things Hence the ancient Fathers inuented the word Trinity to signify the plurality of persons in one substance Homousios to expresse the consubstantiality of the Sonne with the Father Theotokos to maintaine the personall vnion of both natures in Christ and six hundred such like words vtterly vnknown vnto former ages Ibid. old matters as the same Athanasius saith Cap. 18. receiuing new names those new names couching vnder them no new meaning According whereunto Vincentius Lirinensis though he would not haue his Timothie to broach new things yet giueth him leaue to teach the same things he hath learned after a new manner Being therfore warrāted both by the precept practice of the Primitiue Church I see no cause but that euen in this point also I may be permitted to vse new tearmes Perhaps you will say that not only the tearme wherewith it is inuested but the matter hereof is also new for so much your questions out of Hierome and Tertullian and the floud of words following with not a drop of reason in them seeme to import Whereunto though I haue already sufficiently answered yet now I adde by way of surplus that many Truths lye a long time hidden in their principles and vnheeded of the wisest which being at length disclosed and brought to light are not therefore new in themselues but onely vnto vs comming newly vnto our knowledge euen as the countrey of America is called the new world not because it is of a latter creation then Europe Asia or Africa but only because it is of a later discouery These Conclusions vntill their dependency and coherence with the principles doe manifestly appeare vnto vs it sufficeth to beleeue them implicitly and in the preparation of the Minde but when they shall bee vnfolded out of their principles and clearly demonstrated vnto vs by necessary deduction from them we are bound to yeeld distinct and expresse assent vnto them And then as it would haue been great folly in the Spaniard to haue refused the gold and treasures of the new world because it was found out not by the old Argonauts but by Christopher Columbus a late sailer so would it bee great sinne in vs to disclaime and renounce the benefit of a truth because it is made known vnto vs not by an ancient Father but by a man of yesterday or to day Iam. 2.1 For this were to haue the faith of God in respect of persons as S. Iames saith and to restraine the gift of the Spirit of Wisdome and reuelation vnto the times of our predecessors as if they only had eyes giuen them to spie out truths and it were impossible for vs to see what they saw not although wee caried the Sunne in our hands as Lactantius speaketh Now then to apply this vnto the matter in hand if the point you quarell at bee not onely new vnto the present custome De Ciuit. Dei lib. 22. c. 7. as S. Augustin speaketh but also contrary vnto reason and the grounds of Faith I confesse it is erronious and iustly may you come vpon mee with your demaunds out of Hierome and Tertullian Ep. 23. ad Paulin. De veland virg cap. 1. who are you whence when that after 400. yeeres you should goe about to teach vs what wee knew not before But if it bee new only vnto vs and not in it selfe then doe I answer your Hierome with Hierome Weigh not truth by time and Tertullian with Tertullian Nor space of times nor patronage of persons nor priuiledge of places may prescribe against truth For that which is no otherwise new is true and as the truth of God is with all reuerence and submission to bee embraced Howbeit this I say not as if I would be thought to bee the first discouerer hereof or that it had laine hid as it were in the pit of Democritus vntill this time For that there is a Faith whose obiect is the Person of the Mediator was neuer yet vnknowne in the Church but hath euer beene manifest euen from the beginning Search the Scriptures and you shall find therein nothing more cleere then this For as in the treatise sent you I haue shewed the whole tenor of them runs thus Hee that beleeueth in mee shall not perish Ioh. 3.16 Ioh. 14.1 Ioh. 1.12 yee beleeue in God beleeue also in mee As many as receiued him to them hee gaue power to bee the Sonnes of God that is to them that beleeue in him c. Rom. 3.22.26 Gal. 2.16.3.22 Phil. 3.9 Iam. 2.1 Reu. 2.13.14.12 Whereunto I adde that in sundry places it is expresly called the Faith of Iesus Christ not because it inhereth in Christ as in a Subiect but for that it hath relation and respect vnto Christ as vnto the right Obiect And that at length it appeareth both that the matter is euery way old though the tearme bee new and that new tearmes may bee giuen to old matters euen of this kind so as they bee proper determined and adequated thereunto It remaineth onely to shew that such is the tearme which here I vse For proofe whereof I say no more but this that if our best Diuines haue conueniently distinguished other Faiths according to their obiects calling one Faith of story because Scripture story another Faith of Promise because the Euangelicall promise a third Faith of Miracles because miracles are the proper obiect of them I see no reason why I may not as freely and as fitly call that Faith of Person which hath for its Obiect the Person of Iesus Christ Neither can I conceiue if this bee an inkhorne tearme as it pleaseth your elegancy to tearme it why Faith of Story Faith of Promise Faith of Miracles should not bee inkhorne-tearmes also But you are a very nice and dainty man you can tast no wine how old or generous soeuer vnlesse the cup out of which you drinke it bee grauen by Myron or Polycletus N. B. But this hath beene the course of all fanaticall spirits in all ages moued with 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Phil 1.14 selfe-loue contention hypocrisie and couetousnesse De Haeresibus ad Quodvult Deum to condemne all others to set vp and stablish their owne fantasies Read Augustine yea see the Ecclesiasticall histories Eusebius Sozomen Euagrius Dorotheus Vincentius c. there shall you see whereupon these Schismes in the Church began Let mee therefore intreate you if you will needs deale in these graue causes 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 yet that you will deale also 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 well as becommeth a wise man For otherwise you shall bewray your mind desirous of nouelties hazard your credit offend the Church yea as hee saith take vpon you to glew an egge Diogenianus loosing your labour and making your selfe ridiculous to the best I. D. What hath beene the course of fanaticall spirits in all ages and whereupon they haue been moued to beginne their Schismes in the Church I am not now to learne
same Father is so sacrilegious as to say there are three Substances in the Trinity It is not therefore so much to bee marked whence a word is deriued as what it is vsed to signifie and if it signifie many things as Faith doth then must wee inquire in what sense it is to be taken in the present question that so wee may build our doctrines not in the aëry sound of words but in the vertue of the things signified as Basil speaketh Contra Eunom lib. 2. Againe words as Logicians teach vs haue their originations sundry wayes and among the rest from the Effects Not to seeke far for an instance The third argument in a Syllogisme whereby the Conclusion is proued is by the Grecians called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that is Faith a word as you say deriued from a verbe signifying to bee perswaded and yet I thinke your selfe will acknowledge that here it hath the name from the Effect not because it is Perswasion but for that it doth beget Perswasion Whereupon it followeth likewise that Faith in our Question flowing from the same fountaine is not necessarily to signifie Assurance but may well be called so because by it euery true beleeuer may gather and conclude vnto himselfe Assurance Lastly although the Greeke and Hebrew words whence Faith commeth signifie to bee perswaded yet they doe not only signifie so For 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 as Rabbi Kimhi saith implies Affiance and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in the middle voice imports as much whence commeth 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Confidence and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 a word growing vpon the same root that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 doth construed with the Preposition 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 signifieth to trust rest rely on Wherefore the originall words in either language being indifferently affected vnto both what reason can be rendred why faith in those languages should not as well beare the signification of Affiance as Assurance These reasons considered you see at length the weaknesse of your Achillean argument and how insufficient it is to perswade that Faith is a Perswasion Withall you may perceiue that if I would I might haue beene Philologos without any hazard vnto the definition of Faith which I maintaine and that there is no cause why either you should vpbraid mee with the odious name of Antipistos or I feare incurring infamie for any thing hitherto I haue said or written Howsoeuer sure I am my Theologie agreeth better with true Philologie then these virulent speeches with the rule of Charity or to shew by the way what a skilfull Pedant you are your preposterous deduction of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 from 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the Primitiue from the Deriuatiue with the precepts of Grammer Treatise Bee not offended if I handle 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and giue new tearmes to old matters N. B. Aristoph in Ran. Lucian in Pseudosophistâ You are no Constable neither haue you put on the Lions skinne to subdue vs to your commaund I tell you Master Downe wee are offended that you giue new tearmes to old Positions and handle them not onely 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which in this point you cannot bee permitted to doe but also 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which is vtterly intolerable I will therefore say vnto you With S. Hierom Ep. ad Pammach Ocean Cur post quadringintos annos docere nos niteris quod ante nesciuimus How cōmeth it to passe that thou after 400. yeeres space goest about to teach vs that before we knew not And so to you how dare you deale after a new manner in so waightie a thing as is Faith opposing your iudgement to the iudgement of all the Church for these 1600. yeeres In Praescript Alas saith Tertullian qui estis vos vnde quando who are you whence are you and of what continuance In Gen. hom 3. lib. 3. ad Licent But suo ipsius iudicio perijt sorex By shewing your selfe you perish as saith Origen and Augustin of others Now perceiue wee that the iudgement of the whole Church cannot content you but still you must haue one inkhorne tearme or other of your owne to shew your itching eares Would not or could not all the learned men of the world define iustifying Faith and contenting themselues with the Genus and Difference satisfie you but that you would not onely dispute pro formâ against them which might bee in a Scholler for triall of wit tolerable but also publikely preach against their iudgements and proclaime them erronious only allowing your owne for true I. D. Indeed M. Baxter it is true I am no Constable if I were I thinke I should finde it a very troublesome office to haue such a turbulent spirit within my iurisdiction as you are And as for the Lions skin as you say I haue not put it on it is you that haue ietted vp and downe along time in it to the great scarring and affrighting of simple people Aesop But because your vntimely braying and the vnlucky appearance of your eares now bewray that it growes not to your backe you must be content to bee stript of it and to walke hereafter as you are in your owne hide You are offended you say that I giue new tearmes to old positions and handle them 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 after a new manner An offence not giuen but taken and therefore little to bee regarded For the Philosopher Categ c. 7. §. 16. though he would haue the common vse of speech to bee retained in familiar conuersation yet Artists sayth he haue liberty to inuent new tearmes so as they bee proper determined and adequated to the thing signified Simplic super Praedicam qual Academ Quaest lib. 1. In regard whereof himselfe doubted not first to vse 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 for that which formerly in the Concrete was called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 neither was Cicero afraid with out former example to call that Qualitas which the Grecians tearmed 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 In a word how many tearmes are there now frequently vsed in schooles which vnto the ancients were vncouth and neuer heard of It cannot therefore bee a sufficient exception to say the tearme is new vnlesse with all you shew it is not proper enough to expresse the thing signified which here you cannot doe as by and by will appeare This I thinke you saw and thereupon very restrictiuely you say that in this point I cannot bee permitted so to doe And why I pray you not in this point as well as in others For it hath alwayes beene the custome of the Church of God euen in the highest points of Religion partly for the clearing of those parts that are obscure and darke in them partly for the preseruation of them against the innouations of heretiks to deuise new tearmes and as Athanasius speaketh In disp cum Ario coram Probo Gentili iudice things vnchangeably remayning to change the names of
source of all Rebellion and Disobedience N. B. Your Genus is that Faith iustifying is a Rest which is false when you speake more learnedly I will deigne you farther answer I. D. That Rest is not the Genus of Iustifying Faith I easily grant you for as appeares manifestly in my Treatise I make Affiance or which is all one Rest to bee the Act or Forme of Faith and not the Genus thereof If I had thought it fitting to haue troubled the Definition therewith I was not so ignorant but I could haue called it either an infused grace or a gratious habit or a Theologicall vertue but because the Philosopher taught me that Habits are sufficiently defined by their Acts in reference vnto their proper Obiects I held it needlesse to expresse it But suppose I had made it to be the right Genus how doe you disproue it Forsooth it is sufficient for such a Pythagoras as you are to say it is false an inexpiable wrong would it be to demand a reason of your sayings Onely you adde Plut. in vitâ Alex. that when I shall speake more learnedly you will deigne me farther answer Brauely againe spoken and Alexander-like for neither would hee being a King contend with any but Kings neither may you being so transcendent for your learning and surmounting the most of men as farre as the Sun doth the lesser lights without impeachment of honour vouchsafe disputation with any but your Peers much lesse with such a one as is scarce to bee found in any Predicament Yet seeing the Sunne so surpassing in glory is no way enuious of his light but imparteth bountifully of his beames to the enlightning of the rest of the starres it may please you also with whom wisdome must liue and dye Ioh. 12.2 out of your benignity to send forth some influence of your learning vpon mee that I may more cleerely discerne at least in this question betweene truth and that which is onely seeming so N. B. Shew mee for your warrant one place of Scripture that so tearmeth it any one Father of the Church old or new for these 1600. yeeres Greeks or Latins that will auouch it and I will yeeld to your Genus The Hebrew word for Faith and the Greek word whereof you haue heard before doe vtterly condemne you they both signifying a perswasion and an Assurance and neuer a Rest I maruell you will teach the Holy Ghost to speake and the Church now to vnderstand what Faith is and that by such a woodden Definition which may rather moue to choller then consent I. D. If by denying vnto mee the warrant of Scriptures of Fathers old and new Greeke and Latin for 1600. yeeres and of the Greeke and Hebrew words for Faith you intend to proue that Affiance or Rest is not the Genus of Faith it shall without more a-doo bee yeelded vnto you for as appeares in the former section I make it to bee not the Genus but the Act or Forme thereof But if you would thereby perswade that Rest or Affiance is not the Act of Faith I must tell you that these reasons are cleane out of date and that you doe too much abuse your Readers patience setting againe before him these Coleworts now more then twice sodden For both in the beginning of this disputation and in the last section saue two before this I haue throughly scanned cleered this businesse shewing that I am so farre from teaching the Holy Ghost to speake and the Church to vnderstand what Faith is as you vnchristianly lay vnto my charge that I vse no other tearme but that which the Spirit of God hath in Scripture sanctified to this purpose and the Holy Church hath euer spoken and vsed But because I am loth to pester my paper with so many Tautologies and needles repetitions as you vse to doe thither must I entreate the courteous Reader to repaire for satisfaction In the meane season seeing both by expresse testimony of Scripture and cleere euidence of reason I haue warranted euery part of my definition and yet you without disprouing the weakest of my proofes tauntingly call it a woodden Definition you must pardon mee if I tell you plainely that this wood-kinde of answering deserues to bee reformed with a little woodden correction But where you say my Definition may rather moue to choler then consent a man would thinke reading this your answer that either your principles were so incurably hurt or your braine dam'd and ram'd vp with such a deale of dull and tough flegme that it were as easy almost to remoue a mountaine as to moue you either to the one or the other And yet indeed I find you of a cleene contrary complexion euen the most pettish and waspish gentleman that euer I met withall euery small petty occasion stirs your choler and works you presently out of temper But because I see it is your impotency disease I beare with you the more praying you notwithstanding to haue as much patience as you may if at times for the purging of this humor I play the Physician and minister some small quantity of rheubarb vnto you N. B. For alas Master Downe what Rest can a man haue vpon Christ without Assurance to bee saued by his death and Passion and knowledge of his Lord and Sauiour A full assurance therefore as a cause worketh Rest vpon Christ as an effect and is therefore the Generall word in the Definition of Iustifying Faith I. D. Your argument if I mistake not standeth thus That which is an Effect of Assurance cannot be the Act of Faith But Resting vpon Christ is an Effect of Assurance Ergo it cannot bee the Act of Faith I distinguish of Assurance for it is either of the generall proposition or of the Speciall and indiuiduall of the Generall when wee are assured that Whosoeuer Belieueth on Christ shall bee iustified and saued of the Speciall when wee are certainly perswaded that We are iustified and shall bee saued If you meane the former then I deny the Maior for such Historicall Assurance is a necessary pre-requisite vnto Iustifying Faith and is the cause without which wee cannot belieue on Christ and therefore that which is such an effect of Assurance may bee the Act of Faith If you vnderstand the latter then doe I grant the Maior for if such Assurance be as I haue demonstratiuely proued it selfe the Effect of Faith it is more then manifest that That which is an effect of such Assurance cannot bee the Act of Faith But then I deny the Minor that Resting vpon Christ is an effect of such assurance affirming that contrarily Resting vpon Christ is the cause of such Assurance and Assurance is the Effect of that Resting But what rest say you can a man haue vpon Christ without Assurance to be saued by his Death Passion Surely vnlesse wee know his Death and Passion to bee the onely meanes of saluation wee cannot rest vpon him for it but to
with him But if you vnderstand Faith in the second Act and as it is in operation and action then may you iustly call it a labour for as our Sauiour saith Ioh. 6.29 to belieue in him whom the Father hath sent is a Worke which God requireth vs to doe in regard whereof the Apostle Paul calleth it the Worke of Faith 1 Thess 1.3 And because Faith iustifieth not as it is in the first but in the second act that is not as it is an Habit but as it is in action accepting and applying vnto vs Christ and his merits hence is it saith Bucer that Protestants vsually define it by a motion De iustific Let the Maior therefore in this sense bee granted vnto you The Minor which you thinke to bee so cocksure I flatly deny confidently affirming that Rest is a labour prouided you vnderstand no other Rest then that which in my Treatise I haue expressed and declared For if by Rest you meane Quiet such Rest without all question is not Labour for it is the end of labour and a cessation from it and therefore well did you say that when eternall rest is wrought then the labour of Faith ceaseth But you cannot bee ignorant that by Rest I vnderstand not Quiet but Affiance in as much as I render the Latin word Fiducia by it and make the Act thereof to bee Inniti which as I haue shewed in some of our English translations is oftentimes turned by Resting and Staying vpon And this Rest that is this Relying this Reposing this Trusting or Belieuing on Christ is not a Quiet but a motion or operation and therefore a labour True it is that whosoeuer commeth vnto Christ and setteth his whole Affiance vpon him shall thereby finde refreshment and Quiet vnto his soule yet neuerthelesse it is apparant that Affiance it selfe is an act or motion of the Will and not a Quiet euen as the inclination of a mans selfe vpon his staffe or the laying of him downe vpon his bed is an action of the body In a word remember what a little before I haue deliuered to cleare this tearme from all ambiguity and take it in the same sense which there I giue vnto it and vnlesse you will say that light is darknesse you cannot but confesse that such rest is a labour and so that notwithstanding this argument Faith may be a Rest But now giue mee leaue to take vp the weapon which you are forced to lay downe and to trie whether a blow therewith from my arme will pearce any deeper for thus I retort your owne reason against you Faith is rather a labour then a rest Assurance is not so but rather a rest then a labour Ergo Faith is not Assurance The Maior is your owne and you may not deny it The Minor I proue thus Intellection or knowledge saith Aristotle is more like vnto rest and quiet then vnto motion for although the mind while it is inquiring seeking for knowledge is euer in motion and so laboureth yet when the Habit of knowledge is once acquired and gotten then is there no farther motion of the vnderstanding thereunto but a sweet rest and Quiet therein Whereupon saith the same Philosopher By the quieting setling of the soule doth a man become intelligent and wise meaning by Quiet as Iulius Scaliger expoundeth him Exerc. in Card. 307. 13. nothing else but the assent of the minde I assume But Assurance is such intellection or knowledge for it is an habituall assent vnto this truth that wee are in the present state of grace and shall infallibly bee saued Wherefore I conclude that Assurance is rather a rest or quiet then a labour whence also it farther followeth that Faith being as you confesse rather a labour then a rest cannot be Assurance Againe Faith you say ceaseth when eternall pacification and rest is wrought I grant for the Obiect of Faith as the Apostle saith are things which are not seene whereupon Saint Augustin elegantly Heb. 11.1 Si vides non est Fides Beholding is not Belieuing As therefore while we liue here in these earthly tabernacles and are absent from the Lord wee walke not by Sight but by Faith so when wee shall be clothed vpon 2. Cor. 5.4.7 Vers 4. and mortality shall bee swallowed vp of life then shall wee walke not by Faith but by Sight Neither is the ceasing of Faith any losse or disaduantage but an exchange for the better namely vision for Seeing vnto Belieuing is as the full brightnesse of the Sunne is to the glimmering light of a candle I assume then But Assurance ceaseth not when eternall pacification and rest is wrought for then the certainty of our Election of our adoption of our acceptation into grace and finally of our Saluation is so farre from ceasing that it is by so much the more confirmed vnto vs as intuitiue apprehension and the sight of the eye is more infallible then heare-say or seeing by reflexion I conclude therefore out of your owne principles that Faith ceasing and Assurance not ceasing Faith is not Assurance But as touching Affiance or Resting vpon the mediation of Christ for iustification and Saluation it is euident that that ceaseth when wee shall haue obtained eternall rest and pacification For being perfectly quitted of our sinnes and in full possession of Saluation how can wee farther set out Affiance vpon him for it Especially seeing hee shall then cease to bee vnto vs a Mediator of Redemption and Reconciliation in regard whereof only hee is the Obiect of Affiance or Iustifying Faith and shall bee vnto vs no otherwise then he is vnto the Elect Angels a Mediatour of Conseruation to confirme preserue vs eternally in the most blessed state of glory For neither shall hee Prophecy any more vnto vs by the ministry of the Gospell nor propitiate for vs by the sacrifice of his death and Passion nor gouerne vs by the scepter of his word as here hee doth 1 Cor. 15.24 but in this respect shall hee deliuer vp the Kingdome vnto his Father and the Godhead in the holy Trinity shall without all meanes bee immediately vnto vs all in all N. B. Rest therefore in Christ is the Effect of Faith and Faith is the cause of Rest and so consequently Faith is not Rest nor Rest is not Faith I. D. If say you Faith bee the cause of Rest and Rest bee the Effect of Faith then is not Faith Rest nor Rest Faith This I yeeld you But Faith is the cause of Rest and Rest is the effect of Faith How proue you this It seemeth by the illatiue particle Therefore that you referre vs for this vnto some former premisses What then haue you formerly said That a full assurance as a cause worketh rest vpon Christ as an effect But neither is Assurance Faith and I haue sufficiently proued that Assurance is not the cause of Rest nor Rest an effect of Assurance Againe you say that Faith
man would much more will God performe his Word and Couenant although the seale be not set thereunto But if it may bee had there is Necessitas praecepti a necessity laid by Gods commandement vpon all those that are Filij praecepti the Sonnes of the commandement Those Sonnes all men are when they are grown to be Adulti and therefore if then they neglect to be baptized they deserue for their contempt to bee cut off and to bee eternally condemned But Infants while such are none of these Sonnes as being both vncapable of the precept and vnable to offer themselues vnto the Sacrament whence followeth that the commandement taketh hold onely of the Parents and those that haue the care of them So that although the Child dying vnbaptized may bee free from danger yet those that neglect to present him vnto Baptisme shall bee damned for breach of Gods commandement Leâ— Parents therefore by all meanes bee carefull to performe this duty and if by reason of weakenesse or some other impediment it cannot bee done publickely rather then left vndone let it bee done priuatly Wise men and amongst the rest M. Caluin would haue it so yea the Church of England requireth it prescribing a forme of Priuate Baptisme in case of necessity and commanding that what is priuatly done be by the Minister publickely made knowne in the Congregation An order heretofore too much neglected God grant henceforward it may be better obserued Finally and lastly seeing euery one that is Adultus must of necessity haue a Faith of his owne first it is the duty of Parents by all meanes to worke Faith in their Children when they are capable thereof that as they haue beene instruments to traduce Originall sinne vnto them to their perdition so they may againe repaire in them the image of God to their eternall saluation Secondly let euery one looke to himselfe and see that hee haue Faith for it is in vaine to trust to the Faith of another The righteousnesse of Christ indeed is a cloke large enough to couer the sinnes of all men but the Faith of another man is little enough for himselfe I cannot couer my nakednesse with it They were but foolish virgins that said Giue vs of your oile for our lamps are out and fitly were they answered by the wise virgins Wee feare there will not bee enough for vs and you but goe yee rather to them that sell and buy for your selues Let Papists blaspheme and say they can supererogate and more then satisfy for their sinnes and that one man may for a price buy out of the Popes treasury the Surplus of another mans merits yet am I sure the oile of another mans lampe will not serue my turne nor procure mee fauour to enter with the bridegroome God grant me therefore wisdome euen while it is called to day to get mee oile in my owne lampe NOT CONSENT OF FATHERS BVT SCRIPTVRE THE GROVND OF FAITH Written by the occasion of a conference had with Mr. Bayly by the late Reuerend and Learned Diuine Master Iohn Downe Bachelour of Diuinity and sometimes Fellow of Emanuell Colledge in Cambridge OXFORD Printed by IOHN LICHFIELD for EDWARD FORREST Anno Domini M.DC.XXXV NOT CONSENT OF FATHERS BVT SCRIPTVRE THE GROVND OF FAITH LOVING and Reuerend M. Bayly I acknowledge my selfe much endebted vnto you both for my kind entertainment and the peaceable Conference I had with you Would you but vouchsafe to visit my poore Cottage I should readily endeauour to satisfy some part of the debt if not with like entertainment yet with equall welcome The residue I know not how better to discharge then by pursuing my first intention that is by labouring to reduce you backe into the bosome of that Church out of which with such danger to your soule scandall to the brethren and vnkindnesse to her you haue withdrawne your selfe And to this end might I haue obtained from you in writing as at our parting I entreated what those speciall Motiues were which had wrought in you this sudden change I would haue strained my selfe by writing also to haue giuen them the best satisfaction But seeing for reasons best knowne to your selfe and into which I list not further to inquire you held it not fit as then to yeeld so farre vnto mee I haue thought good for the present to reflect vpon some passages of our Conference specially that ground whereon you then stood so much and vpon which you plainely professed that you would aduenture your Faith It may please you therefore to remember that being demaunded a reason of your departure you pretended that in reading the ancient Fathers you had met with sundry Bugbeares which so scared and affrighted you that vnlesse you would resist the light of Conscience and hazard your eternall saluation you could not chuse but bee swayed by them Whereunto it being replied that happily those Bugbeares were but Scarcrowes and that you should haue taken a safer and surer course if you had resolued your Faith into Scriptures nothing being sufficient to beare vp so weighty a peece but onely diuine testimony your answer was that vpon Scripture you relyed howbeit because it is obscure and subiect to manifold constructions vpon Scripture vnderstood according to the interpretation and doctrine of the Fathers nothing doubting but that as long as you held the Faith of them whom wee verily belieue to bee saued your selfe could neuer perish through misbeliefe In which answer howsoeuer in word you seeme to attribute some force and vertue to the Scriptures yet in truth you doe but cancell them and make them of none effect For if the Scriptures lie rather in the Sense then in the Letter and the Sense by reason of the darknesse and ambiguity of them bee not to bee found in themselues but elsewhere out of them in the writings of the Fathers it followeth clearely that in your account Paul and Peter and Iames and Iohn and the other Pen-men of holy writ are no better then Cyphers vnlesse Cyrill and Ambrose and Hierome and Augustin and the rest of that ranke as digit numbers vouchsafe to adde some value and signification vnto them So that now by your fauor this must bee my taske briefly and plainely to demonstrate that hauing remoued your Faith from the authority of Scripture vpon the exposition of the Fathers you haue built quite beside the rocke and layd your foundation vpon the sand But take this protestation first that wee neither disesteeme nor despise the Fathers as by Priests and Iesuites wee are ordinarily slandered but contrarywise with all duty wee rise vp to their gray haires and reuerence their venerable antiquity Withall wee acknowledge that they were in their times excellent ornaments and lights of the Church endued not onely with singular knowledge in the mystery of Faith but also with admirable sanctity and vprightnesse of life Whereby in all their combats and bickerins with Hereticks they maintained the truth of God so wisely and couragiously
that they euer remained more then conquerors And now as they haue left behind them a pretious name among the Saints so wee doubt not but their soules are bound vp in the bundle of life and enioy the blessed making vision of God for euermore Such books of theirs as are come to our hands we esteeme as rich treasures and value them aboue gold Them doe wee search and peruse with all diligence bee it spoken without offence no Papists more Yet can wee not throughout them meet with those terrible Bugbears you so much complain of rather wee wonder how you could misse all those good Angels so frequently appearing in them to comfirme and settle you in your first Faith For I wil bee bold to say notwithstanding all the brags and crakes of that side that the Fathers are ours not yours or if they bee yours in any thing it is in the pettiest and smallest matters for in the maine and great questions controuerted between vs they are expresly for vs and against you as hereafter God willing shall in part appeare Vpon confidence whereof whensoeuer wee were summond and called vnto the Fathers by you wee neuer refused their triall but euer haue beene ready to aduenture all vpon their verdict The chalenge of that famous Prelate Ser. at Pauls Crosse Doctor Iewell Bishop of Salisbury is yet fresh in memory that if any learned man of our aduersaries or if all the learned men that bee aliue be able to bring any one sufficient sentence out of any old Catholicke Doctor or Father or out of any old generall Councell or out of the holy Scriptures of God or any one example of the Primitiue Church whereby it may clearly and plainly be proued that there was any priuate Masse in the whole world at that time for the space of sixe hundred yeares after Christ and so foorth in seuen and twenty seuerall articles hee would bee content to yeeld and to subscribe Reply to Hardings Ans This chalenge as that renowned Bishop in his life-time made good himselfe against his aduersary Master Harding so was it neuer yet retracted by any of vs but hath stoutly beene maintained by sundry succeeding champions Heare one for all That sayth worthy Whitaker Con. Camp tat 5. which Iewell most truly and constantly vttered that day when hee appealed to the antiquity of sixe hundred yeeres and offered vnto you that if you could bring foorth but one sentence cleere and euident out of any Father or Councell he would not refuse to yeeld the victory vnto you the same doe we all professe we all promise the same we will not shrinke from our word Thus you see how wee reiect not the Fathers as you would beare the world in hand but triumph rather in the testimony they giue vs and in our Apologies and Defences alledge them plentifully against you Howbeit neither doe wee nor dare wee make Gods of them or equall them with the holy Apostles as if they were infallible and could not erre Clouen tongues neuer sate vpon them as they did vpon these neither did the Spirit of God so guide and direct their pens but that sometimes they might faile and write amisse Had they had infallibility of iudgement safely might wee build our Faith vpon them but this they vtterly disclaime acknowledging it to bee the peculiar priuiledge of the Apostles And so far are they from making themselues Masters of our Faith that they require vs to iudge and censure of their writings by the Scripture which is the rule of Faith Neither would they haue vs to tie our selues vnto their authority more then they tyed themselues vnto the authority of others but freely to accept or refuse as wee see iust cause Hom. 13. in 2. Cor. I pray and beseech you all saith Chrysostome that leauing this and that mans opinion you will search all these things out of the Scripture In Euseb hist l. 7. c. 24. Let it bee commended saith Dionysius of Alexandria and without enuy assented vnto which is rightly spoken but if any thing bee vnsoundly written let that bee looked into and corrected Epist 62. I know I my selfe saith Hierome esteeme of the Apostles in one sort and of other Writers in another that the first alwayes speake truth and the latter as men doe in some things erre De Trinit l. 3. c. 1. In all my writings saith Saint Augustin I desire not only a godly Reader but also a free corrector yet as I would haue the Reader addicted vnto mee so neither would I haue a corrector addicted to himselfe De lib. arb l. 2. c. 32. And againe I am not bound to the authority of this man meaning Cyprian but I examine his saying by the authority of Scripture and what agreeth therewith I receiue with his commendation what agreeth not by his leaue I refuse And yet againe Epist 111. ad Fortunat. Neither are wee to esteeme the disputations of any men although Catholicke and praise worthy as the Canonicall Scriptures that wee may not sauing the honour which is due to those men dislike and reiect something in their writings if happily wee find them to haue thought otherwise then the truth either by others or our selues through Gods help vnderstood Such am I in the writings of others and such would I haue the vnderstanders of mine to bee Epist 19. ad Hieron Finally I saith the same Saint Augustin confesse vnto your charity that I haue learned to yeeld vnto those books of Scripture alone which now are called Canonicall this reuerence and honor that I most firmely belieue no Author of them to haue erred any thing in writing And if I find any thing in their writings which seemeth contrary to truth I will not sticke to say that either the copie is faulty or the translator apprehended not what is spoken or I vnderstand it not But others I so read that how much soeuer they excell in holynesse and learning I thinke it not therefore true because they thought so but because either by those Canonicall Authors or by probable reason not abhorring from truth they were able to perswade mee Thus the Fathers whose steps if wee tread in and whose counsell if wee follow and not taking vp euery thing vpon trust but examining them by the touchstone of truth I hope wee are rather to bee commended then blamed And reason for neither were the Fathers more then men neither are wee of this age lesse then men And I wonder why we may not iudge of the sayings of those who are but men as well as our selues What haue wee not reasonable soules as well as they are we not endued with the same faculty of vnderstanding and discoursing haue wee not still the same helps both of nature and art which they had Or when they died did the Holy Ghost also giue vp the ghost with them or doth hee deny to assist these latter times with his enlightning grace as hee
did the former Ioh. 16.13 Certainly the Spirit that leadeth into all truth is yet and euer shall bee amongst vs vnto the end of the world And as before the writings of the Fathers were hee directed his Church vnto the true sence of Scripture so now I doubt not but if all whatsoeuer they haue written were vtterly lost he would still guide vs therein as hee did them And verily vnlesse wee will bee too vnthankfull wee cannot but confesse that as age through Gods bounty hath had more meanes then those heretofore so through his blessing it hath made further proceedings also in the knowledge of Scripture For besides that wee haue whatsoeuer helps they had we haue ouer and aboue the benefit of all their works together with much skilfulnes in the Originall of the old Testament which most of them wanted and of the new also wherewith some were but little acquainted In regard whereof whosoeuer shall duly compare the ancient Commentaries with those of latter times must needs bee either weake in iudgement or obstinate in preiudice if hee preferre not these Your owne men ingenuously acknowledge so much Art 18. cont Luther It cannot bee vnknowne to any saith Fisher B. of Rochester that there are many things as well in other Scriptures as the Gospels now more cleerely discussed and throughly vnderstood then in ancient times namely because the Ancients had not the yce broken vnto them or because their age sufficed not exactly to sound the whole sea of Scripture In Rom. 5. disp 51. And Salmeron God hath not giuen to all men all that euery age might enioy some truths which the former knew not Euery age hath euer ascribed much to antiquity yet this wee auouch the yonger the Doctors the cleerer sighted And Dominicus Bannes Jt is not necessary that the more remote the Church is from the Apostles times the lesse perfect knowledge of the mysterie of Faith should bee therein because after the Apostles time there were not the most learned in the Church which had dexterity in vnderstanding the matters of Faith Wee are not therefore enwrapped in the more darknesse for that in respect of time wee are more distant from Christ but rather the Doctors of these latter times being godly and treading in the steps of the ancient Fathers haue attained more expresse vnderstanding in some things then they had For they are like children standing on the shoulders of Giants who being lifted by the talnesse of Giants no maruell if they see further then they themselues In Luc. 10. This similitude Stella also vseth to the same purpose God forbid saith he that I should condemne what such and so many wise men haue with one accord affirmed yet wee know well that Pigmies set on the shoulders of Giants see further then the Giants themselues doe Thus they Whereby you see the Fathers haue no prerogatiue aboue vs because they were before vs but wee rather haue the aduantage because wee come after them In a word bee they whatsoeuer you will their seruants wee are not but their fellow seruants sent from God with the same commission to the same end and with the same promises that they were Neither doth their authority more bind vs in that they are our predecessors then our authority shall bind them who many ages hereafter may be our successors But draw we a little closer The ancient Fathers say you are the ground of your Faith What seuerally and single by themselues 〈◊〉 12. I suppose no for there is not one of them as your owne side confesseth but hath his error and I presume you would bee loth to follow them therein The Fathers therefore either all iointly or the more part of them agreeing in one So Canus Loc. lib. 7. c. 3. What the greater part of the Fathers iudgeth that wee professe to bee of the Catholicke Faith So Salmeron also In 1. Ioh. 3. disp 25. When all or almost all Fathers agree in one it is an ineuitable argumeÌ„t And Gregory of Valentia It is infallibly true which they deliuer with one consent Anal. l. 8. c. 8. â—ea an infallible rule iudging And Onuphrius Prim. Pap. p. 1. c. 6. It is rash and foolish and terrible rashnesse to goe against a sense giuen by the Fathers for the vnderstanding of the Scriptures And finally the Councell of Trent which peremptorily chargeth that no man dare to interprete the Scriptures against the vnanimous consent of the Fathers This then vndoubtedly being your assertion as euery way according with the Tenet of the Church of Rome let vs in Gods name trie the strength thereof and see with what security and safety a man may aduenture his Faith and consequently his eternall saluation vpon this ground And first whosoeuer will stedfastly repose his Faith vpon consent of Fathers had need be right well assured which are the authenticall writings of the Fathers For if these bee doubtfull and vncertaine the whole frame raised vpon them must of necessity shake and totter Now that there are bookes more then a good many which in their forefronts are inscribed and entitled vnto the Fathers yet in truth are meerely suppositious and apocryphall I know you cannot bee ignorant Nor Origen nor Athanasius nor Basil nor Chrysostome nor Cyril nor Tertullian nor Cyprian nor Ambrose nor Hierâ—me nor Augustin nor any one almost of all the Fathers but hath suffered notorious wrong in this kind hauing base brats and misbegotten bastards fathered vpon him Which also is so cleere and manifest that Posseuin and Salmeron and Maldonat and Baronius and Bellarmine and all the rest of that side though too frequently they make vse of such refuse stuffe yet euery where in their writings are constrained to acknowledge so much Biblioth l. 4. But amongst the rest Sixtus Senensis especially who purposely recording the works of all the Fathers taketh vpon him to demonstrate as much in euery one of them as in his Catalogue hee passeth from one Father to another So that indeed it would bee but an idle wasting both of oile and time if I should spend many words in proofe of that which is denied of none and therefore I forbeare further to trouble you with particularity Only because in our Conference you so confidently affirmed that Dionysius the Areopagite euen he who was Saint Pauls conuert and Scholler was the right Author of all those books that are now extant vnder his name I must entreat you to haue a little patience while I maintaine against you the negatiue which I then held and for which I stand still engaged vnto you That this Denise is but a counterfait but Diuines proue by sundry vnanswerable arguments I will not vrge them all but cull out the choicest Omitting therefore the Stile sauouring more of three hundred yeeres after then those Apostolicall times and his curious speculations in the secrets of heauen as if hee had beene surueyer thereof or had taken a muster
fo◠〈◊〉 second question I thinke you will confesse pardon â—ee if I thinke amisse that you haue not skill enough with vnderstanding to read the Greeke Fathers in their Original but are faine to trust vnto Translations But I beseech you doe not Translators many times what through ignorance or neglicence or wilfulnesse mistake and peruert the meaning of their Author L. 2. c. 1. Ruffinus translated the Ecclesiasticall history of Eusebius and in it this passage of Clemens that Peter Iames and Iohn although Christ preferred them almost before all yet they tooke not the honour of Primacy to themselues but ordained Iames who was surnamed Iust Bishop of the Apostles A shrewd testimony for the Primacy of Iames against that of Peter but the error is in the translation the Greeke Eusebius hauing not Bishop of the Apostles but Bishop of Hierusalem Yet Marianus Scotus citeth the same out of Methodius iust according to Ruffins translation from whence perhaps it was taken Hist l. 2. c. 23. Eusebius himselfe in expresse tearmes affirmeth the Epistle of S. Iames to be Spurious but your Chrystopherson renders it so as if he had meant that not himselfe but some others in the Church had so esteemed it in former times And lastly not to stand longer vpon this point that very translation of Cyrillus Alexandrinus which you haue made by Trapezuntius you haue little reason much to trust vnto For as Bonauentura Vulcanius sheweth Praef. Ann. it is a very disorderly one wherein many things are omitted much is added of his owne and much peruersly translated To conclude therefore seeing the writings of the Fathers haue so many wayes and so notoriously beene abused by addition by subtraction by alteration by misquotation by mistranslation it followeth that infallible certainty from them you can haue none and so consequently that you cannot safely build your Faith vpon them To proceed the Scriptures you say are obscure and ambiguous and therefore you may not rest vpon them saue onely as they are expounded of the Fathers If so then if the Fathers also bee obscure and ambiguous neither may you rest your Faith vpon them Now certainly the Fathers are as darke and doubtfull as the Scripture If you thinke otherwise doe but read the works of Tertullian and Arnobius and let me afterward know your minde For my part I see no reason why the Scripture should bee more subiect to diuersity of interpretations according to the difference of times as Cardinall Cusan impiously affirmeth Ep. 2. 7. Cont. Whit. l. 2. p. 45. and Duraeus the Iesuit impudently defendeth then the writings of the Fathers What doe wee not vouch the Fathers on both sides are we not as confident vpon them as you whence commeth this I beseech you if they bee so cleere that no doubt can bee made of them And why doe you professe in your Flemish Expurgatorie Index that in ancient Catholike Writers yee tolerate many errors yee extenuate and excuse them and often deny them by deuising some shift and faining a sence vnto them when they are opposed against you What need I say all these tricks and fetches if there bee no obscurity in them If literall and Grammaticall construction may cary it the Fathers are directly ours and wee suppose they ment as they wrote neither can you make any shew of answer vnlesse you fall to expound the meaning of them And so as you remoue your Faith from the letter of the Scripture vnto the exposition of the Fathers so must you of force remoue the same againe from the letter of the Fathers vnto some other tribunall to determine the sence and meaning thereof Giue mee leaue to declare this by some few examples That Faith only iustifies Origen Cyprian Eusebius Caesariensis Hilary Basil Chrysostome Ambrose Augustin Cyril Primasius Hesychius Gennadius Oecumenius in expresse tearmes affirme agreeing therein with vs whose words I will not fayle to produce whensoeuer you shall require Against hauing of Images in Churches and the Adoration of them wee haue the precise words not onely of Lactantius and Epiphanius and other Fathers seuerally Epist ad Ioh. Hicrosol but nineteene Bishops together in the Councell of Eliberis and of the whole Councell of Frankford vnder Charles the Great Against the Bishop of Romes supremacy wee haue the plaine resolution of Pope Gregory Lib. 6. ep 30. that he is the forerunner of Antichrist whosoeuer desires to bee called Vniuersall Bishop And of the Generall Councell of Chalcedon Act. 16. giuing to the Bishop of Constantinople equall priuiledges with the Bishop of Rome And of two hundred seuenteene Bishops in the sixt Councell of Carthage among whom were Saint Augustin Prosper Gresians and many other worthy Fathers all decreeing that the Pope of Rome thenceforward should haue no authority ouer the African Churches Finally against Transubstantiation thus writeth Gelasius himselfe a Bishop of Rome De dâ—ab nat con Euâ—ych The Sacraments of the Body and Bloud of CHRIST which we receiue is a diuine thing wherefore by them wee are made partakers of the diuine nature and yet the substance of bread and wine ceaseth not to bee Thus also Theodoret Dial. 1. Hee who hath called meat and drinke that which naturally is his body and after cals himselfe a Vine he himselfe hath honoured the visible signes with the name of his Body and Bloud hauing not changed their nature but hauing added grace vnto nature And againe Dial. 10. The signes mysticall change not their nature after consecration for they remaine in their first substance figure and forme Hom. 11. Chysostom likewise if hee bee the Authour of the imperfect worke on Math. In the sacred vessels there is not the true Body of CHRIST but the mystery of his Body And Saint Augustin The Lord doubted not to say This is my Body Con. Adimant c. 12. when he gaue the signe of his Body Thus the Fathers in these few points neither is it hard to shew the like consent in the rest What Will you now subscribe vnto their words yea being taken in the right sense But who shall iudge of the 〈◊〉 on vnderstand them one way we another Shall 〈◊〉 learned Rabbies of your side Fic that were too partiall and they so enterfere in their answers that they cut and hew one the other miserably Reuerend Bishop Morton hath demonstrated this at large Preambleâ—ng Mitigator Take one of his examples The Councell of Bâ—â—beris forbiddeth the hauing of Images in Churches Do Imagin l. 2. c. 9. and Adoration of them Of Images representing Gods nature faith Andradâ—â—s No saith Bellarmine for such were not then in vse For feare test Gentiles should thinke Christians warshipped them idolatrously saith Sanders But the reason of the Canon agreeth not much with this exposition saith Bellarmine Because Christians seemed to worship those Images as Gods Ibid. saith Alen Cope But this exposition is not agreeable to the Canon saith
Bâ—llâ—rmine Lest in time of persecution they should bee made a scorne and contempt vnto infidels saith Sanders Allen Turrian De adorat l. 2. d. 5. c. 2. n. 131. and Bellarmine But this exposition agreeth not with the intention of the Canon saith Vasques Lest by the decay of the wals they might loose their lustre saith the same Vasques Ib. n. 132. The Councell was but prouinciall and neuer confirmed by the Pope Ib. n. 121. Bell. Imag. l. 2. c. 36. Bin. de Conc. in hunc Can. Biblioth l. 5. ann 247. say diuerse of late being oppressed with the obiection But Baronius and Binius affirme that it was a lawfull Councell and free from errour And whatsoeuer the occasion of the prohibition was this is sure The Councell of Eliberis did absolutely forbid the worship of images saith Sixtus Senensis What say you now to this language of Babel Can you gather any certainty for your Faith out of such confusion Certainly you cannot And if many Fathers laying their heads together in a generall Councell may euen in then decrees of Faith vse inconuenient speech either by superfluity of teâ—â—mes or disorderly placing them and the like so that noâ—â—â— much the words as the sâ—â—â—e is to bee regarded De Concil l. 2. c. 12. as your Bellarmine affirmeth 〈◊〉 you reâ—deâ— any reason why some few of them writing funderly one from another may not also faile in their tearmes and thereby leaue the Readers mind in suspence and douth what their true meaning should bee The very Syâ—â—â— of Trent hath not spoken so plainely but that it hath left scruples in the mind of some And yet Good God faith Campian what variety of Nations Rat. 4. what choice of Bishops out of the whole world what Maiesty of King and States what marow of Diuines what holynesse what teares what fasting what flowers of Vniuersities what tongues what subtilty what industry what infinite reading what richesse of vertues and studies replenished that more then humane Sanctuary All which notwithstanding Bellarmine and Sixtus Senensis accord not in the meaning of the third Session touching the number of the Canonicall books De verb. Dei l. 1. c. 7. For Bellarmine thinks that the seuen last chapters of Hester following after the tenth are by the Councell admitted into the Canon Biblioth l. 1. 8. but Sixtus thinketh no. Neither yet are Bellarmine and Ambrose Catharin agreed about the eleuenth Canon of the seuenth Session concerning the necessity of the Priests intention to make a Sacrament the one affirming it De Sacram. in gen l. 1. c. 27. Opusc de intent minist Ib. de laps pecc or c. 6. the other denying it Nor lastly are they resolued of the Councels mind touching Originall sinne Catharin who had beene in the Councell a great stickler Bell. de amis grat l. 5. c. 1â— defining it onely by the Imputation of Adams sinne others affirming it to be more then so and that vpon the words of the Councell too I could easily instance in sundry other points but these are enough to let you see that the Oracles of Loxiaâ— went 〈◊〉 more perplexe then the Decrees of this Tridentâ—â— conuenticle Whether they were framed so of purpose or no I cannot tell many shrewdly suspect it Sure I am it hath beene so farre from stinting of quarels that in many things it hath beene and still is the matter and fewell of contention Howsoeuer seeing the Fathers oftentimes write so darkly and ambiguously that there is great doubt made not onely betweene you and vs but amongst your chiefest Doctors also what their right meaning should bee I conclude and that according to your own rule that Consent of Fathers cannot bee a sufficient ground to build vpon But what if the more part of Fathers consent in error euen in those points which the Church of Rome herselfe condemneth Will you not then freely confesse that such Consent is not so firme and sure a ground as you tooke it to bee Doubtlesse you will vnlesse you be too too wilfull and obstinate in your opinion Let vs therefore a little examine this point That Christ after the first Resurrection shall liue with his elect hereupon earth for a thousand yeeres in all peace and happynesse vntill the second Resurrection is the error of the Millenaries and iustly condemned by the Church of Rome Yet Papias Saint Iohn the Apostles auditor Sixt. Senens l. 5. ann 233. 6. ann 347. Apollinarius Irenaus Tertullianus Victorinus Pitabionensis Lactantius Seuerus Sulpitius Iustin Martyr and a great multitude of other Catholicke men were of the â—â—me opinion all being deceiued by misunderstanding that in the Reuelation And they shall raigne with him a thousand yeeres S. Augustin speaketh very tenderly of it De ciuit Dei l. 20. c. 7. In Ier. l. 4. calling it neither error not heresy himselfe hauing sometimes held it And Hierome durst not condemne it because so many Church-men and Martyrs had said it That the soules of iust men after their dissolution see not the face of God vntill the day of iudgement is an error and condemned by the Church of Rome Yet the Liturgie fathered vpon Saint Iames Irenaeus Iustin Tertullian Clemens Romanus Origen Lactantius Victorinus Martyr Prudentius Ambrose Chrysostome the Authour of the Vnperfect worke on Mathew Augustin Theodoret Arethas Oecumenius Theophylact Eâ—thymius Pope Iohn the two and twentieth and Bernard held the same whose particular words Sixtus Senensis recordeth in his Library Lib. 6. annot 345. Stapl. de auth Sc. l. 1. c. â— I am not ignorant how Sixtus there laboureth to excuse them but others of his pewfellowes find their words so pregnant that they can by no meanes salue them That the thrice blessed Virgin Mary was conceiued in Originall Sinne the Church of Rome holdeth to bee an error 3. d. 117. n. 148. for not onely the vnskilfull vulgar but the Doctors and Diuines and all Catholiks with one consent fight for the Immaculate Conception saith Vasques And why hath your Church by her authority commanded the feast of â—â—r Conception to bee celebrated vnlesse shee were conceiued without sinne De consecr d. 4. Firmissime n. 11. Yet Cardinall Turrâ—cremata affirmes that all the Doctors in a manner maintaine the contrary and that hee had gathered together the testimonies of three hundred to that effect noting the very places and words wherein they affirme it Part. 1. q. 1. d. 5. And Dominicus Bannes saith that it is the generall consent of the holy Doctors that shee was conceiued in sinne and yet the contrary is held in the Church to bee not onely probable but very godly That Angels and the Soules of men are bodily Actione 5. visible and circumscriptible is an error and condemned by the Church of Rome Yet three hundred Fathers such as they were and fifty vpon the head of them in the second Councell of Nice auouch it and alledge the
Articles he meriteth by belieuing although it be an error because hee is bound to belieue vntill it manifestly appeare that it is against the Church O immortall God if this bee true how easy a thing is it for a Papist to bee saued Onely belieue what your Prelate or Curate telleth you and you shall not need to trouble your selfe further for whether it be true or false sound doctrine or heresy you are out of danger nay it is meritorious to belieue it Alas alas that poore simple people should bee so miserably cheated and seduced God I hope will ere long open their eyes to see these impostures and by the light of his word guide their feet in a surer way In the meane season giue me leaue to summe vp all what I haue hitherto sayd and thereupon to inferre the Conclusion first intended Seeing therefore as wee haue now fully demonstrated the Fathers were but men as wee are neither hauing the Promise nor assuming vnto themselues the Priuiledge of Infallibility aboue vs seeing secondly many Counterfaits are set forth vnder the names of the Fathers which the best of your side cannot so readily discerne and which they ordinarily alledge in euery controuersie betwixt vs for authenticall Fathers seeing thirdly the writings of the Fathers are pitifully corrupted and adulterated by Hereticks and others and that sundry wayes by Addition Substraction Alteration Misquotation and False translation seeing fourthly the sayings of the Fathers are so ambiguous and obscure that not onely we and you one against another but your owne side also among themselues are distracted and diuided touching the sence and meaning of them seeing fiftly the more part of the Fathers sometime consent in errour yea and such errors as the present Church of Rome condemneth with Anathema seeing sixtly the most learned of your side make no scruple to reiect the Fathers whensoeuer they consent against them and warrant their so doing with diuerse reasons seeing lastly they make not Consent of Fathers but the authority of the present Church that is to say the Pope for the time being to bee the onely Infallible iudge of Controuersies seeing I say all these things are vndoubtedly so I will not bee afraid to conclude that the pretended Consent of Fathers is too weake and deceitfull a ground for a man with security to build his Faith vpon For whereas you say that beleeuing as the Fathers did if they bee saued as doubtlesse they are you cannot miscary take heed lest this proue but a broken reed and deceiue you in the end For first if for the reasons aboue set down you cannot be infallibly certaine which are the true Fathers and what is their right meaning how can you bee infallibly certaine that you belieue as they did Againe doe you thinke it safe to hold all their errors also and because they are not condemned for them that you shall escape condemnation in like manner beleeuing them Cont. Haer. c. 10. Heare then what Vincentius Lirinensis saith O wonderfull change of things saith hee the Authors of the same opinion are iudged Catholicks and the followers Heretiks the Masters are absolued and the Schollers condemned the Writers of the books shall bee the Sonnes of the Kingdome and Hell shall keep those that maintaine them For who doubts but blessed Cyprian the light of Bishops and holy Martyrs together with the rest of his Collegues shall raigne for euer with Christ Contrarily who is so impious as to deny that the Donatists and the rest of that pestilent crew who vnder the authority of that Councell presume to rebaptize shall burne for euermore with the Diuell Thus hee whereby you see how dangerous it is to beleeue euen as the best haue done before vs vnlesse wee haue better warrant then so for our doing Lastly suppose the Fathers consenting erred not yet are you neuer the safer For the strength of Faith exceeds not the strength of the testimony nor the strength of the testimony the Veracity of the Witnesse Now the Veracity of the Fathers is but the Veracity of men and the Veracity of men is imperfect and inconstant euer leauing roome for that word of truth All men are lyers Whence it followeth that your Faith being grounded only on the Veracity of men is no better then an Acquisite and Humane Faith Whereby though you belieue all that the Fathers did yet not belieuing as they did they may bee saued and you perish For they building vpon diuine testimony belieued with a Diuine Faith and therefore Sauing but you relying on humane authority belieue onely with an Acquisite and Humane Faith which saueth not no not although the things you belieue thereby are true For an Acquisite Faith the diuels themselues may haue and yet are damned Wherefore it being as you see so dangerous and vnsafe to trust in man and as the Prophet speaketh to make flesh your arme let mee entreat you euen in the bowels of Iesus Christ to take vnto you Christian seuerity and with all speed to returne your Faith backe againe vpon the rocke from which so rashly and vnaduisedly you remoued it Remember I beseech you how S. Augustin in a controuersy betwixt him and Hierome touching S. Peters dissimulation hauing eleuated the authority of foure of those seuen Fathers which were vrged against him and not being able to oppose three to the other three remaining Epist 19. quitteth himselfe thus When saith he I seeke a third that I also may oppose three to three verily I suppose I might easily find him if I had read much howbeit to mee the Apostle Paul shall bee insteed of all yea and aboue them all To him I flie to him I appeale of him I aske and demand c. In like manner doe you also and in Gods name let your finall appeale bee made vnto the holy Scriptures as vnto the supreme iudge in all questions of Faith Catech. 4. Theod. l. 1. c. 7. For as Cyril B. of Ierusalem saith The security of our Faith ariseth from the demonstration of the holy Scripture and the resolution of those things we seeke for must bee taken out of the diuine inspired Scripture saith Constantin in his oration to the Bishops of the Nicen Councell Con. Herm. De bon vid. c. 1. Orat. de ijs q. adeunt Hierosol Hom. 13. in 2. Cor. Epist 112. ad Paulin. And reason for the Scriptures are the rule of Faith as Tertullian and Augustin say A straight and inflexible rule as Gregory Nyssen saith A most exquisite rule and exact square and ballance to trie all things by saith Chrysostome In regard whereof saith Saint Augustin If a matter bee grounded on the euident authority of holy Scripture such I say as the Church calleth Canonicall it is without all doubt to bee belieued but as touching other witnesses and testimonies vpon whose credit a thing is vrged vpon vs to bee belieued thou majest lawfully either credit or not credit them as thou perceiuest them
Sanc de celebâ—â— Miss It is true indeed that Honorius the third decreed that Priests should often teach their people reuerently to bow theÌ„selues at the Eleuation of the Hoste when Masse is said and when the Priest carries it to one that is sicke and I deny not but thereby he inteÌ„ded the Adoration of the Hoste But you should know that it is one thing to receiue the Communion Kneeling another thing to Kneele at the Eleuation when there is no Receiuing This Honorius decreed not that for ought I can learne Nay further what that gesture was which succeeded accubitus lying on beds whether it were kneeling or standing or sitting I suppose he who is well acquainted with Ecclesiasticall Story can hardly determine much lesse you whose reading therein passeth not beyond the booke of Martyrs Let euery one herein abound in his owne sence I for my part thinke it was Kneeling rather then any other because it is a gesture of most reuerence Lib. 4. c. 8. Hospinian a learned man who wrote the story of this Sacrament hath these words This Sacrament ought to bee handled with great Religion and reuerence according to the custome of euery Church with decent apparell temperate behauiour soberly religiously the head bare the knees bent and other such like free ceremonies And this reuerence or honour I doubt not but some of the Fathers aboue cited vnderstood by the word Adoration For to Adore sometime signifieth as all know externall reuerence and veneration exhibited by bodily gestures and speech vnto a thing as when the knees are bent the body is bowed the head vncouered the hands lifted vp c. Thus far Hospinian by whose iudgement Kneeling in all likely-hood was vsed long before Honorius liued or the Reall Presence was dreamed of Howsoeuer it is meere foppery to imagine that a thing in it selfe lawfull once abused to a bad end can neuer recouer its right againe and bee lawfully vsed and then taking this for granted to preiudice our reuerent receiuing by Romish practice and superstition I conclude therefore this point with that excellent saying of Origen Hom. 5. in Euang. when thou receiuest that holy meat and incorruptible banket when thou enioyest that Bread and Cup of life and eatest and drinkest the Body and Bloud of the Lord then the Lord entreth vnder thy roofe Thou therefore humbling thy selfe imitate the Centurion and say Lord I am not worthy that thou shouldst come vnder my roofe The third argument 3 All shew of euill must bee eschewed 1. Thess 5.22 Kneeling is a shew of euill as of Bread worship Ergo Kneeling must bee eschewed First I interprete the Maior Saint Pauls words in the place by you quoted are these 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which may bee rendred thus Abstaine from all kind of euill For the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 signifieth kinde and in this sence the Syriacke translation vnderstandeth it And interpreting it thus the Maior is vniuersally and without exception true for no euill whatsoeuer being intrinsecally and formally so may in any case bee done Besides this exposition there is another more generally approued Abstaine from all shew of euill or euill shew For as euill it selfe must bee refrained that God bee not offended nor our Consciences disquieted so must shew of euill also bee auoided that wee scandall not our brother nor discredit our profession But in this sence the Maior is not vniuersally and without exception true For first it holds not in necessary duties commanded by God nor in things indifferent ordered by man For the substance must not bee neglected because of a shadow nor wee fall into the reall euils of Disobedience and Disloyalty to auoid the shew of euill Againe it holds not in Imaginary shewes such as are without ground fancied in the sicke braines of humorous and malecontented people but such onely as indeed carry with them a shrewd presumption of that euill whereof it is a shew And thus the Maior is granted vnto you in the former sence absolutely and simply in the latter respectiuely with these restrictions and limitations Now to the Minor I answere first Kneeling is not formally euill but of an indifferent and middle nature neither good nor euill and therefore is not forbidden by the former interpretation Abstaine from all kind of euill Secondly I denie it to bee a shew of euill For whereof Of Bread worship you say How so seing we are neither Transubstantiators nor Consubstantiators and haue long since openly before all men disclaimed both Eleuation Adâ—â—â—tion And to whom To Papist or Protestant Certainly neither for the one condemnes vs for not adoring and the other suspects vs not for adoring So that the Shew of Breadworship lieth not in our Kneeling but in your Imagination Which if it be a sufficient reason to barre vs from Kneeling I must entreat you for the same reason to abstaine from Sitting See Tertull. de orat c. 12. for I can easily imagine in it a shew of euill namely of Sleighting and Contemning the Sacrament Nay I must pray you to sit still and do nothing for what is it wherein a man may not fancie some euill shew or other Lastly suppose Kneeling haue the shew you speake of yet is it not to be forborne because it is in the number of those things that are excepted from the generall rule For it is commanded by authority and to receiue the Communion is a necessary duty which among us without Kneeling cannot bee done Now as I haue said to auoid seeming euill we may not be euill and for feare of a shadow loose the substance I meane the benefit and comfort of the Sacrament And thus your argument drawen from the shew of euill proues as you see but the shew of an argument I come to the last reason 4 If we may kneele to Bread and wine much more may We kneele to Angels But wee may not kneele to Angels Rev. 19.10 Ergo wee may not kneele to bread and wine This is that Fallacie which Logicians call Ignorance of the Elench when that is concluded which is not in question For our Question is Whether we may kneele at the receauing of the Sacrament but your Conclusion is wee may not kneele to Bread and Wine Neither shall there bee any quarell betweene vs about this point for we readily grant it you acknowledging further that your argument from the greater to the lesse sufficiently euinceth it For if we may not fall downe to adore an Angell much lesse may we do so to bread and wine And as we may not so wee do not Our Kneeling is not intended unto bread and wine but vnto God who in the Sacrament offereth vnto vs the blessed body and bloud of his sonne who is God also and to bee worshipped of vs for euermore You might therefore well haue forborne this argument which neither preiudiceth vs nor aduantageth your selfe any whit at all or if you haue any other meaning you should
iustice but as it is an exercise or declaration or perfection of Faith 12 Concerning the word Faith sometimes it signifieth that sanctifying grace of Gods spirit whereby wee beleeue in or on God that is put all our affiance vpon God in Christ for Iustification and Saluation sometimes a naked assent or agreeing to all the truths contained in the Scripture specially such as are Euangelicall That is only of the Elect this the Diuels haue That either hath works following it as in Abraham or is great in child of works ready to trauell and bring forth if God giue time as in the theefe on the crosse This many times is without works and therefore dead and spiritles Of that S. Paul speaketh of this S. Iames. That sole but not solitary iustifies this being solitary iustifies not 13 In a word S. Paul speaks of the cause of Iustification S. Iames of the Effect S. Paul descends from the Cause to the Effect S. Iames ascends from the Effects to the Cause S. Paul resolues how wee may bee iustified S. Iames how wee may bee knowne to bee iustified S. Paul excludes works as being no Cause of Iustification S. Iames requires works as fruites of Iustification S. Paul denies works to go before them that are to bee iustified S. Iames affirmeth that they follow him that is iustified 14 Others distinguish and reconcile them thus Iustification is sometime vnderstood without implying Sanctification sometime as it implyeth also Sanctification with it In the former sence S. Paul taketh it when hee proueth that a man is iustified by Faith without works S. Iames in the latter when he concludeth that a man is iustified by works and not by Faith only And this I suppose to be a very sound interpretation 15 Howsoeuer that Faith alone without the works of the Law in the sence aboue deliuered doth iustifie these ancient Fathers auouch together with us Origen Cyprian Eusebius Caesariensis Hilarie Basil Chrysostome Ambrose Augustin Cyril Primasius Hesychius Gennadius Oecumenius whose direct and expresse words I can at any time produce Nay these late Papists also least it should be thought that none but Protestants hold it the Canons of Collein the authors of the booke offered by Caesar vnto the Protestant Collocutors in the assemblie of Ratisbon Pighius Cassander Stapulensis Peraldus Ferus and others who count themselues as good Catholiks as they that hold otherwise 16 And this only Faith is so sure an anchor of our soules and suchâ— fountaine of true comfort both in life and death that Charles the fift Steuen Gardiner Sir Christopher Blunt and sundrie others durst not at their death trust vnto their works but vnto Faith in Christ only And Cardinal Bellarmin after a long disputation touching the merit of works is faine to conclude that because of the vncertenty of our owne iustice and the danger of vaineglory the Safest course is to repose all our affiance in the only mercy and goodnes of God So that in his iudgement wee Protestants haue chosen the Safest course I for my part will neuer trust my soule vnto them who leauing so safe a course meane to hazard it through a more dangerous way OF THE AVTHORS AND AVTHORITY OF THE CREED AND WHY IT IS CALLED a Symbole THE inscription of the Creed seemes to father it on the holy Apostles calling it the Symbole of the Apostles So doe almost all the Fathers of the fourth age after Christ and downeward affirming that the Apostles hauing receiued the Holy Ghost at Ierusalem and being now ready to disperse themselues into all parts of the world to preach the Gospell thought it good before their parting to compile this Symbole that it might serue as a pledge of their vnity in the Faith and a canon for their doctrine and teaching Yea some of them proceed so farre as particularly to set downe what article was made by what Apostle whereof see Augustin in his hundred and fifteenth Sermon de tempore Now although it bee very hard for mee to sway against the streame of so maine authority yet can I not but doubt thereof Paraphr in Mat. Praef. and confesse with Erasmus I know not who made the Creed especially hauing so great probabilities for demonstrations I dare not call them that it should not bee done by the twelue Apostles For first were it compiled by them is it likely that Saint Luke writing the history of their Acts would haue omitted so principall a matter Sundry other things of farre lesse consequence hee hath carefully recorded but of this so important and weighty a businesse hee makes not so much as one word mention which certainly hee would neuer haue failed to doe had they done so Adde hereunto that not one of the ancient Fathers who liued within the three first Centuries of Christ speake of any such thing in any of their writings and yet they should best know it whose times were neerest vnto the Apostles This deep silence both of Saint Luke and all those ancient Doctors make it vnto mee more then probable that the Apostles neuer composed it Secondly as the silence of these worthies so the very language of the Creed conuinceth it to bee yonger then the Apostles For the word Catholike vsed in the Creed was not knowne in their time Can any man thinke that the Church should then bee called Catholike when it was not Catholike For when they say this Creed was compiled the Church was scarce begunne among the Iewes and the Apostles had no where as yet preached the Gospell among the Gentils But heare the expresse words of Pacianus Bishop of Barcilona Sed sub Apostolis Ad Sympronian Epist 1. inquies nemo Catholicus vocabatur Esto sic fuerit Vel illud indulge cum post Apostolos haereses extitissent diuersisque nominibus columbam Dei atque Reginam lacerare per partes scindere niterentur nonne cognomen suum plebs Apostolica postulabat quo incorrupti populi distingueret vnitatem neintemeratam Dei virginem error aliquorum per membra laceraret In the Apostles times you will say no man was called Catholicke Bee it so Yet by your leaue when after the Apostles heresies were risen vp and by diuersity of names they laboured to rent and teare in peeces the done and queene of God was it not requisite that those which were Apostolike should haue a sirname of their owne whereby the vnity of those that are vncorrupt might bee distinguished and the error of none might rent in peeces the immaculate virgin of God Thus hee Against which if it bee obiected that the Epistles of Iames Peter Iohn and Iude are called Catholicke I answer the Inscriptions and Subscriptions of the Epistles are not Apostolicall but added to them by some other and sometime vntruly Neither is there any reason they should bee so stiled aboue the rest For neither is the doctrine contained in them more Catholicke then of all the other Epistles neither were they written to all the
themselues of the vniust imputations of heresie and apostasie wherewith they were charged haue beene forced sundrie times to set forth seuerall Confessions of their Faith all which or most of which are recorded in the harmonie of Confessions Scurrilous therefore is that taunt of Papists who for this cause terme vs Confessionists For what haue we done herein whereunto their slanderous criminations haue not compelled vs what whereof we haue not example from the Primiue Church Nay what whereof we haue not Gods expresse commandement 1 Pet. 3.16 charging vs to bee ready on euery occasion to render an account of the Hope that is in vs But yet among all the ancient Creeds this of the Apostles hath euer beene counted of greatest authority and ought still so to bee counted Among the ancient Creeds I say for the Scripture is peerles and equall authority with it neither may it chalenge vnto it selfe neither did any of the ancient Fathers giue it as aboue wee haue touched For although the substance and matter of the Creed be diuine and perfectly according with the Scripture yet for forme and order of words it is humane whereas the Scripture both for substance and circumstance matter and forme and all is no way humane but wholly and entirely diuine The greater the blasphemie of Rhemish Iesuites auouching this Creed to be the Rule whereby all the writings of the new Testament are to be tried In Ro. 12.6 and approued whereas contrarily the Scripture out of which the Creed is collected is the only Rule by which both it and all other Creeds are to bee examined Howbeit the second place as it is its due so we willingly yeeld vnto it First in regard of the antiquity thereof because of all other it is the eldest Secondly for the perfection and fulnes thereof there being no one article of absolute necessity vnto Saluation which is not either in expresse tearmes or impliedly and in its principles contayned therein Thirdly and lastly because it hath had the vniuersall approbation of all Churches in all times both ancient and moderne The ancient Fathers giue vnto it most honorable and magnificent titles They call it the key of Faith the rule of Faith the foundation of Faith the summe of Faith the forme of Faith the body of Faith the rule of truth the sacrament of humane saluation the mysterie of religion the character of the Church and the like On it they commented rather then on any other Creed vnto it all others were conformed so as they seeme to be but expositions of it Finally it was their manner neuer to admit any that was adultus either to the Sacrament of Baptisme or to the holy Eucharist without making confession of his Faith by rehearsing this Creed In like manner all the reformed Churches with all reuerence and duty receiue it they vse it in their publick Liturgies and expound it in their Catechismes The more malitious is the slander of Gregorie Martin and others Disc of Eng. trans c. 12. who shame not to say that we hold not the Christian Faith of the articles of the Creed Yea saith another of vs they haue no faith nor religion Tho. Wright Att. they are infidels they beleeue not the holy Catholick Church the communion of Saints the remission of sins that Christ is the sonne of God or that he descended into Hell And as if these had not yet said enough Credo Caluiniscq another opening his mouth as wide as Hel affirmeth our Creed to bee this I beleeue in the Diuell the tormentor helmighty corrupter of heauen earth And in not-Iesus-not-Christ the only stepsonne degenerate who was spoiled of his glory by the holy Ghost and borne of Mary no Virgin c. To all which I answer Increpet te Dominus the Lord rebuke thee Satan If they haue called our master Belzebub it can be no disgrace to vs to suffer the same reproch The more incredible things they charge vs withall the lesse are themselues beleeued and the more credit do wee gaine vnto our profession All what is contayned in holy writ in this Creed of the Apostles in that of Nice and Athanasius wee firmely and entirely beleeue Let Hell and Antichrist and all the brood of Papists burst with malice and enuy yet this and no other Faith do wee hold and teach A SHORT CATECHISME QVaest Who placed you here in this World Ans God the maker and Gouernour of all things Q. Wherefore did hee place you here A. To serue and glorify him Q. How will he be serued A. By doing his holy Will and Commandements Q. What Commandments hath hee giuen you A. The ten Commandements of the Morall law Q. Repeat them vnto me A. Heare Israel I am the Lord thy God which c. Q. What duties doth God require of you in this law A. Two to loue God aboue all and my neighbour as my selfe Q. Haue you done this perfectly A. No neither yet can I nor any man els Q. Why can you not A. Because all are conceiued and borne in sinne Q. How commeth that to passe A. By the fall of our first parents Q. Had you obeyed the law what had beene the reward A. Life euerlasting Q. What is the punishment of Disobedience A. Euerlasting death Q. Your case then it seemes is very miserable A. Very miserable vnlesse God bee mercifull in Iesus Christ Q. What is Iesus Christ A. The Eternall Sonne of GOD made Man Q. Wherefore was he made Man A. To die for mans sin and to reconcile him vnto GOD. Q. Are all men reconciled by him A. No but true belieuers onely Q. Who are true Belieuers A. They who by faith accept him for their only Mediatour and Sauiour Q. How is this Faith wrought A. By the preaching of the Gospell Q. What is the summe of the Gospell A. It is contained in the Apostles Creed Q. Repeat the same vnto me A. I Belieue in God the Father Almighty maker c. Q. How may we know that we haue true Faith A. By the fruites thereof Q. What are the fruites of Faith A. New Obedience and Repentance Q. What is new Obedience A. A sincere practice of holynesse and righteousnesse all the dayes of my life Q. Can you doe this perfectly A. No but if I striue vnto perfection God in grace accepteth it Q. But what if you fall into sinne againe A. I am to rise againe by speedy repentance Q. What call you repentance A. A hearty sorrow for sinne with the amendement thereof Q. You say it must bee speedy tell mee wherefore A. Because if I bee preuented by death I perish eternally Q. What is the benefit of Repentance A. Forgiuenesse of sinnes with recouery of Gods fauour Q. You haue told mee how Faith is wrought and how it may bee discerned tell me now how it must be nourished and preserued A. By the vse of the Sacraments and Prayer Q. What is a Sacrament A. A seale of the
notwithstanding Papists haue abused it to signifie a Sacrificer yet properly it doth not so being originally deriued from Presbyter neither among vs is it now so vnderstood To say nothing that the anciēt Fathers who I presume were not Antichristian vsually call the Ministers of the Gospell Sacerdotes Priests As therefore you cannot without great absurdity reason from the name to the thing thus your Ministers are called Priests Ergo your Ministrie is Antichristian so neither can you without greater absurdity separate your selfe from the thing because of the name and because our Ministers are called Priests withdraw your selfe from our Ministrie Secondly Arch-bishops and Bishops if they be not of diuine institution yet were they some Centuries of yeeres before euer Antichrist appeared in the world as all antiquity and Ecclesiasticall Story testifieth That most famous first generall Councell of Nice assembled by Constantin the Great about the yeere of our Lord 327 not onely approueth them but also affirmeth that the Church anciently and long before that time had been gouerned by them Epiphanius Augustin both reckon Aerius among the number of Hereticks for denying the then-receiued and allowed distinction between a Bishop and a Presbyter But to speake my mind plainely I am for my part perswaded that the superiority of Bishops ouer the Ministers was of Apostolicall institution Those Angels to whom Saint Iohn in the second and third of the Reuelation is commanded to write what other were they then the Bishops of those Churches of Asia In Ephesus one of those seuen Churches it is reported by S. Luke that there were many Presbyters and I doubt not but it was so in other of the Churches also howbeit the Apostle writeth vnto one onely whom hee calleth the Angell as being singular and eminent aboue the rest And the ancient story of the Church recordeth the particular Bishops of euery one of those Churches together with their successors for a long time So that Bishops being in the Apostles time and successiuely continued in the Primitiue Church without any contradiction either of the Apostles themselues or any other yea rather with their approbation and allowance as appeareth by those seuen Epistles vnto the seuen Angels and all the writings of the ancient Fathers how can it bee imagined but that Bishops and their superiority ouer others was of Apostolicall institution Now if Priests or Pastors for as wee haue sayd in substance they be all one were ordained by God himselfe and Bishops deriue their pedigree also from the holy Apostles of God it followeth by necessary consequence that as our Ministery is not from Antichrist so neither is it against Christ Were it against Christ it would be either because he hath forbidden it or for that it destroyeth rather then edifieth the Church But it is no where forbidden If it bee shew the place and wee yeeld Neither doth it hinder the edification of the Church For first it is the office both of Bishops Priests to preach the Gospell of Christ and to administer his holy Sacraments Secondly the aduancement of one Presbyter aboue the rest was for the preuention of Schisme For when Factions began to arise in the Church some saying I am of Paul others I am of Apollos I am of Cephas then sayth Hierom was it decreed through the whole world that one being chosen from among the Presbyters should be set ouer the rest Who being so preferred his duty is to ouersee the rest of his brethren that they carefully discharge the office imposed vpon them and frame their liues according to the worthines of their calling All which I am sure furthereth the building of the Church so farre is it from destroying so that nor Priests nor Bishops whether yee regard their offices or the end of their ordination can be sayd to be against Christ Peraduenture for I would willingly let nothing passe vnanswered there lies a mistery in the word Lord-Bishops and you intend that they are the more Antichristian for that they are so called Surely if they should ambitiously affect the title of Lord Mat. 23. as the Pharisees somtimes did the title of Rabbi it were great pride and vanity in them and if they should 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Lord it and as it were domineere ouer the flock of Christ as if the inheritance were theirs it would be intollerable presumption tyranny But that a title of honour may be giuen vnto Bishops in regard of their honorable place and calling as there is no reason to the contrary so it must needs proceed from much enuie or frowardnesse to deny Gen. 31.35 1 King 18.7.13 Let it not bee displeasing in the eyes of my Lord saith Rahel to her Father Art not thou my Lord Elias And againe Was it not told my Lord what I did when Iezebel flew the Prophets of the Lord said good Obadiah vnto the Prophet If Laban because he was a naturall Father vnto Rahel and Eliah because hee was a Prophet might iustly bee so stiled why may not Bishops also who are the spirituall Fathers and Prophets yea and Angels of the Church Luc. 22.25.26 you will say our Sauiour expresly forbiddeth them to bee called Gratious Lords I deny it For although it pleased the translator so to render the originall word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 because anciently it was a title of honour giuen vnto Princes yet doth it not properly signify so but Benefactors or Wel-doers Neuerthelesse suppose it so signified yet is it not simply the title but the ambitious affectation of the title which Christ disliketh Act. 10.38 If a man imitating Iesus Christ should goe about 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 doing good were it a sinne trow you to giue him his deserued name and to call him 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 a wel-doer Had it been simply vnlawfull for a Minister to be called Lord would Paul and Silas haue admitted it and not rather haue reprehended the keeper of the prison saying vnto them My Lords Act. 16.30 what ought I to doe that I may bee saued Our Sauiour Christ saith vnto his disciples Bee not yee called Masters Bee not yee called Doctors Mat. 23.8.10 and yet among you some Ministers are called Doctors and all Masters So that it appeareth by your owne practice that the name of Lord maketh not Bishops Antichristian but as wee haue said it is the affecting of the name which is forbidden And thus you see your Minor is no way true Notwithstanding you endeauour to proue it thus Because the Churches of Antichrist cannot be compleate without this Prelacy as appeareth you say by the Popes Canons and Pontificall and by their Church-constitutions A seely and sory argument For first the Ministrie of the Church of England is so farre from being a complement of the Churches of Antichrist that the Church of Rome doth Anathematize and accurse it esteeming vs right as you doe to bee no Church at all because wee want their Ministry