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A26776 An answer to (vindicate the cause of the nick-named Quakers of such scandalls and untruths as is falsly cast upon them in a lying pamphlet, otherwise called) A discourse concerning the Quakers set out by T.L., or, as I understand the signification of the letters, Tho.? Ledger / by Geo. Baiteman. Baiteman, George. 1653 (1653) Wing B1094; ESTC R4254 26,089 36

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all things But I would have the Author and all others to understand themselves better and then they shall understand Scripture better I would know of the Author what Scripture it was that the Apostle meaneth of when the Scripture which we have at this day was not written many a yeare after the time of Abraham but if the Author cannot tell I will declare to him what Scripture that was The Word Scripture is two-fold and to be understood in a two-fold sence the one Essencyall the other Declarative Now the Scripture Declarative is written in Paper by men and had a time for its beginning and so there is a time for it to end but the Scripture Essenciall hath its being in it selfe and is Eternall and shall have no end and this Scriture is the true Essenciall Word of God or his Sonne Christ by whom all things were Created and this Word was in the beginning and this Word was God and nothing was made or brought to passe but by this Word John 1. 1. 2. and this Word was the Wisedome of God by which he spoke and acted and fore-seeth things to come and it was this Word or Scripture that fore-saw by which God fore-told Abraham things to come and this Word or Scripture and God is all one And the Apostle who knew the truth hereof divers times useth the Word Scripture for the Word God when he is speaking of Gods fore-seeing speaking or acting as may plainely appeare where he saith The Scripture hath concluded all under unbeleife Gal. 3. 22. the which act the Scripture Declarative never could doe but the Scripture or Word Essenciall which is God the truth of which is cleared by the same Apostle speaking of the same subject where he saith That God had concluded all under unbeleife c. Rom. 11. 32. And further in speaking of what the Scripture said to Pharaoh Even for this purpose have I raysed thee up c Rom. 9. 17. which saying was not spoken to Pharaoh nor which worke was wrought upon him by the Scripture Declarative but by the Scripture or Word Essentiall which was God himselfe as may be seen in Exodus 9. 16. where it was plainly held out that it was God that spake these words and wrought that worke upon Pharaoh Now I would have that Author and all other to understand the true distinction between the Scripture or Word Essentiall and the Scripture or word Declarative for if they doe not it is possible they will adde to the one and diminish the other and then let them take heed of the curse that John speaketh of at the end of the Revelation But the Author goeth on in his Discourse in his blindnesse and all along attributeth that to the word Declarative which is the proper worke of the word Essenciall and so brings to prove what he ●aies the saying of the Apostle in Heb. 4. 12. where it is said The Word of God is quicke and powerfull and sharper then any two edged Sword c. the which he falsly applyeth to the Scripture Declarative which in it selfe is as dead as a stone except the Essenciall word first move in the heart of man otherwise how is it that all mens thoughts and intents is not discovered by Hearing or Reading it but what the Apostle speaketh there is the very worke of the Essenciall word or God himselfe as the following verse of the same Chapter will truely witnesse where the Apostle doth more illustrate and lay open the property of the Essenciall word and saith Neither is there any creature that is not manifested in his sight but all things are naked and layd open before the eyes of him with whom we have to doe And doth not God plainely declare by the Prophet That it is he himselfe that searcheth the heart and tryeth the reines Jer. 17. 9. 10. O what blindnesse is amongst men yea amongst Professors also that they cannot see nor be made beleeve what is the word of God but in their blindnesse taketh the Scripture Declarative for the word of God for which they have neither example nor command in that Scripture they doe so much Idolize but onely as they have received that word by Tradition from their fore-Fathers who was blinded in their understanding and could not know any other word of God and so gave that name to the Scriptures because they were not acquainted with the Essenciall word within them therefore their wit carryed them to Scripture without them and finding some saying in it which suited with their reason as such sayings as these They spake the Word of God with boldnesse Acts 4 31. But the Word of God grew and multiplyed Acts 12. 24. Not handling the Word of God deceitfully Rom. 4. 2. Take the Word of God which is the Sword of the Spirit Ephes. 6. 17. It is sanctified by the Word of God and Prayer 1 Tim. 4. 5. and divers other speaking in Scripture to that purpose which all of them is the proper effects of the Eternall Word the Sonne of God the which but few of our wise learned Rabbies have knowne and therefore have they understood that these sayings which held out the property of the Eternall with its effects to be the property of the Scripture and its effects But when our Saviour who was the Word it selfe had occasion to use Scripture he gave no such title to Scripture but said It is Written in such a Booke or Is it not Written in your Law John 10. 34. And when the Apostles had occasion to speake out of the Scripture did they not follow the same rules And when the Apostle Peter would pronounce the Scripture by another name he calleth it A sure Word of Prophesie But this epithite the Word of God was not at all given to it untill the Eternall Word was hid and man wanted the life and power thereof within him and then his wit found the Word of God without him and to these dayes our wise Rabbies understand it so and makes Fooles beleeve that what they say is true and under this pretence they take to themselves the name of the Ministers of God and that which they Preach is the Word of God when as they know not what the word of God is but what they gather out of the Scriptures which is nothing else but a Declaration of the word of God without a man but as for that which is the Word it selfe the which should live in them and they in it and what that word spake in them to declare to others alas they know not what it meaneth but busyeth themselves to persecute and scandalize these in whom the Essenciall word liveth and they in it And that Author being of the Disciples of thefe Rabbies doth play his part on their side and in his Discourse runns himselfe stone blinde about advancing Ordinances and Scripture to that end for which they were never intended but if the blind leade the blind they had best take heed of
Author if he finde any command in Scripture for such Names or to give such epithites to men Nay is not the command of Scripture quite contrary For when our Saviour said Call no man Father upon Earth how can a man justly call another Master or Sir What man but Heathen or Fooles dare take that name to him seeing Christ gave in charge to his Disciples that they should not take the name Master upon them Mat. 23. 8. And what grounds or reasons can that Author shew that men should be called Yee and You seing all examples in Scripture New and Old calleth men by the name Thou and Thee yea if he were never so great a one and if the word You or Yee be any honour or respect why will not that Author and others let God have that honour and respect also Nay are not all these traditionall complements crept in amongst men in the time of darkenesse and how is the hearts of Fooles glewed to these Traditions yea the very examples and commands in Scripture is made voyde by vaine Traditions and yet these men who leave Traditions and follow the example and command in Scripture how are they mocked and scandalized for it and as this Author doth falsly accuse them that they walke not according to Scripture but may not even a very Ideot be judge whether they or the Author and his Fellowes be the greater denyers of Scriptures Nay it is too plainely apparant that the Author and his Fellowes are the denyers of Scripture though they pretend or cry Scripture Scripture Scripture but they will owne no more in Scripture then will sute and serve to please their good-thinking to patch up a Forme of Worship to their God under which they may hide all their pride and hypocrisie and coveteous practises but where the example and command in Scripture is against these things how little doe they heed it O how well is Scripture liked and how swiftly is the worship carried on when it sutes with sence and reason but O how harsh is Scripture and the worship of spirit in the way of bearing the Crosse of selfe-deniall nay away with that Scripture and Worship that will part a man and his selfe for that for sure shall have the name of madnesse and delusion The Author is judging these people That they thinke the observing of these things is a great Badge of their Profession but let 〈◊〉 thoughts be what they will of these things yet I will plainely tell that Author or any other of his Fellowes that to be brought to the profession of such things will be found an hundred times more harder worke then to be brought into Brother hood or Kirke-fellowship or to performe all holy duties so called in the same Fellowship for in Brother hood and Kirke-fellowship and in the performing of all holy duties so called included therein a man may keep his honour prayse pride and reputation amongst men but the profession of the other will kill these and therefore no marvaile if Formes have so many favorites and the other so few friends Another thing I observe in the Authors Discourse is where he is saying That some of these people through Gods mercy have bin reduced and turned again into Church-Communion who have confessed while they were in that way they had no sence of God c. I would have the Author and others to know the truth of that viz That those that joyneth with these people with an hypocrites heart cannot long continue in their way for there they finde but little to please their pride or sensuality or their wit and reason and God doth justly answer those in not shewing his countenance to an hypocriticall heart and when such hypocrites can finde nothing amongst them that will please pride and sensuality then doe they start backe from them for they know well enough where to be entertained and get liberty for their sences and keepe up their pride c. And where they may warme themselves at the fire of their owne kindling and walke in the light of these sparkes and have these to be called in comes of Christ into the soule and where they may be Canonized with the name Saint c. may not the Author hereby see the great blindenesse of himselfe and the rest of his formall Fellowes that an hypocrite falling from these people should amongst them be accounted a Saint for the truth is Formes and Church-fellowship is the very refuge of hypocrites but amongst the other an hypocrite cannot long continue It cannot be denyed but at this day there is hypocrites amongst them but time will discover them and they will fall off from amongst them but it maketh no matter for those that fall off will help to make Church-fellowship up well enough That Author proceedeth on in his Discourse with an Advertisement to his Fellowes to blesse God for their faire Form and holy performances I make no doubt but it would have pleased him well if his Fellowes had met together upon his Advertisement for two houres and praysed God for the goodnesse of their faire Forme much like the people who cryed for two houres together Great art thou O Diana of the Ephesians The Author containing still his spirit of scandall and rayling calleth these people Owles and sayes they dare not appeare where Church-fellowship is the which the very Priests and people in their naturalls will confute for they have appeared in open Congregations and have confuted and confounded the Priests in Preaching untruths to the people for which doing it is not unknowne that they have undergone long and tedious Imprisonments Yea these people dare appeare and hath appeared in Publique Market Places to declare against the sinnes of the people in these times for which doing some of them have put their life in danger And for other Church-fellowship viz. the Congregaeed way I I know not how one should devise to come to have the opportunity to appeare amongst them they keep so secret except a man have got on the hypocrites habit and make a friend of some of their Order to be admitted to appeare amongst them He likewise sayes they are bred in darke places what these darke places is he meaneth of I cannot tell except he meaneth in some place of the Land which is Hills or Dales remote from the body of the Land where oft times the worst of the Priests of Baall hath their habitations and where Church-fellowship is not in fashion If these be the darke places he meaneth of I would have him to know it is no hard thing for God to raise up light in darkenesse and to make more of his goodnesse and truth appeare to some in such places then to those who live in Cities great Townes and Corporations where oft-times the great or chiefe Priests of Baall have their Places because of fat Benefits and have the good-thinking policy of making Congregations But I would have the Author to remember that when Christ appeared in