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A96888 A dialogue, arguing that arch-bishops, bishops, curates, neuters, are to be cut-off by the law of God; therefore all these, with their service, are to be castout by the law of the land. Notwithstanding, the world pleads for their own, why some bishops should be spared; the government maintained; the name had in honour still; but the word of God is cleare against all this, for the casting-of-all-forth. The great question is, which way of government now? For two wayes are contended for, The Presbyteriall and Independent: something is said to both these wayes: but we have a sure word for it, that these two wayes are but in shew two, and will assuredly meet in one. Neuters are shewen openly here, and the curse of God upon them. Presented to the Assembly of Divines. Woodward, Ezekias, 1590-1675. 1644 (1644) Wing W3486A; Thomason E34_10; ESTC R22862 54,646 56

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slave to his Masters lusts and his own The Priest hastened his Masters destruction for he did according 2 Kings 16. 16. to all that King A●az Commanded I have read the Records What is the result from thence You must tell us for from the premisses you have drawne the Conclu●ion I pray you what is it A. That I● it be now as in ancient dayes it has been then the Bishop is the Witch the Sorcerer he is the cun●ing Artist he turnes all up-side downe he has turned the King and people from the faith B. There is no new thing under the Sun What was now is like Priests like people Brutish Priests brutish people And now sith you have answered mee so clearely to this I le aske you no more questions I will not aske you whether the Bishops endeavoured onely To defile the house of GOD and the services there Not whether they set-up their Thresholds by Gods Thresholds * Ezech. 43. 8. Adhibendo traditiones suas ad praecepta mea Jun. Not whether they thrust GOD out of His House and His servants out of their houses and Gods House also Not whether they have thrust His servants into corners and out of the Land Not whether they have used Gods precious ones villanously All this is as cleare to all the Christian world as is the noone day And indeed you have yeelded to all this when you granted what you could not deny That the Bishops set-up Altars and made gods Will the GOD of gods endure this To be mated in His owne house with gods of mans owne making Surely surely This is enough to cause the LORD to measure us as He did Judah and Israel or to relate unto Times nearer hand to streteh over this Land also the line of Germany and the Plummet of the Palatinate-house To cause the Land to be wiped 2 King 21. 13. as a man wipeth a dish wiping it and turning it upside-downe Enough and enough so much as a man can doe and was in his power To make all the Inhabitants of the Land Papists and Atheists all Setting-up Altars and making of gods has don all this O wonderfull That all this has been don here before the face of His Holinesse and yet He has spared He has not meated out unto us as unto other Lands He has not wiped the Land yet as a maid wipeth a dish He has not made our Land Hormah * Numb 21. 3. utter Destruction or Anathema a curse Not yet Though these abominations are found here And yet behold ● greater Abomination than has been shewen hitherto which I shall not declare here A. I pray you let us heare all declare what you can declare shew me ●●d the world that other Abomination B. You must spare mee and your selfe that trouble Indeed I can say nothing touching the Bishops example that is the abomination my words cannot reach unto it how provoaking how defiling how corrupting how spreading No leprosie so infecting so destroying This how cannot be expressed A Bishops Example A Bishop and set-up Altars A Bishop and make gods Ah LORD how many thousand thousand soules has a Bishops example Destroyed He has by his abominable Doctrines as wee heard he has thrust away King and people from the worship of their GOD By his example he has commanded a Persuadet lingua jubet vita Athan. forced b Gal. 2. 14 Cogi eos dicit qui exemp●o Petri Judaizabant Jun. compelled King and people to serve other gods I can say nothing touching this Abomination I confesse it is hard to forbeare but I doe forbeare for your sake That you may now take the more scope and libertie to say what you have to say for Arch-bishops and Bishops Their government their office their Name Come gird up your loynes and speake like a man What say you A. Truly I have much to say yet nothing at all against that you have spoken from the word of God and Judgement from His mouth upon the Bishops I can yeeld unto your hearts desire That our two Arch-bishops ought to be thrust-out Nay more That those two I ever except a third The Primate of Ireland ought to be hanged-up by the necks for wee know what one has don and it is as legible what the other does he fights stoutly for the Pope his Lord I could yeeld you-up some of the Bishops too to the Justice of the Law to be hanged by the neck or rosted in the fire I could yeeld you up our Wren c. But to tell you what grieveth mee I cannot endure to heare all the Bishops jumbled together like Chest-men in a bagg honest men and together Two Metropolitan Bishops one Primate together Great men and mean men together vile men and precious men together you have made no distinction I professe unto you you have so confounded the persons that I cannot finde out the Primate of Ireland nor difference him from another Bishop now he is in Oxford where all the Bishops are or where all their hearts are You have made such a mingle-mangle one with another that I cannot single-out Bishop Wren that vile man from Bishop Hall that precious man You have as I said at first jumbled them together like Chest-men in a bagg You should have considered how soundly some of them have preached but some some not at all very few oftener than once a yeare and then not soundly neither what good bookes they have written And touching the Ceremonies how cleare they are for the innocency of the same All this you should have considered and not have jumbled them all together Indeed I am grieved that you cannot distinguish better B. Truly I would grieve no honest man and I hope to cleare my words so unto you That they shall be no griefe to your heart You say I have jumbled the Bishops all together like Chest-men in a bagge I le answer you to that first and grant so I have done and purposely I have done it for mightie reason for so they jumbled the dayes of the weeke the seventh Day with the six dayes they made no difference no distinction at all Destinction No They marred their Lords day more than any Day I grant you they have don some good workes So did Alexander the Great greater workes than they But Alexander killed his deare friend Calisthenes Him who dearly loved Alexander and the King both and ever after that when it was alledged for the honour of Alexander That he had don such and such great things It was checked with this He did so indeed but he killed his true and honest friend Calisthenes he killed him And that darkened all his glory to his dying day So when it is said The Bishops some few of them have written good bookes Yes but they have polluted the Lords Day which if there were no more is enough to stain their glory while the world stands But there is more Have they the best of them
had they but a common light and never heard of the Lord Jesus Christ not a word I say not sayes he Where shall the wicked appeare But where shall the Gospellers appeare Who have been lifted-up to heaven by the means of grace yet were their conversation low and earth-ward how low will their fall be A consideration if put home to every mans heart will throw fire and brimstone in thither for present That he may escape it for the time to come and for ever Let us consider What good things wee have how wee have improoued them not what wee want and would have but how wanting wee are to what wee have I have don Prefacing Wee must heare now what God sayes and would have don Then wee will heare what man can say God will be heard first A DIALOGVE ARGVING That Arch-Bishops Bishops Curates Neuters All these are to be cut off by the Law of GOD therefore to be cast-out by the Law of the Land THey that have don the same abominations for the committing whereof their fathers and brethren in former ages have been by the law of God cut off from the earth These ought by the law of man to be Cast-out of the Land The Arch-bishops and Bishops have committed these abominations for which others in ancient times have suffered death Therefore these ought to be throwne-out of the Land by the Law of the Land A. I deny that the Bishops have committed such abominations B. They have committed the same abomination I will instance in particulars against the Day of Gods worship which one man having committed was by the command of God cut off from the earth Numb 15 35 A. I am not so slenderly read but I know whom you mean by that one man him that gathered sticks upon the Sabbath and was by the command of God put to death for so doing But you can never prove that the Arch-bishops and Bishops gathered sticks upon the Lords day neither their graces nor their Lordships would stoop so low I am confident of that And as confident I am that they did not commit the same Abomination B. Your confidence will deceive you and you must forsake it The Bishops have committed the same abomination with an higher hand and a more open face I say the same in your sense First 1 They commanded Rushes to be gathered against the Lords day And when the people should be preparing themselves to their solemne addresse before the Lord they were commanded to bestrew the Chappell with Rushes A service not worth a rush but a notorious dis-service to the Church and scorne to the Lord of the day But the Bishops would shew their power 2 The same in your sense and understanding The Bishops commanded the people to gather flowers therewith to plat a garland and to set it upon a May-pole To the intent the people might upon the Lords day dance about it with more chearfulnesse O yee heavens be ashonished at this Never the like dishonour to the Lord Christ since their forefathers platted a crown of Thornes for his head But I go on 3 The same in our sense and true construction For you must not conceive that the man was stoned for gathering sticks there was more in it then a bare action there was a malignancy in it As his need might have required he might have gathered sticks and kindled them upon the Sabbath day too and have given a good account for so doing As a more toylesome work might have been don and is don upon the Lords day then is strewing of Rushes But there must be a command for doing it if not from GODS mouth yet from mans necessitie that has a command If you observe the Context this one man did presumptuously he needed a fire no more then others of his brethren yet he would presume above all he would try the Patience of the Lord and in so doing he reproached the Lord sayes the Text his action was presumptuous a reproaching Ver. 30. of the Lord. The Arch-bishops and Bishops did the same abomination The same They did more presumptuously They did reproach the Lord never any from the beginning of the world to that day did so presumptuously as they did never did any of the Heathen so reproach their gods which yet were no gods as these have reproached the God of gods and Lord of Lords and so have been an inlet to that fire which now rageth in the Land They have been a means I would take no man off from communing with his owne heart and enquiring how willing he was to have it so They have been a means to make our Land a Tabherah Because of the fire of the Lord amongst us a Numb 11. 3. I demand then Is the Law of the LORD cleare for the cutting-off these men A. Yes those that have committed that abomination but all the Bishops have not don so B. You shall have free libertie to speake-out and what you have to say for them anon This is to our purpose now That the Law was clea●e for the cutting off that one man muoh more for the cutting off these men who were guides unto others had a clearer light than he had did more presumptuously more reproached the Lord than he did The clearer the light the clearer the Judgement And the clearer God● Law is against them for the cutting of them off the clearer the Law of the Land is against them for the casting of them forth A. But you have charged this upon the King B. Not I The King of Kings has charged this blaspemy has laid this burden upon the Kings shoulders yet so as it is not a graine the lighter upon the Bishops shoulders It is charged upon the King decreing that blasphemous decree upon the Bishops prescribing the same Upon the King as chiefe Author Upon the Bishops as Instruments Woe Isa 10. 1. Vae auctoribus maleficiorum tum etiam administris Wo to the Authors of wicked decrees and to the Ministers executing the same Isa 10. 1● Trem. Isa 10. 3. Jer. 13. 1● Act. 9. 26. unto both sayes the LORD And what will you doe in the day of visitation and in the day of desolation to whom will they flee for helpe They have defiled their Sanctuary polluted their Lords day reproached the LORD of the Day Say unto the King and to his Bishops Humble your selves sit downe for your principalities shall come downe even the Crowne of your glory And untill the King chiefe in the trespasse shall say so much to his own soule and not onely say it but be indeed and in truth humbled for it giving cleare demonstrations thereof in all the peoples sight till he sayes so and does so humble himselfe his good people will be as jealous of him as afraid of him joyning with his Parliament as the Disciples were of Paul when he would joyne himselfe with them They were all afraid of him and beleeved not that he was a Disciple This