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ID Title Author Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication) STC Words Pages
A18078 A replye to an ansvvere made of M. Doctor VVhitgifte Against the admonition to the Parliament. By T.C. Cartwright, Thomas, 1535-1603. 1573 (1573) STC 4712; ESTC S120563 333,686 231

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woman_n shall_v have_v their_o voice_n which_o be_v unseemly_o all_o man_n understand_v that_o where_o the_o election_n be_v most_o free_a and_o most_o general_a yet_o only_o they_o have_v to_o do_v which_o be_v head_n of_o family_n and_o that_o this_o be_v but_o a_o mere_a cavil_n to_o bring_v the_o truth_n in_o hatred_n which_o be_v unworthy_a to_o be_v answer_v &_o require_v rather_o a_o censor_n then_o a_o disputer_n to_o suppress_v it_o to_o the._n 47._o and._n 48._o page_n the_o reason_n be_v of_o great_a force_n than_o you_o will_v seem_v to_o make_v it_o for_o as_o the_o twelve_o place_n be_v to_o mathias_n so_o be_v a_o certain_a church_n unto_o a_o pastor_n or_o minister_v and_o as_o the_o apostle_n ordain_v none_o unto_o that_o place_n before_o it_o be_v void_a so_o ought_v not_o the_o bishop_n ordain_v any_o until_o there_o be_v a_o church_n void_a and_o destitute_a of_o a_o pastor_n and_o as_o the_o apostle_n ordain_v not_o any_o apostle_n further_o than_o they_o have_v 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his_o church_n again_o of_o which_o sort_n be_v master_n wickliff_n in_o our_o country_n master_n hus_n and_o jerome_n of_o prague_n in_o bohemia_n luther_n and_o ♉_o winglius_fw-la in_fw-it germany_n etc_n etc_n and_o after_o this_o sort_n god_n may_v at_o his_o good_a pleasure_n work_v when_o he_o purpose_v to_o set_v in_o his_o gospel_n in_o any_o nation_n where_o the_o whole_a face_n of_o the_o earth_n be_v cover_v with_o the_o darkness_n of_o ignorance_n and_o want_n of_o the_o knowledge_n of_o god._n of_o this_o sort_n of_o extraordinary_a function_n be_v the_o prophet_n also_o which_o beside_o a_o singular_a dexterity_n and_o readiness_n of_o expound_v the_o scripture_n have_v also_o the_o gift_n of_o tell_v thing_n to_o come_v which_o because_o it_o be_v not_o now_o ordinary_o i_o think_v there_o be_v none_o wildeny_v but_o it_o be_v a_o extraordinary_a call_n for_o the_o other_o two_o of_o the_o apostle_n and_o evangelist_n it_o shall_v appear_v more_o at_o large_a hereafter_o 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say_v that_o they_o have_v a_o charge_n and_o they_o have_v flock_n and_o city_n to_o attend_v and_o watch_v upon_o for_o a_o wholo_fw-la shire_n or_o province_n or_o realm_n be_v their_o flock_n and_o their_o city_n and_o their_o charge_n first_o of_o all_o in_o your_o read_a minister_n that_o be_v untrue_a for_o they_o go_v not_o to_o read_v in_o all_o church_n but_o tarry_v until_o they_o be_v hire_v in_o one_o and_o therefore_o when_o the_o bishop_n have_v lay_v his_o hand_n of_o they_o they_o be_v no_o more_o minister_n then_o before_o his_o hund_v come_v upon_o they_o because_o they_o have_v no_o charge_n and_o therefore_o the_o patron_n or_o person_n that_o hire_v they_o to_o read_v and_o set_v they_o a_o work_n be_v their_o bishop_n and_o make_v they_o minister_n and_o not_o the_o bishop_n of_o the_o diocese_n secondary_o for_o those_o that_o preach_v to_o have_v a_o whole_a diocese_n or_o province_n or_o realm_n to_o be_v their_o flock_n or_o city_n to_o attend_v upon_o be_v 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indifferent_o use_v through_o not_o every_o shire_n or_o province_n or_o realm_n but_o through_o every_o city_n or_o town_n and_o lest_o that_o any_o man_n shall_v here_o take_v occasion_n to_o conclude_v that_o than_o it_o be_v lawful_a for_o one_o man_n to_o be_v bishop_n or_o pastor_n of_o a_o whole_a city_n such_o as_o london_n or_o york_n etc_n etc_n s._n luke_n in_o the_o act_n do_v declare_v the_o meaning_n of_o this_o place_n where_o 23._o he_o say_v that_o they_o appoint_v elder_n throughout_o every_o congregation_n so_o that_o if_o the_o city_n or_o town_n be_v great_a and_o the_o professor_n of_o the_o gospel_n in_o it_o be_v more_o than_o will_v make_v convenient_o a_o congregation_n then_o there_o must_v be_v by_o the_o rule_n of_o god_n more_o pastor_n and_o bishop_n whereupon_o it_o appear_v that_o both_o no_o pastor_n or_o bishop_n ought_v to_o be_v make_v without_o there_o be_v a_o flock_n as_o it_o be_v a_o void_a place_n for_o he_o and_o that_o a_o flock_n be_v not_o 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dare_v so_o bold_o pronounce_v that_o there_o can_v be_v show_v no_o text_n of_o scripture_n for_o the_o matter_n but_o you_o ask_v what_o place_n paul_n &_o barnabas_n have_v appoint_v they_o what_o mean_v you_o thereby_o to_o conclude_v that_o because_o paul_n &_o barnabas_n the_o apostle_n have_v no_o place_n appoint_v they_o therefore_o a_o pastor_n or_o bishop_n shall_v not_o when_o this_o be_v one_o difference_n between_o the_o apostle_n and_o bishop_n that_o the_o one_o have_v no_o certain_a place_n appoint_v and_o the_o other_o have_v but_o i_o think_v i_o smell_v out_o your_o mean_v which_o be_v that_z we_o may_v make_v apostle_n also_o at_o these_o day_n and_o that_o that_o function_n be_v not_o yet_o cease_v for_o otherwise_o your_o reason_n be_v nothing_o worth_a likewise_o also_o you_o ask_v of_o philip_n which_o be_v a_o evangelist_n and_o so_o you_o think_v y_fw-mi these_o run_a minister_n be_v lawful_a because_o they_o be_v apostle_n and_o evangelist_n against_o which_o i_o shall_v have_v occasion_n to_o speak_v short_o after_o in_o the._n 50._o page_n but_o if_o a_o man_n be_v able_a to_o live_v of_o himself_o and_o mind_n not_o to_o be_v burdensome_a to_o the_o church_n it_o seem_v unreasonable_a unto_o you_o that_z he_o may_v not_o go_v about_o and_o preach_v throughout_o all_o church_n do_v you_o never_o read_v any_o learned_a disputation_n and_o that_o of_o learned_a writer_n in_o our_o day_n about_o this_o question_n whether_o although_o it_o be_v lawful_a it_o be_v expedient_a himself_o that_o a_o man_n be_v able_a and_o willing_a to_o live_v of_o himself_o aught_o to_o take_v wage_n of_o the_o church_n for_o inconvenience_n which_o may_v ensue_v of_o take_v nothing_o i_o do_v but_o ask_v you_o the_o question_n because_o you_o make_v so_o great_a a_o wonder_n at_o this_o for_o i_o will_v not_o take_v upon_o i_o here_o the_o defence_n of_o it_o because_o i_o will_v not_o multiply_v question_n and_o why_o i_o may_v you_o may_v not_o that_o man_n that_o be_v so_o able_a and_o will_v be_v content_a to_o live_v of_o himself_o why_o i_o say_v may_v not_o he_o teach_v and_o be_v the_o pastor_n of_o some_o church_n do_v you_o think_v that_o for_o his_o forbear_v the_o wage_n of_o the_o church_n he_o may_v break_v the_o law_n and_o order_n that_o god_n have_v establish_v for_o the_o rest_n contain_v in_o those_o page_n touch_v the_o ordain_v of_o minister_n or_o bishop_n i_o have_v before_o speak_v at_o large_a to_o the._n 49._o page_n oecumenius_n and_o chrysostom_n say_v that_o by_o elder_n he_o mean_v bishop_n not_o thereby_o to_o sever_v those_o that_o have_v the_o government_n of_o the_o church_n together_o with_o the_o pastor_n &_o minister_n of_o the_o word_n which_o be_v call_v ancient_n as_o you_o seem_v to_o mean_v but_o to_o put_v distinction_n between_o those_o which_o be_v elder_n by_o age_n &_o elder_n by_o office_n beside_o y_fw-es it_o be_v before_o allege_v a'n_z it_o may_v be_v you_o the_o pastor_n or_o bishop_n 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righteousness_n of_o the_o righteous_a from_o they_o an_o other_o reason_n he_o have_v which_o be_v that_z the_o dignity_n of_o the_o sacrament_n do_v not_o depend_v upon_o the_o man_n whether_o he_o be_v minister_v or_o no_o minister_n good_a or_o evil_n in_o deed_n upon_o this_o point_n whether_o he_o be_v a_o good_a or_o a_o evil_a minister_n it_o depend_v not_o but_o on_o this_o point_n whether_o he_o be_v a_o minister_n or_o no_o depend_v not_o only_o the_o dignity_n but_o also_o the_o be_v of_o the_o sacrament_n so_o that_o i_o take_v the_o baptism_n of_o woman_n to_o be_v no_o more_o the_o holy_a sacrament_n of_o baptism_n then_z i_o take_v any_o other_o daily_o or_o ordinary_a wash_n of_o the_o child_n neither_o let_v any_o man_n think_v that_o i_o have_v at_o unwares_o slip_v into_o this_o asseveration_n or_o that_o i_o have_v forget_v that_o soon_o after_o the_o time_n of_o the_o apostle_n it_o be_v the_o use_n of_o certain_a church_n that_o deacon_n shall_v baptise_v in_o 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as_o the_o substance_n of_o the_o sacrament_n depend_v chief_o of_o the_o institution_n and_o word_n of_o god_n which_o be_v the_o form_n and_o as_o it_o be_v the_o life_n of_o the_o sacrament_n of_o which_o institution_n this_o be_v one_o and_o of_o the_o chief_a part_n that_o it_o shall_v be_v celebrate_v by_o a_o minister_n for_o although_o part_n of_o the_o institution_n in_o that_o the_o name_n of_o the_o holy_a trinity_n be_v call_v upon_o be_v observe_v yet_o if_o the_o whole_a institution_n be_v not_o it_o be_v no_o more_o a_o sacrament_n then_o the_o papist_n communion_n be_v which_o celebrate_v in_o one_o kind_n take_v a_o part_n of_o the_o institution_n and_o leave_v the_o other_o and_o for_o so_o much_o as_o s._n paul_n say_v 15._o that_o a_o man_n can_v not_o preach_v which_o be_v not_o send_v no_o not_o although_o he_o speak_v the_o word_n of_o the_o scripture_n and_o interpret_v they_o so_o i_o can_v not_o see_v how_o a_o man_n can_v baptise_v unless_o that_o he_o be_v 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to_o say_v the_o baptism_n which_o be_v minister_v by_o woman_n be_v good_a and_o effectual_a and_o a_o other_o thing_n to_o say_v that_o it_o be_v lawful_a for_o woman_n to_o minister_v baptism_n for_o there_o be_v no_o man_n doubt_v but_o that_o the_o baptism_n which_o be_v minister_v by_o a_o heretical_a minister_n be_v effectual_a and_o yet_o i_o think_v that_o m._n doctor_n will_v not_o say_v that_z therefore_o a_o heretical_a minister_n may_v baptise_v and_o that_o it_o be_v lawful_a for_o heretic_n to_o baptise_v in_o the_o church_n and_o therefore_o man_n must_v not_o only_o take_v heed_n as_o m._n doctor_n say_v that_o they_o usurp_v not_o that_o which_o they_o be_v not_o call_v unto_o but_o they_o must_v also_o take_v heed_n that_o they_o receive_v not_o function_n and_o charge_n upon_o they_o whereof_o they_o be_v not_o capable_a although_o they_o be_v thereunto_o call_v in_o the_o 153._o page_n m._n bucers_n censure_n upon_o the_o communion_n book_n be_v cite_v for_o the_o allowance_n of_o that_o it_o have_v touch_v private_a baptism_n and_o consequent_o of_o the_o baptism_n by_o woman_n it_o may_v be_v that_z as_o m._n bucer_n although_o otherwise_o very_o learned_a have_v other_o gross_a absurdity_n so_o he_o may_v have_v that_o but_o it_o have_v be_v for_o the_o credit_n of_o your_o cause_n if_o you_o have_v show_v that_o out_o of_o those_o write_n which_o be_v publish_v and_o know_v to_o be_v his_o and_o not_o out_o of_o those_o whereof_o man_n may_v doubt_v whether_o ever_o he_o write_v any_o such_o or_o no_o and_o if_o he_o write_v whether_o they_o be_v corrupt_v by_o those_o into_o who_o hand_n they_o come_v and_o if_o you_o will_v take_v any_o advantage_n of_o m._n bucers_n testimony_n consider_v y_fw-es a_o witness_n be_v a_o public_a person_n you_o shall_v have_v bring_v he_o out_o of_o your_o study_n into_o the_o stationer_n shop_n where_o he_o may_v have_v be_v common_a to_o other_o as_o well_o as_o to_o you_o where_o by_o his_o stile_n and_o manner_n of_o write_v as_o it_o be_v by_o his_o gesture_n &_o countenance_n &_o by_o those_o thing_n that_o go_v before_o and_o come_v after_o as_z it_o be_v by_o his_o head_n &_o his_o foot_n we_o may_v the_o better_a know_v whether_o it_o be_v the_o true_a bucer_n or_o no._n for_o although_o i_o will_v not_o say_v but_o that_o this_o may_v be_v bucer_n do_v yet_o it_o seem_v very_o strange_a that_o bucer_n shall_v not_o only_o contrary_a to_o the_o learned_a writer_n now_o but_o also_o contrary_a to_o all_o learned_a antiquity_n and_o contrary_a to_o the_o practice_n of_o the_o church_n while_o there_o be_v any_o tolerable_a estate_n allow_z of_o woman_n baptise_n ●irginive_v tertullian_n say_v it_o be_v not_o permit_v unto_o a_o woman_n to_o speak_v in_o the_o church_n nor_o to_o teach_v nor_o to_o baptise_v nor_o to_o do_v any_o work_n of_o a_o man_n much_o less_o of_o a_o minister_n bapt._n and_o in_o a_o other_o place_n although_o he_o do_v permit_v it_o to_o be_v do_v of_o lay_a man_n in_o the_o time_n of_o necessity_n as_o it_o be_v term_v yet_o he_o give_v not_o that_o licence_n to_o the_o woman_n herese_n epiphanius_n upbraid_v marcian_n that_o he_o suffer_v woman_n to_o baptise_v and._n priscil_n in_o a_o other_o book_n he_o deride_v they_o that_o they_o make_v woman_n bishop_n and._n 3._o in_o a_o other_o book_n he_o say_v it_o be_v not_o grant_v onto_o the_o holy_a mother_n of_o christ_n to_o baptise_v her_o son_n ca._n augustin_n although_o he_o be_v of_o that_o mind_n that_o child_n can_v not_o be_v save_v without_o baptism_n yet_o in_o the_o time_n of_o necessity_n as_o it_o be_v call_v he_o do_v not_o allow_v either_o of_o baptism_n in_o private_a house_n or_o by_o woman_n but_o when_o there_o be_v danger_n the_o woman_n haste_v to_o carry_v the_o child_n unto_o the_o church_n and_o although_o cap._n he_o do_v seem_v to_o allow_v of_o the_o baptism_n of_o a_o lay_v man_n in_o the_o time_n of_o necessity_n yet_o there_o also_o he_o mention_v not_o woman_n baptism_n and_o further_o he_o doubt_v whether_o the_o child_n shall_v be_v baptize_v again_o which_o be_v baptize_v by_o a_o lay_n man_n 100_o and_o in_o the_o fourth_z council_n of_o carthage_n it_o be_v simple_o without_o exception_n decree_v y_fw-es a_o woman_n ought_v not_o to_o baptise_v the_o author_n of_o the_o admonition_n object_v that_o necessity_n of_o salvation_n be_v tie_v to_o the_o sacrament_n by_o this_o mean_v and_o that_o man_n be_v confirm_v in_o that_o old_a error_n that_o no_o man_n can_v be_v save_v with_o out_o baptism_n which_o in_o deed_n be_v true_a for_o must_v it_o not_o be_v think_v to_o be_v do_v of_o necessity_n and_o upon_o great_a