the lewe and h Dialog 〈◊〉 Tryphon Iustinus Martyr yet other more exactly looking into it tell vs otherwise as S. Austen when he calleth that which appeered i De doctr Christ lib. 24 23. the image of Samuel and especially Basile who elsewhere more advisedly pronounceth that k Basil in 〈◊〉 cap 8. they were Devils which hissing with their voice did transforme themselues into the habite and person of Samuel Yea l Chron l 1 Genebrard himselfe maketh a great doubt whither it were Samuel or no and citeth Tertullian and diverse other of the Auncients resolving the contrary As for the bookes of Machabees there be many thinges in them that no man can maintaine therfore no part of them is so much as reade in our Church as that m 1. Mach. 1. 7 AlexaÌ„der parted his kingdome among his servants while he was alive that the n Cap 8 7. Romanes tooke the greate Antiochus aliue that they tooke from him o Cap. 8. 8. India and Media and Lydia and gaue them to King Eumenes that they had a Senate consisting of p Vers. 15. three hundred and twenty men who consulted daily that they yeerely committed their q Vers. 16. government to one man whom all obeied and that there was no hatred or envy amongst them Also it wil never bee made hang togither that Iudas should be aliue in the r 2 Math 1. 10. hundred foâ—…escore eight yeere and yet he should be slaine in the s 1 Mac 9. 3. hundred fifty and two yeere Neither that Antiochus should s 1 Mac. 6. 8 die in his bed for griefe and sorrow and in another place should be
and fight vnder his banner And something they must returne for their hungrie pensions needy mainetenaunce which they receive from his Holinesse and the King Catholike besides the containing of their favourites heere in their former courses by refreshing their wittes with novelties and the solacing of their owne discontentments vvhich doe the lesse gaule and gripe their vnquie◅ hartes while their heades are busied with inventing and their handes with writing that which whether it be true or false tending to edification or destruction they little care or consider 2 But of the two it is more to be marveiled at that after so long and plentifull a flowing forth of the water of life there should yet be anie of our countri-men and women remaining at home who will tast of puddle water yea bee as greedie to drinke thereof as the maisters of the broken cisternes can bee ready to propose it vnto them That come there forth any pamphlet of what small worth soever yet some or other will either for their ignorance admire it or for their vnsetlednes entertaine it or for their perversenes embrace it as if it were some divine Oracle descended from aboue But this is the instabilitie of their iudgment who are once c Gal. 3. 1. bewitched like the foolish Galathians that although Christ hath beene so lively testified vnto them as if hee had beene crucified before their eies yet if newe teachers come one after another they will earnestly attend listen vnto thē The world is not so altered but that in their passage to d Num. 11. 4. Canaan some Israelites wil loath that Māna which is c Ps. 78. 25. the bread of Angels long to be againe in Aegypt If there were never philosopher so absurde to invent any fond opinion but there were some auditours as absurde to maintaine and follow the same who can conceive but that vntill the destructiō of that whore the famous strumpet with the f Apoc. 17. 2 cup of whose fornication many of the Kings and much of the people of the earth have bin dronken shoulde stil have some inamored on her As there ever will be deceivers so there shall be some which will be deceived Satan cannot give over his g Iob. 2. 2. compassing the earth his skoutes messengers vvill entend his service Some children of Idolaters to the worlds end shall vnto the h Exo. 20. 5. third and fourth generation participate of their parents curse God with-drawing his grace from them and not opening their eies the peevish will decline stumbling at some rocke of offence weake women to shew themselves to be Eves daughters will rather i Gen. 3. 1. chuse to harken vnto the serpent then to God almighty young ones for want of iudgment and discretion wil credulously listen to a Sirens Song Thus it hath bin and thus it wil be Not withstanding the Magistrate by his charge the Minister by his duty indeede every Christian in his place is both for pieties and charities sake to endevour to plucke as many as he can k Iud. 23. out of the fire as Saint Iude speaketh 3 Yet this being graunted that such leaders and such followers there be and will be it may neverthelesse be much marveiled at that the wisedome of Poperie is so blinded and the ability of English fugitives is growne to so low an ebbe in the Seminaries that to make good their party they haue no better means to vse but such base ones as in this booke or libel are presented to the world Especiallie since this treatise is pretended to come from a Doctor of Divinitie and one taking degree in one of those Vniversities which by themselves bee l See Reason 15. and Bristow Motive 31. reported to bee so famous as that almost he who may but smell the smoake of them or breath but a while on the ayre there shal be inspired with knowledge have more learning Metaphysically infused into him thē among vs is to bee attained to in many yeares And can a man of the highest degree in schoole there for the maintenance of his cause bring no better then such worne broken stuffe as heere is cōgested and heaped togither Yet worship betide him who not long before the birth of this tract put out the m Certaine Articles or forcible Reasons 1600. Pamphlet that the Protestants haue no faith nor religion that the learned Protestantes are Insidels that the Protestants are bound in conscience to avoide all good workes that the Protestants teach that God is worse thē the Devill and such other worthy conclusions to which n D. Barlow D. Buckley two learned men haue made reply For although he had but little honestie in propounding such prodigious and portentuous monsters yet he had more wit since that caried some ◅ūble with it albeit in such fort as that those who respected it were more afraide then hurt That which comming vnawares seemed to the improvident at the first to be some clap of thunder was at the last discerned not to be so much as the striking vp of a drumme It was no otherwise but a fewe stones shaken togither in an empty barrell Yet the wile of the man is to be commended that he could set som good words on it as the Montibank◅ doth vse who after open protestation that he hath somthing to sel of admirable vertue of incōparable value of inestimable benefite which the Graunde Seigneour of the Turks the Great Duke of Muscovy the Emperor of Germany wil accept of and desire yea earnestly call for which to have at their neede Lords and Ladies will thinke themselves most happie doth at the length after all this flourish produce some lippe-salve or other such toy as mooveth laughter in some and serious indignation in other who have not beene acquainted with the Mountibankes custome 4 But this gallant with whom I haue to deale and who speaketh as hereafter you shall heare imagining that all the men in England are as blind as he would have them to be hath sent vs a fresh garment made of other mens olde clothes which the most of vnderstanding have seene and knowne to bee both worne bare and torne like the Ruines of Time And hee hath little altered the verie fashion of it saving peradventure to sette the right sleeve where the left formerly was and something now before which erst stood behinde Indeed some peeces he hath shrunk drawne thē in narrower to make them seeme the thicker some other few for in sooth they are but few he hath enlarged with a skirt or hem of new cloath and yet willing to buy as little stuffe as possibly he might in some places he hath sewed two or three ragges togither so to make a pretty peece The truth is that now almost o An. 1574. thirty yeeres since a coūtry-man of ours whom D. Fulke not vnfitly called Bl◅ring Bristow did with much bouldnesse
were there is not one more pernicious to the Church of God then that of the Poore men of Lyons for three causes First because it is of longer continuance Some say that it hath endured from the time of Sylvester Other say that from the time of the Apostles The second is because it is more generall For there is almost no land in which this sect doth not creepe The thirde that whereas all other by the immâ—…ity of their Blasphemies against God do make men abhorte them this of the Lyonists having a great shew of godlinesse because they doe liue iustly before men and do beleeue all things well of God and all the Articles which are contained in the Creede only the Church of Rome they doe blaspheame and hate which the multitude is easie to beleeue and as Sampsoni Foxes had their faces severall waies but their tayles tyed one to the other so heretikes are diverse in sects among themselves but in the impugning of the Church they are vnited There can hardly be found a more honorable testimony out of the mouth or penne of a bitter and bloudy adversary as he was who wrote this and much more concerning those good servountes of God 30 VVe shall not neede to ascende any higher since hee giveth witnesse of the antiquity of their profession long before his â—…lme VVhich otherwise to make plaine is as easie as to deliver that which hitherto I have spoken And it is not to bee conceived that Petrus VValdâ—… of whom the VValdenses tooke their name at Lions had his doctrine from no body but that of himselfe he attained to his owne knowledge since he was not deeply learned c Matth. Parâ—… in Gul. Conquestore Berengarius indeede vvas onely called in question for denying of Transubstantiation in the Sacrament but it may well bee thought that in some thing else hee dissented from the Church of Rome And albeit by his ovvne vveakenesse and the importunitie of the Clergie hee yeelded once or tvvise to recant and abiure the true doctrine vvhich hee helde yet hee had many d CoÌ„tinuat histor de gestis Anglorum lib. 3. 27. scholers vvho by his example vvould not bee driven from the right Beleefe which they had apprehended These scholers were in e Malmisbur lib 3. France in great numbers and in diverse other Landes And Genebrard cannot conceale it but that about the f Chronogr lib. 4. yeere of our LORD 1088. Basilius the Monke did set on foote againe the errour of Berengarius And might not the doctrine of both these bee sucked from Bertram who wrote so learnedly and so directlie out of the Scriptures and Fathers against the Reall-presence and Transubstantiation that the Index g In Bertramo Expurgatorius cannot tell vvhat to make of him but the Bishoppe of h Resp. ad Dan. Tilen fol. 258. Eureux vnder the name of Henrie Connestable tearmeth him the greate fore-runner of all the Sacramentaries and i La saincte Messe declar lib. 2. 4 Richâ—…e the Iesuit disclaimeth him plainelie as a Sacramentarie Heretike Then Calvin and Zuinglius vvere not the first vvho gaine-saide Transubstantiation Before our ascending thus highe vvee might tell you of Saint Bernard vvhome although it is likelie at the first dashe you will chalendge as your ovvne yet vvhen you have vvell advised on him you may let him goe againe For albeit hee had his errours vvhich hee sucked from the age vvherein hee lived and vvee may not in all thinges subscribe to his iudgement but say of him as commonlie it is spoken Bernardiâ—… non vidit omnia yet vvee finde in him sâ—…rem partem a liberall profession of manie good and sound pointes agreeable to the Gospell He for a fashion acknowledgeth maine matters to bee in the Pope and giveth him k De considerat ad Eugen. lib. 2. 8. greater titles then any Papist can iustifie but it is by such infinuation to winne him the more attention froÌ„ Eugenius and then having procured liberty or rather taken it to himselfe hee schooleth and lessoneth the Pope plainely shewing that hee liked not of their ordinarie courses neither did hee repute him to have that preheminence or prerogative which his Parasites did allowe him But touching the matter l Serm. 61. in Cantiâ—… of merit by good workes for m Epist. 190. Iustification by faith alone in Christ for n De gratia libero arbitrio Free-will for o Serm. 3. de 7. misericordijs Certaine assurance of salvation in the death and by the strength of our Saviour and for p Serm. in Concil Rhemens dislikeing then the vile life of the Clergy how cleâ—…re how pregnant how copious is hee These thinges wee teach togither with him and notwithstanding his other slippes wee doubt not but his soule doth rest with the Lord God pardoning vnto him his errours and ignorances which hee being caried vvith the streame of that time did never discusse but tooke them as they were delivered to him without scanning or examining And to this good hope we are firmely induced by that saying of Saint Paule q 1. Cor 3. 11. Other foundation can no man laye then that vvhich iâ—…aide vvhich is Iesus Christ And if anie man builde on this foundation golde silver precious stones timber hay or stubble everie mans worke shall bee made manifest for the day shall declare it because it shall bee reveiled by the fire and the fire shall trie everie mans vvorke of vvhat sorte it is If any mans vvorke that hee hath builte vpon abide hee shall receive vvages If any mans vvorke burne hee shall lose but hee shall bee safe himselfe Hee helde the foundation of Iustification by onely faith in Christ and that our best deedes are but r De gratia liber arbitr via regni non cause regnandâ—… the vvay to the kingdome not the cause of raigning and for that cause we doubt not but his soule is safe though his hay and stubble of praying vnto Saints and other such stuffe as cannot endure the fire of the holy Ghosts triall do burne and consume And this is our iudgment touching many other both before and after the time of Saint Bernard that holding Christâ—…e foundation aright and groning vnder the heavy but then of humane Traditions Satisfactions and other Popish trash they by a generall repentance from their errours and lâ—…pses knowne and vnknowne and by an assured faith in their Saviour did finde favour with the Lord. Such as these vvere vvee holde to bee Gods good servants to be of the number of the Elect and propter saâ—…rem 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 for their founder and better parte to bee of that Church vvhereof vvee are to bee members of that bodye vvhereof by the grace of Christ vvee are a portion 31 And in this respect our setled and resolved iudgement is that when it is asked where our Church in former ages was we may besides that which formerly hath beene
in your Popes courte are scant knowne among vs and here lesser sortes of luxury wantonnesse lie subiect to both Ecclesiastical and temporall punishment The filthy lubricity of many Papistes is growne to a Proverbe long since amongst vs and yet they would perswade men that they liue vnder the crosse in persecution Yea what may be supposed is done at liberty whereof I leaue the testification to a marginall note of M. u Quodli 2 Articul 2 Watsons in his Quodlibets vvhen your Priestes and Prisoners restrained at Wisbich are publikely in print questioned one by another as about other disorders so namely for x Manifest ca. 1. whoredome But of this more largely hereafter For gluttony who ever exceeded your Pseudo-Catholikes on their fish daies and double feasts or your monkes the belly-gods of the world the knights of Bacchus and Ceres the sty-fed swine of Europe This by-word was not for naught O monachi vestri stomachi sunt amphora Bacchi Vos estis Deus est testis turpissima pestis As for ambition all the earth cannot put downe the Cardinals of Rome and the inferiour Prelates vnder them VVhat tumultes were there wont to be about every Bishopricke or rich Abbay two or three striving for it and running or sending to Rome to see whither could out-bribe other No man is more plentiful in this argument then y In Hen 3 Mathew Paris What endlesse ambition is there and hath there beene in aspiring to the Papacy Kings Princes being set one against another for Popes causes and in the time of Antipapes a great part of Christendome beeing vp in armes some on the one side some on another It is not forgotten howe in Englande the Arch-bishops of Canterbury and Yorke haue striven for priority their crosses which rather should haue taught them humility iutting each with other and the bearers of them being ready to iustle each other from the wal in the presence of the Cleargy and Nobilitie of the Realme Nay if there were nothing else to shevve the ambition of the Romanists yet let vs not novve bee blinde at home where in z Quodl 2 7 printed bookes there hath beene question made betweene the Iesuites and secular Priestes concerning precedence in going and betweene Priestes and other of their religion for places at table so vnfitly and immodestly as woulde rather beseeme vaine and weake-witted women then men who professe themselues to bee of learning and gravitye besides the greatest tye of their Ecclesiasticall function But every Papist doth well to imitate the Pope his holy Father who setteth himselfe aboue all Kings and Emperours and therefore they may doe sutably to goe before as many as they can not in a Rom. 12 10 giving but in taking honor Yet Christ the best Master hath taught another lesson b Mat 11 29 Take my yoke on you and learne of me that I am humble and meeke Lastly for covetousnesse who ever on earth exceeded the Romish Synagoge vvho by the manours and large possessions given them had almost devoured whole Europe and by their Buls sent abroad as also by their dispensations at home did shew themselues the most cunning Alchimistes in the worlde to turne in many places a little leade into a great deale of golde which was fitly c Premier Recucil fol 767. likened to the chaunge of Diomedes and Glaucus in Homere Adde to this the infinite riches vvhich they had by continuall Legacies Vowes Offrings and Giftes whereof monuments may yet bee seene in Rome Paris Colein and other places in their crosses Images shrines and many other things of pure massie gold vvith plenty of precious stones and as once might haue appeared in the treasures belonging to Thomas Becket at Cāterbury which as d Peregrin Relig. ergo Erasmus who saw them describeth them did far surpasse the riches of many a king To contract this matter the story is vvell known how King e Io Fox in Richard 1. Richard the first bestowed the three daughters in mariage whom one Fulco put him in minde of I meane those dangerous daughters Pride Covetousnesse and Luxurie He placed Pride with the Templars Avarice with the Cistertian Monkes and Luxurye with the pompous Prelates of the Church Such good opinion vvas in those dayes to bee carryed concerning the mortified persons of the Romishe Cleargye 17 In this place I finde that you exceede your selfe if possibly that might be You set vp here to your selfe a ladder of vntruths whereon you may by every rounde or steppe come higher and higher to the father of lyes VVe are given to lust gluttony ambition covetousnesse that is your lowest step Then we teach doctrine which must necessaryly bring soorth such fruites After this wee contemne Saint Basile Saint Chrysostome Saint Hierome Saint Augustine Then to the ende that you maye beare the garlande from all your fellowes generallye the doctrine of the aunient Fathers is cleane contrarie to the doctrine of Protestantes f ◅ul secūdo de Ova◅ore Hanniball saw many doting olde men but never such a one as Phormio But I turne backe vnto you g Staphyl in Apolog. You haue long muttered that we teach a doctrin of liberty and we set open the gate to all profanenes Notwithstanding this is a slander of your own invētion neither are you able to name one learned and approved Protestāt who ever in his preaching or writīg could iustly be charged with any such matter Only your spleene is against that point of faith in Christ which while you labor to oppugne you do wrong to vs but more to God to his Son our Saviour the power of whose redēption you extenuat at your pleasure to set vp your own merites Whereas wee doe teach that the same faith when occasion is offred doth h Galat 5. 6 work by loue is seene in his fruits can no more be without a Christian cōversatiō thē fire without heat or water without moisture This we hold whereas cōtrarywise I appeale to the cōscience of your selfe as also to the cōscience of every indifferently minded man whither Popery be not the open gap to a gulfe of al vngodlines when the absolution of a Preest shal be said to free a man frō hel the Indulgēce of a Pope the same person frō Purgatory the pardon of such a one as cannot forgiue his own sinnes for the i Rhemens Thess. 2 4 Pope himselfe confesseth to another Priest and is absolved by him shall cleere a man from poysoning murthering whoring all vncleannes whē satisfactiōs to God-ward may be wrought made for mēs trāsgressions The infectiō of this the like leprosies maketh Papists audacious to do any thing then let thē goe barefoote about the Ascensiō weeke or whip thēselves on good-Friday let thē go to Rome at a lubiley or on Pilgrimage at other times but especially let thē come to cōfessiō have absolutiō they are as cleane from
the brother of Gregory Nazianzen hath little better opinion of him when hee first termeth him f Diolog 3 a vaine trifler but afterward impious and an idle talker Breefely the famous sentence of g Contr. Haeres cap 23. 24 Vincentius Lytinensis concerning him Tertullian biteth deepe as the Reader may see if hee please to looke into that Authour 25 I come now to some other of these worthy men but yet still men and therfore may trippe in their pathes Cyprian was a good Bishoppe and a Martyr for the truth of CHRIST yet h Concil Carthag in CypriaÌ„â—… Euseb Eccle Hist lib 7â—…3 hee and diverse Africane Bishoppes swarved from the truth in the question of rebaptizing those vvho vvere baptized by Heretikes Of him Saint Augustine vvriteth thus i Lib 1 de Baptism 〈◊〉 contra Donatistas UUhereas that holy man Cyprian thinking otherwise of Baptisme then the matter vvas which afterward vvas handled and by most diligent consideration established did continue in the Catholike Unity it vvas both recompenced by the plentifulnesse of his charitie and vvas purged by be cutting booke of his suffering VVhat a straunge imagination was that of k Lib 10 de Trinitat Hilary when hee supposed that all the hurtes and vvoundes did no more touch or affect Christ on the Crosse or else-where theÌ„ blows do the aire or the water or prickiÌ„g the fire He thought that there was a violeÌ„ce offered on the adversaries parte but no smart or paine of Christs part This strange supposal doth l Part 3 quaest 15 art 5 Thomas Aquinas labour to excuse in Hilary but the blemishe is so plaine as that by no meanes it can bee covered VVhat Lactantius thought of the holy Ghost I had leifer sette downe in Hieromes vvoordes then in mine owne m Epist 65â—… Lactantius in his bookes but especiallye in his Epistles ad Demetrianum doth altogether denye the substance of the holye Ghost and by a levvishe errour doth saye that it is either referred to the Father or to the Sonne and that the sanctification of either person is intended vnder the name of it that is the holye Ghost And had not Hierome himselfe those thinges in him vvhich cannot bee defended As his n Contr. lovinian immoderate preferring of single life before mariage and his o Aug Epist. 19 pertinacious advouching that Saint Peter did not deserve to bee reprehended by Saint Paule for p Gal 2 12 halting vvith the Iewes Chrysostome besides his too forward testimonies for free-will which Papistes themselves dislike is of minde q Hom 3 in Epist ad Philip. Hom 11. in 1. ad Cor. teacheth it that although men dye in sinne be condemned and in hell yet almes and ostrings other helpes of praiers done by them who are alive may ease them and diminishe some measure of their tormentes Neither doth Saint Augustine want his imperfections as wheÌ„ he determineth that all children dying without r Epist 28. Baptisme go to the flames of hell which the Romanistes nowe wil not admit And wheÌ„ he liketh their iudgment who thought that vpon hazard of their salvation the s Epist. 106. 107. Eucharist was to be administred to Infantes Many more such examples might be added of vndoubted errours in these learned meÌ„ wherin I trust no Papist is so absurde as to prescribe vnto vs that we should ioyne with them least of good Christians we should become lovers of errours and in some things embracers of heresyes Besides these vnquestionable over-sightes it falleth out ofte that the Fathers do some of them differ nay are contrary or coÌ„tradictory in iudgment some to other and some to themselves What shal we doe in this case or whom shal we follow if the bare authority of these writers be of it selfe so stronge as they would make it I will not instaunce in those hereticall or erroneous opinions before named where some of them affirme and some Orthodoxely deny and a Christian man without the Scripture can give no decision vvhether is in the right Cull out that onely for example sake vvhere Hierome and Augustine doe so differ about Saint Peter and Saint Paule vvhether of them did amisse hovve should we know but by the Apostles writing But to whether of them in this contradictorie case shulde vvee give credite if they vvere considered in themselves Neither vvill I instaunce matters of meane respecte as hovve Saint s Quaest. 123 sup Exod qu. 81. sup Levitie Austen crosseth himselfe in this question whither the Cydaris vvere an attire for the heade or no Or vvhether Plato spake personally vvith the Prophet Ieremie in Aegypte and learned of him many thinges or no to the which being the iudgement of Ambrose in one t De doctr Christ lib 2 28 place hee assenteth but in u De civit Dei l. 8 11 another hee speaketh against it But I rather referre men to their differences about the Canonicall Scripture vvhich i Responsad Ration 8. before I have shewed and vvhich is a matter of greate momente Or to those thinges which Saint Augustine himselfe u In libr Retract retracted in his owne vvorkes Or to those different iudgementes in capitall causes vvhich Bellarmine citeth in infinite places and Sixtus x In Bibliothe casaÌ„cta Senensis in verie many Or to such like as that of Gregory where one vvhile hee saith that Cornelius by those y Homil 9 in Ezechi vvorkes vvhich vvent before his faith did merite that hee afterward might haue faith and another z Homil 19. while hee expressely denyeth that and saith that by faith hee came to his workes Now if there bee such doubtes as these in the Fathers or other like and we cannot be resolved out of these Doctours or if question be of the verity of their doctrine whither must we haue recourse The Papistes will say to the Church of Rome that is to theÌ„selves but the Fathers wil tell vs to the word of God as forth-with I shal shewe which every way discovereth the base weakenesse of the vnCatholike Church since the Doctors are not the touch-stone of truth but are themselves to be tried by some thing else they are not selfe sufficient but all their words are to be weighed in the ballaunce of the Sanctuarie where if they beare waight they are to be accepted if they be found too light they are to bee reiected Our ground then and foundation is not in these men although never so worthy men but the booke of God must make the finall and irrefragable decision 26 For the better establishing of this let vs heare the Fathers themselves speake I put Saint Augustine in the foremost ranke as one vvho had most occasion to deale in this argument In the controversie betweene him Hierome he is a Epist. 19 pressed with the authority of other writers Hee answereth I doe confesse vnto your charity I have learned to give this