Selected quad for the lemma: word_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
word_n	holy_a	spirit_n	trinity_n	2,812	5	9.9722	5	false

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A44794	The heart of New-England hardned through wickednes in answer to a book, entituled the Heart of New-England rent, published by John Norton appointed thereunto by the General Court. The doctrine of the Quakers uindicated [sic], his ignorance manifested, and his lying doctrines brought to light and judged with the word of truth, and truth cleared from his aspersions and slanders. By him that waits to see the throne of righteousness exalted above all deceit. Francis Howgill.	Howgill, Francis, 1618-1669.	1659 (1659)	Wing H3166; ESTC R223647	32,471	42

Spirit which also may be confirmed by the Testimony of the Scriture of Truth As to those which thou sets down as our Tenents I shall answer on the Lords behalf for Truthes sake and for the rest thou may take them home to thy self First concerning the Trinity thou saith they confesse the Father Son and Holy Ghost and yet they deny the Trinity and those to bet hree distinct Persons for confutation of this thou brings Heb. First and third He is the expresse Image of his Fathers Person Thy Trinity is an old Popish term and we love to keep to sound words but by Trinity I suppose thou means three and thy own words shall confute thee thou confesseth we say there is Father Son and Holy Ghost and yet but one God or one Eternal being or substance in which they all subsist but thy word distinct is thy own and not the Spirits yet to distinguish betwixt Father Son and Spirit we deny not and as for the first of Heb it is in another Translation rendred the expresse Image of his substance for Person is too grosse a word as to expresse an Eternal and Divine being in and if thou do hold three distinct substances thou errs in thy Judgement for that were to make three Gods Secondly They deny Christ to be God and man in one Person and Christ to be a distinct Person from the Father and they acknowledge such a Christ as unchrists Christ and when they say Christ manifest in the flesh they mean not as the Scripture but falaciously Answ. We say according to the Scripture of Truth and not according to thy falacy that in the man Christ did the fulness of the Godhead dwell and God was in Christ reconciling the world unto himself and he saith I and my Father are one and the Father the Son and the Spirit subsist in one Eternal Power Life and Glory which thou with all thy stupid generation are Ignorant of and Christ that we acknowledge is such a Christ as is able to save to the utmost them that come unto him and receive him and believe in him and is such a Christ is as able to raise them that have been dead and such a Christ giveth Eternal life to them that believe And so that Christ that we own doth not un-christ Christ but by your Doctrine who pleads imperfection and the continuation thereof and a continuation in sin for term of life as one of thy own said sin will dwell in the house till the house be pulled down speaking of the natural body which some other of thy own Generation have called the body of sin and so it is you that hold such a Christ as unchrists the true Christ in thy own words and when didst thou enter into our thoughts and into our heart or with what dost thou search that thou sits as Judge over the heart who knowes not judgement in thy self nor of what spirit thou art of and so thy lies and deceit is turned upon thee when we say Christ manifest in the flesh we say that holy thing which was brought forth and born of a Virgin and conceived of the Holy Ghost in whom the fulness of the God-head dwells in whom the Eternal Power of the Father was manifested that he was the Christ which was manifested in the flesh and Justified in the Spirit Preached among the Gentiles seen of Angels and received up into Glory and this is according to Scripture of Truth and thy judgement must be judged Thirdly Concerning the Scripture considered as the rule of Life They deny the Scripture or written word to be the rule of life and they make the Spirit without the Scripture to be their guide they account Chyrch instituted worship and waiting upon God for the Efficacious pres●nce and operation of the Spirit of Grace in the Ministry of the Word and Sacrament for conversion and edification to be I●●latry and the Political order of Church Officers and members they affirm to be an Image Answ. Concerning the Scripture we say they are Scriptures of Truth and words of Truth spoken from the Spirit or Truth that which gave them a being is greater then they as he that Creates is greater then they that ar● Created which is preferred above and before and yet no Deminishing or Detracting from the Creature so the Spirit is greater above and before the words and yet this doth not Deminish neither Derogate from the Scripture these and the like sound words we have spoken to thy deaf Generation yet a spirit of slumber being upon them all they could not hear that which giveth Life and bringeth to Life and preserves in the Life is a rule and a guide to them that are enlivened the Sons of God who were quickned by the Eternal Spirit of their Father of Christ and raised from death to Life this was their rule as it is written as many as are the Sons of God are led by the Spirit of God and we say it is a sufficient rule of it self and thou may as well count the rule of the Sons of God Hetrodox and Heretical and the Apostles position who said as many as are the Sons of God are led by it and Christ promised unto believers the Spirit of Truth to lead them into all Truth and to bring things to their remembrance and to guide them in the path of Righteousness what has Envy and madness eaten all the good out of your hearts Yet the Scripture is not so excluded by us as thou Judgest though we say the Spirit may lead and direct with it or without it yet not contrary to it for the Spirit doth will and may take up what thing it pleaseth to manifest it self and its mind unto the Creature and who art thou and what art thou any thing but an Egyptian who would limit it and tie it to Paper and Ink to words and Syllables sounded and written in diverse Tongues Languages and Caracters they that appointed thee for a Minister never knew Gods Work and we know that there are several Ministrations and several operations yet the same God and the same Spirit who manifested it self and formeth and Ordaineth things according to its Heavenly will to represent its Heavenly mind to the Creature and that which Christ hath Ordained and Instituted to be worshipped in waited in and his presence seen in and the operation of the Spirit of Grace in the work of the Ministry which is for Conversion and Edification is dearly owned by us as that whereby we have found the Lord and his pure presence through this or that thing and without and beyond all Creatures or visible appearances and this is not accounted Idolatry by us as thou falsly saith which God will Judge thee for in the day when he appears to take vengeance upon his Enemies in flames of fire and thou that talkes of trying the Spirit by the Letter knowes no more of God then a Horse but what thou knowes naturally the

Wisdom stands and life Eternal And what is this Hetrodox to profess perfection of degrees in this life is not this Orthodox used not you and do not you generally hold perfection in part or parts and is not that which is perfect in parts perfect in degrees He that feels victory over one sin by Christ the Power of God hath not he some part in that which is perfect and of that which is perfect And if he witness victory over more is he not come to a greater degree or degrees of the life which is perfect And he that knows the blood that cleanseth from all sin is not he perfect and compleat in him who hath made him so But art thou so offended at perfection that thou dost not admit of any part or parts degree or degrees thereof that thou sets this down as a Blasphemy And its time indeed to reprove you sharply who are puffed up in pride and knows nothing who teaches contrary to the perfect life of Christ or any degree or degrees thereof to be attained unto thou art perfect in wickednesse and a perfect Minister of Antichrist and a perfect Heathen and its time to bear Testimony against you and lay you open and your deceit in the sight of the Sun that them that have but the least glimring of the Light may behold you a pitiful Church is that like to be which thou art Pastor of by appointment of the General Court who cryes out against any degree of the perfect life of Christ in this life to be obtained or enjoyed a Minister of sin a Minister of Sathan and unrighteousness that is thy name own it In the ninth page thou art going about to prove thy Trinity as thou calls it and thou saist The Father is a distinct subsistance and the Son a distinct subsistance and the Holy Ghost is a distinct subsistance and thou brings John 5. there is another bears witness likewise speaking of the Holy Ghost he calls him another and this another thou sayes Is Intel 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 of the Essence and then saith What is more manifest then another subsistance and another subsistance speaks distinct subsistances and thou saith The Spirit is called the hand of Trinity Answ. Another is not understood of another being of another life or another substance but is understood of another Manifestation or Operation of the same God who subsists in the same Power in which the Father the Son and the Spirit subsisteth as I said unto thee before another as to distinguish of the Operation and Work of the Spirit and of the Son we do not refuse but to make three distinct essences and beings is ignorance and errour as thou saith Another is intel●gible of the Essence and so thou hast made three Essences three Subsistances three Persons and three Gods but we say there is but one God and there is three that bears record in Heaven the Father the Word and the Spirit and these three are one Now as for Subsistance and Essence they are unsound words coyned of your selves from your dark imaginations in which there is no truth at all but to cast a mist Now where the Holy Ghost is called a Person in the Scripture I have never read and where it is called the hand of Trinity I have never heard of before thee and so thy blind ignorant conclusions and Sophistical arguing will have little place with them that are come to know the Teachings with the Spirit and also keep to a form of sound words which thou cannot And thou saith He that sendeth and he that is sent are distinct and so the Father sending the Son and the Son sent of the Father and the Father and the Son sending the Spirit and the Spirit sent by the Father and the Son are distinct subsistances and not the same He that sends and he that is sent may be distinguished but he that sendeth and him that is sent is not so distinct afar off one another but that him that sendeth is with him that is sent and so God was in Christ reconciling the world and then how were they distinct one from the other and by him was all things made and Christ was not so distinct or afar off at a distance when the Heavens and the Earth was made so that it is truly said without him nothing was made that was made and the Spirit of God which may be distinguished in regard of its Operation yet it was not absent or distinct from the Father and the Son in the Creation neither is absent from the Son in the Regeneration or work of Redemption And then in thy Answer to an Objection which thou makest thy self How the Doctrine of life was Communicated vocally by the Patriarchs but it is not so now and in thy Answer thou saith The Scripture is not necessary absolutely but it being Gods Will to Communicate life through the Scripture hence the Scripture is necessary and then thou sayes Not the letter without the mind of the Authour nor the Spirit without the Scripture and that the words in the 17th of John 22. That they may be one as we are one these words give an uncertain sound thou saist and further thou saist Surely they are under a Rule of live who hare not the Spirit since the Canon of the Scripture is closed so far is the Spirit from being a Rule of life that to us it is not the Spirit except it move in the written word Answ. Gross darkness is thy dwelling-place and out of thick darkness all this pitiful confusion cometh the Doctrine of life was Communicated according to the will and mind of God sometime by Dream sometime by Vision sometime by Revelation to the Patriarchs and Believers from Abel till Moses and by Faith they were followers of Christ and doubtless they did Communicate in their Generation those things that were manifest unto them by the Spirit which was the then Rule and Guide to the feet of the upright in the way of Peace before any Scripture was written and if the Scripture be not necessary absolutely thou hast said as much as we say therefore we ' speak of a Rule and a Way which is absolute necessary without which no man can know the Father or the Son nor the way of Peace but by the Spirit of truth which gave forth the Words of truth which may manifest and doth manifest it self as it will when it will where it will and how it will for it is unlimitted and it will not be limitted by its own words as to sound but may speak words which it never spoke before as for instance Paul by the Spirit said The second Adam the Lord from Heaven is a quickning Spirit which none of the Scriptures before written speaks in these very words and if the Spirit be not Spirit without the Letter then where the Letter is wanting the Spirit is wanting and consequently them that have the Scripture have the Spirit which were no less then

or against the light of the Spirit must needs be sinful and then if it be as thou hast said and if this must be the true sence of that Scripture that it must be understood of natural light and that natural light thou construes in opposition to spiritual and saith it is contradistinct to the light of the Spirit and in opposition unto it that which is against the Spirits light or the light of the Spirit must needs be darkness sinful and evil and yet thou hast confessed it will teach that none ought to lye or steal and to know one God and the Creator and Eternity and Omnipotency and yet it must be taken in opposition to the Spirit and contradistinct from the Spirit that which leads to know the Creator and Eternity and Omnipotency is that Spirit of God through which God and the things of God are revealed and that that teaches that a man should not lye that is truth and that that leads from sin and accuses for evil-doing and convicts that is the Spirits light as it is written he shall convince the world of sin and so thou like a man who hath lost all aim rambles up and down in every by-path and like a blind man gropes but cannot enter into the Treasure-house of Wisdom thou hast called the light that every one is lighted with the Righteousness of the Law and no Gospel light and in opposition to spiritual and contradistinct to the Spirit and in a word hath made at it at the best construction but bad and evil and then when thou hast done thou confesseth that it will put a difference between good evil and shew that God is to be worshipped and Eternity is known and Omnipotency And are not these the deep things of God And so B●bylon is the Land of thy nativity and thou reels and staggers up and down like a drunken man and would be a Teacher and knows not whereof thou affirms nor of what thou speaks Further thou saith That this little light there is is much miscarried and thy Reason is because it is managed by the reigning power of darkness and the judgement of man is corrupt and then thou goes on the light of nature since the fall is not to be compared saist thou with the light of the Image of God before the fall and it hath no proportion with Gospel light but is gross darkness nay is worse then gross darkness Answ. And how did the light miscarry thou blind-man and when did the Reigning power of darkness manage it seeing that there is no fellowship betwixt light and darkness and the light which every man is lighted with hath born witness against darkness and the Reigning power of it and though the judgment of man be corrupt his miscarriage is because he hath not minded the light and because he hath turned his back on it and then sin entred and then came to Reign in the power of darkness and corrupted the heart and this hath made man miscarry and though thou say that the light which lighteth every man is not compared with the light of the Image of God before the fall and hath no proportion I 'le tell thee a riddle go learn what it means the light of the Image of God before the fall is the same in it self after the fall and holds its proportion and is no whit lessned or deminished in its purity in its self although fallen man do not see it neither can behold it because sin hath entred and death by sin and that is it which obscureth the Image of God from man and its light yet the light shined in darkness but thou concludes it is darkness yea worse then grosse darkness and thou brings a proof to prove it ye were darkness the Apostle doth not say that the light which shined in darkness was darkness or worse then grosse darknesse as thou ignorantly saith but he said the Ephesians or the men of Ephesus were darkness and not the light in them which shined in darkness though the darkness comprehended it not but how now John Norton what will the General Court of Boston say when they see thy confusion laid open and the deceit made manifest to thine and their shame and ignorance thou confest in the 16. page that it would lead to know God and the worship of God and Teach not to lie and steal and so forth and to discover some of Gods Attributes as Eternity omnipotency and the like here was some good in it in thy own account but now it s become grosse darkness in the 18. page and worse then grosse darkness and so hath made as bad if not worse then any Principle that is in a Beast and it may truely be said of thee even in thy own phrase Quanta sub nocte Jacebat Nostra dies But now thou comes to a further interpretation of 1 Job 9. and thou saith the light which we are enlightned with it is either the light of nature the light of reason or the light of saving Grace and the light enlightning is either the Word considered as the second Person or Christ the Son considered as Incarnate Answ. It seems that thou knowes not which it is but gueses like a blind man and like a wild Archer shootes at random and why dost thou make such distinction betwixt the Word the Son of God and Christ the Son of God thou made but three Persons in the Trinity before but it seems by thy arguing thou would now make four And as for thy Collective and distributive light the distinctions is that which would cast a mist before People eyes and thou brings the Judgement of Calvin Besar and Piscator and others that as concerning man endued onely with the light remaining since the fall they conclude him to be darkness and unable to comprehend the light or to improve it to salvation their judgements is more sound then thine though thou would bring them to strengthen thee that the Son of God hath not enlightned every man they confesse the man in the fall is in darkness and darkness is over him and in that he is not able to comprehend the light which is in him and as to the improvement of it in the darkness man hath not power to improve it to salvation but what doth this invalidate the light which is in darkness the power of improving is in the light being turned to again and received and what if I say it is the light of Life in its self though thou deny it I know what I speak for in him was life and is life and that life is the light of men and the light of the world and so that light which every man is lighted with is of the life and from the life and so may truely be said to be the light of life in it self though man in the transgression doth not feel it so as to him but may truely say it is the light of condemnation because he feels it so