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A69024 A replie to a relation, of the conference between William Laude and Mr. Fisher the Jesuite. By a witnesse of Jesus Christ Burton, Henry, 1578-1648. 1640 (1640) STC 4154; ESTC S104828 423,261 458

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their communion with Christ. Now for the second Instance of shaking the Foundation Christ which is Profanesse Tell me are not the ten Commandements Fundamentalls as being the principles and rules of our Sanctification So as the Popes Parasites are not so impudent as in their Decretals and other writings to affirme that he can dispence with the morall Law although they say of him in the Decretalls That Papa aliquando nimium Papaliter dispensat The Pope sometimes dispenseth too papally or Pope-like What say you then of the 4 th Commandement touching the Sabbath day of the Lord our God and the Sanctification thereof Dare you say the Commandement is not Morall being placed in the midst of the Ten And though that seaventh day being the Last of the week as wherein God rested after the finishing of the worke of Creation which he therefore appointed to be the Sabbath day of the Old Testament be now abrogated as giving place to a new Sabbath day the First of the Weeke wherein our Lord Iesus Christ having finished the worke of a New creation rising againe entred into his Rest namely the State of Rest Immortality and Glory is therefore the 4 th Cammandements Morality so abrogated as it is not still in force to injoyne us Christians the Sanctification of that day of the Week which is the Sabbath day of the Lord our God Iesus Christ Or doth it not aswell and by the same Reason bind us Christians to the Sanctification of the first day of the week as whereon the Lord our God Iesus Christ rested from a greater worke of Creation as it did the Jewes to the Sanctification of the 7 th or last day of the Week as whereon the Lord God rested from his worke of the Creation of Heaven and Earth It is so demonstrative and cleare that to deny it argues not onely grosse ignorance in the knowledge of Christ and of Divinity but also a mind destitute of grace and true sanctity that dare imagine the least imperfection or mutability to be in that or any other of the Morall Commandements Now if the 4 th Commandement bind us Christians as 't is cleare it doth and as hereafter I shall take occasion to be a little more large in it to the Sanctification of the Sabbath or rest day of the Lord our God which is now the First day of the weeke upon the same Reason that it obliged the Jewes of the Old Testament to keep the 7 th or last day of the week then is not the open profanation of the Lords day by sports and pastimes a shaking of a foundation of Faith Nor doe I meane onely a Profanation thereof de facto in practise either through ingnorance or custome or frailty but by open and professed Toleration and Dispensation and that by publick Edict incouraging people to such vain sports and pastimes as doe most Heathenishly profane not onely the Day but the very name of Christianity and Christian Profession So as this Profanation and so violation of the 4 th Commandement is of a very high nature and a sinne of presumption as wherein humane Authority lifts it selfe up against and above the Law-giver himselfe daring to dispense with his holy and eternall Law and that in giving liberty to the flesh to commit sinne even with greedinesse Now this Foundation of Faith whereby the Communion of Saints and all true sanctification of life is supported and maintained to wit in the due sanctification of this day in all holy duties publique and private being thus not onely shaken but with high contempt troden under profane feet through intollerable pride of men have you put to your hand as firmly as you can to support it Did you interpose your selfe that that Booke for Sports might not be revived out of the Ashes wherein it had lyen so long buried as it was all rotten and forgotten Or that it might not be reprinted with a new Enforcement Or at least if it must needs be so that it might not be pressed upon Ministers to read it in their Congregations to the manifest dishonour of GOD and their holy Ministry and to the great offence of their Consciences and of their People And when the feare of GOD and their owne Conscience withheld some from reading of it did you spare any of them from suspension at least Did you spare Mr. Wilson of Kent from Suspending him with your own mouth Nay were not divers Ministers in Surrey and els where as in Kent Essex c. so prosecuted as either they were put out of their livings as Mr. Snelling of Kent or els for feare of worse did voluntarily quit their livings and got them gone And when upon petition some were referred to you what reliefe had they Did you put to your hand as firmely as you could to support the poore men Or did you show them the least mercy or favour Nay on the contrary are you not the Grand if not the Sole Instrument both of reviving republishing pressing it upon Ministers punishing and oppressing them yea and undoing them about it Is this to put to your hand as firmly as you can to support such a Foundation of Faith when you not onely shake but breake down the Pillars by whose Ministry such a foundation is maintained Are you not then not onely too wary and one that hath more care of himselfe then of the Cause of Christ but too unreasonably bold and impious in not onely not supporting but putting to your hand as firmely as you can to the utter demolishing and ruinating of these holy Foundations of Faith both by your Antichristian superstition and Heathenish profanesse Nay in so shaking one Foundation the 4 th Commandment in the open toleration of the profanation of the Lords Sabbath day you shake all those ten Foundations overturning all holinesse all duties to God and Man as Infidelity against the first Commandement Setting up your May-Idol-Poles against the second Commandement taking Gods name in vaine in breaking that Baptismall vow of Christianity in renouncing all vanity against the third Commandement despising and abusing Gods Ordinances against the fourth teaching irreverence and disobedience to Parents and Masters and that expresly against the fifth Commandement giving occasion of murther against the sixth of adultery against the seaventh of drunkennesse and so of theft and opening the very flood gate to all wickednesse To conclude this point Either your Lorship is most grosly ignorant of the Foundations of Faith what they be or you are extreamely selfe blind in imagining that the world will not suspect any Serpent lurking under the green leaves of your goodly words having too much tasted of your bitter fruits so as your fair words and foule actions must needs make men asmuch abhorre your gracelesse hypocrisie as they doe your shamelesse impiety while under a faire colour and meere pretence of holding and upholding the Foundations of Faith you undermine them and blow them up L. p. 13 14. Comparing the Church
the strength of your powerfullest perswasive reasons and draw them by your gentlest motives but doe not hale and dragge them with the violence of your Archiepiscopall power and Romish zeale Throw not Godly Ministers out of their Ministry and Means and that by Hundreds with their Wives and Children exposed to all miseries of poverty and all because they will not dare not yeeld to your lawlesse Prelaticall Impositions Innovations Usurpations But if you will needs proceed on in that your violent course against Christ and Christian liberty and peace of mens Consciences assure your selfe you shall not pr●sper you shall not be victor Christ will confound you with all your Power and Pollicie And He shal be both Irenaenus and Victor for his Church both to Conquer his Enemies and to restore Peace to his People And thus much of your example of Irenaeus and Victor L. p. 141. Well thus the whole Militant Church is holy and so we beleeve And if she erre in the Foundation that is in some one or more Fundamentall points of Faith then she may be a Church of Christ still but not Holy but becomes Hereticall And most certaine it is that no Assembly be it never so Generall of such Hereticks is or can be holy P. Doe you beleeve the whole Militant Church to be holy And so doe I. But your whole Militant Church is not the same with that which I beleeve is holy For your whole Militant Church whereof you professe to be a member is in plain terms the Antichristian Church and the Church Malignant which is a persecuter of the true Militant Church of Christ as both hath been and yet will be made more manifest So as your Militant Church is properly so called for no other reason but because it makes Warre against Christ and his Saints Rev. 12.7 and 13.7 and 16.14 and 17.14 but the true Militant Church of Christ is so called because she fights spiritually under Christs banner against Sinne the World the Flesh the Devil and cruell Persecuters whom she overcomes by the blood of the Lambe and by the word of her Testimony not loving her life unto the death So as your Militant Church is a name which you have usurped abused and perverted whereas it is to be named according to its nature The Church Malignant For further proofe hereof you say if she erre in some one or more Fundamentall points c. Which implyes your Militant Church may erre in points Fundamentall Which cannot possibly be understood of the onely true holy Catholicke Militant Church of Iesus Christ. For this whole Militant Church of the Elect cannot either in whole or in part or in the least member of it erre in any Fundamentall point so as thereby to bec●me unholy For this were else to fall from Christ and from ●he Com●munion of Saints by being seduced by Antichrists and false Prophets who shall deceive if it were possible but it is not possible the ver● Elect. This erring in the Foundation belongs and extends to all the Reprobates of the world who are by Antichrist seduced unto their perdition who because they receive not the love of the Truth that they might be saved God shall send them strong Delusions to b●leeve a lye yea to beleeve that for truth which their own ●eared Conscience tells them is a lye For not to receive the love of the truth implyes that they had received the truth unto acknowledgement and conviction but the love of this truth they imbraced not But the whole Militant Church of Christ I say cannot be so seduced unto perdition or to fall from Christ. What is it to fall from Christ To fall from Christ is to fall from that Faith and love of Christ which once they professed that is from the Faith of the Doctrine of Christ and from that love which they professed towards it And this fa●ling from the Faith of Christ is when any one Fundamentall point of faith is denyed and persisted in as we have formerly proved as in the Resurrection and Circumcision and sundry others I might adde here many other Instances as the Deniall of all the Doctrines of Grace in Gods Free Election Redemption c. which Grace and Merit of Christ is peculiar to the Elect onely I will onely adde one more here which I but touched before He that denyes the Lords day to be the Sabbath day of Christians commanded no lesse to Christians in the 4th Commandement then the seventh or last day of the week was to the Iewes he erres in the Foundation becomes unholy and falls away from the Faith of Christ. This I demonstrate thus First The 4 th Commandement is Morall and so eternall and unchangeable And as the eternall sabbatisme is in heaven belonging to the Church Tryumphant so there is a sabbatisme temporall pertaining to the Church Militant in this world This sabbatisme as the other is the rest of God His Rest saith David This Sabbatisme in the Church Militant is by God himselfe appointed to be solemnly observed of the whole Congregation on that seventh day of the week wheron himselfe rested This Sabbath or rest of God was on the seventh or last day of the week upon the finishing of the worke of creation And therfore for that very cause God commanded his People in the Old Testament to sanctifie that Sabbath day weekly This is given as the Reason of its sanctification by the People The seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord thy God For in six d●yes he made heaven and earth and rested the seventh Therfore c. Remember to sanctifie the Sabbath day the Lords Sabbath day And note he saith not Remember to sanctifie the seventh or last day of the week but Remember to sanctifie the Sabbath day These words are the Morall substance of the Commandement The rest is an exposition and application of it the exposition to keep holy that Day for Sabbath which is the Lords own Sabbath day wherein himselfe hath rested Note this well for I will speak much here in few words Weigh them therfore number them not The particular application of the seventh or last day of the week as wherein God rested from his works of Creation is commended and commanded to Gods people under the Old Testament So as if there had not come in afterwards a more glorious Sabbath or rest of Gods as from a more glorious worke of a more glorious Creation we Christians also should have kept that seventh day that the Jewes kept But that this more glorious day of a more glorious rest of God from a more glorious worke being come then the same 4 th Commandement commands us Christians to keep this new Day of Rest of the Lord our God So as though the Day be changed yet the Commandement is the same It binds us still to sanctifie the Sabbath of the Lord our God Secondly for the application of the 4 th Commandement to us
Christians Remember to keep the Sabbath day holy What Sabbath day Or what day for Sabbath The Sabbath day of the Lord thy God wherein himselfe rested What day is that The first day of the weeke This is another seventh day reckoning the weeke backward Now on this first day of the week the Lord our God Iesus Christ after that he had finished the worke of Redemption being a new Creation and much more glorious then the former in many respects rose againe from the dead and so entred into his Rest that morning and moment of his Rising again He entred then I say into the state of Rest though not into the place of Rest till his Ascension This is sufficient But the work of Redemption was finished on the Crosse. Not altogether on the Crosse Christ indured and finished his suffering of the pangs and paines of death when he said Consummatum est It is finished but there remained the bonds of death to be indured and that was in the grave 3 dayes to redeem us aswell our bodies from the grave as our soules from hell on the Crosse. Now all this being finished to wit the whole worke of Redemtion Christ rising the 3 d day therein rested from his worke And this being the Sabbath or Rest of the Lord our God surpassing the former Rest in glory and into which rest or sabbatisme all beleeving Christians do enter and have an Interest as Heb. 4.3 it follows necessarily that as by Christs example of Resting on that day as by his Commandement to keep the Sabbath day of the Lord our God wherein himselfe hath rested that we Christians do sanctifie the Lords day the first day of the week for our Christian Sabbath day according to the 4 th Commandement Which if we doe not as not holding our selves bound by the 4 th Commandement Then all these errors in the fundamentalls of faith follow upon it As first by not sanctifying the Lords day for our Christian Sabbath day we utterly deny overthrow and destroy the Morality of the 4 th Commandement which to the Militant Church on earth stands in this To sanctifie the Sabbath day of the Lord our God It commands us this or nothing and if nothing it loseth both the Nature and Name of a Commandement And if you doe acknowledge and beleeve it to be as it is one of Gods ten Morall Commandements then of necessity you must either sanctifie the first day of the week for Sabbath whereon Christ arose and rested or else you must sanctifie that seventh day of the Old Testament which God rested on from his worke of Creation which the Jewes observed And if you keep the Jewes Sabbath you must turn Jew and deny Christ to be come in the flesh For in Deuteronomy God commands them to keep the Sabbath day in memory of their Redemption from Aegipt and so their Sabbath day was turned into a type of another Sabbath or Rest that was to be brought in upon the accomplishment of our spirituall Redemption Which being now finished that typicall Sabbath is vanished being the last Type which was fulfilled by Christ resting in his Grave on that day and so utterly abolished in that more glorious Rest of his Resurrection If then you keep the Jewes Sabbath you do with them deny Christ to be come And if you sanctifie not the first day of the weeke instead of and succeding in place of the old Sabbath day then as you utterly deny and destroy the 4 th Commandement so you deny the worke of Redemption finished on the Crosse and in the Grave you deny his Resurrection wherein he rested from that worke and you deny the very rest of heaven and you deny the Communion of Saints both in the Church Militant and Triumphant First you deny the Accomplishment of the worke of Redemption on the Crosse and in the Redemption it selfe in denying the Rest of Christ in the day of his Resurrection For if he then rested not the worke of Redemption was not finished And you deny he rested in denying his rest to be the rest of the Lord our God which the 4 th Commandement commands us Christians to keepe weekly on that day which if we keep not Christ hath not rested and so he hath not redeemed us Secondly in denying Christs rest you deny his Resurrection For if he rested not he arose not For the very first moment of his Resurrection began his rest If then you sanctifie not the Day of his rest for the Christian Sabbath day you deny as Christs rest so his Resurrection and the whole vertue of it by which we arise from Sinne spiritually and from the Grave corporally And cursed is he that hath not his part in the first Resurrection for on him the second death that is eternall death shall have power because Blessed and holy is he that hath his part in the first Resurrection for on him the second death shall have no power Thirdly in thus denying Christs rest in his Resurrection while you deny that day to be the holy rest or Sabbath day of Christians you deny as Christs eternall rest in heaven so that rest or sabbatisme which remaines for the people of God As the Apostle saith There remaineth therfore Sabbatismòs a sabbatisme or Sabbaticall holy rest for the people of God Therfore Wherupon is this inferred Upon the former verse where he speaks of this very Sabbath or Rest day of Christians which is as the first fruits of the eternall sabbatisme For saith he If Iesus Iosua had given them rest then would he not afterwards have spoken of another day Another day What other day but that rest day which our Iesus rested on and which is our rest day For when Christ in his Resurrection entred into his rest he made that day the day of our rest which gives us an Interest in and brings us to his eternall rest For Certainly if we doe not rest with Christ in the Day of his Rest weekly here according to the Commandement we shall never rest with him eternally in heaven He that keeps not this Other Day which succeeded that under the Law hath no sabbatisme remaining for him in heaven Lastly in denying this Rest-day of Christ to be our Christian Sabbath to be sanctified according to the Commandment you deny the Communion of Saints in the Church Militant and consequently in the Church Triumphant For except there be a Communion of Saints in the Church Militant which is the seed of the Church Triumphant what Communion of Saints can be in heaven For none are Saints there which were not fi●st Saints here And what Communion of Saints can be here but especially in the holy and solemne Assemblies where they are to Communicate together in Prayer and Thanks-giving and hearing of the Word and receiving of the Sacrament And how can this be if there be not a set day for it And who shall appoint this day but God himselfe And what Day
they renounce all such lords Aske them againe why they subject their Consciences soules and bodies to the will and lust of man in will-worship forbidden by the Apostle ô they answere they never knew that before and now that they know it they repent of it and from henceforth they renounce it and resolve to loose rather life and all then they will doe so any longer Thus even a good Christian through ignorance may for a time in a dangerous errour but so soon as he is convinced of it he will not for all the world continue in it So he that hath true saving faith in Christ resting on Christs merits alone for his justification he neither will nor can be brought to beleeve that he must be justified by his works For this is against the very nature of saving faith which rests onely on Christ renouncing all other respects So that 't is impossible that any true member of Christ should by any errour be so seduced as to be seperated from Christ for he is preserved by the spirit of Grace by the power of God through faith unto salvation So that as the whole body of the Church of Christ so every particular member of this body hath the certaine and infallible seale of the Spirit of Truth given him of Christ according to his promise purpose and intention for all truth absolutely necessary to salvation having both his Spirit and word to guide them into all truth Finally 't is very true being taken in a true sence that Christ never intended to leave an infallible certainty in his Church to satisfie either contentious or curious or presumptuous spirits And if not presumptuous spirits certainly not such spirits as usurpe a Prelaticall and Lordly Authority and to sit as visible Iudges of Scripture in Generall Councels imposing upon all men a servile yoake of obedience to their Decrees whether right or wrong true or false Nay to such presumptuous spirits God hath given eyes not to see and hath made their hearts fat not to understand the truth not to see the light that shineth in his word and therfore they say it is darke and speake disgracefully of it So as the presumptuous is properly yours As for the contentious and curious these are they that contend for the truth against your undermining and oppugning of it and are curious ●o search and sound the bottome of that Mystery of Iniquity which is cunningly yet grosly enough folded up in the voluminous leaves of this your Booke So as for these so contentious and curious Christ did intend to leave an Infallible certainty in his Church to satisfie them and to assure them of the Truth so as not all the opposition and contradiction in the world can beate them from it To the Tenth you make no matter of it if Generall C●uncels erre in one or a second or a third so it be not in things necessary In other cases it makes no matter if they erre And what matter is it then if there be none of your Generall Councel at all For you confesse that they may possibly though not easily erre in things necessary and in fundamentall points of Faith and yet obedience must be given If then it be no matter if in other things they erre on●e twice thrice yea or if you will in a hundred things take all these together and the world should be free from many dangers if it were rid of Generall Councels altogether But in the meane time you make no matter of it if in so erring they load the world with an intollerable burthen of errours which all men must bow their necks under till another Generall Councel doe free them and perhaps in stead of freeing them may lay as much more load upon them Truly my Lord if you had not a liberty to talk with your pen what you please and a strong opinion also that whatsoever you write or speake must needs be of every body highly applauded as if all you write were Oracles you would never have suffered such foule blots to have dropped from your pen. But 't is no matter If you erre in this and that and another c. aswell as your Generall Councels so as we knowing them may not in obeying or assenting erre with you To the Eleventh you say for necessary faith to salvation we have the Scriptures Creeds 4 first Generall Councels So then being furnisht of necessaries what need we any more I think the Apostles rule for temporall things may hold well in spirituall he saith having food and rayment let us therewith be content So Having all things necessary for faith to salvation let us use these well and b● content not affecting to be loaden with a multitudo of humane devises which Prelaticall Councels Courts and Canons put upon us And are Generall Councels so Cheape as that you should keep such a doe having no Necessaries to trouble them withall But it seems you have some other necessaries besides those of faith that will require a Generall Councel For you tell us pag 211. The setling of the Divisions of Christendome as the reconciling of England with Rome the making of Canons which must bind a●l particular Christians and Churches cannot be concluded 〈…〉 but there to wit in a Generall Councel Why but there For the Church of England you may doe what you please onely you desire perhaps a Generall Councel to conclude for Altars and other utensils and so ease your shoulders of the envy and crime of Innovation but for that also you have a sufficient put off as is shewed before But the reconciliation and setling of the Divisions of Christendome will conclude all But still the Scripture with you is not alone sufficient for necessary faith to salvation without the Creed and at least the 4 first Generall Councels Why was the Scripture before there were any either Creeds or Councels And was not the Scripture then alone sufficient for all things necessary to salvation The Creeds and Councels are not to be added to the Scripture as if without them it were not an absolute and compleat Rule As for the Creeds they were for the summe and substance of them extracted from Scripture and must still be reduced to Scripture for their true sense and interpretation as before And for the Decrees of the 4 Generall Councels we approve of them no further then the Scripture warrants them And therfore though Twelfthly you humbly submit to the Scripture as it is interpreted by the Primitive Church and Generall Councels and not els yet we submit our faith onely to the Scripture as it is interpreted by it selfe and by the spirit of Christ speaking and breathing in it which by the Scripture interprets the Scripture unto us as Augustine doth well observe in his Second Book de Doctrina Christiana And herein you shew your faith not to be Divine but humane as which you submit not meerly to the Scripture but unto the Iudgment of men as
let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity Loe here be two things joyned together which must not be parted 1. The Lord knoweth who are his here 's Gods foundation layd in his Eternall Counsell and Purpose according to that of the Apostle O'ùs proégno Whom he foreknew not foresaw he preaestinated to be conformed to the Image of his Son c. Here 's Gods foundation that stands sure and hath this seale The Lord knoweth who are his Now they that are Christs do so hold this foundation as that they are firmly built upon it which is properly to hold the Foundation For if a house stand not upon the foundation how can it be said to hold the foundation Now how come we to know whether a man doe thus truly hold the foundation Christ or no Why if he be built upon this Foundation And what is it to be built upon this Foundation The Apostle tells us which is the second part of this seale that settles us upon this Foundation And let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity Now to name the Name of Christ is not to professe Christ as nominall Christians as Papists doe To apply this then to your hopefull Papist or Christian Romanist He names the name of Christ he professeth Christ. Thus say you he holds the Foundation Christ. No say I No saith the Apostle For being a Roman-Christian he professeth he practiseth he liveth in the Religion and faith of Rome to wit Popery and this Pop●ry is iniquity yea the very Mystery of Iniquity and the Religion of the Whore of Babylon whose golden Cup of Christian Profession is full of abominations and spirituall fornications This being iniquity he that holds the foundation Christ must depart from it Or els for all his naming the Name of Christ he holds not the foundation of God nor doth God know or acknowledge that man to be one of his he is not sealed And therfore your hope of such that are thus purblind seeing their errour but not departing from it is as vaine as your charity towards those that are stone-blind And you adde Hold the Foundation and live accordingly That is have the bare name of a Christian and live and dye a Papist which to doe you must needs confesse cannot stand with the possibility of Salvation And then what becomes of your hope For how can holding the foundation and living accordingly stand with the profession and practise Faith and Religion of Popery And know ye not That not every one that saith Lord Lord shall enter into the Kingdome of heaven but he saith Christ that Doth the will of my Father which is in heaven And what is that will That every one that nameth the Name of Christ depart from Iniquity What Iniquity All Iniquity But what is iniquity All iniquity is either morall or spirituall Morall iniquity is all that which is a breach of any of the Commandements of the second Table as murther Adultery theft falsewitnesse covetousnesse lust dis●bedience to Parents and lawfull Governours in lawfull things and the like Spirituall iniquity is such as is against the Commandements of the first Table as Infidelity hatred of the Truth Idolatry as in the worship of Images will-worship superstition in Gods worship taking of Gods name in vaine in professing Christ and obeying Antichrist profanation of the Lords Sabbath day c. Now all such iniquity both morall and spirituall even all such spirituall wickednesses in high places a true Christian must not onely wrestle against but depart and flee from Otherwise though he shall say to Christ in that day Lord Lord H●ve we not prophecied in thy Name and in thy Name have cast out Devils and in thy Name have done many wonderfull works as perhaps the Mountebank Friers and Priests will say of their lying wonders the marks of Antichrist Loe here all in Christs name no lesse yet Christ will professe unto them I never knew you depart from me ye workers of iniquity Thus Christ professeth he knows not those that onely professe him So as whatever Papists may boast of or pretend and professe that they are Catholicks that they are Christians that they hold the Creed and live a Religious life as their Ghostly Fathers teach them as we noted before yet living and dying Papists Christ shall certainly say unto them all aswell the starke blind as the purblind and aswell both these as the knowing men of Rome Depart from me all ye workers of Iniquity ye Idolaters ye Infidels ye Antichristians ye Hypocrites ye blind and ignorant I never knew you And you adde They hazzard themselves extremely by keeping so closse to that which is superstition and in the case of Images comes too neare to Idolatry Thus I perceive you will not rayse up your voyce one note higher then to superstition or at the most too ●eare Idolatry Not Idolatry outright onely bordering closse upon it too neare it God wote as Purgatory is too neare hell onely a Wainscot between and how soon burnt down and long ere now with so hot a fire on both sides so as 't is to be more then feared Purgatory and Hell by this time are become both one and so while your too neare Borderers upon Idolatry your worshipers of Images might hope to find some cold comfort when they should be in their hot Purgatory that by the vertue of a few Masses they may quickly be dispatched thence they find now such a confusion and mixture of Hell and Purgatory that they cannot find the way out And so neare Idolatry is your case of Images that it is not possible for the subtilest Schoolman to distinguish between them such is their not onely contiguity but continuity the Scripture calling an Image an Idol cídolon being in the Grammaticall and common construction an Image and in the Ecclesiasticall use of the Word any Image or Representation which men have devised to set up for a Religious use as in or by it to worship God or Saint And we have shewed before that if the Heathen in the worship of ther Images were Idolaters then how much more the Papists which both in their Doctrine and Practise do farre outstrippe the Heathen Nor in the case of Images alone are Papists most grosse and desperate Idolaters but also in the worship of their breaden God and in their worship of Angels and Invocation of Saints making them so many Gods as also the Crosse it selfe which they both invocate and worship with Latria which they call divine worship as before L. p. 302. Worth once mislead is of all other the greatest misleader P. And who of more worth in the account of some in the world then your Lordship If then this worth be misled as your Charity and Hope of misled Papists it becomes of all other the greatest misleader For this worth is become the greatest misleader both of Papists and Protestants both of the
whatsoever faith is requisite and necessary to salvation as the beliefe of Scripture to be the word of God as is shewed before And this saving faith is the faith of all them that are heires of salvation to wit of all Gods Elect and all the Saints But it seems with Father Bellarmine you have an Implicit faith for your ignorants and an Explicit for you that are great Clerks or the letter of the Creed for those and the sense for these But I handled this also before Onely you propound a Paradox which is no worke for your pen wherein you are the wiser not to take upon you to read or expound such riddles had you been so wise as not to have propounded ● And yet it is the worke of every good Minister of Chr●●t to teach the people what to beleeve and to exhort them to grow in Grace and knowledge and Faith and so declare unto them the whole Coun●el of God and to keep nothing backe and to build men up in knowledge more and more unto perfection As the Preacher saith Because the Preacher was wise he still taught the people knowledge yea he gave good heed and sought out and set in Order many Proverbs The Preacher sought to find out acceptable words and that which was written was upright even words of truth The words of the wise are a● Goads and Nayles fastened by the Masters of Assemblies which are given from one shepheard But this is not a patterne for you to follow neither by your tongue nor pen. You have other imployment for them But though we cannot set a bound to faith in respect of perfection of degrees yet we ought to teach the people all the parts of saving faith and knowledge striving unto perfection And besides it is the duty of every good Minister of Christ to limit and set bounds to all the negatives of faith in discovering all manner of sins and errours which are all contrary and enemies to faith and salvation For which end they must open all the ten Commandements as Christ did Mat. 5. and all other points of saving Doctrine in the Scriptures Now though you have not the skill or will to set bounds how farre men shall beleeve yet you want no will nor power to inhibit and restraine Preachers shewing them how little a way they must goe in teaching the people and so consequently how little a way the people must goe in beleeving and saving knowledge as in restraining and forbidding to preach the Doctrines of Grace as before forbidding Lectures and especially all Sermon● on the Lords day afternoon forbidding long Preaching at any time forbidding expounding of the Catethisme as many of your Prelates doe and the like Thus you can finely set men bounds how little thy shall beleeve or know of God to their salvation That 's a worke if not for your pen or hand yet for your head and not unlikely of your hand and pen too L. p. 327. The Romanists dare not beleeve but as the Roman Church beleeves And the Roman Church at this day doth not beleeve the Scripture and the Creeds in the sense in the which the ancient Primitive Church received them P Dare they not How then say you there is possibility of salvation in the Roman Church for any when it condemneth and accurseth saving faith and justification thereby with other saving truths For if the Papists dare not beleeve but as their Church beleeves then they are bound to good behaviour they dare not beleeve to their salvation And if they dare not beleeve to their salvation then they cannot be saved And if they cannot be saved what possibility of salvation for them living and dying in that faith And here Why do you no● say in the sense of the Scriptures themselves and not of the Primitive Church But you doe not like the Scripture sense except the Church interpret it You allow not Scriptures to speake for or testifie for themselves You are the same man still And as we sayd before you doe wisely in that to stoppe the mouth of Scripture as Ahab did Michaiahs for it never speaks good of you but evil alwayes L. p. 232. I will acknowledge every fundamentall point of faith as proveable out of the Canon as we account it as if the Apochryphall were added unto it P. As if Apocryphalls were any divine proofe at all of the fundamentall points of faith in Scripture or ought any way in that respect to be so much as named with the Scripture Apocryphalls saith Ierome may be read for instruction of manners but not for confirmation of faith as before L. p. 336. I have lived and shall God-willing dye in that faith of Christ as it was professed in the ancient Primitive Church and as it is professed in the present Church of England P. As you handle the matter ther 's a vast difference between the faith of Christ professed in the ancient Primitive Church and that which is now professed in the present Church of England For the Ancient Primitive Church taken properly and strictly as somtime in your Booke as before you put it was that wherein the Apostles lived Now will ye be tryed by the Ancient Primitive Church of the Apostles held and professed What say you my Lord for your faith in this case Will you put your faith and Religion to the tryall of the most intire and upright J●ry the Twelve Apostles Certainly if you decline this tryall 't is a shrewd suspicion that the faith of yours wherein you are so resolute to live and dye is not right Therfore for shame of the world you must at least professe or pretend that you wil be tryed by the the Faith and Religion which the Apostles and the true Church of God in their time as being the most Pure Prime Ancient Primitive Church held and professed First then That Primitive Church neither held nor professed nor practised any Hierarchicall government of Prelates or Bishops but have c●ndemned it in their writings the Scriptures of the New Testament And yet I are say you resolve to live and dye Primate of Canterbury and Metropolitan of all England Secondly The Apostles and the ancient Primitive Church in their Age and time had no Altars but onely the Lord Iesus Christ Heb. 13.10 as it is formerly proved but you and your Church of England both set up and worship Altars and ●each the people both by your Books and practise to do so too and force Ministers to erect Altars or force them out of their Churches And this Faith and Religion also I dare say you resolve to live and dye in Thirdly The Apostles and the ancici●nt Primiti●e Church in their time celebrated and sanctified every Lords day in holy duties onely and in preaching as well in the afternoon as in the f●●enoon never forbidding but still exhorting to preach in season and out of season giving no liberty to vaine and profane sports and Pastimes either upon