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A18620 The state of the now-Romane Church Discussed by way of vindication of the Right Reuerend Father in God, the Lord Bishop of Exceter, from the weake cauills of Henry Burton. By H.C. Cholmley, Hugh, ca. 1574-1641. 1629 (1629) STC 5144; ESTC S107813 40,972 128

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to which repentance is vtterly denyed Else what shall wee say of S. Peter who both denyed and cursed the knowledge of Christ in himselfe Secondly if this be true as it is then may saluation be found and hoped for notwithstanding that de●iall cursing and approbation Thirdly it must be remembred that our question is of the whole body of the Church that i● neither of the popular part onely nor of the representatiue onely but of both together if then the one part onely shall doe as he saith and not the whole body who can say that there is no saluation to bee found therein or that it is vtterly falne away from Christ. So much for the Proposition In the next place I say the Assumption is euidently false if not more then slanderous For first the Church of Rome whether partially or wholly vnderstood neuer denyed neuer accursed sauing and iustifying Faith nor euer allowed a gracelesse faith onely which cannot saue c. Looke vpon all the Canons of the Councell of Trent and see whether any such thing bee to bee found therein or gathered therefrom doth it not distinguish betweene a living and a dead faith And doth it not say that the liuing Faith only iustifieth and not the dead what is it then that it denyeth and accurseth It is this first the forme and manner of Iustification by Faith when it is said to iustifie as the very forme of Iustification and not as a meere disposition thereto Secondly this assertion that a dead faith separate from grace is not a true faith though it cannot iustifie this is that which the Counsell denyeth and accurseth in this case and no more yet you say boldly if not impudently pag. 25. If any dare deny this hee will but bewray his shamelesse ignorance in this point In what point M. Burton That the Councell of Trent admitteth of no other faith then that which the Deuils and damned in hell haue O mouth O forehead Haue they a liuing Faith which is fruitfull in good workes Such a Faith as S. ●ames commendeth And doth not the Councell admit of this Faith yea of this onely for Iustification Reade the latter part of the seuenth Chapter of the sixt Session and bee ashamed Secondly say the Counsell had done so indeed Doth the whole Church of Rome doe it Doth the popular part therof doe it By your owne words page 25. they denie it Yea but they beleeue as the Church beleeues True but with a secret condition If the Church beleeue well and in that onely wherein it beleeueth aright Being deceiued in nothing but that they trust the Church too much for if they could be perswaded shee beleeueth amisse in any thing therein they would not beleeue as she doth But you will proue that Romes iustifying faith is different in kinde from the true sauing Faith of Christ. How Can you tell Marry thus That faith which Christ commendeth for the onely true sauing faith doth so iustifie a man that hee shall neuer come into condemnation but passe from death vnto life But the onely faith which the Church of Rome alloweth doth not so Ergo Aduertisement pag. 91. I answere A Papist or Arminian would denie the Proposition but I grant it and deny the Assumption for let the Church of Rome confesse what she will in her owne wrong I say that that faith which the Church of Rome onely alloweth for iustification viz a liuing faith fruitfull in good workes doth so saue and iustifie a man that hee cannot goe with it into condemnation and dare you say the contrary This is his first Argument The second is this That Church which cleaueth to Antichrist as her head whence she receiueth all her spirituall life is no true Church nor hath any saluation to be found or hoped for in her But the Church of Rome doth so Ergo. Aduertisement pag. 91. 92. I denie the Assumption Not for that I denie the Pope to be Antichrist or for that I would support the church of Rome in any of her abominations but first because the church of Rome doth not acknowledge the Pope to be Antichrist and so cleaueth not to him as her head in that name Secondly because although some Popes haue antichristianly said that all spirituall grace and life is deriued from the Pope and that some of their Parasites haue flatteringly acknowledged it yet neither the representatiue church of Rome by it selfe nor the popular by it selfe much lesse the whole and entire body did euer yeeld vnto it but haue from time to time opposed themselues against it especially if the question be of an absolute foueraigne and supreme head and not of a subordinate and ministeriall head as you propound it Thirdly because in these spiritual things there is such a coniunction of good and euill in this life that though the one cannot be separated from the other yet the one is not confounded with the other so as each of them receiues its life seuerally from its owne head and not from the head of the other As it is in the regenerate man in whom the flesh and the spirit are alwaies companions in this life yet so as the flesh receiueth nothing from the holy Ghost nor the spirit from Adams transgression And so is it in the case wee haue in hand for in the church of Rome there is an inseparable coniunction of Babylon and the people of God yet so as Babylon receiues no grace from Christ nor the people of GOD apostafie from the Pope for being members of both in diuers respects they haue grace from the one and apostasie from the other which in them are indeed nothing but flesh and spirit And so much for his second Argument The third pag. 34. hereof is thus framed A true visible Church hath the true markes of a true visible Church But the Church of Rome hath not those true markes Ergo. The Assumption whereof being to be denyed hee proueth it partly from the doctrine of the Church of England and partly from Bellarmine the mouth of the Church of Rome For the Church of England the Homily for Whitsunday saith The true Church of Christ hath alwayes three notes or marks whereby it is knowne Pure and sound doctrine c. Now if you would compare this with the Church of Rome c. To which I answer That these words must receiue a fauourable construction or else they make as much against him as against vs and with such construction they make more for vs then for him And what is this construction First they must bee vnderstood of the accidentall truth of the Church in regard of soundnesse as the words doe expresly import and not of essentiall truth in regard of Gods Couenant Secondly they must bee vnderstood euen of soundnesse comparatiuely and not simply that is in regard of the Primitiue Church and not otherwise Else hee must grant that the Church of Rome hath not beene a true visible Church these nine hundred yeares