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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A28893	An answer to Doctor Good (so called) his Dialogue against those call'd Quakers wherein he hath forged the Quaker and confuted himself, which dialogue of Tho. Good's is in his book intituled Firmianus and Dubitantius, or certain dialogues concerning atheism, infidelity, popery, and other heresies and schisms, which trouble the peace of the Church &c. / by Edward Bourn.	Bourne, Edward, d. 1708.	1675 (1675)	Wing B3845; ESTC R27869	17,048	26

justified by Faith in Christ Jesus which the Work of Faith which works by Love is not denyed by the Apostle nor us if thou denyest that thy Faith is dead Further thou say'st that we say That a State of Perfection and Freedom from Sin is attainable in this Life Answ Do we err in holding that a State of Perfection and Freedom from Sin is attainable in this Life Did not God say to Abraham I am Almighty God walk before me and be thou perfect Gen. 17. 1. And did not Christ say in his Sermon in the Mount Be you therefore Perfect as your Father which is in Heaven is perfect And art thou of that Faith and Belief that God and Christ doth command us to do that which we cannot by his Help and Assistance do 'T is true we cannot keep the Commands of Christ of our selves but by his Assistance we are able to do the same else why did the Apostle say I can do all Things through Christ that strengthneth me And did not the Saints know a Freedom from Sin in this Life Friend I tell thee if thou say'st a Freedom from Sin is not attainable in this Life thou must deny the Scriptures of Truth and give the Apostle the Lye for doth not the Apostle say to the Romans But now being made free from Sin and become Servants to God ye have your Fruit unto Holiness and the End Everlasting Life Rom. 6. 22. And doth not the Apostle say concerning himself For the Law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the Law of Sin and Death Therefore stop thy Mouth for Shame from speaking of those Things which thou ought'st not and thy Pen from so writing concerning us certainly God will judge thee for thy Lyes and Slanders against us Thou say'st That our Positions are contrary to the sacred Scriptures but by this thy Evil Work it appeareth that thou art contrary to the Scriptures and not we who hast manifested thy Ignorance of what the Scriptures say and hast appeared contrary to what thy self hast learned in thy young Dayes and since for ought that I know to the contrary hast caused others to learn viz. That when thou camest to Age thou wouldst according to what was promised and vowed in thy stead by thy God-fathers and God-mothers in thy Baptism so called forsake the Devil and all his Works And if thou hast not learned thus not caused any thus to learn I am sure that I and many more were caused thus to learn in our youthful Dayes I believe however thou ownest thy self a Member of that Church that teacheth thus to say though not to do and so thou may'st be a Sayer of the Word but not a Doer of it but now thou art neither Sayer nor Doer and so in that Estate can'st not be justified of God for as thou hast doubtless read in the Scriptures It is not the Sayers of the Word that are justified but the Doers of it Now he that forsakes the Devil and all his Works he must cease from all Sin and abstain from every Appearance of Evil for all Sin is of the Devil Again we say say'st thou That there is a Light in every Man sufficient to guide him to Salvation Answ Is it an Errorth us to hold seeing John saith speaking of Christ That is the true Light which lighteth every Man that cometh into the World And hath not God given his Son Christ Jesus for a Light to the Gentiles that he might be his Salvation unto the Ends of the Earth And doth not the Apostle say For God who commanded the Light to shine out of Darkness hath shined in our Hearts to give the Light of the Knowledge of the Glory of God in the Face of Jesus Christ and see John 14. 26. 16. 7 8 9 10 11 12 13. Consider of these Scriptures and then tell us whether it be any Error to hold that there is a Light in every Man sufficient to guide him unto Salvation or to hold the contrary and so whether it is not thou that errst from Scripture and the true and right Way of the Lord and not we Again say'st thou We hold that the Scripture is not the Word of God or a standing Rule of Faith and Manners Answ We own the Scriptures to be what they speak of themselves according to Luke's Preface where he writes of the Gospel c. But the Word is God if John wrote the Truth which we believe he did as thou may'st see John 1. 1. And I hope thou wilt not presume to say to the contrary but we own the Scriptures that which Holy Men spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost to be the Words of God and that which was the Saints Rule we own to be our Rule as the Scriptures testifie thereof see John 16. 13. c. and Tit. 2. 11 12. But thou manifests thy self to be contrary to the Rule both of Scripture and Spirit that does by thy Neighbours and Country-men as thou would'st not be done by Again thou say'st That we hold that there is no Resurrection of the Dead Answ We do own the Resurrection of the Dead according to the Scriptures as thou may'st see 1 Cor. 15. 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 c. And further see Ver. 29. 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38. c. So I say we own the Resurrection of the Dead according to the Scriptures and if thou hold'st it otherwise it is thou that errest therein and not we Again thou say'st We hold there is no need of Ordinances as Baptism and the Lord's Supper Answ We own that Baptism that 's according to the Scriptures but not that which is contrary to them which is according to the Traditions and Inventions of Men and the Supper of the Lord we own according to the Scriptures though not such a Supper which some take before Dinner and call it the Lord's Supper So be humbled before the Lord and repent of the Wrong thou hast done us herein Again we hold say'st thou That 't is Vnlawful to take an Oath before a Magistrate upon any Account whatsoever Answ Is it an Error in us to keep the Commandment of Christ herein who saith Swear not at all and the Commandment of the Apostle who saith But above all Things my Brethren swear not see Mat. 5. 33 34 35 36 37. Jam. 5. 12. Friend was it not commanded by Christ and his Apostle that we should not swear at all no not by any Oath And what must we err for doing according to Christ's Commands herein Oh sad that one who taketh upon him to be a Minister of Christ should hold to the contrary and teach others so Friend repent of those Things and do so no more that these Words of Christ may not come to pass concerning thee viz. Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least Commandments and shall teach Men so to do he shall

be called the least in the Kingdom of Heaven And whereas thou say'st in thy Dubitantius I know these and many more to be the Positions of the Quakers and that they are directly contrary to the sacred Scriptures Answ Whereas thou say'st Thou knowest these P●sitions and many more of ours are directly contrary to the sacred Scriptures I say thou hast belyed us herein for the Scriptures make for us in these Positions which we own to be ours as I have shewed thee before and wherein thou hast said we hold that we do not hold thy Lyes are thrown back upon thy self and I doubt not but God will rebuke thy lying Tongue for thy slandering of us and turn the Mischief thou would'st bring upon us thereby upon thy own Pate And whereas thou say'st in thy Firmianus These Things are so clearly confuted by the Word of God by which I suppose thou meanest the Scriptures and Tradition of the Catholick Church c. Answ Thou hast said so but thou hast not brought one Scripture to confute us in those Positions we own to be ours and so hast accused us without a Proof which will not serve thy Turn for the carrying on of thy envious Work against us with People of Understanding but the rather thy Folly and Ignorance and Madness is the more made manifest to such as are honestly minded and are willing to try and to prove all Things and to hold fast that which is good And therefore cease from thy Work in this and in Things of this Nature for by thy Strength thou must not nor shalt not be able to prevail against us because the Truth is for us which is stronger and of more Might then any Thing beside it and takes our Parts against thee herein And whereas thou say'st Our Practices are extreamly opposite to all good Manners and the Civilities of all Nations which are not grosly barbarous as well as the Holy Scriptures and whereas you have observed their Carriages to be very demure austere and that they are of a sad Countenance 't is no more then our Blessed Saviour reproved in the Scribes and Pharisees long since c. Answ Wherein are our Practices so extreamly opposite to all good Manners and the Civilities of all Nations that are not grosly barbarous as well as the Holy Scriptures Friend let us know if thou art able to do it wherein our Practices are contrary to the blessed Truth and if our Practices are not contrary to the Truth but agreeable therewith as surely I may safely say they are then wherein can they be said to be opposite to all good Manners and the Civilities of all Nations Friend I can say and the Witness of God in my Conscience justifies me herein thou art one of those that calls Good Evil and Evil Good and so art not led by that good Spirit that the Holy Apostle and Servant of Christ was led by who said As Obedient Children not fashioning your selves according to the former Lusts in your Ignorance 1 Pet. 1. 14. So thou who ar● ignorant of the Light of Christ and of the right Way of the Lord may'st call that good Manners and Civility which is according to the Fashions ●f this World which pass away but that which the good Spirit of God doth lead into is contrary to that which thou may'st account good Manners and Civility But thou and such as thee art are nearer in Nature to the grosly barbarous then we are as this thy Work manifesteth for I am of the Mind thou art not of so meek a Spirit as to bear with any Man or Woman that cannot put off their Hats and bow to thee for Conscience sake though what they do herein doth accord and agree with the Scriptures and so we are not contrary to the Scriptures but according to them for Mordecai who was a good Man could not bow to Haman as thou may'st see Ester 3. 1 2. For which Cause Haman was full of Wrath as see Ester 3. 3 5. So thou who art angry with any that cannot for Conscience sake put off their Hats and bow to thee I speak not of such as thus do in Contempt to any Man's Person but for Conscience-sake towards God art like Haman herein and not like Mordecai whom God was with c. Further say'st thou of us That we are very demure austere and of a sad Countenance whereas a sad sour Face a hanging down Look too much resemble Cain's Mark and is a very probable Sign of a disquieted discontented guilty troubled if not a malitious Mind Answ Thou judgest of us according to thy own Thoughts But Friend tho● should'st not judge of us according to the outward Appearance in thy prejudiced Mind but judge Righteously of us and if thou wouldst so judge then thou must judge nothing before the Time 'T is probable that thou may'st judge us to be of a malitious Mind because we cannot appear as one with People in their Folly in being jolly and merry with them out of the Fear of the Lord which is because we know such Things are contrary to Godliness and that whereby his good Spirit is grieved and by which he is provoaked to Anger daily the Consideration of those Things makes us sad many Times and we cannot avoid it well many Times but must by our Words and Carriages shew our Disl●ke thereof because we well know that People by such Things do provoak the Holy God against their own Souls who hath long born with their Evil Manners herein and striven with them by his good Spirit to reclaim them therefrom but his long Suffering will soon come to an End with such and his good Spirit will cease to strive with them therefore let such repent and amend their VVaves and their Doings before it be too late but thou shewest thy self to be one with them which thought it strange of the Saints formerly because they could not run with them into the same Excess of Riot which they run into as see 1 Pet. 4. 3 4. And though thou say'st of us that in this or in such Things before-mentioned of us it too much resembles Cain's Mark I say Cain's Mark may easier be seen in thee who hast wrote so malitiously against us as thou hast let the VVitness of God in thy Conscience testifie whether thou hast not wrote thus against us out of Malice and whether thou hast not done it out of the Enmity in thee unto that which is good Again sayes Firmianus This Practice of theirs is against the very Light of Nature as well as plain Scripture a meer levelling Device of their Seducers the Popish Priests and Jesuits to make a Confusion amongst us to destroy all Government to take away all Honour and Respect which is due to our Superiours for what Honour or Reverence has that Man in his Heart towards them who will express none in his Words or Gestures according to the ●●udable Custom of the Country where he dwells Answ