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A11528 A trewe mirrour or glase wherin we maye beholde the wofull state of thys our realme of Englande set forth in a dialogue or communicacion betwene Eusebius and Theophilus. Saunders, Laurence, d. 1555, attributed author. 1556 (1556) STC 21777; ESTC S100967 20,497 40

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doe you speake as you thinke or els Iest ye with me to see what I wil say T. Nay I speake it with my heart as truly as God lyueth E. Then haue I heard fouell lyes among them that would be accounted honest and wel learned But seing we haue entred so farre in the matter I praye you certyfye me of the truth in this point whether it be so or no that I be not deceaued therin for the satisfying of my conscyence and for quieting the same for as for me although I be not of the new learning yet am I not so addicted to the olde but that I would be glad to here and reason the matter to th ende I promyse you I mought helpe to bring loue amonges our selues T. A godly purpose I assure you but what are those lyes then ye heard of late I praye you let vs heare them E. Nay soft I sayd not precysely they were lyes but if that be trew which you say then are they lies in dede but say on I pray you what was that true tale then E. Syr thys it was tolde me that you of this new learnyng dyd boast your selues much of fayth and that onely fayth dyd iustifie but good workes ye cared not for neyther regarded at all neyther prayer nor fastyng nor almes dede wil ye allow goddes seruice ye despyse and the ministers therof with a thousande lyke I cannot wel remember all nowe T I durst lay a wager before hande that thys also was a Priestes tale E. Now surelye it was so in dede what a Goddes name howe are you so wel acquaynted with Priestes tales T. Yes I know them wel and theyr master also but brother Eusebius thys is no straunge thynge for there is no sermō almost in these daies but these tales bee in the pulpet as thicke as hoppes and many lies more to the which whē I heare it maketh my hearte mourne to see their spyte that they haue no other way to worke their anger vpō vs but with opē lies in an opē audience and yet the shame would redounde to themselues if there were any shame in them For the moste parte of men doe knowe most certenly that they doe lye If they were of god as they pretende or if they meant the preseruacion of a commō wealth and safegarde of their countrye they woulde vse another waye of perswasion they woulde haue charitie before theyr eyes they would consider the nature of euery man by themselues and doe as they woulde bee done vnto and I praye you who can suffer hymselfe to be complained of to a whole countrye and to heare false wytnesse broughte agaynste hym and by thys meanes broughte to loue no no this is not to wynne theyr brethren but euer to prouoke myscheffe and to set men by the eares God be merciful vnto vs the pulpet was ordained to speake trueth to preache peace and to bryng vnitie among the brethren And nowe they haue made it a place to sprede lyes to sowe discorde and to sette mens hartes on fyer with enuy and malice I am righte wel assured that if men would deny it that the stones of the strete would witnes that the preachers in Kyng Edwardes tyme cried out vpon the sinnes of men and thretned the most extreme damnation if they repented not and turned not to the Lord in amēdement of lyffe and shewed them also a forehand what would come of oure wicked liuing which thinges are come to passe and therfore dyd continually exhort them to repentaunce with the niniuites and to call vpon the name of the lyuing god in fastyng and sackecloth mourning and weping for the day of gods wrath was at hand as we haue right wel felte and are like to feale more yet This was not one mans preaching alone but al for the most part and thys I say If men wil deny the stones of the strete wil witnes the same And yet al thys not wythstandyng come they into the pulpets and saye these newe felowes woulde haue no good workes neyther fastyng nor prayer but al libertie libertie faith fayth and nothing els Oh God what Christen hearte dooeth not euen breake with sorow to se such slaunderers maintained in a pulpet But god is a righteous lord and for that we would not be warned in tyme being so much called vpō he hath iustly placed vs with pacience therfore we must beare the crosse til it please him to take it of agayne there is no remedy for if we once opē our mouthes to reasō the matter with thē in this case we must say the crow is whyte or els we goe to the fyer wtout redempcion thys is a miserable case E. Ye make me astonyed Theophilus For howe may it be that they should vse the matter so cruellye if there were not some great cause T. I wil tell you Eusebius I haue heard the preachers in Kyng Edwardes time a mūber of thē And haue red their workes and if euer I found one sentence that I can remember that did discourage ani mā not rather spurre forth euery mā to the doing of those good workes aboue rehersed let god forsake me show me no more his fauour grace For although we do attrybute our iustificacion to onely fayth and that by faith only we be iustified we meane not a dead faith wtoute workes but a liuing fayth euen the same fayth sainct Paul speaketh of to the Galathians Gala. 5. which by loue is mightie in operacyon as the tree therefore is knowen to be liuing by hys budding bearing of frute so is the iustifiyng fayth knowen by charitie out of which charitie sprīgeth these good workes aboue said which are the very frutes therof But your Catholyke fathers showe but litell or no charitye and therfore it should seme they haue but lytell or no fayth Eusebius your reason is somewhat pithye but yet I suppose there is somewhat els that moueth thys great contrauersy T. In dede it is trewe there is another thyng that moueth the matter and that is the deuil the authour maintayner of contencion and mischefe in submittyng our selues where vnto we lose innocency loue mekenes al other vertues and in stede therof we fynd pryde stoutenes hatred and such like as for coueteousnes it ouer floweth the whole world Eusebius But wil ye geue me leue brother Theophilus to say one thyng vnto you although I know you to be such a man for youre honesty as I would desier to leade my life wtal for your faithful trew heart is knowen to thē wyth whō you haue to doe that which thing chefely I haue respect vnto and I doe beleue that god hath engrafted his grace in the mans hart which dealeth iustly with men liueth quietly amōg his familiars specially when it is wel knowen that he wisheth al thinges to be wel But yet ye shal not be offended with me for that I wil say there were of your sort which are called
to oxforde thys the frydaye and the saterdaye folowyng were the .iii. prysoners called forth before them and appointed to dispute the monday tuesdaye and weddensdaye folowyng and beefore that I dare saye they knewe of no disputacion and assone as the disputacion was appointed Immediatly were they separated and coulde not conferre nor talke together theyr owne bokes that they had laboured and there commun places that they had gathered was all taken from them when they came firste to pryson and when they shoulde come foorthe to dispute they were brought wyth bylles and glayues as if they should haue gone to hāging and there must one of thē alone aunswere some tymes .vi. speaking to hym at one time and euer would they crye vpon him to cutte short for the tyme was spent And whē as it came to master Rydleys torne he had prouided hys supposition thinkynge to haue reade it but they woulde not suffer hym And yet he alledged for himself the order of the scoles and that al that litel time he had bestowed in deuising the same wherein he mynded to haue declared the substaunce of his assercion of hys fayth and beleue touching that matter then in question but he coulde not be suffred in any wise and sondry tymes in hys talke they woulde take hym at aduauntage and when he woulde open hys meaninge hys tale could not be heard of the audiēce but yet there were that noted hys woordes Nowe I praye you what indifferency is thys a man wythout study wythout bokes without cōference with other and almost without hearing shal dispute for hys lyfe And they so many clappyng at one tyme agaynst one poore man alas it was a grefe And yet for all thys I warrant you they be not hasty in puttyng forth the disputations in print as much as they bragge I dare say they wyl neuer put them forth E. But is thys true that ye haue now sayd in thys matter E. Yea as trewe as god lyueth And I dare saye If ye talke with the doctours themselues that disputed agaynst them they can deny none of al thys that I haue said wel they may couler it with some other thyng but assuredly they cannot alter it it is so openly knowen E. Well brother Theophilus cōsider that whē men be in authorite and haue the gouernaūce In theyr hand some what they will doe And consider also that in kynge Edwardes tyme your doctours dealte in lyke case with our learned men And therfore blame thē not though they now show a litell of the same curtesy againe T. Nay then marke what I wil saye vnto you brother Eusebius And tell me whether the case bee lyke In king Edwardes tyme there was appoynted a disputaciō wherin were .iii. of your learned against one of ours they had leysure as muche as they woulde axe they were not taken frō theyr bokes neither put in pryson they mought cōferre wyth whō they would and go whether they would they were not so much as checkte for defendyng their opinion Another tyme also I doe remember wel that before Kyng Edward died I was present at the disputacion In oxford where one Grene waye a bacheler of diuinitie and the vice presydēt of Corporis Christi Colledge aunswered and hys question was whether Christes natural body mought be in more places then one there was one of the opponentes that openlye professed hymselfe to bee of a contrarie mynd and so disputed and yet I neuer knewe so much as one euil woorde spoken to hym Note nowe the tiranny that is vsed of the one syde whyche Chryst neuer taught And marke there great gētlenes agayne of the other syde And this were inough almost to perswade an honest heart E. Surely brother Theophi I woulde Charitie mought rule thys matter for I doe verely beeleue that if wyth loue and frendeshyp they dyd gentely commen together of these matters they should much rather agree then by suche proude disputations or rather scoldyng and brawling one with another For to what purpose serueth thys cankored malice but the one to seke the others destruction And while we goe about mischeffe to eche other there be that wyl destroye vs both and then we haue spun a fayer threde T. In dede your gathering standeth with good reason and not without good authoryte of the holy Scriptures For thys sayeth the Lord Iesus Euery kyngdome within it selfe deuydede shal be destroied Math. 12 Luke 11. Gala. 5. and euery house deuided with in it selfe shall not stande And Saincte Paule sayeth also if ye bite one another take hede lest ye be consumed one of an other E. I praye you brother The. In what place is it the Christ saith Euery kyngdome deuided wythin it selfe shall be destroyed E. In the .12 Chapter of Mathes gospel and in the .11 of Luke likewise E. Now surely I am affrayed lest those wordes are to trewe and lest we shal haue to much experiēce of the same T. Wel brother Euse You nede not care for you are a good Catholyke man and therefore no harme can happen to you for the game goeth on your syde As for me ye know I am halfe suspected and more And therefore I loke when I shal be called forth corānobis and so to the fyer a cruell death I tell you E. Wil ye beleue me brother Theophi As god helpe me I am none of those that desireth the hurt of my neybour and I tel you truth I lyke thys religion the worsse for there crueltie For vndoutedly If the matter were in my hande there shoulde none be put to death except he would obstinatly rebell by commocions or otherwyse moleste a whole commen wealth as for hys conscyence let hym discharge that betwene God and hym selfe he should chose for me for any trouble I would worke him for me thinkes it standes not with Charitie 1. Cor. 1● T. I mistrust you not brother Euse I know you to wel and like you the better And in dede sainct Paul sayth If I had fayth that I could moue mountaynes out of there places If I had not loue I am nothyng And Chryste hym selfe saieth also Iohn 14 by thys shal al men knowe that ye are my disciples yf ye loue one another the which loue springeth from a faith vnfained in the promise of god and causeth good workes to procede as the frutes come of the buddinges of the tree E. What bee those good workes ye meane T. Mary callyng vpon the name of the lyuing god by diligent feruent and continual prayer in watchyng the deuill that neyther by the lust of thys fleshe neyther yet by ambicion and coueteousnes of thys wycked world or by any other meanes he should ouercome vs and subdue vs vnto synne And therfore as we feel our selues prone and apte to euil so stil to mortifie these members of ours by fastynge and prayer with such like Godly exercises to visete and comforte our nedy neybours and so forth E. But I pray you now