Selected quad for the lemma: word_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
word_n	hymn_n	psalm_n	song_n	3,209	5	9.5347	5	false

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A90720	Sectaries vnmasked and confuted. By the treating upon divers points of doctrine in debate betwixt the Presbyterialists and sectarists, Anabaptists, Independents, and Papists. / By George Palmer wel-wisher to a warrantable uniformity in godly religious exercises.	Palmer, George, b. 1596 or 7.	1647 (1647)	Wing P229; Thomason E396_27; ESTC R201662	58,190	61

were to be sung afterwards to Gods glory this you cannot deny I am sure And if you say men do now but speak the words of it and therefore if they were debarred of them then they would pray in the Spirit if they have any saving grace in them To this I answer in the first place with the words of St. Paul To the pure all things are pure but to the contrary party nothing is pure for their mindes and consciences are defiled the meaning is this That those that have honest hearts will honestly make use of honest things Again if you would utterly deprive all sorts of a Form of prayer how then shall ignorant youths and little young maids pray nay many times old men are but new converts and what will you have them do If they use many words in a prayer they will too soon ask they know not what like the mother of Zebedees children yea they being ignorant will presently in their pride of Spirit think themselves fit to fit at the elbows of Christ in heaven for they will think they are fitter for the place then Moses or Aaron surely it were safer for such to use that Form which God taught the people in the time of Moses Deut. 28. it was to them a Form viz. Amen But if you can pray knowingly then poure out your hearts to God according to true knowledge But I have heard some pray or say many words and but little matter but chiefly it was tautologie and often repeating the same words and could not proceed farther and thought themselves highly gifted too therefore take heed of spirituall pride judge of your abilities with a single eye I know some that have applauded a Minister for making such an admirable prayer as none near him was to be compared unto him but it was the sillyest tautologie that I was ashamed to heare it Doe you think in your conscience that if you were taught in a Form to ask for a hundred pounds of some that are both able and willing to give it and also you wanted bread to put in your belly being hungry and empty that then you could not ask in that Forme yes I warrant you therefore beware of spirituall pride But now having thus a little prepared you as I hope for some sure instruction I now come more home to you Luke 11. 1. you may see that our Saviour taught his Disciples a Form of prayer they not knowing how to pray as it seems unlesse some short prayer as at some other times they did as in these words Lord increase our Faith c. in these words When ye pray say Our Father which art in heaven c. here you may see that they were to use the words that he taught them And although Luke hath it in this manner Pray you that 's nothing to overthrow this Evangelist for both wayes are lawfull nay God sometime did bid the Jews that they should take unto them words and come to him in prayer and taught them a Form of words too by the Prophet H●sea 14. 2 3. these are the words Take unto you words and turn to the Lord say unto him Take away all iniquitie and receive us graciously so will wee render the calves of our lips Ashur shall not save us we will not rid upon horses neither will we say any more to the work of our hands Ye are our Gods for in thee the fatherlesse findeth mercy All this Form of Prayer the Lord taught the people by the Prophet Hosea And Col. 3. 16. Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdome teaching and admonishing one another in Psalms hymnes and spirituall songs singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord c. He did not here mean in this place any new Psalmes or hymnes for he bad them admonish each other in those Psalmes and hymnes therefore those Psalmes and hymnes were then Canonicall although I could wish that upon some occasion were it not for startling the weak in knowledge that some Preacher that were a solid man would frame a Psalm for that speciall occasion for he that can make a prayer according to the Word is able also to make a Psalm but this I think would be inconvenient but this is fit to bee done viz. the Preacher himself should fit a Psalme out of the Book of Psalmes for the severall occasions and suitable to his Sermon And thus much for this point also with this conclusion Now since we had no Prayer-booke The Sabbath afternoons The sleep so much some heads have tooke That dead they are in swoons Some Scriptures we in stead thereof Might safely entertaine Lest wee so much from it be off That there wee sit in vaine And now me thinketh I see another stand by with a question in his mouth for these times are fraught with them now And this is it viz. How if Pipes and Organs should chance to be put upon us againe as they were before the Parliament begun will not that bee Idolatry thinke you and if so then I hope you will graunt us a warrant to run out of the Church To this I answer First what is lawfull in it selfe is one thing and what is an inconvenience is another thing therefore ye ought to be informed well in your judgement before you bee too forward to make a conclusion First if in it selfe it be Idolatry now what was it all that time when God himself in Davids time allowed it in the praises of his people If you say that the Pope useth it to his Idols and therefore it is Idolatry I answer so did the heathen very likely And besides if that be it by the which you would gather a conclusion viz. that because the Papists use it therefore we may not use it then may not we sing unto the true God because the Papists sing unto their Idols for singing is melody therefore this your argument is of no validity But here is another question put to mee and this is the maine one viz. In the time of the old Law it was lawfull but is not now it being not now commanded therefore it is unlawfull To this I answer briefly if you consider the end wherefore it was at the first allowed you may easily make conclusion The end why it was first allowed was this to occasion joyfulnesse or chearfulnesse in the users and hearers of it that so they might praise God with the more lively affections for all know it is an outward occasion of naturall joy and the Word of God being then used with it viz. in Psalmes or hymnes doe turn the use of it by the operation of Gods Spirit to the more hearty praising of God Secondly to your question more fully that is because it is not commanded by the Apostles therefore it is not now lawfull for us to use it in the praises of God Why the Apostles would have us to use all meanes possible to inable us to praise God

the more chearfully But saith some some doe regard the melody more then the matter they sing or God to whom they sing To this I answer so without all question doe some that sing without Musicke and have no devotion to God Therefore the Apostles conclusion must bee ours viz. to the pure all good things are pure but to them that are otherwise is no good thing pure Thirdly But the Parliament hath forbid it now and therefore it is unlawfull I doe answer that many things at this time are forborn for divers reasons First it is and especially hath lately been a time of mourning yea to mourne with sorrowfull hearts rather then joyous hearts although wee bee godly disposed at that time for you know in the time of David musick was not used when they fasted to God and were humbled for some punishment that then was upon them Secondly it might be forbid by the Parliament to satisfie the People who are weake in their judgement and thought every thing was Popery or Idolatry because some did begin to leave that way and then it ought to be taken away for the present Thirdly because the People were addicted to Idolatry many of them therefore it ought to bee taken away For the Brasen Serpent that was set up at first for good use was taken downe yea and broken in pieces in way of detestation and called a piece of Brasse when the people had idolatrized to it But this shall be my conclusion it is no great matter whether it be or bee not and so I end this Point with a generall reason why I have treated thus much in it which is this I would gladly learn the Reader hereof to make some distinctions for for want of this many mischiefs are amongst us and the Leaders of the Sectaries either cannot or will not doe it what the Reasons are I leave to you to be guided by some of those I mentioned in my former points viz. policy But now I will set to your view some Scriptures to you to pitch your judgement on more clearely both out of the Old and New Testament first in Exod. 15. 20. Miriam the Prophetesse did praise the Lord with instruments of musick Judg. 11. 34 35. There you may see Jephthah's daughter did it too Chap. 21. 19 20 21. There was a feast at Shiloh yearly a feast of the Lord saith the Text and the daughters of Shiloh did use to dance there at that feast Psal. 149. 3. L●t them praise the Lord in the dance let them sing praises to him with the tymbrell and harpe and Psal. 150. Psal. 33. 2 3 4. Psal. 108. 1 2. And I will end with that in the Revelation of John chap. 14. v. 2 3. and I pray consider of it these are the words I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps and they sung as it were a new song before the Throne c. And Chap. 15. 2. 3. These are the words of those that had gotten the victory over the Beast They had harps of God saith the Text and they sang the song of Moses the servant of God and the song of the Lamb saying Great and marvailous are thy workes Lord God Almighty just and true are thy wayes thou King of Saints And thus much for this point Some have such tender sculls they 'l dye with little haile As goslings tender be alas what doe they aile And now I desire to know wherein the difference lyeth betwixt those that stand for the Presbyteriall government and those that separate from them by reason of those things contained in those Points thus lately treated of and consequently why we may not joyn together in the Presbyteriall government And now I come to the first of the last three things I promised to touch and that is to answer some of the Sectaries to some things which they affirm of themselves concerning their conversation that they are the most godly people in their lives and conversations and therefore they have the better judgements To this I answer wee may not take your bare word for it neither for if men plead for a confusion it is rather a sign of the contrary Secondly it is is an ill signe in you to be so uncharitable in your censures of us the Presbyterials you account most of us to be uncapable of the Sacraments although you cannot prove us to live in such sins and especially in that degree in those sins which the Word of God doth exclude a man for and is this a good sign think you Thirdly if you say that you are more zealous in your following the Preachers and the exercises of Religion therefore you are better and more godly then the Presbyterials I answer so might the Pharisees have said for which cause they had their name zelotes many of them yea this was the cause that they did separate from the residue of the people and would be called Pharisees the which word commeth of the Hebrew word Phares which signifieth to make a breach by separating from others and is this a commendation alwayes think you you know the Pharisees were worse then the common people were from whom they separated for inwardly they were full of rottennesse yea our Saviour said of them that they were ravening wolves although they were so zealous to pay tithe of mint anise and cummin By all this you see now that your argument therein is stark naught besides I have found that the Presbyterialls are more forward to neighbourly goodwill and to accommodate a man with what they can then you are this I have proved to be true although I have not any thing of any man but what I pay for But the Independents are full of shifts and excuses so many as I have been acquainted with I wish they would not equivocate so much as they doe I hope they will ●eale truly in their shops Fourthly they say they have more knowledge in the Word and will of God then the Presbyterialls have I answer if this were true you are so much the worse if your hearts are not thereby made better for you come much short of the Pharisees in our Saviours time in the literall knowledge of Divine things yet they were the worst of people Besides it is not true neither which you affirm of your selves viz. that you are the most knowing for you are exceeding weak in your judgements for the more part And many of the Presbyterialls which have not the tenth part of literall knowledge have notwithstanding a better understanding in many things in the Word of God and sincere hearted too Fifthly I wish I might not say that there is with you too many mountaines of spirituall pride for there was another sect among the Jews that called themselves Sadduces and would be thought to be more just in their dealings then other men and yet were not such as had saving grace in their hearts they called themselves Sadduces from the hebrew word tsedek