word Isaac How can you say I beate you from all Religion when I directly perswade you to follow the Rule of faith of our Reformation Scripture as each Person of sound judgment vnderstands it let this be your Religion if you will be a true Reformed Whateuer you judge in your conscience to be true let the Church of England or France or any other say and believe what they will you are to believe but what you judge by scripture to be true and this is the Religion of the Reformation Ismael J would gladly know if it be lawfull to chop or change the text Isaac It 's the Doctrin of the Reformation that you cannot because God has forbid to add to or take away from his word and therefore wee condemn the Papists for their Traditions obtruded vpon the flock as the Word of God It 's also the Doctrin of the Reformation and the practise of our best Reformers when the text does not speake cleerly enough that for to refute Popery and establish our own Doctrin wee may add or diminish a word or two which is not to change the Word of God but to make it speake more expresly as when Luther had a mind to preach Iustification by faith alone finding the Text said but Man is justified by faith he added the word Alone and made the Text very cleer against Popery which formerly was somwhat obscure Zuinglius being to teach the Figurative presence of Christ in the Sacrament found the Text this is my Body to be too pat against his Doctrin and insteed of Is put in this signifieth The Church of England being to preach the kings Spiritual Supremacy could not convince the obstinat Papist by the Original text which saide 1. Pet. 2 submit yourselvts vnto every human creature for the Lord's sake whether it it be the king as excelling or to c. But in king Edwards time they altered one word and made the text thus submit yourselves to every Ordinance of man whether it be to the king as being the cheef head and the following impressions of the Bible the yeare 1557. and 79. saie To the king as supreame And so the true Ductrin is cleerly convinced out of Scripture as also the Lawfullness of Priests marriageâ— for the text before the Reformation said 1. Cor. 9 have not wee power to leade about a Woman sister and now our Bibles say have not wee power to leade about a Wife being our sister hence its evident according the Doctrine and practise of our Reformation that when you have a mind to establish a Doctrin which you judge to be true you may change the text and make it speake to your sense and meaning provided you judge your sense to be true Ismael What do you think of Iustifying faith does faith alone justify vs Isaac It 's the Doctrin of the Reformation that without charity it cannot because S. Paul saies 1. Cor. 13. if I have faith so as to move mountains and have no charity I am nothing It 's also the Doctrin of the Reformation that its impious and wicked to say faith alone without charity does not justify this is Scripture as interpreted by Luther a man of sound judgment Who say quoth Luther that faith alone tho perfect it be cannot justify without charitie say impiously and wickedly because faith alone without any good works doth justify Believe which Doctrin you please both are of the Reformation Ismael Luther was insolent in checking the Doctrin of S. Paul Isaac Probably he did not reflect that it was the Doctrin of the Apostle and if you will have it to be a check of S. Paul Luther will answer for himself Be it saies he that the Church Augustiâ— or other Drs also Peter and Paul nay and an Angel from heaven should teach otherwise than as I teach yet my Doctrin is such that it setteth forth Gods glory I know I teach no human but Divin Doctrin It 's the Doctrin of the Reformation that faith alone without any good works and notwithstanding all sins you are guiltie of doth justify you this is Scripture as interpreted by Luther who saies nothing can damn you but incredulity as nothing but faith can save you of Whitaker Wotten fulk and Beza whose words I related in our precedent Dialogue which J believe you remember and J need not repeat Jts also the Doctrin of the Reformation that good workes are meritorious of grace and glorie Hocker and Harmonia confess say its the Doctrin of scripture and what any Person of sound judgment judges to be the Doctrin of scripture he may believe it for this is our Rule of faith it s like wise the Doctrin generally of all our Church that good Works are not at all meritorious Tindal called by Fox a Man of God and a constant Martyr judges this to be so true that in his treatise de Mammona iniquitatis he saies Christ himself did not by all his good Works merit the glory and tho the scripture saies expresly he did Calvin affirms that its a foolish curiosity to examin and a rash proposition to say Christ did merit Jt's the Doctrin of the Reformation that tho good works be not meritorious nor have not the least influence in our justification or salvation yet they are absolutly needfull for both in as much as that true faith cannot be without good Works because they are the marks and signs of a living faith by which alone wee are saved this is the judgment of the Church of England expressed in the 11. and 12. Article of the 39. and of Melancton in locis Commun de Bonis operibus and you may believe it You may also believe and its the Doctrin of the Reformation that good Works are so farr from being needfull that they are prejudicious and hurtfull to our salvation and the best way to be saved is to do no good Work at all this is scripture as interpreted by Jlliricus Flaccius Amsdorfius quoted in Act. Colloq Aldeburg pag. 205. and 299. and Luther was so deeply perswaded of this truth that tho Christ said If â—hou wilt enter into the kingdom of heaven keep the Commandments Luther saies it s an obstacle to our Salvation to keep them Where it is said quoth he that faith in Christ doth indeed justify vs but that it is necessary also to keep the Commandements there Christ is denied and faith abolisht because that which is proper to faith alone is attributed to the Commandements And again saies he if faith be-acompanied with good Works it s â—o true faith that it may justifie it must be alone without any good Works This is Scripture as interpreted by such Eminent and sound men and consequently the Doctrin of the Reformation and who doubts but that any Doctrin of the Reformation may be believed Hence forward when you hear the preacher exhort you to good Works you may believe him if you please and have a
commonly believed by the Protestans and Popish Church we believe in Jesus Christ the son of God of one and the same substance and nature with the Father they believe in a Jesus Christ son of God but of a distinct and different nature and substance from the Father Isaac Pish that 's but a nicetie believe what you please and what you vndestand by Scripture to be true and have charitie Ismael I confess you have puzzled but yet not wholy convinced me were I but perswaded that what you have discoursed is truly the Doctrin of the reformation J would cheerfully embrace it and J will be better informed by your self but not tyre your patience we will meet again and pursue our Discours vpon this subject II. DIALOGUE ISMAEL Reflecting in my solitude vpon your last discours J find it bottom'd vpon a fals principle for you suppose that what euer Doctrin is of Luther Calvin or any of our Learned Drs Synods Parliaments or Congregations is the Doctrin of the Reformation and may without any more proof or scruple be believed by any Reformed Child who but sees this is ridiculous to fasten the Doctrin and absurd opinions of each particular Dr or Congregation vpon the whole body this is the vncharitable and vnreasonable art of the Papists who keep a great coyl with som exorbitaÌ„t opinions of Luther and Calvin and would perswade their Proselyts they are the Tenets of the Reformation wheras the Reformation disclaims those opinions as much as the Pope does and they do not poore people observe how many absurd and scandalous Doctrins we meet in their Casuists and Divins which when we reproach them with they answer it s not the Doctrin of their Church but of som particular Drs as if we might not with as much justice as they answer the same Isaac Your reflection is good and my discours will fall to ground if I do not prove that principle which will be no hard task Let vs imagin we are heere a full synod of Protestants Presbyterians Hugonots Lutherans Antitrinitarians Anabaptists Quakers and of all and each of our Congregations our Reformation is not any of these Congregations with an exclusion of the rest but all of them ioyntly for whatsoeuer Congregation would say it self alone is the Reformation and no other would be hiss'd at by the rest and iustly because that our Reformation imports two points essentialâ—y first a Profession of Christianitie according the Rule of the Word of God and a detestation or abjuration of Popish Errors and none of these Congregations but does both Ismael I know som of these Pharisee like despise others and Looke upon them not as Refâ—rmed but as putrid members but the Lord forbid I should be so deuoid of charitie I see no just challenge any can have to the Title of Reformation which all haue not Isaac Let vs ask this synod by what Rule of faith does the Reformation walk what must a man believe for to be a true Reformed Protestants will say that Scripture and Apostolical Tradition but Protestants say of Papists and Presbyterians and Anabaptists say of Protestants that many human inventions are obtruded upon vs as Apostolical Traditions that we have no way to discern the one from the other and conâ—â—quently Tradition as being an vnknown thing vnto vs cannot be our Rule others will say that Scripture and the indubitable consequences out of it is our Rule all will grant this but then enters the Controversie if the consequences of Lutherans be such and if the consequences of Presbyterians be indubitable out of Scripture and each Congregation will say that their peculiar Tenets are indubitable consequences out of Scripture and the rest must allow it to be true or deny such a Congregation to be of the Reformation Others will say that Scripture and the four first General Councils with the Apostles and Athanasius's Creeds are our Rule of faith but most of the assembly will no more admit the four first than the subsequent Councils nor Athanasius his Creed more than that of Trent nor will the Quakers Socinians and others value the Apostles Creed But there is none of all the Assembly who will not admit Scripture that 's the pure written word of God to be a sacred and full Rule of faith because it s replenisht with Divin light and all Heavenly instruction necessarie for our saluation and such as ad as a part of our Rule of faith the Apostles or Athanasius his Creeds or the four first General Councils they will confess that all they containe is expressed in Gods written word and are but a plainer or more distinct expression or declaration of the Contents of Scripture Ismael Truly I must grant you this that I have been often present at severall discourses of Protestants with Papists and never yet could I heare a Protestant make Councils Tradition or any thing els the Test of their discours but onely scripture not but that I could heare them say and pretend in their discourses that Apostolical Tradition and the four first Councils were for them against Popery but still their main strength and vltimat refuge was Scripture for when ever they harp vpon that string of Tradition and Councils the Papists are visibly too hard for them and then they run to Scripture than which there is no plus vltra I have been also often at severall discourses betwixt Protestans Presbyterians and our brethren of other Congregations and have observed that the Protestant for to defend his lyturgie Rites and Ceremonies of the Church of England and her Episcopacy against the others could never defend himself by scripture alone and placed his main strength against them in Tradition Primitive Councils and ancient Fathers all which the others rejected and reproached the Protestant with Popery for making vse of that weapon that if thy would stick to those Principles as their Rule of faith they must admit many Tenets of Popery which they disavow that nothing but scripture is a sufficient warrant and Rule of faith And I find by all I could ever well vnderstand that its the General apprehension and belief of all the Reformation that Scripture abundantly contains all we are obliged to believe and is our sole and adequat Rule of faith and that our recours to Tradition Councils Fathers c. are but shifts of some of our Drs. who being Non plust in their particular engagements and Sophistries patch the incoherencie of their discours with these raggs of Popery Isaac I commend your ingenuity but not that heate which transports you to check our Drs for their glosses and particular Doctrins vpon Scripture which as the Manna relisht of all sorts of Victuals which the Eaterâ— fancied admits several senses according the different spirits and measure of light that God gives to the Reader and it is vndoubtedly the the Spirit of the Reformation to follow what sense of it he likes best and not to check others for following this or that as
establisht it could not be Christ the son of God because he wanted prouidence and vpon this reflexion he renounced Christ and became a Jew And no man can say but that he acted and behaued himself like a true Child of the Reformation in so doing for he followed scripture as he vnderstood it and as he was a true Reformed Child in forsaking Popery because he vnderstood by Scripture that the Reformation was better so since he vnderstood by reading Scripture more that Judaism was better than the Reformation he acted like a good Reformed in chosing that which he vnderstood by Scripture to be the best this is the Reformations Rule of faith do you if you please as he did and you 'l be as good a Reformed as he And if you choose to believe that there is a Church establisht on earth by Christ you must beware never to believe or perswade yourself that wee are bound to believe her Docctrin or live in her if you do not judge by scripture that she teachs the Doctrin of Christ This is the most essential point of Popery An obligation of submitting our judgments to the Church and believing her Doctrin without any more examin and in this the Church of England is much like the Popish Church which by acts of Parliaments and other severities would oblige all men to believe her Doctrin Rites and Ceremonies No God has given vs scripture for our Rule of faith as wee forsook the Popish Church because wee discouered by Scripture her many Errors in Doctrin so wee are not bound to believe the Doctrin of any other Church but as wee find by scripture her Doctrin is true Do and speake as Luther to 1. Edit Jen. in Resolut I will be free and will not submit to the authority of Councils Popes Church or vniversity to the contrary I will confidently teach whatever I judge to be true whether it be Catholic Doctrin or hereticall condemned or approued Ismael Must I not believe that the Doctrin of Jesus Christ delivered to his Apostles and the Church is true Doctrin Isaac The Reformation teaches it is and you may safely believe it You may as safely believe it is not in the Principles of the Reformation because it teaches that Christ err'd in Doctrin and manners Vere Pharisaei eâ—ant viri valde boni saies Luther Christus minime debuit eos taxare and Calvin saies it s a folly to think he was not ignoranâ— in many things lastly David Georgius a Man of God and of a holy life saies Osiander writes If the Doctrin of Christ and his Apostles had been true and perfect the Church which they planted had continued but now it is manifest that Antichrist has subverted it as it 's manifest in Papacy therefore it was false and impeâ—fect See these words quoted in the historie of David George printed by the Divins of Basile at Antwerp an 1568. both Doctrins are Scripture as interpreted by men of sound judgment a Child of the Reformation may believe which he will Ismael Is it not the Doctrin of the Reformation that the Apostles were infallible in their Doctrin much more must wee believe that Jesus Christ was so Isaac Yes it is you may believe it and it s also the Doctrin of the Reformation that they were not infallible neither in their written or vnwritten Doctrin so many of our most renowned Drs speake and whatever any men of sound judgment judge to be true by scripture is the Doctrin of the Reformation Zuinglius one of the greatest Oracles of our Church saies It 's a great ignorance to believe any infallible authority in the Ghospels or Epistles of the Apostles Beza not inferiour to Zuinglius blotted out of S. John the historie of the Woman Adulteress judging it a fable Clebitius affirms that Luk's relation of Christ's passion is not true because it does not agree with that of Mathew and Mark and more credit is to be given to two than to one Calvin saies Peter consented to and added to the schism of the Church to the ouerthrow of Christian liberty and Christ's Grace Whitaker sais It 's evident that after the Descent of the Holy G. the whole Church even the Apostles erred and Peter erred in Doctrin and Manners Luther saies Peter liued and taught extra Verbum Dei and Brentius his disciple saies that Peter and Barnabas togither with the Church of Ierusalem erred after receiving the H. Ghost If our Rule of faith be Scripture as each Person of sound judgment vnderstands it vndoubtedly this must be the Doctrin of the Reformation and may be believed by any Reformed since its Scripture interpreted by such renowned men Ismael This is most wicked Doctrin I 'l never believe it Isaac Jf you think by Scripture its wicked do not follow your Rule of faith Scripture as you vnderstand it but if an other vnderstands by scripture as those authors did that the Doctrin is good give him leave to believe it hee 'l but follow his Rule of faith Scripture as he vnderstands it Ismael I would gladly know which are the true Canonical bookes of scripture Isaac The Reformation teachs and you may believe with the Church of England that S. Paul's Epistle to the Hebrews those of James and Jude the 2. of S. Peter the 2. and 3 of S. John are true Cononical Scripture the Reformation also teachs they are not Canonical because Lutherans deny them believe which you like best But if you l ' live in peace and out of all strife with Protestants Lutherans and others who dispute if this or that be Canonical Scripture your rediest and speediest way will be to say ther 's no true Canonical Scripture Scripture is no more to be regarded than other pious bookes if you say this is not the Doctrin of the Reformation reade Hossius de expresso Verbo Dei lib. de Haer. where he relates this to be the Doctrin of the Swiâ—feldians as good Reformeds as the best of vs they say that wee are not to regard any instruction from man or book but Gods immediat inspiration which speakes secretly to our hearts for which they alleadge those comfortable words of the prophet I will hear what my Lord my God speakes in me for say they the book which we call Scripture is a creature and we must not seeke for light and instruction from any creature but from God the Father of Lights This is Scripture as interpreted by men of sound judgment any Child of the Reformation may believe it Ismael I thought to settle my mind in my choyce of som Religion and you go the way to beate me from all for if you renvers the authority of Scripture what warrant shall wee haue for any Religion God forbid the Reformation should deny the true Canon or the infallible truth of Scripture and let all the world say the contrary I will constantly revere and believe it's Gods infallible
out of heauens gates and suffer Inquisitions persecutions excommunications and what not so among vs you must believe Scripture as interpreted by the Church of England or you are condemned by them you must believe Scripture as interpreted by the Presbyterians or you are accursed by them you must believe as Anabaptists do or you are damn'd by them and not one Congregation among vs but would root all the others out of the world if it could and wee do not feare that danger wherof S. Paul Gal. 5.15 warns vs If wee bite and devour one an other let 's take heed wee be not consumed one of an other giving vs likewise a holsom advice in the same place how to prevent this euil Stand fast in the libertie wherewith Christ has made vs free and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage The world did groan vnder this heauy yoke in Popery wherin our Rule of faith was Scripture as interpreted by the Pope and Church Scripture was kept from the hand of the flock no man permitted to give or believe any interpretation or sense of it but what the Pope Church and Fathers did approve our reason our judgments our consciences were slaves vnder this yoke vntill that God raised our glorious and blessed Reformers Luther Calvin Zuinglius Beza and others who tooke a holy Libertie and gave vâ— all libertie for to reade and interpreâ— Scripture to believe no Doctrin buâ— what wee judged to be true by Scripture to believe any sense of it which wee judged to be true tho contrary to all thâ— world they tooke for their Rule of faitâ— Scripture and nothing else but Scripturâ— as each one of them vnderstood it thiâ— same Rule of faith they left to vs and â— holy freedom and libertie of our judgments and consciences that any man oâ— sound judgment may hold and believâ— whatever sense of it he thinks to bâ— true This therefore is the scope and end oâ— my following Treatise that wheras ouâ— Rule of faith as J will prove by thâ— vnanimous coÌ„sent of our whole Reformed Church is Scripture or Gods Wriâ—ten Word as interpreted by each persoâ— of sound judgment that wheras bâ— the Principles of our Reformation nâ— man is to be constrained to believe anâ— Doctrin against his judgment and conscience otherwise why were not we left in Popery it is impious tyranâ—cal and quite against the spirit of the Reformation to force vs by Acts of Parliaments Decrees of Synods invectives and persecutions of indiscreet Brethren to embrace this or that Religion that every one ought to be permitted to believe what he please if you think Bigamy to be the Doctrin of Scripture if you think by Scripture there is one Nature and four Persons in God if you think Transubstantiation to be true if you judge by Gods Word ther 's neither Purgatory nor Hell finally whatever you think to be the true sense of scripture you are bound as a true Reformed Child to believe it that it is quite against the spirit of the Reformation to censure oppose or blame the Doctrin or Tenets of any Congregation or of any Doctor of the Reformed Church because that any Doctrin professed by any Christian Congregation whatever the Popish excepted or that ever was delivered by any man of good judgment of the Reformation since the beginning of it vntill this day is as truly and really the Doctrin of the Reformation as the Figurative Presence or kings supremacy is Consequently Protestants are deservedly to be checkt for persecutinâ— Quakers Quakers for murmuring againâ— Presbyterians these for their invectivâ— against Anabaptists and Socinians Aâ— are very good and you may lawfully according the Principles of our Reformâ—tion believe them or deny them This Evangelical libertie of believinâ— any thing which we judge to be the senâ— of scripture tho all the rest of the worlâ— should judge it to be a blasphemie the most distinctive sign of the Refoâ—mation from Popery for Papists are thâ— Children of Agar the slave they livâ— in bondage and constraint to believe at Doctrin which the Pope and Church prâ—poses to them and if a learned man â— vniversity should judge it to be contraâ— to Scripture he must submit his judgment to that of the Pope or be coâ—demn'd as an Heretic in our Reformâ—tion wee are the Children of Sara tâ— Free our Rule of faith is Scripture â— each Person of sound judgment in thâ— Church vnderstands it if wee do nâ— like the Doctrin of the Pope Church â— Council wee may gainsay them all anâ— hold our own sense of Scripture â— enjoy the Prerogative of Rational creâ—tures we are lead by our own reason which God has given vs for our conduct and are not like Beasts constrained to follow that of others Wee follow the Rule given vs by S. Paul Rom. 14. He who eates let him not despise him who does not eate and he who does not eate let him not despise him who does eate for God hath received him that 's to say he who believes let him not check him who does not believe as he does and he who does not believe let him not blame him who does believe but let each one believe or not believe as he thinks best in the Lord This holy libertie and freedom is the Spirit of God for where the Spirit of God is there is libertie 2. Cor. 3. saies the great Apostle The Lord inspire to our Parliament that now sitâ— vpon a perfect and new settlement of Gouvernment and Religion to follow the footsteps of our first renowned Reformers to enact that there may be no other Rule of faith but that which we received from our Reformers and which is laid down for vs in the 39 Articles of the Church of England that is Scripture as each one best vnderstands it without regarding the judgment sense or interpretation of any but the pure Word of God as we vnderstand it and to enact Penal Laws against any so bold and vncharitable as to censure or blame the Tenets of any Congregation be it Lutheranism Presbyterie Arianism Judaism or Paganism or any Doctrin whatever that any man of sound judgment thinks in his conscience to be the sense and Doctrin of Scripture Three things make me hope that this Treatise will be wellcom to the well inclined and pious Reader of our Reformed Church first that there is not one author quoted in this booke but our own Doctors learned and godly Children of the Reformation and this J observe that my Reader may know ther 's not a Jot of any Doctrin heer but what is of the Reformation and also advertise our Writers and Schoole men how much they discredit our Reformed Church by makeing so much vse of Popish Drs and Bookes in their Writings as if wee had not great and learned men of our own if wee looke into our Bishops and Ministers libraries wee shall meet but books either of confessedly Papists or strongly suspected of Popery and you shall hardly
they please Lutherans Protestants Presbyterians c. have all for their Rule of faith Scripture which each of them interprets in a different sense Luther for the Real Protestants for the Figurative Presence Protestants for Episcopacy Presbyterians against it and so of others and tho each esteems his own sense to be the best yet none is so bold as to say the others may not be saved in their own sense of it or deny them to be true Children of the Reformation nay that Venerable Synod of Charenton as I quoted aboue has declared that the Lutherans tho opposit to them in their chief Tenets are their beloved Brethren and have nothing Idolatrous or superstitious in their manner of Divin worship the fundamental reason of all this is that our Rule of faith is but Scripture as each Person of sound judgment vnderstands it Ismael I grant all your discourse as to this particular for its certain Lutherans will not admit Scripture as interpreted by Protestants but as interpreted by themselves and so of each other Congregation Isaac If you admit our Rule is Scripture as each vnderstands it then you must grant that our Doctrin of the Reformation is whateuer Doctrin each Person of sound judgment vnderstands to be of Scripture and from this it appears plainly that my Principle wherat you bogl'd is true That whateuer Doctrin is professed by any of our Congregations Synods Parliaments Drs. or particular Dr. of our Reformation is to be truly reputed and esteemed the Doctrin of the Reformation which Principle being true my discourse of yesterday is vndeniable that you may change religions as often as you please and remain still a true Reformed Child Ismael But you haue said that not only the Doctrin of each Congregation and Synod is the Doctrin of the Reformation but also whateuer any one particular Doctor teachs and this seems to be very absurd Isaac It 's not so absurd as it is true I 'l prove by the Principles of our Reformed Church by the testimonies of our most Learned and Best Drs. and Reformers and by reason and experience that the Doctrin of any particular Doctor among vs has as much right to be called and esteemed the Doctrin of the Reformation as Protestancy Presbytery or Lutheranism for what is Lutheranism but the judgment of Luther a particular Dr against the whole Church of Rome what is Calvinism but what Calvin a particular Dr judged to be the sense of Scripture against that same Church what is Quakery but honest Naylor's godly and pious sentiments vpon Scripture It s vndeniably the Principle of our Reformed Church that our Rule of faith is Scripture as interpreted not only by Synods or Congregations but by any Person of sound judgment in the Church No Congregation or Synod is to vs a Rule of faith because all are fallible but Gods Written Word as each one vnderstands it and if wee do not like the sense of it delivered by any Council Synod or Congregation wee may safely deny it therefore our great Calvin saies and proues with great energy of Scripture and reason that we are not obliged to the Decisions and Doctrin of any Council Synod or Congregation if after hauing examined Scripture we do not find their interpretation and sense of it is conformable to the Word of God Let Synods and Congregations say what they will if any particular Doctor thinks his own privat sense of it to be better he may stick to it against them all and be a good true Child of the Reformation as Arminius in Holland did withstand the Synods of Dordreet and Delpht as Luther and Calvin did against Rome I will be free saies our vnparalleld Proto-Apostle Luther I wil◠not submit my self to the authority of Councils Church Drs Vniuersities or Fathers but will teach and preach whateuer I think to be true Did ever any Apostle speake with more courage and the blessed man acted with no less he knew full well the whole Stream of antiquity Drs Fathers and Councils were against him as he confesses himself and dit not care a rus◠for them all Lay aside saies he ◠arms of Orthodox antiquity of School◠of Diuinity authority of Fathers Councils Popes and consent of ages we receiue nothing but Scripture but s◠that we must haue the authority of interpreting it Nor was it only Luther and Calvin spoke thus but all our first blessed Reformers and why because our Rule of faith is Scripture not a interpreted by the Church of England France will not admit it nor as interpreted by the Quakers the Anabaptists and Independents will not heare it nor as interpreted by Luther Calvin rejects it nor as interpreted by Calvin Thorndic and Bramhal will not yield to it nor will Stillingfleet stand to their interpretation nor others to that of Stillingfleet Finally our Rule of faith is Scripture not as interpreted by any but as each Congregation Synod particular Dr or man of sound judgment interprets it and consequently what ever Doctrin any man of sound judgment judges to be of Scripture is to be esteemed the Doctrin of the Reformation and you may safely believe it if you like it and remain still as truely a Reformed Child as the proudest Protestant of England Ismael Can you prove that our Rule of faith is Scripture as any particular Dr or person of sound judgment vnderstands it Isaac Behold how convincingly first wee have heard Luther quoted but now say We receive nothing but Scripture but so as that we must have the authority for t◠interpret it hear him again Th◠Governors and Pastors haver powe t◠teach but the sheep must give thei◠judgment whether they propose the voy◠of Christ or of strangers And again Christ has taken from the Bishops Councils and Pastors the right of judging of Doctrin and given it to all Christians i◠General and the Rule is Scripture ◠each one will think fit to interpret i◠And consequently to this wee hav◠heard him say aboue I will be fi◠and will not submit to Drs Councils ◠Pastors but will teach whatever think to be true Barlow The Apostles have given to each particular t◠Right and power of interpreting a◠judging by his inward spirit what i◠True its needless that either man ◠Angel Pope or Council should instru◠you the spirit working in the heart an◠Scripture are to each particular person mo◠assured interpreters Bilson Bishop o◠Wincester saies the same The peopl◠must be discerners and judges of wha◠is taught Our Religion has no othe◠Rule of faith saies our French Reformation by the mouth of Dumoulin Drelincourt and the holy Synod of Charenton but the Written Word of God as interpreted by vs. Lastly saies the Church of England in the 6th Art of their 39. We have no other Rule of faith but Scripture as each person of sound judgment in the Church vnderstāds it and what is proved by it and again
fishermen to be his Apostles â— know it 's the practise of Papists and from them your Church of England borrows it to despise the Ministeriâ— of Women tradesmen and illiteraâ— people in preaching teaching and interpreting Scripture but S. Paul tell vs The word of God is not bound that's to say is not entayl'd on thâ— learned rich or great ones the Wind bloweth where it listeth oâ— Bishops and Ministers would make â— Monopoly of the Word of God and have themselves to be the only Retailers of it for to have som plausible title for to enjoy great Rents and sheare the flock but wee have seen as well among the Quakers aâ— in other Congregations filly Women and Tradesmen replenisht with Gods Spirit preach and expound the great Misteries of our Religion with as much of good success and edification of the Auditory as any Penny-booke Man in England Ismael It seems you approue the Ministerie of Women and silly Tradesmen for preaching and teaching the flock and if so you 'l ouerthrow our Hierarchy of Bishops and Ministers Isaac It matters not much for you to know what I approve or condemn but to know what the Doctrin of the Reformation is It 's this that none can teach preach administer Sacraments or exercise Ecclesiastical functions if he be not in holy Orders Bishop Minister or Deacon for the Church of England teachs it and you may believe it if you please You may also deny it and say any Woman or tradesman has as much power for to preach and administer the Sacraments as the richest Bishop in England this also is the Doctrin of the Reformation as well as the former because Quakers Presbyterians Brownists Anabaptists c. believe and teach it and they are men of as sound judgments and as good Reformeds as Protestants nay the most learned of our Reformers teach and commend the power of Women for to exercise Spiritual functions and administer the Sacraments Saumaise Peter Martyr and Zuinglius expresly defend the Priesthood as well of Women as of Men and Luther proves it efficaciously The first office of a Priest saies he is to preach this is common to all euen women the second is to baptize which is also common to women the third is to consecrat the bread and wine and this also is common to all as well as to men and in the absence of a Priest a womaâ— may absolve from sins as well as the Pope because the words of Christ whateuâ—â— yee shall vntye on earth shall be vntyed in heauen were said to all Christians And when so eminent men haâ— not said it reason and Scripture convinces it Reason because that our Rule of faith being Scripture aâ— each Person of sound judgment vnderstands it many women vndoubtedly are of sound judgment and why should not their interpretation of Scripture pass for the Doctrin of the Reformation as well as that of our Bishops and Ministers Scripture because wee reade the Samaritan Woman was the first who preached the Messias to the Cittie of Samaâ—ia and Christ commanded Mary Magdalen to go to preach his Resurrection to his Disciples and wee know by our Cronicles that our glorious Queen Elizabeth of blessed memory did not only gouern the state but was a great Apostoless in Church affaires Ismael To what purpose then have wee Bishops and Ministers who enjoy so vast reuenews if any man or woman can preach and administer the Sacraments as well as they Isaac You may believe Bishops and Ministers are very needfull for the service of the Church for they being commonly learned witty men and having Wyves they come to instruct their wyves so well that the good women com in a short time to be as learned as their husbands and as nimble and quick in the Ecclesiastical Ministeries as they if they were permitted to exercise them as som Authors of credit relate vnto vs that a Gentleman of Constance writ to his friend in a Village about threâ— leagues distant from that Cittie whose inhabitants were for the mosâ— part of our Lutheran Reformation the good Pastor exhorted his flocâ— to prepare for Easter Communion and that none should presume tâ— come to the holy Table but shoulâ— first confess and receive absolutioâ— of his sins Easter holy dayes beinâ— come such a multitude flockt to confession that the Pastor could not satisfie the devotion of so great a croâ— he called his wife to help him fâ— to hear Confessions and give absolutions in wich Ministerie the gooâ— Lady did labour with great satisfaction of the Penitents but neithâ— the Pastor nor his virtuous Consoâ— being able to dispatch so great a multitude he called his Maide Servant who did work in the holy Minister with as much expedition as her Master But for all this the Church oâ— Scotland France and all England Protestants excepted will tell yoâ— that Bishops and Ministers are noâ— needfull nay that they are very prejudicious to the Reformation and State To the Reformation because this Hierarchy with the Bishops Court surplices Corner Caps and other trumperies puts the flock in mind of Popery wherof its a perfect resemblance and whylst the Papists see our change from them comes to be almost no more but to substitute new Priests and Bishops in their own place for to manage more conscienciously the Rents and reuenews which they profanely abused and that those Rents and revenews are still in the hands of an Ecclesiastical Hierarchie they live in hopes of recovering them som day when our Bishops and Ministers will come to be as bad â—tewards of them as they were and â—hat the flock will be weary of them â—nd call back the Ancient Possessors â—ts therefore perhaps the Emissaries â—f the Pope do incessantly blow in â—ur eares how ill our Ecclesiastical â—evenews are bestowed for to mainâ—ain wyves and Children Pomp and â—anitie of Bishops and Ministers no â—ess than in Popery To the State they seem to be prejudicious wheraâ— any but a Bishop or Minister would think it would be more advantagiouâ— to the Common-wealth that the king should have those Revenews for to maintain his fleet and armie and easâ— thereby the subjects of subsidies anâ— taxes than that a handfull of Bishop and Ministers should have them specially when others can preach anâ— teach as well as they for nothing bâ— the pleasure of being heaâ—d Ismael But do not you see it woulâ— be a Sacriledge that the king shoulâ— deprive the Clergy of their Churcâ— Revenews Isaac And do not you know thâ— almost all our Congregations do holâ— our Clergy to be no true Clergy bâ— as meer laymen as you or I the admit no Clergy or Episcopal Carâ—cter But Elders chosen by the Coâ—gregation and if they be no trâ— Clergy they have no right to thâ— Church Revenews and it s no sacrâ—ledge to deprive them of them Thâ— Popish Clergy in Henry the VII time had visibly a greater right â— them than ours now have sâ— neither the
swerued from the spirit and holyness of the Reformation which hauing no other Rule of faith but Scripture as each Person of sound judgment vnderstands it it 's Spirit and holyness consist in framing our life and Doctrin to that Rule as our blessed Reformers and Reformation in its beginning did believing those Tenets which you call Errors and blasphemy and liuing that life which you call Dissolution and corruption of Manners because they judge by Scripture as they vnderstood it that Doctrin and manner of life was true innocent and good and if you like it as they did you may believe and liue as they did and be a good Child of the Reformation consider I pray all the works and Doctrin of Luther the like I say of our other first Reformers the three parts of his Doctrin is against Popery and They say all are Heresies and blasphemies the rest is contrary to the Church of England and she saies this is also Errors and blasphamie so you conspire with the Papists to destroy the credit of our first and best Reformer and betwixt you both you vnplume him of all his Feathers and leaue him not a bit of good Doctrin But I will stand to the Spirit and Principles of the Reformation and Congregations as now they are since that you do so much boast of its purity and great Perfections and I will prove that Doctrin and manner of life may be believed and followed lawfully standing to its Principles for if the Spirit of the Reformation be at present among vs wee must not be forced as in Popery to believe against our proper judgments what others believe by Scripture to be ttue and holy but what each one thinks in his own conscience to be such because even now at present our Rule of faith is Scripture as each person of sound judgment vnderstands it and this is the same Rule which Luther and the Reformation in its beginning had this holy libertie is the best iewel the greatest perfection and most glorious prerogative the Reformation has if therefore now at present any man judges by scripture that he can marry ten wyves at a time that he can kill his owne son as Abraham intended that he may commit incest with his own Daughter as Lot did that there is no sin but incredulity as Luther believed nor any Mysterie of the Trinitie of Persons in one nature as Calvin believed with what justice can the Church of England say a man does not believe and live as becometh a Reformed Child or that his Doctrin and life is scandalous wheras he lives and believes as he vnderstands by Scripture he may or ought to do which is the Rule of faith of the Reformation even of the Church of England the Church of England saies the Lutheran Doctrin of the real Presence is not the Doctrin of Scripture that the Presbyterian Doctrin against Episcopacy is not the Doctrin of Scripture that the Anabaptist Doctrin against infants Baptism is not of Scripture and yet you permit them all to live in peace you confess they are true Children of the Reformation tho dissenters from you why because they follow Scripture as they vnderstand it and this is our Rule of faith and why will not you say the belief and life of that other man is also of the Reformation tho absurd it may seem to you since he believes and lives as he judges by Scripture he may it follows therefore plainly that this is the Doctrin of the Reformation Ismael I confess our Rule of faith in the Reformation is Scripture as each person of sound judgment vnderstands it but you cannot doubt but that its needfull to moderat and curb this libertie or it may run too farr for if every man be lycenc't to believe and teach every thing he fancies to be according Scripture as there is no Doctrin so execrable but som ignorant Reader may hit vpon a text which ill vnderstood may seem to favor it so there will be none but may be believed and called the Doctrin of the Reformation for example Beza teaches and saies its also the Doctrin of Calvin Saumaize and Geneve that the Lords supper may belawfully administer'd in any kind of victuals as well as in bread and wine in Eges flesh fish c. Where there is no bread and wine saies he wee may duly celebrat if insteed of them we vse what wee vsually eate and drink And again in the same place If there be no water at hand and that baptism ' cannot be with edification differed I would baptize in any other liquor Isaac and why should not it be lawfull to any Reformed to believe this wheras its Scripture as interpreted by a man of so sound a judgment but I do not in any wise like that opinion of yours and of the Church of England that its convenient to limit and curb mens judgments least they may run too farr this is the Policy of Rome They will not permit an arbitrary interpretation of Scripture alleadging forsooth for inconveniencie the multitude of absurd Doctrins which the word would swarm with if such a libertie were granted No No far be it from any true Reformed Child to mislike or blame that all people should interpret Scripture and believe what they judge by it to be true and if what the judge to be true should seem to you fals and scandalous do not you believe it but let them believe it and they will be of the Reformation because they follow our Rule of faith Ismael Luther Melancton Musculus Ochinus Beza and others teach the lawfullness of Bigamy or multiplicity of Wives and prove it with the example of Abraham Isaac and Jacob and Ochinus expounding the text of S. Paul It behoueth a Bishop to be a man of one Wife The prohibition saies he is not to be vnderstood so that a Bishop should have but one wife at a time for certainly he may have many but S. Paul's meaning is that he ought not to have too many wyves at a time that 's to say ten or twentie Isaac And will you deny this to be the Doctrin of the Reformation wheras its Scripture as interpreted by men of so eminent and sound a judgment Ismael The synod of Geneve and the Ecclesiastical Disciplin of France printed at Saumure has decreed that a wife whose husband is a long time absent may have him called by the public Cryer and if within a competent time he does not appear without any further enquiry the Minister may lycence her to marry an other or marry her himself Isaac J say all honest Women may practise this Doctrin without scruple or shame wheras its Scripture as interpreted by that thrice holy synod but let seamen beware how they undertake long voyages for feare their Wyves may take other husbands in their absence Ismael Luther teachs its lawfull to a wife if her husband does not please her to call her
mind to spend your monies because he preaches the Doctrin of the Reformation or you may laugh at him and believe not a word he saies because he preachs against the Doctrin of the Reformation Ismael These are dangerous and scandalous Tenets destructive of piety and Christianity and let Luther and those Authors you quoted say what they please the Reformation nor no honest man will ever believe such abominable Doctrin Isaac J do not say that the Children of the Reformation are obliged to believe them they may believe as you do that all are wicked Tenets but if Luther and the others cited judge in their conscience these Tenets to be the Doctrin of scripture and if Peter John or James like their interpretation I say they may according the Principles of our Reformation believe them and be as truly Reformed Children as you for our Rule of faith is Scripture as each Person of sound judgment vnderstands it and in believing those Tenets because they judge them to be the Doctrin of scripture they stick fast to and follow our Rule of faith why is Figurative Presence and the kings supremacie the Doctrin of the Reformation tho denied by Papists Lutherans and Presbyterians but because the Protestants judge its the Doctrin of scripture if therefore those great Authors I quoted and any other with them judge those Tenets to be the Doctrin of Scripture they can be justly called the Doctrin of the Reformation must Protestants be forced against their judgments to deny Real Presence and supremacy because Lutherans say its wicked Doctrin and why must Luther Jlliticus Flaccius and others be forced to deny those Tenets tho Protestants or Papists judge them to be damnable I let each one believe what he thinks to be the Doctrin of Scripture and he will still be a true Reformed Child Ismael Does not our Reformation teach that it 's possible to all men assisted with Gods Grace to keep the Commandments Isaac This is the Doctrin of the Church of England and consequently of the Reformation It 's also the Doctrin of the Reformation delivered out of Scripture as interpreted by Luther Calvin Willet and several others that its impossible to any man assisted with what Grace soever to keep the Commandments None has euer yet saies our great Calvin and God has decreed none shall ever keep the Commandments Again The law and Commandments were giuen vs to no other end but that we should be damn'd by them in as much as that it is impossible for vs to do what they command The same Doctrin is taught by Luther in several places of his Works by Willet and by our Brethren the Gomarists of Holland and many of our french Synods Believe which you please both Doctrins are of the Reformation Jt's also the Doctrin of Luther and Calvin that God does not cast men into hell because their sins deserve it nor save men because they merit it but meerly because he will have it so He crowns those who have not deserved it saies Luther and he punishes those who have not deserved it t is Gods wrath and seuerity to damn the one 't is his Grace and mercy to saue the other Calvin also Men are damn'd for no other cause but because God will have it so he is the cause and author of their damnation their damnation is decreed by God when they are in their Mother's womb because he will have it so this is also the belief of our Gomarists in Holland of many french Churchs and of several learned Calvinists tho the Church of England denies this Doctrin none will dare say it s not the Doctrin of the Reformation because its Scripture as interpreted by such Eminent men of our Church Ismael J will neuer believe such execrable Doctrins nor will J euer be of any Congregation which believes them Isaac J do not advise you to believe them but to giue others leaue to believe them if they think them to be the Doctrin of Scripture as Luther Calvin Willet Gomarists and others do you must not if you be a true Reformed Child hinder any man from believing nor be displeased with him for believing what he judges in his conscience to be the Doctrin of Scripture for this is our Rule of faith Will not you be of the Congregation and Religion of those who follow Scripture as their Rule of faith and Believe what they judge in their conscience to be the Doctrin of Scripture Ismael Yes J will and am of such a Congregation for this is the Rule of faith of the Reformation Isaac Why then you must be of the same Congregation with the Gomarists Luther Calvin and the others who believe those which you call execrable Doctrins because they follow Scripture as they vnderstand and believe those Doctrins because they judge them to be of Scripture you both follow the same Rule one goes one way and the other an other and both are of the Reformation The Church of England vnderstands by Scripture that God is not the Author nor cause of sin that he does not force vs to sin who doubts but that this is there fore the Doctrin of the Reformation But Calvin Brentius Beza and several others vndestand by Scripture that God is the cause and author which forces our Will to sin that man and the deuil are but Gods instruments to commit it that murthers incests blasphemies c are the works of God that he makes vs commit them and who doubts but this also is the Doctrin of the Reformation being Scripture as interpreted by such eminent and sound judgments God saies Calvin directs moues inclins and forces the Will of man to sin in so much that the power and efficacy of working is wholy in him man nay and satan when he impells vs Being only Gods instruments which he vses for to make vs sin Zuinglius Willet Beza teach the same VI. DIALOGUE ISMAEL J am weary of hearing such horrid blasphemies my heart trembles to heare you say that such abominable Tenets may be believed according our Rule of faith and Principles of our Reformation I beseech you let me hear no more of such stuff J conceive very well that mens judgments and consciences are not to be constrain'd to believe or deny this or that Tenet because the Pope or his infaillable forsooth Church wil have it so Isaac and must they be constrain'd to deny or believe because the fallible Church of England or France will have it so Ismael No J do not say they must have patience and heare me speake a whyle J say that Scripture must be our Rule of faith and not any Pope or Church or Congregation and that wee are no to be forced by any to believe but what wee vnderstand to be true by Scripture and that if wee judge by Scripture any Doctrin to be fals and contrary to Gods Word wee must not be forced to believe it but wee must not abuse this
liberty that wee should have libertie for to believe or deny supremacy figurative Presence Communion in one or both kinds and such other inferior Truths controverted among Christians and that each Congregation may in such Articles believe as it vnderstands by Scripture to be true may pass and it s practis'd in our Reformed Churchs But that wee should run so farr as to have libertie by our Rule of faith to believe or deny the Fundamental and chief Articles of Christianity as the Trinity Incarnation Divinity of Christ c. that libertie ought not to be giuen our Reformation very wisely and piously permits the Lutherans to believe one thing the Presbyterians an other the Protestants an other and so of the rest and all are true Reformed Children because each of them believes as they judge by Scripture to be true but the Reformation has neuer giuen not neuer will giue liberty to interpret Scripture against the fundamental articles of Christanity wee must be moderat and keep our rambling fancies within compass and if any should judge and interpret Scripture in favor of any scandalous and abominable Tenets against Christianity and good Manners he must be checkt and not commended this moderation the Church of England vses and will never permit the contrary Isaac J percevie a greate deale of Popish blood to run in your veins and that if you and your Church of England were in pâ—ower at the beginning of our Reformation wee should neuer have had a Luther Calvin Beza or such other noble and renowned Reformers by what J gather from your discourse J do not see the breth of an inchs difference betwixt the Church of Rome and you and your Church of England for the Church of Rome will not stick to grant that Gods Word alone is her Rule of faith but so that none must believe any sense of it but as she believes it nor interpret any text but receive her interpretation of it The Church of England has Scripture for her Rule of faith and gives vs libertie for to interpret vnderstand and believe som texts of it as each one thinks best and so permits Presbyterians to deny Episcopacy Lutherans to deny Figurative Presence c. and confesses they are all her Brethren of the Reformation but she will give no libertie at all for to interpret other Texts but all must vnderstand them as she does or all must be heretiks and damn'd men No that text My father and I are one must be interpreted to signifie the Unitie in Nature of the Father and son as the Church of England believes none must interpret it otherwise so that the difference betwixt the Popish Church and that of England is the first giues vs no liberty at all the second giues us som libertie the first robs vs of all the second but of the one half the Rule of faith in Popery is Scripture as interpreted by the Pope and Councils the Rule of faith in England as to som Articles is Scripture as interpreted by the Church of Enggland and as to other Articles Scripture as each Person of sound judgment vnderstands it and thus Protestants are but half Papists and half Reformed and both these ingredients will never make a good compound Let any vnbyass'd and impartial man judge if the Church of England proceeds justly in this for if our Rule of faith be Scripture as each Person of sound judgment vnderstands it as she mentions in her 39. Articles and as the whole Reformation believes if wee are not to be constraind to believe any Church Council or mans sense of Scripture if wee do not judge by the Word of God its true by what authority Rule or reason can the Church of England give me libertie to vnderstand and believe som texts as J please and deny me libertie for to vnderstand and believe others as J judge by Scripture they ought to be vnderstood J pray observe well this discourse heer are Luther Calvin Beza Zuinglius and our other first Reformers they interpret som texts against the Doctrin of Rome and others against the Doctrin of the Church of England they are praised for the first and esteemed Apostolical Reformers because without any regard of what the Church of Rome said they freely taught and believed what they judged by Scripture to be true why must not they be praised and esteemed true Reformers also for not regarding what the Church of England or any other saies but teach the impossibility of Gods Commandments the sufficiency of faith alone and all those other Tenets which you so much mislike since they judge by Scripture that to be the true Doctrin are they bound to submit their judgments to the Church of England more than to that of Rome Ismael But in those Tenets they do not only contradict the Church of England but all Christian Churchs and Congregations for all will say those are wicked and scandalous Doctrin Isaac And if they judge by Scripture that those Tenets are not such but sound and good Doctrin may not they believe them tho all the world and ten worlds did gainsay them is not Scripture our Rule of faith and are wee to regard what any Church or all Churchs say further than wee find by Scripture that they say well But being these Tenets which you call horrid blasphemies displease you I 'll change my discourse and because I see you are Popishly inclined J will shew you how by the Principles of our Reformation you can be as good a Papist as the Pope one principle excepted wherin you must dissent from the Church of Rome if you intend to remain a true Reformed Child Ismael You promise too much and more than J desire to know J don't desire to have any Communication with the Pope I know by the Writings of our Authors what kind of beast he is Isaac By your favor you may believe the Popes are worthy honest and godly men many Drs. of our Reformation and our Travellers to the Court of Rome give this testimonie of them you may also believe that Popes and Cardinals are knaves and Atheists who looke on Scripture as a Romance and deny the Incarnation of Christ for Calvin saies so and would never have said it if it had not been true but beware not to speake so in Rome or they 'l lodge you where honest Taylor the Quaker was nor in Spain or they 'l stop your mouth with an Inquisition faggot Ismael J care not what the Pope or Cardinals are but J would gladly know what religion and Congregation you are of for wheras you are my immediat instructor it behoues me to know what religion you have Isaac As to my Religion I doubt not but that my Readers will be devided in their judgments of me if a Papist reades me hee 'l sweare I am an Atheist but J hope he will not pretend to be infallible as his Pope if a Protestant hee l say I am a Papist and that my drift is to cast
Tenets the Doctrin of the Reformation or consistent with its Principles Isaac The kings supremacy is vndoubtedly the Doctrin of the Reformation because it s judged by the Church of England to be of Scripture yet not only the Quakers Presbyterians Anabaptists and other Congregations judge it s not of Scripture but as erroneus a Tenet as that of the Popes supremacy Calvin 6. Amos saies They were vnaduised people and blasphemers who raised king Henry the VIII so far as to call him the head of the Church but also that no Civil Magistrat can be the head of any particular Church is the Doctrin of the Centuriators cent sept pag. 11. of Cartwright Viretus Kemnitius and many others who doubts then but that in the Principles and Doctrin of the Reformation you may deny the Kings Supremacy tho the Church of England believes it The Popes Supremacy is the Doctrin of Popery who doubts it but it s also the Doctrin of the Reformation for many of our Eminent Drs. haue judged it to be the Doctrin of Scripture as Whitgift who cites Calvin and Musculus for this opinion but its needfull wee relate som of their express words I do not deny saies Luther but that the Bishop of Rome is has been and ought to be the first of all I believe he is aboue all other Bishops it s not lawfull to deny his supremacy Melancton saies no less that the B. of Rome is aboue all the Church that it is his Office to govern to judge in controversies to watch ouer the Priests to keep all Nations in conformity and vnity of Doctrin Somaisius The Pope of Rome has been without controversie the first Metropolitan in Italie and not only in Italie nor only in the West but in all the world the other Metropolitans have bin chief in their respective districts but the pope of Rome has bin Metropolitan and Primat not only of som particular Dioces but of all Grotius has expresly the same Doctrin and proves this supremacy belongs to the Pope de Iure Divino J pray consider if these Drs. be not men of sound judgment and of eminent learning and credit in our Reformation and if our Doctrin be Scripture as such men vnderstand it consider I say with what justice can this Doctrin be called Popery more than Reformed Doctrin As for Transubstantiation it contains two difficulties first if the Body of Christ be really in the Sacrament and this Real presence the Lutherans defend to be the Doctrin of Scripture as well as the Papists why then should it be called Popish more than Reformed Doctrin the second is if the substance of bread be in the Sacrament togither with Christs Body Lutherans say it is Papists say it is not but that there is a Transubstantiation or change of the whole substance of bread into the Body of Christ but hear what Luther saies of this that wee call Popish Doctrin I give all Persons libertie to believe in this point what they please without hazard of their salvation either that the bread is in the Sacrament of the Altar or that it is not Would Luther have given this liberty if Transubstantiation had not been the Doctrin of the Reformation as well as any other Calvin also and Beza affirm that Luther's Doctrin of the coexistence of Christ's Body and the bread is more absurd than the Popish Doctrin of the existence of the Body alone if therefore wee be true Reformed and safely believe the Doctrin of Luther which is the most absurd much more will we be of the Reformation by believing that of the Papists which is less Communion in One kind is the Doctrin of the Reformation no less than Communion in both for besides that Luther saies They sin not against Christ who vse one kind onely seeing Christ has not commanded to vse both and again tho it were an excellent thing to vse both kinds in the Sacrament and Christ has commanded nothing in this as necessary yet it were better to follow peace and Vnity than to contest about the kinds but also Melancton who in the opinion of Luther surpasses all the Fathers of the Church expresly teachs the same Doctrin and the Church of England Statut 1. Edward VI. commands That the Sacrament be commonly administer'd in both kinds if necessitie does not require otherwise mark he saies but Commonly and that for som necessity it may be receved in one lastly th◠sufficiency of one kind in the Sacrament is plainly set down by our Reformed Church of France in her Ecclesiastical Disciplin printed at Saumur chap. 12. art 7. The Minister must give the bread in the supper to them who cannot drink the Cup provided it be not for contempt And the reason is because there are many who cannot endure the tast of Wine wherefore it often happens among them that som persons do take the bread alone and truly if som of our Ministers in England do not give better wine than they are acustomed who very irreverently serve that holy Table with naughtie trash it s much to be feared that our flock will also petition to be dispens'd with in the Cup because there are som of so delicat Palats that they cannot endure the tast of bad Wine Now you may admire the injustice of the Papists in condemning our Reformed Doctrin and Doctors as Hereticks wheras those Tenets are believed by many of vs as well as by them and the groundless severity of our Congregations in exclaiming against that Doctrin it being the Doctrin of the Reformation wheras so many eminent men of our own judge it to be of Scripture Ismael Wheras I see people persecuted by the Church of England for these Tenets I can hardly be perswaded they are the Doctrin of the Reformation at our next meeting wee will pursue this discourse the Bell rings for morning Prayers A Dieu VII DIALOGUE ISAAC You come from Church as I guess by the Common Prayer booke I see in your hands I pray let me see the Kalender of it if it be à la mode nouvelle which was made by the Church of England since his Majesties restauration Ismael Why have you met any thing in it which shocks you Isaac Shock me No Doctrin or practice of any Congregation or man of sound judgment of our Church can shock me you know I pleade for libertie to believe and practise as each one judges by scripture to be true and good But I observe in your Kalender you have a day consecrated to S. Ann in the month of of July I would gladly know what Ann is this which the Church of England honors so much Ismael It 's Ann the Mother of the Virgin Mary Isaac Is 't possible J thought it was Ann Bolen the mother of our Virgen Elizabeth J am sure the Church of England is more obliged to her than to the other but as you have put heer the
assured means for to know what sense of it he would have vs believe Ismael And what Religion shall J profess if J lay Scripture asyde Isaac The same which now you have by Scripture that 's to say whatever you judge to be the true Worship of God be sure to profess a reverence for Scripture and seem to believe its the Word of God least you may scandalize weake Brethren pretend allwaies that your sentiments are grounded vpon the Text but betwixt you and God believe whatever you think to be true worship God as you-judge he is to be worshipt and that 's the way to liue in peace do you think but that those Noble Spirits which they call the Wits of England have a good Religion in publick they speake reverently of the Bible but we know what they have and do declare in their privat discourses that it s but a Romance or meer fiction Do you think but that there was a Religion in England before it saw Gregori's Emissaries Austin and his Monks what need therefore of a Bible for to have Religion Were not the Swinfeldians a religious Congregation and of the Reformation to yet they cared not for Scripture but grounded their belief vpon Gods inspiration and inward speech to the heart Ismael If I were not well acquainted with you and had not very convincing proofes and signal testimonies of your pietie solid Religiosity and Christianity I would judge you by this last peece of your discourse to be an impious Atheist or Pagan and J wonder that so good a Christian as I know you to be should speake so irrevently of the Bible and so much in commendation of Paganism as you do There was indeed a Religion in England before they knew what Scripture was but that Religion was Paganism which Austin and his Companions happily banisht from our Land Isaac Happily do you call an exchange of Paganism for Popery introduced by Austin a Happiness is it not generally believed in our Reformation and most strongly proved of late by that incomparable Wit and Pen-man Doctor Stillingfleet that Popery has as much of Idolatry as Paganism our land therefore had in Paganism as good a Religion as it received by Austin in Popery does not this our noble Champion and most of the Scribes of the Church of England teach that Popery is a saving Religion that we may be saued in the Church of Rome if Popery not withstanding it be Idolatrie as they say be a saving Religion how can they deny but that Paganism is also a saving Religion what need had our Forefathers therefore to abandon Paganism why was it not left in the land Ismael Whatever may be said of Popery it cannot be denied but that Christianity is better than Paganism the expulsion therefore of Paganism by Austin was a Happiness because by it Christianity was introduced and establisht in our Kingdom Isaac Alas Ismael if England had bin as well informed of the merit of Paganism when first Christianity was preached it had never exchanged the one for the other Ismael What not Paganism which adored a Multitude of Gods for Christianity which adores but one Not Paganism which adored Iupiter Saturn Venus c. who were Deuils and Evil Spirits or wicked Men who caused themselves to be adored for Christianity which adores the onely true immortal and eternal Deytie Isaac You speake with the vulgar sort and believe as you have bin instructed by your Ancestors I confess the Apostles and Ancient Doctors of Christianity do teach that the Gods of the Gentils were Deuils or Euil Spirits I confess also all the Christian World since the first preaching of the Ghospell was so perswaded grounded vpon Scripture which in several places saies the Gods of the Gentils were Deuds grounded vpon the Doctrin of the Apostles and their Successors the Fathers of the Church and the World being perswaded by the Apostles by the Doctors Fathers and Preachers of Christianity that the Gods which the Pagans adored were but Deuils which by sorceries and marvelous works deceiued mankind and made themselves to be adored as Gods all men were ashamed to adore but Deuils forsooke Paganism and embraced Christianity And all was but a meer Policy of Popery to cast so much dirt and calumnie vpon Paganism and make its Gods but Deuils for to introduce and establish Christianity Dr. Stillingfleet in his Charge of Idolatry against the Chuâ—ch of Rome Pag. 40. and 41. saies plainly that the Pagans are charged with more than they were guilty of page 7. saies that Iupiter adored by the Pagans was so farr from being an Arch-Devil in the opinion of S. Paul that he was the tru God blessed for ever more that the Pagans adored but one suprem and Omnipotent God which they called Jupiter and which they did believe to be neither a Devil nor a Man but a true and the first and chiefest of the Gods and that the rest of the Gods which they adored they looked vpon them as vpon Inferior Deyties and gave them no other adoration but such as the Papists give to their Saints If therefore the Pagans adored the tru God under the name of Jupiter and the other Gods but as inferior Deyties as the Papists do their Saints was it not injustly don by the Ancient Fathers and Teachers of Christianity to have imposed vpon the World and made vs believe the Pagans adored but Devils and Evil Spirits have not the Pagans Ryght and justice on their syde for to pleade before our wyse and religious Parliament that Paganism may be restored or at least tolerated and Iupiter with the rest of the Gods may be adored as formerly they were first because Paganism is no more Jdolatry than Popery as Dr Stillinfleet Mr Burnet and other Reformed Writers prove convincingly secondly because that Paganism having bin banisht out of our Land vpon the fals information of our first Teachers that it was an Adoration of Devils or Evil Spirits and wicked debaucht Men who by counterfeited wonders and cheate gained the Peoples adoration since that Dr Stillingfleet Mr. Burnet and other Reformed Writers will make it out that the Pagans adored no Devils but One tru Omnipotent suprem God blessed evermore which they called Iupiter and the rest of the Gods as inferior Deities as Papists do their Saints and will prove that the Pagans were charged by the first DDrs of Christianity and by all our Ancestors with more than they were guilty of why should not Paganism be restored again to the Land and heard to speake for itsselfe and Dr Stillingfleet and his zealous companions be lycenc't to pleade for them and for holy Iupiter so fouly misrepresented by Antiquity as to be believed an Arch-Devil whom Dr. Stillingfleet will prove to have bin a tru God blessed for ever more Ismael The more J discourse with you the more J am perplexed in mind J bid you a Dieu and do confess J carry with me from your discourse a dislike of what