of his seruants and none that trust in him shall perish yea He shall redeeme Israell from all his Iniquities And so God in his owne person speaketh by his Prophet I will Redeeme them from the hand of hell I will Redeeme them from death Repentance is hid from mine eyes Here is he that first vndertooke out cause and professed and promised to be our Redeemer â—…uen the Sonne of God who being the brightnesse of glorie and the Character of his Fathers substance or liuely Image of his Person supporting all things with the word of his power made the purgation of our sinnes by himselfe that is in his owne Person Now if you being a Christian haue any bands to tie God withall besides his loue and his truth you were best shew them forth we shall otherwise take you if you stand vpon it for little better then an Arian to lay subiection or seruitude on any of the Persons in the most glorious Trinitie The word is vsed in the Scripture it selfe he was made a Suretie of a better couenant Is not this sufficient to warrant the goodnesse and aptnesse of the similitude against your vndutifull reproofes of it It is not written in the Scriptures that Christ was made our Suretie to God much lesse that he was a Suretie bound to the Law to pay our debts for vs. Our debt was euerlâ—…ting damnation of Body and Soule which either Christ or we must pay or suffer if your prophane vrging of this Similitude take place The Scripture saith He was made a Suretie of a better Testament proouing expresly by the Comparison of two Testaments a former and a weaker which was the Law a later and a better which was the Gospell that Christ was not a Suretie of the Law nor to the Law as you falsely conceaue but of a better Testament then the Law that is he was Gods assurance to vs that all his promises of â—…ercie grace and glory should stand fast notwithstanding our iniquitie indignitie and Infirmitie were neuer so vnmeete and vnworthie thereof This Suretiship of Christ to establish with his bloud the new couenant which God made with vs not we with him without all respect of our merits to pardon our offences and to make vs heires of his heauenly kingdome the Scripture mentioneth which is no more like to your Suretiship then freedome is to bondage I therefore reprooued not the word which my selfe also did vse I reprooued your seruile applying the word to bring Christ from loue and libertie which led him to be our Redeemer vnto thraldome and debt to make him thereby sinfull and defiled with our vncleannesse And is it not worthie of reproofe when a word is vsed in the Scriptures to one purpose for you to take vpon you to draw it as you list to your deuices It is plainly written in the Gospell The Sonne of man came noâ—… to be serued but to serue Will you hence presume your selfe to be Christs Master and take him bound to fulfill your Commandement as seruants must their Masters He saith of himselfe I am a worme and not a man Will you trample on him as you doe on wormes God hath giuen vs his Spirit as the pledge of our inheritance Shall we claime power ouer Gods spirit as we doe ouer pledges that are in our possession What wickednesse may not be bolstered if we stretch Similitudes vsed in the Scriptures farder then they were intended and we authorized You say Christ was not as a Suretie bound to the Law but of a better couenant euen of grace Verely a Suretie to vs of both Verely if you say that Christ was bound to vs or to the Law in both that is as well to beare our sinnes as to giue vs grace you broch two apparant blasphemies If you shift with saying Christ doth assure vs he hath done both for vs you slide from your former Assertion For that both these are done by Christ we bothagree only you would haue him when he bare our sinnes to be thereto bound and in that respect worthely condemned by the iust sentence of the Law which layeth the Penaltie on the Suretie when the Debtor cannot discharge it I told you that not onely we were in our selues to wicked and hatefull as being Enemies to haue any loue or fauour due to vs from God but also the Person of the Redeemer was so full of might and maiestie that no bands could be laid on him by the Lawe because he was afore the Law and aboue the Law that vndertooke our Redemption To this what reply yon He was a Suretie to vs of both But was he bound to vs or to the Law in either Why speake you not to that which is in Question It would well become the rest of your conceits to say that Christ was bound to redeeme vs being his Enemies and that the Sonne of God was bound to beare our burdens for vs. He promised so to doe Then the Loue of God which began it the Will which published it and the Truth which performed it are the more to be magnified by vs in the Sonne of God who could owe vs no duetie nor be bound to vs nor to the Law Those are the greatest bands that God can enter If Gods Counsels purposes and Promises be bands to barre the freedome of his fauour grace and mercie and in all these to impose on him a necessitie then is there in God no freedome but onely bondage which God forbid should come within any Christians hart He is most constant in all his thoughts words and waies which we may not thinke much lesse call debts to vs or bands to him without euident and extreame impietie but as he giueth all things to all and oweth nothing to any which the Scripture calleth his Grace whereof he is a giuer and not a Debtor so he cannot repent or change as men doe which we must ascribe to the infallible stedfastnesse of his most wise and glorious will the only Rule of all his gifts and works No band then if you know what a band meaneth can be fastned on God since that hath in it a debt which must of necessitie be yeelded whereto the partie may be compelled and forced by the right of the Law which chalenges in Gods promises are most prophane and heathenish Blasphemies It is written that Christ was made Hyponomon subiect to the Law or vnder the Law which you mightely denie against expresse Scripture You are so well acquainted with corrupting and deprauing other mens words that you make no care to doe the like to mine That Christ was vnder the Law I neuer denied no more then that he was vnder death but I said he was not bound to the Law no more then he was bound to death though he willingly for our sakes subiected himselfe to the rudiments of the Law for of those the Apostle speaketh to liue vnder them for a time
ca. 1. epist. ad Rom. through the spirit of sanctification He meaneth by the holy Ghost which Christ gaue to the beleeuers in him Theodulus x Theodulus in cap. 1. 〈◊〉 ad Romanos through the spirit of sanctification that is by the holy spirit which Christ gaue to those that beleeued in him Theophylactus y Theophylact. in ca. 1. epist. ad Romanos by the spirit of sanctification that is by the spirit with which he maketh the beleeuers holy Haymo z Haymo in ca. 1. epistolae ad Romanos the spirit of sanctification is heere taken for the holy Ghost who giueth sanctity to men and Angels who also fashioned quickened and sanctified Christs manhood in the Virgins womb of the seed of the Virgin without the seed of man The new writers with one consent as Erasmus Zuinglius Peter Martyr Bullinger Musculus Gualter Hemmingius Aretius and Caluine himselfe follow the same interpretation so that your obseruation against and after all their iudgements is misbegotte and borne out of time and brought in of purpose to paue the way for your new found fansies which haue no ground but in your new made notes as much crossing probabilitie as authoritie Yea the obseruation wrongeth the distinction of the persons in the most blessed Trinitie and dishonoreth rather the Deitie of the Sonne of God then aduanceth it whiles the Sonne of God and the spirit of holinesse being both expresly named you take them both for one person and make the Sonne of God in his diuine nature to be lesse then the possessor or giuer of life and righteousnesse eueu a receauer of both For in all these places where you say the name of spirit is vsed to signifie Christs Godhead the power and worke of the holy Ghost is there intended and expressed as that Christ was a Rom. 1. declared to be the Sonne of God by the spirit of sanctification and was b 1. Tim. 3. God manifested in the flesh iustified by the spirit as also c 1. Pet. 3. mortified in the flesh but quickned by the spirit The spirit of sanctification is the title of the holy Ghost sanctifying as well the Manhood of Christ as his members and the giuing thereof declareth the Sonne to be true God whose spirit this is as well as the Fathers and by whom the Sonne worketh as well as the Father And where it is written that Christ was Iustified and quickned by the spirit if there you reade in the spirit meaning in the Deitie of Christ then Christes Godhead receaued life and righteousnesse which by your leaue is a speech ne allowed ne frequented in the Scriptures For though the second person in Trinitie by his internall and eternall generation receaued all that he hath from the Father who begat him yet of this generation which is secret substantiall and eternall the Apostles speake not when they say Christ was quickned and iustified but the one sheweth that Christes body which was put to death was raised againe to life by the power of his spirit the other noteth that he was God manifested in the flesh and iustified that is prooued and confirmed so to be by the mightie workes and graces of Gods spirit shewed as well in his owne person as in all his members For that is the intent of the Apostles wordes not that his diuine glorie was onely praised or acknowledged of men but that the world beleeued the Angels admired the spirit iustified that is most mightily and cleerely witnessed him to be God manifested in the flesh Then hath your obseruation his full discharge since there is no one place where these wordes the spirit and flesh are applied to Christ to note his two natures though his Godhead be testified and plainely prooued in most of the same places by more pregnant wordes then spirit which is common to Angels soules and windes and onely sheweth that it is no palpable or sensible body where the name of spirit alone in the Scriptures standing for the third person in Trinity noteth the power and grace of the holy Ghost by which these things were wrought for Christs manhood And in that place of Peter on which you most depend if you follow the Syriac translation to which your owne adherents so often appeale the Apostles words are Christ was dead in body but liuâ—…d in spirit which conuinceth first that flesh is there taken for the body of Christ contrary to your obseruation and that Christ still liued in spirit which euerteth your maine conclusion intended from this place for the death of Christs soule But were it as you suppose that flesh and spirit were ascribed to Christ to declare his two natures the one to be corporall and humane the other to be spirituall and diuine how doth it follow that euery thing affirmed of his manhood must properly agree both to body and soule by what Logicke conclude you that you may as well auouch that Christs soule is truely corporall or carnall because it is comprised vnder the name of flesh as that other attributes of the body are verified in the soule Which if you thinke absurd though the name of flesh by a figure of speach import the whole man because the Scripture speaketh not of a dead but of a liuing man then is there lesse cause that ech action or passion affirmed of the flesh should exactly or properly be referred to the soule since the common vse of speach intending the whole by a part is figuratiue and in figuratiue speaches as where the soule or the flesh are taken for the whole man the attributes cannot be properly restrained to ech part no more then the names are And euen out of those places by which you would collect death to be common to the body and soule of Christ the auncient fathers conclude death to be proper to the body of Christ and not common to the soule as Austin out of Saint Peter d August 〈◊〉 99. Quid est enim quòd viuificatus est spiritu nisi quâ—…d eadem caro qua sola fuer at mortificat us viuificante spiritu resurrexit What other meaning hath this that Christ was quickned by the spirit but that the same flesh in which onely he was put to death rose againe by the quickning of the spirit And Cyrill e Cyrill de recta fide ad 〈◊〉 li. 2. Was it not a worke of infirmitie to endure the crosse I confesse saith Paul hee was weake in the flesh but he reuiued againe by the power of God And how was he weake by suffering his owne bodie to taste death for vs and restoring to life againe that very temple of his bodie not doing this by the weakenessc of his flesh but by the power of God Christ f Ibidâ—…m died for vs not as a man like one of vs but as a God in flesh giuing his owne bodie a ransome for the life of all Wherefore his Disciple Peter saith wisely and warily that
it It is a plaine true rule in mine opinion that the Euangelists and Apostles euery where by Hades intended hell and none of your wandring or stragling fansies Besides the Greeke Fathers with one consent vse Hades after the direction of the Canonicall writers for a place of darknesse vnder the earth prouided to receaue and detaine the Soules of men And in this sense neither the Scriptures nor the Fathers departed much from the auncient and true vse of the word amongst heathen and prophane Authors sauing that the Pagans made it common to the Soules of iust and vniust which the Scriptures neuer doe and the Fathers vtterly refuse after Christs Resurrection whatsoeuer they doe before Since then Hades by the manifest exposition of Saint Luke in his Gospell is the place of torment where the wicked after death are punished and the same Euangelist expresseth Dauids meaning to be this that Christs Soule after death was not left or forsaken in Hades what cause or reason hath any man to denie that Christ dying descended to hell there to spoyle powers and principalities and thence to leade Captiuitie Captiue that as he ascended to the highest heauens there to sit superiour to all the Elect Angels so he first descended to the bottomlesse deepe there to subiect the Reprobate Angels vnto his humane nature and to dissolue the power and sorrowes of hell of which it was impossible he should be held Here we must consider a maine obiection of yours euen those words of our common Creed he descended into hell originally it is he descended into Hades and in truth this is all you haue to alleadge for your opinion but I answere two waies first admitting then denying the Authoritie of these words in our common Creede You haue seene by this time what I haue to alleadge for that which I defend may besafely conceiued of the Creed The words themselues he descended to Hades haue euident warrant in the holy Scriptures and Peter exactly concludeth out of Dauids words that Christs Soule was not left in Hades What Hades is with S. Luke the writer of the Acts we likewise haue seene It is euen the place where the wicked are tormented after death Put these together and tell me what they want of Christes descending into hell before he rose from the dead The words in English he descended into hell are confirmed by the publike authoritie of this Realme as well in the Booke of common praier as in the Articles of Religion agreed on by the Conuocation and ratified by Act of Parliament So that all your euasions elusions of the priuation condition and dominion of death to be ment thereby are vtterly reiected and condemned by generall and full consent of Prince Pastours people within this Realme and Christs descent to hell after death hath beene constantly and continually professed and beleeued in the Church of England euer since the Gospell was here established What you haue said against it I leaue to the Readers wise and indifferent iudgement who wil easily tell you you must bring better sluffe then either phrases or fansies before the common Creede may be thus reiected and despised You enioyne vs three Rules to be exactly and precisely kept in the expounding of these words Namely 1. distinction of Matter 2. consequence of order 3. proprietie of words Might not those godly men thinke you misse in some such circumstances although the Scripture cannot The first compilers of the Creede meaning shortly orderly and plainly to deliuer the summe of the Christian faith as touching the three persons in Trinitie and the chiefest blessings which God bestoweth on his Church in this life and the next by Iesus Christ our Lord might not with any discretion in so briefe and compendious assume of Christian Religon proposed to the simple and vulgar sort of all ages and sexes vse either any needlesse repetition disordered confusion or obscure inuolution of things requisite to our Saluation To these Rules agree all that haue expounded the Creede in the Church of Christ to this very day saue your selfe and such as haue opened you the gap to these innouations And these Rules allowed do cleane cast your exposition out of doores For where it is most plainly said that Christ died and was buried which words no plow-man woman nor child of reasonable yeeres can mistake you after Christs buriall come in with a darke and figuratiue phrase of descending to Hades which in effect you confesse is no more but what was said before in knowen and open speech that Christ died And this obscure and strange circumlocution of death you will haue to be an Article of your faith as if euery Christian creature were bound vpon danger of his saluation to vnderstand what Sheol or Hades doth signifie in the Greeke and Hebrew Tongues which is a position meete for such a Diuine as you are Your exposition therefore is repugnant to all three Rules For it is a superfluous vnorderly enigmaticall iteration of that which was before expressed in due place with as plaine and easie wordes as any might be spoken by the tongue of man Now with what Arguments you or any man liuing Hu. Bro. not excepted can prooue that Hebrew or Greeke phrases are Articles of Religion and must be conceaued and beleeued of all men before they can be saued as yet I doe not vnderstand And this is the miserie of your cause that not onely you haue no word in Latine English nor in any tongue else answerable to your Sheol or Hades but when you come to lay open your owne phrases the exposition is more ridiculous then the Translation For by Christs descending to Hades which you call the power dominion and kingdome of death you meane no more but that Christs Soule seuered from his Body went to heauen to the rest of the blessed Soules there And here I report me to him that will vouchsafe to read your 196. 197. pages whether you haue any thing there but store of phrases extending intending enlarging amplifying the name power and dominion of death which when all is done and said amounteth to this much that Christes soule seuered by death from his body submitted it selfe to the base and low condition of the dead by taking the paines to goe to heauen to the rest of the Saints there This is all in effect that your Periphrasis and Emphasis moriendi doe containe and the great fall or whole casting downe of Christes person which you so Rhetorically set out with termes of the broadest and longest size hath nothing in it but only this that his soule after death which dissolued his person ascended to the societie of the blessed soules in heauen The rest is your emphaticall and paraphrasticall vanitie swelling with wordes and shrinking in sense which needeth none other refutation but sober obseruation that when two sides are spent nothing is said but you are where you began For would you not varie so many phrases
damned doe though in circumstances of time and place his sufferings somewhat differed from theirs Your quintessencing and new framing of another hell which the Scriptures neuer speake of your quenching hell-fire with a fansie your appointing God to be the tormentor in hell with his immediate hand your nice diuiding betweene the substance and circumstance of Gods eternall iudgements your placing the substance thereof in the apprehension of the soule and that as well in this life as in the next with a number of like audacious and desperate deuises to vphold the name or the shade of hell-paines in the sufferings of Christ wee shall anon discusse when we come to your opening of the question in the meane while the Reader must marke The question is not whether Christ bare the burden of all our sinnes on the tree or whether he were touched and tempted in all things like to his brethren yet still without sinne but whether it can be prooued by the Scriptures that Christ must beare all and the selfe same burdens of our sinnes which wee should haue borne in this life and the next and which the damned doe and shall beare Your distinction of the substance and circumstance of Gods endlesse and mercilesse vengeance of sinne in hell we shall quickly let the Reader see how vainely you presume it without all warrant of holy Scripture and how falsely you applie it to the person of Christ against the manifest Scripture if first we obserue how handsomely you set downe the doctrine which I defend in the next words to your owne hieroglyphicall question of purpose that if you cannot by trueth ouerbeare it you may at least by falshood disgrace it His contrary opinion say you we conceaue thus that Christ suffered for our sinnes nothing else but simply and meerely a bodily death altogether like as the godly doe often suffer at the hands of persecutors sauing onely that God accepted the death of his sonne as a ransome for sin but the death of his seruants he doth not Had you not seene and read my sermons printed before you made this late defence you might haue excused your selfe Sir defender by forgetting or mistaking my wordes but after so often and open repeating them in Print what cause can be imagined why you should thus apparently peruert my words and purposely forsake the points which I proposed saue onely that finding the foile and doubting a fall you would gladly slippe your necke out of the collar and seeing no better meanes you thinke it more skâ—…ll to stand wrangling about the Question then to be taken tardie with saying iust nothing in a matter of the greatest weight and chiefest regard in Christian religion My words are euery where plaine enough as well in deliuering as debating the question that Christ suffered no death saue onâ—…ly the death of the bodie by the verdit of holy Scripture and therefore whatsoeuer the Scripture speaketh of Christs death it is intended and referred to the death of Christs bodie on the Crosse and by no meanes to the death of his soule The words of my preface are these Where the Scriptures are plaine and pregnant that Christ died for our sinnes and by his death destroyed him that had power ouer death euen the Deuill and reconciled vs when we were strangers and enemies in the body of his flesh besides that the holy Ghost in these places by expresse words nameth the bodily death of Christ as the meane of our redemption and reconciliation to God no considerate Diuine may affirme or imagine Christ suffered the death of the soule When I come in my Sermons to handle that point I thus beginne it That Christ did or could suffer the death of the soule is a position farre from the words but farther from the groundes of sacred Scriptures When I shew the Fathers doe ioyne in the same resolution with the Scriptures I say Rightly therefore doe the Ancient Fatâ—…ers teach that Christ dying for our sinnes suffered ONELY THE DEATH OF THE BODIE BVT NOT OF THE SOVLâ—… Concluding their testimonies I capitulate in this wise I hope to all men learned or well aduised it will seeme no Iesuiticall phrenzie but rather Christian and Catholike doctrine that the Sonne of God dying for our sinnes suffered NOT THE DEATH OF THE SOVLE BVT ONELY OF THE BODIE If you vnderstand not these words Sir Defender your Reader will iudge you fitter to learne your abc then to dispute questions in Diuinitie if you doe conceaue them and will peruert them let him likewise pronounce whether it be sinceritie or impudencie in you thus to outface the matter against my plaine speach and to make Proclamation that I defend Christ suffeâ—…ed nothing else for our sinnes but simply and meerely a bodyly death altogether like as the godly often doe at the hands of persecutors Had you said I maintaine Christ suffered no death but onely a bodily death I would haue asked you by what Scriptures you or all your adherents can disproue it but charging me as you doe with this opinion that Christ suffered nothing else but simply and meerely a bodily death altogether like the godly I must tell you this is one of your trueths which many men will call a malitious leasing since my wordes are publikely extant to the contrarie My first resolution was Christ saw before hand that going to his Crosse he should tast all kindes of calamities and so it came to passe For betweene his last Supper and his death he was betrayed of Iudas abiured of Peter forsaken of all his followers he was wrongfully imprisoned falsly accused uniustly condemned he was buffeâ—…ed whipped skorned reuiled he endured cold nakednesse thirst wounding hanging shame reproach and all sorts of deadly paines besides heauinesse of hart and agonie of mind which oppressed him in the Garden All this I affirme Christ suffered before his death and therefore all this besides his meere bodily death to which I added all those afflictions and passions of the Soule which naturally and necessarily follow paine and accompany death You perchance would annex the paines of hell and the death of the Soule but those are the very points in question which I then did and yet doe vtterly exclude from the sufferings of Christ. Where you say I hold Christs death was altogether like as the godly doe suffer at the hands of Persecutors I know not what you meane by your altogether in some things his death was like theirs in many things vnlike A wrongfull and painefull death of the body he suffered at the hands of the Iewes as the godly doe often at the hands of their persecutors and a full perswasion he alwaies had of Gods exceeding and assured loue and fauour towards him in the middest of all his anguishes as the godly haue in theirs though in farre lesse perfection then his was but as touching the cause the manner the force of his death I make it altogether vnlike theirs
of Christ the perfection of whose confidence and patience hee would demonstrate to Angels and men and propose him a paterne to all the Sonnes of God how to humble themsâ—…lues vnder the mightie hand of God and accept his obedience vnto death as a most precâ—…ous and pleasing satisfaction and sacrifice for the sinnes of his elect and reward his humilitie with vnspeakeable honour in making him Lord and Iudge of all both men and Angels not onely to confound the pride and suppâ—…esse the power of Satan but to adiudge him to euerlasting torments with all the wicked and accursed Against the tenor and effect of this Christian confession which I referre to the iudgements of all that be learned rightly instructed in the sacred Scriptures I neuer speake any one word to my knowledge I cannot in euery sentence repeate euery circumstance nor of euery page make a paire of Indentures much lesse may I forsake the forme of holsome words deliuered in the Scriptures But the maine summe and scope of this doctrine being so fully declared and so often repeated by me I had no reason to feare the capacity or doubt the memorie of any heedfull Reader And howsoeuer some shallow trifler may picke out a word heere and there to carpe at yet are there so many cleere places to direct all doubts that no man needeth to stumble but he that will not or can not stand vpright For let the Christian Reader looke but to the marke at which I aime in euery place and remember these two rules that of three sorts of death which onely are mentioned in the Scriptures as the wages of sinne to wit corporall spirituall and eternall death I alwayes remoue the two last from the person of Christ by describing or naming the first which was his corporall death and in that I conteine the whole course and maner of his death that is the feares forrowâ—…s shames temptations derisions smarts and paines which the Scriptures record in the history of his death and all my words will prooue plaine and easie which this maâ—… thinketh so false in themselues so contrary to themselues Examine my words which he hath brought for examples of contradiction and falsity and see whether his labour be any more than meere nugation and vanitie Aâ—…ouching and prouing that Christ could not suffer eternall damnation which is the full wages of sinne nor the death of the soule which by the Scriptures must exclude Christ from the fauour and grace trueth and spirit of God and giuing the reasons why sinne could not preuaile vpon his person as it did vpon others I conclude What maruell then if sinne which should haue wrought in vs an eternal destruction both of bodie and soule could not farther preuaile in him that is to none other kinde of death but to the wounding of his flesh and shedding of his blood for the iust and full satisfaction of all our sinnes euen in the righteous and sincere iudgement of God In this I free Christ from eternall destruction or death of bodie and soule which was the wages of sinne in our persons but could not take holde on his as the difference there betwixt him and vs declareth I exempted him by proofs in the page precedent from the death of the soule which was the maine scope of that section and so leâ—…t him subiect onely to the third kinde of death which was corporall and might be suffered not onely without all taint of sinne losse of grace and change of Gods fauour but euen with great manifestation of Gods power and wisdome in his death and commendation of Christs obedience and patience vnto death That third kinde of death I doe not name but describe by the wounding of Christes flesh and shedding of his blood the rest of his paines and griefes that went bâ—…fore not being excluded as superfluous but continued and increased by that sharpe and â—…xtreame martyrdome which he endured on the crossâ—… as my caueat touching Christs Crosse did plainly admonish And since the whole maner of Christes dâ—…ath and shedding his blood expressed in the Scriptures is the thing that I alwayes intend and the word doth import when I name or touch the death of Christ all that he voluntarily or violently suffered when he yeelded himselfe to be put to death â—…s comprised in the mention of his death Besides that Christ by his bloody sweat in the garden beganne of his owne accord in some sort to effuse his blood for our sakes and safeties and the efore it could haue no iust reason to imagine that my words exclude his agonie and other passions of the soule mentioned in the Scriptures specially my very next words affirming that the same part might and did suffer in Christ which sinned in man to wit the soule though by no meanes it could receiue the same wages which we should haue receiued But I professe by the generall title of my Sermons the full redemption of mankinde by the death and blood of Christ and commend the jâ—…ce and fruit of his bodily death as most sufficient That indeed is very dangerous to your fansie who hold the ioynt sufferings of Christes soule from and by his body not properly to pertaine to mans redemption for that they are common to men with beasts and therefore labour to frustrate all the words of the Holy Ghost deliuered in the Scriptures as improper and impertinent to our saluation but to me there can be no danger in the trueth nor doubt of the fruit or force of those things which the spirit of God so often and euidently commendeth vnto vs in the â—…acred Scriptures as the price of our redemption and meanes of our reconciliation to God In Christ sayth Paul we haue redemption by his blood euen the remission of our sinnes Redemption by Christs blood you will and must gâ—…ant the Holy ghost doth directly auouch it but whether that redemption be full and most sufficient which is purchased by the blood of Christ you doe make some doubt or els you need not sticke at my words which import so much Of that if you doubt you must beare the name of some other sect and not of a Christian for no Christian may doubt whether the redemption which we haue by the blood of Christ be fâ—…ll and suffâ—…cient or no. To make Christ in part a Sauiour is to make him in part no Sauiour contrary to S Peter who sayth There is no saluation in any other If you will deâ—…iue our whole redemption from him but not from his blood shed for vs then giue you S. Iohn the lie who sayth The blood of Iesus Christ clenseth vs from all sinne Clensing from all sinne is full and perfect redemption from sinne and sinne being fully remitted and purged there is no cause of breach betweene God and vs that should hinder our saluation Christ by his owne blood sayth Paul entred once into the holy place hauing purchased eternall
much deceaued when he said vnto him that stood there in presence Thou art the sonne of the liuing God and Christ himselfe was more then deceaued when he answered s Matth 16. Blessed art thou for flesh and bloud hath not reuealed it vnto thee but my Father which is in heauen Then speaketh not Athanasius of Christs diuine nature but of his person which was t Athanasius contra 〈◊〉 serm 4. ALWAIES in his father that is before he spake those words and after And euen when he spake those words the father declared saith Athanasius by the miracles presently following that he was THEN ALSO in his sonne incarnate as euer before Doth not this directly conclude that Athanasius intended God was in the speaker of those words euen when he spake them and that at no time the father forsooke the person incarnate no not when he spake those words since God to shew that he had not forsaken him who then spake vnto him made heauen and earth to witnesse how much he esteemed the person that so complained u Defenc pag. 113. li. 35. Touching Christs humanity Athanasius denieth not but God might for sake it for so the Scripture saith The question is not for the word but for the sense You finding the word of forsaking to be vsed in the Scripture put what sense you list to it and thence would prooue the death of Christs soule with as strange positions as the maine error it selfe For you grant Christs manhood was not forsaken neither of Gods FAâ—…OVR nor GRACE nor of continuall and constant ioy in God much lesse of What contrarieties the Defender is driuen to the fulnesse of Gods spirit which rested on him and yet you say he died the death of the soule for want of comsort As if there were no comfort neither in the grace nor in the fauour of God nor in the ioies of his spirit nor in the hope of his promises all which were most assured to him to the highest degree that any creature was capable of Did you meane that he had no ease of his paines nor end of reproches whiles he liued as also no deliuerance from the hands of his persecutors nor protection from death all these might be borne with since the Scriptures giue manifest testimony that these things he suffered till he died but these things that are true will not serue your turne you vrge his soule died because he had no heauenly life such as he tasted in his transfiguration where x Matth. 17. his face did shine as the 〈◊〉 and the clothes were as white as the light which prooueth his soule to be no more dead in his passion then it was all his life long besids and that will no man in his right wits auouch of Christ or of his Saints here in earth y Defenc pag. 114. li. 1. 4. Your fift exposition is Leos conceit without warrant farre fetcht hardly applied Origen is also here as weake Pricke on in your pride despising all the world besids your selfe and skorning euery mans opinion that hitteth not right with your fansie though The fift sense of Christes complaint on the crosse few men speake or write so absurdly and falsly as you doe Leos exposition vtterly subuerteth your hellish assertion and that maketh you fling it away with such disdaine as you doe Otherwise it hath more vicinity with the circumstances of the text then yours by many degrees For there is nothing in Leos interpretation which accordeth not with the Christian faith and hath his foundation in the very words of the sacred Scriptures in both which your hellish and harrish application faileth He saith z Leo de Pass Dom. serm 16. Vox ista doctrina est non querela those words were an instruction not a lamentation And his reason is past your refuting Cum in Christo Dei hominis vna sit persona nec potuerit ab eo relinqui à quo non poterat separari pro nobis trepidis infirmis interrogat cur caro pati metuens ex audita non fuerit Since in Christ there was but one person of God and man he could not be for saken of him from whom he could not be seuered he ASKETH for our sakes that are fearefull and weake why flesh fearing to suffer was not heard Which of these things can you refell with all the witte in your head the coniunction and communion of both natures in one person of Christ you were not best meddle with lest you sowe damnable heresies as thicke as you haue done notable absurdities He saith further Cur for quare and non exandities for relictus Aske the Boyes in Pauls schoole what difference betwixt cur and quare both signifying WHY and being both interrogatiues as Leo rightly obserueth concurring with that of Saint Austen who said as we haue heard before a August epist. 120. Causam commonuit requirendam cum addidit vt quid dereliquistime Christ warned them to search for the cause when he added WHY HAST THOV FORSAKEN ME His exposition of the word forsaking he taketh out of the very Psalme whence Christ cited the rest For so Dauid ioined them together My God my God why hast thou forsaken me and art so farrc from sauiâ—…g or deliuering me I crie by day and thou hearest not So that not to heare and not to deliuer is the forâ—…aking which Dauid ment in that place and which in all likelihood our Sauiour intended as Saint Austen thinketh if he spake of his owne person b August Ibid. Quare me dereliquisti tanquam diceret relinquendo me hoc est non me exaudiendo longè factus es à salute mea praesenti scilicet salute huius vitae Why hast thou forsaken me as if he should haue said leauing me that is not hearing me thou art farre from sauing me to wit from the present safety of this life So saith Leo. c De Passione serm 16. In ipso tantae victoriae exaltatus triumpho causam rationem qua sit relictus id est non exauditus inquirit Christ exalted in the triumph of so great a victory inquireth the cause reason why he is forsaken that is not heard The reason therof he giueth soberly learnedly and truely howsoeuer your humour like it not d Idem de Pass Dom. serm 17. That the Lord should be deliuered to his passion it was as well his Fathers will as â—…is owne vt 〈◊〉 non solum Pater relinqueret sed etiam ipse se quadam ratione desereret That not only the father might leaue him but that after a sort he should forsake himselfe not by any fearefull shrincking but by a voluntary cession For the power of Christ crucisied conteined it selfe from those wicked ones and to performe his secret disposition he would not vse any manifest power He that came by his passion to destroy death and the author of death how should he saue sinners if he would
bend against all rules of learning Logicke Grammar and Diuinitie For I pray you in Grammar what is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 here vsed by the Apostle Are the parts heere noted that were crucified and raised to life or the cause from which first death was suffered and after life was recouered by our Sauiour A man would thinke that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 were by or through weaknesse euen as 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is by or through the power of God Christ then was crucified not by the immediate hand of God but by the Iewes who could not crucifie his soule as they did his bodie If you know not who crucified Christ reade the Gospell afresh or hearken to S. Peter who sayd to the Iewes g Act. 2. Iesus of Nazaret haue ye taken by the hands of the wicked and crucified and slaine and proclaimed openly to the Rulers of the people and Elders of Israel h Act. 4. Be it knowen to you all and to all the people of Israel that by the name of Iesus Christ of Nazaret whom ye haue crucified whom God raised againe from the dead by him this Creeple standeth whole before you The Iewes then i 1. Cor. 2. crucified the Lord of glorie who could not kill the soule but onely the bodie Therefore they crucified onely his bodie and other crucifiers of Christ the Scripture nameth none How come you then against all learning and trueth to collect that Christs soule was crucified k Defenc. pag. 139. li. 25. His infirmitie the text heere nameth metonimically vnderstanding in Christ that in which his infirmities were When the plaine text will not serue your turne you fasten what you list with figures to it and then by as good Logicke you change a part into the whole and conclude like a Doter in Diuinitie for you skorne all degrees as you doe all rules of Schoole that Christs soule was nailed to the crosse for that is crucifying and died as well as his body These be woonderous leapes in my small vnderstanding and such as few men but you could light on so readily In stâ—…d of the Apostles speech that Christ was crucified 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 through infirmitie or by reason of infirmitie voluntarily imbraced whiles he submitted himselfe to his Fathers will to clap in this conclusion that Christ was crucified and died as well in soule as in body Had you liued in former ages what heresies could not you haue deduced from the text it selfe if not by Grammaticall or Logicall inference yet by metonymicall and metaphoricall excurrence Sampsons riddle was out of the strong came sweetnesse and we may say out of the weake commeth bitternesse l Defenc. pag. 139. li. 37. Other reasons also I noted seruing well heereunto but I omit to rehearse them againe For it seemeth your selfe agreeth with vs in them holding expresly that the spirit heere in Peter is the Deitie of Christ according to Austins iudgement Now this being granted and acknowledged how can it be likely but that the other opposite part of the flesh must needes import his whole and entire Manhood m Pag. 140. li. 11. Now this being so then it followeth by the text that Christ in his Passion was done to death both in soule and body Your other reasons tended after your maner to shew that spirit in Peters words did not signifie the soule of Christ to which I said nothing because I therein agreed with you Where then you conclude ouer-hastily that therefore it signifieth the Deitie of the second person in Trinitie the text enforceth no such thing as that the second person in Trinitie did in the daies of Noe preach by his owne Godhead and not by his spirit n Gene. 6. The Lorde said my spirit shall not alway strine with man his daies shall be 120. yeeres Which whether we take to be the wordes of the Father or the Sonne by the spirit there is ment the holy Ghost which proceedeth from the Father and the Sonne and is called the spirit of them both and did by the tongue of Noe the Preacher of righteousnesse witnesse the iudgement of God to come by the floud vpon the wicked and disobedient world By this power of his which is his spirit God quickned the humane flesh of Christ when it was crucified and dead in the graue and by the same spirit shall he restore and quicken all the bodies of the faithfull after they be turned to dust And although I haue no doubt but the workes of the Trinitie towards all creatures are vndeuided and the power of the Father is the power of the Sonne yet when the Scriptures doe testifie that Christes humane flesh was quickned by the spirit we must vnderstand the holy Ghost God the Father raising his Sonne and the Sonne raising himselfe by the spirit of sanctification which is the power of the Father and of the Sonne So speaketh the Apostle to the Romanes o Rom. 1. Christ made of the seede of Dauid as touching the flesh and declared to be the Sonne of God with power through the spirit of sanctification by the resurrection from the dead Where his flesh made of the seede of Dauid prooueth him to be a true man and the mightie declaration of him to be the Sonne of God sheweth his Diuine nature and glorie which most appeared by the woonderfull works and gifts of the spirit of sanctification powred out on all his after he was once riâ—…en from the dead Least you thinke this my deuice to defeate your obseruation heare what the learned and auncient Fathers say thereof Chrysostome vpon those wordes of Paule Christ was declared to be the Sonne of God with power through the spirit of sanctification p Chrysoâ—…t in epistolam ad Romanos ho-â—…l 1. The fourth argument of Christs Diuinitie is drawen saith he from the spirit which he gaue to those that beleeued in him and by which he sanctified them all Wherefore Paule saith through the spirit of sanctification For onely God was able to giue those kindes of giftes Ierom. Through the spirit of sanctification Paul q Hieron in ca. 1. epistola ad Romanos noteth heere the holie Ghost the Creator Ambrose Paul r Ambros inca primum 〈◊〉 ad Romanos calling Christ the Sonne of God sheweth God to be his father and adding the spirit of sanctification noteth the mistery of the Trinity Augustine that Paul saith s August in expositio inchoata epistolae ad Rom. Through the spirit of sanctification he meaneth because they receaued the gift of the spirit after Christs resurrection Theodoret the Apostle heere teacheth t Theodoretus in ca. 1. epist. ad Rom. that he who was called the Sonne of Dauid according to the flesh was declared to be the sonne of God by the power which was shewed from the holy Ghost after our Lord Iesus was risen from the dead Oecumenius u Oecumenius in
withholding from hence all mens soules departed This last way is not the vnlikeliest You haue created vs new places of meere priuations which neuer were now you take vpon you to create some new persons of vnresistable power and all this you confesse is your conceauing and drawing Saint Lukes wordes whither you list But what hath the Christian faith to doe with these monstrous and impious conceits of yours For euen here where you speake of Christ you conceaue as it were some person of vnresistable power which you call hades that did and doth take his and all mens soules from hence Had hades any power ouer Christ which he could not resist Will you beginne to play the Manichee in conceauing a power of euill vnresistable to the Sonne of God and why runne you hunting after strange senses and significations of the word hades when you haue the same Canonicall writer whose wordes you would interpret expounding this very word in the Gospel which he likewise wrote as well as he did the Acts of the Apostles The place of torment where the rich man was punished after death Saint Luke in his Gospell expresly calleth 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 hades Would you wish any better expositor of Saint Lukes wordes then Saint Luke himselfe who telleth you that he calleth the place of torment for the wicked after this life by the name of Hades Put his owne exposition to his owne words and you may soone see the trueth if you haue not sworne to resist it Thou wilt not leaue my soule in hades that is the place of torment for the wicked Against this exposition though it be Saint Lukes you bend your wittes and though you feare no shadowes as you told vs euen now hauing hades for your helper yet you catch after shadowes and cannot see the light of trueth you beate your braines so much about figures and phrases which haue no warrant but in your slender conceit and slipperie tongue Howbeit let vs heere them since you rest so assured of them You obiect we must not make a figuratiue sense but where manifest need is Heere is no need of a figuratiue sense therefore heere ought to be no sigure to be supposed I answer First we graunt your conclusion Whether of the two former waies we take hades there is simply no figure at all therein If you take hades for the place where soules after this life are kept in darknesse and destruction vnder the earth you make no figure indeed by the verdict of holy Scriptures else take it how you will it is a figure or a meere fiction of yours which is woorse then a figure For since hades by your confession is originally the place where nothing is seene if you take hades either for the state of soules in that place or for the power or person of him who is ruler of that place you do neither of these without a figure As for the priuation of this life which must vsually be precedent before a man can goe to that place because it is a place for the dead and not for the liuing some onely excepted who descended to hades aliue That is a passage to the place or state of hades it is not the place or state of it selfe since either of these is positiue and not meerely priuatiue and expresseth the condition of soules receaued in that place and not onely the want of this life As for one common place or state of all soules deceased this is your vnwise fansie which hath no ground either in diuinity or humane learning by reason you take the forsaking and lacking of this life for a state or place of men departed in which no man staieth but is presently caried by angels good or badde to the places of receit where they remaine in ioy or paine according to the difference of their mansions which are either heauen or hell Then your owne sense of hell in this place is cleane ouerthrowen by your selfe For whensoeuer Hades or Sheól doe signifie hell it is indeed by a figure Synecdoche where the whole is set for a part which I haue prooued at large before and particularly by Tremellius a sufficient man for his Hebrew skill Of Sheol Tremellius speaketh of Hades he saith nothing and his rule concerneth the vse of that word in the old Testament where Sheol importeth both the graue and hell he speaketh not of the new Testament where hades is distinguished in manifest wordes from Thanatos death and is by Saint Iohn made consequent after death Since then hades in Saint Lukes wordes is a different thing from the death of Christes flesh which was not left in corruption and a place appointed for the soules adiudged to torments after this life as appeareth by his Gospell I make no figure in these wordes Thou wilt not leaue my soule in hell for all your large brags and weake proofes And yet when I spake of no figuratiue sense I thereby excluded all metaphoricall significations of the word hades and not Synecdoche which admitteth the sense to be proper as well in a part as in the whole Thirdly it seemeth conuenient and also likelie to take hades heere by a Prosopopaea after our third sense before noted Which kinde of figure supposeth as it were a person of that thing which otherwise the word properly signifieth He that careth for no trueth may new cast the Scriptures into what sense he will by emptie figures To take the place for the persons possessing it is not vnusuall in the Scriptures And so S. Iohn saith Hades shall be cast into the lake of fire meaning the diuell and his angels and not your emphaticall power of death But this is nothing to Saint Lukes words thou wilt not leaue my soule in hades since it can haue no sense that Christes soule should not be left in the diuell The rest of the places which heere you repeate and apply them with seeming to your senses we shall haue occasion after to rippe vp there we shall speake farder of them In the meane space you will prooue without figures that in the words of Saint Luke expressing Dauids sentence there ought of necessitie to be vnderstoode a figuratiue sense For take them literally as I doe and they impugne the grounds of faith and charitie which is sufficient to cause a figuratiue sense in the Scriptures I maruell all this while that hauing so sound exceptions against the literall sense as you talke of you spend so much time in trifles and let the maine matters alone This is woorth the hearing if you can performe what you promise otherwise a mountaine doth hatch a mouse which the prouerbe telleth you will mooue laughter But how doth the sense which I giue impugne faith and charitie Verily this your sense implyeth by the way and consequently that a good and sinnelesse man yea the best that euer was woorthie of Paradise and the highest heauens yet after death did goe to
Agonie after an Angell appeared from heauen and comforted or strengthened him with a message from God it seemeth rather an effect of Christes intentiue prayer which the Scripture there mentioneth than a consequent to any other passion or paine Christes intentiue prayer after comfort receiued by an Angell from heauen might proceed from his ardent desire care and zeale of our redemption from the wrath of God and protection from the rage of Satan And therefore as the Prophet foreshewed he should not onely beare the sinnes of many but pray for the Trespassers Christ might spend all the spirits and powers of bodie and soule in most vehement and feruent prayer euen vnto a bloudie sweat to haue all his members pardoned their sinnes and reconciled to God by the sacrifice of his bodie which he would offer for them and also to haue Satan cast out from accusing them and in the end trodden vnder their feet If Christes bloudie sweat were supernaturall we must aske no cause thereof but leaue it to his sacred will who could aboue nature doe what he would That it was no proofe of hell paines appeareth plainly because Christ after in greater paines on the Crosse did not sweat bloud and of all those whom these men imagine suffered hell paines in the Scriptures no one can be produced that euer sweat bloud The word forsaking vsed by Christ in his Complaint on the Crosse doth not in all the Scriptures inferre the paines of the damned but in the wicked it noteth reiection desperation and feare of damnation and in the godly it argueth want of protection or decrease of consolation in their troubles In Christ it might shew the time the cause the maner or the griefe of his being so long forsaken and left to the rage and reproch of his persecutors without any sensible signe of Gods loue towards him care for him helpe in his troubles or exse in his paines but it doth not prooue that Christ thought himselfe forsaken of Gods fauour grace or spirit which feare or doubt could not be in him without a manifest touch of error and want of faith Christ neuer feared nor doubted that he should or could perish vnder the hand of God persuing our sinnes in the bodie of his flesh but for the ioy set before him endured the Crosse and despised the shame and as S. Peter sayth of him at the time of his suffering he alwayes beheld God at his right hand that he should not be shaken and therefore his heart reioyced and his tongue was glad and his flesh rested in hope because his soule should not be forsaken in hell nor his flesh see corruption Christ was made a curse for vs in that he suffered the temporall and corporall curses of the Law threatned vnto sinners as all sorts of afflictions belonging to this life and in the end a painfull and shamefull death by which he abolished the spirituall and eternall curse of God due to vs for sinne but he was neuer inwardly truely nor eternally accursed of God since by tasting of our externall curse for a time he made vs partakers of his spirituall and celestiall blessednesse for euer Christ who knew no sinne was made sinne for vs that is either the punishment of our sinnes or the sacrifice for our sinnes for we were healed by his stripes and he gaue himselfe for vs a sacrifice of a sweet smell to God Being then an holy and acceptable sacrifice to God for sinne he was neither defiled nor hatefull to God with our sinnes but suffered the iust for the vniust that is he tooke vpon him the punishment of our sinnes though he were most innocent and by the holinesse of his person submitting himselfe to the death of the crosse purged our vncleannesse by his innocencie couered our guiltinesse and by his fauour with God reconciled vs that were enemies Christ bare the full punishment of our sinnes that is not all which we should haue borne for then he must haue beene euer lastingly reiected confounded and condemned to hell fire which are most horrible blasphemies but he bare so much of the punishments of this life where he suffered as in his person by the iust iudgement of God was most sufficient for all our sinnes TOuching Christs descent to hell the words are plainly cited by Peter out of Dauid that Christes soule after death should not be left in Hades which Saint Luke in his Gospell vseth for the place where torments are prepared for the wicked after this life And in that sense is the word vsed thorowout the New Testament as likewise the Greeke Fathers tooke it for the place vnder the earth whither the soules of all men were condemned for sinne and where the Diuels detaine and torment the wicked That Christ likewise descended to the lower parts of the earth and to the bottomlesse deepe after death is vouched by Saint Paul whereupon the whole Church of Christ from the beginning hath confessed his descent to hel to be a point of Christian pietie Peters Sermon in the second of the Acts intended not simply to proue that Christ was risen from the dead as Lazarus and others were but affirmed farder of him That God raised him vp to set him on Dauids Throne that is to make him King of Glorie This he prooueth In that Christes flesh could not see corruption nor his soule be forsaken in hell which was verified in none no not in Dauid who were all dead and saw corruption but only in the Messias It was therefore impossible that either death or hell should detaine Christ but he was to rise Lord of death and hell and the Sauiour of all his from both as appeared by his ascending to heauen and sitting at the right hand of God Neither was this strange to the Iewes who were taught to expect that to be performed by the Messias which God promised by his Prophet O Death I will be thy death O Hell I will be thy destruction Sheol in the Olde Testament signifieth the Graue and Hell that is the places whither the dead bodies of all men went and whither the soules of the wicked dead in sinne descended after death And therefore where it is distinguished from the death of the bodie or referred to the soule after death as it is in Dauids words applied by Peter to Christ it apparently signifieth Hell The ends of Christes descent are likewise deriued from the Scriptures as the destroying of the Diuels kingdome and triumphing ouer powers and principalities and making an open shew of them spoiling them by deliuering all his Elect dead liuing and yet vnborne from the right power and feare of eternall death taking into his hands the Keyes of Death and Hell that he might be Lord of all in Heauen Earth and Hell The Creed is not a Collection of Greeke or Hebrew phrases vnknowen to the people but a short summe of the Christian faith prouided for the simpler sort of men to learne by heart And therefore as
submission and patience of his Sonne on the Crosse. More then this if you will vrge on the person of Christ as needefull for our Redemption first proue it and then professe it at your pleasure otherwise if you boldly and vainely presume it your addle and idle wordes can not preiudice the setled and vndoubted principles of the Christian faith warranted by the word of God and fully receaued by the Church of Christ euen from the beginning To your maimed and ruinous foundation that Christ must suffer all and the very same punishment wages and vengeance of sinne which the damned doe suffer and we should haue suffered had we not beene excused by his suffering it for vs I haue plainly and sadly answered I know not how often it is a false and lewd imagination and so impious that your selfe dare not in your late Defence offer it to vew without many bridles to holde it from horrible blasphemie But Sir discourser why coyne you conclusions in christian Religion that must haue three or foure exceptions to saue them from open impietie and why see you not that your speciall reseruations ouerthrow the truth of your owne assertion for where the true and proper punishment wages and vengeance of sinne in all the wicked is spirituall corporall and eternall death in your limitations at last which you forgate at first you except Christ from spirituall death which is sinne and from eternall death which is damnation of body and soule to hell fier yet you still affirme that Christ suffered the full proper punishment wages and vengeance of sinne as though these two spirituall and eternall death were no parts of the punishment vengeance due to sin or these being excepted as vnfit for Christ to suffer you could truely say Christ suffered the full and proper punishment and vengeance of sinne which consisteth of these three kinds of death And who but you would send vs such headlesse and senselesse resolutions in Diuinitie as these are I affirme that Christ suffered all gods proper wrath and vengeance for sinne I say all that the very damned do suffer namely so described and limited as is aboue said And againe He suffered from Gods hand euen as the damned doe namely in these points which are both possible and reasonable Were you some new Euangelist or vpstart Apostle it were euen enough for you to referre Christs sufferings to your description and your limitation without any farther authority but when you take vpon you with your bare word to broch so many nouelties in Christian religion without one line or letter of holy writ to vpholde your dreames and deuices who can chuse but deride your follie You pinne mens faiths for the ground of their saluation to your descriptions and your limitations to possibilitie and reason measured by your rule without any text or title of Scripture to warrant your words and then you thinke the maine question is profoundly and fully handled but your sober and wise Reader will presently finde the lamenesse or leudnesse of your grand conclusion For if Christs person not only by your possibilitie and reason but by the soundnesse of trueth and sincerenesse of faith must be exempted from sinne which is the death of the soule and from damnation which is euerlasting death why write you so boldly that Christ must suffer all Gods proper wrath euen all that the damned do suffer whereas apparently those two being excepted Christ could suffer no kinde of death but only a corporall And if by your so describing and so limiting the matter you draw Christ within the staine or guilt of sinne or within the compasse or danger of damnation hope you to finde any Christian eares so patient that will endure that monstrous and sacrilegious indignitie But you will inuent a new hell for Christ which shall haue the substance but not the circumstance of damnation and shal be inflicted by Gods immediate hand properly ye a only in the verie soule of Christ which Gods owne infinite wrathfull power and iustice can inflict for satisfaction where and how it pleaseth him The question good Sir is not of Gods power what he can do but of his will reuealed in his Word and of his promise performed in the person of his sonne for our saluation and testified by the mouthes and pennes of the Prophets and Apostles that were guided by his holy spirit to speake and write the trueth I make no doubt but God can create another heauen another earth and another hell as quickly and as easily as he did these that now are yet if any man affirme that God will so do or hath so done I must holde him for an Infidell because he gainsayth Gods trueth and belieth Gods will by pretending Gods power Talke not therefore what God can doe shew rather by the word and witnesse of trueth what God hath done to that must we trust to that are you bound and from that are you slipt You haue not so much as any colour of Scripture for these desperate nouelties and vanities I will giue them no woorse words lest you complaine of my bitternesse and if any man be but so wise as to let your proue these things before he beleeue them he is safe enough for euer admitting them I may spare my paines in refuting them yet because destitute of all other helpe you appeale to possibilitie and reason to fourbish your new inuention of another hell let vs see how handsomely you hale it onward By the law of our creation as we are men hauing a soule besides our bodie so our soule hath in it a threefolde facultie of suffering paines First that which is proper and immediate iustly so called proper because it is proper only to reasonable and immortall spirits Immediate two wayes First because it can and doth receiue an impression of sorrow and paines made from God only by and in it selfe without any outward bodily meanes thereunto Secondly it is also an immediate punishment or els correction of sinne it commeth not for any other cause at all So that thus we meane when we speake of the soules proper and immediate suffering The soules second facultie of suffering paines is not proper but common to vs with beasts namely that which is by sympathie and communion with and from the body A third kinde of painfull suffering the soule hath namely her vehement and strong affections are painfull whether they be good or euill as zeale loue compassion pitie care c. neither are these immediatly for sinne whether punishments or corrections neither are they punishments or corrections at all properly in themselues accidentally they may be when they grow so strong that they paine and grieue the soule If the walles and roofe of your new hell rise no fairer nor stand no faster then your foundation doth a weake puffe of winde will blow all away If a man should shortly answer you That the soule of man hath but one
raging lustes and vntamed affections as he did in Cain Saul Achitophel Iudas and dayly doth in all the wicked In the outward punishments of this life where God turneth the furie and violence of his creatures to reuenge sinne and the seruice of men Angels and deuils to pursue the wicked to their destruction and to chastise his owne to their conuersion the hand of God doth euery where appeare by the Scriptures but that is nothing to your immediate suffering of the soule For first in them God vseth his creatures as his agents and instruments and where his immediate hand may happily be conceaued to worke without meanes there he punisheth the soule by the bodie which by your owne position is not the proper and immediate suffering of the soule In the feare shame and griefe which the soule here conceaueth vpon the denouncing conuicting or beholding of her owne vncleannesse and the terrible iudgements of God against sinne the power trueth and iustice of God are euident but not that immediate hand of God which you imagine For in this case God punisheth the soule by her selfe that is by her intellectiue or sensitiue faculties letting her plainely perceiue what ioy is lost and what vengeance is prouided for all the workers of wickednesse The losse of which blisse and terrour of which vengeance apprehended by outward sense or inward intelligence cannot but mightily grieue and afflict the soule And the greater the losse that is irreuocable as also the soarer the mischiefe that is ineuitable the deeper is the wound that either of them make in the heart of man But this feare and griefe whiles here men liue proceede from the cogitation and perswasion of the minde and conscience and not from the immediate hand of God And in the world to come the horrour of hell and rage of fire which God hath ordained to punish the soule shall inflict an intollerable torment not rising from the minds and wils of the wicked as in this world it doth but impressed by an externall and violent agent which is the meanes that God hath prepared to execute vengeance on men and deuils How beit in none of all these appeareth that immediate suffering of the soule from the hand of God alone which you so much talke of and to which you would so faine subiect the soule of Christ to make him suffer the substance of that which the damned according to your dreame doe feele in hell For in your conceit of the soules immediate suffering from the hand of God the soule must onely be a patient and no agent and God must inflict the paine on the soule with his owne hand and not by any meanes without or within the soule onely the soule must feele and discerne the present and inherent paine by her passiue power and facultie by which she is capable of all paine whence soeuer or howsoeuer it commeth This kind of suffering you euery where affirme you no where prooue and that which is most absurd you presume against the cleare words of the holy Ghost continually naming the fire of hell and threatning the wicked with it to allegorize the Scriptures at your pleasure and in stead of fire which God hath ordained and armed as a most dreadfull meanes to take vengeance of sinne you suppose a certaine paine which God with his immediate hand will inflict on the soules of the damned and that you make the substance of hell paines and fasten it to the soule of Christ for the time before he could worke our redemption or suffer the punishment of our sinnes But sir Discourser this is rather dreaming then debating of matters of faith to allegorize whatsoeuer standeth in your way and in stead thereof to imagine what you please without either proofe or pretence out of the word of God as if your mouth were the rule of Religion or the trueth of God would vanish by your fantasticall figures and shadowes Wherefore leaue your deuising and auouching what best liketh your vnquiet humour in so weightie matters of mans Redemption and tye your tongue if not your heart to the wordes of the holy Ghost that at least you may beare the shew if not the sense of a Christian man For I vtterly denie that God is either the immediate tormentour of soules in hell which is your idle and absurd imagination or that with his immediate hand God did torment the soule of his Sonne at any time here on earth as the soules of the damned are tormented in hell which is your witlesse and wicked assertion For proofe you produce the words of â—…say affirming of Christ that the Lord layed vpon him the punishment of vs all but in this as your maner is you hit neither the words nor the meaning of the Prophet The word is HAAVAH to be crooked or to go aâ—…rie and so by translation signifieth the crookednesse oâ—… wickednesse of mans life which the Prophet testifieth was layd vpon Christ in saying the Lord layd vpon him the iniquitie of vs all But grant it may sometimes by the ioyning of other words import anie punishment allotted to wickednesse doth the Prophet say that God layed all the punishment due to sinne vpon Christ or that God layed it vpon the soule of Christ both which you inferre out of the Prophets words though neither be there expressed or thence to be concluded S. Peter will tell you on what part of Christ God layd our sinnes euen on his bodie Himselfe bare our sinnes saith Peter in his bodie on the tree Now where Christ did beare them there God did lay them Christ bare them in his bodie as Peter affirmeth God therefore layd our sinnes on his bodie that by suffering death on the Crosse which was the wages of sinne Christ might make the purgation of our sinnes in his owne person Againe the sense which you would sowe to the Prophets words that God layd vpon him all our punishment that is as you would haue it all the punishment which we should haue suffered is false and wicked For so Christ must haue suffered reiection desperation and eternall damnation which the damned doe suffer and we should haue suffered had we not beene redeemed If you meane no more than the Scripture intendeth that what Christ suffered for vs in the bodie of his flesh on the Crosse was the full redemption and satisfaction for all our sinnes then are you wide from concluding out of these words that Christ suffered the paines of hell or the full vengeance due to our sinne by the immediate hand of God which is the chiefe point that you aime at This is all the proofe you offer out of the Scriptures for the immediate suffering of the soule of Christ from the hand of God and what sturdie stuffe this is the rudest reader that lighteth on your pamphlet of Defence will soone conceiue If you keepe this course in the rest of your positions the world will soone be wearie of your new-found fansies if
terrible cracks of that flaming fire to haue their eyes blinded with the bitter smoke of that fuming gulfe to be drowned in the deepe lake of Gehenna and to be torne eternally with most greedie wormes to thinke on these things and many such like is a sure way to renounce all vice and refraine all allurements of the flesh Apparently then the fire of hell by the confession of all these ancient aud Christian writers is locall as kept vnder the earth externall as inclosing the damned both men and diuels and sensible to the eyes with obscure flames tormenting all the parts of the body with an horrible paine of burning but not consuming them And that the fire of hell shal be an externall and true fire what proofe can be fairer or fuller than that Scriptures and Fathers with one voice professe that Christ shall come to iudge the world in flaming fire which shall melt the elements with heat and dissolue the heauens and threfore without question must needs be a true substantiall externall fire and that the same fire with which he shall come to iudge shall deuoure his aduersaries Behold sayth Esay the Lord will come with fire that he may render his indignation with the flame of fire for the Lord will iudge with fire There shall goe a fire before him when he commeth to iudge sayth Dauid and burne vp his enemies roâ—…nd about The Lord Iesus sayth Paul shall shew himselfe from heauen in flaming fire rendring vengeance to them that know not God and obey not the Gospel For to such remaineth no sacrifice for sin but a fearefull expectation of iudgement and a violence of fire which shall deuoure the aduersaries Fire sayth Arnobius shall go before Christ comming to iudgement euen fire which shall performe two offices with one and the same aspect it shall lighten the friends and inflame the enemies of God for the fire which shall burne the sinfull shal be made brightnesse to the iust The end of this present world saith Iustine Martyr is the iudgement of the wicked by fire as the scriptures of the Prophets Apostlesdeclare and likewise thâ—… writings of Sibylle so blessed Clemens that liued with the Apostles in his Epistle to the Corinths affirmeth Christ shall come sayth Ambrose with his heauenly army and with fire as his minister to giue vengeance â—…or the sire of iudgement shall serue him to reuenge the reprobate sayth Gregorie Paul sheweth sayth Theodoret that iudgement shal be full of terror noting first the Iudge comming from heauen then their power which minister vnto him who are the angels lastly thâ—… kinde of punishment for the wicked shall be deliuered to the flame of fire There are two properties in fire to burne and to shine the shining propertie the assembly of Saints shall enioy by the other shall wicked men be punished So Basil There are two forces in fire one to burne the other to shine the sharpnesse of â—…ire which punisheth is layed vp for those that deserue burning the light and shining thereof is allotted to the ioy of the blessed And Athanasius Fire hath two forces the one of shining which shall be giuen to the iust the other of burning which shall be diuided to sinners Ierom likewise Fire shal be light to the faithfull and punish the vnbeleeuers And Theophylact Christs comming shall be in flaming fire as Dauid professeth of him A fire shall goe before him and shall burne his enemies round about For this fire shall offer burning to sinners and no shining but to the iust it shall giue light and shining and no heat or burning The fire I trust which hath these two properties to lighten the iust and torment the wicked is an externall and sensible fire and with that fire Christ shall come to dissolue the heauens melt the elements and punish the wicked neither shall the spirituall and internall paine of the soule which the Discourser maketh his hell fire come neere the Saints or be ioyous and comfortable to any as the fire of iudgement shal be to the saints of God Then all sorts of writers Prophets Euangelists Apostles and Diuines of all ages Yea Philosophers Poets and Sibyls haue taught the wicked shall â—…e punished with true fire and not with metaphores and the Sonne of God in person hath confirmed the same and all sectes Iewes Pagans and Christians haue beleeued it God taking speciall care as well by deeds as words that the truth and terror of his vengeance vpon sinne should not be vnknowen to all the world For which cause he hath not only made the earth in many places as Aetna Vesuuis and else where to burne with perpetuall fire but hath often destroyed sinfull persons and places with fire from heauen to let all men see and know that the vengeance decreed threatned and executed on the wicked is sensible and true fire from God which he hath made of all senseles creatures the most violent potent and fearefull meanes to punish Therefore did he raine fire and brimstone vpon Sodome and Gomorre when their sinnes were at full punished the people that murmured at him with fire calling the name of the place THABHERAH because the fire of the Lord burnt amongst them as likewise he sent Firie serpents to bite them when they spake against him So Fire came out from the Lord and consumed the two hundred and fiftie men of Corahs company that presumed to offer incence vnto the Lord as before it had destroyed Nadab and Abihu for offering strange fire before the Lord. And at Eliahs word Fire came downe from heauen twice and deuoured two Captaines with their two bands of an hundred men Insomuch that when Satan would haue Iob beleeue he was punished by Gods owne hand he gate fire to fall from heauen vpon Iobs sheepe and seruants the messenger making this report The fire of God is fallen from heauen and hath burnt vp thy sheepe and seruants and deuoured them Which kind of vengeance Iames and Iohn the Disciples of Christ desired when their master was repelled by the Samaritans and denyed lodging as willing to haue that inhumanitie punished to the example of all others but that they were repressed by him who came to saue and not to destroy Thus hath God often by true and sensible fire from heauen declared and verified the certaintie of his generall and finall iudgement when his Sonne shall appeare in flaming fire to render vengeance to all that know not God and obey not the Gospell and that fire of Iudgement which shall burne heauen and earth shall shine to the Saints with ioy and comfort and punish the wicked by tormenting them for euer This you thinke is not against you for you deny that Now there is corporall fire in hell whatsoeuer there shall be hereafter when bodies also shal be there vnited and tormented with the soules and this
and abhorre the vncleanesse of our sinne and in his iustice would pursue it to witnesse his vâ—…ter dislike and detestation thereof yeâ—… for so much as Christ himselfe was holy and vndefiled euen in his humane nature and did not thrust himselfe into this action but was called and annointed by God to this honor which God would yeelde to none but to his onely Sonne and this readines of the Sonne to lâ—…ke and obey his fathers counsell and decree and to pitie our miserie by laying our burden on his owne shoulders was in it selfe so glorious to God and gratious towards man that it could not bâ—… but most meritorious and acceptable to God the Author and accomplisher of mans Redemption by this meanes what cause could Christ haue to doubt of his fathers loue towards him or of his fathers approuing and accepting his office and seruice tending wholy to the perfourming of Gods will and aduauncing of Gods glorie But God was angrie with our sinnes though not with his sonne and that Anger Christ must beare before we could be freed from it The more Angrie God was with our sinnes the more contented he was with the person of his Sonne and euery part thereof that submitted himselfe to the purpose and pleasure of God to appease his wrath kindled against our offences And that Anger Christ did vndertake to quench by satisfiyng the iustice of God in such sort as seemed best to God himselfe and not by frustrating or declining it nor by suffering the substance of the same destruction and damnation which was due to vs. Yea this very point of Christs obedience and patience enduring and so vpholding Gods iustice according to Gods owne will respecting who he was that in this wise submitted and emptied him selfe was farre more contenting and pleasing to God then if the whole world had beene condemned for sinne to hell fire For God delighteth not in the destruction of the wicked but in the obedience of his Sonne he tooke infinite delight not reuenging him with rage as an enemie but imposing a fatherly correction on him for our sinnes which in his person could extend no farder that is to none other kinde of death and in ours would haue beene the eternall destruction of body and soule Wherefore the wisedome and goodnesse of God chose out the person of his owne Sonne purposely that neither our sinnes might be remitted as trifles skant prouoking his Anger nor his Iustice meete with such as no way deserued to be respected or spared but that the burden of our sinnes might be translated from vs who were vnworthy of all fauour and lye vpon the shoulders of his owne Sonne whom in all iustice he must and did most highly loue and tender and therefore could award no farder or other punishment against him for our sinnes then might stand with the moderation and affection of a father and try the obedience and submission of a sonne Sharpe was the chasticement of our peace on that part of our Sauiour which was capable of paine and smart least God should seeme to dally with our sinnes but not such as either exceeded his strength or any way chaunged or called in question Gods fauour towards him And so our Sauiour conceaued and resolued of all his sufferings that by Gods iustice they must haue in them griefe and anguish very painfull and offensiue to his humane nature because our sinnes were very lothsome and displeasing to Gods diuine nature yet so that nothing should be laid on him which might ouerwhelme or endanger his obedience or patience and that Gods purpose in so doing was to abolish sinne and abate his wrath his iustice being thus satisfied in the person of Christ Iesus and not to execute on his owne Sonne the fulnes of that vengeance which was prepared for sinne in men and Angels And where the Discourser prateth so much of Gods VERY wrath and PROPER vengeance for sinne to be executed on the bodie and soule of Christ if he meane the very same wrath and vengeance which is prepared for deuils and shall be executed on all the damned he openly blasphemeth For then must the Sonne of God be euerlastingly adiudged to hell fire as they are If hee flie to the substance and essence thereof he foolishly cauâ—…lleth or vainely seeketh to shift his hands of open impietie For if by substance and essence of hell fire prouided for sinne he meane only a sharpe and extreame paine then by this childish sophistrie an headach or toothach a fit of an ague or pang of the stone if the paine be sharpe are in substance and essence all one and the very same which the damned now suffer in hell since he is no way able to prooue that God is the immediate tormentor of soules in hell But thus to mocke and delude the dreadfull Iudgements of God against sinne and to play with the person of Christ in so waightie matters of our saluation is fitter for Pagans then Christians and well this Discourser may multiply the miste of his words but he shall neuer be able thence to derâ—…e any light of trueth If he meane the very same paine in soule or bodie which the damned suffer he runneth headlong into that impietie which he would seeme to shun For the bodies of the damned suffer hell fire which Christs did not and their Soules apprehend that God is their enemie and not onely hateth them but hath reiected accursed and condemned them for euer which to imagine of Christs soule is to charge him with plaine Infidelitie and Apostasie Christ therefoâ—…e rightly conceaued of his sufferings and knew God to be a gracious and louing father euen to his manhood though such was the constant course of Gods iustice to which Christ submitted himselfe that the price of our sinnes might not â—…e easie in the person of our Sauiour to make vs the more warie how to prouoke Gods iustice hereafter and to acknowledge our selues the more bound to him who with his no small smart redeemed vs and withall to ratifie the fearefull vengeance of God powred on the wicked to be most iust when as the exchange of our sinnes was so grieuous to the vndefiled and welbeloued manhood of the Sonne of God Since then God could no way be displeased with the nature office or action of Christ in offering himselfe a ransome for man which God himselfe first decreed before all worlds promised by his Prophers published by his Angels testified by signes and wonders and confirmed with his owne voyce from heauen and the sufferings of Christ were tempered with Gods loue proportioned to Christs strength supported with â—…oy accepted with fauour and rewardâ—…d with all honor in him and in vs for his sake what wound could this chastisement make in the depth of Christs soule when it was executed on his body or what could the soule of Christ conceaue more then that God was in deâ—…de angrie wâ—…th our sinnes and therefore would not accept our persons being in
which are nothing like nor neare the paines of hell For example in harty and true repentance how great is the griefe and paine of euery part and facultie of the soule detesting and abhorring sinne and fearing and feeling the power of Gods wrath and yet I trust ech penitent person doth not suffer the paines of hell Feare griefe and sorrow then the soule of Christ might deepely tast when he suffered for sinne and yet be farre from the paines of hell But your collection from my words is more absurd for where I say the soule of Christ might suffer for sinne yet by no meanes could it receiue the same wages of sinne which we should haue receiued you inferre not only without any words of mine but directlv against my words ergo I meane or I ought to meane that the soule and mind of Christ suffered the paines of hell from the immediate hand of God and so where I auouch Christ by no meanes could suffer the same wages of sin which we should haue suffered you paraphrase Imeane or I ought to meane Christ suffered the selfe same which we should haue suffered and of my negatiues you make affirmatiues and then tell the Reader I contradict my selfe But in plaine termes I allow in Christ all those afflictions and passions of the Soule which naturally and necessarily follow paine and this ALL reacheth vnto moe then meere bodily paines it includeth the soules proper and immediate paines also Where you learned to reason I doe not know but you haue the best grace to disgrace your selfe that euer I saw and if this be all the learning you haue you may clout shoes with this Al. Doe the torments of hell naturally and necessarily follow paine then whosoeuer in any part or for any cause is payned suffereth the paines of hell or at least the soules proper and immediate paines which you make extreamest and sharpest in hell Babes and boyes may thus bable it is a shame for men to talke so much out of square Let my words stand simplely as you bring them and allow in Christ all those afflictions and passions of the soule which naturally and necessarily follow paine what conclude you out of them your sight is very sharpe if you see any absurditie in them Howbeit you draw my words from their right course and sense by leauing out what pleaseth you My words are When the auncient fathers affirme that Christ dyed for vs the death of the body only we must not like children imagine they exclude the vnion operation or passion of the soule but in the death of his body and shedding of his blood they include all those afflictions and passions of the soule which naturally and necessarily follow paine and accompany death Christ suffering for vs a painefull death how could it be otherwise but such afflictions â—…nd passions of the soule as naturally and necessarily follow paine and accompâ—…ny deâ—…th should be found in the soule of Christ vnlesse we giue him an insensible flesh or impassiole soule both which are errors in the nature of Christ His flesh waâ—… sensible and his soule passible as ours is because they both were humane Paiâ—… then and death in my words are plainly referred to the body of Christ whose â—…lesh could not be wounded and blood shed as his was but naturally and necâ—…ssarily his â—…le must feele the paine thereof And yet if my words wâ—…e not limited to the paine of Châ—…sts body as indeed they are I see no inconueniencâ—… growing from them nor helpe for your fansie coÌ„tained in them Yet plaiâ—…er as fauoâ—…g your error I say 〈◊〉 paine griefe of body or mind be it neuer so great will commend Christs obedieâ—…ce patience And the punishment of sinne which proceedeth from the iusâ—…ice of God and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that Christ might and did beare Yea he suffered death with all painfâ—…â—…ut no sinfull 〈◊〉 or â—…onsequents How good a sempsteâ—… you are doth well appeaâ—… by your short cuâ—…ing and â—…ide 〈◊〉 â—…hing my words together The first sentence you take our of a Section of my 〈◊〉 wherein I purposely shew that not only the paines of hell but euen the feare oâ—… 〈◊〉 must â—…e farre from the soule of Christ. The suffering of hell paines in the soule of Christ I there refuse as not consâ—…t to the Christian 〈◊〉 but 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to the 〈◊〉 â—…ertaintie sanctâ—…ie of Christs person 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 with God Immediatly after the words which you bring I say 〈◊〉 Christ there could beâ—… no apprehension of hâ—…ll paines as due to him or determiâ—… for him but â—…e mâ—…st 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 â—…are that God would be inconstant or vâ—…st which are more then 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Yea to these very words which you 〈◊〉 I â—…oyne this exception in the same 〈◊〉 but the sense of damnation or separatâ—…n from God or the feare or doubt thereof in Chrâ—…t as they quench faith and abolish grace so they dissolue the vnion and commuâ—…on of â—…ath 〈◊〉 natures or else breed a false persuasion and sinfull temptation in the soule of Christ. Who can be so sottish as not to see that my former words import Smart 〈◊〉 and gâ—…fe of body and mind which haue in them neither senâ—…e nor seare of hell paines that is of damnation or separation from God since no man is damned but vnto the pâ—…ines and place of hell and is first separated from God Wâ—…th as great discretion you fasten on an other sentence of mine where though 〈◊〉 â—…position be not generall but indefinite and hath two restraints euen from your 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to wit in this liâ—…e where Christ suffeâ—…ed in â—… like to vs who aâ—… his 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 you throw off all forgetting what your selâ—…e obiected and whereto I 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 â—…nswere and suppose that here I fully concurre with your conâ—…ites But 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 your owne obiection and that will rightly guide my solution Your reason which you proudly boasted could not be refuâ—…ed by the wiâ—… of man â—…as as you call 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 from the lesâ—…e to the more Thus doe the members of Chriâ—… 〈◊〉 the terrors 〈◊〉 God and sorrowes of hâ—…ll therefore of necessitie Christ suffered the likâ—… Pâ—…ooue you by this Aâ—…gument that Christ aâ—…ter this life suffered the terrors of God and sorrowes of hell I doe you wrong to â—…pect it for it is open impietie so to thinke or say Then do you more wrong to imagine that I extended my words farther then to refell your reason As you spake of this life though you expressed it not so I replied that the puâ—…shment 〈◊〉 sâ—…nne which proceedeth from the iustice of God in this life and is no sinne Christ might and did beare but in no wiâ—…e those terrors and feares of consciâ—…nce which procâ—… from sinne and aâ—…gment sinne Now I pray you what allowance finde you here for your new erected hell or how force you my words to fit your deuises Terror of conscience and feare of hell could haue no
place in Christ by reason they proceede in 〈◊〉 from râ—…morle of sinne weaknesse of faith and doubt for the time of Gods fauour which we cannot ascribe to Christ without drawing him into the dregges of our sinne And therefore when we compare his suffering with ours we must alwayes except the rootes and branches of our corruption for that they be taintes of sinne and wants of gâ—…ace neither of which may be admitted in the soule of Christ. Now if I exclude the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and terrour of conscience from the person of Christ in the same sentence which you quote how should my words sound in your eares as if I admitted the true paines of hell to be suffered in the soule of Christ which I haue often said the wicked doe not suffer in this life muchlesse Christs members whence you fet your patâ—…e for Christs sufferings least of all Christ himselfe on whom that vengeance by no iustice could be inflicted The mortall bodies of men and their fraile life are by no meanes capable of those terrible iudgements of God against sinne reserued for another world and howsoeuer your errour leadeth you to aduenture the making of a new hell my resolution is euery where occurrent in my Sermons that no iustice of God could award against his owne Sonne the same paines which the damned in hell doe suffer if we measure their paines by the Scriptures and not by your fansies besides that the members of Christ are not subiected in this life to those torments of hell which the reprobate in an other place doe and shall endure There is no condemnation to them that are in Christ Iesus How then should the Lord Iesus himselfe not onely feare which I there denie but also suffer the same condemnation to hell paines which the wicked and accursed doe and shall suffer We say not Christ suffered simply all the paines of the damned he felt not such as are by their very nature sinnes as well as paines as indeede desperation is â—… When God offereth grace and mercie as in this world he doth to many to renounce or refuse is a damnable sinne but in hell where there is no promise nor possibilitie of either there to despaire is no sinne yea rather there to hope that Gods irreuocable iudgement shal be altered and his setled counsell changed were to hope that God will be false of his word and wauering in his will which indeede is a mightie sinne And therefore neither reiection confusion destruction desperation nor damnation are sinnes in hell but the iust and fearefull punishments of sinne ordained by Gods iustice and inflicted by Gods power who there requireth no obedience but onely executeth vengeance the suffering whereof is not sinnefull though it be neuer so painefull to the damned abiding for euer in the pollution and confusion of their sinnes here committed So that if my Lordship as you call it doe stand to my words and not clippe them nor renounce them your Patriark ship gaineth little by them for your purpose For I by no meanes acknowledge that the true paines of hell are inflicted on any in this life and by no iustice could the Sonne of God be damned to suffer hell paines either in substance or in circumstance as the Scriptures describe them And therefore your vaunting before the victorie depending onely on the foolish mistaking or peeuish peruerting of my words is as â—…idieulous as it is vaine-glorious All you can get is this that if you can be suffered to wrest my wordes from their coherence and sense without respecting what goeth in the same Section before them or what is ioyned in the same sentence with them and then interlace them with other wordes of your owne seruing your turne when mine doe not you can picke out two or three lines in the whole booke that thus abused and corrupted shall sound somewhat towards the secrets of your phantasticall hell By which arte of yours you make me say in one section that the iustice of God both temporally and eternally punisheth the soule ONLY by the bodie and in the next section you say I grant that Christ did beare punishment of sinne AS GREAT AS ANY IS proceeding from the iustice of God yet being no sinne and so with adding ONLY to my wordes in the first place and as GREAT AS ANY IS in the second you haue made some shew of contradiction in my positions or at least in your additions Thus much for the examination and refutation of those maine diuisions and positions which the Discourser hath laid for the foundation of his cause in his generall opening of the Question and likewise for the clearing of those contradictions which he falsely supposed to be in my writings Wherein if I would haue taken the trade which he doth I could with farre more breuitie and facilitie haue denied all that he affirmeth and ballanced my no to be euery way as good as his yea but for their sakes that cannot discusse those things themselues I haue not refused more largely and fully to expresse and proue the trueth in ech of those points which he catcheth hold of in defence of his errour and thereby haue giuen the Reader to vnderstand that this Discoursers new doctrine is as wide from the veritie as from the authoritie of holy Scripture There remain the particular challenges such as they are which this impugner maketh to many parts points of my Sermons and of my conclusion annexed to them as also his defence of those speciall reasons published in his first Treatise which I refuted as farre as needed in the conclusion afore mentioned In which I meane to spend no more time then necessitie forceth me but to referre the Reader to the places where the things are purposely handled except some new matter not fully debated be offered vnto me by reason whereof I may sometimes be drawen to make larger proofe of some things shortly but truely before vttered by me and ignorantly if not peruersely mistaken by him To the Discoursers chalenge that I forced my Text by mistaking the crosse of Christ for Christs personall sufferings on the Crosse where Paul meaneth the afflictions of Christes members in this world I made in the conclusion of my Sermons a tripartite answere 1. That the Crosse of Christ did alwayes in the Scriptures import the personall sufferings of Christ on the Crosse and neuer the afflictions of the godly 2. That the circumstances of the Text conuinced no lesse which were Pauls earnest renouncing of all ioy saue in the Crosse of Christ and his vehement opposing himselfe to those that ioyned circumcision to the Crosse of Christ least they should suffer persecution for it at the hands of the Iewes 3 That the best and most ancient Fathers Ierom Chrysostome Austen and others expounded these words precisely of Christs death on the Crosse. To this what replieth our Controuller The crosse of Christ here signifieth I grant Christ crucified not in his owne
person onely but also in his members Then first you be slipt from your former resolutio deliuered in your Treatise which is no strange thing in your writings There your words were I take it to be cleare the Apostle HERE SPEAKETH NOT of the personall sufferings of Christ but of the godly You there denie that Paul speaketh of Christs personall sufferings but of the godly Here you affirme hee speaketh of both and least you should seeme to diuide them you adde Paul doth here ioyntly together vnderstand by Christs crosse the afflictions of the whole mysticall bodie both head and members A large and long Crosse of Christ that conteineth not onely his owne death and passion and whatsoeuer persecution he suffered in his life time but ioyntly together all the asflictions of the godly from the beginning of the world to the end I will not aske you where you find or how you proue Christs crosse to be so vsed in the Scriptures you that take vpon you to frame new Redemptions new hels and new heauens to your fansie will not sticke to frame a new Crosse of Christ without any Scripture howbeit know this all wise will beware of such expositions as haue neither example nor ground in the word of God For though our Sauiour sometimes said If any will come after me let him denie himselfe and take vp his Crosse and follow me yet he neuer said let him take vp my Crosse and follow mee and Paul who often vseth the word Crosse without addition many times the Crosse of Christ neuer taketh it in all his Epistles for the afflictions of the godly but onely for the spitefull and shamefull death which Christ in his owne person suffered on the Crosse. So that howsoeuer euery Christian may be said to take or beare his Crosse the Scriptures no where apply the Crosse of Christ but only to the force and fruit of Christes death suffered on the Crosse for vs and our saluation which is the sense that I affirme Saint Paul here intended But the markes afflictions and DYING OF THE LORD IESVS are vsed in this and other places of the Scripture to signifie the afflictions of the godly Those places haue speciall wordes adioyned which can not bee referred to the person of Christ but must of force belong to the speaker or sufferer As I beare IN MY BODY the markes of the Lord Iesus saith Paul and againe I fulfill the rest of the afflictions of Christ IN MY FLESH And so we beare about IN OUR BODIE the dying of the Lord Iesus Where these words in my bodie and in my flesh are proper to the speaker and no way deriueable to the person of Christ. Wherefore the markes afflictions and dying of the Lord must either import a resemblance to the personall sufferings of Christ or demonstrate the cause for which the Apostle suffered which was for Christs sake and in this is no difficultie to suffer affliction in like manner as Christ did or to suffer it for Christs cause But the Crosse of Christ whereof the Apostle speaketh in my Text was that at which the Iewes were so greatly offended for which the true preachers were so sharpely persecuted to which the false teachers ioyned circumcision for the better attayning of saluation in which the godly most reioyced and by which the faithfull were crucified to the world and the world to them and all these are proper to the personall death and crosse of Christ as he was the Sauiour of the world and not common to the afflictions of the Saints It was a question of doctrine not of manners for which the Apostle so much striued and the highest point of mans redemption not of mans perfection in which he so much gloried For touching other mens miseries how should Paul reioyce in them or how should he by them be crucified to the world and the world to him He had good cause to reioyce in the death of Christ though it were neuer so much maligned and pursued by the Iewes because it was the wisedome and power of God to saue all that beleeued and in his owne troubles for Christes quarrell hee might reioyce as hauing thereby fellowship with Christs afflictions and made conformable to his death but to reioyce at other mens troubles that hath no warrant in the word of God Reioyce saith Paul with them that reioyce and weepe with them that weepe Wee may take comfort and giue God thankes that the faithfull haue grace to endure persecution with patience and courage but that affliction befalleth them we may not be glad For that is to reioyce at other mens harmes which is repugnant to the rule of charitie Neither could Paul be crucified to the world by other mens troubles long before dead or then vnborne examples might encourage the weake but Paul was strong and proposed himselfe as a paterne of patience suffering persecution And therefore this haling into the Crosse of Christ the afflictions of all the godly that euer were or shall be as if the Apostle so highly reioyced in them and were crucified to the world by them is wholy against the haire and hath neither dependence nor coherence with the Apostles words Besides you doe not or will not vnderstand the maine point here in question betwixt the Apostle and those false teachers of the Iewes whom he reprooueth and refuteth in this Epistle You say indeede It is manifest the Apostle here Gala. 6. v. 12. reprooueth the false teachers for mingling the pure doctrine because they were loth to taste persecution but you neither tell vs what the Gospell was which they thus mingled with circumcision nor why they feared persecution nor from whom which things if you would haue specified as the Scriptures deliuer them you should soone haue perceiued how properly the Apostle addeth for the Crosse of Christ and how rightly I referred these words to the force and fruite of Christs death which is the summe and substance of the Gospell What the Gospel was which Paul preached appeareth plainly by his owne words We preach saith he Christ crucified vnto the Iewes a scandall or offence and vnto the Grecians foolishnesse but vnto them which are called both of the Iewes and Greekes Christ the power of God and wisedome of God to saue all that beleeue For Christ is made of God to vs righteousnesse redemption and sanctification to the end That he which reioyceth might reioyce in the Lord. In so much that I esteemed not to know any thing among you sayth Paul saue Iesus Christ and him crucified So that Christ crucified the Crosse of Christ the preaching of the Crosse and the Gospell of Iesu Christ are phrases of like force vsed by Paul for one and the selfe same word of trueth which is the doctrine of our saluation by the death and blood of Christ. Christ sent me saith he to preach THE GOSPEL not with wisedome of words least
respect as they are bodily things represent the soule of Christ or any matter pertaining to it In that respect as they are bodily things without any sacred action or passion they figure neither bodie nor soule of Christ nor are indeed any figures at all But you speake of sacrifices of beasts which can not beare that name in the Scriptures without some sacred action and passion ordeined by God to praefigure the sacrifice of his Sonne And where euery thing which was appointed of God to foreshew the comming and dying of his Sonne was a figure of him not in respect of any bodily matter or forme for so all things of that kinde should naturally haue beene figures of Christ and not by gods appointment which is most absurd and false but in regard of some holie rare or beneficiall action passion or propertie authorized by God to represent the power and vertue of Christ appearing in our flesh you like a deepe Diuine seuer from those sacrifices all sacred actions and passions ordained by God to make them both sacrifices and figures and then tell vs that in respect of their earthly and bodily substance they were no figures of Christes soule When you sayd Sacrifices you included those sacred actions and passions which made them sacrifices and figures of Christes sacrifice and therefore to exclude them againe with an idle respect is a silly and emptie refuge If vnder bodily things you comprise externall and sensible actions and passions then is it euident that by sensible signes in those Sacrifices God did alwayes and altogether declare the ioynt sufferings of Christ for the sinnes of the world but not the paines of hell nor the death of the soule from which you alwayes and altogether slide vnder pretence of my grosse vttering it though I vtter it in the selfe-same words and parts which the Scripture doth But how considerate are you when you vouch that the Scape-goat representeth not Christes soule vnlesse onely in respect of the escaping of it when the other goat died yet not the body of the holocaust but the vtter consuming by sire of the whole signifieth the sufferings of whole Christ What agreement hath ESCAPING with VTTER CONSVMING and yet you make both these actions to be figures of the sufferings of Christes soule So that Christes soule by your refined figures did escape free from death and not escape free from death for you defend that Christ died the death of the soule and was vtterly consumed and could not be consumed but as it were escaped and yet escaped not and was at it were vtterly consumed and yet could no way be consumed but escaped free and vntouched as the Scape-goat did Such is your settlednesse that yea and no with you are as it were all one That fire did signifie the incorruption of Christes flesh after death is very hard and farre fetcht Sacrifices had their respect to Christes death not to any thing further or afterwards All things are farre fetcht with you that come not from the whirlepoole of your owne head It is the iudgement of S. Austen and other learned Fathers which you so lightly esteeme The same substance of the bodie shall be changed into an heauenly qualitie quod ignis in sacrificio significabat velut absorbens mortem in victoriam which fire in sacrifice signified as it were swallowing vp death in victorie Whom Bede disdaineth not to follow Ignis in sacrificio id significabat velut absorbens mortem in victoriam Fire in sacrifice did signifie victorie euen swallowing vp death Cyril is of the same minde Agreeably to the sacrifices did heauenly fire consume all things that were done by our Sauiour in the bodie and restored them all neerer to the nature of his Diuinitie for rising from the dead he ascended to heauen his passage to which place the nature of fire doth shew To farder sufferings after Christes death no sacrifice had respect because there neither were any nor needed any but to the efficacie and glorie consequent to Christes death the fire in sacrifices had respect as these Fathers affirme Against whom though you euery where oppose the worm-eaten warrant of your owne words I trust you will somewhat relent to the Apostles authoritie who telleth you that the high Priests going intâ—… the most holy place with the blood of the sacrifice once euery yeere signified Christes entring the heauens with his owne blood which I hope was after both his death and his resurrection As for an other sense out of Austen that it should signifie our perfection and burning charitie it can not be true for the holocaust-sacrifice out of question primarily signified the person of Christ not ours Also you both here do seeme to double vnderstanding by the holocaust both incorruption after death and a perfect burning loue in vs now in this life which things are farre distant and can not stand together You are so giddie that you dislike euerie thing and so hastie that you conceiue nothing right S. Austen sayth indeed that fire in the holocaust may note the feruent â—…esse of charitie and brightnesse of immortalitie which are all one with perfection and incorruption What fault finde you with this The holocaust you say signified primarily the person of Christ not ours Doth S. Austen denie that It suffâ—…ceth for the trueth of his wordes that those sacrifices did principally point out Christes sufferings grace and glorie and consequently ours For as we haue fellowship with his afflictions and are conformed vnto his death so shall we be partakers of his perfection and incorruption and be fashioned to his image 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 If we suffer as he did sayth Paul that we may be glorified as he was not presuming an equalitie with him but promising a conformitie to him The Sacrifices then which as you grant primarily signified the person passion and perfection of Christ did secondly note and teach our dying to sinne our rising againe in glorie and appearing before him in perfect holinesse which in this life we endeuour but can not attaine to the full till by death we be freed from sinne The bearing of Christs Image is enough to iustifie Saint Austens speech For he neither saith that the holocaust did primarily signifie the members of Christ nor that men could haue perfection of charitie in this life but when Christ shall present vs righteous and glorious vnto his Father then shall he offer vs as holocausts vnto God And yet in the meane while what hindereth Saint Austen to exhort vs that the Diuine fire of Gods wisedome and grace may wholy inflame vs and euen consume vs Who but a moth of your mould would giue Saint Austen the lâ—…e twice in two lines for so speaking and in the third line after charge him with doubling as if Christs puritie in this life and glorie after this life could not stand together or the perfection of Gods Saints here such as
life of all And that this is most perfect charitie I will cite our Sauiour himselfe for a witnesse where he saith greater loue hath no man then to lay downe his soule for his friends By all this Christ teacheth his Disciples to be so farre from shunning daungers and troubles for the saluation of men that the death of the flesh must not be refused for euen to that doth charitie stretch Fulgentius an other of the Fathers on whom you would faine fasten your error of Christs redeeming our soules by the death of his soule and our bodies by the death of his body not only noteth when and how Christ laid downe his soule for vs but why that phrase is applyed to Christs death and to all theirs that die willingly for loue not necessarily vpon constraint The whole man Christ laid downe his soule when his soule departed his flesh dying on the crosse And so againe Christ dying in the flesh laid downe his Soule and shewing the difference betwixt deliuering the body to death and giuing or laying downe the soule He saith Where loue is not the body is said to be deliuered but not the soule to be laid downe as the vessell of election plainly testifieth If I giue my body to be burnt and haue no loue it auayleth me nothing Here Paule declareth that without loue the body may be yeelded but not the soule laid downe For where he purposeth to signifie the purenesse of his loue he thus writeth to the Thessalonians Our goodwill was to bestow on you not onely the Gospell of God but euen our owne soules and to proue this an effect of his loue he addeth because yee were deare vnto vs. So that it is proued by manifest witnesse of Scripture that there wanteth loue where the body onely is layed downe to death but there is charitie where the soule is laid downe together with the body Beda Ponere ergo animam mori est Sic Apostolus Petrus Domino dixit animam pro te ponam id est pro te moriar carne To lay downe the Soule is to die So the Apostle Peter said to Christ I will lay downe my Soule for thee that is I will die in the flesh for thee A good sheepeheard saith Christ layeth downe his soule for his sheepe He did that he taught he performed that he commaunded he laid downe his Soule for his sheepe and shewed vs a way to contemne death which we must follow and a paterne after which we must be Printed which is first to extend our outward works of mercie towards his sheepe then if neede be to offer our death for them The later writers are all of the same mind and expound those words of our Sauiour the Sonne of man came to serue and to giue his soule a ransome for many and I lay downe my soule for my sheepe to haue none other sense then that he would die for vs as the Fathers before them did expound the same Erasmus in his paraphrase expressing our Sauiours meaning in both places saith in the person of Christ Therefore I came euen to serue the welfare of all in so much that I thinke it no burden to giue my life by the losse of one soule to redeeme many And againe Therefore my Father loueth me singularly as his Sonne because of mine owne accord I bestowed my life for the safetie of my Fathers flocke Bullinger likewise in the person of our Sauiour I came to serue the good of all and that which is farre greater I came into this world to giue my life for sinners And so I yeeld my selfe to death and euen to the death of the crosse that my sheepe beleeuing in me may liue by my death And alleadging and relying on Saint Austens words on the same place he addeth out of Austen To lay downe the soule is to die So Peter the Apostle said to his Master I will lay downe my soule for thee that is I will die for thee Attribute this to the flesh for when the soule goeth out of the flesh and the flesh remaineth without a soule then is a man said to lay downe his soule What saith the Euangelist Christ bowing his head gaue vp the Ghost this is to lay downe the soule Musculus Christ declareth what his ministerie is euen to redeeme mortall men and the chiefest degree of this ministerie is that he would giue his soule for them Then are we redeemed by the onely begotten Sonne of God and that dearely euen with his owne death For the Lord of heauen and earth humbled himselfe vnto death and that vnto a most shamefull death What was more vile or more abiect in the world then the death of the crosse And in the person of Christ Therefore my Father loueth me because I lay downe my soule that is because I die for my sheepe Caluine vpon those words of Christ I came to giue my soule a Redemption for many Therefore Christ mentioneth his death that he might withdraw his Disciples from a peruerse imagination of an earthly kingdome In the meane time the force and fruite of his death is aptly and rightly expressed whiles he affirmeth his life to be the price of our Redemption Whence it followeth that the price of our reconciliation with God is no where found but in the death of Christ and so It is no maruaile that Christ affirmeth himselfe to be therefore loued of his Father because he esteemeth our saluation dearer then his owne life He would by this arme his Disciples least seeing him soone after to be caried to death they should faint in hart as if he were oppressed by his enimies but rather acknowledge it to be the wonderfull prouidence of God that he should die to redeeme the flocke Gualter Christ saith he came to giue his soule to be the price of Redemption for many This passeth all offices that men may yeeld one to another For as him selfe saith no man hath greater loue then this to giue his soule for his friends But he vouchsafeth to die for his enimies And dying for vs he bestowed life on vs because his death was a ransome sufficient for the sinnes of the world And so A good sheepeheard saith Christ layeth downe his soule for his sheepe b As if he should haue said who can deny him to be a good sheepeheard that so much loueth his sheepe as not to refuse to redeeme their safetie with the losse of his owne life And because the Sonne of God hath exposed or yeelded his life for vs who can doubt but he hath satisfied abundantly for vs Vitus Theodorus Christ saith the sonne of man came to minister and to giue his life for the Redemption of all That surely is the chiefest and truest loue and seruice when a man serueth his enimies with body and life And likewise in the person of Christ. I alone am the good
be deliuered into the hands of men and they shall kill him And againe The Sonne of man shall be deliuered to be crucified and immediately before his apprehension Behold the houre is come the Sonne of man is deliuered into the hands of sinners This deliuering of Christ into the hands of men to be crucified was the not sparing him which the Apostle meant and was that for saking which Christ testified on the Crosse as Tertullian thinketh Filium dereliquit dum hominem eius tradit in mortem Hoc Apostolus sensit scribens si pater Filio non pepercit Sic reliquit dum non parcit sic reliquit dum tradit Ceterum non reliquit pater filium in cuius manibus Filius spiritum suum posuit Denique posuit statim obijt Spiritu enim manente in carne caro omnino mori non potest Ita relinqui á patre mori fuit filio God left or forsooke his Sonne as Christ complained on the Crosse whiles he deliuered his humane nature vnto death This the Apostle meant when he wrote if God spared not his Sonne So God left him whiles he spared him not so God left him whiles he deliuered him Otherwise the Father forsooke not the Sonne into whose hands the Sonne commended his spirit He laide it downe and presently died For while the spirit abideth in the flesh the flesh can not die at all Then to bee left of the Father was as much in the Sonne as to die Here are Tertullians words in order as they stand Where first he maketh the Sonne to die when hee laide downe his soule into his Fathers hands This death by which the soule of Christ departed from his body was that deliuering that not sparing which Paul meant and that forsaking which Christ spake of on the crosse What finde you here for the paines of Hell or for the proper sufferings of the soule You may peruert any mans words if you will but of them selues these are very coherent and euident In Ambrose you finde more hold He saith Minus contulerat mihi nisimeum suscepisset affectum Christ had done lesse for me if hee had not beene altogether affected as I should haue beene Though you be no good concluder yet are you a notable translatour For you can turne the English not onely cleane from but quite against the Latine Where Ambrose saith Christ had done lesse for mee if taking my nature vnto him hee had not also taken my naturall affection vnto him as feare sorrow and such like you misconster affection for punishment and mine that is naturally mine for that which I should haue suffered in hell and adding the word altogether of your owne you make Ambrose say that Christ was altogether affected that is punished in soule as I should haue beene in hell if I had not bene redeemed But by what Grammar doth affectus signifie hell paines Feare griefe and sorrow are naturall affections in all men and passions of the soule they signifie not in their owne nature the torments of the damned How shall we know this to bee Ambrose meaning Hee that hath but halfe an eye may see by that whole Chapter the roote of this sorrow to bee the infirmitie of our nature in Christ and the cause thereof to be his compassion and pitie had of vs and for vs. The next words to those which you bring are Ergo pro me doluit qui pro se nihil habuit quod doleret And presently taedio meae infirmitatis afficitur Christ therefore sorrowed for me who had nothing in him selfe for which he should sorrow he is affected with the tediousnesse of my infirmitie The tediousnesse of our infirmitie affected him not the torments of hell suffered in his owne soule Neque speciem incarnationis suscepit sed veritatem Debuit ergo dolorem suscipere vt vinceret tristitiam non excluderet Christ tooke vpon him not the shew but the trueth of our flesh Hee was therefore to feele griefe as a consequent to our nature that he might ouercome sorrow and not exclude it Tristis est non ipse sed anima Suscepit enim animam meam suscepit corpus meum Anima obnoxia passionibus Christ was sorrowfull not in person but in soule For he tooke vnto him my soule and my body Now the soule it is that is subiect to passions Is hell with you of late become a naturall infirmitie and affection that wheresoeuer you reade either of these words you streight inferre the paines of hell The causes of Christes sorrow will put all out of doubt and are plainely recited by Ambrose in the ende of this Chapter though stifly reiected by you because they sort not with your conceits Tristis videbatur tristis erat non pro sua passione sed pro nostra dispersione Christ seemed sorrowfull and indeede was sorrowfull not for his owne suffering but for our dispersing You say Christs sorrow was for the suffering of hell paines in his soule Ambrose saith in expresse words Christ sorrowed not for his owne suffering which of you twaine shall wee thinke best vnderstoode Ambrose meaning him selfe or you Christ sorowed saith Ambrose for our dispersion he sorrowed because he left vs orphanes he sorrowed for his persecutors All these occasions of sorrow in Christ at the time of his passion mentioned by Ambrose you vtterly disauerre and in spite of Ambrose teeth you will haue the infirmitie and affection of mans nature in Christ to signifie hell Yet Ierom shall helpe at a neede who saith That which we should haue borne for our sinnes the same Christ suffered for vs. You might haue done well to haue put quicquid for quod as one of your fellowes hath done alleaging this place that where Ierom would not say Christ suffered for vs whatsoeuer we should haue suffered your selues may speake it in his name Neither is it so strange a thing with you to translate all for some In the very next Page before citing Ambrose words hoc in se obtulit Christus quod induit Christ offered that in him selfe which he tooke of vs you render it Christ offered in sacrifice ALL that which he assumed which translation is euidently false whatsoeuer the illation be This place of Ierom I haue already answered in the conclusion of my Sermons and but that the booke happely will not alwaies be at hand I would spend no moe words therein The particular can not hurt me if it be simply graunted and the generall is not affirmed by Ierom. Howbeit Ierom in plaine speech presently expresseth what he ment Christ suffered for vs. By this saith he it is manifest that as Christs body whipt and torne bare the printes of the stripes and wrongs so his soule truely sorrowed for vs. What neede we any other exposition then his owne that Christ suffered for vs smart of body and griefe of minde which were due to vs in this world
where Christ suffered for vs besides the torments of the next world where Christ neither did nor could suffer any thing Cyprians words are far weaker for your purpose wider fro your matter He saith Christ was called sinne and a curse pro similitudine poenae non culpae for the likenesse of punishment not of fault LIKE is farre lesse then the same If therefore Christs punishment were but like there is no necessitie it should be the same Againe when Cyprian nameth the likenesse of our punishment suffered by Christ on the crosse he meaneth the punishment of sinne that God inflicted on Adam and all his of-spring in this life where Christ suffered for vs as sorrow shame reproch paine and death which were the punishments that God laid on Adams transgression in this life The death of the Soule Adam pulled on him selfe by sinning that Christ suffered not the other God inflicted with his owne mouth and by them accursed and punished sinne in this world reseruing his terrible and eternall iudgements which are the paines of hell to an other time and place when the bodies of the wicked should be altered and abled to endure those intolerable and euerlasting torments threatned but not executed in this world The first kind of punishment due to all men in this life for sinne Cyprian saw and knew full well and by the Scriptures found that to be in Christ on the Crosse the paines of hell Cyprian knew not much lesse could he be sure that Christ suffered them since no such thing is mentioned in the Scriptures Let then the Reader iudge whether Cyprian were likely to speake of that which he knew and read or rashly to pronounce that to be like which he neither knew nor read But if Cyprian bee the fittest man to declare his owne meaning Cyprian euen in that place speaketh directly against your supposed paines of hell suffered in the soule of Christ on the Crosse. Admiror te cruci inter damnatos affixum iam nec tristem nec pauidum sed suppliciorum victorem eleuatis manibus triumphantem de Amelec I admire thee ô Lord being once fastned to the Crosse amidst the condemned theeues to bee now neither sorrowfull nor fearefull but despising the punishments laid on thee with thine hands lifted vp to triumph ouer Amelec the enemies of Gods people If Christ once fastned to the Crosse had neither sorrow nor feare but a neglect of his paines and a ioyfull triumph ouer all his foes I trust hee felt not the paines of hell which were very easie if they brought with them neither sorrow nor feare but rather contempt and triumph Christ feared before in the garden you will say and for feare or paine did sweate bloud That Cyprian remembreth and explaineth wherein you shall see the difference betwixt his iudgement and yours of Christs sufferings Thou diddest Lord saith he professe before thine Apostles thy selfe to be sorrowfull vnto death and for exceeding griefe didst power foorth a bloudie sweate Hearing this in the gospel I was vtterly abashed For who will not feare if be feare whom all things feare His answere I wil set downe in Latine though it will be the longer as well to let the Reader heare Cyprians resolution in his owne words which many will desire and to discharge my selfe from all quarels of mistranslating whiles I sometimes seeke to make that plaine to the simple which in the text is more darke and obscure as for diuers other respects which I will after mention when Cyprians minde is fully knowen His words are Sed metus ille infirmitatis humanae communem exprimebat affectum generalitatem omnium in carne viuentium hoc dolore vrgeri dissolutionem corporeae spiritualisque naturae hac molestia non posse carere hanc poenam vniuersae successioni Adam sine exceptione impositam vt difficultas extremi transit us timeretur Hanc nemo anxietatem euasit nemo egrediente anima sine amaritudine expirauit But that feare of thine o Lord did expresse the common affection of mans infirmitie and the generall state of all liuing in the flesh to be pressed with this sorrow and that the separation of body and soule can not be free from this griefe but this punishment is laide on all Adams posteritie without exception that the difficultie of departing this life should be feared this wofulnesse no man euer escaped neither did euer any man breath out his soule without bitternesse Here you may learne first whence Ambrose who was a great follower of Cyprian tooke his words of humane infirmitie and affection and what hee meant by them Secondly that this is a punishment which you denie laide by God himselfe on all mankinde to feare and feele death separating the soule from the body Thirdly from this was no man euer exempted but euen Christ himselfe though he were free from that necessitie yet would hee be partaker of this our infirmitie Fourthly that where on the crosse Christ neither feared nor sorrowed but shewed him selfe terrible to his persecutors and a conquerour of all their malice and a triumpher ouer all their iniuries yet to his Disciples in the garden hee opened his affection incident to our nature thereby to confirme himselfe to bee a true man by his taking as well our infirmities as our flesh Lastly out of Cyprian in that Sermon you may learne that to Christ the sight of God his Father could not bee formidable that it was his Fathers will the sacrifice of his flesh should begin with feare and sorrow that hee sorrowed to heale our weaknesse and feared to make vs secure by repressing those infirmities in his owne person to cure them in vs for euer after All these and many moe good lessons you cleane ouerslip in Cyprian and broching a new doctrine quite contrarie to his you lay violent hands on one poore word in that whole treatie which yet maketh nothing for you and as though you had performed a worthy worke grossely to mistake the like for the same you muster Cyprian as a maintainer of your new made hell Say as Fulgentius saith and wee aske no more Quicquid fuit infirmitatis animae sine peccato suscepit pertulit Christ tooke vpon him and suffered whatsoeuer infirmitie may bee in the soule without sinne I hope you will your selfe accept the condition which you offer to others and I require no more But what is there in these words on which you so stoutly stand and so confidently crake that helpeth your deuice forward Grant them absolutely and what conclude you The griefe of hell paines suffered from the immediate hand of God is an infirmitie of the soule you must say if you will say any thing towards the matter you haue in hand But who euer said so that knew his left hand from his right What passing dulnesse and surpassing drowsinesse is this to make the suffering of hell paines from the immediate hand of
saith of their sinnes as he doth of their death that God turneth them and all things else to the good of those that loue him Touching Gods fatherly Anger against the sinnes of the faithfull for their amendment which Musculus mentioneth He doth not say as you doe it is no Anger neither doe I defend any other kinde of Anger in God then such as a Religious and wise Father in some sort resembleth when he persueth the wickednes of his vnruly sonne Whose person though he fauour as being his Sonne and by chastisement seeke to reforme yet is he or ought he to be not in words or lookes onely but inwardly and truely displeased and offended with the lewdnesse of his Sonne And though loue doe temper the correction that he meane not to kill or ouerthrow his owne flesh and blood yet the zealous Father spareth not to make his Sonne throughly smart till he confesse mislike and leaue his former loosenesse and frame himselfe obediently to his Fathers will Doth not this Father as much hate the vices as he loueth the person and seeketh the welfare of his Sonne And since his Sonne will not be otherwise recalled may not the sharp correction which the Father vseth to represse the vnbridled and vntamed appetites of his licentious child be called punishment The Scriptures so speake and so doe the Fathers as also the later writers onely this fabler hath found out a new faith and new phrases of Gods improper wrath and vntrue punishment of sinne which God vseth toward his children that prouoke him with their impuritie and iniquitie It may not be said properly that Gods Iustice leadeth him to inflict these things on vs as you affirme but his holinesse and loue Your mouth belike is the measure of proper speeches If you intend that not onely Iustice but also Loue did and doth lead God to inflict these things on vs you say the same that I affirme but if you meane as you must if you will crosse my position that Loue without Iustice did and doth lead God to inflict these things on vs then speake you both absurdly and wickedly For the Scriptures ascribe Iustice and Iudgement to God in chastening his Church and punishing the sinnes of his seruants as well as they doe Loue and holinesse When the Prophet told Roboham and the Princes of Iuda that they had left God and therefore God would leaue them in the hands of Shishak the King of Egypt the King and Princes humbled themselues and said the Lord is iust When Ierusalem was burnt and her people caried captiue to Babilon the Prophet lamenting her miserie saith the Lord hath afflicted her for the multitude of her transgressions and teacheth her to say Iust is the Lord for I haue rebelled against his mouth Daniel at the time when God would deliuer his people from that Captiuitie maketh confession of his and their sinnes and saith All Israell haue transgressed thy law and departed from hearkning to thy voice Therefore the curse is powred vpon vs because we haue sinned against him And the Lord hath watched ouer this euill and brought it vpon vs because the Lord our God is iust in all that he doth for we would not heare his voice The Leuites after their returne making confession of their sinnes vnto God mentioning their afflictions doe adde And thou Lord are iust in all that is come vpon vs because thou hast kep t thy truth and we haue done wickedly The Apostles confesse the like after Christs comming If our iniquitie saith Paul commend the Iustice of God what shall we say Is God vniust in punishing God forbid Very plainly the same Apostle denounceth Gods iustice and vengeance to all Christians that wrong their brethren You know saith he what Commandements we gaue you by the Lord Iesus that no man oppresse or defraud his brother for the Lord is the Auenger of all such things as we foretold and protested vnto you And to the Colossians He that doth wrong shall receaue at Gods hand for the wrong which he hath done and there is no respect of persons The recompence of a mans hands that is works shall God giue vnto him either in this life if he repent or in the next if he persist Lo saith Salomon the righteous are repayed on earth he meaneth the euill which they haue done to others how then the wicked and the sinner For here in this life is the time that iudgement beginneth at the house of God If it first begin with vs saith Peter what shall be the end of them who obey not the Gospell of God Howsoeuer you tattle that God vtterly forgetteth his Iustice in afflicting his Church the Scriptures teach vs that Iudgement beginneth here at the house of God for an example of the iust iudgement of God against the wicked and that the very righteous are repayed on earth the wrongs which they do to others God by his Apostle openly professing himselfe to be the Auenger of such beleeuers as wrong or defraud their brethren Now whether there may be Iudgement Requitall and Reuenge in this life from God against euill without some admixture of his iustice though he purpose not to destroy the penitent I leaue it to the Christian Reader to consider Hath not Christ then borne the burden of our sinnes to free vs from all punishment Christ hath not presently and generally freed vs and euery part of vs from all corruption and affliction of sinne he will doe it at his appointed time when the day of our redemption commeth In the meane time our inward man is freed though our outward man dayly perish For Christ must raigne till he haue put all his and our enemies vnder his feete The last enemie that shall be destroyed is death Then shall be the end of sinne death and corruption in all his and not before though we be alreadie redeemed by Christ from it in Gods purpose and promise which shall then bee fully performed and in part whereof we presently haue an assurance in that our soules are renewed in this life by grace and receiued in the next to a blessed rest and comfort till that day rise when Christ will set a crowne of righteousnesse on them all that loue his comming Againe we are presently freed from all that which is solely the punishment of sinne and hath no farder or other profit or vse in it then onely to punish and reuenge sinne And such are none of these things whereof wee speake For God in them all hath so tempered a taste of his iustice with his manifold and great mercies that it is not expedient for vs as yet to be wholly freed from them This respect preuaileth so farre with God that whiles the world must dure hee hath subiected his children to the capitall and penall lawes not of Christian Magistrates onely but euen of infidels also for that without discipline
Our Sauiour knew no more waies when he said to Peter Flesh and blood hath not reuealed it vnto thee but my Father which is in Heauen Where men that are teachers or learners are called flesh and blood because without the Body the Soule learneth nothing in this life but what is reuealed vnto it by the spirit of God Saint Iohn knew as few That saith he which we haue seene and heard declare we vnto you that you also may haue fellowship with vs. This a man would thinke were plaine enough that all knowledge must be either naturally infused in vs as it was in Angels or collected of vs by sense and experience or reuealed to vs from God For if we be borne voide of all knowledge as the Scripture expresly testifieth we know not at first our right hand from our left then must we get it by meanes And meanes to come by the knowledge of particular and externall things what can you assigne besides the sense If therefore the Heathen saw this and you see it not you prooue your selfe to haue lesse vnderstanding then the Heathen The Soule indeede by the power of vnderstanding and reason wherewith she is endued of God doth in continuance obserue discerne and compare the agreements and contrarieties of things as also their causes and consequents and what of her selfe she can not perceaue she learneth with more ease of others who are longer and better acquainted therewith and whose phantasiue spirits are thinner and quicker to pearce into the depth of things The differences then and defects of mens wits doe cleerele witnesse that not onely the instruments of sense but the Imaginatiue spirits must concurre to attaine and encrease knowledge in this life vnlesse God inspire the Hart aboue nature which he doth when and where pleaseth him These may be the meanes of thinking and yet not the causes or occasions of mis-thinking The naturall meanes of thinking must still be the meanes of well and ill thinking they varie not howsoeuer the minde varie in her resolutions What or how manie may be the causes or occasions of ill thoughts maketh nothing to this question it sufficeth for my purpose to make the bodie liable to the punishment of euery sinne that the parts powers or spirits of the Body haue any communion with the suggesting admitting or performing of ech sinne For in all sinne not onely the Doers but the leaders directors aduisers helpers consenters allowers and reioycers are in their degree partners with the principall Yea all the instruments are iustly detested where the crime is worthily condemned But whence ill thinking commeth can you tell A man may thinke and speake of all the errors and heresies in the world and yet not sinne It is the liking and embracing of them that maketh the offence and not thinking or reasoning of them The will then causeth thoughts to be good or euill the vnderstanding doth not Now the will must haue somewhat to lead it which is either the show of truth or the loue of some other thing which doth preiudice the truth There is no truth but in the word of God which we must either heare or read before we can apprehend If we stop our eares against the word of God shall not that wilfull deafenesse of ours turne to the deserued destruction of Body and Soule If we open our eares but not our harts to the voice of God doth not the loue of some earthly good or feare of some temporall harme close our harts against the truth Both which as well loue as feare come from the bodily senses and affections and make their manifest impression on the hart leading the will to consent to their law For where all ill thoughts are against veritie charitie or temperance men are ledde from the truth by commoditie glory soueraigntie or credulitie as Austen obserueth whereto if we put ease enuie and luxurie we see the causes of all ill thoughts which haue no place in the Soule apart from the Body The proper prouocations and pleasures of sinne are often times not outward at all but the mâ—…ere peruersitie and malignitie of our euill mind is vsually the very cause of ill thoughts and ill determinations You would say some what if you could tell how Doth any thing properly prouoke it selfe Doth the fire prouoke it selfe to burne or the Sunne prouoke him selfe to shine Lamenesse maketh a creeple to halt it prouoketh him not And so doth pitch defile the hands and not prouoke them to fowlenesse The next and necessarie causes of things are called efficients and not provocations So that will you nill you prouocations are externall either to the person or to the part that is the principall or speciall Agent The Apostle teacheth you how to vse the word properly when he saith 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 prouoking one an other The very composition of the word proueth as much 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 or prouocare is first to call or vrge a man to any thing before he him selfe be willing Then the naturall and inward corruption of the minde is no prouocation but the cause efâ—…cient of ill thoughts and if there be any prouocations they must be externall to the part or partie prouoked And did you know the principles of learning or grounds of nature you would soone perceaue that as well the will of man as his desire is led with respect of somewhat that is good or at least seemeth good which prouoketh and draweth both sense and will to performe her actions Now though the desire Antecedent and delight consequent be inward and inherent yet the good things which we affect and would attaine are then externall when we pursue them and when we vse them or enioy them they are but conioyned with vs in possession or opinion which contenteth both Body and Soule As you do not vnderstand what PROVOCATION meaneth so do you lesse perccaue what PLEASVRE is You mingle Soule and sense head and heeles together to make some shew of opposition but in the end you bewray your presumptuous ignorance and daube it ouer with your wonted words of PROPER MEERE which are as much to this purpose as salt to make sugar The PROPER prouocations and pleasures of sinne are often times you say not outward at all I vsed not the word outward but sayd the soule tooke from the bodie all PROVOCATIONS and PLEASVRES of sinne brought to effect and committed all ACTS of sinne by her bodie you neither marke the restraint which I made in the beginning of that section of all sinnes brought to effect neither see the words following in the same sentence which expresse as much the acts of sinne committed but rouing quite from the matter you â—…arle at my words without iudgement or memorie For as you fumble about prouocations so do you about pleasure which you would make to be meerely spirituall But notwithstanding your toying with termes that is properly PLEASVRE which the soule
your friends and your selfe to consider But you farder inferre That which commeth out of man defileth man ergo the Body sinned not at all no not in grosse facts except as an Instrument This is figuratiue Logicke to make the consequent cleane contrarie to the Antecedent Out of our Sauiours words that which commeth out of man defileth man it rightly followeth that sinne comming from the hart defileth man to wit the whole man and so both Body and Soule For man is not this or that part of man but the person composed of both Who then besides you vpon these words of Christ that murders adulteries thefts lyes and slaunders defile a man would conclude that these defile not the Body or else though they defile the Body yet that sinneth not as if Christ spake here of any pollution but of sinne The Body you say sinneth not except as an Instrument How the Body sinneth we neede not discusse so long as it is cleere by our Sauiours voice that the sinne of the hart defileth the Body as well as the Soule that is the whole man more I doe not affirme not require And so much doe euill thoughts no lesse then euill deeds by the position of our Sauiour euen they defile the man as well as adulteries thefts murders and such like Your admitting at last the Body to be an Instrument of sinne doth rather strengthen then weaken mine Assertion For since the Body is no dead but a liuing instrument and so capable of pleasure in sinne as also of paine in punishment it iustifieth my Collection that sinne is common both to Body and Soule and the satisfaction for sinne must likewise be common to both But yet as I obserued the ancient Fathers haue in this Question comprised in the name of the Body the powers of life and sense permixed with the Body as also the sensitiue desires and affections which sometimes obey and sometimes rebell against the mind and these in man are not onely capable of sinne but the causes of sinne and in that respect the Body with his sensitiue powers and desires is more then an Instrument That which you adde of boâ—…ly infirmities letting the operation of the Soule as in Lethargies Apoplexies sleepe frensie c. Peraduenture then it thinketh and considereth more freely in it selfe and by it selfe then when the Body setteth it on worke otherwise aâ—… other times To let the simpler sort see that the Soule doth not sinne in her vnderstanding and will without coniunction with her Body and some concurrence of her Body I specified three or foure cases open to all mens eyes as sleepe frensies Lethargies Apoplexies which are often so strong that they leaue in man no vse of sense reason memorie nor will whereby he may or doth sinne To this you answere Peraduenture the Soule then considereth more freely in it selfe and by it selfe then when the Body setteth it on worke A Resolution without peraduenture agreeable to the rest of your Doctrines that men depriued of their senses wits and memories perhaps perceiue more iudge righter and remember better then when they were indued with all three Surely if madnesse with you may be sobrietie if Lethargie may be memorie if the ouerwhelming of sense reason and remembrance as in strong Apoplexies may be the encreasing of them you shall doe well to professe this new Phisicke with your new Diuinitie that it may shew the perfection of your puritie Many such Conclusions will driue vs to thinke that your considerations are wiser when you sleepe then when you wake If this conceite be true you were best perswade men to runne out of their wits or to desire and procure Lethargies and Apoplexies as much as they can that their Soules may be then more considerate What it pleaseth God sometime to reueale or shew to men in sleepes and traunces we are not to meddle with they are things to vs vnknowen the naturall and ordinarie course of vnderstanding and remembring appointed by God for men is that which we reason of and that is often so stopped and hindred by sicknesse or violence that neither reason memorie nor will can rightly performe their functions Which is so well knowne not onely to Philosophers and Phisitians acknowledging strong Lethargies and Apoplexies to be the decay and sometimes the ouerthrow of reason and memorie but vnto Diuines that with one consent they grant men oppressed with violent furie or naturall follie not alwayes to sinne in their actions no not of murder adulterie theft and blasphemie for want of iudgement and memorie to direct their willes But how commeth this sudden change in you now to confesse that the bodie setteth the soule a worke in her thoughts or considerations good or badde who not ten lâ—…nes before vtterly denied that the bodie sinned at all no not in grosse facts otherwise then as an instrument Doth the axe set the hewer on worke or the saw the drawer or the penne the writer The Agent moueth the Instrument the Instrument setteth not the Agent on worke And if the bodie setteth the soule on worke I hope it is to do euill as well as good vnlesse you will defend that from the bodie commeth nothing but that which is good Why then if the bodie set the soule on worke when we are waking and well aduiâ—…ed shal not the bodie haue communion in sinne with the soule which is the verie point you here impugne and yet here you acknowledge before you be ware It can neuer be proued that the soule in those accidents and infirmities vtterly ceaâ—…h operaâ—… and câ—…n doe nothing If it could not what is that to this purpose The operation of the soule is so hindered by them that often it doth not sinne and that is sufficient to prooue all sinne to be common to soule and bodie which is our queâ—…n Let the soule pâ—…incipally and properly sinne if in the soule you comprise all the powers of reason sense and life which proceed from the soule and the bodie be only her instrument yet so long as the soule can not actually sinne except the bodie haue lâ—…fe and sense it is euident that in sinne the bodie must concurre with the soule Now if we adioyne life and sense to the bodie which is the subiect of both though the cause of neither as the learned and ancient Fathers doe and the Scriptures likewise when they speake of the temptation and rebellion of the bodie and the members therof conteining no more in the soule of man then the will and vnderstanding which they call the minde or the inward man then apparently the bodie is not only the instrument or occasion of sinne by his desires and pleasures but the first and last sâ—…at of corruption in this life and the continuall Agent and Atturney for sinne and Satan during thâ—…s life insomuch that infecting and subiecting the soule to the lusts of the flesh it maketh the soule be called flesh which she can not be in substance but
the English Translation to be openly reade in the Church confirmeth not the Marginall appositions which may not be read in the Church though they may be receiued so farre as they haue manifest coherence with the Text or consequence from the Text in respect rather of their veritie then Authoritie For these notes at first were not affixed and in sundry editions they haue been altered increased as the Corrector liked euen this note which you alleage somewhat differeth from the Geneuian notes whence this and the most of the rest were taken The words of the Geneuian edition vpon this place are these The word Agonie signifieth that horror that Christ had conceaued not onely for feare of death but of his Fathers Iudgement and wrath against sinne The Printer of the great English Bible or his Corrector ouer against those words of the Text he was in an Agonie setteth this obseruation in the Margine He felt the horror of Gods wrath and iudgement against sinne I refuse not those words as if they gainsaid the Doctrine which I defend but I see no farder ground in them then ghesse when they ayme at the cause of Christs Agonie which the Scripture suppresseth Howbeit let the words stand in their full strength though by no meanes I acknowledge either Authentike or publike Authoritie in them they rather euert then support your opinion The vttermost here ascribed to Christ is HORROR that is a shaking or trembling feare of Gods Iudgement and wrath against sinne which all the godly finde in them selues when they enter into the serious cogitation of Gods holinesse displeased and his Iustice prouoked with their sinnes but this is farre from the death or paines of the damned except you make the vengeance of the Reprobate all one with the repentance of the faithfull This therefore is like the rest of your proofes no way tending to your purpose The feare of Gods wrath against sinne which is common to all the godly in this life though not at all times hath no fellowship with the feare of the Reprobate much lesse with the torments of the damned The one is a religious and godly sorrow for sinne which worketh saluation and yet agniseth with feare and trembling the iustnesse and greatnesse of Gods wrath against sinne the other is the beholding of the terrible and eternall destruction of Body and Soule prepared for them without all hope of ease or end In Christ there might be a double cause of this horror conceaued or felt by him as affections are felt in the Nature of Man the one touching vs the other touching himselfe Christ might tremble and shake at the terror of Gods Iudgement prouided for vs which was euerlasting damnation of Body and Soule in hell fire and the more tenderly he loued vs the greater was his horror to see this hang ouer our heads euen as we naturally tremble to see the desperate daungers of our dearest friends present before our eyes And if Paul said truely of him selfe we knowing the terror of the Lord meaning the terror of the Lords Iudgement against sinne how much more then did the Sauiour of the world know the same the cleare beholding of which might iustly worke in him a manifest horror to teach vs to take heede of that terrible Iudgement at the sight whereof for our sakes he did tremble in the daies of his flesh An other cause of that horror might concerne himselfe For since the wrath and Iudgement of God against our sinne was so terrible to behold that Christ in his humane nature trembled at it how could it but raise an horror in him to know that he must presently receiue in his owne Body the burthen thereof and make satisfaction therefore with his owne smart which how farre it would pearce his patience the weakenes of our flesh in him might well feare and tremble though his spirit were neuer so resolute and ready to endure the most that mans nature in this life could sustaine with obedience and confidence So that either the sight of Gods wrath against sinne due to vs or the satisfaction of the same which Christ was to make might vrge his humane nature to that feare and trembling for the time which these notes obserue and yet neither of these come neere the feare of the wicked or paines of the damned Besides that religious horror and feare is nothing lesse then the paines of hell inflicted on the Soule by the immediate hand of God which is the deuice that you seeke to establish Thus my Text of Scripture is also iustified that Christ gaue himselfe the price of Redemption for vs WHICH ELS VVE SHOVLD HAVE PAYD If wresting adding and altering may be called iustifying then is your sense of that text iustified indeed otherwise there is nothing yet alleadged that any way approueth that meaning of the text which you would inforce The price of our redemption Christ payd not the same which els we should haue payd had we not beene redeemed for so Christ must haue suffered euerlasting damnation of bodie and soule which was the payment exacted of vs but he payd a PRICE for vs that more contented his displeased Father than our euerlasting destruction could haue done You dallie therefore with the doubtfulnesse of the word PAYD which sometimes signifieth the enduring of punishment sometimes the yeelding of recompence The Price of our sinnes which we should haue payd that is the punishment of our sinnes which we should haue susteined was eternall destruction of bodie and soule in hell fire and other payment we could make none This payment due to vs or punishment which we should haue payd the person of Christ could not suffer it is most horrible blasphemy so to speake or thinke but he payd a price for vs that is a SATISFACTION and AMENDS for our sinnes which by no meanes we were able to pay And so much the word ANTILYTRON noteth euen a Price Recompence or Ransome in exchange of the punishment or imprisonment which the captiue should suffer This Price you will say was himselfe I make no doubt that Christ gaue himselfe to die but NOT TO BE DAMNED for our sinnes as we should haue beene Neither can the common custome of redeeming captiues inferre any more than the giuing of a price for the Prisoner And therefore I did iustly aske Who told you that the Scripture here speaketh after the common vse of redeeming Captiues taken in warre And where you answere the nature of the word ANTILYTRON importeth so much which is properly vsed in such cases you vndestand neither the nature of the word neither the maner of our redemption rightly For first the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 whence Antilytron commeth properly signifieth a mutuall redemption of ech other as Aristotle obserueth and so we should redeeme Christ as he redeemed vs. Wherefore the word is heere improperly taken and signifieth no more than LYTRON without composition Againe the common vse of
to see him die as likewise his buriall by his owne followers the sealing of his Tumbe and his lying three daiâ—…s in the graue to omit I say all these things with silence and to produce a word which the Manichees reiected as odious and iniurious to Christ and the Christians defended none otherwise then as common to all men that die both good and bad were no small ouersight in so learned a writer But this is a â—…ite of yours to shift of the truth of his answere it is no part of his meaning He sheweth against the Manichees and likewise against you since you defend the Contrarie that the death of the Body is in all men the punishment of sinne and that this death INFLICTED ON MANS NATVRE for sinne which is the MORTALITIE OF OVR FLESH by the Scriptures is called a Sinne and a Curse euen in Christ not that Christ was properly and truly accursed with God as transgressours are which is your erroneous assertion but that he submitted himselfe to receiue the punishment of sinne in his owne person by the death of his Body which was common to him with all men If the former words of Saint Austen were not plaine enough he hath playner If thou deny Christ was accursed deny Christ was dead If thou deny he was dead now â—…ightest thou not against Moses but against the Apostles If thou confesse him to haue beene dead confesse that he tooke the punishment of our sinne without sinne Now when thou hearest the punishment of sinne beleeue it came either from Gods blessing or cursing If the punishment of sinne came from blessing wish alwaies to be vnder the punishment But if thou desire to be thence deliuered beleeue that by the iust Iudgement of God the punishment of sinne came from the curse Confesse then that Christ tooke a Curse for vs when thou confessest him to haue beene dead for vs Nec aliud significare voluisse Mosen cum diceret maledictus omnis qui in ligno pependâ—…rit nisi mortalis omnis moriens omnis qui in ligno pependerit and that Moses had none other meaning when he said Accursed is euery one that hangeth on a Tree then to say euery one that hangeth on a Tree is Mortall and dieth He might hauâ—… said Accursed is euery Mortall Man or accursed is euery one that dieth How thinke you would Austen prooue that Christ truely died because he was truely accursed or that Christ tooke vpon him a Curse because he tooke vpon him the death of the Bodie which is the punishment of sinne in all mortall men and so proceeded from the curse whereunto all men for sinne were subiect He doth not defend the Apostle by Moses but he expoundeth Moses by the Apostle and so resolueth in plaine words that Moses had none other meaning when he said accursed is euery one that hangeth on a Tree then if he had said accursed is euery mortall man because death came first on all men as a Curse for sinne You acknowledge not the death which all men die to be a punishment or Curse for sinne But all the wit you haue will not answere Saint Austens reasons For the death of the Body which is common to all mortall men must of force be a blessing or a Cursing If it be a blessing why doe we beleeue or hope to be free from a blessing but if we detest continuance vnder it and desire deliuerance from it then certainly the death of the Body in all men euen in the Saints of God was and still is a punishment and Curse of Sinne till Christ raise vs from it An other reason Saint Austen vrgeth to the same effect which is this Vnlesse God had hated sinne and our Death he would not haue sent his sonne to vndertake and abolish the same What maruaile then if that be accursed to God which God hateth God that is him selfe all life and gaue vs life as his blessing in this world must needs hate death which is priuation of life as repugnant to his Image and euerting the worke of his hands wherewith he ioyned Soule and Body to participate in life And though by his Iustice he inflicted death on all men for sinne yet of his mercie he sent his owne and PAINFVLL death to be that part of the curse which Christ suffered for vs. This I hope is more then shame though shame and reproch were not the least parts of Gods curse against sinne euen in Christ. You would needs in a brauado set vp your bristles and aske What nothing but the shame of the world will any man of common sense affirme that this was all the curse that Christ bare for vs I replied that shame and ignominie was an expresse part of the curse which Christ dying suffered for vs and that there was no cause you should so much disdaine Chrysostome and Austen for so saying The Scriptures themselues in that point concurred with them as I haue fully shewed in my Conclusion and you can not auoid it Lest therefore your Reader should take you to be tongue-tied you cleane change the case and would haue men beleeue that I defend and endeuoured to proue that shame was the whole curse which Christ endured As though I alleaged not S. Austen at large to proue that death in all men Christ not exempted was a part of the curse inflicted on mankinde for sinne And therefore when Chrysostome sayd the crosse is the onely kinde of death subiect to the curse I did not set him and Austen at variance as if the one did trippe the other but I thus reconciled them that not only death as in all men but the verâ—…e kinde of death which Christ died was accursed by the very words of the Law in Chrysostomes iudgement This then is one of your familiar trades and trueths to set downe that in my name which I neuer spake nor meant and so by lying when you can not by reasoning to support your cause Indeed if a man will admit your absurd and false positions so much is consequent out of their words For where you will not haue the death of the bodie to be any part of the curse inflicted on sinne except the death of the damned be coherent with it as in the reprobate it followeth from Chrysostomes words that the corporall death of Christ seuered from all other sorts of death had no part of Gods curse in it besides shame which yet is as farre from being a true curse where the cause is good as death it selfe since neither shame nor death are true and inward curses when they are suffered for righteousnesse but rather causes and increases of blessing not in nor of themselues but by Gods goodnesse accepting and recompensing them with all fauour and blisse Againe you mislike that I sayd Christs dying simplie as the godlie die may in no sort be called a Curse or accursed I mislike that you can not or
for the punishment of sinne though withall God meane to recall his owne from sinne So great is the constancie of Gods iustice that when SPIRITVALL and ETERNALL punishment is released to the penitent yet CORPORALL afflictions and torments with which we haue knowen many Martyrs to be exercised and lastly DEATH it selfe which our nature d sâ—…rued by siâ—… is remitted to none Quod â—…nim iusti homines piâ—… tamen exsoluunt ista supplicia de iâ—…sto Dei iudicio venire credendum est And that euen iust and godly men doe abide these punishments we must beleeue it to proceed from the iust iudgement of God S. Peter plainly sheweth that euen those vâ—…rie sufferings which the righteous endure pertainâ—… to the iudgement of God Neither was S. Auâ—…ten ignorant of Gods good purpose in afflicting his Saints but he therein auoucheth as I do that iustice is tempered with mercie Iustitiae pulchritudo est cum benignitatis gratia concordans vt quoniam bonorum inferiorum dulcedine decepti sumus amaritudine poenarum â—…rudiamur It is the beautie of Gods iustice conioyned with the grace of his clemencie that because we were deceiued with the sweetnesse of our inferiour pleasures we should be chastened with the bitternesse of punishments Which he specifieth in the bodie of man that the bodie of man which before sinne was in his kinde most excellent after sinne became weake and subâ—…cted to death though this were the iust reuenge of sinne yet it sheweth more of Gods mercie than of his seueritie Consult all your Consorts in this Realme and send for helpe beyond the seas as you did in making your Defence and you shall neuer be able to ouerthrow this position of S. Austens which is the verie point that at first I maintained And because you are so pert with the publike doctrine of this Realme looke not in your Catechisme prouided for boyes which yet you had need more exactly to learne but in the booke of Common prayer aduisedly considered of by the whole Clergie and confirmed by the full authoritie of Prince and Parliament to be vsed in all the Churches of this Realme and you shall there see the same confession made by the mouthes and hearts of all the godly in this land since the profession of true religion here eâ—…tablished The Church of England in her publike prayers to God where she may neither faulter nor dissemble thus maketh heâ—… humble but true petitions vnto God Lord we beseech thee that we which are iustly punished for our offences may be mâ—…rcifully delâ—…ered by thy goodnesse So againe God which knowest c. grant to vs the â—…e lâ—…h of bâ—…die and soule that alâ—… those things which we suffer for sinne by thy helpe mâ—… may well ouercome And amongst the prayers after the Letanie in time of dearth and famine Grant that the scarsitie and dearth WHICH VVE IVSTIY SVFFER FOR OVR INIQVITIE may through thy goodnesse be turned into cheapnesse and plentie And likewise there for faire weather We humbly beseech thee that although we for our iniquities haue worthily deserued this plague of raine and waters yet vpon our true repentance thou wilt send vs such weather whereby we may receiue the fruits of the earth in due season and learne both by thy punishment TO AMEND OVR â—…IVES and for thy clemencie to giue thee praise See you heere the faith and confession of the Church of England That we are iustly PVNISHED for our offences with externâ—…ll and temporall afflictions And by those punishments we should learne to repent and amend our liues that God of his goodnesse may release vs of the Plagues which we haue worthily dâ—…erued for our iniquities and iustly suffer for our sinnes Gods purpose is to amend vs you will say and not to punish vs. The Church of England â—…eleeueth that God doth both He doth punâ—…sh euen his owne for example of his iust iâ—…gement yet not to destruction as he doth the wicked but to repâ—…ntance that is to the acknowledging and amending our miâ—…deeds This you thinke is not properly punâ—…shment It is not properly vengeance because the measure is tolerable and the purpose is fauourable Only Christ you say suffered the whole proper punishment of our sinnes In Christ the measuâ—…e of puniâ—…hment was tolerable not exceeding his strength and patience and the purpose of God in punishing him was â—…arre more honourable to wit for the full satisfaâ—…tion of Gods iustice by the innocencie and dignitie of Christes person for the clensing and sauing our soules and bodies for the destâ—…oying of Saâ—…ans power and force by the rule of righteousnesse and for the exalting of Christes manhood to be the Lord in heauen and earth ouer quicke and dead So that punâ—…shment in the wicked is to deâ—…ruction in the godly to Correction and Eâ—…endation in Christ to satisfaction and humilâ—…ation before the glorie of Gods kingdome was layed on his shoulders You must remember your owne place of Aâ—…sten Malâ—…dictum est omne peccatum Thâ—… câ—…rse all sinne which is two sâ—…ld either that which we coâ—…mit against Gods laâ—… or els the very punishment of that sinne You should remember to vndeâ—…stand first S. Austâ—…ns Latine and then S. Austens meaning MALEDICTVM is not â—…eere a Substantiue as you mistake it but an Adiectâ—…e as appeareth by S. Austens vsing in this veâ—…y sentence but the line before the Masculine gender Maledictus to which this is ioyned with a Coniunction Copulatiue and his alâ—…ering the case with a Preposition the verie word before where he vseth the Substantiue for thus stand his words Hoc est enim mortuus est quod maledictus quoniam mors ipsa ex maledicto est maledictum est omne peccatum Dâ—…ad is all one with accursed because death commeth from the curse and aâ—…cursed is all sinne and not as you say The curse is all sinne The words next before contradict it for death which is the punishment of sinne S. Austen sayth proceedeth from the curse and by that concludeth it to be accursed but not the curse it selfe whence death commeth for that which commeth and that whence it commeth must be different Neâ—…ther doth S. Austen meane that the act of sinne committed by man is the curse of God since that must be â—…omewhat in God besides the punishment which proceedeth from God but sinne committed by man is hated and dâ—…tested by Gods holinesse and that hatred and reiection of sinne which is in God is the first curse of sinne And so S. Austen expoundeth hiâ—…selfe Quid ergo mirum si maledictum est Deo quod Deus odâ—… What maruell then if that be accursed to God which God hateth So that the hatred and detestation which God in his holinesse hath of sinne and of the person for sinne whereby his iustice decreeth vengeance on the sinner is the cursâ—… that is consequent to sinne and so the word EXECRABLE signifieth one detested hated and
purged that we might be made the righteousnesse of God in him by the remitting of all our sinnes and the restoring vs to the fauour of God and graunt these words that our sinnes were imputed to him that his righteousnesse might be imputed to vs which yet are not the Apostles words where is the proportion you so confidently speake of that as we are made his righteousnesse so he was made our sinne This comparison vnlimited it notorâ—…ously false and were it true it euerteth all your frame The full and euerlasting reward of his righteousnesse is allotted to vs. Was the wages of our sinnes so imposed on hiâ—… His righteousnesse is now imputed to vs because it shall be perfectly inherent in vs and is presently sealed vnto vs by the spirit of adoption whereby our harts are inherently sanctified Were our sinnes so imputed to him that they should afterward perfectly possesse him To vs God imputeth Christs righteousnesse without our consents and often without our knowledge as in children baptized Were out sinnes imputed to Christ without his vnderstanding or will In vs God hateth out sinnes and ioueth our persons for Christes sake To keepe this comparison will you say that God hated the righteousnesse of Christ and loued the sinne imputed to him for our sakes And were there not so many differences in the maner of Christes hauing our sinnes and our hauing his righteousnesse as there are yet are you no whit the nearer For as we no way deserue to be his righteousnesse so he no way deserued to be our sinne And though God forget all our sinnes and putteth them vtterly out of his sight when he washeth vs from them yet God did not wholly cast Christs righteousnesse out of his remembrance when he did punish him for our sinnes Christ therefore tooke our sinnes from vs and layed them on himselfe but he doth not take his righteousnesse from himselfe to giue it to vs but doth impart it to vs as hauing enough for himselfe and for vs because he is God as well as man So that all our sinnes were imputed to him to make vs iust yet all his righteousnesse is not imputed to vs to make him a finner as you would haue him but he bare the punishment of our sinnes which the Apostle calleth sinne that we might receiue the reward of his righteousnesse not in cogitation or computation only but in deed and execution For euen in this life where we aâ—…e continuall sinners we haue no righteousnesse but what is ioyned with the reall remission of our sinnes pardoned for Christes sake and with the grace of Gods spirit purifying our hearts by faith and inflaming them with the loue of Gods goodnesse and mercie towards vs. Our righteousnesse then in Christ hath more then imputation though imputation be also needfull it hath the seale of Gods spirit possessing our hearts and the inherent graces of faith and loue which God accepteth at our hands and thereby maketh vs partakers of Christes righteousnesse for that we beleeue in the name of his only Sonne Whereas you say the Fathers haue two good senses of the Apostles words Christ was made sinne for vs the one That God made Christ a sacrifice for sinne the other That God vsed him As he doth sinners what is there in both these which we acknowledge not Yea what is this later but the very same point which we vrge You admit both and yet vnderstand neither as you ought to doe If you acknowledge the death and bloud of Christ to be the true and onely sacrifice for sinne then must you acknowledge these three things in it that it was pleasing to God vndefiling the Priest and elensing the sinner If as well the oblation as the offerer were holie and acceptable to God why doe you defend that Christ was sinnefull and hatefull in his sufferings for sinne which was the sacrifice that he offered for sinne If it clensed the offender how could it deâ—…ile the sacrificer who was the Mediatour to God for abolishing sin you will haue one and the same sacrifice to be holie acceptable and auaileable for sinne and yet to be defiled hatefull and accursed with sinne you may call lighâ—… darknesse and good euill and thinke the prophet denouneeth no woe to you because your inuentions are priuiledged But to mine vnderstanding and I thinke to your Readers these plaine contrarieties of holy and defiled acceptable and hatefull righteous and sinnefull in one and the same sacrifice and sufferer at one and the same time will not stand together but you must be colted or cursed in your warbling conâ—…its It is nothing else in all this Question that we held but that God vsed Christ our Redeemer and Suertie As he doth sinners so farre As possibilitie admitteth You neuer want an As to helpe you at need You heare the Fathers say for of their sense you speake that God permitted the wicked to reproch his Sonne and to put him to a shamefull and cruell death as if he had beene the vilest malefactor amongst the multitude thence you collect that God punished Christ As he doth sinners that is with the greatest and sorest torments of death and damnation that are in this life or in hell But this As doth rather plunge you into the mire then plucke you out of it and therefore you adde so farre as possibilitie admitteth Now how farre that is by whom shall we be tried by the Scriptures and Fathers or by your shallow conceits and fancies you haue beene told often enough that where the Scriptures make three kinds of death due to sinners and for sinne the death of the bodie the death of the soule and the second death which is the euerlasting torment of bodie and soule in hell fire and all the learned and Catholike Fathers hold the same confession the two last deaths spirituall and eternall are not onely impossibilities but horrible blasphemies to be ascribed to the person of Christ and to either of these you would not yet speake one word but by stealth Now you haue gotten hold of a double As saying that God vsed Christ As he doth sinners so farre As possibilitie admitteth you thinke your selfe safe and out of this As you will frame vs new deaths of the soule a new Hell and all the same which the damned doe suffer in substance not in circumstance But we haue long looked for your proofes and till they come tie vp your As to serue you for another turne For this the Fathers are not silent if I were so ambitious as you in producing multitudes of men Only Cyprian and Athanasius and Austen shall content me in this Whether my care to teach nothing touching matters of Faith but what I see confirmed by the Scriptures and confessed by the writings of the Auncient Fathers may be called Ambition I leaue it to the Reader my paines haue beene the more therein which if any condemne I referre the Cause to him
which God gaue against Adam for eating of the forbidden fruit Soluit you interpret he satisfied where the word is he loosed or dissolued it 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 you translate vnder the appearance Athanasius meaning the substance of mans soule and bodie which he calleth the fourme of man 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 you render of a Damned man applying it to Christ for some countenance to your cause in laying the paines of the damned on the soule of Christ where Athanasius speaketh that word of Adam that was condemned for sinne in whose substance or forme Christ appeared that is a true man to dissolue the sentence giuen against Adam when he was first condemned And that which is most intolerable where Athanasius in the same sentence the verie next words expresly addeth that Christ was altogether vntouched either with condemnation or with sinne to shew that he ment Adam in the former word of condemnation you purposely skippe and neglect that which should lead you to the trueth of his speech and directly against his plaine and manifest words you referre Damnation to Christ as if in spite of Athanasius though he earnestly and openly professe the contrary you would wrest his words to dishonour and belie Christ and make the Reader beleeue that some before you had ascribed damnation vnto Christ. But be ashamed of these monstrous falsifications if you haue any shame in you or if not your Reader will soone perceaue what cause it is you haue in hand that must be vpheld with such hatefull forgeries Athanasius doctrine is very sound and good though you will not acknowledge it that Christ in his owne person taking our humane nature vnto him dissolued the sentence that he gaue against Adam when he condemned him for transgressing and by his bodie dead and laid in the graue he freed our bodies from the power of corruption and with his soule descending into hell he quited our soules from all the right and power that hell had ouer vs by sinne This whiles Athanasius mindeth to expresse he saith He that examined Adams disobedience and gaue iudgement comprised a double punishment in his sentence saying to the earthly part earth thou art and to earth thoushalt returne and to the soule thou shalt die the death and thereupon man is deuided in twaine and condemned to goe vnto two places to wit his bodie to the graue and his soule to hell It was therefore needfull that the pronouncer of that sentence should himselfe by himselfe dissolue his owne sentence 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 appearing in the forme or substance of him that was condemned but yet without either condemnation or sinne that the freedome of the whole man might be wrought by man in the newnesse of the image of the Sonne of God I shall not need to prooue that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is the substantiall forme as well of God as of man the Apostle applieth it to both and Athanasius in this verie place saith 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 The fourme of his owne soule vnsubiected to the bands of death Christ sent present before them and so againe Christ deliuering vs 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in his owne perfect and true formâ—… or substance answerable to ours This could you not chuse but see if either you perused Athanasius himselfe or the verie page 181. of my conclusion which you cite and whence you tooke this authoritie where it is euident by the full wordes of Athanasius in the same sentence that Christ was cleere from sinne and vncondemned and that man was the person condemned for sinne which you could not misse without infinite negligence or inexcusable blindnesse Austen we saw a little before We saw his name as now we doe but we sawe no words of his that any way made to your purpose He saith Accursed is all sinne whether it be the deed deseruing or the punishment deserued which is called sinne because it commeth by or from sinne And likewise that Christ receaued our punishment without sinne that thereby he might dissolue our sinne and end our punishment Truely accursed is sinne and the punishment inflicted on the ofâ—…ender for sinne abiding without remission or repentance otherwise punishment after sinne remitted as in the godly or without desert of sinne as in Christ is not a true curse separating from God not from the true blessings of God which make vs certainly and euerlastingly happie but it is a curse depriuing vs of externall and corporall blessings which God of his bountie first bestowed on the life of man and often recalleth for triall of obedience and chastising of disobedience as also for preuenting occasions of sinne and auoiding of greater vengeance if we should be suffered to walke secure and carelesse in the waies of our hearts Christ then receaued a curse for vs which in him was the chastisement or punishment of our sinne yet as he no way deserued it so was it not destruction which lighteth on the wicked for their wilfull persisting in sinne but a proofe of his obedience and a full satisfaction for our offences respecting his person that suffered it who was God and Man and is by Saint Austen called our Punishment as well for the cause which was wholy ours as for the likenesse it had with the punishments prouided for vs in this life where Christ suffered and not in hel where Christ could not suffer It is no euill in it selfe to be punished but to deserue punishment And so Basil. The true euill is sinne whose end is destruction that which seemeth euill with afflicting or greeuing the sense hath the force of good in it Your former sense that Christ was a sacrifice for sinne how differeth it from your second that he was punished for our sinnes With you it may be a question with me it is none For though they were both ioined in Christes sufferings yet that is no reason to take away their difference In the sacrifice which Christ ofâ—…ered vnto God for the sinnes of the world himselfe was the Priest and the Offerer and by his willing obedience submitting himselfe to his Fathers will made a recompence for our sinne which we could not doe In his Martyrdome he was a patient sufferer of that which the Iewes with cruell and wicked rage wrongfully laid on him when he was deliuered by Gods determinate counsell into their hands Now betweene his patient suffering from men and willing offering to God there is some difference if you could see it though they were both coupled in his death they both prooue directly and necessarily that he must be indeed sinnefull by imputation The one prooueth that he bare our sinnes in his bodie on the tree but by no meanes that he was guiltie of them the other sheweth that he clensed our sinnes and so was no way defiled with them How could he be truely punished for sinne by God but that he was sinnefull by imputation Because he
works and though his works must alwaies be measured by his wil yet must his power be limited to neither because God is able to doe many things which he neuer did nor will doe And in his works if you bind him with any necessitie to do as he did and leaue him not at libertie to doe all things according to his owne wisdome and will you reuiue the accursed error of the Manichees against whom Saint Austen fully resolueth Nullam ergo necessitatem patitur Deus neque necessitate facit quae facit sed summa ineffabili voluntate ac potestate God then suffereth no necessitie neither doth he the things which he doth with any necessitte but with a supreame and vnspeakeable will and power So that the words of Gregorie Austen and Ambrose are most true that God had other meanes in his power to saue vs then by the death of his owne Sonne but a BETTER or more conuenient way to demonstrate his loue and mercy towards vs and to manifest his wisedome power and iustice against sinne death and Satan he had not for no Question God chose the best And why these words should offend any Christian man I see no cause since they be both sound and sober They oppose Gods power against his expresse and reuealed will You were told it is an error to restraine Gods power to his will as if he could not doe more or otherwise then he hath done but in this you conceiue them not For they doe not say God had meanes to change his will or to alter his promise once published but when he first decreed this way to saue man it was in his power to haue appointed an other way if it had pleased him So that God was not tied to determine this way by any necessitie as if the power of euill preuailed against him or choyse of other meanes failed him but this in the wisedome of God common to all three persons in that most holy Trinitie was allowed as the most honorable and acceptable way to God and most fauorable and comfortable to man And this confession which you so much controle hath beene vsed by Diuines of all ages howsoeuer you know not what to make of it in your new Diuinitie Cyprian before their time Et sine hoc holocausto poterat Deus tantum condonasse peccatum sed facilitas veniae laxaret habenas peccatis effrenibus quae etiam Christi vix cohibent passiones God was able to haue pardoned so great sinne without this Sacrifice but the facilitie of forgiuenesse would loose the raynes to vnbridled sinnes which euen the sufferings of Christ doe skant represse Nazianzene euen with the eldest of them It was possible for God to saue man without taking flesh by his only will as he did and doth worke all things without the helpe of a Body Damascene after them He was not vnable that can doe all things by his Almightie power and strength to take man from the Tyrant that possessed him Bernard likewise Was not the Creator able to restore his worke without this difficultie He was able but he chose rather to wrong himselfe then the most lewd and hatefull vice of vnthankefulnesse should haue any colour in man Zanchius resolueth the same Could not mankind be deliuered by any other meanes then by Christs death who can doubt it Solo nutu iussu ac voluntate diuina poterat It might haue beene deliuered by the onely becke Commandement and will of God Master Caluin whose warinesse you so much commend where he maketh any thing for you doubteth not in this Assertion to ioyne with Ambrose Austen and Gregorie against you Poterat nos Dominus verbo aut nutu redimere nisi aliter nostra causa visum esset The Lord might haue Redeemed vs with a word or a becke of his but that for our sakes he thought good otherwise to doe it The Booke of Homilies on which you would seeme so much to depend goeth farder then either Ambrose or Austen saith Was not this a sure pledge of Gods loue to giue vs his owne Sonne from heauen he might haue giuen vs an Angell if he would or some other Creature and yet should his loue haue beene farre aboue our deserts All these Similitudes of Mediator Redeemer and Suretie may stand very well together in the office of Christ though you would perswade vs the contrarie yea rather they confirme ech other The names of Mediator Redeemer are exactly affirmed of Christ and often authorised in the Scriptures the name of Suretie to God for vs is not he is called Gods Suretie to vs of a better Testament then the Law because God in him and by him hath assured vs of his mercie and grace in this life and of his heauenly kingdome in the life to come And if you will needs vrge the Similitude of Sureties from the course and custome of humane Lawes which appoint and admitte Sureties they vtterly exclude vs in the case that we were in from hauing any Sureties For neither in Capitall crimes nor in Corporall paines doth mans Law allow any Sureties Againe no Suretie standeth bound for a seruant much lesse for a condemned dead person Since then we were not only the seruants of sinne but for haynous offences condemned Soule and Body to euer lasting perdition and already dead in Soule by sinne no course of Law allowed vs Sureties Moreouer the Prince who is the Lord ouer the Law may be no Suretie because he is not chalengable by the Law how then will you bind the King of Kings to be our Suretie as if the most Soueraigne were most subiected to the Law besides Christ freed vs by giuing himselfe and his life for vs. What Sureties doe so Christ bought vs with a Price to be his seruants Doe Sureties buy their debtors to serue them Christ gaue infinitely more then we were worth Is that possible for Sureties Christ did change our punishment in his person from eternall death to the death of the Crosse. Haue Sureties that libertie or authoritie We rested on Gods promise for our Redemption before it was performed Know you not that a bare promise by mans Law doth not bind though God be faâ—…thfull in all his words Albeit then Christ recompenced our debt and voluntarily by his owne death discharged our danger being no way thereto bound yet since he obserued none other conditions of a Suretie and no right or Law did allow vs Sureties I see no cause why you should change the honor of a free Redeemer so much mentioned in the Scriptures into the Thraldome of a Suretie bound with vs as you say to pay our debt which was euerlasting destruction of Body and Soule Our publike Churches Doctrine also auoucheth that â—…e was our Suretie Our Church alloweth that Catechisme to be taught in Schooles to Children with whom it may be you seâ—…ke to be sorted because you
neuer waded any farder vnlesse in one or two new writers that fit your fansie It doth approue likewise and appoint Erasmus Paâ—…aphrase to lâ—…e openly in the Church for euery man that doubteth of any thing in the nâ—…we Testament to reade for his instruction and yet you will not take euery word in Erasmus Paraphrase for the publike Doctrine of the Church of England For so you should â—…oone exclude the most of your new conceits But what saith the Catechisme that Christ was bound to suffer for vs or did endure the same damnation which we dâ—…serued It sayth that Christ was our Suretie The Catechisme goeth not so farre but sayth God dealt cum Christo quasi sponsore with Christ as it were with a Suretie Christ then did voluntarily assume some similitude but not the strict and exact condition of a Suretie euen by the tenor of the words which you cite though you guilefully translate them as if Christ had beene our Suretie It is one thing to hold Christ was our Suretie and ioyntly bound with vs by law to pay our debts which is your errour and another thing to say Christ was as it were a Suretie or did of his owne accord discharge our debts for vs. The Catechisme in this very section precisely noteth that he was not bound as Sureties be but of his owne will suffered for vs the cruell and wicked rage of the Iewes in putting him to death Haec quidem illi in eum crudeliter malitiose atâ—… impiè perpetrarant verum ipâ—…e sua sâ—…onte ac volens haec omnia perpeâ—…s atâ—… perfunctus est These things before described the Iewes did cruelly malitioâ—…ly and impiouâ—… against him but he OF HIS OVVNE ACCORD and good will not bound suffered all these things And before he commeth to your words he sayth but it iâ—… not vnusuall amongst men that one should vndertake and suffer for another By which he doth not meane that by right or law one man may be bound to suffer or die for another but by liking or loue men are sometimes thereto led Otherwise the law both of God man is directly against all such suffering Sancimus ibiesse poenaÌ„ 〈◊〉 est Peccata suos teneant authores nec vlterius progrediatur metus quam reperiaâ—…r delicium We appoint say the Emperours Arcadius and Honorius that punishment shall be there where the fault is Let offences binde their committers and let no feare of punishment extend farther than to such as be guiltie of the crime Gods law doth ratifie the same The wickednesse of the wicked shall be vpon himselfe The sonne shall not beare the 〈◊〉 of the father neither shall the father beare the iniquitie of the sonne but the same soule that sinneth shall die Wherefore the Catechisme if he vnderstood what he said as I truely thinke he right-well did could not deriue Christes bodily sufferings from any band or Suertiship allowed amongst men by Law but onely from Christes loue and will which is aboue all law by which indeed he humbled and emptied himselfe to the death of the crosse for our sakes when there was neither law nor band to compell him to it Also Cyprians words are plaine and can not beare any other sense than I make of them that Christ was a verie Suretie for his people and suffered such a forsaking of God touching sense of paine and want of present feeling of comfort in his paines as the damned doe I did well to say you neither vnderstood nor liked the meaning of Cyprian for where there is nothing in Cyprians words that bolstereth your error you haue made such a construction of them or rather such a contradiction to them that few men besides you could deuise the like For by them you bring the person of the Sonne of God in his humane nature that was alwayes full of grace and trueth To haue no MORE SENSE NOR COMFORT OF GOD for the time THAN THE DAMNED HAVE From which pâ—…stilent position though you kisse your hand in it I wish all the godly to blesse themselues But let vs first see on which words of Cyprian you graffe this golden fruit and then how true it is and agreâ—…able to the faith Your foundation â—…s because Cyprian sayth of Christ Thou diddest shew anxietates illius querimoniae verba esse dilâ—…ctorum tuorum quorum personam causam assumpseras the pensiuenesse of that complaint My God my God why hast thou forsaken me to be the words of thy beloued whose person and cause thou hadst assumed What is this to your purpose or how doth this patronize your violent and wicked assertion The dolors of Christs complaint on the Crosse that he was forsaken were the words of his beloued that is Christ spake those words in the name and behalfe of his Elect that they were forsaken of God not of his owne person as Austen saith of the same That was the voice of Christes members not of the head And Leo Sub redemptorum suorum voce clamabat Christ cried those words vnder the voice of his Redeemed Now this being Cypâ—…ans plaine speech that those were the words of his Elect finding themselues for their sinnes worthie to be forsaken of God how come you to turne Christ into his beloued that is the head into the members and his beloued into the damned and then to conclude of Christ that he had no more sense nor comfort of God in his paines than the damned haue Such another leape will easily bring you and your followers from faith to infidelity and if you take not heed the sooner from the number of the Elect to the rancke of the Reprobate which take so light occasion to draw Christ into the same desperation for the time with the damned Cypriâ—…ns words you say can not beare any other sense It is not enough for you shamefully to peruert Cyprians words but you must proudly proclaime in print that they can haue none other sense than you list to like of when his speech expresly doth import the contrarie If you had auouched so much of Christes words we would desire no better interpreter then Cyprian who saith those were the wordes of Christs beloued and so that forsaking had no direct application to Christes person but a mercifull relation to his members who might often inwardly feele that they were forsaken of Gods fauor and assistance for the time though not as the damned are MEE you thinke in Christes words must signifie his person and not his members But Cyprian is expresly opposite to you in that point and saith MEE there is as much as MY BELOVED or chosen members And for this exposition Cyprian hath the manifest precedence of the sacred Scriptures in which Christ often speaketh of his members as of himselfe by the verie same words Saul Saul why persecutest thou mee that is my members whom I loue and esteeme as my selfe and this is no cauilling euasion the Iudge at the last
day shall award heauen and hell with the warrant of this speech I was hungrie and yee gaue me meate I thirsted and yee gaue me drinke I was a stranger and ye lodged me I was naked and yee clothed me I was sicke yee visited me I was in prison and yee came vnto me and so foorth where in one Chapter Christ calleth his members by the name of himselfe 27. times All which are most false of Christs person for he then raigned in glory at the right hand of his Father endured none of those miseries but yet they are most true in his members whom he calleth by the name of himselfe because he loued them as himselfe more then himselfe since for their sakes he humbled and emptied himselfe And this reason of his words himselfe will giue before men and Angels â—… In as much as you did it vnto one of the least of my brethren you did it vnto mee The same is verie vsuall in the Scriptures Hee that heareth you heareth me and he that despiseth you despiseth me He that receaueth you receaueth mee They haue not reiected thee said God to Samuel they haue reiected mee He that toucheth you toucheth the apple of his eie Where a most louing acceptation is shewed of the sufferings and seruices of men for Christes sake but no proper attributton verified of Christ. This Damascene expresseth by making two kinds of appropriation vnto Christ in the Scriptures one naturall and substantiall the other personall and habituall Naturall as when the Lord in Nature and trueth being made a man had experience of things incident to our Nature Personall and habituall as when one putteth on the person of another for pittie or loue and vseth speech in his name and for him NOTHING APPERTAINING TO the speaker HIMSELFE According to which Christ appropriated the curse and dereliction due to vs not himselfe being made those things but assuming our person and reckoning himselfe with vs. For neither as God nor as man was he euer forsaken of his Father neither was he made sinne nor a curse Assuming therefore our person and reckoning himselfe with vs as the head for the members he spake these things For weâ—… were guiltie of sinne and malediction as incredulous and disobedient and for that cause were forsaken Which are Cyprians plaine words also Quòd pro eis voluisti intelligi qui deseri à Deo propter peccata meruerant Thy complaint of forsaking thou wouldst haue vnderstood as spoken for them who had deserued to be forsaken of God in regard of their sinnes Then by Cyprians iudgement Christ spake those wordes neither for himselfe nor of himselfe but for those and of those that deserued to be forsaken of God whom he calleth by the name of himselfe as he doth oftentimes elsewhere in the Scriptures because they were members of his bodie and as deare to him as himselfe If this be all that Cyprians words imply how come you to make that false and prophane collection out of Cyprian that Christ suffered such a forsaking of God touching sense of paine and want of present seeling of comfort in his paines AS THE DAMNED DOE You would faine set your infernall imaginations to sale vnder the names of some of the auncient Fathers to inure your Reader with the name of the DAMNED lest he should detest your irreligious presumption if you should proferre these pedegrees in your owne name But a man may know the fowle by the feather and your deuices shew themselues by the verie vtterance of them For expressing two points in Christes sufferings the one is sensiblie absurd the other apparantly false and wicked The paine of Christes soule you euery where defend was inflicted by the immediate hand of God and was the selfe same which the damned doe suffer Then how could this be called a forsaking in Christ when it was rather a plaine persuing of him by Gods owne hand Doth a man depart from an other when he persueth him or forsake him whom he followeth with the stroke of his hand If therefore Christes suffering in soule came from the immediate hand of God as you dreame Christ should haue said my God my God why persuest thou me or why doth thine hand oppresse me and not why doest thou forsake me and leaue me in the hands of mine enemies without any shew that thou regardest or respectest me The second point is farre woorse For if Christ had no more comfort in his paine theâ—… the damned haue then Christ for the time of his suffering had neither faith hope grace nor loue of God nor any fauour with God nor â—…xpectation that hee himselfe should be saued much lesse that he should saue others from all which the damned are cleane cut off Indeed this was the conceit that the diuel by the mouths of the wicked did vrge against Christ to vpbraid him with his case as desperate and to persue him as forsaken of God and therefore this resolution that Christ was thus indeed forsaken or felt no more present comfort then the damned doe is plainly the diuels Diuinitie and maketh as flat a contradiction to all the Scriptures as any the damned themselues could deuise For Dauid ledde by the spirit of God sayth exactly of Christes sufferings in the person of Christ I set the Lord alwaies before me he is at my right hand that I shall noâ—… slide Therefore my heart is glad and my tongue reioiceth my flesh also doth rest in hope And the Apostle saith that Iesus for the ioy that was set before him endured the crosse and despised the shame And he that against these expresse Scriptures auoucheth that Christ had no more feeling of any comfort in his paines then the damned haue in theirs I see no cause why the whole Church of Christ should not hold him madde or woorse But you meane no present comfort As if faith hope and grace the assured fauour and promise of God yea personall coniunction with God and his owne certaine knowledge that he should rise againe the third day Lord of the quicke and dead and Sauiour of the whole world did not yeeld him present comfort in the middest of his greatest paine insomuch that the Apostle saith Christ endured the crosse hee meaneth with patience and desâ—…ised the shame thereof So great was the ioy proposed and comfort conceaued euen in the sharpest of his sufferings By present comfort you meane present deliuerance Meane what you will your meaning is lewd and wicked to broche the doctrine of diuels vnder parables and paraphrases of abused wordes and slâ—…e comparisons with the damned For if Christ hâ—…d hope then had he comfort because hope confoundeth not If he had no hope then did he despaire and so must you admit in Christ either consolation which you denâ—…e or desperation for the time which must be ioyned with infidelitie fâ—…r that he could not want hope but by lacke of faith
that was against vs and spoyling powers and principalities he made an open shew of them triumphing ouer them in himselfe Yee died and were buried with Christ who fastned the handwriting of ordinances to the Crosse that he might abolish it from hauing any right to tie or yoke his members Yee likewise were quickned and raised together with Christ who rising spoyled powers and principalities and triumphed ouer them in his own Person that he alone might be Lord of quicke and dead of Men and Angels so that these words spoyling powers and Principalities and triumphing ouer them are not referred to the Crosse for any thing that appeareth in the Text but to Christs Resurrection and take their truth and force from his subiecting all power in heauen and earth vnder him by his rising againe from the dead This triumph ouer Satan and all his kingdome the same Apostle to the Ephesians setteth downe as a consequent to Christs death and pertinent to his Resurrection Ascending on high he led Captiuitie Captiue and this he ascended what meaneth it but that he descended first into the lower parts of the earth So that ascending from the lower parts of the earth he led Captiuitie Captiue which is all one with he triumphed ouer powers and Principalities The Syriack translation of the New Testament together with the ancientest of the Latine Fathers doth not only so interpret the place but it doth expresse so much in the verie text that Christ had this conquest after his death The Syriack translation sayth By the dispoiling or putting off his bodie Christ made â—… shew of principalitics and powers and confounded them openly backnumch in his owne person For kenumah whence backnumch is framed in that tongue properly signifieth a Person The translations which the eldest Fathers of the Latine church either made or followed contained as much Apostolus de Christo refers vt exutus carnem potestates dehonestauit palam triumphatis illis in semetipso The Apostle reporteth of Christ sayth Nouatian how putting off his flesh he disgraced powers openly triumphing ouer them in his owne person Neither doth he idlely propose him putting off his flesh but because hee would haue him conceiued in his resurrection to put it on againe Hilarie sometimes translated it Exutus carne and sometimes Spolians se carne Principatus potestates tradux it cum fiducia triumphans cos in semetipso Christ putting off or stripping himselfe of flesh led powers and principalities captiues with boldnesse triumphing ouer them in his on ne person Both which he repeateth in his ninth booke shewing how they may stand together and adding Spoliata enim caro Christus est mortuus The flesh put off was Christ now dead So Ambrose alleageth this place Carnem se exuit Christ put of his flesh And Pacianus Exuens se carnem traduxit potestates libere triumphans eas in semetipso Christ putting off his flesh carried powers as Captiues freely triumphing ouer them in his owne person S. Austen often citeth the same place interpreting the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 as the rest doe Exuens se carnem or carne and thereby noting Christes laying aside of mortalitie Apostolus dicit exuens se carnem principatus potestates exemplauit fiducialiter triumphans eos in semetipso The Apostle sayth Christ putting off flesh made an example of principalities and powers and confidently triumphed ouer them in his owne person Where he sayth Christ douested himselfe of flesh by flesh in this place we vnderstand the mortalitie of flesh for which the bodie is properly called flesh Zanchius a learned and aduised Reader and weigher of antiquitie not onely followeth this exposition himselfe saying Resurgendo de inferis triumphauit principatusque potestates expoliat as in triumphum captiuas abduxit vt est ad Coloss. 2. By rising from the lower parts Christ triumphed and spoiled principalities and powers carying them captiue in maner of a triumph as is in the second to the Colossians but he also giueth his testimony of it Therefore nothing hindereth but what Paul here writeth we may interpret as the words doe sound of a reall triumph of Christes soule seuered from his bodie in the sight of God onely and of the blessed spirits specially since the Fathers for the most part do so expound it and of our writers not a few nor the meanest Bethinke your selfe now how wide you range from the Apostles meaning by the exposition of so many learned and ancient writers Christ rose Conquerer of death and hell Ergo say you the diuels tormented Christes soule before he died with the very paines of the damned If any man be so patient to like this Logicke and not to laugh at it I much maruell seeing the Conclusion so meere a stranger to the Antecedent which hath no coherence with it But some you will say expound it of the Crosse. That is more repugnant to your purpose than the former for if not only after but euen on the Crosse Christ had that apparent and glorious triumph ouer Satan and all his power which the Apostle speaketh of then was Satan farre from tormenting Christes soule with the paines of hell as you imagine There was a conflict you thinke before the conquest A conflict argueth a resistance for the time but no preualence There was a battell in heauen sayth S. Iohn Michael and his Angels fought against the dragon and the dragon fought and his Angels but they preuailed not And the great dragon called the Diuell and Satan was cast out into the earth Shall we say that the dragon and his angels euen the Diuell and his assistants preuailed against Christ because they resisted and encountered him If this please you not take the Similitude which our Sauiour himselfe vseth of his owne doings towards the Diuell When a strong man armed keepeth his house the things that he possesseth are in peace but when a stronger then he entreth vpon him and ouer commeth him he taketh away all his armour wherein he trusted and diuideth his spoiles And no man can enter into a strong mans house and take away his goods except he first binde that strong man and then spoile his house If Christ then did enter on Satan and binde him and disarme him and so spoile him that he might make an open shew of him and of all his power what necessitie is there that Christ being the stronger should be endangered or oppressed by Satan farther then hee himselfe would The conquest was bloudie for so much as in ouercomming Satan Christ lost his life He lost it not he layed it downe to put the diuell to greater confusion for when he was not onely weake and wounded vnto death but past all helpe and hope as Satan in his pride presumed then Christ raised himselfe from the dead and ouerthrew the whole kingdome and strength of Satan spoiling him of all his
from the furious rage of Satan and malice of wicked men Here are many mights rashly and falsly supposed of Christ but not a mite of Salt or truth in them Is it lawfull for you Sir Defender to dreame what you list of Christs sufferings and when you are required proofe thereof to say It might be so extraordinarily What absurdities and heresies may not thus be maintayned if euery addle braine shall frame to himselfe new Passions and strange Temptations in Christ and all on this ground forsooth it might be so Their eares must exceedingly itche that will leaue the writings of the Euangelists and Apostles and listen to your extraordinarie might be But what might be Might Christ vpon all this spirituall fury and subtilitie of Satan or concurrence and cooperation of the Iewes haue his Faith hope or loue of and in God faile or decrease could he mistrust or doubt that he might perish and neither saue himselfe noâ—… vs why Role you thus with Roperick Termes and frights of franticke men when you speake of Christs Temptations as if hell or Satan were to strong for the Spirit and grace of God in Christ or could seuer the vnion made with the mightie hand of God of Christs humane nature into one Person with his Diuine It may be your strange fansies doe often put you to such plunges but he that stedfastly beleeueth in the Sonne of God and knoweth the truth and force of his Masters words when ready to goe to his Passion he said to his Disciples d Iohn 16. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 be bold or consident I haue ouercome the world will neuer doubt such dangers as you dreame of For in the world which Christ ouercame is the Prince thereof comprised euen the diuell whom before Christ pronounced to haue nothing that is no part nor place in him And to me that am assured the diuell could doe nothing against Christ but what Christ himselfe would and that the Sauiour of the world had power enough not onely to resist but also to represse the furâ—…e and subtilitie of Satan with his word or becke saue what him selfe would permit to let the diuell see his violence endured his asâ—…aults repelled his temptations reiected and his whole kingdome despised aud troden vnder foote these Tragicall Termes of yours are but blusterings of a busie Brayne and blastes of an vnstayed Tongue that would say somewhat and can not tell what and therefore hideth his â—…isformed fansies vnder the visard of strange and incomprehensible conceites e Defenc. pag. 85. li. 1. Here now we may see how vniustly you conclude that Satan could no other way assault Christ as an Instrument of Gods wrath but onely by executing torments on his Soule euen in such wise as he tormenteth damned Sâ—…ules in hell We see you haue opened your packe of strange wares and wastfull words and otherwise besides your owne liking you haue brought nothing for all this pelâ—…e and Trash that you haue vttered My words that are short but expressing the same which you with many circumductions fetch about to couer the presumption of your cause you much mislike and yet if you weigh them well you shall see they containe the very summe of your deuices To be tempted with suggestions of malediction reiection confusion desperation and damnation so they take no place noâ—… find no harbour in the hart of man can haue no such incomprehensible sorrowes nor hellish Torments as you talke of The Hart by Faith presently and throughly resisting quencheth all those fierie Darts of Satan as flaxe vnder foote And therefore you must either take from Christ present and perfect resistance by deâ—…reasing his faith and sâ—…aggering his hope or else you can neuer sinck him into such sorrowes as you suppose You giue him f Trea pa. 45. li. 25. a glorious conquest at the last but in the meane while you leauâ—… him not onely fearing and fainting but euen ouerwhelmed and all conâ—…ounded with these strange temptations and incomprehensible sorrowes which sometimes you say come from g Ibid li. 24. the immediate hand of God and sometimes from the diuels h Defenc pag. 15. â—…i â—…8 as Gods Instruments working the very effects of Gods wrath vpon him And these paines you say were not onely as sharpe as any are in hell but euen the same which the damned doe suffer Now wherein haue I wronged you except with too much sparing you What in saying you defend that Satan executed Torments on Christs Soule such as he doth on the demned Your words import no lesse The diuels you say were Gods Instruments to work on Christ the very effects of his wrath Now what are the effects of Gods wrath h Defenc pag. 15. â—…i â—…8 equall to all the paines of hell and i Pag. 12. li. â—…0 the same which are in â—…ell but the torments of the damned Soules in hell But you would haue Christ as well inwardly tempted as Tormented by the diuell and where you defend both I reported but one Pardon me that wrong I would haue hid your folly but you will not suffer me Howbeit I refuted the one and left the other as worthie none other answere then that where in the Scriptures the diuels confesse Christs word and presence did torment them you without Scripture haue found the diuels tormented Christ. k Defenc. pag. 85. li. 4. That can be say you no other way then by Satans verie possâ—…ssing of those soules Which grosse and infernall speculations of yours for trueths you can not make them I vtterly leaue to your owne discussing Are your fansies become so fine that what the Scriptures teach of Satans possessing mens soules or bodies must be grosse and your inuentions without wit or reason must be spruice What sayd I in any of these things which the plaine words or maine grounds of the Scripture do not confirme That the diuell can not worke but where he is Will you giue him more then an almighty power to worke where he is not or will you affoord him an omnipresence equall with God that he may be euery where to the end he may worke euery where as God doth Satan may torment the soule you will say and not possesse it The diuels that could not worke on swine but they must first l Matth. 8. enter them before they could make them runne headlong into the sea can they worke in men before they enter and possesse them The Cananite that intreated Christ to haue m Matth. 15. mercie on her daughter who was m Matth. 15. miserably vexed with a diuell receiued at length this answer n Mark â—… For this saying goe thy way â—…he diuell is gone out of thy daughter The father that brought his lunaticke sonne to Christ confessed o Mark 9. he had a dâ—…mbe spirit which did teare him and cast him often into the fire and into the water to destroy him and Christ confirmeth his words in
know not where to rest The first was vnspeakeable smart and paine from Gods immediate hand inflicting What torments the Defenâ—…er hath deâ—…sed for Christes soule the same anguish on the soule of his Sonne that he doth on the damned spirits For this you haue neither script nor scrole text nor title in the word of God it is a bold and lewd deuice of yours presuming what you please of Gods hand because it is diuersly taken in the Scriptures From thence you lept to diuels and made them Gods instruments to torment the soule of Christ with strange temptations and incomprehensible sorrowes suggested into the soule of Christ. Then you made Christs owne heart conceaue and discerne from the wordes and acts of the Iewes fired and enraged by Satan the dreadfull and painfull strokes and stings of Gods anger and iust indignation against him for our sinnes and yet all these are but the tumultuous dreames of your owne head and certaine wastefull words that may be drawen to diuers senses besides which you haue neither expressed nor confirmed any thing Now you begin to make Commentaries vpon the Apostle to the Hebrewes which are as cleere as a coale and as sound as a satchell of saw-dust p Defenc. pag. 86. li. 10. First en ho in that which himselfe suffered signifieth either the 1 Defenc. pag. 86. li. 10. matter wherein Christ is able to succour vs or the 2 Defenc. pag. 86. li. 10. meanes whereby he becommeth readie and fit to succour vs or els the occasion and 3 Defenc. pag. 86. li. 10. reason why he is the readier to succour vs euen in that he himselfe suffered and was tempted Your expositions be like your conclusions they haue neither root nor rinde Here are in shew three parts of a diuision all which indeed you say are q Defenc. pag. 86. li. 31. but one and the same in effect and so your triple diuision senselesse and needlesse the parts importing one thing and the r Li. 27. first way seemeth to you not the vnlikeliest which if you put any difference between them is the falsest farthest from the Apostles meaning For that Christ helpeth men in nothing but what himselfe first suffered that he suffred al particular degrees speciall sorts of afflictions as well in soule as in bodie which may befall any man these are so lowd lies that but you no man would make either of them the apostles speech or purpose But your lucke is to light on the worst or your choise leadeth you to fansie the foulest that you may differ fro other men be singular in your own sense For your selfe see say s Li. 35. all the particular kinds of crosses in the world neither could nor can possibly come to any man and so not to Christ. Why then make you that the likeliest meaning of the Apostles words that Christ suffered all the matter that is all those kinds of paines wherein he succoureth vs If you meane generally that Christ tasted all sorts of paines that is both corporall and spirituall then shall you neuer conclude that he tasted this or that kinde of paine in speciall but it sufficeth that Christ had not only a diuine respect in mercie but an humane sense and experience of our miseries both outward and inward to assure vs that he is compassionate and tenderly affected in our infirmities and extremities because he himselfe felt the sharpnesse of feare sorow shame and paine whiles heere he liued and hath not forgotten how neere they pinch the weakenesse of mans nature And more the Apostle meant not in those words then to shew the Sonne of God would in his owne person and humane nature feele our infirmities and miseries that he might haue an humane commiseration and compassion of vs when we are afflicted by the remembrance of his owne sufferings which the words doe fully fit For t Heb. 2. en ho in that or in as much as he suffered when he was tempted or tried he is able with more tendernesse of heart to helpe those that are tempted u Defenc. pag. 86. li. 18. Which way soeuer of these three we take the words yet they plainly inferre that Christ him selfe felt all the miserie and smart of our sufferings and Temptations which at any time we feele The smart and griefe of reiection confusion desperation and such like Christ neuer tasted because they are faithlesse and gracelesse feares and sorrowes in vs. Yet in these Christ can and doth sâ—…ccour vs not because he suffered the same but for that he knoweth what affliction of spirit feare and sorrow bring with them by his owne experience not of the same obiects which are sinfull but of the same affections which are naturall And none of these waies which you mention came neere the concluding of any such thing except you vrge the first against all truth and sense acknowledged euen by your selfe where you say x Defenc. pag. 87. li 21. I speake not of euery particular in each of them or which euery man meeteth withall Graunt then that Christ in his manhood would â—…eele the sharpest impressions that feare or sorrow shame or paine could make on the Body or Soule of Man but still without sinne is that a proofe that Christ â—…ed reiection confusion or damnation because he tasted how deeply feare could afâ—…ct mans nature What ignorant and vncoherent Collections are these Christ tâ—…ed the sharpnesse of all our affections as namely of feare sorrow and shame ergo he had all the same causes and obiects of feare sorrow and shame that we do and may â—…eele Who reasoneth so that hath any reason left in his head or hart This 〈◊〉 the 〈◊〉 KATA PANTA in all things doe fully import The words kata panta in all things or altogether may haue out of the very Text of the Apostle to the 〈◊〉 foure seuerall references and none of them neere the false construction that you make of them The first is he must be like his bretheren in all the parts of Mans nature for â—…e 〈◊〉 not the nature of Angels but the Seede of Abraham Wherefore in all things that is in all the parts and necessarie consequents of Mans nature he muâ—… be like 〈◊〉 Bretheren 2. He must be like not this or that Brother and so not like any particular Persons in any speciall cause or Circumstance but wherein they all aâ—…e Bretheren each to other y Hebr. 2. in all those things he must be like them all 3. It is but a likenesse that the Apostle vrgeth in all these things there is no equalitie much lesse an Identitie required in those words not that Christ in patient suâ—…ering of afflictions did not paâ—… all but these words import a Similitude and haue no farder force 4. These and all other things that were in Christ must be in him without sinne z Hâ—…r 4. he was tempted in all things after a likenesse but without sinne
presumptuous follie and other shew of any matter worth the medling with you do make none c Defenc. pag. 91. li. 32. First I heartily intreat the Christian Reader to marke well and to consider how your L. doth contriue three notable equiuocations in these few words Christ suffered in his soule the wrath of God which you seeme to grant but in trueth you doe not And if we adde also the paines of hel then he opposeth a fourth fallacy against vs. And these three or foure are the only pillars of his doctrine I make no pillars of my doctrine but the manifest words of the Holy Ghost teaching vs by the Scriptures the price and maner of our redemption which lest any man should thinke I diuert and wrest to my priuate or secret conceits as you doe I shew the ancient and true Church of Christ did so beleeâ—…e them and expound them before me The pillars of your doctrine are phrases follies and falsities which if you did not hide with generall and ambiguous words the considerate Reader without intreatie would soone marke your mysteries but because you are so kinde as heartily to pray the Reader to marke how you play the man I desire him likewise to obserue how shamefully you come short of your great brags and euen betray your cause to him that well considereth it d Defenc. pag. 91. li. 37. For the three former your first equiuocation is in the word Suffered and about it wee deale in this place e Et pag. 92. li. 19. Now your next equiuocation is in this He suffered in soule Your next in Gods wrath Both which I haue plainly shewed before As also your fourth fallacie which may be called Fallacia accidentis To the three last notable equiuocations as he calleth them here is all that this Defensor speaketh in this place where he would haue thee Christian Reader so considerately to marke some maruellous matters And thus shalt thou often be troubled with his vaine tatling when thou most expectest either his proofs or his promises He sendeth thee backe to peruse his former pages where thou shalt finde as little to the purpose as here thou doest though words he wanted not to couer his conceits Is there be any thing in those pages proued by him which I haue not in the same places confuted I am content to hazzard the perill of thy censure Howbeit I thinke thou mayest perceiue by my carriage that I desire to auoid and preuent all ambiguities as much as in me lieth I speake as plainly as my simple abilitie will suffer me I distinguish thinges as euidently as either the matter permitteth or the trewth requireth And therefore he that in all his defence hath yet vttered not one distinct and cleere sentence touching his cause but clowded and cloaked with proper and meere and such like shifts and shadowes neuer expounded by himselfe and knowen to no man but himselfe hath small reason though as much in this as in the rest to say that fallacies are the Pillars of my doctrine But if thou beleeue Pedlers praising their owne wares then maiest thou credit this booke-maker craking of his cleere and Sunne-shine proofes which he himselfe neither expresseth nor vnderstandeth The equiuocation of the word SVFFERING which in this place his mastershipp will deale withall will giue thee a tast what thou shalt looke for in the rest f Defenc. pag. 92. li 1. The common and ordinarie phrase vnderstandeth herein Christes feeling of paines inflicted on him by way of PROPER punishment and satisfaction for sinne which he vndertooke for vs. Onely this in the ordinarie and vsuall manner of speach is signified by Christes suffering or his passion and so we alwaies vnderstand by it This is one of your enlightned and purified expositions which is as faire and bright as the darknes of Egypt Doe men vsually ordinarily describe Christs passion to be nothing els but the feeling of paines inflictedon him by way of proper punishment who vseth these wordes by way of proper punishment besides your selfe and your adherents who vnder that colour would secretly conuey the paines of the damned into the soule of Christ for what is the proper punishment of sinne that which all sinners not Redeemed by Christ must endure or that which all men being sinners doe endure or that which none endured but Christ alone because it was proper to the dignitie of his person with that punishment which god laied on him by the hands and mouthes of men to satisfie the iustice of God for our sinnes and vtterly to abolish the guilt and wages of our sinne Proper may be either to the damned whose sinnes are neuer pardoned or proper to sinne in all mankinde euer since the first man forsooke his Creator or proper to Christes person and not common to him with the damned Which of all these senses do you containe in the word Proper You spake euen now of equiuocations and made a grieuous complaint to your Reader that I meant to circumuent you with ambiguities and what is this but to turne your Readers eyes aside on me whiles you play your part with the maine worke of Christes passion for mans Redemption how often haue I chalenged in you this shifting with proper and improper when and where pleased you Christes sufferings in all mens speeches saue yours were farre larger than his passion He suffered afliction all the time of his life yea the whole course of his life was a continuall suffering of reproches disdaines dispites besides the naturall infirmities of our flesh as hunger cold wearines weeping and such like which in his person were all sufferings and yet no man calleth his life his passion his passion we take to be the manner of his death and so all his sufferings from the Garden to the graue imposed on him by the hands mouthes or harts of men betraying forsaking or pursuing him were parts of his passion The false accusing and vniust condemning him the mocking reproching and reuiling him to be wicked and forsaken of God were parts of his passion and yet these were no inherent nor sensible paines of which you would seeme to speake when you exclude his affections of feare and griefe of minde as no parts of his passion g Defenc. pag. 91. li. 6. You cunningly take another rare sense of this word as it signifieth the affections of the mind in Christ wholy bent to holines and obedience of god you are a learned Squire that doe not vnderstand the soule suffereth as well by her affections as by her senses and that in Christ the harts and tongues of the Iewes concurred to his passion as well as their hands The affections and perturbations of the soule are vsually and properly called by the Greeke fathers 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and by the Latine passiones passions or sufferings of the minde The Apostles applie the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 SVFFERINGS both in Christ and in vs as euenly and
his bodie on the tree and whose 〈◊〉 was shed for many sor remission of sinnes Your infliction of hell paines on the soule of Christ is no such trifle that it may be lightly taken vp for your pleasure or humorously surmised vpon your vaine coniectures you must euidently and ineuitablely prooue it before any wise or sober Christian will or should beleeue it Châ—…istes feare and agonie you thinke could haue no other cause Of all others this can neuer be concluded to haue beene the cause since there is no witnesse nor word thereof in all the Scriptures That euerlasting damnation was due to our sinnes we haue no doubt but that any such iudgement could be decreed or executed against the Sonne of God or against any part of his person we lesse doubt Wherefore it is most manifest to all that list not to mixe their desperate deuices with Gods eternall trueth that no such iudgement could be giuen against the person of Christ as we should haue 〈◊〉 or as the damned feele but the i Esa. 53. chastisement of our peace was layd vpon him and k Heb. 5. though he were the Sonne yet by the things which he suffered he learned obedience It is no iudgement you will say where nothing is condemned In the finall iudgement of God against the wicked both their sinnes and their persons shall be condemned that is their persons shal be euerlastingly reiected and adiudged to perpetuall torments of bodie and soule in hell fire for their sinnes which God iustly hateth and punisheth In the l 1. Pet. 4. iudgement which beginneth at the house of God sinne is condemned in their flesh as it was in Christes but their persons are beloued in Christ and so cleansed from sinne by him that sanctifieth himselfe for their sakes and whose bloud clenseth them from all their sinnes The paterne of which iudgement was precedent in Christ their head to whose m Rom. 8. image the whole bodie must be conformed that n 2. Tim. 2. suffering with him they may raigne with him and being o 1. Pet. 4. condemned as touching men in the flesh they may liue as touching God in the spirit There must be the same minde in vs that was in Christ euen as there is the same condemnation in our flesh that was in his For in Christ and all his members sinne was condemned in the flesh that their spirits might liue to God and their bodies be raised againe to be partakers of the same blisse with their spirits The Scriptures therefore doe not appoint the iudgement of hell or of the damned vnto Christ and his members but only the destruction of their flesh ioyned with the saluation of their spirits What need had Christ you will aske to feare this iudgement As Christ had lesse need to feare the iudgement seat of God than all his members so had he more will care and power to giue God his due than all the rest of his brethren And therefore approching to God for sinners and with sinne as he vndertooke their persons and cause that is to present them to God and to profer satisfaction for their sinnes so he taught vs all our duties which is to approch the throne of Maiestie with all reuerence and feare when we beholde his passing glorie and our exceeding infirmitie and in faith of his goodnesse and feare of his greatnesse to tremble and shake before him This Christian submission which God requireth of all men Christ did most of all performe when he presented vs and our cause to God and therefore prostrate flat on the earth he humbled himselfe with greater feare and trembling but without distrust or doubt of Gods fauour than euer man before or since did This feare and trembling with all submission and deuotion yeelded by the humane nature of Christ to the diuine Maiestie of God you no way like but in a selfe conceit will haue it to be the feare of desperate and damned persons and Christes soule to be actually tormented with the same paines that are the sharpest in hell and all this you gather vpon none other ground but for that Christ exceedingly feared and sorrowed in the Garden But if no man guided by Gods spirit may heare the words doe the works or receiue the messengers of God but with feare and trembling as a seruice and duetie belonging to the Creatour from the weakenesse of the creature how much more might the humane nature of Christ now offering vs all that were sinfull to the presence of God with infinite desire and most ardent prayer to make recompence in his owne person for our offences and so through his loue and sauour with God to reconcile vs to God how much more I say might Christ in our cause and in our names shew all possible feare and trembling to so great Maiestie so mightily displeased with vs And therefore in either respect both of his owne religious humilitie and our sinfull infirmity he might performe this seruice and submission vnto the throne of Gods heauenly presence p Defenc. pag. 93. li. 32. Your testimonies touching men sinfull make nothing to the purpose at all for these could not by reason of their sinnes endure the verie presence of Gods Maiestie being in any measure reuealed vnto them but Christ in himselfe being free from all sinne could be in no such case Your exceptions are more friuolous and no way fit your fansies for what if conscience of sinne breed an amazed feare in men when the glorious presence of God is in any measure reuealed vnto them doth that exclude the religious affection submission of feare and trembling which mans weakenesse in this life oweth to the diuine Maiesty q Esa. 66. Him will I respect saith God that is poore in spirit and trembleth at my words Not only Gods glory reuealed but his word denounced requireth submission and reuerent trembling r Phil. 2. Worke your saluation sayth the Apostle with feare and trembling not meaning men should alwayes be amazed or that God still reuealed his glorious presence but that our infirmitie remembred and his Maiestie considered we should do all things commanded by him with feare and trembling Of the Corinthians Paul testifieth that they receiued Tite s 2. Cor. 7. with feare and trembling Such reuerence the faithfull yeeld to the words and works of God that they tremble at the presence of his messengers And lest you should thinke that only conscience of sinne and the brightnesse of Gods presence impresse this affection the Apostle requireth seruants to obey their t Ephes. 6. carnall masters with feare and trembling and witnesseth of himselfe when he preached the Gospell to the Corinthians he u 1. Cor. 2. was amongst them in feare and much trembling So that not onely guilt of sinne maketh men to feare and flie the sight of God as in Adam when he first transgressed and in Peter before he was called whose words you abuse to elude
our sinnes which he apprehended in the Garden and in respect thereof fell into this horrible feare These wordes of the Catâ—…chisme if we referre to the feare Christ had for his members then ioined in one bodie with him whose cause he vndertooke with more desire and care then his owne since he emptied and loaded himselfe to purchase their aduancement and ease they might be receaued and approoued as sufferable in the Christian faith but if we so tooke them as if Christ had any doubt or distrustfull feare of his owne saluation they were not agreeable to the trueth Your selfe sir wrangler speake against this later senâ—…e of the wordes as much as I doe For you say m Defenc. pag. 99. li. 11. 12. It is passing strange doctrine and simply impossible that Christ should feare the cup of eternall malediction which he perfectly knew concerned him not at all and by no meanes could euer possibly come neere him But the Catechisme saith Christ was perfused or perplexed with the horror of eternall death And as our head knit with vs into one and the same body he might tremble at eternall death hanging ouer our heads and most dreadfully persuing our sinnes in vs if he made not satisfaction for vs. You would shift the word eternall out of the text and tell vs a tale of the substance thereof which you will imagine how Christ shall suffer by a new deuice of yours though the Catechisme speake nothing thereof but if you expound the Catechisme and not correct it or confute it you must shew vs how Christ might feele or feare EVERLASTING OR FVTVRE DEATH due to sinners For those are the words of the Catechisme who not content to say EVERLASTING addeth thereto FVTVRE death which of force must follow after this present death separating the soule from the bodie except you haue the skill in Grammar to make future goe before present How Christ in coniunction with vs and compassion on vs might feare euerlasting death for vs as imminent ouer vs and yet speake in his owne name I will in place conuenient more largely declare when I come to Christes complaint on the crosse till which time I pray the Reader to haue patience least I should be forced often to prooue and repeat one and the same thing Touching the other limitation that Christ might feare that is warâ—…ly and religiously shunne the cuppe of eternall malediction and intentiuely pray against it as well in respect of himselfe as of vs you blunder out a proposition which in Christes cause is not so true as you take it to be n Pa. 99. li. 13. He could not you say intentiuely pray against Christs manhood prâ—…ied for that with all 〈◊〉 which his person by rigâ—…t might haue chalenâ—…ed that which he perfectly knew could by no meanes come neere him By this rule Christ should pray for nothing touching himselfe for Christ perfectly knew all that God had most certainly decreed towards him and chiefly Gods resolute and reuealed counsels for his glory What need then was there Christ should pray for any such thing since he perfectly knew what should come to passe and by the power of his person was fully able to dispose of heauen and hell life and death both present and eternall His owne words are 〈◊〉 Whatsoeuer things the Father doth the same things 〈◊〉 Iohn 5. doth the Sonne also for likewise as the Father raiseth vp the dead and quickeneth them so the Sonne quickeneth whom he will The Father iudgeth no man but hath committed all iudgement to the Sonne that all men should honour the Sonne as they honour the Father and hath giuen him power also to execute iudgement in that he is the Sonne of man Christ perfectly knew that p Eâ—…a 42. 49 he should be giuen for a light of the Gentils Did he not therefore aske it according to Dauids prophesie q Psal 2. Aske of me and I will giue thee the Gentils for thine inheritance Christ neither had nor could haue any doubt of his glorification Did he not therefore pray r Iohn 17. Now Father glorifie me with thine owne selfe with the glory which I had with thee before the world was Was not Christ most assured that he should s Esa. 53. diuide the spoiles of the mightie and be a t Hose 13. death vnto death and a destruction vnto hell and yet Dauid applieth these prayers vnto him u Psal. 22. Deliuer my soule from the sword my desolate soule from the power of the dogge Saue me from the lions mouth and heare mee from the hornes of the vnicorne Though therefore by the right of his power he might haâ—…e sayd in all things as he did in some x Matth. 8. I will be thou cleane and againe y Iohn 17. Father I will that they which thou hast giuen me be with me euen where I am that they may behold my glory yet to demonstrate the wonderfull vertue of his obedience and humilitie he suffered his humane nature humbly to pray for that which his person could of it selfe performe and in all things referred himselfe to his Fathers will though he also sayd to his Father All thine are mine and I am glorified in them and all things that the Father hath are mine Then might Christ in the Garden pray that the cuppe of eternall malediction deserued by our sinnes might passe from him and his though he submitted himselfe and his members to drinke of the cuppe of Gods wrath so much as should please his heauenly Father which he was assured in regard of his prayer should be no more than he and his should well endure z Defenc. pag. 99 li. 16. All this is nothing else in effect then your first cause his submission to Gods maiestie sitting in iudgement wherefore you might haue lessened your number and so your answer to this might haue beene the same which is made to your foremost Your conceite is not so currant that I should pare my number for your pleasure Christ himselfe saith a Matth. 22. On these two Commandements thou shalt loue the Lord thy God with all thine heart with all thy soule and with all thy minde and thy neighbour as thy selfe hangeth the whole Law and the Prophets Were therefore then the tenne Commandements which God gaue to Moses superfluous because they might be reuoked to two generall contents speciall parts and duties are profitablie deliuered so long as they be any way distinguished notwithstanding they may be comprised in fewer but more generall branches The worke of our Redemption was the summe of all that Christ did said or suffered heere on earth shall we therefore reiect the rest of the Gospell because the substance thereof may be expressed in a word or twaine these you will say are not distinct in matter but in wordes Who told you so The trembling at Gods glorie when it was reuealed to mans infirmitie the honouring Feare
power that in all as well sufferings as doings he might be obedient and yet righteous And had they heard such a ghest as you are tell them a tale of Gods t Defenc. pag. 106. li. 38. diuine power wringing out of Christes body a bloudy sweat they would haue rung you another manner of Peale For what is wringing but violent forcing and what is violence but inuoluntary constraint which is any thing rather then obedience and so where the Apostle professeth of Christ that he was obedient euen vnto death you haue spied out that Christes bloudy sweat was WRVNG from him and so no part of his willing and free submission and obedience vnto God u Defenc. pag. 107. li. 12. Where they say Nec infirmitas quod potestas gessit that prooueth the cleane contrarie for ideo infirmitas quia potestas gessit For the working of his power in him argueth the suffering of his infirmity The power of God is perfited in infirmity If you would ascribe neither Religion nor learning to two such Pillars of Christes Church as Hilarie and Austen were you should at least leaue them common in sight and vnderstanding of their owne wordes It is enough for a man of your sise to lacke learning trueth and sense They were very learned and wise or els the whole Church that hath hitherto esteemed and receaued them for such was much deceaued But you that haue found a new faith in the Scriptures no maruaile if you catch the fathers with contrarieties which others neuer drempt of The ground of their wordes is the cleare rule of reason nature and trueth confirmed in heauen earth and hell that contraries in one and the same subiect time and respect doe exclude one another As if any thing be cold it is not hoate if it be drie it is not moist if it be straight it is not crooked and so if it be weake it is not strong Hence they conclude if there could be in Christ no compulsion to feare and sorow then was there election if no necessity then liberty and consequently if no preualence of corruption against his fullnesse of trueth and grace then it was not infirmity that subiected him to these violent and painfull affections but it was his will and power that raised and restrained them in him selfe Against this what saith our master of new maximes nay it was therefore infirmitie because power did it This indeed crosteth their sayings but withall it crosseth all trueth if you take their wordes as they spake them But you meane as your marginer noteth therefore there was infirmity because x Defenc pag. 107. ad marginem li. 3. there was power He can neuer shoot amisse that neuer offreth to any marke Where was there infirmity where was there power in the person of Christ belike Hilary and Austen did not know that Christ was God and man and had in his person both the infinite power of God and the voluntarie weaknesse of man that being compared with his Godhead might well be called infirmity as the Apostle saiâ—…th Christ was crucisied concerning his infirmity that is in the weaknesse of his flesh but yet that voluntary weaknesse of God or in God the sonne was stronger then all the power of men or of Diuels whom his manhood spoiled and caried captiues with an open triumphe This is not their meaning to say that Christ had no infirme part in his person compared with his diuine power that is no manhood but only his Godhead and therefore your reply to that purpose is as senselesse as it is needlesse Where Christes diuine power did punish there his humane infirmity did suffer This is your wresting of their wordes against their meaning to bring them to your compasse but this is no part of their speech That weaknesse is patient where power is agent this may be but what is that to their words which are very true without your punishing power Hilarie sayth y Hilar. de Trinitate li. 10. To sweat bloud is against nature and so not a weaknesse in nature Since then it was aboue nature to sweat bloud he ascribeth it to Christes will and power performing that in his bodie which nature could not do z Ibidem Quis rogo furor est repudiata doctrinae Apostolicae fide mutare sensum religionis totum hoc ad imbecillitatem contumeliam rapere naturae quod volunt as est sacramentum quod potest as est siducia triumphus What madnesse is this here you Sir Defender how he requiteth you for peruerting the trueth of his words by refusing the faith of the Apostles doctrine to change the sense of religion and to impute all that to the imbccillitie and contumelie of Christes nature which was his will and a mysterie yea power considence and victory And againe lest you should thinke he wanted reason for his speech a Ibidem Quarogo side naturaliter infirmus fuisse defenditur cui naturale fuit omnem human arum infirmitatum inhibere naturam Forte stulta atque impia peruersitate hinc infirmae in â—…o naturae presumitur assertio quia trist is sit anima eius vsque ad mortem With what faith I aske is Christ assirmed to be naturally weake to whom it was naturall to heale all mans infirmities Happely by a foolish and wicked peeuishnesse he is therefore presumed to be of a weake nature because his soule was sorrowfull vnto death This ground of his speech is short but sure except you will deride Christ and say b Luke 4. Physician heale thy selfe or blaspheme him with the Pharises and say as they sayd c Matth. 27. He saued others he can not saue himselfe It was then in Christ not want of power to represse these passions or repell these infirmities that subiected himselfe vnto them it was his owne willing obedience that would taste them and power that did guide them lest they should breake into the distemper and excesse of our corrupt nature The power of God you say is perfected in infirmitie Those words I trust were not spoken of Christ and howsoeuer in some sort they may be verified of Christ yet is there no comparison betwixt our naturall infirmitie and his fulnesse of trueth and grace d Esa. 11. The spirit of counsell and trueth rested on him e Iohn 3. without measure wee wholly want it till Gods power in some degree confirme our infirmitie Againe infirmitie in these words doth signifie outward afflictions and miseries for so the Apostle there expoundeth it f 2. Cotin 12. vers 10. Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities in reproches in necessities in persecutions for when I am outwardly weake then I am inwardly strong So that those words can not rightly be referred to inward infirmitie and might they yet Christes gifts and graces of the Holy Ghost were not only farre aboue Pauls but in the greatest degree that any creature might haue them and
dereliction beseemeth the time place person and cause of Christ our ransome payer and purchaser of saluation with the price of his owne most direfull paines not any other farre fet or hardly applied and strangely deuised by the braines of men As iâ—… trueth all those other senses hereof are which you rather embrace Somewhat it was you mustered foure places of Scripture so wisely chosen and well becomming your cause before you would offer to determine the matter and now puft vp with pure pride and prickt on with singular disdaine you censure the whole Church of Christ and the chiefe lights and leaders thereof I still except the Apostles as peruerters of the Scriptures traducing their expositions as farre fet hardly applied and strangely deuised by the braines of men But if you so much despise their learning religion and iudgements who were Gods blessed instruments to maintaine his trueth against all heresies and his Church against all Schismaticks and thinke your braines to be more than the braines of a man take heed lest your Reader begin to suspect you haue the braines of some other kinde If Athanasius Hilarie Chrysostome Basil Cyrill Epiphanius Ierome Ambrose Augustine Origen Tertullian and Leo may not be thought in the verdict of any wise or sober man as likely to vnderstand the sense of Christes words on the crosse as your humorous and presumptuous shall I say braine which you so much abase in others or head without braine then I must confesse my fault who loue not to leane to mine owne wit in cases of faith but rather preferre the religious and laborious inquiries of others chiefly of learned and ancient Fathers where it concerneth matters of saluation and the grounds of Christian religion which they carefully receiued and faithfully deliuered to Gods people so many hundred yeeres before we were borne And what maâ—…uell you be so bolde with the braines of men as you terme it when you take vpon you to ouerrule the words of the Holy Ghost For where in the sacred Scriptures the bloud of Christ shed for vs is recorded to be the true price of our redemption you controlling as well the Apostles as the Fathers tell vs here that Christ o Pa. 108. li. 23. purchased our saluation with the price of his most direfull paines where by direfull paines you meane hell paines that your speech in this case may be as new as your faith Belike then in your conceit Peter Paul and Iohn though Christes Apostles were neuer well Catechised nor instructed in their faith since they affirme p 1. Pet. 1. we were redeemed by the precious bloud of Christ and q Ephes. 1. we haue redemption in Christ through his bloud and Christ r Reuel 5. by his bloud redeemed vs vnto God which lesson you like not and therefore you say our saluation was purchased with the price of Christes direfull paines that is of hell paines suffered in the soule of Christ which hath no bloud vnlesse you can as easily deuise new bloud for Christes soule as you haue done a new hell for Christs sufferings Till you so do giue me and other Christians leaue to thinke that the second death which you dreame of did neither beseeme the time place person nor cause of Christ our Redeemer and therefore his words on the crosse could haue no such reference as you haue riddled in this place s Defenc. pag. 108. li. 27. Your expositions are sixe in number the first is that when Christ on the crosse cried out My God my God why hast thou forsaken me by this word ME he should meane his Church for which you haue no reason in the world but the bare names of Austen Leo Athanasius The moe the senses may be of these words and euery of them agreeing with Christian pietie as I professed of them the lesse soundnesse is in your conclusion that would inferre vpon a strange and needlesse sense of these words your paines of the damned to be then suffered in the soule of Christ. And in denying your direfull exposition of Christes words I haue all the Fathers of Christes Church for 1400 yeeres of the same opinion with me And if your chiefe and capitall proofes were such newes to them what thinke you was the rest of your new faith They are sixe in number you say and they all can not stand together You are nimble in trifles and in substance no bodie Nor I nor any man liuing may take vpon vs to determine which shall be the meaning of Christes words when the words themselues admit and allow manie senses In this very case the persons and the parts forsaken the graces and degrees wherein and how farre that dereliction might extend receiue diuers opinions and though they be different they are not repugnant the one to the other And yet it is no newes in many places of holy Scripture by reason of the different or repugnant significations of the words circumstances of the sentence and degrees of extension and intension in many things to finde contrarie iudgements of men euen of the same words and things in holy writ Neither doe diuers expositions disgrace the word of God so long as they containe nothing repugnant to the text it selfe in that or any other place but shew rather the depth of Gods wisedome which incloseth many things in few words and often passeth the reach and search of mans wit But you that carpe at euery thing besides your owne conceits would faine make your Reader beleeue that siue fingers and one hand ten toes and two feet can not stand together For the matter it selfe as dereliction is confessed on all sides because it is mentioned in the words of Christ so it may be questioned of what persons to what part and in what things Christ conceined and intended that for saking of which he spake For as God is sayd in the Scriptures to be present with vs diuers wayes and to diuers effects namely when he lightneth strengtheneth and inwardly guideth vs with the grace of his spirit or outwardly blesseth our wayes and heareth and helpeth vs in time of trouble so when he withdraweth or with holdeth any of these things from vs whether it be his helpe his blessing or his grace he is sayd to depart and to forsake vs. Now if we take forsaking in Christes words for the losing or lacking of Gods What forsaking could not be found in Christ. fauour grace or spirit it was not possible that any such forsaking should at any time be found in Christ our head though the members of Christ do all well deserue to be depriued of all these things and were depriued of them till by Christ they were restored Since then this kinde of forsaking could neuer be verified of Christes person but only of his members and he suffered for vs t Ephes. 2. 16. to reconcile vs to God by his Crosse these words of Christ on the Crosse some learned Fathers haue expounded to
for saken of God whose cause to reconcile them 〈◊〉 then vndertookest and as a most skillfull Patron for seruants thou didest not disdaine to take the person of a seruant and SO FARRE thou didst compassionate the weake that thou wast neither afraid nor ashamed to be crucified and to dy leauing for a time thine owne higth and emptying the maiesty of thy glory that the dispersed might returne and the forsaken might take breath or comfort The forsaking which Cyprian here describeth in Christ consisteth in leauing of his diuine power and glory for a time and in abasing himselfe SO FARRE as to dy the death of the Crosse for their sakes but no farder And these wordes he saith Christ would haue vnderstoode to be a cause of their Reconciliation to God who had deserued for their sinnes to be forsaken of God and therefore he addeth presently f 〈◊〉 I consider thee Lord on that crosse where thou seemedst without helpe or forsaken how with an Emperiall power thou didst send the theefe before to thy kingdome by assuming of whom it is manifest how much thou hadst preuailed for those that were forsaken You would faine so wrest Cyprians wordes that he should say Christ vndertooke our cause and no more but he withall affirmeth that Christ tooke vpon him our person and that his carefull complaint were the wordes of his beloued If the wordes were spoken as well in our person as in our cause then we were indeed forsaken and Christ by laying downe his glorie for a time and obeying his fathers will did by those wordes declare that he reconciled vs to God when we were forsaken and in signe thereof with full power made the theefe partaker of his kingdome that had deserued and was condemned to die the death of a for lorne and forsaken malefactour g Defenc. pag. 109. li. 2. If you thincke they ment that Christ spake this by some strange metonimy naming himselfe but meaning his Church that can haue no good sense I shall not need to tell you The first sense of 〈◊〉 complaint on the Crosse. what I thinke let them speake themselues what they ment and when you haue heard their meaning out of their owne wordes you shall see how much you abused Cyprian to make him speake that he neuerment It is plaine enough which Athanasius saith h Athanaâ—…ius de incarnatione Christi Christ spake those wordes in our person for he was neuer forsaken of God and Austen is as euident i August epist. 120. why disdaine we to heare the voice of the body by the mouth of the head to me that is to my body my church and my litle ones So was it said why hast thou forsaken me euen as it was said he that receaueth you receaueth me No doubt we were in those wordes and the head did speake for his body And likewise Leo k Leo Serm. 16. de Pâ—…ss Dom. Christ spake those wordes in the voice of his Redeemed Neither are they alone in this opinion Theodoret satith l Theodoret. iâ—… Psalm 21. because Christ was the head of mans nature he speaketh for the whole nature of man So Bede m 〈◊〉 a in Psal. 21. Quare dereliquistime idestmeos ideo scilicet quia longè te fecerunt peccata esse à salute mea id est meorum Hec verbaplane innuunt caput non in persona sua hic loqui Quomodo enim derelictus vellonge à salute factus posset esse ille Why hast thou forsaken me that is mine because sinne did put thee farre from sauing me that is mine These words do plainly prooue that the head doth not here speake in his owne person For how could he possiblely be forsaken or remooued from saluation And Euthymius n 〈◊〉 in Psal. 21. The Lord taketh vnto him the person of mans nature as lincked to him and saith why hast thou forsaken me now a man that is the whole nature of man And Damascene o 〈◊〉 Orthodoxe fidei li. 3. ca. 24. Christ was neuer forsaken of his owne Godhead but we were those that were forsaken and despised Wherefore appropriating our person he praied in that sort And expressing what it is to appropriate or assume an others person he saith As when a man doth put on an others person of piety or charitic and in his steed vseth speach for him 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which agreeth not vnto himselfe If then we take dereliction for the want of Gods fauour spirit and grace as these Fathers doe it is euident Christ could not so be forsaken and consequently these wordes in that sense which is proper to the Children of Gods wrath could not agree to the person of Christ though it were true in his members that they by nature were forsaken and destitute of grace till he reconciled them to God and diffused his spirite into their harts to make them partakeâ—…s of his holinesse And as for the strangenesse of the metonimy count you that strange which Christ vseth in one Chapter more then thirty times and find you no strangenesse in your conceits which are no where throughout the Scriptures either expressed or so much as coherent with the continuall speach and plaine rules of the Scriptures p Defenc. pag. 109. li. 5. That can haue no good sense For how can it be that we were forsaken of God when Christ was on the Crosse Nay euen then and there we were purchased vnto God not forsaken by God Doth any man vse when he would make reasons for his opinion to refuâ—…e himselfe as you doe we were purchased you say on the Crosse vnto God you must adde by the bloud of his sonne which was also God for that Saint Paul in the plâ—…ce which you cite nameth as the true and right price of this purchase God purchased his Church with his owne bloud and not by the direfull paines of hell as your braine hath lately broched Now if we were purchased on the Crosse then till we were purchased we were enstranged from God and so forsaken of him And what hindreth this complaint or prayer of Christs to beare witnesse that we were now reconciled and purchased vnto God which before were forsaken and separated from God For those words doe not imply that we still continued forsaken but that formerly without Christ we were vtterly forsaken and now by him restored to fauour And the goodnesse of this sense I doe not thinke but any man of meane capacitie will soone conceaue and iudge it more fruitfull for vs to know that by Christs mediation and oblation on the crosse we are now no longer strangers vnto God nor forsaken of him as before we were for our sinnes then that Christ suffered the direfull and infernall paines and death of the damned in his Soule before we could be freed from our sinnes For of the first there can be no question and of the second you neither haue nor euer shall be able to bring one
for the manhood of Christ to say my God my God why hast thou so long forsaken me without any publike signe or shew that thou louest and fauourest me whom this nation had so much wronged and blasphemed or is it of late become so shamefull a thing with you that Christ should complaine he was forsaken and left in the hands of his persuers without help or ease both old and new writers euen of the best learned that haue been in Christs Church haue thought it no shame for Christ in that very respect so to speake o Hieronym in Matth ca. 27. Maruaile not saith Ierom at Christes complaint of being forsaken when thou seest the scandall of his crosse p 〈◊〉 de fide li. 2. ca. 3. He speaketh as a man saith Ambrose which was no shame for him to doe because being in danger we thinke our selues forsaken of God The same wordes q 〈◊〉 in Mar. ca. 14. Bede r 〈◊〉 in 〈◊〉 ca. 27. Rabanus and r 〈◊〉 in 〈◊〉 ca. 27. Aquinas repeat and follow Theodoret saith Christ s 〈◊〉 in 〈◊〉 21. calleth that a dereliction which was a permission of the diuinity that the humanity should suffer Christe would endure saieth Austen this vnto death in the sight of his enemies that they might take him as one forsaken Lyra. u 〈◊〉 Mat. ca 27. Dixit 〈◊〉 derclictum a deo 〈◊〉 quia dimittebat cum in manibus occidentium Christ saith he was forsaken of God his father because he was left in the hands of those that slew him And so our new writers August epist. 120 x 〈◊〉 in Mat. ca. 27. Hic questus est se in manibus impiorum adomnem ipsorvm libidinem a patre derelictum Christ heere complained saith Bucer that he was forsaken of his father or left in the 〈◊〉 of the wicked to endure all their rage Bullinger y Bullingerus in Matth. ca. 27. Derelinquere siue deserere in 〈◊〉 est permittere To forsake or leaue in Christes wordes on the Crosse is to permit So that this was Christs meaning why doest thou suffer me to be thus afflicted why doest thou permit these things to mine enemies when wilt thou deliuer me Munster z Munsterus in Psalm 21. haec Christi verbanon impatientiam aliquam aut diffiden̄tiam prae se ferunt c these words of Christ My God my God why hast thou forsaken mee shew no impatience or diffidence but declare that he was a true man and that he had truely suffered And what if as some learned Fathers conceaue Christ did not grieuously complaine in those wordes that he was forsaken but thereby led his enemies to looke and search in the Psalmes Prophets for the cause why the messias should be so forsaken deliuered into the hands of sinners as they saw he was a August epist. 120. Christ doth not say saith Austen my God my God why hast thou forsaken me sed causum commonuit requirendam cum addidit vt quid dereliquisti me id est propter quid quam ob causam but he admonished the cause to be searched when he added why hast thou forsaken me that is to what end and for what cause for truely there was a cause and that no small cause why God would not deliuer Christ from the handes of the Iewes but leaue him in the power of his persecutors till he died Leo likewise b Leo de Passione 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 17. Therefore Christ cried with a loud voice why hast thou forsaken me that he might make it knowen to all for what cause he ought not to be deliuered nor defended sed saeuientium manibus derelinqui but to be left in the hands of his pursuers which was to be made the Sauiour of the world and the Redeemer of all men non per miseriam sed per misericordiam non amissione auxilij sed definitione moriendi not by any miserable necessitie but of mercie not for lacke of helpe but of purpose to die for vs Whether then Christs meaning in those wordes if we apply them to his owne person were to hasten the time of his death which he knew was at hand and should bring him case of his excessiue How many meanings 〈◊〉 words on the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 haue paines or to mooue his father to demonstrate by those signes which followed what fauour and affection he bare to the person of his sonne though for our sakes he suffered him thus to be vsed or to teach his persecutors that there was a cause which they knew not why himselfe being their messias should die this death on the crosse or last whether his manhood conformed it selfe to the desires and grones of his church and members whom the Prophets teach in this wise to pray when they were oppressed with any great calamity or misery none of these waies I say are the wordes of Christ on the crosse chalengeable but they stand well with the piety patience confidence and expectance that were in Christ and haue better foundation in the sacred Scriptures then your paines of the damned or your second death to be then and there suffered in the soule of Christ. c Defenc. pag. 110. li. 7. The bare names againe of Austen Ambrose Ierom doe here likewise no good this is but a weake kind of reasoning for so learned a Diuine as you are I like better this kind of weakenesse in matters of faith to haue the consent of the learned and auncient fathers for that I teach then your kind of strength which is to be so stiffe in your priuate conceits that you will delude the Scriptures with your figures and deride the fathers as seely fooles not vnderstanding the first principles of Religion rather then you will forgoe the least of your fansies If you light on any Reader of the same mind let him know that the choice wil be hard for him to make whether all the fathers in Christes Church did erre in the chiefe grounds of their faith or he himselfe be out of the trueth If Christian Religion were not since Christes time before our age this is a greater forsaking of Christ then any was on the Crosse. For then hath God forgotten all his purposes and promises so often mentioned in the Prophets and confirmed to Christ if there were neuer Church of Christ since the Apostles death till our dayes And he that is of that humour it skilleth not greatly of what side he be for certainly he can be no member of Christs Church that reiecteth all persons places and ages before his birth as none of Christs I wish no wise nor sober Reader so farre to venture his soule If then to the Primatiue Church of Christ next after the Apostles we yeeld but ordinary knowledge of the Christian faith we may not take from so many learned fathers and Pastours as God hath for so many hundred yeares adorned his Church withall the common vnderstanding of their Catechisme and
you mightily mistake mistranslate yet make they nothing for you but against you directly Writing against Praxeas that denied the Father and the Sonne to be two distinct persons and taught that the Father became sonne to himselfe l 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ca. 2. and was made man and crucisied after many proofes to shew the person of the sonne to be different from the person of the father he citeth those words of Christ on the crosse My God my God why hast thou forsaken me and saith m Ibid. ca. 30. hâ—…c vox carnis animae idest hominis non sermonis nec spiritus id est Dei propterea emissa est vt impassibilem Deum ostenderet qui sic filium dereliquit dum hominem eius trâ—…didit in mortem Caeterum non reliquit Pater Filium in cuius manibus Filius spiritum suum posuit Denique posuit statim obijt Spiritu enim manente in carne caro omnino mori non potest Ita relinqui a Patre fuit mori filio This voice of the flesh and soule that is of the man not of the word nor of the spirit that is not of God was therefore spoken to shew that God is impassible who so left his sonne whiles he deliuered his manhood to death Yet the Father did not altogether forsake the sonne into whose hands the sonne breathed out his spirit For he breathed it out and straighâ—…way died Whiles the spirit remained in the flesh the flesh could not die at all So that to be forsaken of the Father was in the sonne to die Here are the words of Tertullian in order as they stand Where it is euident that he affirmeth no death nor forsaking in Christ but only that when the spirit left the body His words are plaine The Father forsocke not the sonne into whose hands the sonne deposed his spirit For he laid it downe and died So to be forsaken of the Father was this for the sonne to die by laying downe his spirit or soule as before he prooueth Christ did Then suffered Christ no death of the soule since he died not till he breathed out his spirit into his fathers hands and other forsaking the sonne felt none then so to die by the separation of his soule from his body Now touching the voice of the soule and the flesh whereof Tertullian speaketh What forsaking 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 of either he maketh three parts in man as the Apostle doth Thess 1 5. verse 23. the spirit the soule and the body and then the soule noteth the operations of life and sense which were to cease for the time by death or els he affirmeth this voice came from both soule and body because the soule was to be separated from her body by death as well as the body to be left dead both which are a kind of forsaking Other death he nameth none here then to die by breathing out the spirit And so long as the spirit abideth in the flesh the flesh he saith cannot die at all Christ therefore endured no death whiles his spirit did abide in his body and consequently no death of the soule and when he breathed out his spirit he straightway died which was the forsaking that he complained of in those words So that all your collections heere out of Tertullian are your additions to Tertullian and not so much as one of them to be found or fet from his text He speaketh not a word that Christ n Defenc. pag. suffered in both these parts from his father nor that this death or forsaking o li. 15. was ment of the flesh and of the 1 12. li. 20. soule as you falsly translate him And as for Tertullians confirming that p li. 26. heresie of Christes being no true naturall man except Christ suffered q li. 23. the stroke of Gods hand in his soule as the proper vengcance of sinne this is your blinde deuice absurdly foisted into Tertullian without any word or letter sounding that way r Defenc. pag. 112. li. 31. This dereliction of which he speaketh is more 〈◊〉 the separation of the soule and bodie euen the separation of the deitie from the whole manhood which is the death of the soule I speake nothing here but the Fathers words yea the Scriptures Your setting vnto Tertullian Tertullian nameth no death but of Christes bodie your owne sense is an impudent attempt and the weakest argument that can be when you tell vs he meaneth so though he speake not one word touching the death of the soule but as exactly as he can or should nameth the death of the bodie by this that he sayth Denique spiritum posuit statim obijt Spiritu enim manente in carne caro omnino mori non potest Christ layd downe his spirit and straightway died For whiles the spirit remained in the flesh the flesh could not die at all What was it to lay downe his spirit into his fathers hands as the Scripture speaketh of Christ on the crosse but to die the death of the body Those very words Tertullian here citeth and vseth and thereby prooueth the Father had not inwardly forsaken the sonne since the sonne by the manifest words of himselfe reported in the Euangelist commended and yeelded his spirit to his fathers hands So that against the death of the soule Tertullians words are pregnant for how did the soule die that was commended into Gods hands and other death Tertullian nameth nor meaneth none but only this Denique spiritum posuit statim obijt Christ laied downe his spirit into his fathers hands and straightway died As for your speaking nothing heere but the fathers and the Scriptures words beware you take not vp the Diuels trade to keepe their words and peruert their sense It is no great mastery to abuse mens words yea the word of God which all Hereticks haue euer drawen to their owne false and wicked purposes s Defenc. pag. 112. li. 34. Your owne place of Epiphanius saith that now his deity departed from his manhood So saith your owne Hilarie also Corporis vox contestata recedentis a se Dei dissidium So saith Ambrose clamauit homo diuinitat is separatione moriturus The man Christ did crie being about to die by the separation of his Godhead You alleage three places to this purpose and either corrupt or peruert all three most apparantly â—…piphanius saith that Christs deity TOGETHER WITH THE SOVLE departed from his sacred body which is as plaine a description of bodily death as may be vttered You leaue out the words TOGETHER WITH THE SOVLE as crossing your course and turne the body into the soule meaning by this corruption to load Epiphanius with a sense cleane contrarie to his owne Hilaries words spoken of Christes body you enlarge to the whole manhood of Christ and thence conclude directly against Hilaries meaning and words that the deity departed from both where as Hilarie professeth of Christ t Hilarius
is euident as I haue shewed out of Galen a sufficient witnesse of naturall effects and defects that men throughly amazed with feare neither speake nor doe any thing yea no man is so very a stranger to nature but he knoweth that astonishment in the highest degree hindreth both sense and motion outward and inward And therfore when you put our Sauiour into the p Ibid. li. 26. extreamest and most violent degree of amazednesse that might be and into farre greater astonishment then is to be seene in any man els that euer was or shal be I report me to the Christian Reader that hath read or seene any thing whether by this bold and violent imagination of yours you doe not take from Christ the vse of bodily sense motion and speach and euen of vnderstanding and memory The Scripture noteth of the ghest which wanted his wedding garment that when he was chalenged for it he q Matth. 22. was speachlesse When Saul heard the threats of him that appeared in the person of Samuel He r 1. Sam. 28. sodainely fell all along on the earth as sore afraid because of the words When Saint Iohn saw the sight of the sonne of God in his glory s Râ—…u 1. v. 17. He fell at his feet as dead for very feare So that feare may so farre amaze men as to take from them speach strength and all vse of life that they may lie euen as dead for the time which whether it agrâ—…e to our Sauiour in the garden I make any man iudge that euer read or heard that part of the Gospell t Defenc. pag. 128. li. 35. For my life I cannot answere this that followeth The suffering of hell paines which astonish and confound all the powers of the soule and senses of the body neither was nor could be meritorious with God I deny this assumption Not only all Christs paines were meritorious but euen all his infirmities also his wearinesse his hunger his sleep and so his astonishment and amazednesse The sleightnesse of your answere doth prooue that which I said to be truâ—…r then you are ware of For though diminution of strength as in wearinesse affliction of nature as in hunger and ligation of sense as in sleepe yea if you will priuation of life as in death were meritorious in Christ because the person that was God and man submitted himselfe to these infirmities of our nature which no way peruerted nor hindered the inward powers or actions of Christes humane soule yet that is no proofe that such impressions as depriue the soule of Christ of her proper and essentiall operations by confounding Reason vnderstanding will and memory should be meritorious because they all confound the very instruments of grace in the soule of Christ which are requisite vnto merit For though the person in Christ which by nature did owe no obedience by reason it had an equality with God was the chiefe fountaine of all Christs merits which could not haue infinite price and valew but that he was infinite and no way bound who wrought them by his humane nature yet the instruments of merit in Christs manhood were his soule and his body and chiefly his soule by her vnderstanding and will alwaies pâ—…rfectly knowing absolutely liking and constantly performing by the presence and power of Gods spirit those things which were most pleasing to God So that the paines and infirmities which you suppose in Christ if they did confound and astonish all the powers of Christs soule and senses of his body For so are the words of your assertion and my assumption they neither were nor could be meritorious In sleepe the senses of Christs body rested which he could haue strengthened by power without sleepe but that he willingly submitted himselfe to those infirmities of our nature for obedience to his Fathers will yet euen then was the soule of Christ left free to diuine cogitations and visions which could not want in the soule of Christ hauing the full and perpetuall possession and fruition of Gods grace and trueth though he would want the power and glory prouided for him till Gods appointed time Christs sleepe then had no agreement with your late deuised confusion of all the powers of Christes soule yea the praiers speaches and actions of Christ in the garden if you then confound in him all vnderstanding will and memory which are the powers of Christs soule must by your doctrine be full of vanity and rather distractions thâ—…n religious and humane actions as not proceeding from the direction of grace apprehension of mind and submission of will but from a confusion of all these which no Christian man can tell what to make of And therefore you must either recall the confufion of all the powers of Christs soule which you say was the extreamest and most violent that might be or worse consequents will follow vpon these desperate and false amplifications then you yet see For take once from Christes soule his humane vnderstanding and will and place nothing but confusion in his whole humanity or as your words are all confusion in his whole humanity both in all the powers of his soule and senses of his body and tell me what patience obedience or sanctity could be left where neither vnderstanding will not memory were but all confounded in the extreamest manner that might be u Defenc. pag. 129. li. If it seeme a hard phrase which in my former Treatise I vsed saying Christ at this instant became forgetfull of that which before he knew my meaning is and so still I speake now he remembred not he considered not Which many times we vse to name forgetting but indeed strictly and properly it is not remembring If you looke well to it you haue harder phrases both in your defence and Treatise then Christ to be forgetfull of himselfe Which if you reuoke not or plainly excuse not rather by your folly not vnderstanding the force of them then standing to iustifie them they will prooue open impiety I haue so often repeated them that I am weary of so vnsauery words And as foâ—… proofes that Christ should be thus all confounded in all the powers and senses of body and soule you be so vsed to wilfull assertions depending only on your secret conceits that you doe not thinke your selfe bound to prooue that you say or to say no more in Christian Religion then you can prooue For what one signe or step of this great and generall confusion in the soule of Christ doe the Scriptures mention that you should thus racke it to the extreamest highest degree that euer was shall or might be They be well holpen vp that haue such an heady presumer and affirmer as you are to fashion their faiths after your vnaduised and inconsiderate fansies But God send you his grace to wax soberer which is all the harme I wish you though I like none of your pangs to be the principles of my faith x Defenc. pag.
for That the death of the soule or body should haue dominion ouer him was simply impossible and Christ 〈◊〉 knew so much as your owne words yeeld Then neither did he nor could he pray by your positions for any such thing and consequently God did not heare him in those things for which he praied not And so your two waies of hearing and deliuering Christ your selfe by your owne doctrine ouerthrow rather as iests then iust deliuerances And then doth my sequell persue you more strongly then before that Christ must be freed from suffering that he feared not by suffering it since he neuer doubted and so neuer praied by your diuinity to be sustained in it nor after suffering to be freed from it p Defenc. pag. 132. li. 15. In another place you seeme to obserue a point both strange and very contrary to your selfe in saying feare is more intolerable in Christ then doubting when you haue so often and so earnestly affirmed that Christ feared for feare became astonished To him that neuer read leafe nor line of holy Scripture this may make some iolly shew but to him that can distinguish white from blacke it will appeare to be rather an ignorant conceit in you then a repugnant speach in me A naturall feare of euill is incident to all mens natures by Gods ordinance in his first creating vs and so common to Christs manhood with all men be they good or bad For therefore did God threaten death to Adam if he disobeyed that both the loue of God enioied and feare of euill if he transgressed might restraine him from sinne A religious feare of Gods greatnesse and in cause of committing or suffering for sinne the trembling at the power of his wrath is proper to the godly wherein Christ might and did communicate with them as being to beare the punishment of our sinne though he were free from all sinne A distrustfull feare which quencheth faith and excludeth hope is common to all the wicked and therein Christ might not concurre with them least he conioined with them in siâ—…ne The first was tolerable the second was commendable in Christ the third was neither Of this third kind of feare I speake when I say feare is more 〈◊〉 in Christ then doubting But perhaps you could not discerne so much because my speach was darâ—…e I am content to be tried by the Reader whether any man might mistake my words euen there where you stumble at them but he that would wilfully peruert them My words stand thus In that perfect persuasion knowledge and assurance of Gods euerlasting q Sermo pa. 118. li. 22. purpose fauour and loue towards him that he should be the Sauiour of the world if doubting be not tolerable how enexcusable is feare and terror as if he were for saken of God Doâ—… I heere speake of all kinds of feares or of that only whereby Christ should feare least Gods purpose promise and loue towards him might faile my illation in that very page is this The soule of Christ must therefore be farre from fearing or doubting least r Ibid. li. 32. God would change his mind recall his word frustrate his promise and violate his oâ—…th for these are blasphemies against God in the highest degree He must be more then blind which doth not see what kind of feare I exclude from Christ but you did cunningly to peruert my words when you could not resist my reasons For all your apprehensions of Gods proper wrath and fierie indignation which you so much proclaime if you direct them to the person of Christ as if he conceaued feared or doubted any change or decrease of Gods fauour and loue towards him or his sacrifice then are they these verie feares which heere I banish from Christ as vtterly blasphemous It was therefore some skill to shift of these words with a slanderous and false crimination least they should make you breath before you were disburdened of them if you toke them rightly s Defenc. pag. 132. li. 19. You seeke a weake aduantage in that I said eisaekonstheis may seeme to shew that Christ was heard being in that which he was saued from You see I chalenge no certaine but a seeming reason from that word In the maine ground of our saluation and redemption which are most certaine in the Scriptures to impugne the doctrine there deliuered with seeming reasons is the guise of him that would seeme a good Christian but is none Indeed you haue beset your selfe in your defence with store of seemings as I could specifie the places and points if it were to this purpose and I thinke your whole defence hath nothing in it but your seemings you vse therein so few either authorities or reasons other then your owne conceits and assertions But vpon these seemings you set pestilent positions slanderous imputations and false conclusions as euen here you both resolue that Christ was in your hell paines and you presume so to translate the word eisakonstheis he was heard being in it as if that were the true force of the Apostles words But your selfe maketh a stranger conclusion ergo the actiue 〈◊〉 Treat pag. 63. li. 26. referred to God importeth that God being in the same pains did heare him Yet such a conclusion as your collection cannot auoid For where Christ was heard God did heare the passiue in Christ noteth the actiue to be truely affirmed of God that he did heare Christ. If then that word as you boldly with your seeming reason and false translation affirme import being in the paines of hell it must so signifie as well in the actiue referred to God as in the passiue applied to Christ. If you be now ashamed to heare of these vnseeming and vnsauery reasons blot them out of your owne booke and bestow your time better hereafter u Defenc. pag. 132. li. 24. Lastly you say but in the garden Christ neuer praied with strong cries and teares to be saued from death that we read in the Scriptures I hope you doâ—… not read in the Scriptures expressely at all that thus he praied in the garden You may soundly gather it from the Scriptures I grant My words are not that the Scriptures expressely name Christs teares in the garden but that none other place nor time of Christs praier mentioned in the Euangelists doe admit teares but the garden For there the place being priuate and his praiers so vehement that his sweat was like bloud both olde and new writers haue collected that the Apostles words were verified in the garden yea the sweat of Christ Bernard calleth teares where he saith x Bernardus in Ramis Palmarum Serm. 3. Christ falling into an agony prayed the third time where he seemed to weepe not only with his eyes but with all the parts of his bodie that the whole bodie of his Church might be purged with the teares of his whole body Zinglius confesseth as much y Zinglius in Historiam Passio Non
in Scripture for this point yet our question is fully proued and confirmed by those other sufficient and pregnant proofs alleaged and iustified before Your palpable and pregnant follies are sufficiently seene before your proofs were none but bald and false presumptions conceiued by your selfe though otherwise voide of all reason and authoritie with such props you haue hitherto supported your Defence and now you be come to the maine issue whether the Scriptures or Fathers doe teach that Christ for our redemption died the death of the soule or the death of the damned which is the second death you would passe it ouer as a matter of no moment and here tell vs if you had no such proofe as indeed you haue none yet you haue played your part before which was to set a good face on an euill cause and to proue iust nothing d Defenc. pag 136. li. 13. For it is to be noted that no man setteth the question in these tearmes that Christ died in his soule neither doe we at all vse them very much in speaking of this matter The Scriptures themselues set that for the question First of all I e 1. Cor. 15. deliuered vnto you sayeth Paul that which I receiued how that Christ died for our sinnes according to the Scriptures Since then f Rom. 5. we were reconciled to God by the death of his Sonne and Christ is the g Hebr 9. Mediatour of the New Testament through death for the redemption of the transgressions in the former Testament and where a Testament is there must be the death of him that made the Testament The question riseth of it selfe what death the Sonne of God died for our sinnes by the witnesse of holy Scripture And hitherto for these fifteene hundred yeeres and vpward the Christian world both of learned and vnlearned hath beleeued that the Sonne of God by the death of his bodie on the tree ransomed our sinnes reconciled vs to God and vtterly destroyed the kingdome of Satan and that he neither did nor could suffer any other kinde of death as the death of the soule or the So that the reference of the Apostles words standeth thus he offered vp praiers and supplications with strong cries and teares to him that was able to saue him from all touch of death and was heard in that he prayed for and though he were the sonne and god was able to keepe him vntouched of death that is to make him the Sauiour of the world without tasting any kind of death yet such was Gods counsell and his owne liking that he learned or perfourmed the obedience of a sonne by the things which he suffered Whereby the Apostle teacheth vs it was neither want of power in God that Christ died for God was able to haue saued the world by him without his death neither was it lacke of fauour towards his sonne for God HEARD him in that he asked but to manifest in his person the perfect submission of a sonne to his father God would haue him obedient to death euen vnto the death of the crosse and so make him the author of eternall saluation to all that obey him As he obeied God his Father Those words then Christ offered praiers to him that was able to keep him from death prooue not death to be the cause of Christs feare nor the scaping therefrom to be the scope of Christes strong cries and teares but the Apostle thereby noteth that Christ neither doubted of his Fathers power nor loue when he praied so earnestly vnto him but was assured of both and enioyed both in such sort as might best stand with the honor and wisedome of God the father and of Christ his sonne And therefore all your collections and illations built on that false ground doâ—… fall of themselues as hauing nothing to support them but your idle and vaine supposals a Defenc. pag. 137. li. 6. Your owne selfe doe fully grant and affirme it with me yea you affirme farder then we doe or then the trueth is or possibly can be you say Christ heâ—…re thus feared eternall death and euerlasting damnation I must take no â—…corne to haue you wrest and wring my words to a contrary sense when you offer that course to the Apostles words The place which you quote for proofe of my meaning will conuince you to be a malitious falsifier My words a man would thinke are plaine enough and my exposition of that speach vsed by some men is such that no man of any intelligence or conscience would so grosly peruert it Thus I say pag 23. b Serm. pag. 23. li. 4. Distrust of his owne saluation or doubt of Gods displeasure against himselfe we cannot so much as imagine in Christ without euident want of grace and losse of faith which we may not attribute to Christs person no not for an instant And againe c Ibid. li. 17. I refraine to speake what wrong it is to put either doubtfulnâ—…sse or forgetfulnesse of these things in part of Christs humane nature And to the question thereon demanded d li. 20. Why then did he pray that the cup might passe from him I answere he had no need to pray for himselfe but only for vs who then suffered with him and in him What learning I cannot say but what lewdnesse is this to father that on me which I fully forsake and still to presse me with that which I so often preuent and repell I did not intend in my Sermons to note any by name nor sharply to censure their sayings but repeating as much as I saw I gaue the best construction or mittigation to their words that any trueth would endure Where then some men whom by your importunity you haue vrged me to name as the Catechisme of master Nowel which you would seeme so much to reuerence in plaine words auoucheth that Christ was e Pag. 280. 〈◊〉 mortis horrore perfusus perfused or plunged with the horror of etâ—…rnall death And master Caluin saith f Institutione li. 2. ca. 16. sect 10. Oportuit 〈◊〉 cum inferorum copijs 〈◊〉 mortis horrore quasi consertis manibus luctari Christ was to wrâ—…si â—…ith the powers of hell and with the horror of eternall death as it were hand to hand Their words suppressing their names I there taught might be tolerated if we tooke horror for a religious feare only trembling at the terror of hell and praying against it or did attribute that trembling and feare of eternall death to Christ in respect and compassion of vs that were his members and whom he ioined and reckened in his sufferings for vs as one person or body with him Which moderation of mine you euery where conceale and make your Reader beleeue that I fully grant and affirme that which I expressely denie And not content therewith you enterlace my words with your lewd additions as if I said Christ thus feared eternall death You meane with strong cries and teares and
God Esay saith p Esa. 53. v. 4. We did iudge him as plagued and smitten of God but he was wounded for our transgressions And S. Marke when the Iewes had crucified Christ amidst two theeues saith q Mark 15. vers 28. Thus the Scripture was fulsilled which saith he was counted among the wicked Thereby noting their errour not Christs desert Besides it is somewhat saucily said that Christ was accounted wicked in the righteous iudgement of God not by the malitious error of the Iewes Such pleasure you take against both Scriptures and Fathers to auouch what you list yea though it draw with it an iniurious slander to the sonne of God The words of the Prophet he t vers 9. made his graue with the wicked compared with those that solow though he did no wickednesse clearely conuince that Christ was an innocent though he were counted and vsed with malefactours and that the Prophet neuer ment to correct Gods iudgement as corrupt but to shew the wisedome and goodnesse of God deliuering his Sonne to be esteemed and vsed as wicked by the wicked and not by himselfe Howbeit there is no necessity to referre these words to the person of God the Father but they more fittely expresse the humility of Christ himselfe who made his graue that is was content to die in the midst of two Theeues and to be buried as they were considering the coherence with the words precedent which out of all question must be vnderstood of Christ himselfe For thus they stand s vers 8. He was cut out of the land of the liuing he was plagued for the transgression of my people t vers 9. He made his graue with the wicked Where no reason forceth any change of persons and so the same person of Christ who was cut from the land of the liuing made his graue with the wicked u Defenc. pag. 143. li. 11. But chiefly considering withall that also before he made his soule a sinne offering Therefore you must needs graunt that Gods word maketh Christs soule to be sacrificed for our sinne And we desire no other death of the soule It is maruaile you doe not out of this place inferre that Christs soule was made sinne for the words are when he shall make his soule sinne But an offering for sinne is the vsuall signification of that word in the Scriptures and therefore you did well in confessing so much to saue me that labour Christ then made his soule an offering for sinne what deduce you out of those words we desire no other death of the soule In faith you be a sillie sacrificer that know not a dead soule A dead soule is no sacrifice for sinne to be no sacrifice for sinne A dead soule is void of all things which should please God and so can be no sacrifice accepted for sinne x Psal. 51. A troubled spirit sorrowing for sinne is a sacrifice to God saith Dauid But doth repentance kill or quicken the soule God y Acts 11. giueth repentance vnto life that is he raiseth the soule first dead in sinne by repentance vnto life z 2. Cor 7. Worldly sorrow causeth death but Godly sorrow causeth repentance vnto saluation Now saluation is not the death but life of the soule a Hebr. 11. Without faith it is impossible to please God And the sacrifice that shall abolish sinne must needs please God It must then not want faith by which the righteous liue Wherefore by your leaue I make the cleane contrarie conclusion out of those wordes The soule of Christ was a sacrifice for sinne but a dead soule is no sacrfice for sinne the soule of Christ therefore was not dead Without death you will say there is no redemption for sinne Without bloud which noteth the death of the bodie there is no redemption for sinne but the soule I trust hath no bloud to be shed And so much the bodies of beasts offered did prefigure I meane the death of the bodie but not of the soule Willing obedience constant patience and assured confidence in the soule of Christ submitting it selfe to the counsell and will of his Father was the spirituall and inward sacrifice which Christ ioyned with the externall and bloudie sacrifice of his bodie For hauing two parts as all men haâ—…e a soule and a bodie neither part might be withdrawen from this sacrifice but his bodie must be yeelded vnto death and his soule must yeeld her selfe pure vndefiled and void of all spot yet feeling and enduring withall meekenesse and humblenesse of heart the paine of death separating her from her bodie And graunt the soule were heere taken for life what so great improper or vnused speach is that since the soule is truely and properly the life of the body b Defenc. pag. 143. li. 16. We denie not but this phrase Animam ponere is to lay downe the life and in diuers placâ—…s signifieth no more then simply to die both concerning Christ and other men yet this is no necessarie reason that heere in I say the soule should be taken figuratiuely for the life onely the rather seeing heere the text precisely setteth downe the great worke of our redemption and to take it as we doe literally impugneth no ground at all of faith or charitie The words to lay downe or power forth the soule import as you confesse not the death of the soule but the death of the bodie And since in the words of Esai Christ powred forth his soule vnto death there can by no learning bee more concluded out of that place but that Christ willingly layd downe his soule to depart from that bodie which is no way the death of the soule as you fansie but a plaine description of the death of Christs body And where for your pleasure you will take it litterally that is no proofe for the death of Christs soule because the word soule may bee properly taken when it is powred forth of the bodie by death but it noteth a willing submission to death where otherwise our soules are taken from vs or we loose them whether we will or no when we are left or put to death against our wils c Defenc. pag. 143. li. 27. Austen hath not a word against vs in that great place which you cite his whole argument being to an other purpose Austins wordes in that place be pregnant against you for all your dissembling d August in Iohannem tractat 47. Quid fecit passio quid fecit mors nisi corpus ab anima separauit What did Christs passion what did death but separate his bodie from his soule If the death and passion of Christ did nothing but separate Christs soule from his body then neither Christs death nor passion preuailed to the death of his soule And if his soule were not touched by death then was it neuer dead and so much Saint Austen witnesseth in the very same tractate e Ibidem Verbum non
departed from the bodie it rested not idle but descended ad inferos vnto hell And surely the one and the other societic both of godly soules and of the damned found the presence of Christes soule For the soules of the faithfull were cheered with great comfort and gaue God thanks sor deliuering them by the hand of this Mediatour and performing that which so long before he had promised Other soules also adiudged to euerlasting damnation animae Christi aduentum persenserunt perceiued the comming of Christes soule Zanchius shewing the different interpretations of those words of the Apostle Christ spoiled powers and principalities and made an open shew of them triumphing ouer them in himselfe that is in his owne person sayth Other Interpreters hold that these enemies were vâ—…nquished and conquered on the crosse by Christ but the triumph was pâ—…rformed when Christ in his soule entred the kingdome of Hell as a glorious victorer For so they interpret the Article He descended into Hell And because the word deigmatizein doth signifie to carie one in an open shew as the Romans were woont in the eyes of men to leade their enemies once ouerthrowen with their hanâ—…s bound behinde them to their perpetuall shame and the soule of Christ separated from his bodie might really doe this to the diuels bringing them out of their infernall kingdome and carying them along the aire in the sight of all the Angels and blessed soules therefore nothing hindereth vs to interpret that which Paul heere writeth as the words sound euen of a reall triumph ouer the diuels in the sight of God onlie and of the blessed spirits specially since the Fathers for the most part so expound them ex nostris non pauci neque vulgares and of our Expositors not a few and those no meane men Aretius in his Problemes purposely treating of Christes descent to hell first alleageth that Tota Ecclesia vbique terrarum hodie illum Articulum agnoscit diuer sum à sepultura recitat the whole Church throughout the world at this date acknowledgeth that article and reciteth it as different from Christs buriall And to that obiection that some Creeds had not this clause he answereth The Church finding the descent of Christ to hell to be plainly deliuered in the Scriptures with great aduise admitted this Article into the Creed Otherwise how could it be that with so full consent of all nations and all tongues this clause should be so constantly and so consentingly receaued Repeating therefore many other senses he refuseth them euery one and concludeth Quare mea est sententia Christum descendisse ad inferos postquam tradidisset spiritum in manus Dei patris in cruce c. Wherfore mine opinion is that Christ descended into hell after he yeelded his soule on the Crosse to the hands of God his Father And hell in this question we put to be a certaine place appointed for the damned euen for Satan and his members To the words of Christ vttered to the thiefe this daie shalt thou be with me in Paradise I answere they hinder not this cause For Christ was in Paradise with the thiefe according to his diuinity in the graue according to his body in hell according to his soule Howbeit there is no certaintie how long Christ staied in hell not long it seemeth so that he might in soule that verie day returne from hell and after a glorious sort enter Paradise with the thiefe Neither hath that any more strength that Christ commended his soule into his Fathers handes For the soule of Christ was still in his Fathers hands though he descended into hell This descent was voide of forrow and shame to Christ. Where they say there was no need of this descent they run backe to the beginning for how should it be needlesse which the Scripture pronounceth Christ did and we confesse in our Creed We iudge it therefore needfull first for the reprobate that they might know he was now come of whose comming they had so often heard but neglected it with great contempt Againe Satan was perfectly to know that this Christ whom he had tempted in the desart and deliuered to death by the fraud of the Iewes was the very Messias and the seed promised to the woman Hoc inquam expediebat etiam Demonibus in imo Tartaro innotescere This I say was expedient euen for the diuels in the deepe of hell to know Thirdly it was expedient for the elect that Satan might see he should haue no right no not on their bodies since Christ heereafter would raise them to life Hemmingius As Christ by his death conflicted with the enemy on the gibbet of the crosse and ouercame him so by his glorious descent to hell resurrection and ascension to heauen he executed the triumph erecting as a monument of his victorie the ensigne of his crosse Mollerus writing on the 16. Psalme Touching Christes descent to hell We saith he vnderstand that Article of our faith in the Creede simply and without allegorie and beleeue that Christ truely descended to the lower parts of the earth as Paul speaketh Ephes. 4. It is enough for vs to beleeue which Austen affirmeth in his Epistle to Dardanus Christ thereforâ—… descended that he might helpe those which were to be holpen For Christ by his death destroied the powers of hell and the tyrannie of the diuell as is said Osee 13. O death I will be thy death and thy destruction O hell And this his victory he would in a certaine maner shew vnto the diuell that he might strike perpetuall terrors into the diuell and take from vs all feare of Satans tyrannie Let it suffice vs to know this and omit curious questions and disputations heereabouts Pomeranus on these words of the 16. Psalme Thou wilt not leaue my soule in Hell Heere hast thou saith he that Article of our faith Christ descended into hell If thou aske what he did there I answer He then deliuered not the Fathers onely but all the faithfull from the beginning of the world to the end thereof not out of Lymbus but out of the lowest nether most hell to which we all were condemned and in which we all were as in death by the sentence of God There euerlasting fire did abide to vs all that being deliuered to death by the sinne of Adam we might in the last iudgement be deliuered to punishment and perpetuall sire Christ therefore descended euen thither vnto death and hell to this end least thou shouldest dâ—…scend thither that as he had redeemed vs from death so he might deliuer vs from hell Westmerus in his expositions of the Psalmes followeth worde for word the confession of Pomerane Wolfgangus Musculus Christ therefore was to die not that he should simply be dead but that by his death he might conquer death and ouercome him that had the rule ouer death and so he was to descend to hell
he the preeminence in all things if all the Patriarks and Prophets were there before him againe the words of Abraham reach no farder then vnto men they restraine not Angels from descending and ascending and much lesse the sonne of God If none without exception could goe fro heauen to hel as you would construe Abrahams speach how fell the Diuell and his Angels from heauen to hell how did Saint Iohn see an Angel come downe from heauen hauing the key of the bottomlesse pitte binding shutting vp Satan in that pitte if Angels may passe from the one place to the other how much more might Christ who is the Lord head of Angels and hath the keies of hell and death But since the Scriptures anouch Christes soule was not left in hell there are plainer and exprâ—…sser words for the being of his soule in hell then in Abrahams bosome so if there be no returne thence no not for Christ himselfe then by your lame and lewd collection you condemne Christs soule to perpetuall prison in hell And how commeth it to pasâ—…e by your diuinity that Abraham must receaue Christs soule into his bosome who was the Redeemer and Sauiour of Abraham is your skill so great that you forget Christ to be the sonne of God and so meeter to receaue Abrahams soule into his protection then to be receaued of Abraham but what will you not say and suppose to continue the credit of your conceits in the eies of the simple though no wise man vnlesse wedded to your deuices will any thing be mooued with these weake suggestions As touching Austens diuers opinion and yours see before page 29 and your page 360. Could you find any diuersity worth the marking between Austens opinion and mine touching Christs words on the crosse to the thiâ—…fe your modesty would serue you to make the most of it but if I repeat diuers opinions of learned writers and leaue the Reader to his Christian liberty which he best liketh what offence take you at that except it be that I follow not your trade which is to despise all the world besides your selfe Indeed in your 29 Page you say I reiect Austens exposition of Christes words to the Thiefe this day shalt thou be with me in Paradise which Austen vnderstandeth of the thiefes soule and Christs diuine presence in Paradise but you keepe your wont to tell taâ—…es for trueth and to wast words when you want good matter For I doe not reiect Austens exposition but only adde as now I doe since there is no Scripture to fasten Christs soule to hell for the whole time of his death Christs soule might after death at diuers times be in Paradise and in hell Wherein I leaue the Reader to his discretion which of those two expositions he will embrace Neither did I in this anouch more then Austen himselfe els where is content to yeeld For reasoning against Felicianus the Arrian he saith Seddicet aliquis deitatis hanc non animae Christi credimus vocem But some will say we beleeue this to day shalt thou be with me in Paradise was the voice of Christs deity and not of his soule To which part then of the thiefe doe we take this promise was made this day saith Christ to the thiefe shalt thou be with me in Paradise whose body the common death had inclosed vntill the resurrection to come It was then the soule of the thiefe to which Christ promised and performed this Whereupon he concludeth Si igitur mortuo corpore ad Paradisum anima mox vocatur quemquamne adhuc tam impium credimus qui dicere audeat quoniam anima seruatoris nostritriduo illo corporeae mortis apud inferos custodiae mancipetur If then the body of the thiefe dying his soule were presently called to Paradise shall we thinke any man so wicked as to dare say that the soule of our Sauiour during the three dayes that his bodie lay dead was held in the custodie of hell So that though S. Austen acknowledge the other sense of Christes diuine presence in Paradise to be multo expeditior ab ijs omnibus ambiguitatibus liber farre the easier and freer from all obiections yet he doth not endure that any man should so fasten the soule of Christ to hell for the time of his death that Christ might not thence depart and be in Paradise when pleased him as well as the Thiefe but must stay in hell as if he were kept in custodie How you will doe to maintaine that Christ went indeed to them but presently left them that he might goe to hell I know not In this I doubt you walke without your guide If I did vse any such wordes that Christ must presently post from heauen to hell as if he were like to be benighted afore he came thither you might busie your braines with lacke of time and want of guides but if Angels present themselues heere from heauen in a moment and time almost insensible what should hinder the soule of Christ endued with greater power and might then any Angel to goe at what time and with what speed he would to doe that which the Scriptures testifie he did If then the Prophets and Apostles beare witnesse that his soule was in hell and there not left but ascending vpward ledde captiuitie caâ—…tiue and spoiled powers and principalities why play you the iade in iesting at an Article of the Christian faith as if the way were long and tedious betweene Paradise and hell so that Christ must haue some time and helpe to dispatch so great a iourney The Apostle teacheth that the resurrection of the dead shall be in a moment and in the twinckling of an eie If so generall and strange a worke as to haue all their soules out of Paradise and hell ioyned to their bodies and their persons aliue caught vp to the iudgement seate of Christ in the aire shall be wrought in all the sonnes of men elect and reprobate at an instant what incredible thing is this except to an infidell that he which made heauen and earth with a word should in as short time as he saw cause shew his humane soule to the powers of darknesse in the midst of their kingdome and take all strength and rule from them and lead them captiue at his pleasure And therefore neuer calculate so curiously the distance or passage from Paradise to hell if these things were not marueilous in mans eies they were not meet workes for the Sonne of God but examine soberly whether the Scripture auouch any such presence of Christes soule in hell and conquest ouer hell And if that appeare teach men to leaue the rest to the mightie hand of God which brought the soule of his Sonne thither in what time and maner he thought good and might best make for his glory I adde that which is cleere and certaine yea that which your selfe rightly beleeueth and professeth with
and specially the nether most Sheol to be below in the deepe of the earth to be opposite to heauen to be the place of punishment for the wicked after their deaths warrant in the sacred Scriptures to vphold these assertions For though Sheol extend to any place vnder earth that by Gods ordinance requireth or receaueth the bodies or soules of the dead in that respect to the godly it can be no more then the graue the losse of all things in this life consequent to the graue in that sense we must interprete Sheol when it is applied to the bodies or persons of the Saints whose soules are in rest and blisse with God not vnder the earth where Sheol is yet the ful force of that word wheÌ„ it is threatned to any or affirmed of the wicked noteth the pit of destructioÌ„ for their soules aswel as of corruption for their bodies the consequents of either the nethermost Sheol expressely designeth the place of torment appointed for sinners that die out of Gods fauour receaue the iust reward of their vnrighteousnesse The way of life saith Salomon is aboue to him that knoweth to decline from Sheol that is below Where first it is euident that as heauen is aboue in which is true and eternall life so Sheol which is the pit of death for bodie and soule is below vs which must needes be in the earth vnder vs. This partition of celestiall terrestriall and infernall persons and places the Apostle warranteth by this authoritie when he saith Euery knee of things 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in heauen on the earth and vnder the earth should and shall bow at the name of Iesus And since the whole world is by the word of God in the creation conseruation and alteration thereof sufficiently deuided into heauen and earth the place of hell must of necessitie be either out of the whole world created by God and so no where or in heauen which is an impious absurditie and monstrous contrarieâ—…e or else it must be within the compasse of the earth and not being vpon the earth where men liue it must needes be vnder the earth whither the wicked descend when they die This distribution also Saint Iohn ratifieth when he saith None in heauen nor on earth 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 nor vnder the earth was able to open the booke Wherefore the booke of Iob to expresse the infinitenesse of Gods perfection and wisedome vseth these foure comparisons The heauens are high what canst thou doe there It is deeper then Sheol how canst thou know it the measure thereof is longer then the earth and broder then the sea Where if we bee not wilfully blâ—…nd wee cannot choose but see that Sheol is not onely deepe but the deepest place in the world euen as heauen is the highest To compare the wisedome of God with the graue which is sixe foote deepe or not so much were most ridiculous since we commonly digge to that depth and deeper vpon diuers occasions And therefore Sheol is the deepest place in the earth to which no man liuing euer pearced to make report of the deepenesse of it Moses confirmeth the same when he saith sire shall burne to the lower Sheol and shall eate through the earth and inflame the foundations of the hils As the situation of Sheol is below vnder the earth that is in the bottome of the earth so is it a place threatned to the soules not onely to the bodies of the wicked though at length it shall receaue both Dauid putting a difference betwixt himselfe and the wicked saith Like sheepe shall they be laid in Sheol but God will redâ—…eme my soule from the hand of Sheol Dauid neuer drempt that his soule should bee in the graue nor that the soules of the wicked should there be laid much lesse that his bodie should be freed from the graue more then the bodies of such as knew no God at all Sheol then here as in sundry other parts of Scripture signifieth somewhat from which the godly shal be saued and whereto the wicked shal be euerlastingly adiudged But that is not the graue which is common to all men good and bad It was therefore the Sheol of soules from which Dauid hoped to be deliuered and which the wicked shall not auoyd And so are his very words The Lord will deliuer my soule from the power of Sheol Againe the full reward of wickednesse is not the graue whereto the godly come as well as the godlesse But Sheol is threatned in the Scriptures as the full and finall wages of all impietie neither is there any other note or name sor hell except metaphoricall throughout the Old Testament Wherefore when Dauid saith sinners shall be turned to Sheol and all nations that forget God he doth not threaten them with that which is generall to all Gods children but with that which is peculiar to all Gods enemies which must needes be hell and not the graue And so much Caluine himselfe who otherwise ouermuch vrgeth the right sense of Sheol to be the graue confesleth to be the true meaning of this place The Hebrew word Sheôlah to Sheol which was ambiguous I doubted not to translate by the name of hell For though it displease me not that others translate it the graue yet it is certaine that somewhat heere is noted by the Prophet besides the common death Otherwise he should say nothing of the wicked that should not indifferently agree to all the faithfull Obserue this rule which indeed is true that when the Scriptures threaten the wicked with Sheol they meane not the graue which is common to all the godly but that Sheol which is appointed for the wicked from which the faithfull shall be freed and you may spare all your figures and phrases wherewith you loade both your selfe and your Reader in this place to no purpose For there is a Sheol as Salomon noteth that shall swallow men aliue and whole which cannot be the graue where there lyeth but one part of man and that after his death And since the Scripture in exact tearmes maketh a lower Sheol which cannot be but in comparison of an higher with what face can you elude the lower Sheol to be nothing but the graue whereas one and the same thing cannot bee by any meanes both lower and higher in respect of it selfe And therefore howsoeuer you could shuffle with the name of Sheol without addition against both learning and trueth yet to auouch the lower Sheol to be onely the graue is onely a point of your accustomed impudencie which regardeth neither reason nor sense so long as you may ourface all with your priuate and witlesse fansie Come now to the place of Esaie the fourteenth where you so premâ—…rily pronounce that whatsoeuer others thinke the circumstances doe conuince the graue onely is there ment and see your owne follie if pride haue not so closed your eyes
apostles speech as the wordes interposed in an other letter and with two lines inclosed but that the Printer did sometimes forget my markes and directions doe plainly witnesse And to what purpose I pray you Sir in common reason were it for me to repeat a place faire and full as I doe and within two lines after to cite the same againe with sixe wordes added which were not in the former except it were an exposition and no citation of the Apostles words Wherefore your wisedome might presently haue perceaued that the halfe circle which standeth after places did in my coppie stand after presence and that the Printer by haste or neglect brought it neerer then hee should And those very wordes places with his presence you finde twice in the same section in an ordinarie letter and cite them your selfe as an exposition and not an addition to the Apostles words But my speech you say is both inconuenient and farre from the Apostles meaning Of that you are no fitte iudge you must reade more and more indifferently then you doe before you will come neere the Apostles meaning Your exposition that Christ first descended into the lower parts of the earth and then ascended farre aboue all heauens onely to fill all his Church with the gifts of his spirit which by his ascending hee promised to doe is farre from the Apostles wordes and meaning For in these wordes to fill all the apostle compriseth as well the benefits of Christs descending as of his ascend ing And euen by his ascending we are assured of other and greater gifts then those which are powred on his church heere on earth for the support of his Saints in this life Christes comming to iudgement his raising our bodies from corruption and conforming them to be like his glorious body and bringing vs into the kingdome of his Father where perfect eternall and celestiall ioy blisse and glory shall be reuealed on vs these be waightier and excellenter gifts then the graces of this life and yet by Christes ascending into heauen we haue a manifest interest in all these So that though it be true that Christ departing from vs prouided sufficiently for vs whilcs heere we liue by the gifts and graces of his spirit yet the kingdome of Christ which cxtendeth to things places and persons celestiall terrestriall and infernall is farre larger then that part which you mention which commeth nothing neere to the fulnesse of the Apostles wordes or sense Since then by descending to the lowest and ascending to the highest the apostle noteth all the places in the world the earth not excepted from which Christ both descended and ascended after he had finished the worke of our redemption and by his presence in euerie place was acknowledged his power and dominion ouer all things in euery of these places hell it selfe being not able to make any resistance to his person or pleasure the sensc which I giuc to the apostlcs words that Christ descended ascended to fill all places with the maiestie of his presence and might of his word better declareth the greatnesse and largenesse of Christes kingdome now sitting in heauen then doth the guiding of his church in the miseries and infirmities of this life though I do not denie but that is a woorthy part of his excellent and supereminent power And for that application of the apostles wordes which perhaps you finde not in your Note bookc and so suspcct it to be the more inconuenient Athanasius a man of more iudgement then I or you or any that you follow for ought that I know first led me to it Christ performed the condemnation of siâ—…ne on the earth the abolition of the curse on the crosse the redemption of corruption in the graue and the dissolution of death in hell Omnia loca permeans going to euerie place that he might euery where worke mans saluation And againc As then Christ our Sauiour 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 filled all places on all sides with his presence so he filled all with the knowledge of himselfe Man compassed on euerie side and euery where that is in heauen in hell in man in earth may behold the Diuinitie of the Sonne of God vnfolded by his Manhood Third you make much of that which doth you not a pinnes worth of good where it is asked who shall descend into the deepe that is to bring Christ againe from the dead If the deepe here did signifie Hell which yet certainely it doth not but suppose it doth how will that follow which you presume that Christ dying descended into the deepe The text saith no such thing You be a deinty diuine that thinke the Apostle here wandreth in his question eâ—…eth in his answere abruptly impertinently clapping things vncoherent together If the Apostle did not referre the former questions to Christ how then in his answere doth head this is to bring Christ down from heauen to bring Christ backe from the dead Will your wisedome then learne that the question must fit the answere the one be pinned at least to the other But Christ you say is not named in either of those questions who shal or can ascend to heauen who shal or can descend to the deepe What thcn are there not besides the answers which name Christ so â—…ie the former question to the person of Christ two manifest reasonsto restrain these questionsvnto Christ First that the coâ—…snes of faith there mentioned by the Apostle which dependeth only wholy on Christ may moue no such questions nor doubt no such things For he that doubteth whether Christ dying descended to the deepe or rising ascended to heauen vtterly frustrateth the faith that is in Christ. The perswasion then of faith which must be farre from moouing any such questions of Christ prooueth those questions to pertaine to Christ. Secondly the questions themselues exactly comprise the person of Christ and consequently though he be not there named yet is he there â—…nely intended as appeareth by the answere For these interrogatiues who can ascend to heauen or who can descend to the deepe are equiualent to these generall Negatiues none can ascend to heauen and none can descend to the deepe as is plaine by the perpetuall vse of the Scripture What hast thou which thou hast not receaued who is like to thee O Lord his generation who shall declare which of you reproueth me of sinne Who shall accuse the elect of God Who shall separate vs from the loue of Christ And a thousand like examples doe exquisitely proue these interrogatiues to be resolute and absolute Negatiues And so Iob expoundeth them Who can make cleane of vncleane not one If NONE can ascend to heauen or descend to the deepe then NOT CHRIST and so much the Apostle expresseth when he saith that Christ is excluded from descending and ascending by those questions and in that respect all that will be faithful must forbeare them
to heauen as Dauid likewise foretold of him and there sitteth at the right hand of God vntill all his enemies in the rest of his members be made his footstoole and thence hath he shed forth this which you now see and heare euen the promise of the holy Ghost receaued of the Father for all his Know ye therefore for a suertie that God hath made him both Lord ouer all in heauen earth and hell and Christ euen the annointed Sauiour of all his elect Against this illation neither all the miscreants in earth nor all the Diuels in hell can open their mouths Where first we may see that Peter resteth more on the manner and power of Christs resurrection then simply on this that his soule was reunited to his body from which by death it was seuered Secondly he bringeth the words of Dauid to shew that either part of the Messias submitted to death for the time was to returne againe to life with greater glory the flesh free from all corruption the soule superiour to all destruction Thirdly that these things neither were nor could be verified in Dauid since Dauid saw corruption as his sepulchre prooued remaining to that day and Dauid was not as then ascended to heauen much lesse made Lord ouer all his enemies Heere is no such prerogatiue mentioned If this were common to Christ with Dauid and others of the faithfull how could Peter hence conclude that this was not spoken of Dauid but onely of the Messias Againe if this were no prerogatiue what need was there that Dauid should be a Prophet by speciall reuelation to know this much and that which Dauid knew was not onely this that Christ should rise to life againe but the words are that God would raise vp Christ after death to set him on his throne that is to giue him an euerlasting kingdome euen all power in heauen and earth subiecting all his enemies vnder his feet So that simply to rise from death was no prerogatiue nor proper to Christ but to rise Lord ouer all death and hell not excepted this was peculiar to Christ and not common to him with Dauid and therefore must needes be a speciall priuiledge to the manhood of Christ which is expressed chiefly in these words Thou wilt not forsake my soule in hades but bring me thence conquerer of all mine enemies You adde no flesh dead was euer free from corruption but onely Christes what then ergo his soule was in hell Why winch you where no man toucheth you doth any man say Christes soule was in hell because his flesh saw no corruption or rather that Dauids wordes are as plaine and peculiar to Christ in the one that Christes soule was not forsaken in hell as in the other that God would not suffer his flesh to see corruption and both being affirmed of Christ by way of speciall prerogatiue why should not both be likewise performed in Christ were not some being dead raised to life againe before their flesh putrified The promise of God to Christ that his flesh should not see corruption doth not onely assure a speedie resurrection but an impossibilitie that any corruption could preuaile against his flesh since the returne of his flesh to dust to which all others are iudged would bee the dissolution of his person for the time which by no meanes might befall him his Godhead being vnited vnto flesh and not vnto dust In these words therefore of Dauid the soule and bodie of Christ were appointed to be superiour to all contrarie powers that is the soule to hell the flesh to the graue and from both was Christ to rise as subduer of both that he might sit on his heauenly Throne as Lord ouer all not by promise onely as before but by proofe also as appeared in his resurrection And yet so many dayes as Christ did lyeth no man in his graue without some taint of corruption which in Christ was vtterly none It is a strange absurditie still to abuse your Reader calling this word hell which indeede is nothing but death in effect Againe to presume that we take it for Paradise or heauen or hell when wee referre it alwayes to the generall state of the dead and no farder immediately Then when you expound the wordes of the Creede Christ descended to hades your meaning is nothing in effect but that Christ died which was before deliuered in plained and shorter wordes and so your exposition is an idle and obscure repetition Againe hades in the new Testament is neuer taken for the death of the bodie since it is annexed to bodily death as a consequent after it and so your acception of it is repugnant to the trueth of the Scriptures And where you will at no time haue Hades taken for Paradise Heauen or Hell as here you pretend when you thereby note the place of soules deceased meane you they are neither in Heauen Paradise nor Hell are you not a wise man to talke so much of an inuisible place and when you come to the point you will haue it no place at all but you referre it alwayes to the generall state of the dead and no farder immediately An inuisible place you referre immediately to no place and thus when you will be frantike or foolish words shall loose their proper and plaine signification and containe no more then pleaseth you Shew vs a place where soules deceased are besides Paradise Heauen and Hell and wee will graunt you may exclude these three by some pretence when you spake of the place of hades but if you cannot then topos aides a place vnseene which you haue so much bowled at will be a place in spite of your heart and that immediately and consequently will bee Paradise Heauen or Hell whatsoeuer you presume or dreame to the contrarie Christ had another inestimable cause to reioyce that he was raised to life againe namely that he might fulfill his whole worke for our saluation which before his resurrection and ascension he could not accomplish When I told you that Christ after death was to conquere Hell and to free vs thence you would needes defend that Christ on the Crosse perfited our redemption and wrought our saluation and now you say which I take to bee the truer though you meane not to bee constant therein that before his resurrection and ascension hee could not accomplish the worke of our saluation The text saith God raised him vp loosing the sorrowes of death because it was impossible for him to be holden fast of it Will you conclude from hence ergo there were present sorrowes in the place where Christ was there is no strength in this reason There is more strength in it then either you will acknowledge or can answere The sorrowes of bodily death are all dissolued by the separating of the soule from the bodie Then after death there are no sorrowes of bodily death But God raised vp Christ loosing the sorrowes of
place of torment after this life and not one common place for all in paine and rest with nothing but a ditch betwixt them So likewise Christ promised the gates of hades should not preuaile against his Church where if you defend that the godly shall not haue their soules separated from their bodies by death and yet hell may preuaile against their soules you maintaine two as manifest lies as a man may vtter Spite of your hart therefore Hades must signifie hell in the 16. of Saint Matthewes Gospell and so it doth in all other places of the new Testament though the circumstances of ech place be not so pregnant as these are And though in the old Testament Zuinglius Mollerus obserue The gates of Sheol and Hades with the Septuagint may signifie the danger of death approching when it is referred to the godly yet Hades in the new Testament neuer signifieth the death of the body but it is a thing distinguished from it and consequent to it as Saint Iohn in plaine words doth witnesse his name that sate on the pale horse was Death and Hades followed after him or close to him The worthie Master Bucer noteth well saying Diues non simpliciter scribitur esse in hade sed in gehenna quia in torment is flammis The rich is not said to be simply in hades but also in hell because he is said to be in fierie torments Master Bucere I honor for his learning and Religion yet not so that all his words are Gospell or that I receaue him afore or against all the Fathers And by his leaue in this place his wordes are out of square He saith The Rich man is not simply written to be in Hades but if mine eyes were matches when I read Saint Lukes Gospell last it cannot be more simply written then it is there 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 And in Hades lifting vp his eyes Now what place Hades is the Euangelist expresseth when he saith being in torments Had Hades beene vsed alone without explication men might and would haue questioned this as they doe other places where Hades is vsed alone But Luke noting afterward what manner of place Hades is euen a place of Torment he prooueth exactly that Hades alone without any addition ioyned to it is vsed for hell in the new Testament Will you conclude from this as you doe about Abyssus In the Reuelation and in Luke Abyssus is vsed to signifie Hell Therefore it signifieth Hell in the Romanes or therefore euery where properly it signifieth Hell If Abyslus be the bottomelesse pit properly and hell be so called both in the Gospell and in the Reuelation and no reason can be giuen why either the graue or the Sea should properly be called bottomelesse then since figures are not to be brought into the Scriptures but vpon necessitie you must shew vs more necessitie then hitherto you haue done why hell may not be vnderstood in that place or else we must cleaue to the naturall sense of the word and leaue your figures till you can better fasten them That Abyssus may metaphorically be applied to other things I neuer denied but in Saint Pauls words to the Romans you must shew vs a pit that properly is bottomlesse and opposite to heauen and to which Christ descended before you can exclude hell as not ment by the Apostle in that place But of this I haue spoken before whither I referre you for fuller answere death sometimes is the 2 death ergo it is so Acts 2. 24. The sorrowes of the first death end with this life and in the graue there is neither sorrow nor sense But the sorrowes of that death which Peter ment were loosed at Christs rising to life Those were therefore the sorrowes of another death which must be the second death which were loosed and scattered with Christs resurrection Againe the text hath there a double reading death or hades Then that death must be vnderstood which is in hades and not the sorrowes and paines which are in this life since hades by your owne confession is a state opposite to the world Thirdly the loosing of the sorrows of that death which Peter there intended prooueth Christ to be Lord of all But a simple rising vnto life againe prooueth no such thing That therefore was neither pertinent nor sufficient for Peters purpose Next let vs consider and thou Capernaum which art lift vp to heauen shalt be brought downe to hades to destruction I say hades heere is not hell but the destruction of Capernaum the city Christ threatneth the city it selfe with destruction and razing out from the face of the earth which he meaneth by hades The inhabitants the wicked people thereof he threatneth with damnation in hell A graue and wise construction Christ threatneth the stones and timber of the city with hades for not hearing his word and regarding his miracles In the 20 verse of this very chapter where it is said Christ began to vpbraid the cities whereof Capernaum was one because they repented not of whom spake Christ of the men or of the wals of those cities it may be you will find out repentance for stones but our Sauiour nameth the place for the persons which is as vsuall in the Scriptures as any thing may be Ierusalem Ierusalem which killest the Prophets and stonest those that be sent vnto thee Christ speaketh not there of the housen but of the Inhabitants So doth he heere for neither were the stones of this city capable of repentance nor exalted vp to heauen nor intelligent of Christs words or works nor punishable at the day of iudgement all which things Christ heere ascribeth to Capernaum Then if the stones of Capernaum were not exalted to heauen they were not threatned by Christ to be depressed downe to hades And so hades heere was not threatned to the place but to the persons Now the persons by your owne confession and by the righteous iudgement of Christ were threatned with damnation in hell Hades then in these words of Christ doth exactly signifie hell and implieth as much as followeth in the next verse It shal be easier for the land of Sodom in the day of iudgement then for thee Which is likewise spoken to the city though ment of the vnbeleeuers there Now if we make the former words interrogatiue as some Greek copies haue them and the Latin translator putteth them And thou Capernaum wilt thou be exalted to heauen You must giue will to stones as well as sense before these wordes can agree to the city it selfe The Gospell of Saint Matthew translated into the Hebrew tongue long before Saint Ieroms time if it were not written in Hebrew by the Euangelist himselfe as Ierom thinketh thus expresseth the words of our Sauiour And thou Capernaum wilt thou be exalted to heauen adh Gehinnom têredi thou shalt descend to Gehenna And if that which you haue said all this while haue
after his resurrection all power in heauen and earth that is in all places and ouer all things created is giuen vnto me Since then without question Christ had the keyes as well of death and hell as of heauen and so that sense of his words is most true let vs see which of our expositions hath best reason When Iohn for feare fell as dead at Christs feete would Christ to comfort Iohn in that plight say no more but that he himselfe was once dead and now aliue and had power to die no more as you expound Christs words how could this strengthen or restore Iohn that was euen dead for feare or did Christ rather encourage Iohn not to feare without cause seeing he himselfe not onely was risen from the dead but had all power ouer death and hell that is the keyes of both to dispose of ech mans life and Soule at his pleasure when therefore Christ that had all power of life and death Saluation and damnation laid his right hand on Iohn to protect him and bad him not feare but write the things which he saw had not Iohn iust cause to cast away all feare and cheerefully to obey the voice of him that was so able and ready to rescue him from all feare and danger whatsoeuer Christs power ouer death you will say was enough to preserue Iohns life and therefore mention of the key of hell was superfluous Iohn was to see and write the things that were and after should be in heauen earth and hell as is euident in his Reuelations yea the opening and shutting of the bottomelesse pit the chaining of Satan there the comming of the Locusts and the beast from thence and the lake of fire and brimstone euerlastingly burning there and who should be throwen into it were to be reuealed vnto him Lest therefore the sight of these things should amaze Iohn or the reporting of them should want credit with vs Christ did professe which is most true that he had the keyes that is all power euen ouer these secret and fearefull places so that Iohn should neither shrinke at the vision nor we distrust the Relation of them And though my reason of mentioning here the keyes of hell be such as you shall neuer counteruaile yet doe I not runne proudly and peremptorily as you doe in mine owne conceits I haue the iudgement of the best Interpreters old and new that haue intermedled with the opening of these reuelations Andreas Arch Bishop of the same Caesaria that Saint Basil was and within 600. yeeres after Christ though you skornfully reiect him as you doe that venerable writer Bede expounding these words of Christ I haue the keyes of death and of Hades saith 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that is of the death of the Body and of the Soule Primasius expoundeth them thus I haue the keyes of death and hell idest Diaboli totius corporis eius that is ouer the diuell and all his body or societie The exposition of the Apocalyps extant in Saint Austens works thus I haue the keyes of death and Hell because he that beleeueth and is baptised is deliuered from death and from hell Haymo thus By the name of the keyes is shewed Christs eternall power by death the diuell is vnderstood by whose enuy death came into the world And by hell his members that shall come to the torments of hell Lyra. I haue the keyes of death and of hell that is power to deliuer thence the iust which Christ did in his Resurrection and to inclose there the wicked which he shall chiefly doe in the last iudgement Of our new writers Bullingere Christ then hath the keyes of death and hell because whom he will he deliuereth from the perpetuall damnation of death and whom he will he suffereth iustly to remaine in that perill of damnation Christ hath the supreme gouernment of the house or kingdome of God to quicken whom he will and to draw them from hell and damnation and whom he will damne with his iust iudgement to destroy For he hath most full power ouer death and hell He conquered and disabled both as it is Osee. 13. and 1. Corinth 15. Aretius He that resembled the Sonne of Man in the Apocalyps said I haue the keyes of hell and death hoc est in damnatos damnandos damnatorum loca that is ouer those that are damned or shall be damned and ouer the places of the damned Chytreus Christ deliuereth his Church from the captiuitie of death and hell casteth the wicked into the Dungeon of hell and of eternall death For he hath the keyes that is most full power ouer death and hell Sebastian Meyer whom Marlorate followeth I haue the keyes of death and hell that is power to pardon sinnes which being abolished both death and hell are depriued of their strength Osiander I haue the keyes of death and hell that is it is in my hand to kill and quicken to damne and sauc These men had both learning and reason to say as they did neither will any pick them ouer the pearch as you doe Andreas Caesariensis and Bede but he that hath neither Againe one sitteth on a pale horse whose name was death and Hades destruction the world of the dead or the kingdome of death followed after him This in no wise can be hell because the Text addeth power was giuen them to slay with the sword and with famine and with death and with wild beasts Hell slayeth none in that sort these are not the weapons of hell You lacke three Gennets to set your three poppets on horsebacke If by these three destruction the world of the dead the kingdome of death you meane in effect nothing but death as you vse to expound your selfe that is expressed before and Saint Iohn saith Hades followed after him Doth any thing follow after it selfe Againe will you bring your world of the dead that is all the Soules in heauen and hell to ride on horse-backe and that in the shew and shape of one person you would make good dumb shewes you haue such pretie fansies to make death goe first alone and his kingdome to come after him But though you play with Saint Iohns visions you haue no warrant to mistake Saint Iohns words and to muster your owne errors vnder his colours Saint Iohn doth not say that power was giuen to death and Hades to kill with the sword with famine and with death as you dreame but Saint Iohn hauing represented the sword or warre by the red horse verse 4. and famine by the blacke horse verse 5. and all sorts of diseases and pestilences by the pale horse verse 8. he saith power was giuen to them that is to the riders on these three horses to kill the fourth of the earth with warre hunger and sicknesse And because these three come not one after another but when God is greatly prouoked with
as you doe tending all to expresse one thing but seeke a little to shew vs what matter is contained in them you should soone see what labour you haue lost in this Carrecke of words which you haue newly brought vs home Your meere and simple death which you say is nothing els but the going asunder of the soule from the body hath of necessitie thus much in it It is the separation of the soule from the body which is the cause of life in the body It is the dissolution of the person which consisteth of body and soule It is the priuation of life which endeth with the departing of the soule It is the continuing of death since possibly there is no regresse from the priuation to the habite without the mightie hand of God working aboue nature For the soule departing neuer returneth till God commaund by whose word heauen and earth were made What now after death becommeth of both parts of man is no hard matter to conceaue Salomon saith Dust meaning flesh first made of dust returneth to earth as it was and the spirit to God that gaue it by him to be disposed and adiudged to ioy or paine as pleaseth him The body then goeth to corruption the soule receaueth iudgement where it shall remaine in hell or heauen till the bodie be restored againe which shall be at the last day Descending to hades after death cannot be verified of the whole person of man but in respect of the parts Referred to the body it is as much as buried and laide in the place where it shall putrifie and returne to dust Applied to the soule it must signifie the place to which the soule is caried which I say must be vnder earth since heauen is neuer called by that name nor expressed by that word either in the Scriptures or in any other sacred or prophane writers The power and dominion of death which you so much speake of is nothing else but Gods ordinance that from death there is no returne to life till hee appoint If then there be no dominion nor kingdome of death preuailing or ruling in heauen where the soules of the Saints are without their bodies then Christ in ascending to heauen descended not to Hades Againe with what trueth can you auouch Christes soule came vnder the full power and dominion of death since death had no power ouer the bodie or soule of Christ longer or farder then he himselfe would permit and his soule free from all bands and paines of death destroied the dominion and kingdome of death to which it was alwaies superiour and neuer subiect but onely that he might shew himselfe with greater power to be conquerer of death rather in rising from the dead then in declining the force of death as if he were not able after death and in death to dissolue the dominion and power of death Wherefore your exaggerating the power and dominion of death OVER THE SOVLE of Christ and that IN HEAVEN whither you graunt Christes soule went after death is not onely a vaine and idle flourish but a poisoned and pestilent doctrine if you take not heed to it since no power of death but Christes will to shew himselfe Lord of life and death either seuered his soule from his bodie or bestowed his soule in any place after death or detained him in the condition of death but he was free to die when he would and rise from death when he would which euerteth all power and dominion of death ouer him how much soeuer in wastefull wordes you auouch the contrarie Touching the proprietie of wordes that you say is as true as the rest For Hades hath no such natiue and proper sense as you talke of but exactly and directly when it is referred to a place and not to a person signifieth a place of darknesse where nothing can be seene as with one consent Heathen and Christian writers acknowledge And the word descending after death which you must applie to the soule ascending to heauen you childishly change into the fall of the person from lise to death or inconstantly varie you know not how to Christes submission when he died or his abasement by lying held and subdued so long time in death Where againe you incurre the same sands that you did before in affirming Christ was held and subdued of death for the time which is plainly false doctrine since he would abide that time in death least any should thinke him not truely dead but was neuer vnder the power and dominion of death And as for lying held in death that phrase is strangely referred to the soule of Christ which ascended to the third heauen with more honour and ioy then it receaued in this life heere on earth What Ruffine saith is not much to be regarded if we beleeue S. Ierom neither was Ruffines faith sound nor his authoritie any thing in the Church and yet were he woorth the respecting he maketh more against you then for you For first these wordes are not vsed as an exposition of Christs descent to Hades but Ruffine saith Diuina natura in mortem per carnem descendit non vt lege mortalium detinerâ—…tur a Morte sed vt per se resurrecturus ianuas mortis aperiret The diuine nature of Christ descended to death by his flesh not to be held of death after the law of mortall men but that rising of himselfe hee might open the gates of death Where he saith the diuine nature descended to death he speaketh not of the soule but of the godhead of Christ which words by your leaue require a sober interpretation and yet in respect of the diuine glory the phrase of descending vnto death signifieth Christes submission to die not his descent after death And withall he refelleth two of your fansies first that Christ was was not held of death which you say he was Secondly that he followed not heerein the lâ—…w of mans nature which you say he did And that Christes soule descended to hell by Ruffines opinion his wordes are plaine enough in many places He applieth that to Christ which Dauid saith Thou hast brought my soule out of hell and alleaging the place of Peter In his spirit Christ preached to them which were in prison heerein saith â—…e it is declared quid operâ—…â—…gerit in Inferno What Christ did in hell So that the lesse hold you take of Ruffine the better for you and your cause he will doe more harme then good If any thinke this to be somewhat figuratiue yet is it verely so familiar and easie to all people as that other word in the Creede is he sitteth at the right hand of God yea it is farre easier When you can diue deepe into your owne fansies you thinke them as familiar to all others as to your selfe If this were so easie and readie with the simpler sort as you make it me thinkes it should not so much trouble
your skilles to bring Articles of the Creede to be phrases as if the Apostles and their followers which were the first planters of Churches had ment to teach the simple people not principles of faith but certaine Greeke or Hebrew phrases He that will suffer you to turne his faith into a phrase let him take heed that insteed of heauen he light not on hel which is one of your chiefe phrases But you neuer said that Hades signified heauen You may saue this from a lie if you be not he that wrote this part of your booke as by the crossing and changing of your owne assertions it is euident to euery wise man you did not but otherwise if the quoting of other mens authoritie to prooue Hades to be heauen may conuince you to be of that mind with them whom you cite for that purpose you haue most plainely auouched hades to import and containe heauen Whose words are these I pray you in your Treatise This most singular place sheweth that Hades with them is not properly for hell but for the world of the dead and SOMETIMES AS NAMELY HEERE EVEN FOR HEAVEN So in the next page Againe he saith of heauen that it is an vnseene estate EVEN HADES AS IT IS COMMONLY CALLED Wherefore it is plaine by Plato Hades sometime may bee vnderstood for heauen yea and with the Grecians it was a common phrase And Stephan â—…iteth Plutarch concerning the godly departing being in hades that is in heauen he meant I thinke and not in hell Infinite places might be brought to like purpose but these may suffice which whether they you by them auouch hades to be taken for heauen or no I leaue to the iudgement of the Reader as also whether this be not impudent facing and worthy of other wordes at which you take so much offence Yea this very Article Christ dâ—…scended to Hades you expound by pretence of Bullingers wordes he did goe to Abrahams â—…osome that is into heauen That you auouch Philip. 2. for it is more strange where we haue not one word of his locall being in hell And that the Coloss. 2. should prooue it passeth all the rest Where though we graunt you your reading yet the expresse text referreth that triumph to Christes crosse which you openly deny You doe well to make an Apologie for your impudency and facing the next sentence before but if you reclaime those tâ—…ades of yours you renounce the most part of your obiections and probations in this your defence For doe I cite either of these places in the Pages which you quote to prooue Christes descent after death to the place of hell When you in your proud and scorneâ—…ull humour mocked at Christes actuall conquest and tâ—…iumph ouer hell in generall and called it a woorthie priuiledge surely and very honâ—…rable 〈◊〉 to â—…iumph and insult vpon the â—…ice miserable wofull wretches in their preâ—…t vnâ—…eakable damnation adding All the world knoweth it is the most in glorious and vilest debasing to represse this disdainfull and proud conceit of yours I told you The Apostle made it a part of Christes high exaltation that euerie knec as well of things vnder earth as of things in heanen should bow vnto him and did you thinke it a matter to be mocked and derided and of the place to the Colossians I said What lâ—…iteth then since these wordes were not verified on the crosse but they did take place in his resurrection and therein as by the effects it was most euident and apparant to the eies of all men he did spoile powers and Principalities and made a shew of them openly and triumphed ouer them in his owne person When I speake of things euident and apparent to all mens eies I speake not of things done in hell where no man liuing was present but prooued against you as well by your own wordes as by the Apostles that this triumph was not perfourmed and executed on the crosse though there deserued and purchased For you your selfe debase Christs triumph on the crosse with woorse wordes then I doe you say it was a miserable triumph yea a piteous triumph it was indeede where himselfe remained in such woefull torment where appeared no shew of conquest I say not so but that on the crosse Christ humbled himselfe euen vnto death and thereby merited to be exalted aboue all names and sorts of creatures which God after death most gloriously perfourmed vnto him when euerie knee of those in heauen on earth and vnder earth bowed vnto him and confessed him to be their Lord. This was all I said in those places which you traduce and yet if I had said more and applied them to the actuall triumph of Christes soule after death I wanted not better authoritie so to haue done then you haue any for so many cart-loades of concâ—…its as you haue brought vs. But of both these places I haue spoken before what may suâ—…ce and he that will see more thereof may read what Zanchius hath learnedly and soberly written of those places Ephes. 4. vers 9. and Coloss. 2. vers 15. Where he likewise affirmeth Patres serè sic explicant ex nostris non pauci neque vulgares The Fathers for the most part doe so expound it and of our writers not a few nor the meanest That of the Councels how Christ rose againe hauing spoiled hell I easily yeeld seeing that prooueth not his locall being there Then first you yeeld that Hades with all these generall Councels signifieth hell Next you yeeld that hell was spoyled by Christ before he rose for he rose hauing spoyled hell Thirdly you yeeld that this was done by Christes manhood since his Godhead can be said in no wise to rise from the dead and consequently by his soule since he spoiled hell before he rose when yet his bodie was dead in the graue There remaineth no more but this question whether the soule of Christdid this absent from the place or present in the place which was spoiled And since the scriptures auouch that Christs soule was in Hades which was spoiled as these three generall Councels assirme it is without question that Christes soule present in hell spoiled hell before his resurrection and so returned to his bodie which is the very point you all this while denied and with so much lost labour impugned And least this cause should depend on your slipper turnes and returnes we must vnderstand that not only the generall Councell of Ephesus confirmed and allowed these wordes in the Synodall Epistle of Cyrill to Nestorius but the Councell of Chalcedon and the second Councell of Constantinople ratified the same So that what sense Cyrill had in these wordes the same did the Councell of Ephesus follow Cyrill himselfe there sitting and declaring his owne meaning Yea the Treatises of Cyrill expounding these wordes are inserted into the Acts of the Councell of