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ID Title Author Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication) STC Words Pages
A05212 A disputation of the Church wherein the old religion is maintained. V.M.C.F.E. Lechmere, Edmund, d. 1640?; F. E., fl. 1629. 1629 (1629) STC 15348; ESTC S100251 235,937 466

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to_o find_v our_o doctrine_n in_o the_o same_o or_o equivalent_a word_n and_o to_o put_v it_o here_o down_o this_o you_o must_v bear_v in_o mind_n likewise_o for_o the_o argument_n which_o in_o the_o three_o chapter_n i_o make_v out_o of_o the_o father_n it_o suffice_v there_o against_o you_o to_o cite_v our_o doctrine_n out_o of_o their_o mouth_n of_o their_o meaning_n the_o spirit_n must_v be_v judge_n and_o not_o the_o spirit_n in_o externe_n but_o the_o spirit_n in_o the_o church_n the_o second_o be_v that_o since_o to_o descend_v unto_o particular_n and_o to_o inquire_v each_o one_o opinion_n in_o matter_n of_o religion_n among_o protestant_n be_v endless_a and_o of_o infinite_a regard_n ch_z 3._o book_n
i_o have_v appoint_v watchman_n 62.6_o isay_n 62.6_o all_o the_o day_n and_o all_o the_o night_n forever_o they_o shall_v not_o hold_v their_o peace_n it_o be_v not_o say_v they_o shall_v not_o hold_v their_o peace_n if_o they_o do_v not_o sleep_v according_a to_o your_o drowsy_a gloss_n or_o if_o they_o will_v not_o speak_v the_o word_n of_o god_n but_o absolute_o it_o be_v say_v they_o shall_v not_o hold_v their_o peace_n and_o thus_o much_o of_o the_o first_o 16.17_o john_n 14._o v._o 16.17_o 32._o the_o second_o place_n do_v contain_v our_o saviour_n will_n as_o i_o say_v the_o word_n be_v these_o i_o will_v ask_v the_o father_n and_o he_o will_v give_v you_o another_o paraclete_n that_o he_o may_v abide_v with_o you_o for_o ever_o the_o spirit_n of_o truth_n who_o the_o world_n can_v receive_v because_o it_o see_v he_o not_o neither_o know_v he_o but_o you_o know_v he_o because_o he_o shall_v abide_v with_o you_o and_o shall_v be_v in_o you_o 26._o v._o 26._o the_o paraclete_n the_o holy_a ghost_n who_o the_o father_n will_v send_v in_o my_o name_n he_o shall_v teach_v you_o all_o thing_n and_o suggest_v unto_o you_o all_o thing_n whatsoever_o i_o shall_v say_v unto_o you_o 12.13_o ●6_n chap._n v._o 12.13_o yet_o many_o thing_n i_o have_v to_o say_v unto_o you_o but_o you_o can_v bear_v they_o now_o but_o when_o he_o the_o spirit_n of_o truth_n come_v he_o shall_v teach_v you_o all_o truth_n for_o he_o shall_v not_o speak_v of_o himself_o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d but_o what_o thing_n soever_o he_o shall_v hear_v he_o shall_v speak_v in_o these_o word_n observe_v with_o i_o seven_o thing_n the_o first_o be_v who_o send_v jesus_n christ_n the_o son_n of_o god_n secondlie_o who_o he_o send_v another_o comforter_n the_o holy_a ghost_n the_o spiritte_v of_o truth_n thirdlie_o to_o who_o he_o send_v this_o comforter_n and_o spirit_n to_o the_o church_n he_o be_v to_o leave_v behind_o he_o here_o one_o earth_n consist_v of_o apostle_n and_o pastor_n person_n visible_a by_o their_o function_n and_o office_n fourthlie_o how_o this_o spirit_n be_v to_o be_v with_o they_o to_o abide_v in_o this_o church_n and_o to_o remanie_fw-fr with_o it_o fiftlie_o to_o what_o end_n all_o this_o to_o teach_v they_o the_o truth_n sixth_o teach_v some_o pro_fw-la be_v so_o wise_a as_o to_o exclude_v teach_v and_o say_v the_o spirit_n be_v leave_v only_o to_o comfort_v not_o to_o teach_v what_o truth_n and_o how_o much_o whatsoever_o i_o shall_v say_v to_o you_o what_o thing_n soever_o he_o shall_v hear_v all_o truth_n seaventhlie_a for_o how_o long_o for_o ever_o all_o this_o be_v in_o the_o text_n and_o therefore_o our_o position_n be_v most_o true_a that_o the_o church_n have_v divine_a assistance_n in_o the_o proposition_n of_o the_o faith_n 33_o i_o must_v tell_v you_o moreover_o first_o that_o god_n with_o a_o few_o word_n can_v signify_v many_o thing_n his_o comprehension_n be_v infinite_a and_o he_o know_v all_o the_o signification_n and_o use_n of_o all_o word_n and_o next_o that_o i_o take_v these_o word_n of_o jesus_n christ_n in_o the_o whole_a fullnes_n of_o their_o sense_n and_o meaning_n though_o some_o interpreter_n have_v content_v themselves_o to_o put_v a_o part_n of_o it_o only_o down_o have_v not_o then_o occasion_n as_o we_o have_v now_o to_o search_v further_o in_o the_o church_n be_v people_n and_o pastor_n the_o spiritte_v assist_v all_o some_o to_o teach_v and_o to_o govern_v other_o to_o obey_v and_o to_o be_v direct_v some_o be_v predestinate_a and_o with_o these_o the_o spiritte_v continue_v to_o perseverance_n some_o be_v not_o but_o for_o a_o time_n believe_v and_o this_o by_o the_o assistance_n of_o the_o spiritte_v and_o some_o of_o they_o be_v teacher_n also_o and_o governor_n and_o in_o this_o kind_n do_v participate_v also_o the_o assistance_n of_o god_n spirit_n who_o dispose_v all_o as_o he_o please_v divide_v his_o gift_n and_o grace_n among_o man_n to_o his_o glory_n and_o the_o good_a of_o the_o predestinate_a in_o fine_a all_o those_o who_o name_n be_v write_v in_o the_o book_n of_o life_n persevere_v final_o so_o that_o the_o spirit_n lead_v they_o further_o to_o the_o state_n of_o glory_n and_o there_o show_v they_o all_o truth_n in_o itself_o abide_v so_o with_o they_o for_o all_o eternity_n 34._o but_o now_o let_v we_o hear_v what_o you_o say_v to_o this_o place_n first_o you_o say_v it_o be_v promise_v to_o the_o apostle_n in_o their_o own_o person_n only_o this_o be_v false_a first_o because_o it_o be_v promise_v to_o remain_v with_o they_o for_o ever_o whereas_o the_o apostle_n in_o their_o own_o person_n be_v not_o to_o live_v ever_o here_o and_o perpetual_a coexistence_n of_o two_o extreme_n include_v a_o perpetual_a existence_n of_o each_o of_o they_o as_o i_o note_v before_o upon_o the_o like_a occasion_n it_o be_v to_o they_o therefore_o and_o to_o their_o successor_n after_o they_o without_o end_v at_o any_o time_n and_o so_o forever_o secondlie_o by_o the_o end_n of_o the_o grant_v the_o same_o be_v evident_a for_o the_o church_n now_o a_o day_n stand_v in_o need_n of_o this_o assistance_n as_o well_o as_o it_o do_v then_o and_o in_o some_o respect_v more_o because_o it_o be_v great_a and_o the_o like_v it_o be_v of_o other_o age_n and_o will_v be_v still_o to_o the_o world_n end_n since_o therefore_o the_o providence_n of_o our_o saviour_n for_o the_o establishment_n of_o his_o church_n and_o salvation_n of_o his_o elect_a be_v perfect_a the_o grant_n hold_v according_a to_o the_o letter_n and_o be_v so_o to_o be_v understand_v as_o the_o word_n stand_v forever_o 35._o next_o you_o say_v the_o sense_n be_v the_o spiritte_v teach_v the_o church_n all_o the_o truth_n that_o be_v teach_v she_o if_o i_o shall_v tell_v you_o that_o my_o master_n in_o england_n do_v teach_v i_o all_o language_n and_o confess_v afterward_o they_o be_v but_o two_o that_o he_o teach_v i_o you_o will_v think_v sure_a that_o i_o do_v lie_v for_o two_o be_v not_o all_o yet_o will_v you_o have_v the_o scripture_n to_o speak_v in_o this_o manner_n but_o i_o answer_v that_o the_o word_n of_o scripture_n be_v plain_a he_o shall_v teach_v all_o whatsoever_o i_o shall_v say_v to_o you_o whatsoever_o he_o shall_v hear_v all_o truth_n 13_o ch_n 14._o v._n 26_o ch._n 16._o v._n 13_o and_o i_o think_v if_o i_o shall_v give_v you_o all_o my_o book_n you_o will_v not_o be_v content_v if_o my_o executor_n shall_v give_v you_o the_o ten_o part_n with_o this_o interpretation_n of_o the_o will_n i_o give_v you_o all_o that_o be_v all_o which_o be_v give_v you_o and_o then_o define_v what_o that_o be_v among_o themselves_o as_o you_o do_v in_o the_o matter_n of_o fundamental_a point_n but_o of_o this_o hereafter_o 36._o the_o three_o way_n of_o elude_v the_o place_n be_v to_o say_v that_o in_o heaven_n the_o spirit_n teach_v all_o truth_n but_o not_o here_o that_o in_o heaven_n he_o teach_v all_o i_o know_v well_o but_o you_o err_v against_o the_o scripture_n in_o deny_v that_o he_o teach_v all_o truth_n here_o read_v the_o text_n and_o you_o shall_v see_v that_o our_o saviour_n send_v the_o spirit_n unto_o the_o militant_a church_n from_o which_o he_o mean_v to_o withdraw_v his_o visible_a presence_n to_o the_o apostle_n leave_v in_o the_o world_n and_o to_o their_o successor_n to_o comfort_v they_o in_o his_o absence_n to_o reduce_v unto_o their_o mind_n what_o he_o have_v say_v and_o to_o assist_v and_o teach_v they_o all_o truth_n the_o spiritte_v of_o truth_n say_v excellentlie_o s._n cyrill_n will_v lead_v unto_o all_o truth_n 41._o cyrill_n alex_n li._n 10._o in_o joan._n cap._n 41._o for_o he_o know_v exact_o the_o truth_n who_o spirit_n he_o be_v and_o have_v reveal_v it_o unto_o we_o not_o in_o part_n only_o but_o entire_o for_o though_o in_o this_o life_n we_o know_v in_o part_n only_o as_o s._n paul_n say_v 13._o 1._o cor._n 13._o not_o a_o imperfect_a but_o the_o entire_a truth_n have_v shine_v unto_o we_o in_o this_o little_a knowledge_n believe_v knowledge_n the_o object_n of_o the_o church_n faith_n as_o the_o trinity_n the_o incarnation_n etc._n etc._n may_v be_v know_v either_o obscure_o by_o faith_n or_o clear_o by_o vision_n the_o former_a of_o these_o be_v a_o unperfect_a knowledge_n of_o they_o the_o latter_a be_v perfect_a as_o he_o that_o believe_v all_o the_o conclusion_n in_o euclid_n for_o the_o authority_n of_o scholar_n who_o general_o agree_v in_o they_o know_v they_o unperfect_o but_o he_o that_o can_v demonstrate_v they_o know_v they_o perfect_o to_o both_o the_o foresay_a knowledge_n the_o holy_a ghost_n do_v lead_v the_o church_n to_o the_o former_a here_o on_o earth_n to_o the_o late_a in_o heaven_n of_o the_o
do_v it_o be_v not_o common_a bread_n it_o be_v not_o bread_n it_o be_v not_o that_o which_o nature_n make_v father_n the_o father_n bread_n be_v make_v the_o body_n of_o christ_n that_o in_o the_o sacrament_n be_v flesh_n it_o be_v the_o flesh_n of_o christ_n make_v of_o bread_n the_o nature_n be_v change_v nature_n itself_o be_v change_v it_o be_v change_v by_o god_n omnipotency_n it_o be_v transelemented_a the_o sense_n may_v be_v deceive_v believe_v they_o not_o believe_v the_o word_n of_o christ_n it_o be_v not_o bread_n though_o the_o taste_n esteem_v it_o so_o it_o be_v change_v not_o in_o shape_n but_o in_o nature_n it_o be_v the_o flesh_n which_o suffer_v for_o we_o that_o which_o do_v hang_v upon_o the_o cross_n the_o price_n of_o our_o redemption_n it_o be_v the_o lord_n of_o angel_n he_o be_v here_o on_o earth_n and_o thou_o receave_v he_o he_o be_v sacrifice_v on_o the_o altar_n the_o son_n of_o god_n be_v again_o sacrifice_v for_o we_o the_o lamb_n that_o take_v away_o the_o sin_n of_o the_o world_n be_v offer_v in_o sacrifice_n by_o priest_n without_o slaughter_v we_o offer_v a_o unbloody_a sacrifice_n in_o the_o church_n it_o be_v offer_v every_o where_o it_o be_v the_o same_o which_o christ_n offer_v the_o victim_n be_v dispense_v from_o the_o altar_n we_o do_v eat_v the_o lamb_n entire_a christ_n he_o be_v the_o feast_n the_o angel_n tremble_v when_o they_o behold_v that_o wherewith_o we_o be_v feed_v christ_n be_v worship_v on_o the_o altar_n we_o adore_v the_o flesh_n of_o christ_n in_o the_o mystery_n the_o mystical_a sign_n be_v adore_v as_o be_v that_o they_o be_v believe_v to_o be_v that_o in_o the_o chalice_n be_v not_o wine_n it_o be_v blood_n it_o be_v that_o which_o do_v issue_n out_o of_o the_o side_n of_o our_o saviour_n we_o drink_v blood_n we_o drink_v blood_n with_o our_o mouth_n it_o be_v power_v into_o our_o mouth_n that_o which_o faith_n believe_v the_o same_o we_o receive_v with_o our_o mouth_n we_o receive_v the_o body_n and_o blood_n of_o jesus_n christ_n with_o our_o mouth_n into_o our_o body_n into_o our_o member_n so_o the_o father_n our_o b._n saviour_n this_o be_v my_o body_n this_o be_v my_o blood_n i_o conclude_v with_o s._n hilary_n trinit_fw-la s._n hilar._n l._n 2_o de_fw-la trinit_fw-la there_o be_v no_o place_n leave_v of_o doubt_v of_o the_o truth_n of_o the_o flesh_n and_o blood_n for_o now_o both_o by_o our_o saviour_n profession_n and_o our_o belief_n it_o be_v true_o flesh_n and_o true_o blood_n and_o these_o be_v receive_v and_o drink_v do_v bring_v to_o pass_v that_o we_o be_v in_o christ_n and_o christ_n in_o we_o the_o eigth_n chapter_n of_o transubstantiation_n 56._o in_o the_o council_n of_o trent_n be_v define_v the_o conversion_n of_o bread_n and_o wine_n into_o the_o body_n and_o blood_n of_o christ_n which_o conversion_n be_v there_o and_o in_o the_o lateran_n council_n term_v by_o a_o proper_a name_n transubstantiation_n to_o these_o counsel_n and_o to_o the_o ancient_a father_n above_o cite_v you_o oppose_v a_o few_o obscure_a sentence_n one_o out_o of_o a_o epistle_n of_o one_o john_n of_o constantinople_n false_o attribute_v to_o s._n chrysostome_n another_o out_o of_o one_o gelasius_n who_o to_o make_v your_o argument_n seem_v the_o strong_a you_o style_v pope_n but_o false_o as_o baronius_n and_o other_o have_v demonstrate_v against_o your_o caluin_n the_o three_o out_o of_o theodoret_n a_o know_a adversary_n of_o your_o cause_n mon._n ep._n ad_fw-la caes_n mon._n 57_o the_o first_o chrysostome_n say_v the_o nature_n of_o the_o bread_n remain_v answer_n it_o be_v false_a saint_n chrysostome_n say_v express_o it_o be_v change_v as_o you_o shall_v hear_v anon_o the_o epistle_n which_o you_o cite_v be_v a_o refutation_n of_o eutichianisme_n which_o begin_v many_o year_n after_o s._n chrysostome_n be_v dead_a 517._o chrysostomus_n videtur_fw-la transubstantiationon_fw-la confirmare_fw-la nam_fw-la ita_fw-la scribble_v mon_fw-fr vidos_fw-la panem_fw-la num_fw-la vinum_fw-la num_fw-la sicut_fw-la reliqui_fw-la tibi_fw-la in_o secessum_fw-la vadunt_fw-la absit_fw-la nec_fw-la sic_fw-la cogite_n nam_fw-la sicut_fw-la cera_fw-la etc._n etc._n magdeb_n cent_n 5._o c._n 4._o col_fw-fr 517._o the_o author_n of_o it_o be_v also_o against_o you_o for_o he_o say_v in_o the_o same_o place_n that_o there_o be_v not_o in_o the_o sacrament_n of_o the_o eucharist_n two_o body_n but_o one_o and_o that_o one_o the_o body_n of_o the_o son_n of_o god_n this_o man_n you_o see_v be_v not_o you_o in_o this_o point_n his_o doctrine_n take_v it_o all_o be_v not_o currant_n among_o you_o for_o if_o there_o be_v in_o the_o eucharist_n only_o one_o body_n and_o this_o one_o the_o body_n of_o the_o son_n of_o god_n than_o bread_n in_o substance_n be_v not_o there_o because_o the_o body_n of_o christ_n and_o natural_a bread_n be_v not_o one_o and_o the_o same_o body_n by_o the_o nature_n he_o mean_v the_o propriety_n or_o natural_a quality_n of_o the_o bread_n which_o be_v also_o call_v the_o nature_n and_o this_o do_v remain_v 58._o the_o second_o gelasius_n say_v naturis_fw-la de_fw-fr duab._n naturis_fw-la the_o substance_n or_o nature_n of_o bread_n do_v not_o leave_v to_o be_v answer_n the_o meaning_n of_o this_o man_n be_v that_o it_o be_v not_o annihilate_v but_o the_o substance_n be_v turn_v into_o another_o thing_n and_o so_o as_o it_o remain_v not_o in_o itself_o for_o it_o be_v turn_v but_o in_o the_o propriety_n or_o proper_a accident_n taste_n colour_n etc._n etc._n all_o this_o the_o same_o author_n teach_v in_o the_o very_a same_o place_n in_o these_o word_n they_o the_o substance_n of_o bread_n and_o wine_n do_v pass_v into_o a_o divine_a substance_n the_o holy_a ghost_n effect_v it_o yet_o remain_v in_o the_o propriety_n of_o their_o nature_n wherefore_o this_o man_n whosoever_o he_o be_v be_v no_o protestant_n in_o this_o for_o he_o that_o hold_v the_o substance_n of_o bread_n and_o wine_n to_o be_v convert_v by_o the_o power_n of_o god_n into_o a_o divine_a substance_n the_o body_n and_o blood_n of_o christ_n be_v no_o mere_a figurist_n nor_o of_o your_o school_n but_o this_o author_n do_v old_a it_o as_o you_o find_v in_o his_o own_o word_n therefore_o he_o be_v not_o a_o protestant_n as_o you_o be_v innocationem_fw-la theodor._n dial._n 1._o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d manent_fw-la enim_fw-la in_o prioris_fw-la substantiae_fw-la &_o figura_fw-la &_o forma_fw-la or_o manent_fw-la enim_fw-la in_o riri_fw-la esentia_fw-la etc._n etc._n idem_fw-la dial_n 2_o idem_fw-la transsubstantiationem_fw-la videtur_fw-la ●apere_fw-la quod_fw-la theodoretusscribit_fw-la sicut_fw-la ergo_fw-la symbola_fw-la &c_n &c_n post_fw-la innocationem_fw-la 59_o the_o three_o theodoret_n say_v our_o saviour_n deliver_v the_o sacrament_n call_v his_o body_n bread_n and_o that_o which_o be_v in_o the_o cup_n he_o call_v his_o blood_n he_o change_v the_o name_n and_o give_v his_o body_n the_o name_n which_o belong_v to_o the_o sign_n and_o to_o the_o sign_n the_o name_n which_o belong_v to_o his_o body_n answer_n read_v further_o and_o you_o meet_v the_o solution_n of_o your_o difficulty_n the_o reason_n of_o the_o change_n of_o name_n be_v because_o he_o will_v have_v such_o as_o partake_v the_o divine_a sacrament_n not_o to_o heed_v the_o nature_n of_o those_o thing_n which_o be_v see_v the_o sign_n but_o for_o the_o change_n of_o name_n to_o believe_v also_o the_o change_n that_o be_v make_v hy_z grace_n you_o reply_v out_o of_o another_o place_n the_o mystical_a sign_n after_o consecration_n depart_v not_o from_o their_o nature_n but_o abide_v still_o in_o their_o former_a substance_n and_o figure_n and_o form_n and_o may_v be_v see_v and_o touch_v as_o before_o answer_n it_o be_v true_a that_o the_o sign_n be_v not_o change_v for_o those_o be_v accident_n those_o remain_n but_o the_o substance_n whithin_v the_o sign_n or_o accident_n be_v change_v the_o thing_n be_v change_v by_o reason_n of_o that_o which_o be_v interior_a and_o within_o they_o be_v not_o change_v by_o reason_n of_o that_o which_o be_v exterior_a and_o without_o expose_v to_o the_o sense_n 〈◊〉_d mutantur_fw-la &_o alia_fw-la fium_fw-la etc._n etc._n magd._a cent_n 5._o co_fw-la 517._o ibidem_fw-la 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d and_o theodoret_n proceed_v say_v they_o be_v understand_v to_o be_v that_o they_o be_v make_v that_o be_v the_o body_n and_o blood_n of_o christ_n and_o be_v believe_v and_o adore_v as_o be_v the_o thing_n they_o be_v believe_v to_o be_v no_o man_n believe_v that_o bread_n be_v flesh_n no_o man_n do_v believe_v these_o proposition_n to_o be_v true_a bread_n be_v a_o man_n body_n bread_n be_v flesh_n flesh_n be_v bread_n no_o man_n adore_v bread_n now_o the_o mystery_n theodoret_n say_v be_v adore_v as_o be_v indeed_o the_o thing_n which_o they_o be_v believe_v to_o be_v