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A66481 The judgment of the foreign reformed churches concerning the rites and offices of the Church of England shewing there is no necessity of alterations : in a letter to a member of the House of Commons. Willes, John, 1646 or 7-1700. 1690 (1690) Wing W2807; ESTC R8187 45,548 70

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the_o judgement_n of_o the_o foreign_a reform_a church_n concern_v the_o rite_n and_o office_n of_o the_o church_n of_o england_n show_v there_o be_v no_o necessity_n of_o alteration_n in_o a_o letter_n to_o a_o member_n of_o the_o house_n of_o commons_o archbishop_n bramhill's_n work_v p._n 494._o all_o protestant_n both_o lutheran_n and_o calvinist_n do_v give_v unto_o the_o english_a church_n the_o right_a hand_n of_o fellowship_n casaubon_n prayer_n a._n d._n 1610._o thou_o o_o lord_n jesus_n preserve_v the_o church_n of_o england_n and_o give_v a_o sound_a mind_n to_o the_o nonconformist_n who_o deride_v its_o rite_n and_o ceremony_n london_n print_v for_o robert_n jenkinson_n a._n d._n 1690._o to_o the_o honour_a a._n a._n a_o member_n of_o the_o honourable_a house_n of_o commons_z sir_n when_o we_o part_v at_o the_o election_n you_o desire_v i_o to_o give_v you_o the_o judgement_n of_o the_o foreign_a protestant_n about_o the_o church_n of_o england_n and_o particular_o as_o to_o the_o rite_n and_o office_n of_o which_o the_o author_n of_o the_o letter_n to_o the_o convocation_n tell_v we_o p._n 23._o that_o if_o the_o convocation_n do_v not_o alter_v they_o most_o certain_o the_o parliament_n will_n the_o very_a talk_n of_o change_n you_o know_v breed_v a_o ferment_n in_o the_o nation_n and_o be_v sure_a the_o discontent_a will_v make_v their_o advantage_n of_o it_o but_o if_o the_o nation_n find_v the_o parliament_n as_o steady_a as_o the_o convocation_n the_o heat_n will_v soon_o be_v over_o and_o the_o kingdom_n return_v to_o her_o settlement_n and_o peace_n nolumus_fw-la leges_fw-la angliae_fw-la mutare_fw-la be_v a_o answer_n first_o in_o parliament_n and_o that_o in_o opposition_n to_o some_o ecclesiastic_n who_o will_v have_v introduce_v several_a foreign_a rite_n and_o custom_n into_o the_o room_n of_o receive_a and_o approve_a constitution_n quae_fw-la huc_fw-la usque_fw-la usitatae_fw-la sunt_fw-la ac_fw-la approbatae_fw-la optatus_n milev_n l._n 3._o p._n 75._o tell_v we_o of_o his_o time_n that_o there_o have_v be_v a_o report_n spread_v by_o some_o that_o come_v from_o the_o emperor_n that_o alteration_n shall_v be_v make_v in_o the_o liturgy_n which_o startle_v the_o people_n but_o when_o they_o see_v their_o solemn_a custom_n and_o wont_a rite_n observe_v and_o that_o nothing_o be_v change_v add_v or_o diminish_v in_o their_o divine_a service_n they_o be_v quiet_v again_o those_o government_n have_v be_v observe_v to_o continue_v long_a that_o have_v be_v most_o steady_a in_o their_o law_n and_o the_o jew_n who_o be_v immediate_o govern_v by_o god_n have_v their_o very_a rite_n and_o ceremony_n unaltered_a for_o almost_o 2000_o year_n their_o great_a lawgiver_n foresee_v that_o every_o considerable_a alteration_n in_o a_o establish_a religion_n or_o even_o its_o rite_n and_o mode_n will_v put_v the_o state_n into_o convulsion_n and_o endanger_v a_o revolution_n as_o to_o our_o present_a conjuncture_n it_o be_v a_o 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the_o dissenter_n from_o the_o church_n of_o england_n constant_o appeal_v to_o the_o foreign_a protestant_a church_n as_o person_n of_o their_o opinion_n p._n 2._o 2._o some_o inconsiderate_a or_o design_v person_n of_o the_o church_n of_o england_n have_v join_v with_o they_o in_o this_o appeal_n and_o complaint_n p._n 3_o 4_o 5._o 3._o this_o opinion_n confute_v in_o general_n p._n 6_o 7._o 4._o the_o opinion_n of_o beza_n spanheim_n diodate_v casaubon_n bochart_n dumoulin_n etc._n etc._n concern_v the_o church_n of_o england_n establish_v p._n 8_o 9_o 10_o 11_o 12._o 5._o the_o opinion_n that_o the_o foreign_a reform_a divine_n have_v of_o our_o dissenter_n particular_o the_o opinion_n of_o calvin_n beza_n gualther_n casaubon_n bochart_n capellus_n etc._n etc._n p._n 12_o 13_o 14._o 6._o these_o general_a opinion_n apply_v to_o the_o matter_n propose_v to_o be_v alter_v by_o the_o author_n of_o the_o letter_n to_o the_o convocation_n and_o in_o behalf_n of_o the_o bill_n of_o 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a_o great_a example_n before_o we_o in_o the_o prince_n of_o denmark_n and_o last_o for_o the_o church_n of_o scotland_n not_o to_o mention_v the_o several_a synod_n and_o act_n of_o parliament_n by_o which_o bishop_n set_v form_n of_o prayer_n etc._n etc._n have_v be_v establish_v among_o they_o and_o the_o same_o rite_n as_o be_v in_o the_o church_n of_o england_n not_o to_o mention_v the_o great_a number_n among_o they_o that_o at_o this_o time_n be_v vigorous_a asserter_n of_o episcopacy_n let_v king_n james_n the_o first_o speak_v for_o all_o in_o his_o speech_n deliver_v in_o the_o star-chamber_n an._n dom._n 1616._o i_o say_v in_o my_o conscience_n that_o the_o church_n of_o england_n of_o any_o church_n that_o ever_o i_o read_v or_o know_v of_o present_a or_o past_a be_v most_o pure_a and_o near_o the_o primitive_a and_o apostolic_a church_n in_o doctrine_n and_o discipline_n and_o be_v surely_o found_v upon_o the_o word_n of_o god_n of_o any_o church_n in_o christendom_n and_o 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will_n of_o her_o majesty_n and_o the_o bishop_n and_o in_o another_o epistle_n to_o archbishop_n grindon_n a._n d._n 1566._o speak_v of_o the_o same_o person_n it_o be_v in_o vain_a for_o they_o to_o pretend_v weakness_n in_o a_o kingdom_n where_o the_o gospel_n have_v be_v preach_v so_o many_o year_n and_o be_v confirm_v with_o the_o blood_n of_o so_o many_o martyr_n gualterus_n in_o his_o epistle_n dedicatory_a of_o his_o homily_n upon_o the_o one_a epistle_n to_o the_o corinthian_n call_v those_o morose_n and_o ignorant_a who_o for_o thing_n indifferent_a trouble_n the_o peace_n of_o the_o church_n of_o england_n and_o separate_v from_o her_o communion_n who_o whilst_o they_o endeavour_v to_o reduce_v the_o church_n of_o england_n to_o that_o model_n and_o form_n which_o they_o have_v fancy_v disturb_v her_o peace_n which_o we_o hearty_o rejoice_v to_o see_v restore_v among_o you_o to_o which_o i_o will_v add_v his_o word_n in_o his_o letter_n to_o the_o bishop_n of_o ely_n a._n 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our_o establishment_n in_o order_n to_o a_o union_n and_o compliance_n with_o the_o foreign_a reform_a church_n it_o be_v hard_a to_o meet_v with_o any_o one_o considerable_a protestant_a writer_n that_o speak_v ill_a of_o the_o church_n of_o england_n beside_o the_o dissenter_n that_o live_v among_o we_o and_o some_o few_o that_o have_v be_v prejudice_v by_o they_o and_o shall_v we_o compare_v the_o eulogy_n and_o praise_n that_o these_o foreign_a divine_n give_v the_o church_n of_o england_n with_o the_o opprobrious_a language_n it_o general_o receive_v from_o our_o own_o own_o dissenter_n we_o must_v conclude_v that_o they_o and_o the_o foreign_a divine_n be_v not_o of_o the_o same_o judgement_n i_o will_v mention_v only_o the_o divine_n of_o the_o savoy_n conference_n p._n 3._o where_o we_o have_v their_o synodical_a judgement_n in_o these_o word_n we_o take_v the_o common-prayer_n to_o be_v a_o defective_a disorderly_a and_o inconvenient_a mode_n of_o worship_n it_o will_v be_v a_o sin_n to_o use_v it_o etc._n etc._n how_o different_a be_v their_o language_n from_o that_o of_o the_o foreign_a divine_n but_o lest_o it_o be_v object_v that_o these_o be_v only_o general_a expression_n i_o have_v mention_v and_o that_o notwithstanding_o all_o this_o the_o foreign_a church_n will_v be_v glad_a to_o have_v these_o alteration_n make_v which_o have_v be_v propose_v i_o will_v next_o consider_v most_o of_o the_o thing_n that_o have_v be_v insist_v on_o to_o be_v change_v and_o see_v whether_o the_o foreign_a reform_a church_n will_v be_v better_o please_v with_o they_o as_o they_o now_o be_v or_o as_o those_o that_o delight_n in_o change_n will_v have_v they_o and_o because_o the_o calendar_n be_v the_o first_o thing_n insist_v on_o to_o be_v alter_v we_o will_v begin_v with_o that_o and_o first_o the_o read_n of_o apocryphal_a chapter_n in_o the_o church_n and_o especial_o
to_o the_o begin_n of_o the_o reformation_n and_o they_o general_o all_o of_o they_o use_v the_o cross_n in_o baptism_n for_o 1500_o year_n and_o its_o strange_a that_o all_o the_o christian_a church_n for_o so_o many_o year_n shall_v be_v guilty_a of_o so_o dangerous_a a_o evil_a as_o the_o sign_n of_o the_o cross_n in_o baptism_n nor_o do_v i_o know_v of_o any_o one_o church_n in_o the_o world_n that_o condemn_v or_o so_o much_o as_o show_v their_o dislike_n of_o it_o for_o 1500_o year_n and_o for_o the_o present_a age_n it_o be_v still_o retain_v in_o all_o the_o church_n of_o the_o roman_a communion_n in_o all_o the_o greek_a church_n rycant_fw-la p._n 168._o in_o the_o church_n of_o the_o jacobite_n brerewood_n enq._n p._n 153._o in_o the_o church_n of_o egypt_n pagitt_n chistianogr_n p._n 104._o in_o the_o abissine_n or_o aethiopian_a church_n ludolfi_n hist_o aethiop_n l._n 3._o c._n 6._o in_o the_o church_n of_o the_o muscovite_n joh._n faber_n de_fw-fr relig_n muscov_n in_o the_o protestant_a church_n of_o the_o ausburg_n confession_n the_o sign_n of_o the_o cross_n be_v general_o use_v in_o baptism_n and_o for_o the_o other_o reform_a church_n not_o one_o have_v declare_v themselves_o offend_v with_o we_o for_o use_v it_o but_o several_a eminent_a among_o they_o have_v declare_v for_o it_o bucer_n declare_v it_o a_o ancient_a and_o innocent_a rite_n and_o that_o it_o may_v be_v decent_o and_o profitable_o use_v the_o learned_a casaubon_n in_o his_o answer_n to_o baronius_n exerc._n 13._o sect._n 33._o commend_n our_o holy_a and_o prudent_a bishop_n who_o have_v retain_v this_o use_n of_o the_o cross_n among_o we_o peter_n martyr_v declare_v it_o lawful_a to_o profess_v ourselves_o christian_n by_o the_o sign_n of_o the_o cross_n beza_n himself_o speak_v favourable_o of_o it_o in_o his_o book_n adversus_fw-la baldvinum_fw-la and_o goulartius_n of_o geneva_n declare_v it_o to_o be_v a_o ceremony_n indifferent_a apology_n for_o protestant_n by_o a_o french_a divine_a p._n 87._o touch_v the_o sign_n of_o the_o cross_n which_o the_o church_n of_o england_n retain_v to_o understand_v it_o as_o they_o do_v as_o a_o visible_a mark_n that_o the_o infant_n baptise_a be_v enroll_v as_o christ_n soldier_n shall_v not_o be_v ashamed_a to_o confess_v the_o faith_n of_o christ_n crucify_a and_o fight_v under_o his_o banner_n i_o see_v no_o ground_n at_o all_o of_o exception_n against_o this_o ceremony_n and_o william_n durel_n in_o his_o sermon_n on_o 1_o cor._n 11._o 16._o have_v among_o other_o thing_n give_v the_o reform_a of_o france_n a_o account_n of_o our_o use_v the_o sign_n of_o the_o cross_n he_o by_o several_a letter_n from_o de_fw-fr l'_fw-mi angle_n bochart_n daille_n and_o other_o eminent_a divine_n of_o the_o french_a church_n receive_v its_o due_a praise_n and_o approbation_n and_o now_o god_n providence_n have_v settle_v so_o many_o thousand_o of_o they_o among_o we_o they_o ready_o and_o willing_o make_v use_n of_o it_o and_o approve_v it_o second_o for_o godfather_n i_o find_v ●hem_fw-mi not_o only_o require_v in_o all_o the_o eastern_a and_o western_a church_n but_o more_o particular_o zuinglus_fw-la in_o his_o book_n de_fw-fr bapt._n be_v much_o for_o the_o use_n of_o they_o and_o say_v that_o the_o clamour_n raise_v against_o they_o be_v only_o by_o the_o anabaptist_n calvin_n in_o the_o form_n of_o baptism_n compose_v for_o geneva_n and_o which_o be_v still_o use_v there_o require_v godfather_n at_o baptism_n and_o they_o promise_v for_o the_o child_n christian_a education_n as_o in_o the_o church_n of_o england_n and_o in_o a_o epistle_n to_o farell_n he_o have_v these_o word_n we_o require_v of_o the_o godfather_n that_o they_o promise_v to_o see_v the_o child_n when_o grow_v up_o instruct_v in_o the_o faith_n they_o be_v baptise_a in_o if_o there_o be_v no_o godfather_n it_o be_v certain_a the_o baptism_n be_v profane_v beza_n in_o his_o epistle_n frequent_o declare_v for_o the_o use_n and_o necessity_n of_o they_o and_o particular_o in_o ep._n 24._o reckon_v they_o among_o the_o constitution_n of_o the_o church_n that_o bound_v the_o conscience_n and_o epist_n 8._o to_o the_o bishop_n of_o london_n that_o infant_n be_v baptise_a in_o the_o public_a congregation_n with_o a_o set_a form_n of_o prayer_n that_o there_o be_v godfather_n to_o engage_v fortheir_o christian_n education_n etc._n etc._n these_o be_v plain_a and_o honest_a rite_n such_o as_o give_v no_o occasion_n to_o superstition_n and_o who_o be_v there_o that_o dare_v condemn_v they_o in_o the_o law_n of_o the_o church_n of_o geneva_n sect._n 38._o the_o name_n of_o the_o infant_n and_o godfather_n must_v be_v register_v by_o the_o minister_n this_o be_v heretofore_o enjojn_v by_o the_o archbishop_n of_o canterbury_n in_o his_o diocese_n and_o i_o have_v see_v some_o register_n in_o that_o diocese_n whereby_o it_o appear_v that_o injunction_n be_v observe_v for_o some_o time_n sect._n 39_o none_o be_v to_o be_v godfather_n but_o the_o faithful_a and_o those_o of_o our_o confession_n sect._n 40._o they_o that_o be_v suspend_v from_o the_o lord_n supper_n must_v not_o be_v godfather_n in_o the_o discipline_n of_o the_o reform_a church_n of_o france_n chap._n 11._o sect._n 7._o though_o we_o have_v no_o express_a commandment_n of_o the_o lord_n for_o godfather_n and_o godmother_n in_o baptism_n yet_o because_o the_o custom_n be_v ancient_a and_o introduce_v for_o a_o good_a end_n those_o that_o will_v not_o follow_v so_o good_a a_o example_n but_o present_v their_o infant_n themselves_o shall_v be_v earnest_o exhort_v not_o to_o be_v contentious_a but_o to_o behave_v themselves_o according_a to_o this_o ancient_a custom_n which_o be_v good_a and_o profitable_a sect._n 12_o the_o minister_n shall_v diligent_o admonish_v the_o godfather_n and_o godmother_n to_o consider_v the_o promise_n they_o have_v make_v at_o the_o celebration_n of_o baptism_n etc._n etc._n and_o to_o this_o agree_v the_o synod_n of_o st._n foy_n a._n d._n 1578._o at_o samue_n 1596._o at_o montpellier_n 1598._o which_o last_n say_v that_o godfather_n be_v oblige_v not_o only_o to_o instruct_v the_o child_n in_o piety_n but_o also_o in_o case_n of_o necessity_n to_o provide_v for_o their_o maintenance_n sect._n 18_o the_o name_n of_o the_o godfather_n and_o godmother_n of_o the_o infant_n shall_v be_v register_v which_o last_o thing_n of_o register_n they_o as_o it_o be_v general_o practise_v by_o the_o reform_a church_n abroad_o so_o be_v very_o agreeable_a to_o the_o practice_n of_o the_o primitive_a church_n and_o particular_o take_v notice_n of_o by_o pseudo_fw-la dionysius_n the_o areopagite_n to_o all_o which_o i_o beg_v leave_n to_o add_v the_o observation_n of_o monsieur_n larroque_n a_o eminent_a minister_n of_o the_o french_a reform_a church_n in_o his_o book_n entitle_v conformite_n de_fw-fr la_fw-fr discipline_n ecclesiastic_a des_fw-fr protestant_n de_fw-fr france_n avec_fw-fr celle_fw-fr des_fw-fr anciens_fw-fr chietiens_n a._n d._n 1678_o and_o p._n 208._o he_o thus_o write_v l'usage_n des_fw-fr parriens_fw-la etc._n etc._n i._n e._n the_o use_n of_o godfather_n and_o godmother_n to_o present_a child_n in_o baptism_n be_v very_o ancient_a tertullian_n make_v mention_n of_o they_o in_o his_o book_n of_o baptism_n chap._n 18._o st._n austin_n in_o his_o 23d_o epistle_n the_o pretend_a deny_v the_o areopagite_n who_o tell_v we_o that_o they_o be_v of_o apostolic_a institution_n gregory_n the_o one_a in_o his_o book_n of_o the_o sacrament_n caesarius_n of_o arles_n in_o his_o 12_o homily_n the_o sixthcanon_n of_o the_o council_n of_o mets._n a._n d._n 888._o and_o indeed_o the_o subject_n of_o that_o whole_a book_n be_v to_o justify_v their_o discipline_n from_o the_o antiquity_n of_o it_o and_o agreement_n with_o the_o primitive_a church_n i_o therefore_o mention_v this_o because_o argument_n of_o this_o nature_n be_v so_o very_a much_o slight_v by_o our_o own_o dissenter_n this_o author_n in_o the_o title_n page_n of_o his_o book_n prefix_v this_o sentence_n from_o the_o law_n of_o theodosius_n statuimus_fw-la observari_fw-la quod_fw-la prisca_fw-la apostolica_fw-la disciplina_fw-la &_o canon_n veteres_fw-la eloquuntur_fw-la i._n e._n we_o command_v that_o those_o thing_n be_v observe_v which_o the_o apostolic_a church_n and_o old_a canon_n declare_v for_o and_o appoint_v which_o i_o think_v be_v more_o full_o explain_v by_o st._n austin_n epist_n 118._o ad_fw-la casulan_n in_o iis_fw-la rebus_fw-la de_fw-la quibus_fw-la nihil_fw-la statuit_fw-la scriptura_fw-la mos_fw-la populi_fw-la dei_fw-la &_o instituta_fw-la majorum_fw-la pro_fw-la lege_fw-la dei_fw-la tenenda_fw-la sunt_fw-la i._n e._n in_o such_o thing_n as_o the_o scripture_n have_v not_o determine_v the_o custom_n of_o the_o christian_a church_n and_o the_o constitution_n of_o our_o ancestor_n shall_v be_v observe_v as_o the_o law_n of_o god_n to_o return_v godfather_n be_v also_o use_v in_o the_o dutch_a rohemian_a and_o all_o the_o