any other Papist Reply Reply In your twelfth Sect you make us teach that lawful Magistrats may be deposed by the Pope and that we canonize such Where citing Rom. 13. and 1. Pet. 2. you sight with your own shaddow and make up tenets contrar to Scripture which Catholick detest and abhorre But this is proper to Heresie and particularly yours to cause rebellin from lawful Princes and Magistrats as it did every where even in its first beginning witness the revolting of the Princes of Germany against the Emperour The bloody warre of the subjects in France 20. years against their King Holland against Spain to this day the Suitzers amongst themselves SCOTLAND first against Queen Mary and then our late gracious King Nevertheless Ministers are so bold as to speak this who can neither be subject to Kings Magistrats nor Bishops if they oppose their whimsyes in the least Every one of them taking greater power to himself then Catholicks gives to St. Peter Duply Any one may here perceive a Prote ∣ stants Answer studied shift by way of recrimination Because ye date not declare your selves herein And do you indeed detest the Doctrine of the whole Canonists the whole Jesuits that the Pope may depose a lawful King If it be so I am glade you renounce this point of Poperie But because you say I fight with my own shaddow herein to shew how ignorant and impudent you are in this denyal Let any read either the bull of Gregory the seventh against Henry the fourth the Emperor or of Sixtus the 5 against Henry the third King of France or of Pius the fifth against Elizabeth Queen of England and there ye will find this tennor Nos in supremo justitia throne collocati supremam in omnes Reges Principes Terrae universae cunctosque populos gentes Nationes non humana sed divina institutione obtinentes nobis traditam potestatem declaramus praecipimus jubemâ—s c. Viz. That none of their subjects should owne oâ— acknowledge them For your better information in this particular know that the power of the Pope in this particular is one way explained by the Canonists and another way by the Jesuits For the Canonists say that the Pope hath jura omnia caelestis terrestris imperii sibi à Deo concessa The Jesuits that Pontifex ut Pontifex non habet directe ullum temporalem potestatâ—m sed solum spiritualem tamen indirecte ratione spiritualis habet potestatem quandam eaâ—â—que summam disponendi de temporalibus rebus omnium Christianorum See more of this in Dr. Barclay de potestate Papae in Principes Christianos They hold it beyond doubt that in ordine ad spiritualia which is a broad charter the Pope may depose any King and loose their subjects from all allegiance to him cum subest causa rationalis †Anno 1654. When it was Printed at Naples by authority that the Pope should not exercise jurisdiction civil in the territories of Spain without the Kings leave this was condemned at Rome by Innocent the tenth Secondly They hold that Bishops may omnem moverâ— lapâ—dem and that is a broad word ne degant sub Haeretico Principe Baron anno 438. Sect. 89. Thirdly When the knowledge of the fault is evident Subjects may lawfully if they have sufficient strength exeem themselves from subjection to their Prince Baniâ—s on Thomas quastion 12. and that ante judicis sententiam declaratoriam Lastly Privat persons may kill an Heretical King after sentence is given against him Suarez defens fidei Cathol lib. 6. cap. 4. only their tenderness appeareth in this that the King be not constrained wittingly or willinglie to be the cause of his own death the sense is thiâ— if you can poyson him by his gloves garment or saddle you may do it But by meat or drink you may not for then he taketh his own poyson So John Mariana de Reg. instit lib. 1. cap. 7. Is it not then true that by principles of doctrine no Papist adhering to the Pope can be a loyal subject to the King As for our Reformations ye look on all such with an evil eye But our doctrine in the reformed Church concerning the Magistrat is such that no Christians on earth give him more then we do Witness out Confession of Faith to which we will adhere while we live what ever the scripture and pure antiquitie giveth to Kings that we willingly tender for conscience sake All sound Protestants do abhorre and detest the murther of our late Soveraign Lord the King and we in this Nation did protest and declare against it for which our Commissioners were committed close prisoners and sent with a guard to the border As for the Reformation abroad I desire that famous Mr. Baxter his Key for Catholicks and disswasive from Popery may be read by you who hath written so well on this point that I hope all men satissiable may be satisfied with his reasons which I need not here transcribe See also the testimonie of the Ministers at London against that horride murther to which testimonie we do still adhere and then adbered But Quis tulerit Gracchos de seditione c. †See Bilson of Subjection page 382. Doth not your great Cardinal Allen write an Apologie for Stanles treason against Queen Elizabeth Doth not Bellarmin shew lib. 5. de Pontif. cap. 8. in how many respects Kings may be deposed by their subjects Did not Pope Sixtus the fifth make an Oration at Rome in commendation of the Friar who murthered Henry the third King of France Was not Tyrones treason commenced and commended by your Party who then did take on the coâ—â— of Armes and sound the trumpet of rebellion When the Popes Bull roared in England against Queen Elizabeth how many treasons were hatched and evil humours bred in the people Thirteenthly Ye say we are justified partlie by faith partlie by workes but the § 13. Inst Scripture saith that we are justified by faith without the works of the law and that the man is justified to whom the Lord imputeth faith without workes Rom. 4. 6. and that we are saved by grace through faith not of workes lest any man should boast Neither can any good workes be wrought by us till we be justified and sanctified how can an evil tree bring forth good fruit Nor can we understand any good work which the law doth not require seeing it was tendered under the Covenant of grace Beside our best worksare leavened with many imperfections and debt for the present so these cannot absolve us for bygones or the time to come And whereas the Apostle James chapter 2. speaketh of Justification by workes his purpose there is onlie to declare what justifieth faith Now justifying faith must be a lively working faith and if it be dead it availeth not and if he hint at personal justification which verse 29. implyeth it is before men and that before the Tribunal of GOD there
seem to me against our oath of supremacie not to acknowledge any other judge in matters of controversie then scripture Seeing there his Majestie is said to be and we sworn to acknowledge him supream judge in all cases as well Civil as Eclesiastick and I pray God that Preachers and Ministers to whom only you ascribe the power of herauldry had not taken on the coat of arms these years bygon to publish any other sentence then that which did proceed from the mouth of that supream judge Answer first The Scripture we call a rule Pro. An. because it maketh the man of GOD perfect 2. Tim. 3. 16. as a rule doth a line and the Duply 1. doctrine therein is termed a judge Metonymically properly a judge is a person because it is the voice of a supreame judge who is our law-giver This we speak with the Scripture Io. 12. 48. Io. 7. 51. and Heb. 4. 13. It is the descerner of the thoughts of the heart Where 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is given to it You grant here that it is our law book Ergo Metonymically our judge and determiner it must be for we appeal to the law for judgement To this the Apostle Paul appealeth Act. 26. 22. Then there be many cases incident to a Christian in his spiritual exercise which none on earth can judge The spiritual one is judged of no mam 1. Cor. 2. 15. yet this will discern the thoughts of his heart The divine doctrine now written is the only impartial infallible determiner he who heareth not Moses the Prophets and the Apostles will not hear one risen from the dead Conscience is a rule Rom. 2. 14. a witness Rom. 2. 15. and a judge 1. Io. 3. 20. 21. It is to be considered that there is a difference betwixt humane Courts and this work the one concerneth temporals wherein we may be ruled by reason but here in matters of salvation we must have an infallible rule by revelation albeit in humane Courts the rule the witness and the judge are different for guarding against corruption to which fallen man is subject yet in foro divino in the court of GOD one may be witness judge rule accuser such is the scripture The Spirit of GOD speaketh there Is it not the law the testimony the canon or rule Gal. 6. 16. is it not a witnesser a warner Ps 19. 11. doth it not speak to men Rom. 9. 17. and will it not judge us hereafter The word which I speak to you will judge you in the last day Io. 12. 48. if then why now is it not our judge Further the judgement of discretion is but a discretive faculty no proper bench and liker a watch then a judge for it hath no authority over others the Ministerial authority is subordinâ—t and more like the office of a steward nor of a proper judge 2. Cor. 1. 24. Only the written word is the determiner and the Lord speaking there is absolute supreame judge from whom there is no appealing Answer second If the second be as good as the first it is well for notwithstanding of all Pro. An. 2 your weapon-shews you yeeld in the end what I said that we should go to the law and testimony with all our cases and that the scripture to any believer and right discerner hath divine authority Heavenly majestie and maketh spiritual impressions on the soul If it have divine authority is it not judge was there any more asserted in the first answer we hold the same similitude the King is head of Council and Session the law ratified by King and Parliament is the rule and the officers of Council and Session are administrators So our Lord Jesus is the head of his Church the written Word is the law and the Ministers of the Gospel are administrators by whom the people are directed and instructed But if the officers go contrar to the will of the King and his law the subjects may appeal from their administration to the acts of Parliament and hear the Kings pleasure when subjects wrong their inferiours and neighbours See Ps 85. 8. Hear what the Lord will say and who hath ears to hear let him hear what the Spirit sayeth to the Churches Answer third Ministers of the Gospel are called Messengers Rev. 2. 2. Cor. 8. 23. So Pro. An. 3 were they termed under the law Mal. 2. 7. and doth not the Greek word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 oft used for Preacher in the N. T. signify a cryer or herauld Why then do you scoff at Scripture As for your prayer it seemeth you pray all by the book and here you are beside it present or future things are the object of prayer but that factum should be infectum to pray that a thing done should be undone is an unwarrantable petition what hath been wrong in us heretofore should be regrated what is or hath been right is the object of praise but your prayer is unwarrantable and impossible Answer fourth Albeit our Soveraign Lord Pro. An. 4 the Kings Majestie be supream magistrat according to the Scripture 1. Pet. 2. 13. and ex officio a nursing father to the Church Is 49. 23. to whom every man civil or Ecclesiastick doth owe subjection Rom. 13. 1. Yet it will not follow that the word of GOD is not the supream determiner of all controversies in Religion Whatsoever primitive Fathers gave to Constantine the great Theodosius elder and younger c. that we give to our Soveraign Lord the King And there be no Church on earth which by their confessions of faith honour the Magistrat more then we Yet notwithstanding of this prerogative asserted and mantained against Papists by our †Viz. Bp. Bilson de Subject Usher Dr. Strang. Divines Our Soveraigne Lord the Kings Majestie will not deny that the scripture is the determiner of all the Articles of our faith seeing he mantaineth the 39. Articles of the Church of England whereof this is one Answer fifth How cometh it to pass that Pro. An. 5 you own the oath of supremacie By calling it ours seeing the main scop of that oath was to renounce the Pope his jurisdiction in the Kings dominions you must either have a dispensation for this that you here subscribe a renunciation of the Popes supremacie or else you will be declared apostar at Rome And no Papist keeping his principles can averre that wich is here set down under your hand Question third If the Scripture be judge why be there so many controversies undecyded Pa. Qu. Answer The perverseness of men is to blame for this Unstable unlearned ones wrest the Scripture to their own perdition Pro. An. 2. Pet. 3. 16. and make difficulties where there be none As much as containeth the way to salvation is plain in Scripture so that he who runneth may read and learn Reply In your third answer you please me Pap. Reply well and it confirmeth all I have said but refuteth your former answer to the full For if the
of commutative justice betwixt GOD and man by the dignity of their workes after conversion and their refusing to have Heaven gratis Andradius the interpreter of the Council of Trent Orthod explic lib. 6. saith The reward of the just is not freely given but Heaven is set to the sale for our workes Tâ—pperus saith in Explic. art Lovan tom 2. art 9. GOD forbid that the just should expect eternal life as the poor man doth his almes it is our conquest our triumph and the prize due to our labours Valentia tom 3. disp 7. telleth that the workes of the faithful are satisfactory for the punishment of sin Bellarmin bringeth forth a new evasion de just if lib. 5. cap. 10. saying that Christ merited that we should merit So that the merit of our workes is from his merits this is plaister to daub with For where do we read in Scripture that phrase He hath suffered for us that we should be holy in all manner of Conversation and serve him in righteousness and holiness but no where that we should merit eternal life the gift is wholly from him so it is written Rom. 6. 23. Secondly This is petitio principii for the question betwixt Papists and us is whither we are unprofitable servants when we have done all So speak we with Scripture they say we are meritorious men Thirdly Suarez saith Tom. 1. in Thomam disp 4. another thing that good workes are in themselves and of their own nature meritorious therefore not such because of Christ his merits Otherwise saith he we could not be said to merit We say this is the way to clipe the satisfaction of Christ Jesus the value of the price payed for us What good workes we do are mixed with imperfections and are too few alas if the Lord accept of them and reward these workes with temporal or spiritual blessings it is not for the merit of the work but of free grace and mercy and for the merits of Christ meerly So we may be freely rewarded see Matth. 5. 46. Luk. 6. 32. where the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 are promiscuously taken We cannot make amends to GOD nor satisfie his justice but his promise is sure not according to our merits but his own mercy so we must inherit eternal life this is Aug. doctrine on Ps 88. and Chrysost on Col. 2. Your satisfactions and merits are contrar to Scripture pure antiquity dishonourable to Jesus Christ and prejudicial to souls Now you see this reflection might have been well spared for it is no reply at all to what I said Sixteenthly Ye foster loosness and prophainess § 16. Inst by telling tales about Purgatory the use of prayer and sacrifices for the dead But the Scripture saith Heb. 9. 27. after death cometh judgement which must be understood immediatly otherwise it might be said after birth cometh judgement and in the grave there is neither work nor invention neither is there any place appointed for people after their removal hence save Heaven or hell Reply The telling of men that after their Papist Reply sins are forgiven they must suffer for the temporal pain due to them is not a way to foster loosness but rather to terrifie all who believe from offending GOD in the least seeing all such must be chastised either by GOD punishing or man doing pennance and that voluntary either here or in Purgatory hereafter according to the Apostle 1. Cor. 3. 15. If any ones work burn he shal suffer loss but he shal be saved yet so as by fiâ—e which place Augustin citing on Ps 37. saith and because it is said he shal be saved that fire is contemned yet that fire shal be more grievous then whatever a man can suffer in this life Purge me O Lord and make me such a one as shal not need that mending fire c. Now doth St. Paul or Aug. here tell tales Or can that mending fire by which a man is saved be more grievous then what he can suffer here Or can it make a man loose to pray with Aug. thus But it may be he was doting here as when he said Mass for his Mothers soul as we read in his Confessions committing both sacriledge and Idolatrie as commonly Protestants say to please an old wâ—fe after her death You adde that Scripture saith after death cometh judgement and in the grave there be neither work nor invention What maketh this against Purgatory Do Catholicks deny that we are justified at the very moment of death before they go to Purgatory Or that they work in the grave But how is it true say you there is no place mentioned in Scripture save Heaven oâ— hell to which the godly and wicked do go Albeit all go to one of these places yet is there not a prison mentioned from which a man shal not go till he hath payed the uttermost farthing Matth. 5. 25. which the Fathers expounded to be Purgatory viz. Hierom on this chapter St. Cyp. ep 52. Tertull. lib. de anima and doth not St. Paul above cited speak of another fire then that of hell Duply You have Rhetorications in defence Prote ∣ stants Duply of Purgatory which I pass and touch reason or testimonie produced by you You mention two texts of Scripture the one is Matth. 5. 25. where we are commanded to agree with our adversarie quickly c. this place proveth no Purgatory prison For first It is allegorick and so cannot be argumentative on a controverted point All that is here intended is that brethren should dwel together in love and forgive other their trespasses against them as is clear from the context Secondly If it were meaned of Purgatory it would make the Lord their adversarie they behoved to be delivered up to the Devil for he is the Jaylor of the prison Now it is strange divinity to say that the Lord is an adversary and the Devil a Jaylor to the man whose sins are forgiven him Thirdly If this prison be Purgatory then there is commutative justice betwixt GOD and man for such here pay the uttermost farthing And who can say to the Lord forgive me have mercy upon me and yet be of this judgement that he can pay all his debt by that mending fire and not owe any thing to free gracious pardon Fourthly It maketh punishment to purge away punishment which is Repugnantia in adjecto For you grant that the filth and blot of sin is removed here Your own Jansenius interpreteth it not of Purgatory Concor in locum The other Scripture is 1. Cor. 3. We shal be saved yet so as by fire that is not meaned of purgatorie fire but of probatorie fire in this life not hereafter Let any man read the chapter and he will see this the purpose of the Holy Ghost to shew what was doctrinally or practically erroneous should be put to the firie tryall when judgment should begin at the house of God as the Apostle Peter