congruant to Antichrist then the true Messias And as no natural minde that either denies the true light or sets up a new light in its stead cannot apprehend these things so neither can they in that state distinguish between the spirit of Christ and that of Antichrist And this inded is the reason why you and your Society are so deluded and take that for the true Messias which is rather something crying crying Loe here and loe there is Christ in you which is onely the spirit of delusion and the rather I beleeve it because it so much opposeth Christ Jesus the true Messias in his Institutions And for what you adde further the Text I have cleared elsewhere already Qu. 14. Whether the soul of man be mortal or immortal if mortal for what then did Chr. Jesus suffer to purchase eternal glory And what profiteth holiness in life If immortal where then shall it abide after death since you say there is noheaven nor hell but in a mans conscience Answ. The first part of this Quere I answer the soul is immortal but the latter part being made up of a lye I returne it back into thy Fathers bottle from whence it came till thou hast prov'd that ever I said there is no Heaven nor Hell but in a mans Conscience Reply 14. Since it is usual with thee O secret deceit to speak that in one breath which thou wilt deny in another I wonder the lesse to see you stil uphold your lying practice else you might remember the superscription of my Queries were thus For the Speakers plurully not for you their Speaker singularly of that Society called Quakers neither did I know who was to speak at that time when I brought them with me whether you or another yet resolved to deliver them to him I should there finde when probability gave me good reason to expect Hoberthorn rather then your self to exercise there at that time because he was there the Lords day then last past and I think not before and then durst not own his own name and practices And though I confesse I cannot prove it against you in particular though perhaps others may yet is it commonly known to be the opinion of the Quaking Faction and so of them to whom my Queries were directed and therefore you here lay under the guilt of a two fold lye First in denying that which is truth to wit that it is not the doctrine of your Fraternity that there is neither heaven nor hell but in a mans conscience pure Familists Secondly in giving me the lye when I spoke the truth but I see you bear in minde your old profession your bottle and so your plow though you have now changed it for a lesse laborious yet diabolical employment somention of Heresie Qu. 15. If you are perfectly free from sinne as you assert you are what then is the sting of death or are you in the flesh immortal on earth Answ. The former part of this Query I returne thee back with the latter part of thy foregoing being both of one root but to the latter part I answer where the new birth is witnessed which is not of corruptible seed but incorruptible partakers of the Divine Nature the life of Christ made manifest in mortal flesh and where life and immortality is brought to light there the sting of death is seen to be abolisht on earth but this Cain's generation knows not where death reignes and therefore would murder such as are translated from death to life Reply 15. Now O incomparable hypocritical lyar let us try the contest whether you or I in this be the lyar nay let thy own writings decide the controversie which thus asse rts expressely them who say they have faith and yet their life is not the life of Christ and say they cannot be saved from their sinnes in this world but in part Them and their Faith we deny and as I told you in publick dispute so say I now againe if this be not perfect perfection what is or was the life of Christ imperfect And is not perfect purity from sinne perfect perfection in righteousnesse But you then reply'd though I denyed it in others said you yet thou liest plaine English to say I own it in my selfe but if it be not hypocrisie to disown that in another to wit imperfection if thou thy selfe are not perfect and is not this the Character Paul gives of a false Prophet Teaching lies saith he in hypocrisie But let us see if you lye not here againe for you further adde in the same page speaking of that light in every man this light we beleeve and follow observe that and by this light are led out of all the wayes works and worships of this dark world and if this be not perfect perfection then is light darknesse so that it is proved not onely to be taught and upheld by your society which had been sufficient but also by you in particular so that here you lie under the guilt of a double lye againe as before and that others of your Society have taught and upheld the same I need not stand to repeat it being so clearly proved against you and Hoberthorn affirmed the same the Lords day before I delivered my Queries in Now my Querie being thus justified it rests wholly unanswered in the least and therefore your pretended answer might be justly cast by without any further reply but out of charity take this as an almes not a debt that the former part of my last Query and the latter part of this are both of one root I acknowledge to wit the false doctrines of your spirit which how infallible soever is a lying one And here you againe abuse the Text for that incorruption is not to be put on till this corruption shall be put off by a dissolution of the body till when the sting of death remaines which is sinne but then when by a natural death as due for the disobedience of the first Adam we shall rise againe to incorruption and life everlasting as due for the meritorious obedience of the second and when the last enemy death shall be destroyed then O Death where is thy sting and O Grave where is thy victory but not before and therefore all that you seem to heap up as a mountaine is nothing pertinent to the thing required for if the sting of death were wholly abolished then death could have no power on us and this were terestrial and present immortality the enjoyment whereof is not till having put off this corruptible by death we shall have put on incorruption which is not earthly as you pretend to say it is in this life but heavenly and in another so that you know neither how nor where death reignes nor where or when it reignes not and though I question not but you have Cain's malice yet blessed be God if you had also his might you could not so far reach as to murder them
that are translated from the death of sinne and condemnation through a dissolution of the body by a natural death unto everlasting life and salvation for there is and ever will be a gulfe betweene you and your Captain General and their eternal habitation Qu. 16. And if you have no sinne to what end is Christ beneficial as an Advocate Intercessor and Mediator or is he no such Answ. 16. Christ that gives a man a light to see his sinne who redeems and cleanseth him from sinne is of use to us and all that knowes him as the Mediator and of use to keep his from the wicked one and that he toucheth them not 1 John 5. 18. And the same who sets free from sinne is he that keeps free from sinne and this benefit we have by him as Advocate Intercessor and Mediator Ephes. 16. 17. Reply 16. And here O secret Deceiver you grant what you so lately denied for if you had not owned perfect and present perfection this Query had been void and not to have been answered and therefore in answering it without any exception or caution in the least you grant the subject perfect perfection and to this alludes the whole drift of your Answer namely to justifie what you before denied even perfect purity or perfection and so endeavour to ordaine Christ a new matter and manner of officiating as Advocate Intercessor and Mediator and that Christ gives a man that beleeves in him light to see his sin I own and witnesse and therefore you knowing not your sins it is unto me an evident manifestation that you have not the true light of Jesus Christ but to particulars Intercession is a passing between or being surety to undertake to satisfie for ones debt now if you acknowledge no debt due for sinne what need have you of a surety is he not uselesse unto you in this respect And a Mediator is one that goeth betwixt or withstandeth a matter that it goeth not forwards that is betwixt us and Gods wrath against us for sinne and how can he withstand that which is not And if there be no sinne what need is there of an Advocate to plead for us will not innocency acquit it selfe But if any man sinne not else we have an Advocate with God the Father Jesus Christ the reghteous and he is the propitiation for our sinnes that is a Sacrifice for to appease Gods anger for so the word signifies kindled by our sinnes and quenched by his blood for without blood is no Sacrifice made Now if we have no sinne there can be no wrath unlesse God can be unjust which is impossible and therefore there needs no appeasment where there is no anger And thus if you have no sinne is Christ uselesse as a Mediator and Advocate for sin So this Query rests unanswered also Qu. 17. And if you are perfect in purity what is the cause you are not also perfect in glory Answ. 17. Perfect glory is perfect purity and every one according to their measures are glorified therewith but this world knows not whose glory fadeth neither can they judge of it with their impure spirit 2 Cor. 3. 18. And of this glory all the Saints have a measure in this life but the world hates it Reply 17. Here you also grant againe that which before you denied to wit perfect purity that you in no wise here deny but rather justifie the present enjoyment of it but if you are now perfect in purity and glory is there not yet a greater and more sublime perfection of both to be expected by the faithful and if there be is not this you now pretend to enjoy imperfect by reason of that which excelleth and if there be not what then is Scripture untrue and is not this an alluding unto an immediate enjoyment of heaven upon earth and if so then that which you before denied is here also confessed concerning heaven upon earth and if this be perfection then I am sure that as is the world so is thy spirit ignorant of that which indeed is perfect and true perfection which no carnal or apostatiz'd eye can see unto for it is spiritually discerned Qu. 18. And if you disown method in teaching I Quere whether you have any command against it and whether you esteeme confusion better then uniformity Answ. 18. That method and teaching which is out of the doctrine of Christ which is in the wisedome of man and in the wisedome of words of mans wisedome out of the unity of the light of Christ and his Spirit this we see to be confusion and not uniformity and against it we have a command which was judged with the spirit of the Apostles so do we 1 Cor. 2. Reply 18. This pretended titular answer savours so much either of ignorant folly or of sophistical deceit is so far exorbitant from the thing required that it rather deserves to be laugh'd at then in the least to be reply'd unto Qu. 19. Whether ever intentively the Gospel was promised to be made known or practically that it was made known without the means to wiâ— the Ministration of man if not why then doe you resist it Ans. 19. The Gospel was made known and promised intentively and practically to the servants and children of God without the ministration of man as to Adam Enoch Noah Abraham Isay and all the Prophets John Baptist Simeon the Shepherds Paul and divers others and the same he doth at this day and none can limit him nor doe I resist what meanes he uses but such as resist his works deny his light and would limit him Gen. 3. 15. Gen. 9 9. Gen. 17. 7 Luke 3. 20. Luke 2. 10. Gal. 1. 11 12. Reply 19. O blind Sophister could probability have rendred such absurdity as possible to be in any especially one so much pretending peculiar and sacred knowledge as to bring the meanes as a testimony against it selfe as you doe and as absurd would it be to imagine that any should preach the Gospel of Christ as from themselves though I dare presume to say you doe for then would it be of man not of God And I meane thus whether ever God by promise or by practice intended or did make publick his Gospel but by the use of the meanes to wit man which it could not be but it must be first reveal'd to man and so be by man but not of man as you falsly affirm it is which meanes was Enoch who preached the Gospel in publick which had been revealed unto him in private and Noah the eighth person was a Preacher of righteousnesse and so was Isay insomuch that I have heard it made a question whether he were most properly a Prophet or an Evangelist and so were the rest of the Prophets Preachers of the same Gospel and therein were those meanes which you seem to deny and the like was John the Baptist a Preacher of the Gospel and therefore a meanes and a Minister of
and therefore was justified in that his actions were counted to him for righteousness so that his righteousness was of faith not of works for then would it have been an action of the body when faith is an act of the soule by which he and every beleever is and shall be saved and by faith was he satisfied so as to be accepted and that faith which then was sufficient is the same still even unto the end for he that beleeves shall be saved And by grace are we saved through faith and that not of our selves observe that it is the gift of God And the difference is not of the matter whereof it was and is wrought but in the means and manner at which you are offended in that because he then wrought himselfe immediately he doth not the same now but by his Ambassadors beseeching us to be reconciled unto him But if this be not a limiting of God what is then for shame cease to professe thy selfe the servant of God when thou seekest to pervert his will for that cannot be the spirit of God in thee which so fighteth against it in the Primitive Saints Query 11. Can any preach Christ who have not Christ in them and where he is is he not sole teacher what to preach and pray and how and when and to whom and is he to be limited by any external thing or to any external thing or is any ordinance to be practised but what he in spirit leads the creature to An Answer to the Eleventh Query It is possible that there may now be as in the Primitive times there were them which may preach Christ and yet not have Christ within them for far be it from me to deny or to imagine otherwise but that Judas the Tray tor preached Christ as well as any other of the Apostles and Paul testifieth as much unto the Church of Philippi that some there were that preached Christ out of envy to his cause Such I feare thou art and many more of thy society and some of strife and some of good will but yet still of them all thus testifieth Paul that whether in pretence or in truth Christ is preached I doe rejoyce yea and will therein rejoyce And the same Apostle though to another Church renders it a matter possible that whilest a Minister teaches to save others he may become a castaway himselfe when this is an assured certainty that where Christ hath begun a good work of faith in any he will perform also it and the rest of this your Query I suppose tends to that which you and more of your Apostatiz'd Brethren have asserted as that we ought to wait in silence till the Spirit move us and that whoso useth the Scriptures are robbers and stealers of others mens words This you once asserted to me and so consequently urging all to forsake reading teaching and praying or any such like exercises unlesse the Spirit by irresistable motions move us thereunto against which I utterly declare as have others done for this were first to bereave us of that glorious priviledge of communion with God he speaking unto us in his word we unto him in prayer Secondly to shut up the Kingdome of God in some sort from the sons of men in bereaving us of the meanes for discipline and observance is the security of an Army in war and what are glad tydings if they are not told Thirdly this is to presse us to the omission of duty which is questionlesse commission of offence And fourthly this leaves all open to the assaults of Satan we laying downe in our infirmities and not standing up against his invasions and temptations And lastly this giveth way to sluggishnesse of spirit and to an unwatchfulness in matters of salvation and endeavour to engage us to a confidence of beliefe in and to every thing that shall come in the name of Christ and so to receive Antichrist not leaving us the priviledge of the braines to try the words of an Apostle by the umpi of all controversies the sacred Scriptures which is absolutely opposite unto the truth and contrary yea far exorbitant from the known will and temporal expressive word of God for though he hath said The Spirit shall teach us all things yet hath it said againe Meditate on these things give thy selfe wholly to them Now wholly excludes all negligent intermission and the manner how is prescribed too for Study to shew thy selfe approved and stir up the gift in thee as fire which sometimes is covered with ashes and againe Be constant and instant in prayer and pray continually which includes all times and seasons wherefore we ought to put up our supplications at the throne of grace not onely when the spirit especially moveth us but when our occasions or necessities require and far be it from me to imagine that the Spirit of God moved the Apostles to preach when they did onely and at no other time and that they alwayes waited in silence till then for then it stirred up it selfe they stirred it not but rather hid their talents of grace in the earth and so were unprofitable if not unfaithful servants and since the holy Ghost advised and the the Apostles so practised as to meditate study and pray without ceasing it appeares plainly unto me that Christ neither limited or constrained them respectively in particular but onely notionally in general so to doe giving them repenitent hearts to sorrow for sinne and grace to beleeve and power thorow that grace to exercise faith in the performance of those duties and when they prayed Christ also prayed with them and as a faithful Mediatour making continual intercession at the throne of grace that the fruition of their prayers might be the accomplishment of their desires and far be it from me to imagine that Christ can be limited by any external thing though I suppose and really beleeve that it is possible for any man to limit himselfe and then much more for Christ who is God and therefore with him all things are possible and so may limit himselfe in any thing if he please Quere 12. What is the ground and rise of your knowledge whether it be received within man from God or without from the Letter And if without whether this be not the knowledge which all the vaine janglers comes out of and the generation of persecutors comes out of as the Jewes was in which professed the Letter and were strangers to the life of God And whether this generation of men and Professors in our Age do not begin to manifest the same as the persecuting Jewes did yea or nay An Answer to the Twefth Query My knowledge as was Pauls is neither perfectly the one nor the other and yet partly both for as the disciples of Ephesus were ignorant of Jesus though baptized unto John and had not so much as heard of that name or that there was a holy Ghost notwithstanding any inward light until they
the spirit of God by him or by the testimony of them who before had come with such works for the spirits of the Prophets are subject unto other Prophets or else if he were a Prophet the event was to declare whether he was of God or no and yet still if the matter of his exhortation were to withdraw us from the known will of God as is yours and the rest of your praters of the Quaking Society though the signes and wonders should come to passe as the man of Sinne shall abound with such deceivablenesse yet we ought not to hearken unto it though the simple beleeve every word for the Lord by such as you proveth us whether we will be faithful to the death that we may inherit a crown of life by keeping his commandements Quere 8. What eye is that which the god of this world hath blinded how he hath blinded it and how it is opened and by what and whether the Letter can open it yea or no An Answer to the Eighth Quere This seems unto me a Fiction of your own braines for to the best of my knowledge I remember not that ever I read any such phrase as that eye which the god of this world hath blinded and therefore till you produce the proofe this might suffice but I shall freely inlarge to tell you that Paul speaks to this effect if the Gospel be hid it is hid to them that are lost and then he adds whose minde the god of this world hath blinded and for minds I suppose you will grant that there is no more but one in general and them whose minds are so blinded to them also is the Gospel hid and it is hid from them onely who are lost and therefore I leave it to you to examine with unexpressible feare and trembling whether it be not hid from you since you see it not as it is the word of God but of men and thus he that is most blind may see it for no one can see it in a lower degree and for the manner how blinded by unbelief and how open'd by faith of which more at large in my Answer to your fourth Query and whether the Letter can open it yea or no the question is absurd for though it be a material it is not the sole and absolute meanes of it for though faith be by hearing yet is hearing not unto them to whom God hath given eares that they may not hear but unto them properly whose eares are sanctified by the grace of the spirit for though Paul may plant and Apollo water yet it is God must assist to give the increase or else it is unsufficient but I might as well ask thee the question whether your plow would accomplish its proper end tillage without you or some other wrought with it or the tooles of any Artificer form the wo k intended without the Workman give it motion and direct guidance which to imagine is simplicity but yet as wise arguing as is yours Quere 9. Whether the true Ministry of Christ be the same now for matter meanes and maintenance that it was in the Apostles time or when was it changed into great Livings Tythes and set maintenance and by whom and in what must it now differ from these An Answer to the Ninth Quere The true Ministry of Christ is the same now for matter meanes and maintenance that it was in the Apostles dayes though you would change it unto that which is no Ministry of Divinity but rather a mystery of iniquity I have partly proved in my answer to your seventh Query as to matter and meanes I come now unto what remaines concerning maintenance for there I shewed how Paul the wise Master buildâ—â— who yet was servant unto all was to and did ordainâ— and chuse by deputation other workmen in the same employment with him as fellow-labourers in the Vineyard of the Lords Church and so it is the same now And concerning maintenance the same Apostle having proved the necessary conveniency of a maintainance for Gospel-ministers by many unquestionable Arguments he comes at last to this Assertion Even so hath the Lord ordained that they which preach the Gospel should live of the Gospel And certainly he so ought to live as that he may not become worse then an Infidel but provide for his own Family and the Rehearser of that Ordinance was also a practitioner in the use of maintenance for this he testifies of himselfe I robbed toher Churches taking wages of them to doe you service And therefore since it was lawful for him as certainly it was to take wages for so he calls it of one Church to doe another service then sure is it much more tolerable for a Minister to take wages of a Church to serve the same And though the Apostles in the time of our Saviours presence with them took neither purse nor scrip with them because their employment required haste yet this is annexed The labourer is worthy of his hire and to take two coats might have been cumbersome and therefore they went light but as you read of their going forth so do you of their comming in too in the same Chapter and our Saviour who first instituted also disannulled this command and bids him that hath use and him that hath not buy and they being then to travel from one Region to another were to plant not keep in order the Vineyards and therefore could not be setled in any constant employment and therefore enjoyed no standing maintenance that I have read of except Paul as before named for wages must be some certaine allowance and in that the Scripture allowes and ordaines a maintenance and pet prescribes not the summe it is evidently cleare that it is left to humane providence to order that and so Paul seemes to admonish when he saith Let all things be done with decency and in all things I suppose this was included And since you have nothing else to upbraid our Ministry withal you raile against and abuse Paul as well as them when you cry out against hirelings and therefore false Prophets say you so that it is neither changed nor different from the Primitive Institution And therefore the latter part of this thy Query with most of thy Tenets thou mayest send to Rome to thy great Grandfather the Pope who hath both added to and diminished from the true Ministry and yet calls it the true still And if this satisfie thee not I shall refer thee to more able pens who have writ on this subject above mentioned as Mr. Baxter and others Quere 10. Whether the light of Christ be as sufficient to lead to God now as it was in Abrahams time and if not what must now be added to it to make it sufficient An Answer to the tenth Query This thy Query hath been sufficiently answered in my Answer to thy first Query for that which wrought effectually in other Saints wrought also in Abraham who believed