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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A42357	Protesters no subverters, and presbyterie no papacie; or, A vindication of the protesting brethren, and of the government of the kirk of Scotland from the aspersions unjustly cast upon them, in a late pamphlet of some of the resolution-party, entituled, A declaration, &c. With a discovery of the insufficiency, inequality and iniquity of the things propounded in that pamphlet, as overtures of union and peace. Especially, of the iniquity of that absolute and unlimited submission to the sentences of church-judicatories that is holden forth therein, and most unjustly pleaded to belong to the being and essence of presbyterial government. By some witnesses to the way of the protestation.	Guthrie, James, 1612?-1661, attributed name.	1658 (1658)	Wing G2264; ESTC R221886	66,607	126

thou preach not the Gospel and hath commanded him to eat of His body and drink of His bloud and not to forsake the assembling himself with the Saints of God yet because men pro arbitratu imperio yea because of his adhering to the Truth of God which they have rejected and condemned hath forbidden him so to do That be shall not obey God this is a hard saying who can receive it It is also contary to clear Scripture precedents Ieremiah was often commanded by the Authority both Ecclesiastick and Civil to forbear speaking of the Word of the Lord yet did he give no subjection to the sentence either of the one or of the other but went on in his Ministrie notwithstanding of all the Inhibitions and Censures past against him Chap. 26. ch. 32. ch. 37. and ch. 38. Amos was commanded by Amaziah the Priest to prophesie no more at Bethel because it was the Kings Chappell and the Kings Court yet he did not submit but did counteract that commandment and did continue to prophesie in the Name of the Lord Amos 5. 13 14 15 16. Daniel was commanded to make no petition to any God or Man for thirtie dayes save to King Darius yet did he not submit but counteract by going into his house and opening his Chamber-window towards Ierusalem and kneeling on his knees three times a day and praying and giving thanks before His God as he did aforetime Dan. 6 6 7 8 9 10. The Iews did agree that if any man did confesse that Jesus was the Christ he should be put out of the Synagogue yet did the poor man whose eyes He had opened confesse Him openly and though he was actually cast out for doing of it yet did he not submit but went on to confesse Him still Joh. 9. 22 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38. The Apostles were commanded once and again by the Council at Ierusalem not to speak nor teach any more in the Name of JESUS but they told them that they could not but speak the things which they had seen and heard and that they ought to obey God rather then men and notwithstanding they were first threatened and afterwards imprisoned and thirdly beaten by them for so doing yet did they not submit nor forbear but daily in the Temple and from house to house they ceased not to teach and preach Jesus Christ Act. 4. 19 20 21. Act. 5. 17 18 29 40 42. Paul being accused first before Festus and afterwards before Felix the Roman Deputies That he was a pestilent fellow and a mover of sedition amongst the Iews throughout the world and a ring-leader of the Sect of the Nazarens who also had gone about to profane the Temple Did not only appeal to Cesar but went on in his course and preached the Gospel and preached that the Iews killed the Lord Jesus and their own Prophets and persecuted the Apostles and pleased not God and were contrary to all men Act. 24. 5 6. Act. 25. 7 8 9 10. 1 Thess. 2. 15. 3. This submission dethroneth Jesus Christ who only hath power over the consciences of men to bind them by His Authority by attributing such a Power and Authority to Church-Judicatorics as doth bind mens consciences upon their meer arbitrement and pleasure for we must be subject because they will have it so though the reason why they command this subjection to wit our supposed delinquencie be a meer non ens and such as hath no foundation in truth and equity If it be told us that the conscience is not bound because the judgement is still left free and the outward acts only restrained We would have our Brethren to remember that some of themselves and others who did oppose conformity to the Ceremonies did tell the Prelats and their party when they used this defence against the argument taken from binding the conscience to wit That if the bare Authority of an Ecclesiasticall Law without any other reason then the will and pleasure of men be made to restrain us in the use of things which are in themselves indifferent then is Christian liberty taken away and if so in things indifferent how much more is it so in things necessary such as keeping fellowship with the Assembly of the Saints in publick Prayers and Praises and eating and drinking at the Table of the Lord and preaching the Gospel c the practice whereof are things commanded of God unto persons duely qualified and instructed thereunto If it be said That these things cease to be obliging duties to such a person hic nunc and that the sentence of the Church commanding him to abstain looseth him from the obedience that he doth otherwise owe unto the Commandment of God we desire a warrant from the Scripture of Truth for such Doctrine as that which preferreth the Commandments of men unto the Commandments of God and say That it is better to obey men than God Shall the sole will and meer pleasures of men loose a man from the obligation he oweth unto the Commandments of God If so let us no more blame the Pope for dispensing with divine Laws I cannot abstain from taking Christ's body and bloud or from preaching the Gospel saith the innocent man unjustly sentenced because I am thereunto called and commanded of God But saith the Synod or Kirk-judicatory We have commanded you to abstain and therefore you should abstain and may be satisfied in your conscience so to do because our Command looseth you from the Commandment of God Hence a fourth Argument 4. This submission concludeth a man under a necessity of sinning against God by omitting those necessary duties that are commanded him of God upon a non-relevant reason to wit the meer will and pleasure of men to whom God hath given no power against the Truth but for the Truth no power to destruction but to edification 5. If such a submission be due to the Judicatories of the Kirk in matters of Discipline and Government We do not see how it is not also due unto them in matters of Doctrine and Worship The authoritative and juridical power belonging to Classes and Synods is threefold Dogmatick Diatactick and Critick Dogmatick in reference to matters of Faith and Rules of Worship which God hath laid down and prescribed to us in His Word and the inconsistency of heresies errors and corruptions therewith Diatactick in reference to external order and policy in matters circumstantial relating to time place and persons the conveniency whereof is determinable by the light of Nature and Christian prudence and the general Rules of the Word such as these That we should do all to the glory of God to the edification of the Church and in order and decency c. Critick in reference to the repressing of Scandal Error Heresie Schism Obstinacie and Contempt and preserving of the Purity of the Truth and Holinesse of Conversation and Unity of Judgment and Affection in the Church of God by exercising the spiritual

all sentences whether just or unjust or agreeable or repugnant to the Word of God should be asserted to be at all of kin or alliance to the divine Ordinance of Presbyterial Government which is a part of the sweet and gentle yoke of Jesus Christ that is far from tyranny and oppression The man who in a raving fit of a notional spirit first preached and afterward printed those shrewd comparisons betwixt the Northern Pr●…sbyterie and the Roman Papacie may haply think himself now justified when he heareth so great pretenders to that Government minister by this new doctrine of theirs such ground for some parts of that comparison If Presbyterial Government hath as we do believe and assert it to have its foundation in the Testament of Jesus Christ upon whose shoulder the Government is then whatsoever is of the essence and being thereof must derive it self from the fountain of Christ's revealed Will about the Constitution and Essentials of that Government But we know no tittle in his Book that saith as our Brethren say or from which what they say in this matter can be deduced by good and necessary consequence to wit that it is essential to the Government which He hath appointed His House to be ruled by that all the Children of the House should submit unto and acquiesce in the Determination of the Governors without any counteracting though their Sentence be contrary to the Law and the Testimony and therefore till our Brethren prove thi●… they will give us leave to deny it We acknowledge that power and authority and subjection and submission are co-relatives and that the power and authority of the superiour can no more actually subsist without the subjection and submission of the inferiour than one relative can subsist withou●… its co-relative But all Church-power and authority is bounded by the Word of God and is for edification only And therefore all the subjection that is due thereunto is in the Lord only And when we are thus subject the power and authority is sufficiently acknowledged and preserved But say our Brethren without this submission which they plead for our established Judicatories would be nothing but consultative meetings But this we also deny because what is resolved and determined by Kirk-Judicatories in a right way doth not only bind by vertue of the intrinsecal lawfulnesse thereof ●…t being for matter God's Word and by vertue o●… the reverence that is due to the gifts and endowments of brethren and friends counselling right things which is all that can be attributed to a consultative meeting but also by vertue of a positive Law of God by which He hath commanded us to hear the Church and those that sit in Moses Chair and to be subject in the Lord to Church-Governours to whom He hath given a Ministerial and Official Authority and Power to assemble in His Name in the respective Courts appointed by Himself for governing His House according to the rule of His Word And therefore as they have Authority or a superiority of Jurisdiction which no consultative meeting hath So whosoever resisteth their power when put forth to edification and not to destruction doth not only sin by despising that Word of God which is the matter of their Decree and by despising the gifts and graces of their Brethren that are exercised in holding forth light unto them but doth also sin by resisting the Ordinance of God A Kirk-judicatory modelled according to the patern shewed in the Mount and cloathed with Authority from Jesus Christ and proceeding according to the Law and to the Testimony to which they ought to be subject God having commanded us so to do Their second Reason is That without this submission and subordination they do not see how Unity and Order can be continued in the Kirk It being in vain to think of a remedy by superiour Iudicatories without this the refusing thereof being the way to make all Union void So in their Answer to the Queries propounded upon their Overtures Novemb. 16 1655. And in their Represent pag. 39. sect. 4. and pag. 47. sect. 3. Answ. This is the very argument and language of the Advocates of the Sea of Rome whilst they plead the Popes visible headship and irrefragable authority and jurisdiction over the Church to which all ought to submit without gainsaying or counteracting the very thing that hath set up the Man of sin to sit a●… God in the Temple of God unto the enslaving both of the Word of God and the consciences of men by requiring of them subjection and blind obedience to his dictates without examining the same according to the light of the Word If according to the revealed Will of God there ought to be such a submission in all cases without counteracting What shall we say of the practices of the Prophets and Apostles and others of the Servants of God who have lived before us in corrupt times must all their preachings and other actings though most agreeable to the Word of God be condemned because they were contrary to the 〈◊〉 of the Church wherein they lived 〈◊〉 were indeed to set up a power over the Word 〈◊〉 God a power for destruction and not for 〈◊〉 That would indeed make a sinfull unity a●… order and teach a way to avoid persecution an readily to obtain peace with men but with 〈◊〉 losse of Truth and a good conscience The wa●… to preserve Unity and Order in the House of Go●… is not to hearken to the counsels of flesh an●… bloud by setting up the will of man for a La●… and establishing an arbitrary and tyrannica●… power over consciences to which they shall b●… tyed to submit to iniquity and injustice for Go●… hath said that the 〈◊〉 of iniquity that framet●… mischief into a law shall have no fellowship wit●… Him And therefore that may destroy Unity an●… Order it will not preserve it But to let the Wor●… of God which is both the rule and bond of Unit●… and Order have place Gal. 6. 16. and Judicatories proceeding according to this is an effectua remedy actu primo and objective as in every Ordinance of Christ albeit actu secundo there is n●… efficacious remedy in either Word Sacraments Admonitions Suspension Deposition Excommunications Presbyteries Synods or any Ordinance the Church doth injoy or can exercise without the effectual blessing and influence of the Spirit of God who is the author and appointer o●… these and concurreth therewith upon the consciences of men according to the pleasure of His own will Shall persons sentenced unjustly submit Yes say our Brethren for preserving Unity and Order What remedy then say we for preserving the Truth They may appeal say they But say we they have appealed and have therein succumbed What remedy now No remedy but that at one stroke the precious Truths of God and interests of Jesus Christ must be born down and buried in oblivion And the Saints and Ministers of the Gospel be buried under the rubbish thereof