Shew you in what part of any saying almost the errour doth not lie commonly the disease is epidemicall over the whole passage The night is too far spent for them to think that men will judge errour or truth by their magisterial votes Why make you not a right use of this departure of the night Is it not a shame to hold such ungodly opinions in the day of the Gospel-light They that are drunk with heresie are drunk even in the day T' was bad to be so in the night of Popery 't is abominable in the day of Reformation what a brazen brow hath heresie to out-look the light of the Scripture nay to put it out Oh that I could hear more of you say to your errours as the angel to Jacob let me goe from you for the day appeareth Well take heed if you still goe on to commit night sins in the day time lest you shorten Englands day of grace and hasten her night of Woe If ever a generation threatned such a night heretiques do I assure you Sir Your new light hath in a manner put out your old heat For your saying That the night is too far spent to judge errours by the votes of Ministers We blesse God that the night is so far spent as that we see how to judge your errours by the light of the Scriptures a light that you would fain eclipse for fear of discovery a light which if you loved you would abominate these errours of darknesse love the Scriptures and hate the ministers if you dare if you can Men have put away those childish things Sion Coll. visit pag â— Answ to beleeve as the Church beleeves And in stead thereof Sectaries put it away as a childish thing to beleeve as the word beleeves you have made a fair change There is not so much as any one syllable in the Covenant that engageth any man to the Presbyteriall Government Sion Col. visit p. 10. Answ But are there not many syllables in the Covenant that engage 1. To a Government 2. To a Government according to the word of God If to a Government What will then become of Independency which any further then it shapes it self to Presbytery is the very negation of Government and as used by you stands upon no other leg then a necessary violation of the Covenant by a Toleration of all errours heresies and ungodly opinions in the world 2. If the Covenant engageth to a Government according to the word of God and the example c. tremble to quetch against Presbytery the most agreeable Government to the Word and if it be not so Answer the many learned and pious Tractates that have been put out for it both by Scots and English Answer the learned labour of the Assembly Mr Ruther surds Mr Gillespies books and the book entituled Jus divinum Regiminis Ecclesiasticâ— but you have a compendious way of Confutation you blow away whole books with the dictates of three or four lines Was it in the integrity of your hearts Sion Col. visit p. 11. to discharge your duty conscientiously that you charge him with errours against the Divine Authority of the Scripture who hath bent himself with the uâ—termost of his endâ—avours for the vindication of their Divine Authority and â—ho hath laboured in this argument as much and with as much faithfulnes as any of you all Was it from the lowlinesse of your heart Answ that you prefer your self before the moâ—â— learned and pious of the Subscribers Or was it from the logick of your head that you form such a childish argument viz. You may not be taxed with errours about the Authority of the Scriptures because you have written in vindication of them Did not Faustus Rhegiensis write a Treatise Baron Annal. Ton. 6 an 490. Sect. 31. Vid. â—â—id Hispal de Script eccl cap. 14. Sune Scriptura Prophetica Apostolica â—t verbum Deâ—recipienda â—â—quaÌ„ quaestionem indignam alioqui quâ— tractetur apud theoloâ—os Christâ—anos peperit nobis hoc tempore Swenkfeldij deliratie c De verbe Dei l. 1 c 1. De gratiâ libero arbitrio against the Pelagians and yet Dum captiosè videri vellet pugnare contra Pelagianos compertus suit ' Pelagio favens novus dogmatista It matters not what men say that themselves doe but what others that are wise and holy men see that they doe May not Bellarmine be charged with errours about the Authority of the Scriptures that hath labeured in the justifying of their Divine Authority against the Schwenckfeldians with incomparable more sinews and strength than you have ever done in your way When did your pen ever as his did drop such a passage as this that the very question Whether the Propheticall and Apostolicall writing is to be received as the Word of God is unworthy to be handled by any Christian divine had it not been made necessary by the deliration of Swenckfeldius and the Anabaptists denying it Whereas your work is to preach and write against all Propheticall and Apostolicall writings whether Originals or Translations Remember with what consident heat you rose up for the most horrid heretikes Antiseripturists and Antitrinitarians c. In your Hagiomastix and then consider whether your saying that you bear the errours of the times as a burden upon your soul is to be beleeved must this your saying that errours are your burden excuse you from erroneousnes when you say that this opinion that God is not one in three persons is not contrary to any manifest word of God and this you say in that place that your opponents neither have proved Hag. p. 35. nor can prove Though you say that errours are your burden must you not be blamed for saying That you know holy and heavenly Christians Hag. p. 36. who deny that God is one in three persons Must your own titles and pretences upon or in any book exempt you from a Charge when as the matter couched under them condemns you Nay ought you not to be the more blamed for your cloaked impiety and for your reall enmity to the Scriptures under appearances and seeming friendship Tuta frequensque via Doe I not plainly Sion Col visited p. 11. clearly and distinctly enough declare unto the world in my Treatise concerning the Divine Authority of the Scripture In what sense I hold the Scriptures whether Translations or Originals to be the word of God and consequently the foundation of Christian Religion and in what not Let the 13 and 15. pages of my said book be lookt upon Therefore you complain that the Subscribers barely cite these words from your pen Questionlesse no writing whatsoever whether Translations or Originals are the foundation of Christian Religion without citing those other words of yours pag. 13. wherein in a true sense you assert them to be the Word of God Your self is the first man that ever I heard to commend you for clearnesse Answ plainnesse and
distinctnesse your writings throughout have more of words then matter and yet more of mud then either But At your command I shall consult the pages wherein you would be thought to say The Scriptures are the Word of God In the former as also pag. 17. where you seem to be most full in declaring your sense You say to this purpose That you grant the matter and substance of the Scripture The gracious counsels to be the Word of God as That Christ is God and man that he died that he rose again c. You are come to a high pitch of ingenuity I assure you These things you having said you thinke you may lawfully charge the Ministers with craft and wickednesse for setting down barely that conclusion of yours pag. 18. Questionles no writing whatsoever whether Translations or Originals are the foundation of Christian Religion 1. But what will please you The Subscribers are in some strait how to content you when they only set down the conclusion and result of your words you say they deal wickedly because they expresse no more and when they cite a whole page you say they doe it that they may represent you to the Reader for a man of monstrous and prodigious errours one of which cannot be expressed or contained in fewer words then would fill a whole page Yet on the other side If they pitch only upon the errour you say they cite your words barely and suppresse craftily your sense 2. Though the Subscribers did set down this your Conclusion without reciting your long-winded passages which you premise yet deserve they not this your reviling Div. author of Scrip p. 18. as if they had wrong'd you For the conclusion being the result of the premisses if your conclusion be crazie and hereticall your premises must needs be so too and therefore the setting of them down would not have helped you at all and if the conclusion be not hereticall why doe you not defend it against the accusation of the Subscribers which you neither doe nor dare to doe but only send the Subscribers to the thirteenth page leaving the poor eighteenth to mercie 3. Suppose you had in the thirteenth page written the truth therefore ought you not to be blamed for writing errours in the eighteenth page Nay ought you not the rather to be blamed Suppose that found truths were laid on the top of your book might you not be blamed for laying rotten errours at the bottome Satan knows that the one must make the other vendible and the Subscribers did but labour herein to spoil his mercat 4. I suppose the subscribers did not set down your sense concerning the divine Authority of the Scriptures in the thirteenth page because it had no relation either clear or doubtfull to the passage in this eighteenth page For in the thirteenth page you say you assert the Scriptures to be the word of God and here in the eighteenth page you come with your Questionlesse no writing whatsoever whether translations or originalls are the foundation of Christian Religion But you seem to complain that you who have granted the Scriptures i.e. the gracious counsels matter substance of them to be the word of God should be blamed though you say Questionlesse no writing whatsoever is the foundation of Christian religioâ— but mistake not for though you have granted what no Papist nay what no christian in a sense did ever yet deny yet upon what ground have you granted even this you give the reader nothing to shew for this grant but only your good nature and ingenuity you tell me pag. 13. that you beleeve the precious counsells matter and substance of the Scripture to be of divine authority but though you beleeve so yet what ground give you me to beleeve so with you none I am sure p. 10. Div. Autho. where you deny both the English Scriptures and the Hebrew and Greek Originals themselves to be the word of God Div. Autho. p. 10. Nor give you me any ground to beleeve with you that the counsells of the scriptures are the word of God in p. 12. when you say That they who have the greatest insight into the originall languages yea and who beleeve the Scriptures unto salvation Div. Autho. p. 12. cannot upon any sufficient ground beleeve any originall copie under heaven whether Hebrew or greek to be the word of God with a world of such stuff Nor give you any ground to beleeve the matter counsells c. of the Scripture to be the word of God p. 18. where you say Questionlesse no writing whatsoever whether translations or originalls are the foundation of Christian religion much lesse in that of Hag. p. 38. where in regard of the mortality of words you make the meaning of the originalls impossible to be certainly understood nay by all these passages of yours you hinder me from beleving as much as in you lieth that the matter substance counsells c. of the Scriptures are the word of God for how can any beleeve the matter substance c. of the Scripture to be the word of God when as he must be uncertain whether the written word or Scriptures wherein that matter is contained are the word of God or no I suppose when you say that the matter of the Scriptures represented in translations and originals is the word of God p. 17. you suppose that it should be beleeved for such but upon what ground ought I to beleeve it I hope you will not say because a province of London-Ministers saith it is to be beleeved nor barely because the spirit tels me is to be believed for the word of God 2 Pet. 1 19. for the spirit sends me to the written word and bids me by that to trie the spirits and tells me I must beleeve nothing to be from God or for my own eternall good but what I finde written I therefore desire to go to the written word as revealâ—d by God for the building my confidence upon the counsells and matter of the Scriptures as pardon through Christ c. But then J. Goodwin tels me this written word is not Gods word nor are any writings in the world Originals or Translations to be lookt upon as such If so they must be the word of vain man and so I have no more to shew for the precious truths that Christ died for sinners and lost man c. then mans word I pray consider what are become of your disciples to use your own phrase their soul provisions their hope of eternall blessednesse when as thus you deny the written word How doth my soul pitty your poor deluded followers who have such a soul starving or soul-poysoning shepheard set over them the Lord knows I hardly write these things with dry eyes Whereas therefore you send the subscribers and readers to your pages alledged I shall do the like and desire them to take notice that you make no distinction between the res credenda and the ratio
ΑΛΛΟΤΡΙΟΕΠῚΣΚΟΠΟΣ The Busie Bishop OR The Visitor Visited By way of Answer to a very feeble Pamphlet lately Published by Mr J. G. called Sion Colledge visited In which Answer his Cavils against the Ministers of London for Witnessing against his Errours touching the holy Scriptures and the power of man to good supernaturall are answered and the impertinency of his quotations out of the Fathers Martin Bucer and Mr Ball are manifested By WILLIAM JENKYN Minister of the Word of God at Christ-Church London Cum ex Scripturis arguntur haeretici in accusationem convertuntur ipsarum Scripturarum quasi non rectè habeant neque sint ex â—utoritate quâ—â— variè sint dictae quia non possit ex his inveniri veritas ab his qui nesci an t traditionem Iren lib. 3. adv haeres cap sc Haeretici Scripturarum Lucifugae Tert. de resur carn cap. quadrag sept nec habet quilquam quo surgere possit Ad vitam sacro nisi â—ursum nascitur orâ—u Proâ—p de ingrat cap. 15. non moribus illi scil gratiae Fiâ—mora non causis anceps suspenditur ullis LONDON Printed by A. M for Christopher Meredith at the Crane in Pauls Church yard and Tho. Vnder hill at the Bible in Woodstreet 1648. THE PREFACE TO THE READER More especially to the REVEREND AND LEARNED SUBSCRIBERS Of the late TESTIMONY to the TRUTH of CHRIST within the Province of LONDON Reverend and Beloved SHould the witnesses to truth want enemies they might justly question the truth of that to which they witnesse The Father of lies was not well pleased with your late testimony to the truth He hath exprest his dislike of it with much rage though blessed be God with more weaknesse Never was an Overseer so overseen as was this Bishop in his late visitation of Sion Colledge His Pamphlet speaks him busy but yet more blinde then busy He might with lesse disgrace have contain'd himself within his darker diocesse I mean the alley where he preacheth his errours His weaker eyes like those of the night-bird would have well endured that shady refuge but adventuring upon the wings of his late Pamphlet to oppose his feeble sight to the Sun of truth shining forth in the testimony he discovers such a dazeled and unable eye to guide the course of his wings that I accounted it a matter of no difficulty for any to chase and catch him in an answer His ambition made him so eager of putting out an answer to many men that he took no care at all to put out an answer to one question His other writings are below the most but this last peece was below himself Account it not therefore ambition Reverend Sirs that puts the weakest of your numbers upon undertaking him For the most of you â—â— have performed this task I should have accounted it an act of not to say too great condescention I finde not to my remembranâ—e throughout his papers one quotation taken out either of Scriptures Fathers or modern writers pertinently applied nor any thing like an argument to prove the thing he undertakes to shew viz. why his opinions should not be charged as erroneous But this his double defect he supplieth with abundant rage in opposing Christ in his Scriptures grace Ministers government his rage against the two last reaching up to heaven out of multitudes of instances that might be given take but two out of his Pamphlet 1. Concerning the government which the subscribers approve of he saith That the best successe which with any colour of truth Sion Col. visited p. 26. we can entitle the Presbyterian government unto is to snipp and keep under thriving branches I know he means not branches that thrive in heresies but clearly intends such branches as thrive in holinesse The Lord smite his conscience and touch his heart for this expression before it be wounded so as it will be beyond cure Concerning the Reverend Ministers of Christ in the city Sion Col. visited p. 19. he saith They Foment divisions Multiply distractions Obstruct the quiet composure and setling of things in the land speaks not my Lord just as if he were in his visitation and recompence no degree of all this unworthinesse with any considerable good would any Atheist in England have said more The genuine paraphrase is The Ministers are the troublers and Traitors of the Kingdome All their labours though never so successefull in converting and building up of souls amount not to the least considerable good The Kingdome might well be without them and they do more hurt then good And all this because they cannot conform to his apish inventions That dear respect which I bear to your calling and graces to your late testimony for the truth I might add to that sweet and gracious converse I have enjoyed and do frequently pertake of from you particularly some of you that are members of that Classis where providence hath cast me Especially if my heart be not the greatest liar in the world The love I bear to the Lord Jesus who hath loved me and given him self for me and who is the greatest sufferer of us all by this impure Pamphlet put me upon expressing my self in this endeavour to serve you I know not whether this busy Bishop intends to afford us a second visitation If he doth I hope he will come without invitation and be entertained without welcome even as a busy-body As for the reproaches of his meerly misled followers whether I escape them or sustain them I shall labour to blesse God and love them being assured should I have their stroke it would bein the dark by reason whereof a friend is sometimes strook in stead of afoe but when they have I say not a new but their old light they will love me both again and the more for such a blinde unkindenesse Som of them I know and affectionately love for whom my hearts desire is that they may be saved I desire them to know that I desire to say I can die I cannot be silent when the truths are struck at which I wish not to out-live My hearty request to them is like that of Moses to the People that they would depart from the tents of this man if his Preaching be like his writing that they would not feed upon chalk and coals in corners when the Lord Jesus hath provided them Pastors after his own heart and remember that under Praelacy they hated those doctrines as hell which now they advance to Heaven and that then they spent daies of fasting against those opinions which now they spend Sabbaths in hearing For acrimony if any they finde I desire them not to be offended 1 It s lesse then he deserved 2 more then ever I did bestoâ— upon all the men in the world besides him self put together 3 upon the using of it this charitable construction may be put that I lookt not upon him though some doe as past recovery My work in this short Treatise
was to answer hâ—s accusations against the Ministers for their transcribing his Errours in their Testimony My book would have swolne into a large volume had I handled the Points according to their own extent and according to the helps afforded by our Divines But I hope I have done enough to shew that he had no cause to complain of the Ministers transcriptions and that all his pretended allegations out of the Fathers Bucer and Mâ— Ball help him not at all but rather speak against him My multiplied occasions have hindered me from so speedy and large an Answer as may be expected but as it is Reverend and beloved friends you have it and my self to serve you in the things of Christ WILLIAM JENKYN From my Study at Christ Church Load Errata Page 4. marg read Paulâ—s voluit p 8. marg l 30. read de Christo l. 35. c. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 p. 8. l 23. r upheld p. 20. l 23. r. wherein you say c. p â—â— l ult r. tells mâ— it is to c p 23. l. 34. r. it is from God written p. 31. marg r abijcere possit p. 41. l. 24 r. and that truly l. 11. r. you did speak to c. p. 45. l. 33. â—â—jutorium p. 48 marg r. contendunt p 52. marg r Bacer in Iob 6.44 p. 5â— l 32. r with the fathers p. 52 marg r. etesiph ΑΛΛΟΤΡΙΟΕΠῚΣΚΟΠΟΣ OR The Busie Bishop RELIGION never had greater enemies then those of her own house Sion Coll. visited p. 1. And a little after It was never well with RELIGION since the Ministers c. Answ Your work is to kill Religion but your way to do so Ans I perceive is to kisse it You seem to make towards the lips of Religion but your aim is at her fifth rib You advance her head in your Preface but 't is to break her neck in your book In the pretence of your Preface you raise up Religion to the clouds In the performance of your book you lay it among the clods for must not Religion needs fall to the ground when her foundation upon which she stands is pluckt away And takes not â—e away the foundation of religion who denies the Scripture to be that foundation Div. Authority of the Scripturâ—â— p. 18. And doth not John Goodwin deny the Scripture to be that foundation of Religion What else is the English of these words in terminis his own viz. Questionlesse no writing whatsoever whether translations or originals are the foundation of Christian Religion Away with your hypocriticall exclamations against the enemies of Religion and your Crocodiles tears in that Religion cannot be well for the Ministers were your wit but hair to keen as your will we should in a short time neither have Religion nor Minister left among us But to your stuff The greatest enemies to Religion are in her own house Sion Col. visit p. 1. Answ True For of your own selves saith Paul shall men arise speaking penverse things to draw away Disciples after them Act 20.30 And if of all that are in Religions own house heretikes be her greatest enemies What will become of John Goodwin It was never well with Christian Religion since the Ministers of the Gospel so called by themselves Sion Col. visit p 1. and so reputed by others for want of knowing better cunningly vested that priviledge of the Church of being the pillar and ground of truth in themselves First Answ For the Lectio Your meaning I suppose was and had not rage against the Ministers made you write non-sense you would have said thus The Ministers cunningly vested themselves in or with the priviledge of the Church and not as you doe The Ministers vested the priviledge of the Church in themselves A man may be vested in or with a priviledge but it 's very improper to say a priviledge is vested in or with a man as improper as to say a garment is vested in the man that wears it t were better to say the man is vested in the garment It s a sign your pen is drunk with madnes it doth so stagger and stammer These faults of pure weaknesse I should not regard did I observe either humility in you under the sense of greater in yourself or ingenuity in you in passing by smaller in others But why finde I fault with the vest the phrase of your book The dusty cloaths of your words are good enough for the crooked carcasse of your matter This is Titubare in limite for I may well call the matter crooked if to be true be to be straight for I finde two abominable falsities within the space of two lines 1. That the Ministers of the Gospel are only so reputed by men for want of knowing and considering better 2. That they have vested themselves with the priviledge of being the ground and pillar of truth 1. You say these Ministers of the Gospel are only so reputed for want of considering better Answ 1. 'T is your sorrow to see that they are so much as reputed Ministers But Sir 't is your sin to say they are no more then Ministers reputed If they be no Ministers why disprove you not their calling Why bring you not an argument in stead of a scoff against them But you may write thus with much praise from your deluded followers and little pains to your feeble self 2. Tell me of one man either Minister or private Christian differing from the subscribers only in the point of Independency who dares say thus with you I have heard sundry of the Synodicall dissenters preach and professe the contrary 3. Or are you now got a step or two above Independency acknowledge you any Ministers of the Gospel at all whether your self or any other I observe that you who were wont to stile your self The Minister of a Church such an one as 't is in Colemanstreet now in this last Pamphlet as if you had a minde to be lookt upon under another consideration word your self only Iohn Goodwin a servant of God and men I am sure of men I doubt whether of God haply the Delilah of a Congregation hath entised you to be tampering with the lock of our Ministery you have yeelded already to cast off the word Minister by the next you may have cast off the thing too 4. If you do account your self a Minister I pray tell me in your next which way you had your Ordination whether by that way which the Ministers of London had theirs who you say are no Ministers at all or whether you had it by a Culinary 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in one of your allies You tell the subscribers afterward of sacred unction in a jeer but know that no unction is the lesse sacred for not coming out of the kitchin Secondly You say The Ministers have vested themselves with the priviledge of the Church of being the ground and pillar of truth and it was â—â—ver happy since Answ I
but it bears the Image of weak and unworthy ones If the subscribers be learned and pious I fear they are as unlike you Answ as you say they are unlike their own Testimony But if their Testimony be not for piety and learning like themselves truly friend this your work is for impiety and ignorance just like you a thing upon which John Goodwin fecit need never be written And yet the first side in your late book against the Authority of the Scriptures in my apprehension was very unlike you I mean the verses under your picture which are a very jeer to you The verses say that in you are gathered the perfections of ten thousand men with their gifts and graces c. when as many know that you have more heresies and errours met in you then are dispersed among some thousands in the world and if your heresies unles you are lately impoverished could be bequeathed to ten thousand sectaries they might every one have a childes portion and have sufficient to live like such men when you are dead and gone It was therefore a passage as pernicious as proud which dropt from your pen in your Epistle to your book called The divine Authority of Scriptures where you say that you will endeavour when you are gone that your followers may have your spirit among them A single portion of it would be far too much Rom 12.2 'T were better it might be transformed while you live then be transmigrated when you die The Ministens book is a Testimony against the truths of Josus Christ It testisieth against this pretious truth of Jesus viz. Sion Col visi p. 2. No writing whatsoever whether originals or translations are the foundation of Christian religion wheneas this is asserted for a truth by the great Apostle 1 Cor. 3.11 Other foundation can no man lay but Jesus Christ T is a mercy that since you have so little of integrity Ans you have no more of intellect Think you your self able to woo thâ— Scripâ—res to afford you weapons against themselves Can you prove out of the Scripture that there is no Scripture You say Christ is the only foundation therefore not the Scripture But doth the one hinder the other May not Christ be the only foundation in point of mediation and the Scripture in point of manifestation and discovery May not Christ be the foundation upon which I build for salvation and the Scripture the foundation upon which I ground the knowledge of this Saviour I pray answer Whether do you ground your knowledge and belief that Christ is the only foundation of salvation upon this your cited place 1 Cor. 3.11 Other foundation c If you do not why do you alledge it to prove that Christ is the only foundation If you do ground your belief of Christ his being the only foundation upon this place why do you bring this Scripture to prove that Christ his being the foundation hinders the Scripture from being so Is it possible that the known distinction of â—ssendi and engâ—oscendi principium quod quo or a foundation personall and scripturall should be bid from the eyes of this seducer in chief Therefore do I acknowledge the Scriptures to be the foundation of religion because they are appointed by God for the sole manifestation of his will concerning our salvation by Christ we building our confidence that Christ is the only Saviour upon the Scripture which saith so Is my dependence upon a friend for a favour any hinderance to me from building my confidence upon his word also nay do I not therefore build any hopes upon him because upon his word his word revealing his will you do wickedly therefore and weakly to oppose Christ and his word Give me one protestant writer that ever argued thus with you The word is not our foundation because Christ is so I am sure the Apostle saith Eph. 2.20 that we are built upon the foundation of the Prophets and Apostles that is their doctrine and yet Christ was the corner stone for all that If you doubt whether by the foundation of the Prophets and Apostles be meant their doctrine concerning Christ Consult our learned and judicious expositours of that place * Quin fundamentum bâ—â— pro doctrina sunatur minâ—è dubâ—um est neque euim patriarch as nomin at aut pâ—oâ— reges sed â—oâ— solos qui offiâ—â—uÌ„ habehant docendiâ—â—aque locet Poulue fidem Ecclesie in â—ac doctrinâ— debere esse fundatam Calv. in loc Doctrinam Apostolorum prophetarum fundamento aedificij comparaâ— Pâ—sc inâ—oc Nos affirmamâ—â— sundamentuâ— illud quo nitititur ecclesiae fides esse doctrinam propheticaÌ„ ApostolicaÌ„ de Ceristo Rolloc in loc 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 c. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Chryl â—n loe Paulus per Apostolorum fundamentum doctrinaâ— Aposto lorum intelligit Whâ—t Q 2. con 4 de Monarch Pet. p 55â— Vid Chamier de Canone lib. 6. cap. 8. Calvins words are Quin fundamentum hic pro dectrinâ sumatur minime dubiumest and there 's no doubt saith he hut the foundation of the Prophets and Apostles is here put for doctrine Paul names not here the Patriarchs or godly Kings but those only who had the office of teaching and the faith of the Church is founded upon their doctrine Thus far Calvin In like manner Piscator who saith that Paul compareth the doctrine of the Apostles and Prophets to the foundation of a house See also what that learned Scot M. Rolloc saith upon the place We affirm that the foundation upon which the faith of the Church is updeld is the doctrine of the Apostles and Prophets of Christ To the same purpose also Chrysâ—stome and in their Controversies the learned Whitaker and Chamier who will inform you if understood You complain that this passage of yours is ranked among infamous and pernitious errours viz. That it is no foundation of Christian Religion to believe that the Scriptures are the word of God Believing you say of the Scriptures is an act of man Now no act of man is the foundation of Christian religion Only Christ is the foundation 1 Cor. 3.11 1. In that place of Hagiom out of which this infamous errour is taken you deal craftily or which is most like cloudily for your aim was to prove him guiltlesse who denieth the being of the Scriptures and not that forbeareth the believing of them For your argument Christ is the foundation and therefore not any act of man as the beleeving of the Scriptures 't is very false and feeble for though no act unto which man is enabled by God such as beleeving is a foundation in that sense in which Christ is upon whom we build the hope of our salvation to be obtained by his mediation Yet beleeving of the Scriptures as it is an assenting to a main and prime Credendum viz. that the Scriptures are by divine inspiration Arg lib 1. de doct Christ cap. 37. Tiâ—ubabit sides si
scripturarum divinarum vacollabit autheritas is a necessary foundation for other subsequent graces that are required in the Christian Religion and without which foundation all godlinesse and religion would in a short time fall to the ground no theologicall grace can be without saith and faith cannot stand if the authority of the Scriptures fall If beleeving can be no foundation of Christian religion why doth the holy Ghost give to faith the name of foundation Heb. 6.1 In these words not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works and of Faith towards God none will deny that the beleeving the Scriptures to be the word of God is both the ground and an effentiall part of a right faith towards God And therefore if the Apostle calleth faith towards God a foundation he must needs imply that faith towards the Scriptures is a foundation You cavill at the Ministers for saying they testifie to the truth and to their solemn league and covenant Sion Col. visited p. 3. do they mean say you that they give the same testimony to their solemn league and covenant which they do to the truth I observe your scornfull estranging expression Answ Their Covenant You disclalm it it seems you had as good to throw it off in your lines as in your life The Covenant is the Sectaries Shiboleth he cannot speak it plain you deal with the Covenant as the Spaniel with the water when you were swimming for your lives it did bear you up but now you are got to shore safe as you think you shake it off Why is it that throughout this Section you do so undervalue the covenant Is it for the good it hath done to the kingdome or the hurt you fear it may do to you or do you desire to make it break because you cannot make it bend and change as often as your interest doth But to your question do the Ministers give the same testimony to the Covenant that they do unto the truth of Christ I suppose you love to testifie much alike to both As for the Ministers you cannot inforce an equalizing or a prelation of either to other out of these their words And to our solemn league and covenant AND was wont to be a note copulative not comparative And yet I suppose the Ministers testifie with the same integrity and unfainednesse to the one with which they do to the other But note this zealot Paramount for the truths of Christ he who by denying the Scriptures fears not to destroy the word of truth thinks his ears defiled when with the covenant the Ministers do but name the word Truth Like the hypocriticall Pharisees who feared not to be murderers of Christ and yet were afraid of defilemenâ— by going into the Hall Joh. 18.28 I know not what testimony the Covenant is capable of Sion Col visited p. 4. unlesse they will call a regular full and through observation of it a testimony to it the best part of this testimony consisting in going before one another in a reall not a verball reformation You answer your self Ans You say a reall reformation is the best testimony to the covenant True And therefore say I not the only testimony Secondly Doth a reall observation of the covenant hinder a verball testimony to it nay doth it not enforce it I might deservedly question my reality for God and his cause If I would not expresse that reality in words upon occasion given 'T is possible indeed for the verball profession to be without the reall but not possible for the reall to be without the verball but you say the covenant is not capable of a verball testimony to it Alas poor Covenant It seems thou maist be well thought of but not well spoken off Thou maist be capable of a verball opposition and deniall as of being called an old almanack out of date but not of a verball approbation Thy wound is broader it seems then thy plaister But Thirdly How is it that you plead so much for the reall observation of the Covenant I fear not to further the reall but to hinder the verbal I dislike your pâ—ng of zeal for a reall reformation you plead for it only to get the greater advantage against it your heat of zeal for the covenant is like that of some herbs hot in the mouth cold in the stomack To inrich their title they add Sion Col. visited p. 4. As also against the errours and heresies c. Tell not the Ministers of loving rich titles Ans either for themselves or their books your boasting of your selves is as ridiculous as nausecus I pray who are they that assume to themselves or have beâ—owed upon them these titles in print The richly â—nointed A Preacher to the two greatest Congregations in England A heart the best headed and a head the best hearted of all the sons of men A man that hath the gifts and graces of ten thousand rare men met in one Men who look upon the word of Christ as impartially as men made of flesh and bloud are like to do in any juncture of time that may fall out Are not these swelling words these are enriched titles Mat. 21.28 Phil. 2.3 doth this savour of the spirit of Christ and his Gospel he was lowly in heart and bids each to esteem other better then themselves But they add against errours They had need for you are daily adding to errours But this touching of errours is the touching the apple of your eye and the gainfull occupation of your silver shrines 'T is observeable that all along in your book you give not the Reader the least intimation of a dislike of any particular errour though never so damnable mentioned in all the Catalogue Only in your 〈◊〉 age you tell the world that errouts are a great grief to 〈◊〉 heart and that you oppose them in your Ministery 't is a good to beleeve it as to go where 't is done you dare not come neer an expression of dislike to errours by twelve score and now the Ministers expresse their zeal against them how doth your render nature make you weep for Tammuz But there is no further matter if consequence in these words against the errours heresies Sion Col. visited p. 4. and blasphemies of the times c. then in the foregoing words A testimony to the truth of Jesus Christ Therefore these passages are broadly Tautologicall To rectifie you The Ministers in testifying for the truth c. Answ owned the Confession of faith and the doctrines of truth heâ—d forth in the Scripture and in saying against the errours beresies c. they disclaim and discover the things that are opposite unto them they have not the Sectarian art to be friends to truth and to be silent when errours that destroy truth are broached to look toward heaven and earth at the same instant The two fore-mentioned branches are therefore as far from being Tautologicall as you from being either Logicall or
credendi the matter to be beleeved and the ground of beleeving that thing the objectum materiale formale fidei the matters to be beleeved are those precious truths of God which you name p. 13. and such like the ground of beleeving them is the revelation of God in his written word Nor can any one beleeve those truths with a divine faith as the truths of God Hoc verbum quod multis vicib is multisque modâ—â—olim Deus proserre voluâ—t visum est ei lem literis libris ad Ecclosie suae usum consignare unâ— codem sem per manente verbo etsi non uno modo tradito Riv. Cat. Oath Par. 9. â— unlesse he first beleevs that they are revealed and made known by God This Revelation of God hath alwaies been the foundation of faith and as the Apostle Heb. 1.1 saith 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 God hath afforded this at divers times after divers manners to his Church sometimes by a lively voice at other times by writing the authority of the revelation being the same the manner of revealing divers * But now since the truths of God were expressed in writing what is the grouad of your faith but this it is written and if you deny the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 of the words and say that they are not from divine inspiration you must of necessity also deny the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 of the matter and hold that the matter which you say is only the word of God is unworthy of a Christians belief I pray what course took Christ and his Apostles to prove their doctrinall assertions Mat 44.6.7.10 Mat. 1.2 Mar. 9.12 Mar. 11.17 Luk. 18.31.22.37 24 44 46. Joh. 10.34 Act. 13.33 15.85 Rom. 3.4 10.81 9.13 11.26 12 19. 14 11. 13.9 â—â— 1 Cor. 1.19 1 Cor. 1.31 1 Cor. 2.9 9.9 1 Cor 15.54 2 Cor 9.9 Gal. 3.13 4.22 Heb 10.7 1 Pet. 11.6 Mar. 15.28 Act. 8.32.35 Rom. 9.17 10.11 11.2 Gal. 4. â—0 1 Tim. 5.18 1 Pet. 2.6 Mat. 21.42 26 56 Luk. 24.27.45 Act. 17.2 11. 18.28 Rom. 1.2 16.26 1 Cor. 15 3. and the matters they taught but by the Scriptures and when they would render them 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 fit for belief they evermore tell how it is written Consult with the places in the margin and you will finde that the matter substance precious counsells c. contained in the Scriptures are proved to be credenda things to be beleeved because they are written deny then the written word as you do in terminis to be the word of God and what formall object hath faith poor faith without a written word Yeeld your self to that evident Scripture Joh. 20.31 These things are written that yee might beleeve that Jesus is the Christ the son of God and that beleeving ye might have lift through his name God makes these matters Christ is the son of God and life is to he had through his name to be the objects and matter of my belief but God makes the ratio or ground of my beleeving of these matters to be their revelation by writing See also Act. 14.24 Paul saith he beleeved all that was written in the Law and the prophets So Rom. 15.4 Things were written aforetime that through the patience and comfort of the Scriptures we might have hope So if you beleeve not Moses writings how shall you beleeve my words Joh. 5.47 6. Therefore doth not your sending me only to the counsels matter substance of Translations and Originals as the Word of God and your deniall that the written Word is such clearly shew That you send me not to that Word of God which the Scripture every where speaks of but to some other the Scripture using to call the written Word of God the Scripture and very often though in a Translation The command of Christ Joh. 5.39 is to search the Scriptures and were not they the written Word How readest thou Luk. 10.26 Vnderstandest thou what thou readest Act. 8.30 and what Scriptures were those the Apostle calleth 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 given by inspiration of God meaneth the Apostle neither Originals nor translation or both rather It were easy to shew how in this point of your deniall the Scriptures for the foundation as faith and Scriptures oppose you so likewise sundry holy and learned writers that have had occasion to touch upon the subject Let these following asserting the Scriptures for the word of God and so the foundation of faith and Christian Religion suffice for the vindication of the written word from the contempt you cast upon it a Quo plenius impressius tam ipsum quam dispositiones voluntates adiremus instrumentum adjecit literaturae si quis velit de Deo inquirere inquisitum invenire invento credere credito deservire Tertul. Apol. cap. 18. That we might go to God his counsells and will more fully and vigorously he added the instrument of writing if any would enquire of God finde him beleeve in him and serve him Tertullian b Non per alios salutis nostrae dispositionem cognovimus quam per eos per quos Evangelium pervenit ad nos quod quidem tunc praeconiaverunt postea per Dei voluntatem in Scripturis nobis tradiderunt fundamentum columnam fidei nostrae futuâ—um Irenaeus Advers Here 's lib. 3. cap. 1 vide lib. 3. c. 2. We know not Gods disposall or ordering of our salvation but by those by whom the Gospel came to us which they formerly preached afterward by the counsell of God delivered to us in the Scriptures to be the foundation and pillar of our faith Irenaeus c Singuli Sermones syllabae apices puncta in divinis Scripturis plena sunt sensibus Hier in cap. 1. ad Eph. The severall speeches syllables tittles points in the divine Scriptures are full of sense Hier. d Persuasisti mihi Domine Deus non eos qui crederent libros tuos quos tantâ omnibus serè gentibus authoritate fundasti esse culpandos sed eos qui non crederent nec audiendos esse si qui forte mihi dicerent unde scis illos libros unius veracissimi Dei spiritu esse humano generi ministratos id ipsum enim maximè credendum erat Aug Conf lib. 6. O my Lord God thou hast perswaded me not that they who beleeved thy books which thou hast founded with so much authority in almost all nations were to be blamed but those who beleeved them not and that those were not to be heard who might haply say to me whence dost thou know that those books were administred to man-kinde by the Spirit of the only most true God for this thing was chiefly to be beleeved Augustine e 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Chry. hom 1. in Mat. If it be blame-worthy to stand in need of the writing of the Scripture and not to imbrace the grace of the spirit how great a fault is it after the enjoyment of
naturall men may doe such things whereunto God hath by way of promise annexed grace because they may beleeve c. Friend Fear you not God Did not your hand shake and your heart tremble when you wrote that the Ministers set down these words for the Error Doubtles men are naturall before they are spirituall For your position that naturall men may doe such things whereunto God hath by way of promise annexed grace how should I rejoice could I hope that the reason why you conceald it in Sion Coll. visit was remorse I observed a little before that you left out the word alwaies in setting down that Error the same with this in other words cited by the subscribers in their Testimony A naturall man by his naturall principles may attain that conviction which conversion alwaies follows I adde to what there I said I suppose by your naturall man who you say doth things to which God hath annexed acceptation you mean the same man that the Apostle speaks of Rom. 8.8 The man in the flesh now that man cannot please God Opera Anglica na contra junguâ— pag 8.8 Fateor non param nihi do uit dogma planè imptum a pertè Pelogia num obtruâ—i nostrae scholae c. sed Hominem posse ante justificatione a dum adhuâ— a Christo do nino est alâ—â—us impius facere bona opera quae fint Deo ita grata ut bis operibâ— Deus moveatur ad coâ— creadum plenam ad se coâ—versiâ—en Rivet Disp pag. 155. though your naturall man doth things acceptable to God Invert not Gods and natures order first let the tree be good and then the fruit But know if you still remain obdurate that your good friend Mr Bucer hath no more patience toward you but in down right terms calls you Pelagian for saith he 't is an impious and a Pelagian opinion that a man before justification and while out of Christ should be able to doe good works so acceptable to God that by these works God should be moved to bestow conversion upon him Only I confesse the learned Rivet p. 155. of his disputations with a little more moderation calls you among the rest a pargetted Pelagian If I rightly English his words incrustantes Pelagianismum And I pray consider how little you want of meritum de congruo But you prove your position That naturall men may doe such good works c. most lamentably because 't is possible say you they may beleeve But how then say I can they doe things accepâ—able to God before they beleeve if you make beleeving the reason of their acceptation And who knows not but that naturall men may beleeve viz. that they are such subjects as God works upon so as to make them beleevers but prove that they are able to beleeve while they are naturall men Help him logick let fallacia a bene divisis ad malè conjuncta be well heeded how should your poor people know your fullaâ—ies when you know them not your self They make me an Erroneous offender Sion Col. visit p. 16. for saying that to beleeve first that God is secondly that he is a rewarder of all those who diligently seek him is all the faith which the Apostle makes absolutely necessary to bring a man to God Heb. 11 6. Answ Still you would fain have the Scripture counted hereticall with your self but the Subscribers know how to distinguish between these two the holy Scriptures and your hereticall scriblings Your self not the Subscribers make you the Erroneus offender but not for these words viz. To beleeve that God is and that he is a rewarder c. is all the faith which is necessary to bring a man to God but for your saying immediately going before which you were afraid or ashamed to repeat viz. That all the world even those that have not the letter of the Gospel have yet sufficient means granted them of beleeving these two viz. That God is and that he is a rewarder c. You affirming that they who have only the heavens the Sun Moon and Starres to preach the Gospel unto them they also have reason sufficient to judge the same judgement with them who have the letter of the Gospel for they have the Gospel say you the substance and effect of it the willingnes of God to be reconciled to the world preached unto them by the Apostles aforesaid the Sun Moon and Starres What stuffe is here Have all the world sufficient means of beleeving these two 1. That God is Heb. 11.6 2. That he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him Had you understood that place of Scripture you would not have said so for the faith or belief there spoken of is evidently such a faith as whereby a man may come to God with acceptation The words are set down by the Apostle to prove that without faith no man can please God For faith he No man can acceptably come to God unlesse he beleeve that God is and that he is a rewarder of them that seek him strongly inferring that whosoever doth beleeve that God is and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him doth come to God in a way of pleasing him Judicious Calvin tells you thus upon the place Haec est ratio cur citra fidem null a Deo placeat quia nullus unquam accedit nisi qui credit Deum esse statueâ— remuneratorem esse omnibus qui eum quaerunt And a little after he saith the Apostle meaneth not that men should be perswaded that there is some or a God but he speaks this of the true God De vero Deo hoc praedicat and this reward is not to be referred to the dignity of works but to faith Haec remuneratio non ad operum dignitatem vel pretium sed ad fidem refertur Calv. in loc And Paraeus upon that place will inform you that those two heads of faith That God is and that God is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him are not to be understood Philosophically but Theologically that the eternall God is Father Son and holy Ghost and that he is a rewarder of them that seek him Evangelically by faith in Christ with the benefits of the Gospel pardon adoption sanctification glory c. And can Heathens by the Sun Moon and Starres doe this can they by the light of nature beleeve a trinity of Persons in unity of Essence if they doe they are better then your godly persons Hag. pag 36 who you say are holy and walk with God and yet beleeve not that God is one in three persons Ad coâ—nitieneâ— Deâ—per createras ex naturae lumine non aliter ducimur nisi quatenus Deus est earum principium causa non auâ—em earum â—ausa nisi per divinam suam cirtutem omnil us 〈◊〉 â—oâ—warem 〈◊〉 per creaturas cognitionem consequinon valemus nisi eam quae patri 〈◊〉
spiâ—â—â—i â—â—â—cto sâ—t communis quoâ—â—â— perâ—reaturas ad cognoscendam personarum 〈…〉 non possâ—m a pâ—râ—â—â—gere Gâ—â—â— de Trin. None saith Gerard can be led to the knowledge of God by the creatures but only so farre forth as God is their cause Now God is their cause by a divine power common to the three persons therefore by the creatures we can onely attain to knowledge of those things which are common to the three Persons wherefore certainly by the creatures we can never attain to the knowledge of the distinction of persons Name one heathen who did most diligently search into nature that did by the inspection of the creature know there was a trinity of persons And can the heathens by the works of creation have the discoveries of a mediator and have Christ made known to them and beleeve in him I am sure you never learned this of the Apostle Dicimus fideâ— in Christum non semper requiri ad justificationem sed fidâ—â— sâ—â—pliciter ut restatur Apo stolus Heb. 〈◊〉 in quo etâ—â—n additur 〈◊〉 â—idem 〈…〉 dam reqâ—â—â— credere quâ—â— Deus sit quod sit remâ—nera â—t illoruâ— qui ipsum quaerunt de fide verò in Christum nulla vel â—inima fit 〈◊〉 Râ—fot lib. de sat Christâ— cap. to p. 17â— who saith that faith comes by hearing Rom. 10. Or are you of Smalcius his judgement who faith that faith in Christ is not alwaies required to justification but faith simply and he proves it out of this very Scripture that you have here alledg'd Heb. 11.6 for the faith of heathens Sir blame me not if I be jealous of you as of one that favours socinianisme Sure I am you must either hold that heathens must attain faith in Christ by the enjoying of sun moon and starres or that the faith of the 11. of Heb. 6. which you say the heathens doe attain by the sun moon and startes is not a faith in Christ and then welfare Smalcius In your next I pray manifest your judgement herein Or of whom learned you this opinion that they who have only the sun moon and starres Impossibile est pervenire ad sidem pervenire ad aeternam vitam nisi audieris evargelium idque adminisâ—ratum per hominem nam de praedicatione Evangelij Paulus hic lâ—quitur quam dominus per Apostolos suos ado inistravit Bucer in Rom. 10. Act. Synod Artic. 2. Col. Hag. art 2. Ad Arg. 5. pag. 179. Sion Col. visiâ— p. 17. Ans c. to preach the Gespel unto them have sufficient means of beleeving Certainly Mr Bucer never was your Master who on Rom. 10. saith It 's impossible to attain to saith to aeternall life unlesse thou hearest the Gospel and that admiâ—istred by man for Paul here speaks of the preaching of the Gospel which God administred by his Apostles But whose scholler are you now Friend you are to blame to put me out of my old way for I would fain have found a schoolmaster among the Arminians for you but the truth is you have now outgon your Masters They indeed say that God calls all with a common calling by which men may be made fit to hear the Gospel in which salvation is offered c. but they never dream'd of a Gospel by Sun Moon and Starres nay when pressed at the conference at Hague to shew the universality of the preaching of the Gospel though they have many shifts and cavils yet this of your Preachers never came into their minde Let all my sayings be drawn together and the rigidest extraction made there will be found the same spirit of errour if yet it were errour in Mr John Ball Intituled A Treatise of the Covenant of Grace pag. 44. of 〈◊〉 â—â—â—course I cannot wonder that you who would fain father your errours upon Scripture are in this kinde industrious also to abuse holy and learned Mr Ball lay not your egges of errour in Mr Balls nest thinking that by the warmth of his reputation to have them hatched The words of Mr Ball are these No man is hindered from beleeving through the difficulty or unreasonablenes of the command or through his own simple infirmity as being willing to beleeve but not able which inability deserves pity but he doth not beleeve because he will not What is here that gives you the least countenance in your errours Mr Ball saith and that truly that unwillingnesse to beleeve hinders a man from beleeving but he doth not say that any man of himself can be willing for pag. 226. having asserted that man is unable to beleeve and in the same page that it is of grace to be inabled to beleeve he presently adds that mands not further from beleeving then desire to beleeve Mr B. grants that it's mans fault that he dissents from grace calling him but where saith he it is in mans power to consent to grace calling him and if he will not say so he cannot be of your faith who maintain that man hath ability to beleeve and may so improve his naturall abilities that conversion alwaies will follow and if man had not power to beleeve God were unjust to command it Mr Ball blames mans unwillingnesse to beleeve and you like an acute logician thence conclude mans sufficiency 'T were easie to shew as great a dissonancy between you and Mr Ball in this point as there is an harmony between you and the Remonstrants Take it in these four or five passages 1. You say Div. Auth. p. 168. That if man should be deprived of all ability to beleeve and yet God should be still moving and perswading men to beleeve this would be harder then injustice it self As for a King to cause a mans leggs to be cut off and yet command him to run a race And you say that mans inability to do any thing that God commands is a very fair and reasonable excuse for not doing it Div. Auth. p. 201. But Mr Ball saith pag. 245 246. of the Cou. of Gr. That an impossible thing to us may be and is the object of Gods command and of his desire Nay in the same place the Lord commands and desires the conversion of many obstinate impenitent persons who have the means of grace whom for their present contempt he doth blinde and harden If impossible be not the object of Gods will in this fence viz. impossible in respect of maâ— he that by custome in evil hath contracted an habit that he cannot but sin should not offend and he that is carried with the most violence of minde to evil should be least evil pag. 247. he saith that God may justly withhold the graces of his spirit from those that are invited in the Ministery and pag. 248. The Lord doth earnestly again and again call upon impenitent and obstinate sinners to repent and beleeve when as yet in his just judgement he hardens their hearts that they cannot repent And whereas you call mans inability a fair excuse for not
power to render the motions of grace in effectuall to it self all the requifite motions of grace being afforded If you grant that grace is certain infallible and determinative in its operation upon the will I desire lastly to know whether you mean that this invincibility and infallibility of the working of grace be only to be lookt upon as such respectu eventus in regard of what doth fall out and de facto doth come to passe or whether the certain determination of the will by grace proceedeth from the powerfull nature of that grace of God which as Austin saith no hard heart is able to refuse untill I clearly understand your minde in these particulars the pretending of the adjutory of grace in the generall renders you but suspected in the thoughts of the most and truly satisfactory to none The residue of the soil in your Pamphlet is so light and sandy for the subiect as for the manner of handling any subject it is such all over that now my pen will plough apace I first meet with a long winded sentence consisting of above ten lines which is a complication of falsities reproaches and non-sence If I can discern any thing through a fog of words Sion Col. visited p. 25 Answ it hath something like these particulars It is the calamity of these times to iudge truth and errour commensurable with the votes of the Ministers The calamity of the times is in that we do not judge truth and errour commensurable with the vote of the Scripture Such sectaries as your self have thrown away that measure that so you might trade in your ware-house with the greater advantage and instead thereof you make use of a false measure your own imagination My soul pitties your cheated chapmen But how is it you will not have truth and errour commensurable with the vote of the Ministers If M. Goodwins vote be not the standing measure of truth and errour for his followers what is I am sure according to his principles the written word cannot be it Sion Col. visited p. ult for that is not the word of God Name a third measure Sir but if it should happen to be an Enthusiasme I shall expect but a faint prosecution of your ingagement against quaerisme as you call it or seeking which you say you are now opposing in your publike Ministery And I beleeve that you are doing so as truly as you are opposing Antiscripturisme and Manicheisme the former whereof you patronize and the latter you understand not as I have proved They have engrossed the honour and reputation of being Orthodox unto themselves Sion Col. visited p. 25. Ans You grieve that others should be reputed Orthodox alone without you but why do you not grieve that others should be Orthodox alone with you Reality is better then Reputation and 't is better to be then to be accounted Orthodox And as for honour that will flie from you as long as you flie from honesty Intreat God to give you the heart of an Orthodox Minister and you will soon have the honour of such an one otherwise know that your present dishonour is nothing to your future shame either to posterity or eternity Think upon it in time 't is friendly advice They the Ministers Sion Col. visited p. â—5 still square their votes concerning truth ' and errour by the traditions of the Elders he meaneth the Fathers If you be not for traditions Ans you are for nothing since you have thrown off the written word For ought I know tradition is the best flower in your garden but charge not the Ministers with being for any traditions but written and for these I confesse they are so zealous that for your opposing them they have deservedly placed you in the forlorn of the erroneous And scoff not too much at the Elders I knew the time even when you were writing the preceeding page that you would fain have been beholding to them And could you then have perswaded those Elders to have blest you with but one tradition you would not now have blasted the tradition of the Elders But now you are like a beggar who when he cannot prevail for an alms goeth away railing But I marvell how the younger I mean Bucer and Ball escape your reviling They were as far from pitying you and as forward in chastising you as the Elders I shall add Some of Pelagius's friends may haply take it ill at your hands that when you were shooting reproaches among the Elders you did not desire your Patron Pelagius to stand aside Sir to be short with you the Ministers sometimes use but never depend upon the traditions of the Elders One of the best traditions that ever I learned from any of the Elders was from Tertullian and 't is this Custome without truth is but the antiquity of errour Your next passage breaths a malice ranklie savouring of atheisme Your book goeth out like a snuff and now fumeth with nothing but reproaches against the government of Christ Prophanation of Scripture and elevation of your self The Ministers of the Province of London Sion Col. visited p. 25. cannot but be full of this information that there was more of the truth and power of Religion in England under the Praelaticall government then in all the reformed Churches besides The best successe unto which they can with any colour of truth entitle this government is but the successe of gardiners sheers which prosper only by the snipping off and keeping under those thriving branches which else would out-grow their fellows You say that travellers have fild the Ministers of London Ans with information but there 's one that I fear hath fild you with this among a great deal of other false information I fear 't is he that is the greatest traveller and the greatest liar in the world The Lord rebuke thee Satan For your telling us that the praelaticall government was more blest with the power of religion then any reformed Church Quiâ—â—â—â— in cathedrâ â—â—gebit ingebeâ—nâ— I know not why you mention it unlesse it be to make Satan sport as if you were his jester Or to give aquavitae to Antichrist in his fainting fits Was the power of religion more under praelaticall govornment then in any reformed Churches Here 's a good commendation in the mean time for Independent Churches for praelaticall government had more religion you say then ALL the Reformed Churches And if so I say then Independent Churches too unlesse you will evade my argument by saying that Independent Churches were not then formed or if they were formed were not reformed so well as the praelaticall but so as you may scratch Presbytery you care not though you wound your self 2. Why tell you not the reader that the power of religion decayed in the daies of no government as well as it thrived in the daâ—es of praelaticall government you were afraid the Reader would have drawn this conclusion thence It s better with Religion