extraordinarie calling wee have to worke miracles Who of any sound mynd can not but extreamlie wonder how by so manifold and childishe a cavillation men affecting the opinion of learning and holynes should so evidentlie make themselves ridiculous and bewray openlie an evill conscience For first as I have already cleared for our Churches in common they are impudent to deny our ordinarie vocation But to let this passe with them if my doctrine proove it selfe to bee the truth what place have such men as it convinced to bee â—yers to except against my vocation which justifieth it selfe sufficientlie even by that fame Doe men gather grapes of thornes or fygges of thistles And if necessitie were of miracles what greater can bee then this that The stone even reiected of the builders is yet made the head of the corner Which by the Lord his owne Testimony is marveilous in our eies and yet it is the Lod his doing If our doctrine bee truth their mouthes are stopped who directlie impugne it and if it bee false what foolishnes is it to crave a warrant of our callings as if all the miracles which ever were wrought could warrant a man to teach lyes Besides all this that miracles are alwayes requisite for iustifying an extraordinarie callinge it is falslie assumed For of Iohne Baptist whose callinge Christ his answer to the Priestes prooverh to have beene extraordinarie it is witnessed that hee wrought no miracles as neither did divers Prophets before him And whatsoever was then either vsed or requisit while that manner of dispensation had place yet now when the whole Counsell of GOD is reveiled and that manner of dispensation altered miracles in these our tymes without any more were even enough wherefore to mistrust the worker For that howsoever at the beginning of the Gospell in so strange and great alterations as were the inbringing of the Gentiles and the abrogation of the legall worshippe which was of GOD his owne appointement it was as sayeth Augustin miraculis inchoata begun with miracles yet now the Sonne of man having long agoe come in his kingdome with power and the Sinagogue beeing buried with honour the case in these last tymes varieth so farre as miracles and wonders are the badge of Antichrist who hath come with all effectuall working of Sathan in signes lying wonders and strong delusion So as whosoever now worketh miracles quanto magis miraâ—ilia confiâ—emur tanto cautius vitare debemus How much more wonderfull wee confesse them to be wee ought the more warilie to eshew them as sayeth the same Augustin And this diversitie oâ— dispensation the holy Ghost in goodly and convenient types most fitlie expresseth Chapter 4. and Chapter 15. of the Revelation In the first is put a cleare Christallin Sea with seven burning Lampes apart So to designe the pure word worship according thereto in these first tymes accompanied with the powerfull cooperation of the holy spirit but in such sort as then there was a distinct outward and visible dispensation and donation of the holy spirit by imposition of hands and kything in visible symbols of the holy spirit and divers gifts and miraculous operations In the fifteene Chapter is shewed again that the Sea is cleare as Christall and hath the ioyned operation of the holy spirit but the Sea is mingled with the fyre To shew in the last dispensation for overthrow of Antichrist a puritie of the word and worship the vertue of the spirit ioyned therewith as at first but yet so as no dispensation of the spirit should be but by and with the word as mingled therewith all outward and visible extraordinarie donation of the spirit and miraculous operations now ceassing And verelie an other manner was requisite for bringing in first the Gentiles to the faith and so casting Satan from heaven even that the Gospell should be miraculis inchoata then for overturning his fraudfully reerected throne in the church vnder pretence of the Lambe his hornes and to much different dealing for burying the Synagogue with honour then for thrusting Antichrist to the doore with shame At first the Lord had to procure credit to his Gospell as to his owne sacred will word next again he had by this Gospell so now obtaining as the partie to be detected and overthrowen thereby dare not openly denie the authoritie thereof but to convince the traitour covered vnder false pretences 25. To disproove this power of plaine and prevayling truth and to discredit the argument of our miraculous successe thereby our adversaries yet ryse against vs with two obiections The first is that if successe and wyde obtayning were a note of truth then also or more iustlie might Arrianisme and Mahometisme acclaime the title thereof as wee But these instances are sophisticallie brought against the truth and vs. For albeit wee confesse heresie to bee verie contagious and the word thereof to be fretting as a gangrene through the conveniencie it hath with the vaine humour of man who is naturallie a lyer yet when soever it is put to iust tryall by the truth then can it retaine no strength It is indeed true that truth alwayes prevayleth not for then the mysterie of iniquitie had never attayned to such height but this falleth not through the weaknes of truth but partlie through the vanity of men who falling away froÌ„ the love and due regard of truth are in God his iustice given vp to the efficacie of errour Partlie through their vniust furie reiecting and persecuting the truth vntryed wherein yet the great odds betwixt veritie and lyes is wonderfull in that even in the highest degree of prevailing error while Satan hath a throne in the verie temple of God yet even then as in Pergamus the truth still dwelleth and a number keep the name of God even where Satan his throne is and against the terrour of bloodshed Whereas on the other part truth being but admitted to plead for it selfe albeit the holders have little strength as in Philadelphia yet the adversaries are forced to come and worship at their feet But this we maintaine and hold that when ever it pleaseth the Lord to send out his light and truth for leading men to his holy mountaine and that herefie howe stronglie soever grounded is reduced to due examination thereby that then albeit it hath vsurped even the holy citie court of the tempel yet by the true measuring reed it will be clearlie found to be cast out Their argument is a deceitfull falacie by confounding of divers cases and causes of the truth admitted to plead and of the same againe after in God his iustice hid or by mens crueltie and vniust violence debarred from all defence And this is evident in both the alleadged instances For Arianisme albeit having for it great but vnsanctified both learning and eloquence yet was ever ashamed before the truth till by the crueltie and violence of Easterne Emperours in Asia and
of arising impiety antichrist also arose to greater greater impatiency of any cure and to a tyrannicall intreating of opposers At first some freedom was of admonitions therafter they were repressed by deprivations degradations excommunications At last hee becommeth all and whollie of the Dragon his coulour and barbarouslie sheddeth the blood of Saints All which course of his waxing impietie and condition of Saints vnder and against him are so clearelie set foorth by the holy Ghost as I even loath to spend so many wordes in so plaine a matter And verelie if compassion of the weake whom they stupifie with these bugbaires did not moove me I would not once â—ake and were to such blind leaders of the blind and men so perverslie contentious against not onely invincible reasons but even clearlie foretold and fallen out cases The two witnesses a sufficient though a small number had a long tyme of prophecying and albeit in heavines for the prevailing evill and succes of the mysterie of iniquitie yet without open contestation But corruption growing to such height the beast not onely sitting in the holy city court of the temple but also treadding downe all true worship therein as of necessitie the right rod of examination behooved to be applied to discerne the temple the true Church and to trye if City and court being so far polluted could possibly come in the account of God his house or were to bee cast out Then the applying of the rod made Antichrist to perceave such to bee within him as he thought not of whom when thereupon he had so cruellie murthered even with applause of the blind worlde as they seemed not onely to be no more but also that their memorie was reproachfull and odious yet hee did find them revived in greater strength and visiblie at last to his griefe terrour to obtaine the tytle account of the true Church Wherat his kingdome falleth And this course of the Lord his working as it sheweth his great patience to the justifying of his iudgements against so obstinatlie impenitent an apostasie so it answereth abuÌ„dantlie the foolishe demands of our adversaries whereby in al the force of eloquence which a badde cause can affoord them they aske why in any case wee would not rather have reformed the Church then overthrow her and cured her rather then killed her forsaken her fellowship For first they are stil ridiculous in assuming the question by vsurping to theÌ„selves the tytle of the Church of which they are not in which they are no otherwayes then a soare proper evill of that body VVe have not forsaken the Church but have brought the Church out of Babel wherein shee was long captive We have not fled from the Church or left the ensigne but cleaving stil to the ensigne true Church we have iustly gone asyde from the traitour in the church pretending the Lambe his hornes but speaking with the mouth of the Dragon We have not rent the vnitie of the Church but by the example of the Apostle we have separated the Disciples from refractarie enemies Wee were so farre from wounding the Church as faine would wee have cured Babel in the Church but shee neither could nor would be cured So we behooved to leave her as a burnt mountaine wherein could not be found any more a stone for a corner or for a foundation Her grapes were become as the grapes of Adâ—aâ— and her vine as the vine of Tzeboim that without so much as once looking behind vs wee behooved to goe vp to the mountaine for our lives and forsake Sodom And least we should be partakers in her iudgements we have great reason it being said to vs Come vp hither to escape and be like the he goates of the flock comming out from among that contagious incurable companie and touching no vncleane thing Did we goe out of Babel till there was no balme for her soare Did she not so farre refuse all medicine as we lay cruellie slaine and barbarouslie vnburied in the streetes before we left her And yet one of their mylde men sorie as seemeth they had no more of our blood is not ashamed to aske why we did not rather chuse to suffer for the truth if so be we hold it then to have rent the vnitie of the Church Thus still the Whoore impudentlie braggeth of the Brydes name and albeit her filthines be discovered yet shameleslie having eaten Shee wipeth her mouth and sayeth shee hath committed no iniquitie 20. Now I hope I have cleared that howsoever the promise of God can not faile but that truth ever abydeth in the Church yea and by the ministrie of true pastours is and hath alwayes bene maintained therein yet neither have our adversaries anie thing whereof to boast heerein as who neither are the true Church nor true Pastours of it neither albeit both Church and Pastours communiter omnes all in common have fallen away from this truth that it derogateth ought to the veritie of God his promises whom as it pleaseth sometime for magnifying and manifestation of his truth and power in man his falsehood and weakenes to preserve his truth in a smal sparkle in and by a few secret sealed ones so when hee will have it to breake foorth in a great fyre for chassing away and dispelling all overclouding errour hee both may and hath at all such occasions raise vp men extraordinarily in the way of righteousnes and in evidence of his spirit and power to the iust conviction and confusion of them who having the ordinarie place of husband men in the Vineyard yet were become murtherers and having the ordinarie place of builders of the house yet were destroyers Neither tendeth this to open a doore for anie to despise the Church of God Which whosoeever heareth not let him be a Heathen and a Publicane Neither giveth it libertie to coÌ„temne the ordinarie means of God his dispensation by Pastours seeing none ordinarilie can beleeve but by hearing or heare but by preaching but as I have said before it is to waken Pastours to looke to their ministerie and how they keepe the covenant of Levie and not securilie to sleepe and whyle they looke but to their own wayes yet proudlie to make God the varlet of their affections And on the other part it is to stirre all Christians to a carefull studie to discerne betwixt the true church and the Synagogue of Sathan calling themselves Iewes and yet are not and betwixt true Pastours and false propheres coÌ„ming in sheepes clothing but within are ravening wolves for it becommeth men not to be rechles in so important a matter and if it had not bene both a high and requisite point of wisedome the Lord and his Apostles had not given so many sad and serious warnings to that effect 21. Here now as at the pulling from them of their Palladium to the evident peril of their Pergamus
Satans throne in it and the vndoubted subversion of their execrable Ilium they cry out a great cry and a bitter That if thus men once depart from the iudgement of the Church what certain warrant can they ever finde to stay on or What guyde can they be sure to follow for finding out of truth So still they cease not to dallie and shameleslie in one sort Wee would not have men to depart from the iudgement of the Church which is the piller and stable seate of truth and without which is neither veritie nor lyfe but howe much we are necessarilie to cleave thereto so much the more carefullie by the right rule of examination to trye and discerne betwixt the Church and the pretending harlot and to this end the Lord hath given vs his word his spirit and in all ages hath recommended them to his owne children as vndoubted guydes in all doubtfull cases so vnder the lawe men are ever exhorted to the lawe the Testimonie David and the Prophets direct al men alwayes thereto they have the Lawe and the Prophets saith Abraham in parables And our Lord for cleare testimonie of himselfe biddeth the Iewes search the scriptures Peter from an other spirit then have our adversaries calleth the word of the Prophets a sure and certaine word and exhorteth to attend thereto And Paul even vpon this that the Church is the house of God the piller and stable seat of trueth and that godlines is a great mysterie groundeth both a reason why hee did write to Timothie and an earnest exhortation to take heed to the reading of the scripturs for that many diverting therefroÌ„ and giving themselves to spirits of error and fables should fall from the truth and teach doctrines of Devils We read many warning not to be miscaried with common errors or the authoritie of men yea as I have before touched divers times both Pastors and people in common are taxed for falling away from the word We are exhorted carefullie to proove and try what word men doe offer vnto vs but never in all scripture have we so much as one mine of secure relying vpon the authoritie of ordinarie Pastors without due examination and the iudgement of al sound antiquitie accordeth hereto One of the Fathers saith thus Qui vuls cognoscere quae sit vera ecclesia non cognoscat nisi tautummâ—dâ— per scripturas and sone after Christiani ergo volentes firmitatem accipere doctrina verae ad nullam rem fugiant nisi ad Scripturas aliâ—qui si ad alia respexerint scandaliz abuntur peribunt non intelligentes quâ— sit vera ecclesia per hoc incident in abhominationem desolationis quâ— stat in sanctis ecclesiâ— locis the place is remarkeable in English thus who wil know which is the true church let him not seeke to know it but only by the scriptures c. Christians then willing to receave the stable assurance of true doctrine let them runne to nothing but to the scriptures otherwayes if they look to ought else they shall stumble and perish not vnderstanding which is the true Church and shall fall hereby in the abhomination of desolation which standeth in the holy places of the church This same is yet more plainly shewed in these wordes quum videritis c. that is when ye shall see vngodly heresie which is the armie of Antichrist standing in the holy places of the Church then let them who are in Iudea flee to the mountaines that is they who are of christianitie addresse themselves to the scriptures because when once that heresie hath obtained place in these Churches there can bee no tryall of true christianitie neither any other refuge for christians willing to know the veritie of the faith but the divine and holy Scriptures And the same Chrisostome in the same place Antea multis modis c. before many wayes was shewed which was the Church of Christ but nowe no maner of way but by the Scriptures Thus is cleare not only that the scripture is the sole rule of tryall but that the necessarie reason why only to have recourse thereto is Antichrist his obtaining so farre within the Church as to escape the abhomination of desolation standing therein also wee must runne and runne only to the Scriptures Non enim per alium saieth Ireneus dispositionem salutis nâ—strae cognovimus quam per eos per quos Evangelium pervenit ad nâ—â— quod quidem tunc praecomaverunt postea verâ— per Dei volâ—â—tatem in scripturis nobis tradiderunt fundamentum columnam fidei nostrâ— futurum that is for by none other have wee knowne the disposition of our salvation but by these by whom the Gospell hath come vnto vs which then they preached and thereafter by the will of God delivered to vs in the Scriptures to remain in all tymes to come the foundation and piller of our faith The same father in another place speaketh thus Plantatus est enim Ecclesiae Paradisus iâ— hoc mundo ab omni ergo ligno Pâ—radisi manducabis id est ab omni scriptura dominica c. that is for the Paradise of the Church is planted in this world thou shall eat therefore of every tree of Paradise that is of all the Lord his Scripture And as Ierome sayeth both pleasantly and pertinently When ever the Church looketh to any other warrant egreditur de finibus suis she passeth out of her owne bounds let any man in whom is left any spunk of spirituall sense conferre these sayings of the Fathers with the dealing and doctrine of Rome now labouring ever to divert men from this Paradise of the Scriptures where only is the fruit of lyfe to a barren wildernes without water and Cisternes of their owne digging and thus making millions to fall in that abhomination of desolation which standeth in the holy places of the Church but their soares are seene they shal prevaile no longer 22. They exclame here against vs that thus we pervert all order in God his house making every privat Christian iudge over Pastours and subduing the spirit of the Church to every privat spirit And O how they both please themselves and play themselves in amplifying the absurditie as they think of this point But to calme a little their chear heerein First I aske them is it not a common direction for all Christians to trye spirits and not to believe every spirit Are we not coÌ„manded to proove al things to hold that which is good Are we not often carefully exhorted to beware of false Prophets While they cannot or dare not though they would gainsay so cleare Scripture they runne to this that the only sure trial is to acquiesce in the iudgement of the Church But shameles men is not this all one thing as if they said the best triall were to â—se no triall at all And what doe they hereby but still assume the question It is
to the purpose of grace hath alwayes and ever shall holde the foundation without which shee could be no true Church at all But from the true Church and elect to the visible Church the argument concludeth not Next againe albeit in a right sense it be true of the visible Church that she ever holdeth the foundation because within the compasse of the visible Church the true militant Church abydeth alwayes as vnder the common ensigne yet hereupon to conclude that alwayes visibly the visible Church tota communiter whole in common doth hold the foundation it is a seene fallacie for she may fall from the foundation tota communiter the whole in common but never vniversaliter singuli in ea vniversally each one within her And howesoever mine adversarie will not yeeld me this point yet hee can not but condescend that this is here the state of our question whither I have in my first signed wordes graunted so much as will cōclude cleerly against my selfe that even the visible Church whole in common ever holdeth the foundation which is the assumption of this syllogisme which he thinketh to prove out of mine own words thus VVhere the Sacrament of Baptisme in substance remaineth and doctrine of the Trinitie is keeped sound that Church holdeth the foundation But in the Church alwayes even in time of greatest corruption the Sacrament of Baptisme in substance remained the doctrine of the Trinitie was keeped sound Therfore the Church alwayes even in time of greatest corruption held the foundation and consequently no place was at any time in her since her first constitution to extraordinarie calling VVhich is contrarie to my position The proposition hath an equivocation which to discover and so to avoid the deceit intended thereby I distinguishe thus If by the Sacrament of Baptisme in substance bee vnderstoode all the substantiall matter by Baptisme represented to our knowledge sealed vp through faith in our conscience and all the grace thereby through the cooperation of the holy Ghost conferred to vs and if by the doctrine of the Trinitie be vnderstood whatsoever we are taught and doe beleeve of that triple one either in himself or his dispensation towards vs and our duetie againe to him in that sense I yeeld the proposition to be true But if by the Sacrament of Baptisme in substance remaining be vnderstood only the sacramental action in the substantiall rites thereof so making it still to bee counted lawfull baptisme in substance albeit otherwayes miserablie infected with many superfluous and superstitious ceremonies and if by the doctrine of the Trinitie no more be vnderstood but that only one point of God one in substance and three in persons without which and the solemne invocation thereof in baptisme even the substance of that Sacrament were abolished then the proposition is clearlie false And the proponer would but illude in the words Substance and Doctrine except hee will affirme that for the foundation of our faith no more were requisite but these only two points And thus outtaking Samosatenus Sabellius Arrius and Manes and such others as either before or after them vnder whatsoever divers names symbolized with their particular errours all heretikes of whatsoever sect or tyme shal be reputed to have holden the foundation So shall Nestorius Eutiches and Appollinaris bee absolved from fundamentall errours so shall the denyers of the resurrection so shall the followers of spirits of errours and teaching doctrines of devills so shall the Nicolaitans teaching and committing fornication and idolatrie have kept the foundation Shall not the incarnation of the aeternall Sonne the personall vnion of the assumer and assumed the naturall veritie of both natures in that one person bee counted foundamentall Shall not the onely mediation and merit of that Person his Propheticall Priestlie and Royal offices and actions thereof the perfection efficacy and vertue of all be counted foundamentall Or shall the bare holding of GOD one in substance and three in persons bee any foundation at al to such as in the other points doe overthrow it It is strange that one acknowledging that the baptized by heretiks are not to bee rebaptized consequently acknowledging the baptisme ministred by them to be baptisme in substance which yet it could not be without the invocation of the Trinitie should yet vpō baptisme remayning in substance and that one point of the trinitie of persons thinke the foundation to be keeped when not onely open perverters and direct oppugners of foundamentall points but also adders of anie other to that only one foundation by the Apostle his sentence doe even fall from the foundation which otherwayes they would appeare both to professe and keepe The Sacrament of Baptisme and sounde doctrine of the Trinitie still kept in the visible Church and even in tota communiter was ever a sure and free entrie and as Augustin speaketh opportunum inquirendi exordium a common and convenient beginning to inquire by but yet so as who thereby entring held the straight course to the Temple where were the Candlestickes and the Olives and to mount Sion where was the Lambe These indeed held the foundation and the gates of hell never prevayled against them But who entring by that common entrie declyned from the right way leading to the Temple and mount Sion and did fall aside vpon and rest in the common pollution of Citie and Court following wondering after and worshipping the Beast and the Dragon even that abhomination of desolation standing also within the visible Church in Sanctis Ecclesiae locis as sayeth Chrisostome these fell so from the foundation as even that which to the others was the entrie and faire way to the Temple and Mountaine was to them of no more value then if they had never entered at all For that in missing of the rest they loosed even that also which otherwayes they appeared to have as in the foundation of a large Citie who raiseth so the building as hee keepeth but one stone of all must of necessity even fall from that also and bee no otherwayes said to hold the foundation then Saul pleaded that hee had fulfilled the commandement of the Lord which notwithstanding the Prophet affirmed hee had casten away and therefore was justly cast away of the Lord from being king of Israel Thus then the proposition of his argument being evidently false his conclusion also faileth and my two places doe well and clearly consist And considering how we doe charge the Church of Rome with intollerable prevarications almost in all fundamentall points against that one GOD in giving his glorie to creatures against the verity of Christ his humane nature by their prodigious transubstantiation against al his mediation offices and actions thereof by many fold and sacrilegious derogation vsurpation mutilation and overthrow of all the perfection fruit force and effect thereof so as the censurer cannot dissemble the cleare knowledge of my meaning in granting them the Sacrament of Baptisme in substance and
willingly yeeld their eies to bee pyked out least they should see and turne shal we then answer these demaunds Or as Godly and wyse Ezechia in the case of rayling Rabsacbee shall wee not resolve rather not to answer them one worde but to spred out their blasphemies before the Lord Yea verely Neither is ought I have heere said so much to make them any answere as to open to true Christian soules in Christian singlenes sobernes seeking light not in pryd perversnes to strengthen the Idols of their owne hearts how impertinently ridiculouslie deceitfullie these demaundes are proponed For whose fuller resolution herein c how farre what is requisit to be answered to them besides many other more learned works theÌ„ my sleÌ„dernes can affoord let theÌ„ read also my preceeding treatises of defence and my coÌ„mentarie on the RevelatioÌ„ and thereof specially that typicall relation which the seven Churches of Asia have to the militant Church according to her distinct and succeeding coÌ„ditions in the mystery of iniquitie working on the height and her arising againe from vnder that evill which point in the London copies vpon misconceaved ielousies was left out what I have writteÌ„ on the 8.9.10.11.14.16.17 and 20. chapters thereof Read my Lord of Plessie his learned workes of the mysterie of iniquitie and who lift to take the paines for more clear ample accommodation of all let them read the Magdeburgick storie and the particular conditions of the church set downe therin at length everie centenarie of yeares from our Lord his incarnation till our dayes By these any soundly set sensible soule shall finde sufficient resolution of al the course of Antichrist by degrees arysing to the toppe of sacrilegious impietie and how God still preserved a church in the mids of his most tyrannical vsurpation as for such persons as demand vs with no other hearts then the Pharisies did Christ or these who hypocriticallie asking counsell at the Prophet and then not finding it agreable to the biais of their foreplotted and corrupt conceptions did therefore impudently tell him thou speakest falstie the Lord our God hath not sent thee and the word which thou hes spoken to vs in the name of the Lord we will not heare it of thee but we will doe whatsoever thing goeth out of our owne mouth c. These we leave to the mist of their owne imaginations and iust induration of their owne deceitful and deceaved myndes whereto they are given vp iustly of the Lord because they delight in lies If any man be spirituall let him acknowledge that what I writ is the truth of God if any man will be ignorant let him bee ignorant Wisdome will bee alwayes iustified of her owne children and such as are filthie let them be filthie still Augustin de civitate Dei lib. 2 cap. 1. Si rationi perspicua veritatis infirmus humana coÌ„suetudinis sensus non anderet obsistere sed doctrinae salubri languorem suum tanquam medicinae subderet donec divine adiuterie fide pietatis impetiaÌ„te sanaretur non multo sermone opus esset ad coÌ„vincendum quemlibet vanae opinionis errorem his qui recte sentiunt sensa verbis sufficientibus explicant Nunc vero quoniam ille est maior tetrior insipientuÌ„ morbus animorum quo irrationabiles motus suos etiam post rationeÌ„ pléne redditam quanta homini ab homine debetur five nimia casitate qua nec aperta cernuÌ„tur sive obstinatissima pervicaciae qua ca quae cerâ—untur non feruntur tanquam ipsam rationem veritatemque defendunt fit necessitas copiosius dicendi plerumque res claras velut â—as non spectantibus intuendas sed quodammodo tangendas palpantibus conniventibus offeramus Et tamen quis disceptandi finis erit loquendi modus Si respondendum esse respondentibus semper existimeâ—us nam qui vel non possunt intelligere quod dicitur vel tam duri sunt adversitate mentis vt etiamsi intellexetint non obediant respondent vt scriptum est loquuntur iniquitatem atque infatigabiliter vani sunt Quorum dicta contraria si toties velimus refellere quoties obnixa fronte statuerint non curare quid dicant dum quo cunque modo nostris disputationibus contradicant quam sit infinitum erumnosum infructuosum vides Quamobrem nec te ipsum mi fili Marcelline nec alios quibus his labor noster in Christi charitate vtiliter liberaliter servit tales meorum scriptorum velim Iudices qui responsionem semper desiderent cum his quae leguntur audierint aliquid contradici ne fiant similes â—arum midurcularum quas commemorat Apostolus semper discentes ad veritatis scientiam nunquam pervenientes That is IF the weake sense of humane custome were not bolde to withstand the reason of cleare truth but did subdue her maladie to healthsome doctrine as to a medicine till holy faith obtayning by divine aide it were healed then to such men as both themselves mean soundlie and with dexteritie doe expresse their meanings in sufficient words it shuld not be needfull to spend much speach for convincing what soever erronius and vaine opinion But now because that disease of foolishe mindes is so much the greater and more detestable as even after a reason is fully given them so far as man to man is holden yet they maintaine no lesse their vnreasonable motions then if they were selfe reason and truth whither that this falleth through too great blindnes whereby they are not able to perceave most plaine things or through most obstinat perversnes whereby they cannot abyde even these things which they perceave clearly therefore oftymes men are of necessitie forced to speak the more amply even of plaine matters as offering them not so much to the view of men who see but even in a sort to bee handled by groapers and winkers And yet what either end shall their be of disputation or what measure of writing if we think that replyes must bee alwayes made to them who answere vs for who either are not able to vnderstand what is said or are so refractarie through frowardnes of minde as even though they vnderstand yet they will not yeeld they answere still as it is written and pratle iniquitie and they are vaine without wearying Whose gaine-sayings if we would refell al 's often as with wilfull headines they determine not to care what they say so they any way gainsay our disputations thou seest how endles toilsome and vnfruitfull a busines it were Wherefore my sonne Marcellin I neither would have thee nor any others for whose vse and vtilitie these my paines are in the love of Christ and freely taken to be such iudges of my writings as doe alwayes require a reply to be made whensoever they heare that ought is said against these things which they reade Least they become like to these woemen of whom the