believed by the Protestants and Popish Church we believe in Jesus Christ the Son of God of one and the same substance and nature with the Father they believe in a Jesus Christ Son of God but of a distinct and different nature and substance of the Father Isaac Pish That 's but a Nicety believe what you please and what you understand by Scripture to be true and have Charity Ismael I confess you have puzled but yet not wholly convinced me were I but perswaded that what you have discoursed is truly the Doctrin of the Reformation I would cheerfully embrace it and I will be better informed by your self but not tire your Patience We will meet again and pursue our Discourse upon this Subject Second Dialogue ISMAEL Reflecting in my Sollitude upon your last Discourse I find it bottom'd upon a false Principle for you suppose that whatever Doctrin is of Luther Calvin or any of your Learned Doctors Synods Parliaments or Congregations is the Doctrin of the Reformation and may without any more proof or scruple be believed by any Reformed Child who but sees this is ridiculous to fasten the Doctrin and absurd Opinions of each particular Doctor or Congregation upon the whole Body This is the uncharitable and unreasonable Art of the Papists who keep a great Coil with some exorbitant Opinions of Luther and Calvin and would perswade their Proselites they are the Tenets of the Reformation whereas the Reformation disclaims those Opinions as much as the Pope does And they do not poor People observe how many absurd and scandalous Doctrines we meet in their Casuists and Divines which when we reproach them with they answer It 's not the Doctrin of their Church but of some particular Doctors as if we might not with as much Justice as they answer the same Isaac Your Reflection is good and my discourse will fall to the ground if I do not prove that Principle which will be no hard task Let us imagine we are here a full Synod of Protestants Presbyterians Hugonots Lutherans Antitrinitarians Anabaptists Quakers and of all and each of our Congregations our Reformation is not any of these Congregations with an exclusion of the rest but all of them joyntly for whatsoever Congregation would say it self alone is the Reformation and no other would be hiss'd at by the rest and justly because that our Reformation imports two points essentially First a Profession of Christianity according to the Rule of the Word of God and a Detestation or Abjuration of Popish Errors and none of these Congregations but does both Ismael I know some of these Pharisee-like despise others and look upon them not as Reformed but as putrid Members but the Lord forbid I should be so void of Charity I see no just chalenge any can have to the Title of Reformation which all have not Isaac Let us ask this Synod by what Rule of Faith does the Reformation walk What must a Man believe for to be a true Reformed Protestants will say that Scripture and Apostolical Tradition but Protestants say of Papists and Presbytarians and Anabaptists say of Protestants that many humane Inventions are obtruded upon us as Apostolical Traditions that we have no way to discern the one from the other and consequently Tradition as being an unknown thing unto us cannot be our Rule others will say that Scripture and the indubitable Consequences out of it is our Rule all will grant this but then enters the Controversy if the Consequences of Lutherans be such and if the Consequences of Presbyterians be indubitable out of Scripture and each Congregation will say that their peculiar Tenets are indubitable Consequences out of Scripture and the rest must allow it to be true or deny such a Congregation to be of the Reformation Others will say that Scripture and the four first general Councils with the Apostles and Athanasius's Creed are our Rule of Faith but most of the Assembly will no more admit the four first than the subsequent Councils nor Athanasius's Creed more than that of Trent nor will the Quakers Socinians and others value the Apostles Creed But there is none of all the Assembly who will not admit Scripture that 's the pure written Word of God to be a sacred and full Rule of Faith because it 's replenished with divine Light and all heavenly instruction necessary for our Salvation And such as add as a part of our Rule of Faith the Apostles or Athanasius's Creed or the four first general Councils they will confess that all they contain is expressed in Gods written Word and are but a plainer or more distinct expression or declaration of the Contents of Scripture Ismael Truly I must grant you this that I have been often present at several discourses of Protestants with Papists and never could I hear a Protestant make Councils Tradition or any thing else the Test of their Discourse but only Scripture not but that I could hear them say and pretend in their Discourses that Apostolical Tradition and the four first Councils were for them against Popery but still their main strength and ultimate refuge was Scripture for whenever they harp upon that string of Tradition and Councels the Papists are visibly too hard for them and then they run to Scripture than which there is no plus ultra I have been also often at several discourses betwixt Protestant Presbyterians and our Brethren of other Congregations I have observed that the Protestant for to defend his Liturgy Rights and Ceremonies of the Church of England and her Episcopacy against the others could never defend himself by Scripture alone and plac'd his main Strength against them in Tradition Primitive Councils and ancient Fathers all which the other rejected and reproached the Protestant with Popery for making use of that Weapon that if they would stick to those Principles as their Rule of Faith they must admit many Tenets of Popery which they disavow that nothing but Scripture is a sufficient Warrant and Rule of Faith And I find by all I could ever well understand that 's the General apprehension and belief of all the Reformation that Scripture abundantly contains all we are obliged to believe and is our sole and only Rule of Faith and that our recourse to Tradition Councils Fathers c. are but shifts of some of our Doctors who being Non-plust in their particular Engagements and Sophistries patch the incoherency of their discourses with these rags of Popery Isaac I commend your Ingenuity but not that heat which transports you to check our Doctors for their Glosses and particular Doctrines upon Scripture which as the Manna relished of all sorts of Victuals which the Eater fancied admits several sences according to the different Spirits and measure of light that God gives to the Reader and it is undoubtedly the Spirit of the Reformation to follow what sense of it he likes best and not to check others following this or that as they please Lutherans Protestants
suffer Inquisitions Persecutions Excommunications and what not so among us you must believe Scripture as Interpreted by the Church of England or you are condemned by them you must believe Scripture as Interpreted by the Presbyterians or you are accursed by them you must believe as Anabaptists do or you are damn'd by them and not one Congregation among us but would Root all the others out of the World if it could and we do not fear that danger whereof St. Paul Gal. 5.15 warns us If we bite and devour one another let 's take heed we be not consumed one of another giving us likewise a wholsom advice in the same place how to prevent this Evil Stand fast in the Liberty wherewith Christ has made us free and be not intangled again with the Yoke of Bondage The World did groan under this heavy Yoke in Popery wherein our Rule of Faith was Scripture as Interpreted by the Pope and Church Scripture was kept from the hand of the flock No man permitted to give or believe any Interpretation or Sense of it but what the Pope Church and Fathers did approve Our Reason our Judgments our Consciences were Slaves under this Yoke until that God raised our glorious and blessed Reformers Luther Calvin Zuinglius Beza and others who took a Holy Liberty and gave us all Liberty for to Read and Interpret Scripture to believe no Doctrine but what we judged to be true Scripture To believe any Sense of it which we judged to be true tho contrary to all the World They took for their Rule of Faith Scripture and nothing else but Scripture as each one of them understood it this same Rule of Faith they left to us and a Holy Freedom and Liberty of our Judgments and Consciences that any man of sound Judgment may hold and believe whatever Sense of it he thinks to be true This therefore is the scope and end of my following Treatise that whereas our Rule of Faith as I will prove by the unanimous Consent of our whole reformed Church is Scripture or Gods Written Word as interpreted by each Person of sound Judgment that whereas by the Principles of our Reformation no Man is to be constrained to believe any Doctrine against his Judgment and Conscience otherwise why were not we left in Popery it is impious tyrannical and quite against the Spirit of the Reformation to force us by Acts of Parliament Decrees of Synods Invectives and Persecutions of indiscreet Brethren to embrace this or that Religion that every one ought to be permitted to believe what he pleases if you think Bigamy to be the Doctrine of Scripture If you think by Scripture there is one Nature and four Persons in God if you think Transubstantiation to be true if you judge by God's Words there 's neither Purgatory nor Hell finally whatever you think to be the true Sense of Scripture you are bound as a true Reformed Child to believe it that it is quite against the Spirit of Reformation to Censure oppose or blame the Doctrine or Tenets of any Congregation or of any Doctor of the Reformed Church because that any Doctrine professed by any Christian-Congregation whatever the Popish excepted or that ever was delivered by any Man of good Judgment of the Reformation since the beginning of it until this Day is as truly and really the Doctrine of the Reformation as the Figurative Presence or Kings Supremacy is Consequently Protestants are deservedly to be check'd for Persecuting Quakers Quakers for murmuring against Presbyterians these for their invectives against Anabaptists and Socinians All are very good and you may lawfully according to the Principles of our Reformation believe them or deny them This Evangelical Liberty of believing any thing which we judg to be the Sense of Scripture though all the rest of the World should Judge it to be a Blasphemy is the most distinctive sign of the Reformation from Popery for Papists are the Children of Agar the Slave they live in Bondage and Constraint to believe any Doctrine which the Pope and Church proposes to them and if a Learned Man or Vniversity should judge it to be contrary to Scripture he must submit his Judgment to that of the Pope or be condemn'd as an Heretick In our Reformation we are the Children of Sarah the free our Rule of Faith is Scripture as each Person of sound Judgment in the Church understands if we do not like the Doctrine of the Pope Church or Council we may gainsay them all and hold our own Sense of Scripture We enjoy the Prerogative of Rational Creatures we are lead by our own Reason which God has given us for our Conduct and are not like Beasts constrained to follow that of others We follow the Rule given us by S. Paul Rom. 14. He who Eats let him not despise him who does not Eat and who does not Eat let him not despise him who does Eat for God hath received him That 's to say he who believes let him not check him who does not believe as he does And he who does not Believe let him not blame him who does believe But let each one believe or not belive as he thinks best in the Lord This holy Liberty and freedom is the Spirit of God for where the Spirit of God is there is Liberty 2 Cor. 3. Says the great Apostle The Lord inspire to our Parliament that now sits upon a perfect and new settlement of Government and Religion to follow the Footsteps of our first renowned Reformers To enact that there may be no other Rule of Faith but that which we received from our Reformers and which is laid down for us in the 39 Articles of the Church of England That is Scripture as each one best understands it without regarding the Judgment Sense or interpretation of any but the pure Word of God as we understand it And to enact Penal Laws against any so bold and uncharitable as to censure or blame the Tenets of any Congregation be it Lutheranism Presbytery Arianism Judaism or Paganism Or any Doctrine whatever that any Man of sound Judgment thinks in his Conscience to be the Sense and Doctrine of Scripture Three things make me hope that this Treatise will be welcome to the well inclined and pious Reader of our Reformed Church First that there is not one Author quoted in this Book but our own Doctors Learned and Godly Children of the Reformation and this I observe that my Reader may know there 's not a jot of any Doctrine here but what is of the Reformatiâ—n and also advertise our Writers and School-Men how much they discredit our Reform'd Church by making so much use of Popish Doctors and Books in their Writings as if we had not great and learned Men of our own if we look into our Bishops and Ministers Libraries we shall meet with Books either of confessedly Papists or strongly suspected of Popery and you shall hardly meet in any of them the works of Luther
Presbyterians c. have all for their Rule of Faith Scripture which each of them Interprets in a different Sense Luther for the Real Protestants for the Figurative Presence Protestants for Episcopacy Presbyterians against it and so of others And tho' each esteems his own sence to be the best yet none is so bold as to say that others may not be saved in their own Sence of it or deny them to be true Children of the Reformation nay that Venerable Synod of Charenton as I quoted above has declared that the Lutherans tho' opposite to them in their chief Tenets are their beloved Brethren and have nothing Idolatrous or Superstitious in their manner of Divine Worship The fundamental reason of all this is that our Rule of Faith is but Scripture as each Person of sound Judgment understands it Ismael I grant all your Discourse as to this particular for it 's certain Lutherans will not admit Scripture as Interpreted by Pretestants but as Interpreted by themselves and so of each other Congregation Isaac If you admit our Rule is Scripture as each understands it then you must grant that our Doctrine of the Reformation is whatever Doctrine each Person of sound Judgment understands to be of Scripture and from this it appears plainly that my Principle whereat you boggl'd is true That whatever Doctrine is professed by any of our Congregations Synods Parliaments Doctors or particular Doctor of our Reformation is to be truly reputed and esteemed the Doctrine of our Reformation which Principle being true my discourse of Yesterday is undeniable That you may change Religion as often as you please and remain still a true Reformed Child Ismael But you have said that not only the Doctrine of each Congregation and Synod is the Doctrine of the Reformation but also whatever any one particular Doctor teaches and this seems to be very absurd Isaac It 's not so absurd as it 's true I 'll prove by the Principles of our Reformed Church by the testimonies of our most learned and best Doctors and Reformers and by reason and experience that the Doctrine of any particular Doctor among us has as much right to be called and esteemed the Doctrine of the Reformation as Protestancy Presbytery or Lutheranism for what is Lutheranism but the Judgment of Luther a particular Doctor against the whole Church of Rome What is Calvanism but what Calvin a particular Doctor judged to be the sence of Scripture against that same Church What is Quakerism but honest Naylor's Godly and Pious Sentiments upon Scripture It 's undeniably the Principle of our Reformed Church that our Rule of Faith is scripture as Interpreted not only by Synods or Congregations but by any Person of sound judgment in the Church No Congregation or Synod is to us a Rule of Faith because all are â—…llible but Gods written Word as each one understands it and if we do not like the sence of it delivered by any Council Synod or Congregation we may safely deny it Therefore our great Calvin says and proves with great Energy of Scripture and Reason that we are not obliged to the Decisions and Doctrine of any Council Synod or Congregation if after having examined Scripture we do find their Interpretation and Sense of it is conformable to the Word of God. Let Synods and Congregations say what they will if any particular Doctor thinks his own private Sence of it to be better he may stick to it against them all and be a good true Child of the Reformation as Arminius in Holland did withstand the Synods of Dordrecht and Delfe as Luther and Calvin did against Rome I will be free says our unparallel'd Proto-Apostle Luther I will not submit my self to the Authority of Councils Church Doctors Vniversities or Fathers but will teach and preach whatever I think to be true Did ever any Apostle speak with more Courage And the blessed Man acted with no less he knew full well the whole stream of Antiquity Doctors Fathers and Councils were against him as he confesses himself and did not care a rush for them all Lay aside says he call Arms of Orthodox Antiquity of Schools of Divinity Authority of Fathers Councils Popes and Consent of Ages we receive nothing but Scripture but so that we must have the Authority of Interpreting it Nor was it only Luther and Calvin spoke thus but all our first blessed Reformers and why because our Rule of Faith is Scripture not as interpreted by the Church of England France will not admit it nor as interpreted by the Quakers the Anabaptists and Independants will not hear it nor as interpreted by Luther Calvin rejects it nor as interprèted by Calvin Thorndike and Bramhall will not yield to it nor will Stillingfleet stand to their Interpretation nor others to that of Stillingfleet Finally our Rule of Faith is Scripture not as interpreted by any but as each Congregation Synod particular Doctor or Man of sound Judgment Interprets it and consequently whatever Doctrine any man of sound Judgment judges to be of Scripture is to be esteem'd the Doctrine of the Reformation and you may safely believe it if you like it and remain still as truly a Reformed Child as the proudest Protestant of England Ismael Can you prove that our Rule of Faith is Scripture as any particular Doctor or Person of sound Judgment understands it Isaac Behold how convincingly first we have heard Luther quoted but now say We receive nothing but Scripture but so as that we must have the Authority for to Interpret it Hear him again The Governours and Pastors have Power to teach but the Sheep must give their Judgment whether they propose the Voice of Christ or of Strangers And again Christ has taken from the Bishops Councils and Pastors the right of judging of Doctrine and given it to all Christians in General and the Rule is Scripture as each one will think fit to interpret it And consequently to this we have heard him say above I will be free and will not submit to Doctors Councils or Pastors but will teach whatever I think to be true Barlow The Apostles have given to each particular the Right and Power of Interpreting and Judging by his inward Spirit what is true it is needless that either Man or Angel Pope or Council should instruct you the Spirit working in the Heart and Scripture are to each particular Person most assured Interpreters Blison Bishop of Winchester says the same The People must be Discerners and Judges of what is Taught Our Religion has no other Rule of Faith says our French Reformation by the Mouth of Du Moulin Drelincourt and the Holy Synod of Charenton but the written Word of God as interpreted by us Lastly says the Church of England We have no other Rule of Faith but Scripture as each Person of sound Judgment in the Church understands it and what is proved by it And again in the Catholick Doctrine of the Church
can you say I beat you from all Religion when I directly perswade you to follow the Rule of Faith of our Reformation Scripture as each person of sound judgment understands it let this be your Religion if you will be a true Reformed whatever you judge in your conscience to be true let the Church of England or France or any other say and believe what they will you are to believe but what you judge by Scripture to be true and this is the Religion of the Reformation Ismael I would gladly know if it be lawful to chop or change the Text Isaac It 's the Doctrine of the Reformation that you cannot because God has forbid to add to or take away from his word and therefore we condemn the Papists for their Tradition obtruded upon the Flock as the Word of God It 's also the Doctrine of the Reformation and the practice of our best Reformers when the Text does not speak clear enough that for to refute Popery and establish our own Doctrine we may add or diminish a word or two which is not to change the Word of God but to make it speak more expresly as when Luther had a mind to prach Justification by Faith alone finding the Text said but Man is justified by Faith he added the word Alone and made the Text very clear against Popery which formerly was somewhat obscure Zuinglius being to teach the Figurative presence of Christ in the Sacrament found the Text This is my Body to be too pat against his Doctrine and instead of Is put in This signifieth The Church of England being to preach the Kings Spiritual Supremacy could not convince the obstinate Papist by the Original Text which said 1 Pet. 2. submit your selves unto every humane creature for the Lord's sake whether it be the King as excelling or to c. But in King Edwards time they altered one word and made the Text thus submit your selves to every Ordinance of Man whether it be to the King as being the chief head and the following impressions of the Bible in the year 1557. and 79. say To the King as supreame And so the true Doctrine is clearly convinc'd out of Scripture as also the lawfulness of Priests Marriage for the Text before the Reformation said 1 Cor. 9. have we not power to lead about a woman sister and now our Bibles say have we not power to lead about a Wife being our Sister hence it 's evident according to the Doctrine and practice of our Reformation that when you have a mind to establish a Doctrine which you judge to be true you may change the Text and make it speak to your sense and meaning provided you judge your sense to be true Ismael What do you think of Justifying Faith Does Faith alone justify us Isaac It 's the Doctrine of the Reformation that without charity it cannot because St. Paul says 1 Cor. 13. If I have Faith so as to move mountains and no Charity I am nothing It 's also the Doctrine of the Reformation that it is impious and wicked to say Faith alone without Charity does not justify this is Scipture as interpreted by Luther a man of sound judgment Who say quoth Luther that Faith alone though perfect it be cannot Justify without Charity say impiously and wicked because Faith alone without any good works doth justifie Believe which Doctrine you please both are of the Reformation Ismael Luther was insolent in checking the Doctrine of St. Paul. Isaac Probably he did not reflect that it was the Doctrine of the Apostle and if you will have it to be a Check of St. Paul Luther will answer for himself Be it says he that the Church Augustine or other Doctors also Peter and Paul nay and an Angel from Heaven should teach otherwise than as I teach yet my Doctrine is such that it seteth forth Gods Glory I know I teach no Humane but Divine Doctrine It 's the Doctrine of the Reformation that Faith alone without any good Works and notwithstanding all Sins you are Guilty of doth justifie you This is Scripture as Interpreted by Luther who says nothing can damn you but Incredulity as nothing but Faith can save you of Whitaker Wotton Fulk and Beza whose words I related in our precedent Dialogue which I believe you remember and I need not repeat It 's also the Doctrine of the Reformation that good Works are meritorious of Grace and Glory Hooker and Harmonia confess say it 's the Doctrine of Scripture and what any person of sound Judgment judges to be the Doctrine of Scripture he may believe it for this is our Rule of Faith. It 's likewise the Doctrine generally of all our Church that good Works are not at all meritorious Tindall called by Fox a Man of God and a constant Martyr judges this to be so true that in his Treatise de Mammona iniquitatis he says Christ himself did not by all his good Works merit the Glory And tho' the Scripture says expresly he did Calvin affirms that it 's a foolish curiosity to examine and a rash proposition to say Christ did Merit It 's the Doctrine of the Reformation that tho' good Works be not meritorious nor have not the least Influence in our Justification or Salvation yet they are absolutely needful for both in as much as that true Faith cannot be without good Works because they are the Marks and Signs of a living Faith by whch alone we are Saved this is the Judgment of the Church of England expressed in the 11 and 12 Articles of the 39 and of Melancthon in locis Commun de Bonis operibus and you may believe it You may also believe and it 's the Doctrine of the Reformation that good Works are so far from being needful that they are prejudicious and hurtful to our Salvation and the best way to be Saved is to do no good Work at all this is Scripture as Interpreted by Illiricus Flacius Amsdorsius quoted in Act. Colloq Aldeburg pag. 205. and 299. and Luther was so deeply perswaded of this truth tho that Christ said If thou wilt enter into the Kingdom of Heaven keep the Commandment Luther says it 's an obstacle to our Salvation to keep them Where it is said quoth he that Faith in Christ doth indeed justify us but that it is necessary also to keep the Commandments there Christ is denyed and Faith abolish'd because that which is proper to Faith alone is attributed if the Commandments And again says he if Faith be accompanied with good Works it 's no true Faith that it may justify it must be alone without any good Works This is Scripture as interpreted by such eminent and sound Men and consequently the Doctrine of the Reformation and who doubts but that any Doctrine of the Reformation may be believed Hence forward when you hear the Preacher exhort you to good Works you may believe him if you please
and have a Mind to spend your Monys because he Preaches the Doctrine of the Reformation or you may laugh at him and believe not a word he says because he Preaches against the Doctrine of the Reformation Ismael These are dangerous and scandalous Tenets destructive of Piety and Christianity and let Luther and those Authors you quoted say what they please the Reformation nor no honest Man will ever believe such abominable Doctrine Isaac I do not say that the Children of the Reformation are obliged to believe them They may believe as you do that all are wicked Tenets But if Luther and the others cited judge in their Conscience these Tenets to be the Doctrine of Scriptures and if Peter John or James like their Interpretation I say they may according to the Principles of our Reformation believe them and be as truly Reformed Children as you for our Rule of Faith is Scripture as each Person of sound Judgment understands it and in believing those Tenets because they judge them to be the Doctrine of Scripture they stick fast to and follow our Rule of Faith Why is Figurative Presence and the Kings Supremacy the Doctrine of the Reformation tho' denied by Papists Lutherans and Presbyterians but because the Protestants judg it's the Doctrine of Scripture If therefore those great Authors I quoted and any other with them judge those Tenets to be the Doctrine of Scripture they can be justly called the Doctrine of the Reformation Must Protestants be forced against their Judgments to deny real Presence and Supremacy because Lutherans say it's wicked Doctrine And why must Luther Illiricus Flaccius and others be forced to deny those Tenets tho' Protestants or Papists judge them to be damnable Let each one believe what he thinks to be the Doctrine of Scripture and he will still be a true Reformed Child Ismael Does not our Reformation teach that 't is possible to all Men assisted with God's Grace to keep the Commandments Isaac This is the Doctrine of the Church of England and consequently of the Reformation It 's also the Doctrine of the Reformation delivered out of Scripture as Interpreted by Luther Calvin Willet and several others that it 's impossible to any man assisted with what Grace soever to keep the Commandments None has ever yet says our great Calvin and God has decreed none shall ever keep the Commandments Again The Law and Commandments were given us to no other end but that we should be damn'd by them inasmuch that it is impossible for Vs to do what they command The same Doctrine is taught by Luther in several places of his Works by Willet and by our Brethren the Gomarists of Holland and many of our French Synods Believe which you please both Doctrines are of the Reformation It 's also the Doctrine of Luther and Calvin that God does not cast men into Hell because their sins deserve it nor save men because they merit it but meerly because he will have it for He crowns those who have not deserved it says Luther and he punishes those who have not deserved it 't is Gods Wrath and Severity to damn the one 't is Gods Grace and Mercy to save the other Calvin also Men are damn'd for no other cause but because God will have it so he is the cause and Author of their Damnation their Damnation is decreed by God when when they are in their Mothers Womb because he will have it so this is also the belief of our Gomarists in Holland of many French Churches and of several learned Calvinists though the Church of England denies this Doctrine none will dare say it is not the Doctrine of the Reformation because it is Scripture as Interpreted by such eminent men of our Church Ismael I will never believe such execrable Doctrines nor will I ever be of any Congregation which believes them Isaac I do not advise you to believe them but to give others leave to believe them if they think them to be the Doctrine of Scripture as Luther Calvin Willet Gomarists and others do You must not if you be a true Reformed Child hinder any man from believing nor be displeased with him for believing what he Judges in his Conscience to be the Doctrine of Scripture for this is our Rule of Faith. Will not you be of the Congregation and Religion of those who follow Scripture as their Rule of Faith and Believe what they Judge in their Conscience to be the Doctrine of Scripture Ismael Yes I will and am of such a Congregation for this is the Rule of Faith of the Reformation Isaac Why then you must be of the same Congregation with the Gomarists Luther Calvin and the others who believe those which you call execrable Doctrines because they follow Scripture as they understand and believe those Doctrines because they Judge them to be of Scriture You both follow the same Rule one goes one way and the other another and both are of the Reformation The Church of England understands by Scripture that God is not the Author nor cause of Sin that he does not force us to Sin who doubts but that this is therefore the Doctrine of the Reformation But Calvin Brentius Beza and several others understand by Scripture That God is the cause and Author which forces our Will to Sin That Man and the Devil are but Gods Instruments to commit it That Murthers Incests Blasphemies c. are the Works of God that he makes us commit them And who doubts but this also is the Doctrine of the Reformation being Scripture as Interpreted by such eminent and sound Judgment God says Calvin directs moves inclines and forces the Will of Man to Sin insomuch that the power and efficacy of Working is wholly in him Man nay and Satan when he impells us being only Gods Instruments which he uses for to make us Sin. Zuinglius Willet Beza teach the same Sixth Dialogue ISMAEL I am weary of hearing such horrid Blasphemies my Heart trembles to hear you say that such abominable Tenets may be believed according to our Rule of Faith and Principles of the Reformation I beseech you let me hear no more of such stuff I conceive very well that Mens Judgments and Consciences are not to be constrain'd to believe or deny this or that Tenet because the Pope or his Infallible forsooth Church will have it so Isaac And must they be constrain'd to deny or believe because the fallible Church of England or France will have it so Ismael No I do not say they must have Patience and hear me speak a while I say that Scripture must be our Rule of Faith and not any Pope or Church or Congregation and that we are not to be forced by any to believe but what we understand to be true by Scripture and that if we Judge by Scripture any Doctrine to be false and contrary to Gods Word we must not be forced to believe it But we must
not abuse this Liberty That we should have Liberty for to believe or deny Supremacy Figurative Presence Communion in one or both Kinds and such other inferiour Truths controverted among Christians and that each Congregation may in such Articles believe as it understands by Scripture to be true may pass and it 's practised in our Reformed Churches But that we should run so far as to have Liberty by our Rule of Faith to believe or deny the Fundamental and Chief Articles of Christianity as the Trinity Incarnation Divinity of Christ amp c. That Liberty ought not to be given Our Reformation very wisely and piously permits the Lutherans to believe one thing the Presbyterians another the Protestants another and so of the rest And all are true Reformed Children because each of them believes as they Judge by Scripture to be true But the Reformation has never given nor never will give Liberty to interpret Scripture against the fundamental Article of Christianity We must be moderate and keep our rambling Fancies within Compass and if any should judge and interpret Scripture in favour of any scandalous and abominable Tenets against Christianity and good Manners he must be checked and not commended This Moderation the Church of England uses and will never permit to the contrary Isaac I perceive a great deal of Popish Blood to run in your Veins and that if you and your Church of England were in Power at the beginning of our Reformation we should never have had a Luther Calvin Beza or such other noble and renowned Reformers By what I gather from your discourse I do not see the breadth of an Inch's difference betwixt the Church of Rome and you and your Church of England for the Church of Rome will not stick to grant that Gods Word alone is her Rule of Faith but so that none must believe any sense of it but as she believes it nor Interpret any Text but receive her Interpretation of it The Church of England has Scripture for her Rule of Faith and gives us Liberty for to Interpret Understand and Believe some Text of it as each one thinks best and so permits Presbyterians to deny Episcopacy Lutherans to deny Figurative Presence c. and confesses they are all her Brethren of the Reformation but she will give no Liberty at all for to Interpret other Texts but all must understand them as she does or all must Hereticks and damn'd Men No that Text My Father and I are one must be Interpreted to signifie the Unity In Nature of the Father and Son as the Church of England believes none must Interpret it otherwise So that the difference betwixt the Popish Church and that of England is the first gives us no Liberty at all the second gives us some Liberty the first robs us of all the second but the one half The Rule of Faith in Popery is Scripture as Interpreted by the Pope and Councils the Rule of Faith in England as to some Articles is Scripture as Interpreted by the Church of England and as to other Articles Scripture as each person of sound Judgment understands it And thus Protestants are but half Papists and half Reformed and both these ingredients will never make a good compound Let any unbyass'd and impartial Man Judge if the Church of England proceeds justly in this For if our Rule of Faith be Scripture as each Person of sound Judgment understands it as she mentions in her 39. Articles and as the whole Reformation believes if we are not to be constrained to believe any Church Council or Mans sense of Scripture if we do not Judge by the Word of God it 's true by what Authority Rule or Reason can the Church of England give me Liberty to understand and believe some Texts as I please and deny me Liberty for to understand and believe others as I Judge by Scripture they ought to be understood I pray observe well this Discourse here are Luther Calvin Beza Zuinglius and our other first Reformers they Interpret some Texts against the Doctrine of Rome and others against the Doctrine of the Church of England They are praised for the first and esteemed Apostolical Reformers because without any regard of what the Church of Rome said they freely taught and believed what they Judged by Scripture to be true why must not they be praised and esteemed true Reformers also for not regarding what the Church of England or any other says but teach the impossibility of Gods Commandments the sufficiency of Faith alone and all those other Tenets which you so much mislike since they Judge by Scripture that to be the true Doctrine Are they bound to submit their Judgments to the Church of England more than to that of Rome Ismael But in those Tenets they do not only contradict the Church of England but all Christian Churches and Congregations for all will say those are wicked and scandalous Doctrines Isaac And if they Judge by Scripture that those Tenets are not such but found and good Doctrine may not they believe them tho' all the World and ten Worlds did gainsay them Is not Scripture our Rule of Faith and are we to regard what any Church or all Churches say further than we find by Scripture that they say well But being these Tenets which you call horrid Blasphemies displease you I 'll change my discourse and because I see you are Popishly inclin'd I will shew you how by the Principles of our Reformation you can be as good a Papist as the Pope one Principle excepted wherein you must dissent from the Church of Rome if you intend to remain a true Reformed Child Ismael You promise too much and more than I desire to know I don't desire to have any Communication with the Pope I know by the Writings of our Authors what kind of Beast he is Isaac By your favour you may believe the Popes are Worthy Honest and Godly Men many Doctors of our Reformation and our Travellers to the Court of Rome give this Testimony of them You may also believe that Popes and Cardinals are Knaves and Atheists who look on Scripture as a Romance and deny the Incarnation of Christ for Calvin says so and would never have said it if it had not been true But beware not to speak so in Rome or they 'll lodge you where Honest Taylor the Quaker was nor in Spain or they 'll stop your Mouth with an Inquisition faggot Ismael I care not what the Pope or Cardinals are but I would gladly know what Religion and Congregation you are of for whereas you are my immediate Instructer it behoves me to know what Religion you have Isaac As to my Religion I doubt not but that my Readers will be divided in their Judgments of me if a Papist reads me he 'll swear I am an Atheist but I hope he will not pretend to be infallible as his Pope if a Protestant he 'll say I am a Papist and that my drift
Mary why did not you put in also Elizabeth Mother of the great Baptist and the Angel Gabriel as well as Michael Ismael I know not indeed Isaac Nor do I know if it be not because that Elizabeth and Gabriel made the Popish Ave Maria as Scripture relates but can you tell as the Church of England put in your Kalender St. George St. Andrew and St. David Patrons of England Scotland and Wales why did not she put in St. Patrick Patron of Ireland Ismael I can't tell What may be the reason think you Isaac I know not if it be not that he forfeited his place for his Purgatory for tho the others were as deep in Popery as he if we believe the Papists but the Parliament pass'd an Act of Indemnity for England Scotland and Wales after the Kings return to his Kingdoms and thereby the sin of Popery was forgiven to their Patrons and no Act of Indemnity was past for Ireland whereby Patrick is still guilty if it be not that the Seven Champions of Christendom tell us St. Patrick was St. George his Footman and it was not thought good manners to put him in the same rank with his Master Ismael For shame if not for pitty forbear I cannot endure to fully Sacred things with profane Ralleries the Kalender is a holy institution of the Church and ought to be reverenc'd Isaac And so is Episcopacy Surplices Bells Organs and Corner Caps yet I hope you will give Presbyterians Anabaptists Quakers c. leave to laugh at them and be still as good Children of the Reformation as you if you esteem them to be Sacred and Holy reverence and honour them I commend you for it if others Judge otherwise let them follow their humour each one as he fancies says the Fellow kissing his Com this is the holy Liberty of the Reformation Scripture as each one understands it Ismael Let us return to our last discourse how is it possible that those Tenets of Popery â—…ould be the Doctrin of the Reformation whereâ—â— we see the Church of England so severely perâ—â—ecute the Professors of them Isaac Do you think a Doctrin is not of the Reformation because it 's denyed by the Church of England or because she persecutes the Proâ—essors of it do not they persecute all Non-conforâ—ists as well as Popery persecution is no proof of a Doctrin to be bad it 's but the effect of a blind zeal armed with power for to know cerâ—ainly if a Doctrin be of the Reformation you must try it by our Test or Rule of Faith which is the written Word of God and whatever any man of sound Judgment of a sincere and humble heart judges to be contained in Scripture or â—n indubitable consequence out of it that man may believe that Doctrin let all others Judge of it as they list and by so believing will be a true Child of the Reformation wherefore since that the Church of France that of England in Edward the VI 's time Luther Melancthon Grotius and the other Authors I quoted do Judge Transubstantiation Popes Supremacy and Communion in one kind to be the Doctrin of Scripture we must call it the Doctrin of the Reformation and if you judge as they did you may believe the Doctrin and be still of the Reformation as well as they Ismael Can you shew me any other Tenet of Popery which you can call the Doctrin of the Reformation Isaac Alas you can hardly shew me any Tenet of Popery but what is it's Doctrin what Doctrin more Popish than that of Confession and Absolution from sins yet it 's as truly the Doctrin of the Reformation as figurative Presence for not only Lobechius Altamerus Sacerius and Melancthon says it 's a Sacrament but the Church of England in our Common-Prayer Book declares that Priests have not only the power of declaring their sins to be forgiven to the Penitents but also the power of forgiving them and sets down the form of Absolution which the Minister is to use Our Lord Jesus Christ who left power to the Church to absolve all sinners which truly repent of his mercy forgive thee and thine offences and I by his Authority committed unto me do absolve thee from all thy sins The Minister of the Diocess of of Lincoln in their Survey of the Book of Common Prayers checkt this Doctrine as Popery and petitioned to have it blotted out but could not prevail whereby we are given to understand it 's the Doctrine of the Reformation It 's Popery we say to call extream Uuction Confirmation and Holy Order of Priest-hood Sacraments and who can justly deny all this to be the Doctrine of the Re-formation for Calvin says I confess the Disciples of Christ did use Exâ—ream Vnction as a Sacrament I am not says he of the opinion of those who judge it was only a Meâ—â—cine for corporal diseases Calvin also and with him our Common Prayer Book and all our Divines say a Sacrament is nothing else but a Visible sign of the invisible Grace we receive by â—t and they say with Pouel Hooker and others that this definition fits exactly Confirmation wherefore the Ministers of the Diocess of Lincoln checkt the Common Prayer Book for giving the Definition of a Sacrament to Confirmation Melancthon Bilsom Hooker and Calvin expresly teach that the Order of Priesthood is a Sacrament And when men of so eminent Judgment of our Reformation teach this to be the Doctrine of Scripture who doubts but that it is of the Reformation Ismael By this you destroy the Doctrine of the Reformation of two Sacraments only Is Destroy it God forbid Because the Church of England says there are but two Sacraments I say it 's the Doctrin of the Reformation there are but two and because so many eminent Men judge by Scripture there are more I say it 's the Doctrin of the Reformation there are more that 's to say six Baptism Confirmation Eucharist Pennance Extream Unction and Holy Order and very likely our Bishops and Ministers for their Wives sake will not stick to grant that Matrimony also is a Sacrament Ismael But can you say that Prayers to Saints and Images Prayer for the dead and Purgatory are not meer Popery and in no wise the the Doctrine of Reformation Isaac Without doubt those Tenets are Popery but all the World knows the Lutherans use Images in their Churches and pray before them and the Holy Synod of Charenton has declared as was said in our first Dialogue that the Lutherans have nothing of Superstition or Idolatry in their manner of Divine Worship this is also the Doctrine of Jacobus Andreas Brachmanus Kemnitius Luther and Brentius quoted by Beza and why should not a Doctrine Judged by such eminent Men to be of Scripture be called the Doctrin of the Reformation Prayers for the dead and Purgatory is Popery confessedly but alas it is taught expresly