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A13877 An ansvvere to a supplicatorie epistle, of G.T. for the pretended Catholiques written to the right Honorable Lords of her Maiesties priuy Councell. By VVater [sic] Trauers, minister of the worde of God. Travers, Walter, 1547 or 8-1635. 1583 (1583) STC 24180.7; ESTC S118501 163,528 396

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that were present whose eyes the Lorde had vouchsafed to open to see the truthe and whosoeuer shall yet reade it to this daie maie easily see that the sheilde of faithe was their defence that thei fought valiauntly with the sworde of the spirite to the confusion of those that stroue againste theim And though their bodies were vsed afterward at the pleasure of their aduersaries hauyng no regard of their callyng no reuerence of their learnyng no respecte of their age yet after the example of Samson and the true Samson Christ Iesus by death thei obtained victorie against theim In the beginnyng of the happie raigne of her Maiestie now sittyng in the Royall seate of her Fathers their Bishoppes and greatest Clerkes were prouoked and appoincted by aucthoritie to dispute if thei were able to maintain their doctrine with suche ministers of the Gospell as were called to deale with them in it Which action as it appeareth by the storie and testimonie of many that were present at it was so fōdly and ridiculously handled on the parte of the greatest Pillers of their pretended Catholike Churche that al men maruell that the memorie of the confusion and shame of that daie doeth not with hold them once to moue the matter of disputatiō with vs. For after a little impertinent speeche thei gaue ouer their cause in the plain field But thei saie he that runneth awaie maie fight againe and so peraduenture these men haue now gotten more harte of grace then thei had before or els these Romistes and Remistes thinke peraduenture their Bishops were vnlearned but that thei in so many yeres trauell and study abroad haue better furnished theim selues for the battaill But their weakenesse was notably discouered in their greate Champion and Father Iesuite who offeryng defiaunce with Goliah to the hoste of Israell as if the staffe of his Speare had been as a Weauers beame he was bolde to caste vs his Gloue and throw vs his Gauntlet to prouoke vs to fight with hym boastyng to maintaine his cause by Scripture Councells Fathers by all Lawes Common Ciuill and Canon and all Stories A man would thinke suche a Chāpion had been able to haue doen great matters but whē he was after encountred with his glorie was tourned to shame and the Diuinitie he boasted of was founde to bee but certaine of the boldest and moste vnreasonable asseuerations of the fondest and moste absurde distinctions that euer were heard of wherby he supposed to haue been well armed againste all obiections For a taste whereof I offer the gentle Reader some fewe whiche I heard beeyng present at the disputation In the matters of iustification of faithe onely whereas he had falsly and slanderously charged vs of late to haue brought into the Church this new doctrine of iustification by faith onely and that there were places cited out of the Fathers Greeke and Latin who liued aboue 1000. yeares agoe expresly hauyng these words that faithe onely iustifieth He aunswered that it was to bee vnderstoode of the vngodly wherein hauyng confessed a truthe for so the Apostle saieth that God iustifieth the vngodly by faithe that is holdeth hym godly in Christ in whom he beleeueth who in himself is vngodly by suggestiō of his companion he fought againe to ouerthrowe that he had saied by a fond distinction of two iustifications a thyng meerely deuised in the braine of man For who euer read in the Scriptures that a man is iustified before God any more then once but that thei whō GOD had once reputed for iust he holdeth them so for euer Otherwise the reason of the Apostles iustification by faithe were nothyng if the Iewes might haue aunswered thus that when he was first conuerted from Idolatrie Abraham was in deede iustified by faithe onely but after he was circumcised and had offered vp his sonne he was iustified againe and that was by his workes but this was a fancy not once dreamed of by them Therefore the Apostle taketh it for a grounde that beyng once iustified by faith onely he was alwaies iustified before God by faithe alone An other folly of a suche like distinction was ioyned with this that onely in the Fathers alleadged shatteth out onely the workes goyng before his faith whereby he forgat that he ouerthrewe their workes of congruitie whiche thei pretende to confirme out of Cornelius exāple but not the grace giuen together with faith whiche is hope and charitie whiche aunswere is as flat contrarie to the doctrine of the Apostle as darkenesse is to light For if Abraham were iustified by faithe hope and charitie then was he not iustified without the woorkes of the lawe for hope and charitie are workes of the lawe It is contrarie also to their owne doctrine for if the first iustification be by faithe hope and charitie what second iustification can there be or what other thyng will thei require besides faithe hope and charitie to iustifie with a seconde iustification This seconde iustification he would haue confirmed by the helpe of their vulgare Latine translation whiche hath Qui iustus est iustificetur adhuc but very corruptly for the Greeke is he that doeth iustice let him doe iustice stil as if he should saie he that doth well let hym doe well still and he that doeth ill lett hym doe ill still whiche is as farre from the question of iustification as the East is from the West In the question of transubstanciation to the place of Ireneus that there is a spirituall thyng in the Sacrament and also a materiall whiche he expresly speaketh of the very substaunce of bread His aunswere was that the materiall thing was the accidentes that appeared the whitenesse lightnesse roundnesse c. To Oregen affirmyng that whiche is receiued at the mouthe to goe to the stomacke and to nourishe the bodie and to bee cast into the draught His aunswere was that the accidentes doe nourishe and that the accidentes are voyded Contrary to all lawe and order of nature whiche God hath appointed For it is no more possible that accidents being not in any substance should nourishe as it is that darkenesse should at the same tyme bee bothe darkenesse and light To Theodor affirmyng the nature and substaunce of the bread to remaine He aunswered that Theodor vnderstoode it of the substaunce of the accidentes and a generall substaunce whereby an accident hath a beyng and not of the speciall substaunce of bread whereas it is as cleare as the daie at noone that Theodor meant plainly that the very substaunce of the bread remaineth still in the speciall substaunce of breade and is not altered otherwise then in the vse whereto it is applied that is that beyng naturally appoincted of GOD for the feedyng of the bodie it hath hereby the institution of that Sacrament a heauenly vse whiche is to feede our soules A nomber of these fonde and vnreasonable absurde and vnlearned distinctiōs of his I could alledge but thei are now at large reported and published to