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A03418 A letter to Mr. T.H. late minister: now fugitiue: from Sir Edvvard Hoby Knight. In answere of his first Motiue Hoby, Edward, Sir, 1560-1617. 1609 (1609) STC 13541; ESTC S104131 47,450 130

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were confirmed by the first foure generall Councels or any of them then it will appeare by their Canons But m Jnsta no one Canon can be thence produced Ergo not all confirmed And so cōsequently a mere Satanicall figment Thus doth your n Page 39. Dagon fal downe before the Arke Had it not been for your grand Patriarchs S. Homer S. Plato and S. Virgil you would neuer haue knowne how to haue set your compasse for the discouerie of this new found world And yet if a man should aske the best nauigator of you all in what degree how many leagues Purgatorie is from the Jnfernall Cape I thinke he would be put to his trumpes Only Beda his ghost commeth somewhat neere the marke in his Carde which placeth Purgatorie vnder the earth in the suburbs of Hell by which whosoeuer is led may happily make but a sorrie voiage Neither see I any reason why you should not as well beleeue Alcuinus who peremtorilie maintaineth that it is situate in the o Somnium Scipioner aire But if one bee sent vnto you from the p As true as S. Bernards miracle pag. 71. dead wherein you are more happy then Diues his brethren I cannot much blame you if you heare him Well Quod vbique est nullibi est it is in so many places that indeed it is in no place But it proceedeth from a iust iudgement of God that such q Gen. 11.9 Babylonians should haue their language diuided the world is now growne wearie of such Alcumists who haue exhausted our treasures with long expectation of this Philosophers stone which yet could neuer be found The next point wherein I am to insist is that it disgraceth the mercie of God euacuateth the crosse of Christ and consequentlie peruerteth our faith The truth whereof is so euidently apparant that I shall not make any long demonstration S. Augustine giueth vs an infallible rule how to order our opinions in this case r Cont. Crescon lib. 20. ca. 31. Secundùm libros certos prophetarum Apostolorum de caeteris libris vel fidelium vel infidelium liberè iudicemus wee may freelie iudge of all other writings and consequently of al traditions according to their agreements or disagreements with the certaine Propheticall and Apostolicall writ So that if I can now prooue that Purgatorie in the forenamed respects is repugnant to the written word I shall also with one the same labor proue it no Apostolicall tradition vpon which you wholly ſ Page 11. relie There is no one point which the Scripture more vrgeth then that the Lord will haue no partner to rob him of his glorie a Apoc. 4.11 5.12 Tibi honor gloria say the elders This glorie as it did shine in the creation of man so is the lustre thereof as bright in his redemption As we lay no claime to haue been any helper in the creation so can wee not part stakes in our redemption b 1. Iohn 1.7 The blood of Christ purgeth vs from all sinnes if sinnes be purged then the punishment is remitted the cause being taken away the effect ceaseth if from all sinnes then as well mortall as veniall as you terme them Neither doth the Lord say He that is so manie yeeres in Purgatorie but c Rom. 10.9 he that beleeueth shall bee saued My argument thē standeth thus The soules in Purgatorie are either punished for those sinnes which Christs blood hath wholly purged or for those which he hath not whollie purged if for those which Christ hath wholly purged then must there needs be iniustice in God to imprison them whose debts are fully discharged if for sinnes that hee hath not wholly purged then it followeth either that he is not d Iohn 1.29 the lamb of God that taketh away the sinnes of the world leauing some part behind or that the workes of God nay his mercy e Psal 144.9 which passeth al his works is imperfect or that mans satisfaction must goe hand in hand with Christs merit by making that good which wanteth in his passion with which surmise the Lord will not suffer his glorie to be ecclipsed And surelie if Apelles leaue his picture vnperfect it is in vaine for any other of his craft to take it in hand Neither can I vnderstand why the blood of Christ apprehended by faith in this life should be of lesse force then when it is applied by Baals priest when we are dead to free vs from that doome Your owne writers are not ashamed to say that a f Reuelat. Brigittae lib. 4. cap. 13. Bishop of Rome his prayers did deliuer Traian a Heathen Emperour from hell who had been dead many hundred of yeares before and yet you thinke much nay you say that we insist in the steps of the g Pag. 53. Nouatians Nestorians and the like when we professe that the h Col. 2.14 handwriting which was against vs being fastened to the crosse of Christ and the bond being cancelled we are no longer liable to the penaltie thereof albeit the Scripture saith that i Heb. 9.26 he appeared once to put away sin how by meriting that the penall satisfaction of Purgatorie might make vs cleane No such matter but by the sacrifice of himselfe And againe k Heb. 1.3 Christ hath purged our sinnes not by vs as making vs our owne Sauiors but by himselfe Frustra fit per plura quod fieri potest per pauciora If the Leprosie of l 4. King 5.12 Naaman be clensed by the water of Iordan what standeth hee in need of Abanah or Pharphar Christ was offered for the sinnes of many and yet as if he had but taken a longer day of paiment the vnbloodie sacrifice must be dailie renewed as if the sheading of his pretious blood vpon the crosse were lesse effectuall then your breaden idoll in a shauelings hand whom blind superstition holdeth to be able to rid them from that dolefull place wherein notwithstanding that one m Heb. 7.27 oblation of himselfe once offered they are for further purgation to bee enthralled If the Lord hath assigned them that place how can your Romish indulgences set them at libertie where is your commission if you will loose thē at all it must be while they are on the earth it is appointed to all men n Heb. 9.27 That they must die and after death commeth iudgement o Eccles 9.5 Mortui nihil nouerunt amplius nec habent vltra mercedem The dead know nothing at all As the p Jbid. cap. 11.3 Tree falleth so must it lie q Cyprian de mortal Qualem te inuenit Deus cùm de hoc mundo euocat talem te iudicat As God findeth thee at thy death so will he iudge thee If the Lord haue assigned no such place to them as is plaine by the premisses then are you cruell comforters who for your owne gaine do terrifie the departing soule of him
haue bin glad to compound I confesse freely he gathereth the same note out of these words of your ground Esse in altero seculo n Hoc est contra Origenem qui dicit omnes veniam consequuturos post vniuersale iudicium trāsactis multis seculis Hug. Cardin. in Mat. fol. 42. b. remissionem c. And that this might bee thought a veniall encrochment vpon the text hee goeth further breaking downe all the Lords fences that the Diuels and damned spirits might enter common in this after-pardon entituling them to that Remission which shall be granted in the world to come Heere is good stuffe Qui semel verecundiae fines transierit eum gnauiter esse impudentem oportet Ouer shooes ouer bootes If the Christian world should giue you Origens inch a whole ell of absurdities would not serue your turne We should euerie day haue Postes out of Purgatorie and such store of Graue-miracles that it would make a o Yea Bellarmines deuout mare Lib. 3. Eucha cap. 8. horse to breake his halter to see them Far more Analogicall is Saint Chrysostoms exposition Jt shall not be forgiuen in this world nor in the world to come that is saith he p In Matth. 12. Non effugient poenam They shall bee surely punished in this world and in the world to come And this standeth with verie good q Non remittetur hîc vel alibi sed hîc alibi punietur Theoph. in Matth. reason as himselfe proueth by this induction Some sinners are punished only in this life as that incestuous r 1. Cor. 5.5 Corinthian that his spirit might be saued in the day of our Lord Jesus some only in the life to come as the rich ſ Luk. 16.19 Glutton who while hee was aliue had the world at will and some were sinners in graine as I may tearme them are both tortured in this life and tormented in the life to come as the Sodomites who had heere ignem t Gen. 19.24 sulfureum and haue there ignem infernalem So that when our Sauiour heere denouncing against these Capitall malefactors telleth them that their sinnes shall neither be forgiuen in this world nor in the world to come it is as much as if he should say they shall both smart for it in this world and rue it in the world to come Whereof not to speake of Judas patronised by u De Justif. lib. 3. cap. 14. Bellarmine we haue a liuely though fearefull president in the miserable end of that cursed Apostata x Vicisti Galilae Julianus I would now gladlie see what fault you can find with this holsome exposition it tendeth to godlines in setting out the horror of that fearefull sinne which our Sauiour heere laboureth to beate downe in the blasphemous Pharasaicall Scribes and the truth thereof is euident by the former instance wheras your illatiue setteth open a wide gap to carnall libertie our y Maxima peccandi illecebra impunitatis spes nature being so prone to defer the time of our conuersion vpon the least hope of future remedy Neither is it backed by any expresse testimonie of holy writ nor any exemplary proofe besides your Hobgoblins Rawheads Bloodie-bones and Night-ghosts which the world hath now for many yeares since forgotten to beleeue You will be tride by the Fathers you say A good motion My reason teacheth me to reuerence them my religion forbiddeth me to adore them my leasure will not serue to search or cite them all Can you except against Athanasius Let him be the Vmpire he hath written a whole Tract of this subiect which will put all out of doubt If you can find one line in him for this your exposition My eye shall enter an action against my vnderstanding Nay I will yet go further there is not one of the ancient Fathers z Vbi benè nemo melius vbi malè nemo peius Origen excepted vnto Augustines time who euer made any such glosse As for Hilarie Jerom Chrysostome Theophylact and my arbitrator Athanasius they will not I am sure lend you one such syllable to saue your life No maruell then if by the validitie of this text you were so powerfully led to the a Pag. 11. approbation of this doctrine These you will say are but my words and therefore for your better information peruse them By this you may see if the muffler of Superstition hath not cleane hoodwinked your eyes the weaknes of your first ground Well when you haue spent all your forces in the maintenance of this fort it will proue but 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 strife about words which the b 1. Tim. 6.4 Apostle appropriateth to such as account gaine I will not say Purgatorie to bee godlinesse No doubt your talent and time might much more profitablie be spent 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in doctrine according to godlines §. 3. THat you may perceiue how willing I am to satisfie you to the full I will doe my best endeuour to remoue that scruple which the authoritie of that great Father and worthie Diuine S. Augustine seemeth to haue first fastned in your wauering thoughts wherein I shal finde the lesse difficultie for as much as your selfe confesse of all those of his ranke that a Pag. 6. Though they were men of admirable valew yet they were not exempt from the errors of infirmitie b Spero te minimè moriturum Episcopum Epiph. Chrysostomo Spero te in patriam minimè rediturum Chrysost Epiphanio Socrat. lib. 6. cap. 13. attending vpon the condition of mankinde and That they may erre c Pag. 4. Secundùm Analogiam loci Which were I captious might bring this with the rest of your testimonies being meere expositions vpon your former ground into some doubt For when hee said d Pag. 4. The prayer of the Church is heard for some men deceased out of the world lest hee might be vrged with a Proba he giueth this reason For it could not be said truly of some men that their sinnes should not be forgiuen in this world nor in the world to come vnlesse there should be some men who though they are not pardoned in this world yet they should bee pardoned in the world to come What is this with those other of Gregory Jsidore Beda and Bernard by you cited but expositions vpon the same place wherein you confesse they may erre And indeede I wonder you will bee so friendly as to grant that they may misse the cushion in the Analogie of the place Little do you think what may be thence inferred I would faine know what is the ground of faith Is it not the word This word hath diuers parcels now if they mistake in the Analogie of one place as you grant why not then as well in another and so you couertly contradict your self by implying They may erre Secundùm Analogiam Fidei in the Analogie of faith Thus haue you made those blessed Fathers much
Cemeteries 21 Holy water 22 oyle 23 salt 24 spittle 25 Couents 26 Processions 27 Pilgrimages 28 Reliques 29 Stewish Pardons 30 Jndulgences and such rifraffe iugling trash and Babies sports haue not onlie mutuall reference but fundamental dependance vpon this Which being thus shaken will I hope no longer o Si caecus caecum ducat ambo in foueam Luk. 6.39 support and patronage the rest But why should I hope to satisfie you in this as if I could vrge that which hath not been long since propounded to this purpose What is it that can gaine assent in those who are wilfully peruerse To giue you one instance for all how often hath it been demonstratiuely proued that setting some friuolous Ceremonies aside our Countrie of Britanie was no whit beholding to proud and insolent p Beda Ec. hist. lib. 2. ca. 2. Augustine your great Gregories delegat for any matter of faith q Anno 580. Polyd. praefat ad Ton stal praefixa Gildae Aug. came in Anno 597. Gildas his testimonie hath been vrged who liued before Augustines comming that the Britons receiued the Christian faith frō the beginning r An 58. n 51. Baronius hath told you that S. Peter was here ſ De curand Graec. affect l. 9. Theodoret that S. Paul t L. 2. c. 40. Nicephorus that Simon Zelotes and some u Baron an 39. n. 5. that Joseph de Arimathea did plant the faith amongst vs. Manie forceable inducements haue been produced that euen in the Primitiue Church Christianitie harbored in this Isle These instances and many more haue been againe and againe renewed without any verified contradiction and yet as if it had been a matter which you neuer heard of afore you would as in all your other points make vs in this follow you vp and downe wearying the world with a circular discusse bobbing your credulous Ladies with these Syrenicall insinuations As long as you are thus partially minded arguments will bee no inducements the world will bee sooner ended then this matter decided your Romish practise being nothing else but to guild old weather-beaten obiections with new glistering words Let vs bring neuer so manie writs of errour you will still reduce your selfe to your old plaint From a new Conuert I expected new proofes §. 6. THat you may know from what affection these my former lines haue issued I haue reserued yet one corner of my letter for a more friendlie conference whereby you shall perceiue that as you are Romish I haue bent those forces that were next at hand to supplant your error as you are my Countriman in whom I resolue there is some hope my best meanes shall not bee wanting for your behoofe Let me then say to M. Theophilus Hyggons as he that sat in the midst of the seauen goldē Candlesticks said vnto the Angell of Ephesus a Apoc. 2.5 Remember from whence thou art fallen and repent and doe the first workes The countrie wherein you were borne is not vnnaturallie to be despised the friends by whom you were bred are not vnkindlie to bee contemned neither is the faith whereinto you were baptised if you rightlie iudge so inconsideratelie to be forsaken b Psal 44.14 The Kings daughter is all glorious within howsoeuer the Babylonian harlot may bee more gaudie without Why should you thinke our written word of lesse value then your headge-creeping traditions why should Christs merits be lessened by your owne satisfactions why should the debt be again exacted which Christs blood hath once for al fully paid Had we 1 an idolatrous heathenish or superstitious religion were we 2 worshippers of images 3 impugners of holie marriage 4 rebelliouslie affected to the higher powers 5 concealers of the word imprisoning it in an vnknowne tongue 6 maintainers of stewes 7 did wee keepe backe the cup from the Laitie which the Lord hath allotted them 8 did wee hearten men in their sinnes by granting future indulgences or 9 by putting them in hope to haue that done for them by others after they are dead which they haue not done for themselues whilest they were aliue if wee sought to seduce poore soules by lying 10 Legends and deceiueble 11 wonders then might you mistrust that we belong to the kingdome of Antichrist and so leaue vs hauing an c Apoc. 18.4 Exite vnder the Lords seale But if wee preach Christ Jesus and him crucified if our faith be wholly directed to his merits our hope to his mercies our charity to his deputies the Saints vpon earth if we maintaine that word and retaine onlie those Sacraments which Christs holie institution hath warranted then Quis vos fascinauit O ye bransicke and foolish fugitiues who hath bewitched you that you should not obey the truth Are you so foolish that after you haue begun in the spirit you will now end in the flesh What hath withdrawne you is it our noueltie that disliketh you Can you desire any greater Antiquitie then a iust conformitie of all our Principles with the first originall Would you haue any better president then the paterne of Christ his Apostles and the Primitiue Church What if our sunne were for a while eclipsed by the interposition of Antichristian policie was it therefore no sunne What if the good seede were ouertopped with tares that it could hardlie be discerned as in the daies of Elias and our Sauiour Christ the greater number discountenācing the better part yet can you not hence inferre that there was no corne It is a meere sophisticall Paralogisme to argue à non videri ad non esse as thus Eucleo hath no gold because no man doth see his gold Man oft taketh his marke amisse it is God that knoweth who are his He that hath the fan in his hand hath now in the fulnesse of time purged his floore blowne away the chaffe of idolatrous superstition and laid the wholesome graine of his truth on heapes in the garner of his Church But such hath been his prouidence in all times that no age hath been destitute of some faithfull witnesse of this faith which we now professe as doth appeare by those manie answers of our learned Protestants to your false and friuolous calumniations I cal them false as being contradicted euen by the testimonie of the Ecclesiasticall historians I terme them also friuolous for what consequence is it their names are not registred therefore there were none vntill Luthers time thus affected Surely most absurd as if their being did depend vpon other mens writing d Multi Papae inuenti sunt apostatae Nico Lyra in 16. cap. Mat. Had not Syluester been a Necromanticke Honorius an hereticall Monothelite and Marcellinus an open Idolater albeit they had scaped the records and been let slip without the brand of any mans pen had they not been thus detected to posteritie would you therefore say they were not all infected with these or those crimes That which is written may according to the credit of the author