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ID Title Author Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication) STC Words Pages
A14368 A stronge battery against the idolatrous inuocation of the dead saintes, and against the hauyng or setting up of images in the house of prayer, or in any other place where there is any paril of idolatrye, made dialoguewise by Iohn Veron VĂ©ron, John, d. 1563. 1562 (1562) STC 24686; ESTC S102670 105,295 264

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may_n wtout_fw-fr any_o scrupulositie_n of_o conscinece_n be_v present_a at_o the_o sacrifice_n of_o the_o gentile_n and_o sit_v with_o they_o at_o their_o feast_n and_o banquet_n which_o they_o do_v keep_v in_o the_o honour_n of_o their_o idol_n for_o the_o mind_n be_v restore_v unto_o itself_o do_v honour_n and_o worship_v the_o true_a live_a god_n alone_o therefore_o it_o contemn_v ydole_n and_o can_v not_o sith_o it_o be_v purify_v by_o faith_n be_v pollute_v or_o defile_v with_o those_o thing_n that_o be_v offer_v unto_o they_o reason_n paule●_n auns●vere_v to_o ●heir_v reason_n unto_o all_o those_o paul_n make_v this_o answer_n although_o thou_o do_v believe_v that_o there_o be_v but_o one_o god_n and_o do_v therefore_o understande_v that_o both_o the_o idol_n the_o worshyp_v of_o they_o and_o the_o sacrifice_n offer_v unto_o they_o be_v but_o mere_a vanity_n yet_o all_o man_n do_v not_o see_v so_o much_o neither_o do_v they_o come_v to_o the_o sacrifice_n with_o the_o same_o 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to_o their_o own_o reason_n the_o glory_n of_o god_n shall_v better_o be_v know_v if_o god_n be_v manife_v and_o reveal_v rather_o by_o the_o live_n and_o reasonable_a creature_n than_o by_o the_o unlyve_n and_o unreasonable_a wherein_o they_o do_v work_v great_a ungodlynesse_n to_o their_o own_o destruction_n albion_n i_o hear_v once_o this_o place_n allege_v but_o answer_n be_v make_v again_o it_o reply_v of_o the_o adversary_n answer_v to_o it_o that_o athanasius_n do_v write_v against_o the_o gentile_n and_o heathen_a and_o that_o therefore_o this_o place_n make_v nothing_o against_o they_o philalethes_n and_o i_o say_v that_o as_o these_o word_n be_v write_v against_o the_o heathen_a so_o may_v they_o be_v allege_v against_o they_o that_o do_v bring_v in_o the_o gentilism_n or_o heathenyshe_a fashyon_n and_o what_o be_v see_v i_o pray_v you_o in_o our_o picture_n and_o ymage_n besides_o the_o stuff_n that_o they_o be_v make_v of_o and_o shape_n that_o be_v give_v unto_o they_o they_o say_v that_o the_o form_n or_o shape_n that_o be_v give_v unto_o they_o do_v signify_v and_o teach_v but_o i_o will_v fain_o know_v of_o they_o unprofitable_a the_o ymage_n do_v neither_o teach_v he_o learn_v not_o yet_o the_o unlearned_a ergo_fw-la they_o ●e_v unprofitable_a who_o their_o ymage_n and_o picture_n do_v teach_v the_o learned_a or_o the_o unlearned_a i_o be_o sure_a they_o can_v not_o teach_v the_o unlearned_a onelesse_a they_o have_v a_o interpreter_n behind_o they_o for_o the_o unlearned_a without_o a_o teacher_n shall_v never_o be_v able_a to_o learn_v what_o be_v signify_v or_o represent_v by_o the_o image_n of_o the_o virgin_n mary_n nor_o yet_o by_o the_o image_n of_o the_o crucifix_n the_o learned_a have_v no_o need_n at_o all_o to_o learn_v of_o picture_n and_o ymage_n the_o same_o which_o he_o have_v most_o certain_o learn_v by_o god_n word_n what_o shall_v they_o be_v able_a to_o say_v to_o his_o that_o the_o chief_a mystery_n of_o our_o religion_n can_v be_v express_v with_o no_o colour_n for_o with_o what_o pencelle_n shall_v they_o be_v able_a to_o express_v the_o virtue_n of_o our_o redemption_n image_n the_o chief_a mystery_n of_o our_o salvation_n can_v not_o be_v express_v by_o any_o image_n the_o glory_n of_o the_o life_n to_o come_v the_o imitation_n of_o virtue_n and_o the_o obedience_n of_o the_o word_n let_v we_o therefore_o content_a our_o self_n with_o the_o most_o true_a teacher_n i_o mean_v the_o holy_a ghost_n which_o do_v teach_v we_o with_o the_o word_n of_o life_n and_o with_o the_o sacrament_n ordain_v by_o the_o eternal_a wisdom_n of_o god_n whereby_o all_o thing_n pertain_v to_o our_o salvation_n my_o plain_o be_v set_v forth_o unto_o we_o and_o receive_v or_o understand_v of_o theym_n that_o be_v not_o void_a of_o the_o spirit_n of_o god_n dydimu_n yet_o no_o answer_n have_v be_v make_v to_o this_o their_o objection_n where_o they_o say_v that_o although_o it_o be_v not_o lauful_a in_o the_o old_a time_n to_o express_v god_n with_o a_o image_n because_o he_o be_v not_o yet_o see_v in_o a_o human_a form_n or_o shape_n yet_o since_o be_v incarnate_v he_o be_v make_v like_o unto_o we_o in_o all_o thing_n sin_n only_o be_v except_v it_o be_v lawful_a for_o to_o have_v a_o image_n of_o he_o philalethes_n answer_n to_o the_o .32_o objection_n 7._o dan._n c_o 7._o what_o will_v they_o say_v to_o this_o place_n of_o daniel_n the_o ancient_a of_o day_n do_v sytte_a who_o garment_n be_v white_a as_o snow_n and_o the_o hear_v of_o his_o head_n like_o the_o pure_a wool_n and_o by_o and_o by_o after_o as_o i_o behold_v in_o vision_n by_o night_n behold_v one_o like_o the_o son_n of_o man_n come_v in_o the_o cloud_n of_o heaven_n and_o approach_v unto_o the_o ancient_a of_o the_o day_n and_o they_o bring_v he_o before_o he_o read_v you_o beside_o the_o 33._o and_o four_o and_o thirty_o chapter_n of_o exodus_fw-la and_o the_o sixth_o chapter_n of_o esaie_n in_o the_o mean_a while_o none_o of_o the_o ancient_a prophet_n or_o of_o the_o holy_a man_n of_o god_n do_v set_v up_o a_o image_n unto_o the_o father_n or_o unto_o the_o son_n neither_o do_v attempt_v to_o represente_v he_o by_o any_o similitude_n or_o shape_n make_v after_o the_o likeness_n of_o man_n and_o what_o other_o thing_n do_v let_v they_o to_o do_v it_o but_o the_o playnenesse_n of_o the_o commandment_n of_o god_n paint_v the_o son_n of_o god_n do_v not_o take_v upon_o he_o our_o frail_a nature_n to_o the_o end_n that_o he_o shall_v break_v god_n law_n or_o be_v paint_v and_o the_o reverence_n that_o they_o bear_v unto_o it_o neither_o do_v our_o saviour_n jesus_n christ_n take_v upon_o he_o our_o human_a nature_n for_o to_o break_v the_o law_n of_o god_n or_o for_o to_o geve_v unto_o painter_n a_o pattern_n or_o proof_n of_o their_o art_n but_o for_o to_o be_v the_o pledge_n of_o the_o grace_n of_o god_n of_o the_o eternal_a covenaunt_n and_o of_o the_o conjunction_n that_o be_v betwixt_o god_n and_o we_o and_o that_o he_o may_v have_v what_o to_o offer_v for_o we_o for_o the_o price_n of_o our_o redemption_n &_o declare_v what_o we_o mortal_a man_n ought_v to_o hope_v for_o for_o therefore_o do_v he_o rise_v again_o and_o do_v carry_v up_o into_o heaven_n the_o body_n that_o he_o take_v of_o we_o that_o we_o shall_v believe_v and_o be_v full_o persuade_v that_o our_o body_n shall_v once_o be_v translate_v and_o take_v up_o from_o this_o vale_n of_o misery_n be_v glorify_v into_o the_o everla_a kingdom_n of_o heaven_n now_o as_o much_o as_o the_o body_n doothe_v excel_v or_o be_v better_a than_o the_o shadow_n so_o much_o doothe_v the_o thing_n which_o be_v represent_v by_o the_o sign_n better_a than_o the_o sign_n this_o note_v this_o but_o the_o flesh_n of_o our_o saviour_n jesu_n christ_n if_o it_o have_v remain_v here_o after_o the_o mystery_n of_o our_o salvation_n be_v fulfil_v have_v profit_v we_o nothing_o much_o less_o shall_v the_o lineament_n picture_n or_o image_n of_o the_o body_n of_o our_o saviour_n jesu_n christ_n do_v we_o any_o good_a as_o touch_v his_o divine_a nature_n he_o be_v coequal_a and_o of_o one_o substance_n with_o the_o father_n but_o esaie_n in_o the_o xl_o chapter_n all_o nation_n say_v he_o before_o he_o be_v as_o nothing_o and_o they_o be_v count_v to_o he_o less_o than_o nothing_o and_o vanity_n to_o who_o then_o will_v they_o like_o god_n or_o what_o similitude_n will_v you_o set_v up_o unto_o he_o dydimus_n obie_n 33_o i_o hold_v myself_o content_a with_o this_o answer_n but_o what_o say_v you_o to_o this_o which_o i_o hear_v but_o a_o while_n ago_o i_o be_v in_o a_o place_n where_o we_o enter_v into_o disputation_n concern_v these_o word_n idol_n and_o image_n and_o there_o some_o do_v affirm_v that_o you_o do_v they_o great_a wrong_n in_o this_o that_o you_o call_v their_o image_n idol_n where_o as_o there_o be_v a_o great_a difference_n betwixt_o they_o for_o by_o this_o word_n eidole_n they_o do_v understand_v the_o representation_n of_o a_o thing_n that_o be_v not_o but_o this_o word_n image_n which_o sometime_o of_o the_o latin_n be_v call_v simulachrum_fw-la be_v the_o representation_n of_o a_o thing_n which_o be_v in_o deed_n phila._n answer_n this_o be_o i_o sure_a they_o can_v not_o deny_v but_o that_o where_o soever_o the_o 70._o interpreter_n have_v this_o word_n cidolum_fw-la ydole_fw-la hierom_n do_v translate_v it_o simulachrum_fw-la a_o image_n and_o in_o his_o eleven_o book_n of_o his_o commentary_n upon_o esaie_n hierome_n hierome_n upon_o these_o word_n of_o ezechias_n prayer_n thou_o only_o be_v the_o god_n of_o all_o kingdom_n their_o god_n be_v no_o god_n but_o the_o work_n of_o man_n hand_n wood_n and_o stone_n he_o do_v say_v he_o bold_o pray_v unto_o the_o lord_n and_o doothe_v affirm_v he_o to_o be_v the_o only_a lyve_n god_n whereby_o we_o do_v understande_v that_o eidole_n be_v the_o ymage_n of_o dead_a man_n so_o far_o hierom._n papist_n a_o strong_a argument_n again_o to_o the_o papist_n now_o will_v i_o thus_o reason_n with_o they_o be_v not_o their_o image_n the_o image_n of_o dead_a man_n but_o eidole_n be_v the_o image_n of_o dead_a man_n therefore_o their_o image_n be_v but_o eidol_n it_o be_v plain_a than_o the_o eidolu_fw-la ●_o simulachrum_fw-la that_o be_v a_o idol_n &_o a_o image_n be_v all_o one_o thing_n erasmꝰ_n erasmꝰ_n erasmus_n in_o his_o annotation_n that_o he_o do_v make_v upon_o the_o new_a testament_n which_o work_n be_v so_o hygh_o commend_v by_o their_o holy_a father_n pope_n leo_n the_o ten_o write_v on_o this_o manner_n thomas_n de_fw-fr aquino_n doothe_v bring_v a_o new_a difference_n betwixt_o id●lum_n a_o ydole_n and_o simulachrum_fw-la a_o image_n because_o that_o a_o