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ID Title Author Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication) STC Words Pages
A85082 Sir Lucius Cary, late Lord Viscount of Falkland, his discourse of infallibility, with an answer to it: and his Lordships reply. Never before published. Together with Mr. Walter Mountague's letter concerning the changing his religion. / Answered by my Lord of Falkland. Falkland, Lucius Cary, Viscount, 1610?-1643.; Falkland, Lucius Cary, Viscount, 1610?-1643.; White, Thomas, 1593-1676.; Montagu, Walter, 1603?-1677.; Triplett, Thomas, 1602 or 3-1670. 1651 (1651) Wing F317; Thomason E634_1; ESTC R4128 179,640 346

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all_o the_o ancient_n that_o i_o can_v ever_o meet_v with_o be_v with_o the_o jesuite_n with_o a_o vnanimous_a consent_n and_o by_o they_o if_o they_o must_v be_v try_v by_o man_n as_o fallible_a as_o themselves_o it_o will_v have_v better_o agree_v with_o their_o own_o principle_n to_o have_v have_v both_o part_n judge_v after_o the_o pope_n let_v we_o hear_v bishop_n and_o almost_o cardinal_n fisher_n who_o be_v one_o of_o your_o own_o author_n and_o martyr_n can_v be_v think_v to_o prevaricate_v against_o that_o church_n for_o who_o defence_n he_o employ_v not_o only_o his_o ink_n but_o his_o blood_n his_o word_n be_v these_o there_o be_v many_o thing_n of_o which_o be_v no_o enquiry_n in_o the_o primitive_a church_n which_o yet_o upon_o doubt_n arise_v be_v now_o become_v perspicuous_a by_o the_o diligence_n of_o aftertime_n and_o that_o you_o may_v see_v that_o he_o speak_v of_o point_n of_o faith_n he_o add_v no_o orthodox_n man_n now_o doubt_n 496._o pag._n 496._o whether_o 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deny_v this_o bellarmine_n excuse_v pope_n john_n the_o 22_o because_o the_o church_n he_o mean_v i_o doubt_v not_o a_o general_a council_n have_v not_o then_o condemn_v it_o i_o desire_v to_o know_v why_o he_o shall_v not_o be_v condemn_v as_o well_o without_o one_o as_o many_o heretic_n that_o be_v hold_v so_o by_o their_o church_n yet_o condemn_v by_o none_o which_o if_o he_o make_v to_o be_v the_o rule_n of_o heresy_n it_o have_v be_v happy_a to_o have_v live_v before_o the_o council_n of_o nice_a when_o no_o opinion_n have_v be_v dam_n able_a but_o some_o against_o the_o apostle_n council_n at_o jerusalem_n because_o there_o have_v yet_o be_v no_o other_o general_a council_n at_o least_o why_o shall_v not_o i_o be_v excuse_v by_o the_o same_o reason_n though_o i_o believe_v not_o a_o council_n to_o be_v infallible_a since_o i_o never_o hear_v that_o any_o council_n have_v decree_v that_o they_o be_v so_o neither_o if_o it_o have_v can_v we_o be_v bind_v by_o that_o decree_n 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that_o shall_v inform_v he_o of_o the_o opinion_n of_o former_a time_n be_v certain_o inform_v themselves_o for_o true_o if_o the_o relation_n of_o pappias_n can_v cozen_v so_o far_o all_o the_o prime_a doctor_n of_o the_o christian_a church_n into_o a_o belief_n of_o the_o celebration_n of_o a_o thousand_o year_n after_o the_o resurredion_fw-la so_o as_o that_o no_o one_o of_o those_o two_o first_o age_n oppose_v it_o which_o appear_v plain_o enough_o because_o those_o that_o after_o rise_v up_o against_o this_o never_o quoat_v any_o thing_n for_o themselves_o before_o dionysius_n alexandrinus_n who_o live_v at_o least_o two_o hundred_o and_o fifty_o year_n after_o christ_n nay_o if_o those_o first_o man_n do_v not_o only_o believe_v it_o as_o probable_a but_o justine_n martyr_n say_v he_o hold_v it_o and_o so_o do_v all_o that_o be_v in_o all_o part_n orthodox_n christian_n 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d set_v it_o down_o direct_o for_o a_o tradition_n and_o relate_v the_o very_a word_n that_o christ_n use_v when_o he_o teach_v this_o which_o be_v plain_a than_o any_o other_o tradition_n be_v prove_v or_o say_v to_o be_v out_o of_o antiquity_n by_o they_o if_o i_o say_v these_o can_v be_v so_o deceive_v why_o may_v not_o other_o of_o the_o ancient_n as_o well_o be_v deceive_v in_o other_o point_n and_o then_o what_o certainty_n shall_v the_o learned_a have_v when_o after_o much_o labour_n they_o think_v they_o can_v make_v it_o appear_v that_o the_o ancient_n think_v any_o thing_n tradition_n that_o indeed_o it_o be_v so_o and_o that_o either_o the_o folly_n or_o the_o knavery_n of_o some_o pappias_n deceive_v they_o not_o i_o confess_v it_o make_v i_o think_v of_o some_o that_o tully_n speak_v of_o who_o arcem_fw-la amittunt_fw-la dum_fw-la propugnacula_fw-la defendunt_fw-la lose_v the_o fort_n whilst_o they_o defend_v the_o outwork_n for_o whilst_o they_o answer_v this_o way_n the_o argument_n of_o tradition_n for_o the_o opinion_n of_o the_o chiliast_n they_o make_v unuseful_a to_o themselves_o the_o force_n of_o tradition_n to_o prove_v any_o else_o by_o for_o which_o cause_n it_o be_v rather_o wise_o then_o honest_o do_v of_o they_o who_o before_o fevardentius_n set_v he_o forth_o leave_v out_o that_o part_n of_o irenaeus_n which_o we_o allege_v though_o we_o need_v it_o not_o much_o for_o many_o of_o the_o father_n take_v notice_n of_o this_o belief_n of_o his_o yet_o he_o justify_v himself_o for_o do_v it_o by_o say_v that_o if_o they_o leave_v out_o all_o error_n in_o the_o book_n they_o publish_v that_o be_v i_o suppose_v all_o opinion_n contrary_a to_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n bona_fw-la pars_fw-la scriptorum_fw-la patrum_fw-la orthodoxorum_fw-la evanesceret_fw-la a_o great_a part_n of_o the_o writing_n of_o the_o orthodox_n father_n must_v vanish_v away_o but_o the_o tradition_n that_o can_v be_v find_v out_o of_o ancient_n since_o their_o witness_v may_v deceive_v we_o have_v much_o less_o strength_n when_o they_o argue_v only_o thus_o sure_o so_o many_o will_v not_o say_v this_o be_v true_a if_o there_o be_v no_o tradition_n for_o they_o i_o will_v have_v you_o remember_v they_o can_v deliver_v their_o opinion_n possible_o but_o either_o before_o the_o controversy_n arise_v in_o the_o church_n upon_o some_o chance_n or_o after_o if_o before_o it_o be_v confess_v that_o they_o write_v not_o often_o cautious_o enough_o and_o so_o they_o answer_v all_o they_o seem_v to_o say_v for_o arrius_n and_o pelagius_n his_o faith_n before_o themselves_o and_o so_o consequent_o their_o controversy_n though_o it_o may_v be_v not_o their_o opinion_n arise_v if_o after_o then_o they_o answer_v often_o if_o any_o thing_n be_v by_o they_o at_o that_o time_n speak_v against_o they_o that_o the_o heat_n of_o disputation_n bring_v it_o from_o they_o and_o their_o resolution_n to_o oppose_v heretic_n enough_o i_o desire_v it_o may_v be_v lawful_a for_o we_o to_o answer_v so_o too_o either_o one_o of_o these_o former_a way_n or_o that_o it_o be_v as_o often_o they_o say_v too_o some_o hyperbole_n when_o they_o press_v we_o with_o the_o opinion_n of_o father_n at_o least_o i_o be_o sure_a if_o they_o may_v deceive_v we_o with_o say_v a_o thing_n be_v tradition_n when_o it_o be_v not_o we_o may_v be_v soon_o deceive_v if_o we_o will_v conclude_v it_o for_o a_o tradition_n when_o they_o speak_v it_o only_o as_o a_o truth_n and_o for_o aught_o appear_v their_o particular_a opinion_n beside_o if_o salvian_n compare_v the_o arrian_n with_o evil_a liver_n and_o that_o after_o they_o be_v condemn_v by_o a_o council_n extenuate_v by_o reason_n of_o their_o believe_a themselves_o in_o the_o right_a with_o much_o instance_n the_o fault_n of_o the_o arrian_n and_o say_v how_o they_o shall_v be_v punish_v in_o the_o day_n of_o judgement_n none_o
be_v but_o profitable_a and_o probable_a of_o the_o second_o sort_n that_o error_n shall_v come_v in_o it_o appear_v not_o hard_a to_o i_o especial_o in_o those_o age_n where_o want_n of_o print_v make_v book_n and_o consequent_o learn_v not_o so_o common_a as_o now_o it_o be_v where_o the_o few_o that_o do_v study_v busy_v themselves_o in_o school_n speculation_n only_o when_o the_o authority_n of_o a_o man_n of_o chief_a note_n have_v a_o more_o general_a influence_n than_o now_o it_o have_v and_o so_o as_o thucydides_n say_v the_o plague_n do_v in_o his_o time_n 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d the_o disease_n that_o first_o settle_v in_o the_o head_n easy_o pass_v through_o all_o the_o body_n consider_v how_o apt_a man_n be_v to_o desire_v that_o all_o man_n shall_v think_v as_o they_o do_v and_o consequent_o to_o lay_v a_o necessity_n upon_o the_o receive_n that_o opinion_n if_o they_o conceive_v that_o a_o way_n to_o have_v it_o receive_v and_o then_o if_o it_o be_v believe_v general_o profitable_a as_o confession_n who_o will_v be_v apt_a to_o oppose_v their_o call_n it_o neccessary_a for_o the_o same_o cause_n for_o which_o they_o call_v it_o so_o beside_o if_o this_o error_n be_v deliver_v by_o some_o father_n in_o the_o hot_a opposition_n of_o some_o heretic_n it_o may_v be_v none_o will_v oppose_v it_o lest_o the_o adversary_n may_v take_v advantage_n by_o their_o dissension_n and_o he_o that_o dispute_v for_o the_o orthodox_n side_n may_v lose_v by_o it_o much_o of_o his_o authority_n the_o word_n necessary_a itself_o be_v also_o often_o use_v for_o very_o convenient_a and_o then_o from_o necessary_a in_o that_o sense_n to_o absolute_o necessary_a be_v no_o difficult_a change_n though_o it_o be_v a_o great_a one_o then_o the_o father_n use_v the_o word_n heretic_n sometime_o in_o a_o large_a sense_n and_o sometime_o in_o a_o strict_a and_o so_o differ_v in_o the_o reckon_n they_o up_o some_o leave_v out_o those_o that_o other_o put_v in_o though_o they_o have_v see_v the_o precedent_a catalogue_n and_o so_o the_o doubtfulness_n of_o the_o sense_n of_o these_o word_n may_v bring_v in_o error_n name_n also_o as_o altar_n sacrifice_n mass_n may_v have_v be_v use_v first_o in_o one_o sense_n and_o the_o name_n retain_v though_o the_o thing_n signify_v receive_v change_n as_o it_o be_v once_o of_o a_o emperor_n of_o rome_n tacitus_n tacitus_n cvi_fw-la proprium_fw-la fuit_fw-la nuper_fw-la reperta_fw-la i_o leave_v out_o scelera_fw-la priscis_fw-la verbis_fw-la obtegere_fw-la who_o property_n it_o be_v to_o cover_v thing_n new_o find_v with_o ancient_a term_n and_o the_o same_o author_n tell_v we_o that_o the_o same_o state_n be_v as_o it_o be_v cheat_v out_o of_o her_o liberty_n because_o there_o do_v remain_v eadem_fw-la magistratuum_fw-la vocabula_fw-la the_o same_o title_n of_o magistrate_n and_o i_o believe_v that_o if_o the_o protestant_n beyond_o the_o sea_n will_v have_v think_v bishop_n as_o good_a a_o word_n as_o superintendents_a and_o so_o in_o other_o such_o thing_n many_o who_o understand_v nothing_o but_o name_n will_v have_v miss_v the_o scandal_n they_o have_v now_o take_v these_o way_n i_o think_v these_o thing_n may_v have_v come_v without_o much_o opposition_n from_o be_v think_v profitable_a to_o be_v do_v and_o probable_a to_o be_v believe_v to_o be_v think_v necessary_a to_o be_v both_o and_o how_o thing_n may_v have_v be_v by_o little_a and_o little_o receive_v under_o old_a name_n which_o will_v not_o have_v be_v so_o at_o once_o under_o new_a one_o it_o be_v not_o hard_a to_o conceive_v the_o first_o of_o these_o be_v no_o such_o small_a fault_n but_o that_o part_n of_o the_o montanist_n heresy_n be_v think_v uncommand_v fast_v day_n necessary_a to_o be_v observe_v which_o without_o doubt_n may_v lawful_o have_v be_v keep_v so_o that_o no_o necessity_n have_v be_v impose_v but_o my_o main_a answer_n be_v that_o if_o to_o be_v in_o the_o church_n without_o know_a precedent_n opposition_n be_v a_o certain_a note_n of_o be_v derive_v from_o the_o begin_n let_v they_o answer_v how_o come_v in_o the_o opinion_n of_o the_o chiliast_n not_o contradict_v till_o two_o hundred_o year_n after_o it_o come_v in_o to_o condude_v if_o they_o can_v prove_v that_o the_o scripture_n may_v be_v a_o certain_a teacher_n of_o truth_n to_o they_o then_o to_o we_o so_o that_o they_o may_v conclude_v the_o infallibility_n of_o the_o church_n out_o of_o it_o and_o we_o nothing_o if_o they_o can_v prove_v the_o church_n infallibility_n to_o be_v a_o suffcient_a guide_n for_o he_o that_o doubt_n which_o be_v the_o church_n and_o can_v examine_v that_o for_o want_n of_o learning_n by_o her_o chief_a mark_n which_o be_v conformity_n with_o the_o ancient_n if_o they_o can_v prove_v that_o the_o consent_n of_o father_n long_a together_o be_v a_o strong_a argument_n against_o we_o then_o against_o the_o dominican_n if_o they_o can_v prove_v though_o it_o be_v affirm_v by_o the_o first_o of_o they_o that_o such_o a_o thing_n be_v tradition_n and_o believe_v by_o all_o christian_n and_o this_o assertion_n till_o a_o great_a while_n after_o uncontradict_v yet_o they_o be_v not_o bind_v to_o receive_v it_o and_o upon_o less_o ground_n we_o be_v if_o indeed_o any_o can_v prove_v by_o any_o infallible_a way_n the_o infallibility_n of_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n and_o the_o necessity_n under_o pain_n of_o damnation_n for_o all_o man_n to_o believe_v it_o which_o be_v the_o more_o strange_a because_o justin_n martyr_n and_o clements_n alexandrinus_n among_o the_o ancient_n and_o erasmùs_fw-la and_o ludovicus_n vives_z among_o the_o modern_n believe_v some_o pagan_n to_o be_v save_v i_o will_v subscribe_v to_o it_o and_o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d if_o any_o man_n vouchsafe_v to_o think_v either_o this_o or_o the_o author_n of_o it_o of_o value_n enough_o to_o confute_v the_o one_o and_o inform_v the_o other_o i_o shall_v desire_v he_o to_o do_v it_o with_o proceed_v to_o the_o business_n and_o not_o stand_v upon_o any_o small_a slip_n of_o i_o of_o which_o this_o may_v be_v full_a and_o with_o that_o temper_n which_o be_v fit_a to_o be_v use_v by_o man_n that_o be_v not_o so_o passionate_a as_o to_o have_v the_o definition_n of_o reasonable_a creature_n in_o vain_a remember_v that_o truth_n in_o likelihood_n be_v where_o her_o author_n god_n be_v in_o the_o still_a voice_n and_o not_o the_o loud_a wind_n and_o that_o epiphanius_n excuse_v himself_o if_o he_o have_v call_v any_o heretic_n in_o his_o anger_n deceiver_n or_o wretch_n 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d and_o i_o request_v he_o also_o to_o help_v to_o bring_v i_o to_o the_o truth_n if_o i_o be_v out_o of_o it_o not_o only_o by_o his_o argument_n but_o also_o by_o his_o prayer_n which_o way_n if_o he_o use_v and_o i_o still_o continue_v on_o the_o part_n i_o be_o of_o and_o yet_o do_v neither_o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d nor_o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d neither_o be_o wilful_o blind_a nor_o deny_v impudent_o what_o i_o see_v than_o i_o be_o confident_a that_o he_o will_v neither_o have_v reason_n to_o be_v offend_v with_o i_o in_o this_o world_n nor_o god_n for_o that_o to_o punish_v i_o in_o the_o next_o a_o answer_n to_o the_o lord_n faulklands_n discourse_n of_o infallibility_n chap._n i._n nature_n be_v not_o able_a to_o perfect_v the_o work_n of_o humane_a kind_n which_o she_o have_v begin_v and_o burst_v at_o those_o throw_n and_o springing_n which_o her_o timely_a child_n give_v to_o see_v the_o light_n of_o eternal_a life_n whereof_o the_o distaste_n of_o all_o thing_n experience_v in_o this_o world_n and_o certain_a sparkling_n sow_v in_o our_o soul_n have_v give_v it_o a_o dim_a notice_n expect_v from_o her_o merciful_a creator_n the_o aid_n whereof_o how_o much_o great_a the_o wonder_n be_v to_o be_v and_o the_o necessity_n now_o divers_a thousand_o year_n by_o lamentable_a experience_n be_v more_o deer_n so_o much_o the_o ready_a be_v he_o and_o it_o be_v to_o send_v from_o his_o eternal_a breast_n his_o only_a wisdom_n to_o recount_v we_o wonder_n and_o aver_v they_o under_o the_o seal_n of_o his_o immutable_a truth_n he_o know_v all_o secret_n and_o can_v not_o be_v touch_v with_o suspicion_n of_o ignorance_n he_o be_v all_o goodness_n and_o free_a from_o all_o calumny_n of_o jealousy_n or_o envy_n who_o know_v he_o can_v not_o mistrust_v he_o for_o beside_o those_o great_a verdict_n already_o express_v in_o his_o favour_n his_o work_n give_v assurance_n of_o his_o word_n he_o fulfil_v in_o deed_n whatsoever_o he_o persuade_v in_o word_n and_o work_v to_o himself_o what_o he_o wish_v unto_o other_o lo_o here_o the_o high_a and_o sage_a master_n of_o our_o faith_n who_o oracle_n we_o can_v misdoubt_v so_o we_o be_v
and_o better_a wit_n saint_n augustine_n justifi_v such_o proceed_n against_o here_o tiques_n saint_n gregory_n advise_v the_o like_a against_o pagan_n if_o i_o remember_v and_o the_o church_n later_o have_v rather_o increase_v then_o decrease_v in_o the_o practice_n of_o it_o mores_n speech_n i_o believe_v be_v mistake_v the_o force_n of_o it_o be_v that_o the_o banishment_n of_o bishop_n show_v his_o faith_n because_o the_o banish_a be_v catholic_n which_o show_v lucius_n to_o be_v none_o but_o what_o can_v be_v say_v if_o the_o church_n use_v that_o for_o the_o prevention_n of_o a_o great_a and_o more_o dangerous_a evil_n which_o all_o politic_a estate_n use_v for_o the_o remedy_n of_o less_o and_o less_o dangerous_a evil_n and_o be_v commend_v for_o it_o for_o if_o faith_n be_v the_o way_n of_o salvation_n and_o hereby_o the_o bane_n of_o faith_n if_o salvation_n be_v the_o great_a good_a than_o the_o danger_n of_o a_o country_n be_v over_o run_v with_o heresy_n be_v the_o great_a 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