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A48937 Quakerism no paganism: or, A friendly reply to W.R. his unfriendly discourse intituled, Quakerism is paganism Shewing the insufficiency of what he hath written to unchristian the Quakers, and to render them as heathens and pagans to the people By W.L. a lover of peace more than of parties. Loddington, William, 1626?-1711. 1674 (1674) Wing L2805; ESTC R216893 25,726 71

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left out NOT in the 7th Commandment How should he know it was false Printed supposing he could have no other to correct it by Must not the Spirit or Light within be minded in such Cases Yea or the Man 's undone But a little more to this Charge wherein I said there is no great danger because it 's stated so in general that it may admit of good or bad particular Applications And for proof I shewed several particular Commands from God to others which did not concern any man now And several which concerned every man Neither did I ever hear a Quaker say That not any one of the Commands in Scripture concern them though W. R. saith it 's manifest they say so p. 47. If T. H. had told us what particular Commands they deny'd the work had been more easie and plain to reconcile But I observe all the Charges against the Quakers concerning the Scriptures run in a general way I wish it be not to stop the mouths of all others from speaking a word in their behalf I am sure it is not fair Had they been charged with owning Childrens Baptism perhaps some Presbyterian might have put in a word for them Had they been charged with denying Tithes some Baptist might have helped them before now If for denying Laying Hands upon all to be fundamentally necessary to Church Fellowship it 's probable J. I. himself might have assisted them in this or in opposing the Saterday Sabbath or in maintaining their Doctrine of General Redemption But now they being accused for denying Scripture for their Rule all we which profess the Scripture to be our Rule though we are divided into SIX several Churches and all differing so much in Doctrine and Discipline that we do not own one another as true constituted Churches yet we are all stirr'd up by this general Charge of denying Scripture and Gods Commands to fall upon them And if the Quakers were all supprest or banisht whose turn of all the Six would be next I know not but of this I am confident That the same Spirit which thus persues them will not let others be quiet when they are gone Strange that we cannot make better use of our time But W. R. puts some more Queries to me also under this Charge about the Scriptures How they can know swearing to be a sin or how they can try Spirits without them To both which there hath been enough said at least to beget Moderation if not Satisfaction by VV. P. in page 96. of Wisdome Justified c. And in his Rejoynder in defence of Quakerism a new nick Name c. the first part of it being almost all about the Scriptures The Eighth Charge That Justification by that Righteousness which Christ fulfilled for us wholly without us is it Doctrine of Devils To moderate this Charge I offered two things to be considered 1. The Greek word which generally in the New Testam serves for Justification and Righteousness which are both Latin words themselves in English habit and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 serving for both I said that to be justified was all one in my understanding as to be made Just or Righteous And this W. R. himself confirms out of Mr. Leighs Critica Sacra for he saith The word must be understood to respect that Integrity Holyness and Innocency of the Souls of Good men by which they live a holy Life and please God which in substance is what I said before and W. P. before both of us viz. to be made Just or Righteous But saith W. R. this cannot be done without their persons be first acquitted of their former Sins by the Justification they receive from Christ through believing which in plainer English is all one as to say This cannot be done before it be done In the next place W. R. falls to distinguishing between a Legal Righteousness an Evangelical Righteousness and thirdly a Righteousness which Christ fulfilled for us in his own Person wholly without us The first he saith is a perfect Obedience to all God requires at all times both in thought word and deed But where this is called a Legal Righteousness I know not I think the Gospel requires as perfect obedience as the Law and more strict as in Mat. 5. But Secondly W. R. 's Evangelical Righteousness is only a sincere endeavour of the Soul to do all that God requires although by reason of the pravity of his Nature he cannot uttain it Is not this plainly to say that God requires us now under the Gospel to do that which he knows we cannot do This made the Slothful Servant say Mat. 25. that he was an hard Master But Thirdly he has distinguished out another Righteousness which Christ fulfilled for us which it seems cannot properly be called Legal or Evangelical But what he means by all this I know not unless he would bring us to expect to be justified by such a Faith as is without works and that I hope he will disown and if so all these Distinctions will vanish of themselves and that I believe they do as fast as they are Preached being so intricate and hard to be understood that I know not how any man can tell how to regulate his Faith or Life according to them The Second thing I propounded to moderate this Charge was these words wholly without us which I said might very well satisfie us that the Quakers levelled not at Scripture Justification but at our conceits of it of which I see W. R. takes no notice And no doubt he saw cause for it For wholly without us must either in this point of Justification signifie wholly without our Faith or wholly without our works or wholly without both And where the Scriptures account any one a justified Person wholly without both or either of these I know not But for as much as W. P. hath already treated so largely upon the Doctrine of Justification in his 8th Chapter of the said Rejoynder I do hereby desire William Russel to go thither to satifie himself about their Faith in that matter As I told him at first I intend not a Dispute much less a Quarrel about words if any thing I have said will but put the least stop to Carears of that Nature I have all the Reward I look for The Ninth Charge is That Justification is by Works This I said is almost yea I might have said altogether of the same nature as the former And it 's a great deal of pity to Heathenize men for Preaching up good works especially in an Age when they are so scarce To which W. R. _____ replies Rarely well guest Is T. H. finding fault for Preaching up good works But W. R. might not I have said the same to T. H. his 4th Charge That Christ Redeemed himself Rarely well guest was that ever the Question did the Quakers ever say so in terminis much less in T. H. his sence but I like none of this upbraiding braving Language Certain it