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ID Title Author Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication) STC Words Pages
A61550 The doctrine of the Trinity and transubstantiation compared as to Scripture, reason, and tradition. The first part in a new dialogue between a Protestant and a papist : wherein an answer is given to the late proofs of the antiquity of transubstantiation in the books called Consensus veterum and Nubes testium, &c. Stillingfleet, Edward, 1635-1699. 1688 (1688) Wing S5589; ESTC R14246 60,900 98

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in_o the_o one_o be_v intrinsical_a and_o substantial_a the_o other_o extrinsical_a and_o accidental_a and_o that_o hypostasis_fw-la be_v the_o same_o with_o the_o divine_a nature_n and_o yet_o be_v most_o close_o unite_v with_o the_o human_a nature_n which_o be_v so_o different_a from_o the_o divine_a so_o that_o it_o be_v incomprehensible_a by_o we_o how_o in_o that_o union_n the_o nature_n be_v not_o confound_v or_o the_o hypostasis_fw-la divide_v pr._n suppose_v now_o we_o grant_v all_o this_o that_o there_o be_v a_o incomprehensible_a mystery_n in_o the_o incarnation_n what_o follow_v from_o thence_o have_v i_o not_o hitherto_o own_v that_o there_o must_v be_v something_o incomprehensible_a by_o we_o in_o what_o relate_v to_o the_o divine_a nature_n and_o it_o be_v the_o less_o wonder_n it_o be_v so_o in_o the_o incarnation_n wherein_o a_o union_n be_v imply_v between_o a_o infinite_a and_o finite_a nature_n when_o the_o union_n of_o the_o soul_n and_o body_n though_o both_o finite_a be_v above_o our_o comprehension_n though_o we_o ourselves_o consist_v of_o soul_n and_o body_n so_o unite_v but_o what_o consequence_n be_v it_o if_o we_o be_v not_o able_a to_o explain_v this_o that_o then_o we_o must_v admit_v that_o the_o same_o body_n may_v be_v not_o mere_o in_o two_o but_o in_o ten_o thousand_o place_n at_o the_o the_o same_o time_n i._o e._n if_o we_o can_v explain_v the_o hypostatical_a union_n than_o all_o manner_n of_o absurdity_n must_v go_v down_o with_o we_o that_o relate_v to_o thing_n of_o a_o very_a different_a nature_n from_o it_o p._n i_o be_o glad_a to_o find_v you_o be_v set_v at_o last_o and_o that_o now_o you_o have_v a_o difficulty_n before_o you_o which_o you_o can_v never_o get_v through_o pr._n be_v not_o too_o confident_a i_o have_v only_o hitherto_o deny_v the_o consequence_n as_o to_o the_o difficulty_n of_o transubstantiation_n but_o it_o be_v possible_a that_o set_v aside_o the_o confusion_n of_o school-term_n i_o may_v be_v 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nature_n p._n but_o the_o manner_n of_o the_o hypostatical_a union_n be_v impossible_a to_o be_v conceive_v pr._n let_v the_o thing_n be_v grant_v possible_a and_o the_o difficulty_n of_o conceive_v the_o manner_n may_v be_v as_o great_a in_o the_o union_n of_o soul_n and_o body_n will_v you_o undertake_v to_o explain_v that_o to_o i_o and_o yet_o i_o hope_v you_o believe_v it_o but_o let_v we_o hear_v your_o difficulty_n again_o which_o you_o object_n from_o bellarmine_n p._n that_o there_o shall_v be_v but_o one_o hypostasis_fw-la in_o two_o nature_n and_o that_o in_o the_o union_n the_o nature_n shall_v not_o be_v confound_v nor_o the_o hypostasis_fw-la divide_v pr._n all_o these_o difficulty_n arise_v from_o the_o sense_n of_o the_o word_n hypostasis_fw-la which_o original_o signify_v a_o real_a be_v and_o not_o such_o which_o depend_v only_o on_o fancy_n and_o imagination_n from_o thence_o its_o signification_n be_v enlarge_v not_o only_o to_o thing_n real_a in_o opposition_n to_o 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one_o hypostasis_fw-la in_o christ_n i._n e._n one_o person_n though_o there_o be_v two_o nature_n p._n but_o our_o divine_n say_v that_o the_o humane_a nature_n after_o the_o union_n have_v no_o hypostasis_fw-la it_o be_v swallow_v up_o by_o the_o divine_a pr._n i_o know_v they_o do_v but_o if_o they_o mean_v that_o the_o humane_a nature_n after_o the_o union_n lose_v that_o subsistence_n which_o be_v proper_a to_o the_o humane_a nature_n it_o be_v impossible_a for_o they_o to_o avoid_v the_o eutychian_a heresy_n condemn_v by_o the_o council_n of_o chalcedon_n but_o if_o they_o mean_v no_o more_o than_o that_o there_o be_v a_o true_a nature_n but_o no_o person_n save_v only_o that_o which_o result_v from_o both_o nature_n they_o then_o agree_v with_o the_o sense_n of_o the_o church_n which_o condemn_v the_o eutychian_o for_o as_o much_o as_o the_o heresy_n of_o nestorius_n and_o eutyches_n differ_v in_o themselves_o they_o be_v both_o build_v on_o the_o same_o ground_n viz._n that_o there_o can_v be_v no_o true_a nature_n but_o there_o must_v be_v a_o person_n and_o that_o two_o nature_n can_v not_o make_v one_o person_n from_o whence_o nestorius_n assert_v there_o be_v two_o person_n in_o christ_n and_o eutyches_n deny_v that_o there_o be_v two_o nature_n p._n what_o do_v all_o this_o signify_v but_o that_o the_o authority_n of_o the_o church_n must_v determine_v whether_o there_o be_v two_o nature_n or_o two_o person_n in_o christ_n pr._n it_o seem_v then_o the_o whole_a business_n wherein_o the_o general_a council_n be_v so_o warm_o concern_v be_v only_o to_o make_v a_o ecclesiastical_a dictionary_n and_o to_o appoint_v what_o word_n be_v to_o be_v use_v and_o what_o not_o do_v you_o think_v then_o there_o be_v no_o such_o real_a heresy_n as_o nestorianism_n and_o eutychianism_n but_o only_o they_o happen_v to_o take_v the_o word_n nature_n and_o person_n in_o another_o sense_n than_o the_o church_n will_v have_v man_n use_v they_o p._n i_o trust_v the_o 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no_o creature_n can_v deserve_v divine_a worship_n and_o he_o deliver_v that_o as_o part_v of_o his_o own_o doctrine_n and_o therefore_o those_o word_n where_o he_o be_v say_v to_o make_v himself_o equal_a with_o god_n must_v be_v understand_v of_o nature_n and_o not_o of_o office._n p._n but_o st._n john_n 17._o 22._o say_v that_o christ_n pray_v to_o his_o father_n for_o his_o disciple_n that_o they_o may_v be_v one_o as_o we_o be_v one_o and_o that_o be_v not_o by_o unity_n of_o nature_n pr._n i_o grant_v it_o but_o our_o saviour_n there_o speak_v of_o a_o true_a but_o a_o low_a kind_n of_o unity_n or_o else_o the_o socinian_o must_v think_v every_o believer_n as_o capable_a of_o divine_a honour_n as_o christ_n himself_o if_o they_o take_v those_o word_n strict_o that_o they_o may_v be_v one_o as_o we_o be_v one_o p._n st._n paul_n say_v he_o that_o plant_v and_o he_o that_o water_v be_v one_o 1_o cor._n 3._o 8._o pr._n who_o doubt_v but_o there_o be_v other_o sort_n of_o unity_n beside_o that_o of_o nature_n but_o do_v this_o prove_v that_o there_o be_v no_o unity_n of_o nature_n between_o the_o father_n and_o the_o son_n if_o we_o have_v no_o better_a argument_n against_o transubstantiation_n we_o will_v give_v over_o dispute_v p._n i_o know_v you_o have_v other_o argument_n for_o the_o trinity_n but_o they_o prove_v as_o little_a without_o the_o authority_n of_o the_o church_n as_o from_o those_o place_n where_o christ_n be_v call_v god_n as_o joh._n 1._o 1_o 2._o rom._n 9_o 5_o etc._n etc._n pr._n and_o i_o think_v the_o argument_n from_o those_o place_n very_o good_a and_o strong_a especial_o from_o john_n 1._o 1_o 2_o 3._o and_o it_o seem_v direct_o contrary_a to_o the_o whole_a design_n of_o scripture_n to_o call_v any_o one_o god_n over_o all_o bless_v for_o evermore_o as_o christ_n be_v call_v rom._n 9_o 5._o but_o he_o that_o be_v god_n by_o natuce_n p._n how_o do_v you_o prove_v that_o john_n 1._o 1._o relate_v to_o any_o thing_n beyond_o the_o begin_n of_o the_o gospel_n and_o that_o christ_n the_o word_n be_v before_o john_n the_o baptist_n preach_v pr._n i_o desire_v any_o one_o to_o read_v the_o text_n impartial_o and_o he_o will_v find_v the_o socinian_n sense_n to_o be_v unnatural_a force_v obscure_a and_o jejune_n prove_v a_o thing_n of_o no_o moment_n at_o that_o time_n but_o the_o sense_n we_o give_v to_o be_v strong_a weighty_a consistent_a and_o of_o very_o great_a consequence_n at_o that_o time_n when_o the_o cerinthian_o deny_v the_o divinity_n of_o christ._n the_o sentence_n be_v short_a the_o word_n lofty_a and_o significant_a the_o manner_n of_o beginning_n unusual_a so_o that_o any_o one_o will_v expect_v some_o great_a and_o extraordinary_a matter_n to_o be_v say_v in_o these_o few_o verse_n but_o what_o a_o frustration_n be_v this_o if_o after_o all_o they_o intend_v no_o more_o than_o that_o although_o john_n baptist_n preach_v in_o public_a before_o christ_n yet_o that_o christ_n be_v in_o be_v before_o that_o which_o be_v a_o sense_n so_o mean_a so_o remote_a from_o the_o occasion_n of_o his_o write_n as_o it_o be_v deliver_v by_o the_o ancient_n that_o nothing_o but_o a_o miserable_a necessity_n can_v make_v man_n of_o wit_n and_o subtlety_n to_o put_v such_o a_o sense_n upon_o st._n john_n word_n p._n but_o they_o deny_v there_o be_v any_o such_o occasion_n of_o st._n john_n writing_n as_o the_o cerinthian_o heresy_n at_o that_o time_n pr._n i_o know_v socinus_n do_v so_o but_o he_o may_v as_o well_o have_v deny_v that_o there_o be_v any_o such_o person_n as_o cerinthus_n and_o i_o think_v the_o cerinthian_a heresy_n not_o only_o to_o have_v be_v the_o occasion_n of_o st._n john_n write_n but_o that_o the_o understanding_n of_o it_o give_v the_o great_a and_o true_a light_n to_o the_o word_n of_o the_o evangelist_n show_v the_o force_n and_o importance_n of_o they_o p._n wherein_o i_o pray_v do_v that_o heresy_n consist_v pr._n i_o shall_v not_o meddle_v with_o other_o part_n of_o it_o but_o only_o what_o relate_v to_o the_o present_a subject_n and_o that_o lay_v in_o these_o thing_n 1._o that_o there_o be_v a_o supreme_a and_o unknown_a father_n who_o be_v before_o the_o beginning_n and_o therefore_o they_o call_v he_o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d who_o be_v the_o fountain_n of_o all_o emanation_n iren._n l._n 1._o c._n 1._o 19_o 2._o that_o the_o world_n be_v not_o make_v by_o he_o but_o by_o a_o power_n at_o a_o distance_n from_o he_o call_v demiurgus_n iren._n l._n 1._o c._n 25._o and_o in_o the_o egyptian_a school_n where_o cerinthus_n be_v educate_v the_o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d word_n be_v one_o of_o the_o intermediate_v emanation_n between_o the_o father_n and_o the_o demiurgus_n iren._n l._n 1._o c._n 23._o 3._o that_o this_o world_n be_v in_o a_o state_n of_o darkness_n and_o confusion_n as_o to_o the_o supreme_a father_n of_o all_o only_o some_o few_o have_v some_o beam_n of_o light_n from_o he_o by_o which_o they_o know_v he_o 4._o that_o jesus_n be_v a_o mere_a man_n bear_v as_o other_o man_n be_v of_o joseph_n and_o mary_n but_o of_o extraordinary_a goodness_n wisdom_n and_o sanctity_n 5._o that_o the_o supreme_a father_n at_o his_o baptism_n do_v send_v down_o a_o divine_a power_n upon_o he_o in_o the_o shape_n of_o a_o dove_n which_o enable_v he_o to_o declare_v the_o unknown_a father_n and_o to_o work_v miracle_n which_o return_v to_o its_o own_o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d or_o fullness_n above_o when_o jesus_n suffer_v this_o be_v a_o short_a scheme_n of_o that_o heresy_n as_o deliver_v by_o the_o ancient_a father_n and_o now_o let_v any_o one_o compare_n st._n john_n word_n with_o it_o and_o he_o will_v find_v his_o design_n be_v to_o countermine_v this_o heresy_n by_o two_o thing_n 1._o that_o the_o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d word_n be_v eternal_a for_o the_o cerinthian_o say_v the_o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d be_v not_o in_o the_o beginning_n but_o make_v a_o great_a space_n of_o time_n between_o the_o eternal_a be_v of_o the_o father_n and_o the_o emanation_n of_o the_o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d wherein_o he_o be_v in_o perfect_a silence_n as_o irenoeus_n express_v it_o l._n 1._o c._n 1._o and_o so_o in_o the_o beginning_n do_v imply_v the_o eternity_n of_o the_o word_n but_o that_o be_v not_o all_o for_o he_o say_v it_o be_v with_o god_n and_o be_v god_n and_o be_v the_o demiurgus_n or_o the_o maker_n of_o the_o world_n and_o the_o revealer_n of_o god_n to_o mankind_n joh._n 1._o 1_o 2_o 3_o 4_o 5_o 9_o 10._o and_o so_o there_o be_v no_o place_n for_o those_o several_a emanation_n between_o god_n and_o the_o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d and_o demiurgus_n as_o the_o cerinthian_o say_v 2._o that_o the_o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d or_o word_n be_v incarnate_a which_o he_o affirm_v v_o 14._o and_o the_o word_n be_v make_v flesh_n and_o dwell_v among_o we_o etc._n etc._n and_o be_v the_o only_o beget_v son_n of_o the_o father_n and_o so_o he_o not_o only_o cut_v off_o the_o 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or_o licence_n the_o popish_a book_n in_o england_n particular_o to_o those_o of_o the_o jesuit_n order_n concern_v lewis_n sabran_n a_o jesuit_n a_o preservative_n against_o popery_n be_v some_o plain_a direction_n to_o unlearned_a protestant_n how_o to_o dispute_v with_o romish_a priest_n the_o first_o part._n the_o four_o edition_n the_o second_o part_n of_o the_o preservative_n against_o popery_n show_v how_o contrary_a popery_n be_v to_o the_o true_a end_n of_o the_o christian_a religion_n fit_v for_o the_o instruction_n of_o unlearned_a protestant_n the_o second_o edition_n a_o vindication_n of_o both_o part_n of_o the_o preservative_n against_o popery_n in_o answer_n to_o the_o cavil_n of_o lewis_n sabran_n jesuit_n a_o discourse_n concern_v the_o nature_n unity_n ae_v communion_n of_o the_o catholic_n church_n wherein_o most_o of_o the_o controversy_n relate_v to_o the_o church_n be_v brief_o and_o plain_o state_v the_o first_o part._n 4to_fw-la these_o four_o last_o by_o william_n sherlock_n d._n d._n master_n of_o the_o temple_n imprimatur_fw-la guil._n needham_n
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work_v hitherto_o and_o i_o work_v v_o 17._o the_o jew_n infer_v v_o 18._o that_o he_o make_v himself_o equal_a with_o god._n in_o the_o second_o conference_n john_n 8._o he_o say_v before_o abraham_n be_v i_o be_o v_o 58._o and_o then_o the_o jew_n take_v up_o stone_n to_o cast_v at_o he_o after_o this_o follow_v this_o three_o conference_n john._n 10._o and_o this_o run_v again_o into_o the_o same_o point_n that_o he_o be_v a_o man_n make_v himself_o god._n and_o these_o conference_n be_v all_o public_a in_o or_o near_o the_o temple_n and_o this_o last_o be_v in_o solomon_n porch_n john_n 10._o 23._o a_o place_n of_o great_a resort_n and_o near_o the_o place_n where_o the_o sanhedrim_n sit_v who_o be_v the_o judge_n in_o the_o case_n of_o blasphemy_n now_o the_o force_n of_o my_o argument_n from_o hence_o lie_v in_o these_o thing_n 1._o that_o christ_n certain_o know_v that_o the_o jew_n do_v think_v by_o his_o discourse_n that_o he_o make_v himself_o equal_a with_o god._n 2._o that_o if_o it_o be_v not_o true_a it_o be_v notorious_a blasphemy_n and_o so_o esteem_v by_o the_o jew_n 3._o that_o such_o a_o mistake_n ought_v to_o have_v be_v present_o correct_v and_o in_o the_o plain_a manner_n as_o we_o find_v it_o be_v do_v by_o st._n paul_n when_o the_o man_n of_o lystra_n say_v the_o god_n be_v come_v down_o to_o we_o in_o the_o likeness_n of_o man_n for_o he_o run_v in_o present_o among_o they_o and_o say_v we_o be_v man_n of_o like_a passion_n with_o you_o act_v 14._o 11_o 15._o it_o be_v impossible_a for_o i_o to_o think_v that_o if_o christ_n have_v know_v himself_o to_o be_v a_o mere_a man_n he_o will_v have_v suffer_v the_o jew_n to_o have_v run_v away_o with_o such_o a_o mistake_n as_o this_o without_o give_v they_o the_o clear_a and_o plain_a information_n whereas_o in_o all_o his_o answer_n he_o vindicate_v himself_o and_o endeavour_n rather_o to_o fasten_v those_o impression_n upon_o they_o as_o appear_v by_o this_o conclusion_n of_o the_o last_o conference_n that_o you_o may_v know_v and_o believe_v that_o the_o father_n be_v in_o i_o and_o i_o in_o he_o do_v this_o look_n like_o correct_v a_o dangerous_a mistake_n in_o the_o jew_n and_o be_v it_o not_o rather_o a_o justification_n of_o that_o sense_n which_o they_o take_v his_o word_n in_o and_o in_o the_o first_o conference_n john_n 5._o our_o saviour_n be_v so_o far_o from_o do_v as_o st._n paul_n do_v that_o he_o challenge_v divine_a honour_n as_o due_a to_o himself_o that_o all_o man_n shall_v honour_v the_o son_n as_o they_o honour_v the_o father_n v_o 23._o from_o whence_o it_o follow_v that_o christ_n must_v be_v charge_v as_o one_o who_o be_v a_o mere_a man_n do_v affect_v divine_a honour_n or_o else_o that_o be_v god_n as_o well_o as_o man_n he_o look_v on_o it_o as_o just_o due_a to_o he_o i_o pray_v tell_v i_o what_o sense_n do_v your_o friend_n the_o socinian_o make_v of_o those_o word_n of_o st._n paul_n phil._n 2._o 6_o 7._o who_o be_v in_o the_o form_n of_o god_n think_v it_o not_o robbery_n to_o be_v equal_a with_o god_n but_o make_v himself_o of_o no_o reputation_n etc._n etc._n p._n the_o sense_n they_o give_v be_v this_o that_o he_o do_v not_o make_v a_o show_n or_o ostentation_n of_o his_o own_o greatness_n but_o studious_o conceal_v it_o and_o therein_o show_v his_o great_a humility_n pr._n but_o be_v there_o any_o greatness_n like_o that_o of_o divine_a honour_n and_o yet_o this_o he_o challenge_v to_o himself_o p._n but_o he_o know_v what_o the_o father_n design_v he_o for_o and_o so_o speak_v those_o thing_n by_o way_n of_o prediction_n pr._n he_o know_v
pr._n then_o be_v extend_v and_o divisible_a be_v the_o natural_a and_o essential_a property_n of_o a_o body_n and_o therefore_o to_o suppose_v a_o body_n not_o to_o be_v extend_v and_o divisible_a be_v to_o suppose_v it_o not_o to_o be_v a_o body_n which_o be_v a_o plain_a contradiction_n p._n you_o be_v to_o distinguish_v between_o the_o intrinsecal_n quantity_n which_o be_v a_o inseparable_a property_n of_o a_o body_n and_o the_o extrinsical_a relation_n it_o have_v to_o a_o place_n pr._n intrinsical_a quantity_n without_o relation_n to_o place_n be_v intrinsical_v nonsense_n for_o how_o be_v it_o possible_a for_o extend_a part_n to_o have_v no_o relation_n to_o place_n p._n by_o relation_n to_o place_n i_o mean_v when_o the_o part_n of_o a_o body_n answer_v to_o the_o part_n of_o a_o place_n but_o by_o intrinsecal_n quantity_n i_o mean_v that_o there_o be_v the_o real_a order_n and_o proportion_n of_o part_n in_o the_o body_n itself_o but_o it_o do_v not_o fill_v up_o the_o place_n 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the_o same_o divine_a nature_n may_v be_v in_o several_a person_n be_v because_o it_o be_v infinite_a and_o therefore_o nothing_o can_v bound_v or_o discontinue_v it_o p._n you_o have_v talk_v much_o of_o contradiction_n be_v there_o any_o great_a about_o transubstantiation_n than_o that_o of_o eternal_a generation_n of_o the_o son_n in_o the_o mystery_n of_o the_o trinity_n for_o if_o it_o be_v not_o proper_a generation_n than_o you_o can_v infer_v from_o it_o that_o the_o son_n be_v of_o the_o same_o substance_n with_o the_o father_n if_o it_o be_v than_o it_o must_v be_v a_o proceed_n from_o not_o be_v to_o be_v and_o so_o a_o eternal_a generation_n be_v a_o contradiction_n pr._n it_o be_v a_o rule_n in_o common_a reason_n that_o all_o attribute_n must_v be_v understand_v according_a to_o the_o nature_n of_o the_o subject_n and_o therefore_o if_o the_o subject_a here_o speak_v of_o be_v of_o such_o a_o nature_n as_o to_o be_v uncapable_a of_o proceed_v from_o not_o be_v to_o be_v than_o whatever_o be_v affirm_v of_o it_o must_v be_v so_o understand_v as_o not_o to_o destroy_v its_o nature_n the_o term_n of_o generation_n alone_o be_v not_o it_o may_v be_v sufficient_a to_o prove_v the_o son_n coessential_a with_o the_o father_n because_o it_o may_v have_v be_v use_v improper_o and_o metaphorical_o but_o when_o from_o the_o scripture_n it_o otherwise_o appear_v that_o the_o son_n of_o god_n be_v the_o word_n be_v in_o the_o begin_n with_o god_n and_o be_v god_n john_n 1._o 1._o and_o we_o soon_o after_o find_v he_o call_v the_o only_o beget_v of_o the_o father_n ver._n 14._o and_o the_o only_o beget_v son_n ver._n 18._o we_o have_v reason_n to_o infer_v from_o hence_o his_o eternal_a generation_n which_o must_v not_o be_v understand_v in_o such_o a_o mean_a sense_n as_o be_v agreeable_a to_o creature_n but_o as_o it_o be_v consistent_a with_o the_o essential_a attribute_n of_o god_n of_o which_o necessary_a existence_n be_v one_o so_o that_o by_o eternal_a 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