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A49373 Persecution detected in all his new forms: or, A dialogue between Nimrod policy, and Nathanael innocency Wherein persecution is followed and detected in his chiefest tabernacles; being packing apace out of his old g[...]bs of presbytery into his swept and garnisht forms of independency and the water-way: wherein is shewed the originall, and name, and interest of policy, with many of his assistants; and also of innocency: with the epitome of a true Christian: also several considerable queres touching God, his word, his essence; and Christ, and his works in man; as touching heaven, and hell, and sin, and the sabbath &c. of Moses; touching the true rest and centre of a Christian. By John Lane, late quartermaster to Sir Hardresse Wallers regiment. Lane, John, quartermaster. 1652 (1652) Wing L338; ESTC R213607 17,333 26

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are meant by the clouds that Christ appears in whether it be meant of elementary clouds that are exhaled from the earth or clouds that the wise world will not think he will appear in Rev. 1. 7. Sixthly Touching Sin 21. Whether Sin be any thing else but the effects of mans vain imaginations Eccles. 7. 29. being darkned with wrathfull Jdolatry against the light of in them although there is nothing in it self an Idoll whether sin be of necessity that the Creation cannot be without it or whether it be accidentall or contingent since it must be destroyed Seventhly Touching the Sabbath 22. Whether any Gentile if he had lived within half a mile of Moses power should have participated of the Jewish priviledges except he had been proselited and if not then whether he was to conform to their Laws if it were when Moses lived especially that of keeping their Sabbath in that manner as they did it 23. Whether any Gentile living without Moses power were punishable for breaking any of the Mosaicall Laws in the form they were in or were to be done to death for not keeping the Sabbath and if not why any Gentiles now should be tied to keep it or one like it whether Gentiles had any other direction to worship then the teachings of God in nature J mean without their own inventions and before they became vain in their imaginations and if they had not then although they were directed in nature to adore a superiour entity yet where were they tied to time as such a day or place or to do this and leave the other undone or else you shall die the death 24. Whether or no a Christian that is entred into his rest and ceased from his ovvn works doth esteem any day above another or rather whether a true Christian doth not keep seven Sabbaths every week 25. Whether or no if one should keep a true Christian Sabbath of resting in God and from all mans own works of what nature soever and should do the works that a Christian may freely do then whether one may not be put to death for it by many pharisaicall ones that wear Philacteries of commandements in their foreheads only being within full of rottennesse Pol. Innocency thy Quaeres will ask Oedipus skill to unfold they are many of them so parabolicall but I shall give you my thoughts on them the next oportunity in the mean while I must be forc't to take my leave of you with thanks for all your pains only desiring you to make use of me when you have occasion and you shall find me your ready friend Nimrod Policy Innocency Well Sir I shall draw to a conclusion I should have been glad if your time had been longer but I know you are so full of worldly businesses I shall be glad to have som further discourse with you touching your own country interests assistants when I may and to shew you how dangerous much of the worlds wisdome is unto the universall designe of God viz. of peace love joy freedom and ease to the Creation But Sir I shall not trouble you more at present but that I AM Nathanael Innocency THe night doth passe The day makes hast The Clouds do flie away The glory bright Of innocent light Comes forth like the Star of the day Good and evill are going Heaven Saints none-knowing 'Cause conscience is purged from sin By the life of Christ The love of the highest That hath brought his own righteousnesse in For sure it is true The man born new He cannot sin at all Being born of God Which down hath trod All that might him inthrall If Christ do not All sins out-blot And cleare the conscience from guilt The shadowes before They could do more With the bloud of Bulls that was spilt For once a yeare The people was cleare The Goat with their sins away run But Christ for ever All sins doth sever From man who els were undone From Sina hast Those clouds do wast Gods life in Zion is Conquer all sin By Christ within And come up to mans primitive blisse When Jnnocency With a single eye Was his impartiall law No good he knew Nor evill could do No hrror his mind did awe Then was man free From all that we And creatures now groan under And all did see Come from Unity Which to the wise world 's a wonder How man may be Again set free From all that 's good or evill And live i' th rest Of the first-born blest And fear no sin hell Devill The second Part. IF sin be no more 'T will plague the Whore That on many waters doth ride 'Cause sins are her gaine With the creatures pain Are her temple where she doth abide And were 't not for sin Which she keeps the world in This Whore would pine away Priests and Lawyers might sterve And all Nimrods that serve Her Holinesse to display For the Man of sin Is the chief Engine The Antichrist hath left And expell him from man The Whore is then With all Devills of power bereft Wherefore many say Although the Whore pray And holinesse much pretend Yet sin is her life With division and strfe But God-living her gory will end For many see plain The Enmity 's slain Sins Divell and Hell do quake The Serpent is crost And the Beasthe is cast With the Whore into the Lake Where the fire of God With his rightous rod Their powers doth make to reel Their basis is known And God in ill one The Lambs w 〈…〉 th doth make them feel The third Part. FOr 〈…〉 love joy with peace In the world do increase The wise ones would be mad 'Cause 't will set high Natures propertie Which will make all Nimrodians sad For Christ the true VVill have all new ●●d now again will detect The disparity great That the poor doth cheat He doth abhor and reject And principle highs Of true parity He will in man promote The Gentiles saith he Love lordly to be But Christians have no such thought For he that 's greatest Among you shall be least Of men no honor receive But be right kind And pure in mind And of God you the glory shall have And unto all do As J you show As you would be done unto Your conscience is judge At it do not grudge It 's your rule equally to do Another on the Virgin-Life THe Virgin-life Is free from strife The will it is resigned Into its center It doth enter With the Fathers will being joyned And what he wills The Virgin fills With the rayes of glory bright She hath communion With God in union And liveth alone in his light The Beastiall principle Is not the Temple Where the Sophia resides Shee 's o're all passions And beast-like fashions And passive in God she abides The kingdome of Christ Esteemed the highest The Virgin-life a above All rule and power In her that houre Are swallowed up in God-love The Virgins actions innocent are The seamlesse coat it is for her She all things now doth know Now she doth see All fig-leaves flee All clouds from her do go FINIS Errata Page 1. line 5. for you to be a souldier read you seem to be a souldier c.
PERSECUTION detected in all his new FORMS OR A DIALOGUE BETWEEN Nimrod Policy and Nathanael Innocency WHEREIN Persecution is followed and detected in his chiefest Tabernacles being packing apace out of his old Garbs of Presbytery into his swept and garnisht Forms of Independency and the Water-way Wherein is shewed the Originall and name and Interest of Policy with many of his Assistants and also of Innocency With the Epitome of a true Christian Also severall considerable Queres touching God his Word his Essence and Christ and his Works in man as touching Heaven and Hell and Sin and the Sabbath c. of Moses touching the true Rest and Centre of a CHRISTIAN By John Lane late Quartermaster to Sir Hardresse Wallers Regiment Gal. 4. 29. But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit even so it is now Thes. 2. 15. 16. Who both killed the Lord Jesus and their own Prophets and have persecuted us and they please not God and are contrary to all men Forbidding us to speak to the Gentiles that they might be saved to fill up their sins alway for the wrath is come upon than to the uttermost London Printed for the Author and are to be sold at the Black-Moore neer Fleet-bridge 1652. To all my Friends and Enemies of what Opinion soever they be Deare Hearts THis is the first time I have appeared a fool in print although very often other wayes ye suffer fools gladly I might have been thought otherwise had I held my tongue For silence is more safe then speech when enemies be auditors I shall not go about by rhetoricall phrases to beg thy good opinion of the ensuing Dialogue For if I were able to do it I would not for the more Writings are so dressed the lesse they sauour of true meaning All that I desire is that you read consider and moderately judge and wherein I am too prolix abridge it in your thoughts and wherein I am too short inlarge it in your thoughts for they are not so chargeable as words neither so dangerous My intentions in this promiscuous Pamphlet were not to offend any that are conscientious if it be of an idoll for I have been blinder then I am but to detect that subtill enemy of the Creations peace Persecution as also the violent humours of some of his tabernacles and their designes 〈…〉 All that I shall say to you more at present is to desire any that may be offended to do as some have formerly said if so it must be only to hate my opinions but not my person the same that I used to reply unto them when I suffered under Presbyters for water-Baptism I shall now unto you viz. If my opinions be that which you so hate and would persecute those I will give you either in paper or parchment and do with them what you please imprison hang or burn them but let my person alone and then I shall believe you onely hate my opinions But if a 〈…〉 Sycophant or Crocodilian or Cameleon Pharisee that is a fault-finder who sees not the beam in his own eye shall cast dirt in my face by reason of my affliction the Almighty hath suffered me to undergo in the world let all such know that although I must confesse I have much gone astray from truth yet I am able to cast off any dirt that envy hath or may cast on me and to appeare if I would with as large a menstruous garment of my own righteousnesse as some others although I had rather glory in my infirmities and sufferings for God in whom I have peace though in the world I may have trouble and rest Yours J. L. A Dialogue between NIMROD POLICY AND NATHANAEL INNOCENCY Policy SIr you are well met your grave feature and contemplative gesture invites my desire to have some discourse with you whilest our time will permit Innocency Sir J am willing to discourse but very unable besides Sir by your Mars-like physiognomy and habit you to be a souldier and therefore J shall be cautious of speaking what otherwaies J might very freely because J have heard that many souldiers are notable Politicians and are very cruell to any that differ from them if it be but in opinion and have used many very cruelly for it besides J do hear there are many Decoys go abroad who have all the dimensions of speaking allowed them on purpose to catch others and to make them offenders for words but Sir if you will ingage to me to take no advantage against me for words J shall discourse with you so far as J am able and may with safety Policy Sir J shall ingage to you my honor that J will not take any advantage of you for words be they what they will J can bear them only J advise you for your own sake to speak no treason or blasphemy Innocency Sir that I shall although J scarce know what treason or blasphemy is it is no treason is it Sir to say when Christ hath put down all Rule Authority and Power he will surrender the Kingdome to the father and God shall be all in all 1 Cor. 15. Pol. Sir J have nothing to say to that because it's Scripture but pray Sir give me your name Countrey and interests in these promiscuous 〈…〉 stracted times for for ought J know you may be more a Decoy ●hen J. Inno. To avoid your suspition of me I shall because time is short and I believe you affect brevity give you my name and Countrey but my interest you shall know another time when we have more leisure Pol. Well Sir go on what is your name and Countrey c. Innoc. Sir my name is Innocency of kin to that which Scriptures report to have been in the primitive estate of man in which estate he was upright and knew no good nor evill and was then free from all that either internally as to conscience or externally as to bondage oppression or wrath hath seized on the Creations peacefull naturall harmony propriety which now they groan under and will not be eased of but when they shall attain the glorious liberty of the Sons of God and the first Resurrection viz. above and from all that's sin death hell divells or darknesses the effects of mans vain imaginary work or torments mentall c. But Sir as touching my Countrey it is Sion not Sina wrath smoke darknesse the City of the living Jehovah which is the centre of the first born that have ceased from their own work of menstruous righteousnesse and superficiall holinesse and have resigned up their wills into the Divine Will where they truly see God to be all and in all the spirituall perfect ones only living there in that life who walk with God and are not as to any fleshly serpentine glory or wisdome of this world the world to come being in subjection to them in Christ and Christ in them the hope of greater glory where none that
hope some old skilfull Physitians wil cure purge and cut off if need be rotten members that have gangrene humors in them there be many that pray for life everlasting but very few for an everlasting P but Sir I do not desire to meddle in these things you should know more of them then I and I am perswaded if you are a souldier that you may say more then I dare I shall say this the whole needeth not the Physitian ut fi●t justitia rua● mundus Pol. Well Innocency I am willing to passe that question by at present believing that you can say more to it but that there are so many words about it a ready and I believe you do not affect so much verbosity besides you must not say all you can although it be never so true for all truth may not be spoken at all times time is the herald of truth truth is a vertue that scaleth heaven illuminateth earth maintaineth Justice governeth Common-weals kills hate nourisheth love and discovereth secrets and yet may not at all times be declared where there is Law against it Inno. Sir If you are so willing to passe that preceding question and to go to an other pray do for I believe if all truth should be spoken it would extremely torment the earth what is your next question Pol. My next question to thee is what interest thou art for in these distracted and divided times art thou a Protestant or a Presbyter or an Independent or one of the Water way or one of those called Seekers of which there be many sorts Inno. Sir I am for neither of those interests singly other then they serve to inlarge the Common-wealth of the Creation and so I am for all of them although differing one from an other in opinions but Sir it 's like you may make use of all of them to serve your ends on them although you be of neither of their opinions for so policy can do and will seldome do more then be for either of them as they are usefull to him or for all of them together if the spirit of people be that way Pol. Well Innocency if you are neither of them then I hope you will deale plainly with me in your thoughts of some or all of them if J shall desire it in our further discourse because I perceive you are unbiassed as to either of them I shall leave the old Protestants so called because we will be brief at present and begin with some Presbyters what think you of them are they likely to do the world that good they now generally expect viz. ease to their persons estates and minds Inno. Sir as to your desire of plain dealing from me touching those persons and interests hinted in the premises I shal so far as I may for you although I may die a begger for it but I shall but epitomize them and their designs c. a word may serve you you being wise besides I know you do not affect prolixity Pol. Well Innocency go on as briefly as thou wilt to thy opinion of them what thinkst thou of Presbyters Inno. Sir I think many of them are going down the wind nay almost all of them except some that have of late turn'd GIBEONITES for their spirit viz. persecution for opinion is going from them apace into another form which some of the wisest of them go along with and think to use them again in another garb then that of Presbytery for they think to sweep and garnish another dwelling for that unclean spirit which if they do for ought I know their latter end may be worse then their beginning for these are searching times But Sir in few words I shall tell you they of the Presbytery were so violently eaten up for the zeal of the Lords House and have so whin'd and pin'd and fasted c. that they have made that seeming pamper'd Palphray as poor as a Scotch Galloway taken at Worcester that so now very many of them have very small trading and have little to do except it be to receive Tithes and read the Directory and spend some of those estates they have gained if they have much left out of their late contributions to the CHARITABLE USES OF LOVE but Sir I tell you many of the Presbyters have great hopes of a Resurrection of their cause for they use all the skill and power they have to do it especially in the Committee of Divines where if they can helpe it none shall passe to preach that are friends to the Common-wealth but rather such as can speak pure Scotch and are railers against Sectaries of all sorts this with many other great influences they have elswhere doth make them hope and I think yet whine forth their many invectives in parobolicall sayings against the Common-wealth but Sir I shall leave them at present what is your next question Pol. I see you have known the spirit of Presbytery and although you say you will leave them were you in their power they would not so leave you I shall say little of them at present save that I well know them but go on to the next form viz. that of Independents so called and tell me thy thoughts of them Inno. Sir I shall tell you what I hear of many so called viz. some say there went but a pair of sheers between them and their elder Brethren the Presbyters the one going a little backwards and the other going a little forwards to make up the Brotherhood with LOVE besides some call many of these Norfolk Independents because say they such of them are for a toleration of the true Religion which is as they say that only which they believe and follow viz. the form of Congregationall Churches the Pope was alwaies for such a toleration viz his own way of worship besides Mr. Policy many think that Mr. Persecution doth intend to dwell a while in that swept and garnished form when he is wholly departed from Presbytery as if the Pithagorian Doctrine of Transmiguration were true he alwaies leaps from one form to an other and usually appeareth most in the form that is in most repute in the world although it be that which when he dwelt in Papacy and Episcopary he persecuted but have a care thou that hast said it was not good to persecute for difference in opinion doest thou persecute who art thou that judgest thy Brother dost thou not know that every one shall give an account of himself to God wilt thou not see how that arch-enemy to the Creations peace Persecution hath served his old Tabernacles of Episcopacy and Presbytery he may do as much for thee that art a persecuting Independent it 's good for thee to be moderate in this day of Gods strange workings although he make thy ears tingle at the Clouds he appeareth in do you not know that Gods way hath been to do his greatest works by the most contemptible and base means to stain the pride of all glory