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word_n	greek_a	latin_a	translate_v	3,558	5	9.2013	5	false

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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A07436	A plaine subuersyon or turnyng vp syde down of all the argumentes, that the Popecatholykes can make for the maintenaunce of auricular confession with a moste wholsome doctryne touchyng the due obedience, that we owe vnto ciuill magistrates, made dialogue wyse betwene the prentyse and the priest by Gracyous Menewe.	Menewe, Gracious.; Becon, Thomas, 1512-1567, attributed name.	1555 (1555)	STC 17822; ESTC S109991	27,582	98

the higher powers And in an other place warne thē saieth he that they submitte thēselues to rule and power to obei y e officers Priest The better yt knowe youre duty towardes the hygher powers and magistrates the greater muste be your condemnacyon because ye doe it not For the seruaunt that knoweth hys masters wyl and doeth it not shalbe beaten with many strypes Here ye thys yonge man Doe ye not also reade in the place that ye haue alleaged that thei that resist the magistrates whych are the ordeynaunce of God shall receaue to themselues damnation Prentyse All that ye haue sayd is true But what doth it make for our purpose For where the scryptures worde of God doeth bydde vs to obeye the hygher powers and magistrates it is not to be vnderstāded of those thynges that pertein to the conscience of manne whych ought onli and soleli to be builded vpon the infallyble worde of god in matters belongyng to saluacyon but of ciuill cōstitutiōs lawes and ordeynaunces that temporall rulers gouernours magistrates make for the preseruacyon of the commen weale wherevnto doubtlesse we ought to be obedyente as long as they commaunde nothyng that is vngodlye or forbydde nothyng that God hath cōmaunded vs to doe Priest Why doth not S. Peter saye submitte youre selues to all maner ordeynaunce of man for the Lordes sake Here the blessed Apostel S. Peter doeth bydde vs to be obedyente to all maner of ordeinaunce of man wythoute any exception Whatsoeuer than they cōmaunde and ordayne we are bounde to obeye it layinge asyde all curiouse questioning For it is neither mete nor conueniente that subiectes shoulde busye themselues aboute Princes matters asking why haue they ordayned thys Or why haue they ordayned that We oughte wythoute any such busye askynge or questionynge to be obedyente whatsoeuer thei cōmaunde vs. If their lawes and statutes be vngodly they theyr selues shal answere for it and not we Our blood shall be required at their handes if they sette forth any thynge contrary to Gods worde In the meane ceason we that be subiectes are bounde to obeye thē Prentyse As touchynge the text that ye haue alleaged oute of the fyrste Epystell of Saint Peter it oughte otherwyse to bee vnderstanded than ye doe expounde it Els had the blessed Apostel himselfe done contrarye to hys owne saying for when the rulers and elders of Hierusalem wyth Annas the chiefe Priest had commaunded him and Iohn that in no wise thei should speake or teache in the name of Iesu they would in no wise obeye but rather aunswered them stoutelye sayinge whether it bee ryght in the sight of God to obey you more than God iudge ye And in an other place he wyth the other Apostles sayth plainly thus better it is to obeye God than mā Wherfore master person we must necessarely note here that there be .2 kynds of ordeinaunces of man The one aperteining to relygyon and those wythout goddes holye worde ar altogether vngodly and in no wyse to be folowed For thei bidde vs to worshype God after mans fancyes and wycked inuēcyons of worldly wysdome and not as he himselfe wylbe worshypped and serued Therfore they that folowe them shall iustlye heare thys sharpe rebuke of the heauenly wisdome of god this people draweth nye vnto me wyth theyr mouthes and honoreth me wyth their lips Howe beit their hartes are farre from me teachyng doctrynes that are but mens preceptes Yea the lord threatneth his people because they feared hym throughe mens lawes and doctrynes that he wold destroie the wisdom of their wise and that the vnderstandynge of theyr learned men should perishe And not wythoute a good cause doeth the Lorde threaten that he wyll doe thus for sithens thei doe preferre their own wisdom before the wysedome of God doe they not well deserue I praye you to haue that wisdome whiche God had geuen them for to bestowe to hys own glory to be taken awaye from them So that the saying of S. Paul is fulfilled in them wher he sayth when they counted themselues wyse they became fooles For why When they knew God they glorified him not nor yet worshipped hym as god For yf they woulde haue worshipped hym as God they would not haue sought other maner wayes to worshyppe and serue him than he hymselfe hath appoynted To be shorte the rewarde of thē that wyll not submitte them selues to the euerlastyng worde of God and serue hym after the phansyes of mens dreames is to haue theyr foolyshe hartes blinded with vaīe imaginations and to be geuen vp into their owne lustes Wherefore I woulde counsel all men to beeware of them and to say with that holy father S. Ambrose Nos noua omnia que Christus non docuit iuredānamus quia fidelibus via Christus est Si igitur Christus non docuit quod docemus etiam nos id detestabile iudicamus We doe by a good ryght condemne all newe thynges that Christe hath not taught ▪ therfore if Christ hath not taught that which we teache we iudge it also to be detestable And no merueill for in an other place he sayeth playnly that what soeuer hath not been set forth by y e Apostls y e sāe is ful of wickednes And wyl ye bynde vs to be obedyente to that which is detestable and wycked Priest I say stil that subiectes ought not to busy themselues about Princes matters For as ye heard already if their lawes bee naughte and wycked then they their selues shall aunswere for it Prentise In dede in thynges that appertayne to ciuill lawes constitutions and ordeynaunces whyche magistrates be wonte too make for the preseruatyon of the commen weale we oughte to laye asyde all busye and curyous questenyng For if their lawes be not accordyng to iustice and equite or if by their wicked statuts their subiects be oppressed they shall receaue acōdygne punishmēt at the righteous hand of God yea the blood of thē y t shal perysh through their vnrighteousse lawes shalbe required at theyr handes And thys is the other kynde of ordeinaunces made by manne wherunto as I haue sayd before we ought to be obedyent and that wythoute any exceptyon as farre forth as they be nothing repugnāt to godlynesse and Christian charitye And wythout all peraduenture S. Peter speaketh ther in the place afore alleaged of thys kynd of ordeynaunces Howbeit if both the Greke and latyne be well weyed we shal soone perceaue that Peter doeth here set forth the same selfe doctrine which Paul himselfe doeth teache in the 13. to the Romaynes for the Greke wordes are these hypotagete pase anthropine ctisei and Erasmus doeth translate them after thys maner Subditi estote cuiuis humane creature And in Englyshe they may be translated thus be subiecte to all humayne creature or to all menne For although thys worde ctisis may be taken for ordeynaunce yet by the texte that foloweth it appeapeareth it ought

rather to be taken as Erasmus hath trāslated Mark wel the circumstances of the texte youre selfe and reade that which foloweth immediatly after y e same sentence that ye haue broughte in and than I trust ye wyll confesse my saying to be true Priest What foloweth I praye you For I perceue y t ye are a doctour Prentise I would be glad to be a disciple master person if I could fynde such a doctour as would teache nothyng els but true Godlynesse The woordes that folowe are these or rather that we maye vnderstand the whole matter the better I wyl repete the whole sētēce I meane both your texte and that whych foloweth Priest Wel do so Prentyse Submitte youre selfs vnto all maner ordynaunce of mā or as Erasmus translateth to all maner creature for the Lords sake whether it be vnto the king as vnto the chiefe heade other vnto rulers as vnto them that are sent of him for the punishment of euil doers but for the laude of them that doe wel Thys texte I trow is playne enough so that we nede no longer tarying aboute it Priest Saye ye what ye will I will be of thys opinion as long as I lyue that the subiectes shall bee excused beefore God if they folowe and obey the lawes of y e higher powers be they neuer so wicked and vngodly Prētyse And that mayster person is a deuilyshe and abominable opiniō Doeth not Christ say if the blinde doe leade the blinde they shall fall both into the diche He sayeth not that y e leader only or guide shal fal but y t they shal both fal And y e like reade we in y e prophete Hieremy wher he saith y t both y e fals prophet and also they that harkē vnto thē shal perysh with swerde with hūger and wyth pestilence Pryeste Doeth not the Prophete Ezechiel saye playnly that the blood of the shepe shalbe requyred at the shepeheardes handes Ye wyll not deny that the higher powers in the scriptures and also in prophane autors ar called Pastores populi that is to say the shepeheardes of the peopell Prentise I graunt that they be Pastores populi that is to say the shepeheardes of the people and y t their shepes blood shalbe required at theyr handes But what shall thys be for the easemente of the poore shepe The Prophete sayeth that they shall perysh and not only the shepeherds whose damnacion in dede shall be the greater because that they shall not onelye answere for their owne sinnes but also for the losse of thē that were of God committed into their handes But as I haue already sayed that shal bee but a small helpe and comfort for them when they their selues beeynge in the euerlastynge paynes of hell whereunto they ar brought through the neglygence wicked lawes of their shepherds shall see them to suffer greater punyshment than they dooe their selues I would fayne aske you a questyon master person Priest Aske what ye wyll Prentyse Is it lawfull for the inferior magystrates to make lawes cōtrary to y e lawes of the higher power Pryeste No by S. Mary Prentyse What if the inferiour magistrates shoulde presume to make any suche lawes Pryest I woulde counte them no better thā treatours Prentis And what wyl ye say of them that know the higher powers lawes and yet layinge them asyde folowe and obeye the lawes y t the inferiour magistrats haue made As for an example if the depute of Cales should take presumptuously vpon hym to set forth statutes contrarye to the Quenes lawes what woulde ye iudge hym to be and all them that woulde obeye hys statutes and commaundementes Prieste I woulde iudge hym to be a treatoure and all the other to be as accessories vnto him Prentyse Ye knowe ryght wel master person that they that be accessoryes vnto any euill and wycked dede as vnto treason thefte murther and other lyke doe receaue the same punishment that the wycked doers are condemned to Prieste No doubt therof Prentise verye well what saye ye nowe is not the lyuing God the father of oure Lorde Iesu Chryste the hygheste Monarche of all And haue not all the kinges and Prynces of the earth their power and autorite from hym Pryeste Yeas truely For the Psalmist sayeth not onely that he is a greate God but that he is a great kynge aboue all Goddes And Sayncte Paule in the .13 to y e Romaynes wryteth that there is no power but of God and that al the powers that bee are ordayned of God Prentyse It reioyseth my hearte to heare you speake so wel Is it lawfull then for the rulers kynges and Prynces of the earth to make any statutes decrees and lawes contrarye to the commaundement of theyr high Monarche and kyng from whom they haue and receaue all the autorytye and power that thei haue Priest They ought in no wyse so to dooe for as Chryste doeth bydde vs to pay that vnto Ceasar which is due vnto Ceasar so doeth he cōmaūde vs to paye that vnto God y t is due vnto God If God then wil haue that to be payed vnto Cesar that is to say to the ciuill magistrates rulers and gouernours that by hys owne appoyntmente is due vnto them what an ingratitude and vnthankfulnesse should it be if they wold let men to pay that vnto god which is of al men due vnto hym I woulde verelye counte them no lesse then ranke traitours Prentis And what is your iugement of thē that obeye theyr wicked lawes and vnlawfull commaundementes Priest I must nedes confesse that they are accessoryes vnto them consequently that they shalbe partakers of the same punishmente that such wycked and vngodly rulers shall by the righteous iudgement of god receaue at length Prētyse Thys that ye say master person is most true and therfore that holy man S. Bernarde wryting to a certayne Moonke called Adam sayeth these wordes we oughte in no wyse to obeye them that commaunde wycked thynges for that were to breake the hygher obedyence that is to say the obedience y t we owe vnto God for to obeye inferioure and humayne creatures What then That thynge whyche man commaundeth God doth forbydde And shal I geue eares vnto mā beeyng defe to god The Apostles did not so but cryed out sayīg better it is to obeye God then men And by and by he concludeth Igtur facere malum quolibet etiam iubente constat non esse obedientiam sed potius inobedientiam That is to say therfore to doe euil at the commaundement of any mā it is playne and euident that it is no obedience but rather disobedience Saincte Hierome wryteth on thys maner if that which the Emperoure or hys depute doeth commaunde be good obeye or folowe the wil of hym that cōmaūdeth it but if it be naught or wycked and agaynste God aunswere them out of the Actes of the Apostles better it is to obeye God than menne S. Ambrose

what fasshiō they cōfessed theyr synnes where shall we learne better then in the thyrde Chapiter of the Gospell of Luke ▪ For after Ihon had made his dreadefull sermon the people being striken with a feare of Gods righteouse iudgemente asked hym saying What shall we do than Likewise the Publicans and the Souldiours that came to be baptised Let anye indifferente manne reade the whole place throughoute And as for your shryuinge afore the receyuinge of the Sacramente wolde god that godly order which was set fourthe in kynge Edwardes dayes whome we maye rightwel call the flour of all Christendom myghte hadde ben kepte and obserued For in many churches that were godlye refourmed the Communicantes should the night before bee called together before the ministre there to receiue most godly instructions And if any contentiō stryfe or hatred hadde ben betwene any personnes there shoulde hadde ben honeste agreemente made or euer they had come to the Lordes borde all notorious and open synners beinge excluded from it And what godly confession were they wont to make together in the face of the whole churche afore y e holy communion was ministred vnto them No suche thinges are now vsed but rather all is done contrarye to the order of the holy Ghoste withoute any edifyinge And this one onely thing oughte to fraye all godly men women to be present at it For who being godly mynded wolde seme w t his presence to consente agree too y e breaking of that order which the holy Ghoste hath appointed and ordeyned to bee in the churche of God But of this we will commone more at large when ye shal be at better leasure Prieste Well I perceyue that I muste talke with you concerninge this receyuinge of the Sacrament But I haue businesse nowe therfore differring that cōmunication tyll an other tyme I will make an ende of this present matter that we haue in hande Are not these sainct Iames woordes knowledge your fautes one to an other Can ye denye that the holye Ghost doeth here bidde ordeyne and commaunde confession What are all the heretykes in all the whole worlde able too saye agaynste this manifest and playne saying of this most holy Apostel Prentyse Ye shoulde haue rehersed the whole texte For he did not onely saye Confesse or knowledge youre fautes one too an other but also praye one for an other Whereby it must nedes folow seinge he commaundeth as well mutuall prayer as mutuall confession if we must confesse and knowledge our fautes onelye too the priestes that we muste alsoo praye for them onely What an absurditie shoulde this be Moreouer it shoulde folowe of Iames wordes that priestes only ought to confesse and knowledge theyr fautes one to an other For when Iames willeth vs too confesse or knowledge our fautes one too an other he speaketh of such as must heare one an others confession For so soūdeth this Greke worde allelois whiche is as muche too saye as mutually or reciprocally But none after the bishope of Romes lawe canne or maye heare one an others confession onelesse they bee priestes after hys holye order and thys can bee vnderstanded but of suche as oughte too knowledge their fautes one to an other or heare the confession one of an other Therefore this place serueth nothinge for youre purpose Let vs rather seeke the true meaninge of it maister personne that wee maye haue profit thereby The true meaninge therefore of this texte of saincte Iames is that we oughte to knowledge our infirmities weakenesses and fautes one too an other too the ende we maye geue good wholsome and comfortable counsaill one too an other and knowynge in what case or state we stande all praye one for an other moste earnestlye vnto God for the helpe and assistaunce of hys holye spyryte but mooste specially for the forgeuenesse of oure synnes Prieste I perceyue well enough what marke ye shout at Ye will haue no confessiō at all that so y maye lyue styll after a carnall lybertie Prentyse As though that kynde of confession that ye vse coulde refrayne or kepe men from carnall libertie Priest Men neuer lyued soo dissolutely nor so wantonelye as they haue done sence this holy confession haue bē put doune There is nowe no shamefastenesse in the worlde honestye is clene gone youth standeth in no awe And why is thys Because forsouth they are free from the yoke of holy shryfte All the yeare longe when they remembred that they muste come vnder BENEDICITE they were affrayed to do any thyng amisse but when it was gone once so y t they wer deliuered frō al fear of cōfessiō they did set al at sixe seuen not passyng how they dyd lyue For they knewe that they shold be called to no reckenyngs Wherfore any man may easely se whi ye be so great an enemy to the wholsome ordeynaunce cōstitution of the church Prētise Wher as ye laye to my charge y t I will haue no cōfessiō ye shamfully slāder me For I haue alwayes alowed y t kynde of confessyon that god hath commaunded vs in hys holy scripture but y t beggerly cōfession that ye haue inuented of your own braynes without gods holy worde to bryng all mens cōsciences vnder your gyrdels I do vtterly detest abhorre And it is so farre of y t mē should by it lerne to feare god that rather by it the feare of God is dryuen and clene chassed away out of their hearts For when the rude simple are once perswaded that if thei be ōce in the yere shriuen of the Prieste thei shal haue cleane remission of their synnes and receaue if at lest they wilbe stil y e children of your whoryshe mother Antichrystes church ful absolution both a pena et culpa what care they howe they lyue al the yeare long It is enough thinke they if a litell beefore Easter they cōe to sir Iohn lacke latin and tel him a tale in the eare of an houre long and y t they may escape the better chepe loke whō they know to be most foolish most vnlearned emōg the rabblement of priestes him will thei chose for their gostly father For why they haue been made to beleue y t al the sinnes y t thei confesse themselues of vnto y t prieste are quite clene forgeuē put out of remembraunce before god euē as soone as they haue tolde them to their gostly father As for repentaunce the due fruetes thereof it is not vnknowen how wel and how substātially ye hādel y e matter emonge you For whereas ye should sende them to Christ who is y e only phisicion of y e soules exhort thē to such works as God hath prepared for vs to walke in ye most vngodly send thē to dead creatures prescribing vnto them not y e workes cōmaūded of God but superstitious works of youre own inuētion making thē an hondreth fold more y e children of hel thā they