Robbers you haue greater stoare And who were they I praye you emong the Popes that committed that heynous facte Hildebrand you tel vs againe was a Church Robber Doubtelesse this poore Pope hath offended you very muche whiche argueth he was a good Pope And were there no mo Churche Robbers amonge the Popes but Hildebrand Cough vp M. Iewel voide the malicious humour of your stomake Of so many Churche robbers as are in that rewe of Bishops name vs but one more For vpon so great a vaunt your Reader may happely thinke that you could name some other besides Hildebrand But suppose that this Hildebrand had ben no Churche Robber as in deede he was none and you could not iustly haue charged him therwith had you not put your felicitie in sclaūdering good and vertuous men where then might a man so easly haue found I say not so many Churchrobbers as you tel vs of but only one emōg al the Bishops of Rome Wel yet of Periured persons we shal find great numbers that you might not be found a sclaunderer in that point So many Periured persons how wel soeuer you haue acquited your selfe of the former Go to then tel vs how many Periured persons occupied that roume and who they were You tel vs once againe that Hildebrand was a Periured person Verely you are much beholden to Hildebrād but specially to that wicked cōuenticle of naughtie Bishops assembled by the Emperour at Brixia who most vniustly sclaūderd that godly Pope For had they not ben you had lost a faire rhetorical lie I should haue said a foule cōclusion But yet perhaps there were emong the Popes many Mankillers and many Renegates So many mākillers and Renegates whom if you can name to your Reader you may peraduenture seeme to him at the lest in this a true reporter and not a malicious sclaūderer Who then were these so many Mankillers so many Renegates Of likelyhod you know many such or els you would not so stoutly auouch it Tel on Perge mentiri name vs them Yet once againe you tel vs that Hildebrand was a Mankiller Hildebrand was a Renegate But what was there none but Hildebrand M. Iewel Among two hundred Popes and vpward can you finde none that was an Aduouterer a Churchrobber a Periured person a Mankiller a Renegate but only Pope Hildebrand And yet you tel vs that of men of these qualities there haue ben such a number in that rewe of Bishoppes that of euery sorte it were or elles you lye sauing other mennes honestie an easy matter to finde many Are they now so suddainly vanished out of sight that to saue your poore honestie you can bring vs forth none but onely Hildebrand And howe can Pope Hildebrand whom most vniustly and vpon the manifest sclaunder of his enemies you haue here accused make vp the number of your so many Aduouterers so many Church robbers so many Periured persons so many Mankillers so many Renegates Are you not ashamed thus notoriously and withal most sclaunderously to belye that blessed Succession of Bishops which hath through the miraculous working of God continewed without interruption from S. Peters time vntil these our dayes Leaue leaue M. Iewel these vaine Rhetorical lying and sclaunderous conclusions Goe simply and plainely to the matter tel no more then you are wel hable to proue Learne rather to speake wel of your forefathers then with such impudencie to diffame and speake il of them who are departed this world in the vnitie of the Churche and peace of Christe And whereas you charge me with saying that ye haue no Succession no Bishoppes no Churche bicause ye haue no Idolatours Necromancers Heretikes and such like and then would seeme to salue the matter againe with an I trow I trow it be no good manner and lesse honestie to saie that of your aduersarie which by no colour possibly you can pike out of his wordes How be it I forgeue it you for that euery man may easily perceiue it to be but a pretie sleight of your arte whiche as I trow most menne cal the arte of lying Iewel But S. Paule saith Rom. 10. faith commeth not by succession but by hearing and hearing commeth not of legacie or enheritance from Bisshop to Bishop but of the vvorde of God Harding If faith come of hearing and hearing come of Gods worde I aske you whether the hearing shal endure for euer or no I saie it shal bicause it is written Math. 28. Luc. 1. I am with you al daies to the worldes end and al generations shal cal me blessed and Christ the sonne of Dauid shal reigne in the house of Iacob for euer This can not be but where that hearing is Now if hearing endure for euer seing hearing was at the first by the preaching of Bishops I saie that the Succession of Bishops endureth for euer Ephes 4. For God hath geuen pastours and doctours vnto his Church saith S. Paule vntil we shal al meete in vnitie of faith which shal be at the seconde comming of Christe Therefore it is not only not true that the hearing of the faith preached doth any thing withstand the perpetual Succession of Bishops but rather the Succession is proued thereby For as Christe instituted first the preaching of the faith by the Apostles who were also Bishops and as after the Apostles they were Bishoppes who chiefely continued the preaching of the same faith euen so vnto the worldes ende there must lacke no Bishoppes by whom the same maie stil be preached For Isaie saith Isai 62. Vpon thy walles ô Ierusalem I haue sette watchemen no daye nor night shal they holde their peace Suche watchemen haue ben alwaies in the Churche of Rome suche M. Iewel can not recken to haue ben alwaies in his Churche Therefore the preaching of the faith hath ben in the Romaine Church and not in his Iewel They are not alvvaies godly that succede the godly Harding Much lesse are they godly who forsake the godly But our question is not of godlinesse but of true faith which may be where godlinesse is not For they that preached the true faith for enuie against S. Paule Philip. cap. 1. had the true faith yet were they not godly Iewel Manasses succeded Ezechias Harding And therefore Christe was as wel borne of Manasses line as of Ezechias For albeit the godlinesse were not like in the men yet Christe wrought then the mysterie of his Birth and now he worketh the preseruation of his faith as wel by the euil as by the good Iewel Hieroboam succeded Dauid Harding 3. Reg. 12. There you were deceiued M. Iewel Roboam succeded Dauid Hieroboam diuided the kingdome and the inheritance of the Succession of Dauid But God saith often times that he kepte some of Dauids line in his throne 3. Reg. 11. et 15. et 4. Reg. 8. that a candel might remaine to his seruant Dauid for euer God surely accompted the line of Hieroboam no succession
doctrine Where the thing you treate of is not in controuersie betwene you and vs and where you speake not with affection to ouercome Strange manner of vttering the faith we graunt some tymes ye vtter truth But the manner of vtterance of your Faith is straunge to Christen eares who haue bene accustomed to heare Credo in Deum Credo in Iesum Christum Credo in spiritum Sanctum I beleeue in God I beleeue in Iesus Christe I beleeue in the holy Ghoste That other forme of wordes whiche you vse soundeth not so Christianlike I beleeue there is a God I beleeue that Iesus Christ is the Sonne of the Father I beleeue that the holy Ghoste is God Although this forme of wordes doo expresse a right Faith yet being suche as maie be vttered by Deuilles and hath bene alwaies vttered by Heretikes their ministers the auncient and holy Fathers haue liked better the olde fourme and manner after whiche euerie Christen man saith I beleeue in God I beleeue in Iesus Christe I beleeue in the holy Ghoste For this importeth a signification of Faith with Hope and Charitie that other of Faith only which the deuilles haue and tremble as S. Iames saith wherein as in many other thinges Iacob 2. these Defenders resemble them S. Augustine in sundry places putting a difference betwen these two formes of wordes vpon S. Iohn alleging S. Paules wordes To one that beleeueth in him who iustifieth the wicked his Faith is imputed to righteousnes Rom. 3. In Iohan. Tract 29. To beleue in God what is it demaundeth what is it to beleeue in him It is by his aunswer Credendo amare credendo diligere credendo in eum ire eius membris incorporari with beleeuing to loue him with beleeuing to goe into him and to be incorporate in his members that is to be made a member of his body In an other place he saith speaking of Christe De verbis Domini Serm. 61 it It forceth muche whether a man beleeue that he is Christ and whether he beleeue in Christ. For the Deuilles beleeued that he was Christ neither for al that beleeued the Deuilles in Christ For he beleeueth in Christe who both trusteth in Christe and loueth Christe For if he haue Faith without Hope and Loue he beleeueth that Christe is he beleeueth not in Christe So he that beleeueth in Christe with beleeuing into him shal Christe come and by some meane he is vnited vnto him and is made a member in his body Whiche can not be done excepte there come also both Hope and Charitie Thus S. Augustine The same doctrine he vttereth writing vpon the 77. Psalme By this thou seest â—â—â—â—ed I blâ—me not their 〈◊〉 dâ—sâ—â—â— the Trinitie not their Profâ—sâ—ion of the CoÌ„mon Creede as M. Iewell calleth it but only I seeme beâ—ter to allowâ— the auncient and vsual manner of vttering the Beleefe whiche for good reason hath euer seemed to the learned Fathers more commendable Reason and consideration of duetie would that a Minister of Gods worde should be a fraide to vtter so great and so manifest vntruthes vnto his liege Soueraine But of like some wil saie he wil amende that faulte in other partes of his Epistle to her Maiestie specially sith that he allegeth nothing but directeth the Reader vnto the place where it is to be founde by his quotation noted in the margent whiche hath at least some colour of vpright dealing and being founde false declareth an impudent falshod I would wish that for truthes sake al would reade and conferre and iudge of the oddes betwen vs bothe First thus he writeth Iewel The maine grounde of his vvhole Plea is this that the Bishop of Rome vvhaâ— so 〈◊〉 it â—â—al like him to determine in iudgemeÌ„t can neuer â—rrâ— Fâ—â— directioÌ„ of the Râ—â—der he quoteth thus Câ—sus fo 334. b Harding What he meaneth by his terme Plea I wote not ne care not I pleade not for right of any temporal thing Neither am I a lawier as he knoweth 〈◊〉 emploie my studie of Diuinitie to defendâ— the. Catholique Faâ—th and to detecte his falshod that Godâ— people be not by him and his felowes dangerously seduced The thing whereat he scoffeth for these wordes what so euer it shal like him to determine be scorneful wordes is not so vttered by me as he reporteth Who liste to see what I saie for so muche as the booke of my Confutation is not alwaies at handâ— thus it is The Pope succedeth Peter in auctoritie and power Confut. Fol. 334. b For whereas the shepe of Christe continewe to the worldes ende he is not wise that thinketh Christe to haue made a shepeherd teÌ„porarie for a time ouer his perpetual flocke Then what shepeherdly endoument our Lorde gaue to the first shepeherde at the institution of the shepeherdly office of the Churche that is he vnderstanded to haue geuen ordinarily to euery successour To Peter he gaue that he obteined by his praier made to the Father that his Faith should not faile Againe to him he gaue grace Luca. 22. that to performe the performance whereof at him he required to wit that he confirmed and strengthened his brethren Wherefore the grace of stedfastnes of faith and of confirming the wauering Hovv aÌ„d vvherin the Pope erreth not â—e neuer erred and doubteful in the Faith euery Pope obteineth of the holy Ghoste for the benefite of the Churche And so the Pope although he maie erre by personal errour in his owne priuate iudgement as a man and as a particular doctour in his owne opinion yet as he is Pope the successour of Peter the Vicare of Christe in earth the shepeherd of the vniuersal Churche in publike iudgement in deliberation and definitiue sentence he neuer erreth nor neuer erred For when so euer he ordeineth or determineth any thing by his high bishoply auctoritie intending to binde Christen menne to performe or beleeue the same he is alwaies gouerned and holpen with the grace and fauour of the holy Ghoste Answer M. Iewel to this if ye can Certainely hitherto ye haue not answered As for that you bring against it in your pretensed Defence there is no graue or learned man of your side that is not ashamed of it In that game of scoffing I doo gladly yelde you the garlande Your greatest Doctours there are Alphonsus de Castro and Erasmus menne of our age As for Erasmus it were easie to Answer him but here I thinke his tale not worthe the Answering Mary Alphonsus saith somewhat to your purpose if the tale whiche you make him to tel were his owne Certainely if he once wrote it when he beganne first to write afterwards with better aduise he reuoked it For in the bookes of the later printes those woordes whiche you reherse are not founde Thus you saie Defence pag. â—â—5 AlphoÌ„sus de haeresiae buâ— li. 1. cap. 4. Alphonsus de Castro one of M. Hardinges owne special Doctours saith Non dubitamus an Haereticum
alleged For pride is no substance nor creature at al. Man only in his vnderstanding considereth it as somewhat whereas it is only a defecte and failing from humilitie For God neuer made vice Pride is a vice and therefore 〈…〉 But what shal a man saie to this fellow When the name of Substance seemeth to make for him then it standeth properly as the Philosophers vse the worde which is in Greeke 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 but when it seemeth to make against him then it standeth for grace faith wordes and Sacramentes which in some writers are named Substance as the diuines somtimes vse the terme whereto the Greeke terme Hypostasis answereth as S. Paule vseth it Heb. 11. How the Church is resolued in doubtful cases The truth is that seing wordes for the more parte are doubteful ambiguous and subiect to cauilles Christ hath not planted his Church in such sorte vpon wordes that his faithful members should thereby be diuided into many sectes For as he considering our infirmitie lefte vnto vs his holy wil conceiued in such wordes as menne vse in their common speache he lefte also with those wordes a high Pastor Iohan. 21. Luc. 22. by whom we should be fed for whose faith he prayed and his prayer is heard To which chiefe Pastor he gaue power and commaundement to strengthen and cōfirme his brethren So that it is in dede litle worth to hange of syllables and letters but it behoueth vs alwaies to seeke for the meaning of the worde And bicause we should neuer agree among our selues vpon wordes Math. 18. he bound vs to heare the Church the chiefe and ordinarie mouth whereof S. Peter was whiles he liued and after him the Bishops of Rome his Successours haue euer had the same place He then that wil be sure to know how euery worde that belongeth to matter of the faith must be taken in this or in that place of holy Scripture or of holy writers must be ruled by the mouth of his chiefe Pastor Act. 20. Now that Pastor calling to him out of al the worlde the chiefe and best learned Bishoppes ordeined by the holy Ghoste Gouernours of particular flockes hauing seene and heard al that might be said too and fro in the middest of foure hundred threescore and ten Bishoppes and of moe then a thousand learned Diuines besides the assistance of the holy Ghoste called for mature deliberation had and diligent examination of the Scriptures and holy Fathers made founde and by al their consente determined Concil Lateranen ca. 1. that the substance of bread and wine in the Sacrament of the Aulter is by the power of Gods worde changed into the substance of Christes Body and Bloud After whiche determination we know how Gelasius and how Theodoritus must of necessitie be vnderstanded if at the lest we wil heare the Churche as vnder paine of damnation we are bound to doo This answer may suffice al the cauilles that are moued and tossed by M. Iewel touching nature substance subsistence or any like worde Al wordes are ambiguous as S. Augustine confesseth In lib. de Dialecti The highest iudge in the highest courte of Christendome hath geuen sentence He that obeieth hath humilitie and seeth his grounde He that being loth to seeme deceiued wrangleth as M. Iewel doth is proude vaine contentious and disobedient which custome Heretikes haue and euer haue had but as S. Paule saith 1. Cor. 11. the Church of God hath it not Iewel Pag. 262. 263. To leaue these vnfruitful gheasses vve saie that the cuppe of blessing vvhich Christ calleth the Cuppe of the nevv Testament notvvithstanding it vvere made in a Mysterie the Sacrament of Christes Bloude yet in nature and substance vvas very vvine stil and as Christe him selfe calleth it the very fruite and generation of the grape as it vvas before The vvordes of the Euangelist S. Mathevv are very plaine Harding Would God I could so clearely shew to the Reader as the weight of this matter requireth how lewdly you playe as wel with the Gospel as with me It is not I M. Iewel that am incōstant in saying now these wordes were spoken before consecration and now after and perhaps at both times whereat you ieast and scoffe it is not I that changed my minde But whereas one of the Euangelistes telleth the matter one waye and the other an other waye and whereas sometimes they tel thinges out of order as your selfe can not but graunt my answer must needes be such as by al meanes to saue the truthe of the Gospel that howsoeuer these wordes were spoken which be obscure yet the plaine truth should not be hindred by them You sticke to the plaine wordes of S. Matthew as you saie And why sir I praye you may not I as wel claime that S. Lukes wordes are as plaine Luc. 22. I then haue myne eye to bothe and so make a distinction shewing how bothe together may be defended You litle esteming S. Luke talke to vs onely of S. Matthew whereby you declare that you beleue none other Euangeliste ne none other word of God beside your owne fansie Likewise you dissemble how diuersly the Fathers haue expounded the fruite of the Vine and vtter many wordes about a most knowen truth The fruit of the vine which no man denieth wherein as you deserue smal praise of learning so you lose amonge the wise the commendation of discretion For answer to al which I saie that it is a certaine case and cleere out of question that there was wine in Christes chalice whereof the Sacramēt should be made and yet forsoothe you would nedes proue it in many Pages together Againe I say that as there was wine in the chalice whereof the Sacrament should be made so after it was made there was no more the substance of wine And that I wil proue so plainely That after cōsecration there vvas no more the substance of vvine in Christes cup. Luc. 22. that you shal neuer be hable to answer to it Christe him selfe said if at the leste you admitte S. Lukes Gospel This Cuppe is the newe Testament in my Bloude whiche cuppe is shedde or shal be shedde for you The Cuppe shal be shedde for vs saith Christe that is to saye the liquour conteined in the Cuppe shal be shedde for vs. But natural or artificial wine was not shed for vs but onely Christes owne Bloude was shed for vs Ergo onely Christes owne Bloude is in that Cuppe and the substance of wine is not there at al. The wordes are plaine that which is in the Cup or chalice shal be shed for vs that was onely Christes Bloude Therefore onely Christes Bloude is in the Cuppe or Chalice But Christes Bloude is no wine excepte wee cal it wine in suche respecte as Christe him selfe is called the Vine and the grape Therefore no material wine of the common grape is in the Cuppe of Christes Supper Chrysost in 1. Cor. 10. With
Religious personnes and others of the Clergie detected What if I saie al these and many other suche thinges were graunted of whiche we are persuaded that some are true the more parte is false muche is so written as it maie be defended no lesse then impugned What great inconuenience what preiudice to our Faith can ensue of al this Must the Catholike and ancient Doctrine of the Churche for these pointes be founde vntrue Must this now needes be made a good Argument Some of their liues were sinneful Ergo their Doctrine was false Truely these be the matters with the enlarging whereof his Defence hath risen to so huge a quantitie About whiche I haue not thought it needeful to bestow muche labour partly bicause in most of those pointes my Confutation of the Apologie yet standeth vnrefelled partly also bicause it liked me not to emploie good houres in so friuolous and vnfruitful a trauaile but chiefly bicause what so euer be said by M. Iewel touching these thinges either on the one side or on the other it importeth no disprouse of the Catholique doctrine in any Article whiche specially I haue taken in hande to mainteine Howbeit the thinges he bringeth in to deface the Churche must needes with wise menne in this case beare smal credite being considered vpon whose authorities and reportes they be auouched The Catholikes can not be greatly moued with suche thinges as are written in preiudice of the Churche either by them whose Bookes be of suspected faith and therefore condemned by the Church as Auentinus and Beno de vita Hildebrandi or haue ben corrupted of late yeres by the Lutheranes of Germanie as Vrspergensis In Indice librorum prohibitorum Antonius de Rosellis Polydorus Vergilius de Inuentoribus rerum Paschasius and others or who haue benne muche inclined to innouations in Religion and fauoured the Procedinges of Luther and his disciples as Erasmus Cornelius Agrippa Carion Lorichius Cassander and suche others or who be knowen to be manifest Heretiques and professed enemies of the Churche as Gaspar Hedio the Author of Paralipomena added to Vrspergensis Anselmus Rid Vergerius Sleidan Illyricus Fabritius Montanus Iacobus Andreae and many suche others al whiche M. Iewel allegeth against the Churche the Popes and the Clergie boldely as if they were Doctours of sufficient authoritie and sound credite against whom specially in these matters no exception might be taken As there is no cause why we shoulde greatly esteeme any thing spoken by these either against the manners of the Clergie or against the Ceremonies and customes of the Churche or against any parte of the Catholique Doctrine bicause in iudgement the bare worde of the Accuser or of him that otherwise is an il willer beareth smal credite against any man So touching the doctrine of Faith we feare not what so euer M. Iewel allegeth against vs out of the Schoolemenne Canonistes of al sortes Summistes and Glosers out of the Cardinalles and those other learned and graue menne appointed by Paulus Tertius to geue information of thinges in the state of the Churche to be refourmed and out of the Bisshoppes speaking their mindes freely in the late Councel of Trent For we are wel assured how so euer M. Iewel telleth their tales for them they helde and mainteined the doctrine which we professe in euery condition What so euer therefore he bringeth out of them bearing any sound of wordes against the Catholike Faith as very litle it is that to that effecte he can bring though with heapes of their sayinges he hath filled his great Volume the same is either by heate of Disputation or by waie of Obiection against the Truthe after the Scholastical manner for the better opening of the Truthe or by vehemencie of zele or perhappes by humaine ouersight vttered otherwise then by them is determined in their Conclusions whereof the taking of aduantage is vndue and ouer captious or by some sleight of M. Iewel falsified and corrupted or to saie the least by vntrue cōstruction wrested to a sense by the Authour neuer intended How so euer it be they shew them selues either very blinde of iudgement or very contentious wranglers or very vaine Ianglers that allege the wordes of any Writer against the Catholique doctrine whose whole course of life shewed him to be Catholique Which is tolde vs by S. Augustine as a moste certaine rule whereby to vnderstand mennes wordes in matter of Religion And therefore thus he crieth out vpon the blindenesse of such men among whom M. Iewel maie take him selfe annumbred that wil not vnderstād mens wordes by their dedes Aug. contra Epist Parme. li. 3. cap. 4. Incredibilis est coecitas hominum omnino nescio quemadmodum credi posset esse in hominibus tāta peruersitas nisi experimento verborum suorū factorūque patesceret vsqueadeo se clausos habere cordis oculos vt cōmemorent sancta Scripturae testimonia nec intueantur in factis Prophetarū quemadmodum intelligenda sint verba Prophetarū The blindnesse of men is inoredible and certainely I wote not how I might make one beleeue that there were such frowardnesse in men onlesse by the proufe of their wordes and deedes it appeared openly that the eyes of their harte were so faste shut vp that they allege the testimonies of the holy Scripture and doo not behold in the doinges of the Prophetes how the wordes of the Prophetes are to be vnderstanded Wherefore seing the farre greater parte of M. Iewels Defence consisteth of their sayinges heaped together of whom some were either them selues or their workes being vntruly set forth after their death of suspect faith some found to fauour heretikes some professed heretikes some contrariwise knowen by publike profession of their life to be perfite Catholikes making litle accompt what they of the one side saie as being of no credite specially in matter of Faith and not doubting but these of the other side meant wel and godly how so euer their wordes by M. Iewel be abused corrupted and misconstrued in consideratiō thereof good Reader I iudged a short Treatie might suffice in this case shorte I meane in comparison of that Huge Volume fraught with so much voide impertinent and superfluous stuffe Otherwise it is longer I am wel assured then he shal euer be hable aptly truly and directly to confute I saie not but he maie do eftsones as he hath twise already donne that is to saie gather together a huge number of sayinges out of al sortes of Writers and printing this Treatie withal sende vs forth an other great booke conteining much stuffe to litle purpose and not once touching the very precise pointes wherein he is charged with foule errours and falshed But to come directly to the pointes by me thoroughly refelled and with good proufes to iustifie the same keeping him selfe in from idle ranging abroad in matters not denied or otherwise impertinent this is that I affirme he shal neuer be hable to perfourme though he write againe as muche as
them selues also for auoiding superstition maie surceasse and be put awaie where the thing signified is perfourmed and sufficiently beleeued And so is Baptisme like to be quite abolished with other Signes and Ceremonies For Caluine their new Apostle of Geneua teacheth that if we were mindeful yenough of Christes Death al the Sacramentes were superfluous Caluin in â— Cor. 11. I praie God in this point I be not a true Prophete Defence 150. M. Iewel laboureth al that he can in the Defence to discharge Caluin of this perilous Doctrine wherewith I burden him in my Confutation But when he hath said al he hath lost his labour bicause he coÌ„meth not to the point and dissembleth that Caluine euer said it And so he maie beginne that matter again He shal do wel to make Caluin in Antidoto to agree with Caluin in his coÌ„mentaries vpon S. Paules Epistles where he teacheth expressely that in case of sufficient remembrance of Christes Death al the Sacramentes be superfluous Whiche I gather not out of Caluines wordes by a fonde collection as M. Iewel beareth the Reader in hande but I shew it to be Caluines owne saying and for trial I directe the Reader vnto the place Concerning the Godhed of the holy Ghoste I moued no Quarel at al. The Godhed of the holy Ghoste Pag. 90. Confutat 41. b. The proceeding of the holy Ghoste Yet in the Defence of the Apologie he beareth menne in hande that I denie the holy Ghoste may be proued to be God by expresse Scripture For these be his wordes You saie M. Harding that the Godhed of the holy Ghost can not be proued by expresse wordes of the Scriptures and thereof ye saie ye are right sure This is as false as true it is that the holy Ghoste is God Reade my wordes who wil he shal finde me true and M Iewel false Mary as touching the Article of the holy Ghoste whereas the Authours of the Apologie saie it procedeth from both the Father and the Sonne whiche is most true Some thinges are to be belieued for which vve haue no expresse Scripture in consideration of this pointe of this pointe only I saie whiche is parte of the whole Article and not of the Godhed I saie in my Confutation that they haue no expresse Scripture for it nor any of the first foure Generall Councelles and that therefore we are bound of necessitie to beleeue somewhat whiche is not expressely mencioned in the Scriptures and that an other Councel where that Article was confirmed is to be receiued beside the foure first whiche only be allowed in England by Parlament Bicause he was lothe so manifest Vntruthe vttered against me should be espied he nipte awaie my wordes not suffering my whole tale to be tolde out in whiche I doo plainely signifie my denial to perteine only to the Article of the holy Ghostes proceeding and not to the Article of his Godhed For after these wordes of the Apologie Defence pag. â—0 we beleeue that the holy Ghoste who is the thirde person in the holy Trinitie is very God not made not create not begotten but proceeding from both the Father and the Sonne by a certaine meane vnknowen vnto menne and vnspeakeable c. In my Confutation I saie thus As we acknowledge this Article to be true CoÌ„futatioÌ„ fol. 41. b. and Catholique so we demaund of these Defenders how they can proue the same Haue they either expresse Scripture for it or any of the first foure general Councelles whiche be esteemed of most auctoritie Other Conucels to be allovved of necessitie besides the 4. First We are sure they haue not Therefore we doo them to vnderstand and if they heare vs not we aduertise the readers that feare God and loue his truthe that al truth necessarily to be beleeued is not expressed in the Scripture and that other CouÌ„celles be to be receiued besides the foure first whiche are allowed in England by Parlament * This much betvvene the tvvo starres M. Ievv nipt avvaie from the rest as that wherein this pointe touching the proceeding of the holy Ghost hath bene defined Concil Lugdunen Concil Florentin sub Eugenio 4. as also other definitions of the Churche when vpon a newe doubte rising an olde Truth is by later Publications declared Likewise those Councelles in whiche the doctrine hath ben defined by the Churche concerning the Two Willes and Operations of Christe whiche who so euer beleeueth not or at least refuseth to beleeue is not to be takeÌ„ for a Christian man If these Councelles be denied al these things shal come in doubt againe and if these be receiued then why should not al the reste that be vniuersal Councelles be also receiued which the Church hath allowed * Thus I saie there Iudge now good Reader whether I denie in that place that the holy Ghostes Godhed maie be proued by expresse wordes of Scripture wherewith he chargeth me in the Defence and whether this be a seeking of Quarelles against him for that he mainteineth the Proceeding and the Godhed of the holy Ghoste as he chargeth me in his Epistle to the Queenes Maiestie Likewise it is an immoderate lye where he saith I seeke Quarelles against them in that they mainteine the Faith of the holy and Glorious Trinitie Pitie it were I should be suffred to tread on Gods earth if I quarelled with any man for that he mainteineth that holy Quarel I professe my selfe bounde to mainteine that Faith with al my witte and learning and to be ready therein to spende my bloude to the last droppe Neither can I seeme to pike Quarelles against them in that they mainteine the General and Catholique professioÌ„ of the Common Creede for so should I proue my selfe an ennemie to the Faith As thus to doo it were a hainous crime so to burden me therewith in a publique Write in a printed Booke set forth for euery man to reade in a solemne Epistle Dedicatorie to a Prince and to suche a Prince the slaunder is hainous wicked and impudent Howbeit As I allow and approue the Confession of their beleefe touching the Trinitie confessing it to conteine true and Catholique doctrine so I seeme better to like of the olde accustomed manner of vtterance of the beleefe And in deede emong Christian menne when this high point of our Faith concerning the blessed Trinitie is by a publique Confession to be taught it is not yenough to vtter some parte of our beleefe whiche is true but also it behoueth vs to vtter the whole truthe and to vse suche fourme of wordes as hathe benne vsed and allowed by the Churche from the beginning What I meane and how reasonably herein I haue spoken by these my wordes vnto the indifferent Reader it shal appeare Confut. 39. b. But what fault finde ye in this confession of our Faith saith this defender Sir the first parte of your Confession wherein you vtter your Beleefe touching the Trinitie conteineth true and Catholique
Defenders require vs to follow the example of S. Irenaeus in that he as they saie appealed oftentimes to the oldest Churches whiche had benne nearest to Christes time and whiche it was hard to beleeue that they had erred thus I saie Confut. â—â—4 a. Ye would seeme to be faine that we folowed the aduise of S. Irenaeus We are content with al our hartes And with Irenaeus we appeale to that Tradition Irenaeus lib 3. ca. 8. which is from the Apostles which as he saith is kepte in the Churches by Priestes that succeded them With Irenaeus leauing other Churches whose succession of Bishopes it were a long worke to reherse we require to haue recourse for trial of our Faith to the tradition of doctrine of the Romaine Churche which he termeth greatest oldest Idem lib. 3. cap. 3. best knowen to al founded and set vp by the twoo most glorious Apostles Peter and Paule We appeale to the Faith of that Churche taught abrode in the worlde and by successions of Bishoppes brought downe vnto vs. For to this Churche saith Irenaeus must al the Church of Christe repaire where so euer it be for that it is the chiefe of al and for that the tradition of the true doctrine whiche the Apostles lefte behind them is there faithfully kepte Wherfore if ye would after the counsel of Irenaeus resorte to Rome for decision of the controuersies that be betwixte you and vs and would them to be tried by that sense of doctrine whiche hath continued by Successions of Bishoppes euen from Peter to Pius the fourth now Pope and would stand to the auctoritie of that See Apostolike al strife were ended we should be at accorde But we haue litle hope that ye wil folowe this godly counsel of S. Irenaeus that blessed Martyr whose bodie your brethren the Huguenotes of Fraunce villanously burned at Lions Anno Domini 1562. after it had rested there thirteen hundred yeres and more In al these wordes as thou seest reader I say not as M. Iewel beareth her Maiestie in hande I doo that we must learne to know the wil of God only at the Popes hande But I declare whether we may most safely resorte for decision of the controuersies that be betwixte vs and the Protestantes Whereunto M. Iewel hath not yet answered ne neuer shal be hable to answere though in the Defence he haue shuffled together a great heape of allegations nothing perteining to the present purpose as his custome is to doo and a great parte of my confutation there he hath cut of M. Iewel cutteth and mangleth the Confutation in infinite places leauing out wordes of greatest vveight and therby hath fowly mangled the same as for his aduantage he hath done in infinite places leauing out the matters whereunto he had not what reasonably to answere See the place Reader Defence pag. 701. and thou shalt finde my worde true Item there Iewel That in the Popes onely holinesse standeth the vnitie and safetie of the Churche Confut. 204. b. Harding If I had so said in a right sense it might wel be allowed Howbeit thus I said Confut. 204. b. As Christe gaue vnto S. Peter and his Successours for the benefite of his Churche a supreme auctoritie and power so for the same Churches sake for whose loue he deliuered him selfe to death by petition made to his Father he obteined for him and his Successours Ioan. 14. Luc. 22. the Priuiledge of this Supreme and most excellent Grace that their Faith should neuer faile In consideration of whiche singular priuiledge obteined by Christe and graunted to the See Apostolike and to none other S. Gregorie rebuketh Iohn the Bishop of Constantinople so much as one that presumptuously vsurped that new name of vniuersal Bishop against the Statutes of the Gospel and against the decrees of the Canons To coÌ„clude if either S. Gregorie or any other maÌ„ should saie that the Churche dependeth vpon one man he might seeme to saie truthe meaning rightly and that not alone nor without good authoritie For such a saying we finde vttered by S. Hierome Hieron Contra Luciferian The saftie of the Churche saith he dependeth vpon the dignitie of the highest priest who if he haue not auctoritie peerlesse and aboue al other there wil be so many schismes in the Churche as there be priestes Which peerlesse auctoritie aboue al other as S. Hierome in that place doth attribute vnto the Bishop of euery Dioces directly so consequently to Peters successour to whom it was said Feed my shepe Iohan. 21. For by what reason in ech Dioces it behoueth one priest to be highest ouer other Priestes by the same and in like proportioÌ„ no lesse it behoueth that in the whole Church one Bishop be highest ouer other Bishoppes I meane for auoiding of schismes This reason is not ne can not of M. Iewel be auoided Of other thinges impertinent he bringeth vs great stoare out of other men in the Defence Defence pag. 452. but to this very reason wherein standeth the pointe touching the maintenance and preseruation of vnitie he saith nothing Item there Iewel That vvho so euer is diuided from the Pope must be iudged an Heretique and that vvithout the obedience of him there is no hope of Saluation Confut. 306. b. Harding Who so euer is diuided not onely from the Pope but also from any other Catholique Bishoppe in faith ought to be iudged an Heretique As touching obedience Iohan. 21. whereas by Christe he is commaunded to Feede his Lambes and his sheepe and thereby hath commission to gouerne them how can he be saued from the rauening woolues who through disobedience refuseth to come into that Folde and to be fedde and guided of that high Pastor I confesse that in certaine cases besides faith a man may disobey the Pope and yet not be remoued from all hope of saluation My wordes for whiche you make so muche a doo are these vttered vpon occasion of your Apologie Confut. fol. 306. b. Ye put vs in minde to consider how that your selues are those priuate hil Aulters and darke groues For ye be they that stoppe the people from the commoÌ„ Temple of Christendom the Catholique Church out of which is no saluation the head whereof sitteth in Peters Chaire at Rome Item there Iewel And yet as though it vvere not sufficient for him so vainely to sooth a man in open errours he telleth vs also sadly and in good earnest that the same Bishop is not onely a Bishop but also a kinge Confut. fol. 80. a. 305. b. Harding Neither haue I in any place soothed the Pope in open Errours but haue graunted that certaine Popes had their Errours either before they were called to that roume or also afterwarde holding them priuately and as priuate Doctours That the Pope erreth how is it denied But that by any publique decree geuen out to be holden and obserued of the Churche they euer mainteined or gaue assent or
Bastardes An. 1273. In prouisione de Martona cap. 9. paste wholy with the Lordes Temporal whether the Lordes spiritual would or no yea and that contrary to the expresse Decrees and Canons of the Churche of Rome Al these thinges saith he the wise and learned could sone haue tolde me And faine would I know of the wise and learned in deede whether al these thinges be true or other wise Verely for my parte I haue great cause to doubte If an other man had said them I should rather haue beleeued them As for M. Iewel I haue so generally founde him false in reporting al mennes sayinges whiche I examine by their bookes that I see good cause to misturst him euery where when so euer I lacke the bookes from whence he bringeth his allegations And although al that here he reporteth touching this matter were truely reported yet thereby it is not proued that al was lawfully and wel done But hereof as I said before I refuse to entre dispute But now whereas M. Iewel committeth Religion and al matters touching Faith vnto the Lordes Temporal and Commons assembled in Parlamente and wil that al orders and Statutes by them made and enacted concerning the same stand for good and lawful though the Bishoppes dissent neuer so muche By this he maketh the Faith not a Standerd to measure our opinions and iudgementes by as it ought to be but he maketh the willes and fansies of the Lordes the Standerd whereby to measure our Faith Faith made chāgeable according to the change of times And so the Faith shal be changeable according to the change of times For whereas al menne know in how fewe thinges the Lordes dissent from the wil and pleasure of the Prince who seeth not how thus it maie come to passe that our Religion and Faith shal change at the pleasure of euery Prince for the time being and that so at length we shal haue no stable Religion nor Faith at al If M. Iewel wil saie it behoueth al menne to know Gods worde and not to suffer them selues to yelde vnto any thinge that is not allowed thereby what remedie can be prouided against al errour when Princes and Lordes shal finde suche Doctours and Preachers as M. Iewel is who shal easily persuade the people that to be the meaning of Goddes worde by which the Princes and Lordes maie acheeue their desires But hereof I shal perhappes haue occasion to speake more hereafter Now whereas he complaineth so greuously of me for that I cal their Church I meane them that made the Apologie and their fauourers a malignant Churche a new Churche erected by the Deuil a Babilonical Tower a heard of Antichriste a Temple of Lucifer a Synagoge a Schoole of Satan ful of Robberie Sacrilege Schisme and Heresie If he his felowes and their folowers wil repent them hartily and vnfeinedly of their errours and heresies and returne home againe vnto the Catholique Churche if they wil ceasse to diuide and scatter abroad with the deuil the author of diuision and gather together with Christe and repaire vnitie if they wil leaue the manifolde and absurde confusion of opinions and doctrines whiche their sundrie sectes doo professe and mainteine stubbornly if they wil leaue to prepare a waie for Antichriste by their euil doctrine leading the worlde to al libertie of the flesh if they wil cal to God for grace and dispose them selues to humilitie if they wil at length heare the Catholique Churche if they wil acknowledge their wicked doctrine against the daily Sacrifice to procede out of Satans Schoole as it is confessed by Luther him selfe if they wil not mainteine their Robberies and Spoiles of Churches as iuste deedes if they wil forsake their Incestuous and Sacrilegious Marriages Briefly if they wil amende wherein they haue offended I wil gladly reuoke those wordes and how so euer in respecte of time past they haue deserued so to be spoken of I wil speake of them no other wise then of the Children of the Churche then of our dere brethren then of Goddes frendes Thus I haue answered the chiefe partes of M. Iewels epistle to the Quenes Maiestie and by repeating myne owne wordes which I was forced to doo I haue shewed euidently to the Readers eye how shamelesly he belyeth me and my Treaties Whereof the Reader maie take a view and so iudge what credite he deserueth in the rest of his Defence As for the rest of his epistle consisting wholy of flatterie I thinke not worth the answering Neither hath he vsed any more truthe in his Preface to the Christian Reader and in his Epistle to me set at the ende of his Defence where he filleth his magent with great numbers of Quotations pretending thereby the absurde and vntrue pointes in the Texte reproued to be founde in the Treaties whiche so busily he quoteth Now if I should in likewise answer to euery suche parte in the said Preface and Epistle conteined by these fewe it maie appeare to what hugenesse my booke would growe and of the whole what vnprofitable matter would rise soothly none other but a cōtinual and lothsome declaration of his vntrue dealing in one sorte or other But for so much as the same is by this briefe Answer to his Epistle dedicatorie alreadie sufficiently discouered that other labour maie seeme needelesse As we finde him in this so we finde him in the rest though otherwise not very constant yet in the rate of his writing one manner a man that is to saie one that euery where maketh his onely aduantage of lyes falsifyinges and corruptions How vniustly M. Iewel obiecteth sharpe speache and vncourteous wordes vnto his Aduersarie and how iuste cause there was that suche order of speache should be vsed The .2 Chapter GEntle Reader cōsider I pray thee indifferently how the case standeth betwixt M. Iewel and me Before he entreth into his Defence of the Apologie betwen his Epistle to the Quenes Maiestie and his Preface to the Reader he hath extraordinarily inserted foure leaues In which he laboureth al that he can to perfourme two thinges to discredit me and to aduaunce his owne credit To bring this to passe First he accuseth me next he excuseth him selfe He accuseth me of vncourteous Wordes he excuseth him selfe of fowle Vntruthes setting forth a colourable Viewe of a few of the same How reasonably he doth the one and how sufficiently the other by that I shal here declare thou maist iudge First touching wordes Where so euer godly zeale and iuste griefe moued me to vse sharpe speache albeit nowhere I vse so sharpe as the indignite of the thing required of al those places he hath caused certaine my wordes to be culled out and to be laid together as it were in a table before the Reader And bicause he would not seme scorneful euen there reprouing me for the same he calleth them forsooth certaine principal flowers of M. Hardinges modest speache And least he should at any time leaue his common
custome of falsifying al that he taketh in hande euen here also he playeth that parte as kindely as any where elles For although some suche wordes or the like be in deede founde in my writinges against him yet they beare not suche an owgly and lothsom visard as he putteth on them As for example whereas sometimes for good cause I can not finde in my harte to cal these mennes rash Innouation of the auncient religion their wicked abrogation of certaine Sacramentes their vile prophanation of the reste their horrible contempte of the body and bloude of Christe in the most blessed Sacrament of the Aulter whereas I say I can not finde in my harte to cal these thinges Godly procedinges restoring of the Gospel the sincere Worde the right Ministration of the Lordes Supper as they would al men to cal them but contrarywise Deuilish spite wickednes and villanie to cause the mater to seme more odious he reporteth my wordes thus your Deuilish spite your Deuilish wickednes your Deuilish villanie c as thoughe I had spoken them to him and to his felowes specially whereas for the more part suche wordes are spoken not in the second but in the third person of the Heretikes of our time indefinitely and in general Whiche neuerthelesse if I had spoken vnto him and them directly it had ben no greeuous sinne their desert considered For therein had I folowed the counsel whiche S. Antonie that blessed man gaue vnto his Scholers a litle before he departed this life To whom he said thus as S. Athanasius who wrote his life reporteth Athanas in vita Antonij Haereticorum venena vitate meumque erga eos odium sectamini Scitis quòd nullus mihi pacificus sermo cum eis fuerit Auoide the poisons of Heretiques and folow the hatred that I haue borne them Ye know that I had neuer any peaseable talke with them How so euer it be it had benne M. Iewels parte to haue vsed more truth in his writing But why did he not set forth my whole sayinges where suche wordes be placed What reason is it a man to burthen his Aduersarie with certaine wordes only and with silence to dissemble his entiere sentences By what laudable example hath he done thus Whiche of the olde Fathers euer did so If no man euer did it before these daies then so farre as the Catholique Church hath not erred in Faith and hath no neede now to receiue a new Gospel of Luther Zuinglius or Caluine by this practise he sheweth him selfe aswel a folower of the inuentours of new malice as a mainteiner of new Heresies Brentius the first author of this new deuise of laying the Aduersaries sharpe wordes together in one heape practized by M. Iewel This deuise of laying together in a heape al the sharpe wordes with whiche one feeleth him selfe prickte culled out of the aduersaries wriâ—â—nges is very strange and new and before this age whiche bringeth forth many rare nouelties was neuer vsed of any learned man In our time it is begonne and for ought I know first practized by Brentius who in the beginning of his booke against Bullinger entituled Recognitio propheticae Apostolicae doctrinae c written in defence of his newe doctrine of Vbiquitie laieth together in a heape al the wordes that Bullinger had vttered in his booke against him whiche might seeme sharpe rough and vngentle so softely must these menne now be handled after that they haue spent al their intemperate railing vpon the Pope the Papistes the most blessed Sacrament of the Aulter the daily Sacrifice the other Sacramentes and the godly Ceremonies of holy Churche Wherefore M. Iewel is not like to haue the glorie of this new deuise he must be content to yeelde it vnto Iohn Brentius whose ape and folower he is in this as in many other pointes worthy of smal praise Now if Bullinger the grande Captaine of the Sacramentaries of which secte M. Iewel is a professed mainteiner thought it not vnseemely for the grauitie of his Ministership to be so plaine with Brentius as to put him in minde sometimes of his deserued titles by saying he was Rixator Spiritus inflatus CaluÌ„niator c. a Branler In RespoÌ„sione BreÌ„tij ad primam partem Bullingeri pag. 8. 9. a pufte Sprite a spiteful speaker a skoffer a mocker a Hickescorner a peruerter a lyer vncleane impudeÌ„t a babler a brabler a craker a thrower of Christ out of his heauenly seate madde light childish a iangler a reuiler a sclaunderous person an Eutychian a Sophiste a railer woorse then Swenckefeldius him selfe Againe if he thought it not discommendable in him selfe being the chiefe Superintendent of Zurich to cal BreÌ„tius booke writen in defence of that new heresie Brentianas nebulas figmenta c. The mistes and deuises of Brentius Head vaine and peeuish â—oies knauish folies a doctrine dissoluing the hope of the faithfulles assured saluation in heauen a madnesse a phantasie Sophistrie crafty fetches most false deuises a feeble write Sophismes guiles a booke of Riddles a fabulous monstre a Sophistical Egypte stincking trifles prodigious Vbiquitie frantique wordes c If Bullinger I saie one of your noblest Worthies thought it not vnseemely for his degree and state to vse suche bitter eloquence and order of speach in reprouing Brentius and was neuer and it is like should neuer haue benne reproued for it among them of your owne Sacramentarie Secte M. Iewel why are you so heauy a Maister to me whom you esteeme muche lesse then Henrie Bullinger the Successour of your great Patriarke Zuinglius in the Chaier of your doctrine at Zurich as to blame that in me whiche you could not finde in your harte to disallow in Bullinger Wel how so euer in please you fauorably to iudge of your owne great Maisters and laye lode of reproches vpon me yet this muche you maie cal to your consideration Wordes considered alone without composition sounde good or euil according to their signification and al manner of wordes may be vsed without blame Of the sentences and whole sayinges onely where the circumstance may be considered and weighed faire or fowle speache is conceiued Now if thou wilt take the paines Reader to turne to the places of my bookes whence M. Iewel hath piked out those wordes for vse of whiche he reproueth me as a man of vncourteous vtterance thou shalt right wel perceiue in case heresie haue not vtterly bewitched thyne vnderstanding and bereued thee of al iudgement the verdure of my speache to be suche as may seme conuenient for a vessel of the holy Ghoste to taste of It may please M. Iewel to consider that by degree of Schoole and by lawful calling otherwise I stand in the place of teachers And therefore though at this present the Pulpite be denyed me yet I find not my selfe wholly so discharged of the office of teaching Now hauing no other conuenient meane to teache but by writing what ought I at this tyme to write
Ye are like to whitted Sepulchres Matth. 23. Liers euil beastes slow bellies Tit. 1. God shal strike thee thou painted wal said S. Paule to Ananias Act. 23. O ye foolishe Galathians Galat. 3. False Apostles guileful workers 2. Cor. 11. The enemies of the Crosse of Christe whose bellye is their God Philip. 3. O ye stifnecked and vncircumcised in hartes and eares ye haue euer resisted the holy Ghost said S. Steuen vnto the Iewes Act. 7. As Iannes and Iambres withstode Moyses so these withstand the truth 2. Tim. 3. Hye minded proude blasphemous Ibidem Their worde creapeth forth like a canker 2. Tim. 2. Their tong is ful of deadly poison Iacob 3. These Dreamers defile the flesh despise rulers and speake euil of them that are in auctoritie Iudae As beastes whiche are without reason Woe be vnto them For they haue folowed the way of Cain and are vtterly geuen to the errour of Balaam for lucres sake and perish in the treason of Chore. Ibidem Why tempte ye me ye Ypocrites said Christe Matth. 22 Wo be vnto you Scribes and Pharisees Ypocrites Mat. 23 Wo be vnto you blinde guides Ibid. O ye fooles and blinde Ibid. Ypocrite first caste out the beame out of thine owne eye and then c. Matth. 7. It were not harde Christian Reader here to lay forth a greater heape of wordes gathered out of the Scriptures which M. Iewel reproueth in me as vncourteous and vnciuile and proceding altogether of choler But these few may suffice for shewe that if we consider wordes only and not the Circumstance of the sentence and the iuste cause why they were with such vehemencie vttered the holy Ghoste may seme also chargeable of vncourteous and vnciuile speache by whose prompting the Scriptures of God haue ben written If the matter of M. Iewels greuous accusation depende of wordes considered in them selfe onely the Scriptures haue wordes that being put a parte sownde more roughly then any yet by the written or by him noted And so farre is that pretensed fault in both Testamentes nolesse then in my bookes But if al be to be weighed by the sentences wherein suche woordes be placed and by the deserte of them in whose reproufe they be vttered as reason is it should then I appeale to al men of iudgement the dew circumstances and causes wel considered whether I haue at any time passed the bowndes of a zealous defender of the Catholique Religion whereof I make profession That the vse of sharpe speache is conuenient according to the desert of M. Iewel and of his felowes LEt the rehersal of my whole sentences with their circumstance in whiche the wordes be founde that doo so much offend be differred vntil anonne And here to turne thy tale vnto you M. Iewel and vnto your felowes lette it be lawful for me to come vnto the causes by whiche I was iustly moued so to write and to the very thinges them selfe for which ye deserue so to be written of The oddes betwixte M. Ievvel and them of his side and vs. and with such courtesie of wordes to be greeted Who be you M. Iewel and who be they of your side Who am I or rather who are we For of my selfe I am content no accompte be made but only as I apply myne endeuour to defende the Churche and the Catholique Faith by you impugned As for vs say the worst ye can of vs we are Catholiques By your owne confession your doctrine hath not benne in al Churches at al times taught and therefore ye haue tolde vs we knowe not what of your Church that it is inuisible secret vnknowen and lurketh in corners no man can tel where and therefore ye are not Catholique We remaine in that we haue receiued ye are departed from that ye receiued The doctrine for whiche ye make suche sturre is it not openly knowen to al from what men ye had it and how late ye learned it Where was this fifth Gospel so muche as whispered in any knowen corner of the worlde before that lewd Augustine Frier Martin Luther brake his vowe ranne out of his Cloister and yoked him selfe to his wanton Nonne Where was your Sacramentarie doctrine preached before Frier Huskin that new named him selfe Oecolampadius likewise brake his solemne promise to God forsooke his Religion and coupled him selfe to a young yoke fellowe Before their time who heard the sownde of your Gospel Where had ye any Dioces any Bishoppe any Church any Priest any Chappel any so much as a Parrish Clerke in the whole worlde Tel vs not as ye are woont of Wiklef Huss Ierome of Prague Berengarius Bertram and a few other which were but byles and botches in the Churche and be in no wise worthy the name of Churche Forgete not what you say in your Apologie that Luther and Zuinglius came first to the Gospel Remember ye cal that time the first appearing the spring and the first grasse as it were of your Gospel If it be so how be ye Catholique or how be ye of the Catholique Churche which is so called in respecte of the vniuersalitie of times Vincētius Lirinen places and personnes As for vs on the otherside we are hable to shew you the continuance of our faith and Doctrine by orderly successions of Bishops going vpward euen from those learned and holy Fathers whom for none other cause but only for the Catholique Faith of Christes Churche most vniustly ye kepe in Prison to S. Gregorie who sent godly Preachers to conuert the English people of our countrie vnto the Faith of Christe and from S. Gregorie further vpward vnto S. Peter and S. Paule that preached the Faith in Rome and consequently vnto Christe him selfe If we would speake vnto you in the person of the Catholique Church whereof we are a parte we might say vnto you those wordes of Tertullian spoken to Heretiques Mea est possessio olim possideo prior possideo Tertul. li. Praescript aduersus haereticos habeo origines firmas ab ipsis authoribus quorum fuit res Ego sum haeres Apostolorum The Scripture and the right sense of the Scripture is my possession I am in possession of olde I claime possession by former right The Churche continueth to the worldes ende vvithout al intermission Matt. 28 Iohan. 14 I haue the assured originals from the first authours by whom it was set forth It is I that am the Apostles heire The Churche M. Iewel as ye ought to knowe continueth from Christes Ascension vnto the ende of the worlde without intermission and without exception of any age or yeres Wil ye haue vs proue it What can we say if ye wil not beleeue Christe nor God him selfe I wil be with you saith Christe al daies vnto the ende of the worlde Againe I wil beseche my Father and he shal geue you an other conforter to remaine with you for euer the Spirite of truthe whiche the worlde can not receiue God saith to Christe in
M. Iewel in his Defence goeth about to proue with many testimonies to no purpose I denie not Pag. 227. ne neuer denied but this specâ—â—â— Decâ—â—â— of Anacletus iâ—â—â— be 〈…〉 of thâ— Clergie onely Anacletus in prima Epistola Decretali that attendâ—â— vpon the Bishop as the Circumstance of the place in thâ— Epistle of Anacletus showeth This is to be sene in my Confutation fol. 9â— a. To this M. Iewel replieth and saith Here M. Harding is soone reproued euen by his owne Dectours Darandus Hugo Cochlaus Clichthâ—ueus For thus they saie Omnes olim tum Sacerdotes tum Laici cum sacrificante communicabant c. Hiâ— vnum de hae re Canonem recitâ—bo qui Calixto â—scribitur Hereto I answer If I saie otherwise touching this point then these whom M. Iewel calleth myne owne Doctours haue said therein I am gainesaid it wil not folow that I am reproued Dâ—randus and Hugo say nothing that is contrary to my vnderstanding of Anacletus Decree As for Coclaeus and Clichthoueus menne of our tyme what if they tooke it otherwise then I doo That is their Priuate sense It foloweth not thereof that I am deceiued That Anacletâ—â— Decree touching the necessitie of Communion to be receiued perteineth onâ—y to the Clergie Nicol. Cusanus epi. 7. ad Clerum literatos Bohemia Degradentur I haue good cause rather to beleeue Cardinal Cusanus who semeth to haue examined this Decree farther and more exactly thâ—n these two late writers haue done For thus he reciteth the Later parte of the Decree as it is in the Original out of Burchardus Sic enim Apostoli statuerunt sancta Romanae tenet Ecclesia si hoc neglexerint degâ—adentur Let al communicate that were present at the Consecration saith the Decree for so the Apostles haue ordeined and so the holy Romaine Curche holdeth and if they omitte it by contempte lette them be degraded or deposed from their Degree Cusanus willeth the worde Degradentur Degradentur to be weighed and thereof gathereth that the Decree speaketh only of them of the Clergie that were present at the Consecration and were admitted into Sancta Sanctorum the holy place where none came but such as were in Ecclesiastical Orders 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that is to say of the Clergie as they are called in the. 9. Canon among the Canons of the Apostles whereunto the Decree maketh relation Hereof I haue spoken sufficiently beside the place of my Confutation aboue mencioned in my first Reionder fol. 220. a. and againe fol. 308. a. Thus you remaine stil charged with this Vntruthe For it is not inough to say what is written but to discerne what is best written M. Ievvel The Apologie Parte 2. cap. 8. Diuis 2. Gregorius Nazianzenus saith speaking of his owne Father The .3 Vntruth that a good and a diligent Bishop doth serue in the Ministerie neuer the woorse for that he is married but rather the better Here I tolde M. Iewel that he vsed his accustomed Figure Pseudologia whiche is as muche to say as lying in plaine Englishe For in deede he neuer saied it And so muche doo I tel him here once againe But lette vs consider of his Replie wherein he seemeth to plaie the parte of a woorse Lyer then before Thus he saith An vntruth proceding of grosse ignoraÌ„ce or of great impudencie This errour of M. Hardinges grewe of ignorance For Nazianzenes wordes be very plaine Meo Patri Mater mea c. My Mother being geuen to my Father of God became not onely his helper for that had benne no great woonder but also was his leader and Captaine both by worde and by deede trayning him vnto the beste In Religion and godlines she doubted not to becomme his Maistresse Nazianzenus in Epitaphio patris The faithful vvoman trauailed vvith her vnfaithful husband to bring him vnto the Faith she did not so after that he vvas made Bisshop August Confess li. 9. cap. 9. Al this and muche more vttered by the learned sonne of his godly Mother is to be vnderstanded of the time when his father was an Infidel She being a Christian woman and comme of a Christian stocke being married vnto her husband remaining yet without beleefe in Christe vsed al the good meanes of a helper guide leader schoolemaistresse and teacher to induce him vnto the Faith Whiche thing by Goddes grace at length she perfourmed as the holy wooman Monica S. Augustines mother did likewise in winning Patricius her husband vnto the Faith of Christe not long before he died as S. Augustine witnesseth But that euer she tooke vpon her so to teache him after that he was chosen Bisshoppe of Nazianzum for that M. Iewel is not hable to shewe vs so muche as one woorde or halfe woorde and yet that doth he constantly affirme in his pretensed Defence In the Defence page 178. This being so what maketh it to the iustification of his Vntruthe It may please thee good Reader to peruse that I say of this hereafter where I treate of it at large and confute this impudent Vntruthe of M. Iewels thoroughly Confutation fol. 76. in sequent Howbeit I confuted the same also sufficiently in my Confutation of the Apologie M. Ievvel The Apologie Parte 6. cap. 5. Diuis 2. Pope Liberius saith he was a fauourer of the Arian Heretiques The 4. Vntruth That he was a fauourer of the Arians it is vtterly vntrue saie I. And it were not harde if I were desirous to furnish foorth a greate Booke with heapes of Doctours sayinges as M. Iewel is to allege very muche to the contrarie and in his Defence that he was a man of great constancie and neuer bare sauour towarde the mainteiners of that horrible heresie The contrarie appeareth by that Theodoritus writeth of him Libro Ecclesiasticae Historiae 2. cap. 17. Athanasius in Apologia saith he was bannished for that he would not subscribe vnto the Arian Heresie Tripart Lib. 5. cap. 16. M. Iewels Replie hereto is this The Authour hereof is S. Hierome de Ecclesiasticis Scriptoribus in Fortunatiano And one of M. Hardinges owne principal Doctours saith De Liberio Papa constat fuisse Arianum That Pope Liberius was no fauourer of the Arians Here haue we twoo newe Vntruthes added vnto the old Marke Reader what is that M. Iewel affirmeth and that I denie It is this that Pope Liberius was a fauourer of the Arian Heretiques S. Hierome in the place by M. Iewel alleged saieth not that Liberius was a fauourer of the Arians but that by the importunitie of Fortunatianus Bisshop of Aquileia Hieron in Catalogo ScriptoruÌ„ Eccl. 107. he was compelled to subscribe vnto Heresie as he was going into bannishment for the Faith Pro Fide ad exilium pergentem primus solicitauit ac fregit ad subscriptionem haereseos compulit saieth S. Hierome if these were his his owne woordes and not woordes added vnto him by Heretiques as
of Christe VVe are Embassadours in the steede of Christe 2. Cor. 5. euen as though God did exhorte you through vs Hereof ye conclude Ergo the Pope vnder Châ—â—stâ— and in steede of Christe is the head of the Churche If ye conclude not thus ye vvander idlely and speake in vaine and conclude nothing Harding To what sense these wordes of S. Paule were alleged and that S. Bernarde maketh for vs. The 8. Chapt. That place of S. Paule was not alleged to proue that the Pope is Head but to proue that menne whiche doo beare the person of Christe in ruling the Churche maie in one signification be called Headdes bicause they are gouernours vnder Christe and so muche it proueth sufficiently Leaue Cauillations M. Iewel and keepe you to the matter for verie shame If you marke no better what your Aduersarie taketh in hande to proue against you then you haue done in this you wil be founde as weake in Logique for al your glorious shewes and crakes as you are in Diuinitie You can see nothing you saie wherein the Pope resembleth S. Paule And what then Admitte we this to be true though in deede it be false that he preacheth not he exhorteth not c wil you remoue rulers from their authoritie if they satisfie not your minde in al pointes of duetie Kinges shal not then long keepe their roomes as men maie see what holesome broiles your good brethren haue now stirred vp in sundry realmes Your Gospel and Pistles I might saie your Pistolets are to ful of gunne powder M. Iewel Christes Ghospel breatheth not forth suche outragious and blouddy blastes Looke wel vpon al the places and phrases that you haue hunted after touching the Terme Head and if they be wel examined they shal be founde to make rather with vs then ought at al against vs. Iewel Pag. 96. S. Bernarde vvithout glose saith plinely Bernard in Concil Remensi Non sunt omnes amici Sponsi qui hodie sunt Sponsi Ecclesiae They be not al the Bridegromes frendes that are this daie the Spouses of the Churche Harding Denieth S. Bernarde in that place trowe ye that Bishoppes are the Spouses of the Churche Or doth he not rather graunt it in that he saith Qui sunt hodie Sponsi Ecclesiae They that are nowe a daies the Spouses of the Churche Haue not you the reason to marke what he graunteth and what he denieth He denieth that al they were the Bridegromes frendes that were at that time Spouses of the Churche Ergo there were some that were bothe the Bridegromes frendes and also Spouses of the Churche What il lucke haue you alwaies to allege the Fathers to your owne ouerthrowe As strange as you make that any man should be called the Light the Life the Sauiour and the God yet certaine of these haue ben attributed in Scripture as lothe as you be to heare of it to menne that were Headdes vnder Christe Matth. 5. The Apostles pardy are called the light of the worlde Moyses is called by God the God of Pharao Exod. 7. Psal 135.81 Gen. 41. Rulers are called Goddes Confitemini Deo Deorum Ego dixi Dij estis Ioseph is called a Sauiour of the worlde The Apologie part 2. cap. 3. Diui. 1. pag. 96. Furthermore vve beleeue that there be diuers degrees of Ministers in the Churche vvhereof some be Deacons some Priestes some Bishoppes to vvhom is committed the office to instructe the people and the wâ—â—le charge and setting forth of religion Confutation Here it had ben your parte to haue declared your saithe touching the holy Sacrament of Order aggreable to the faithe of the Catholique Churche that there be seuen Orders in the Churche foure lesser and three greater for so by good reason they are called c. Iewel Pag. 96. Gentle Reader if I should leaue these and other like M. Hardinges vvordâ—s vnansvvred thou mightest happely thinke he had said somevvhat c. Harding More then euer you shal be hable truely and learnedly to answere As for sundrie of lesser Orders I referred you to places in the olde Fathers where they are specially named Iewel Pag. 96. Anacletus epist 3. His ovvne Anacletus saithe Amplius quà m isti duo Ordines Sacerdotum Episcopi praesbyteri nec nobis à Deo collati sunt nec Apostoli docuerunt More then these two Orders of Priestes Bishoppes and Elders neither hath God appointed vs not haue the Apostles taught vs. Harding why is Anacletus I praie you rather myne then yours Why allege ye suche Doctours whose auhoritie ye esteeme not If Anacletus that was a holy Father and Martyr with in the first hundred yeres after Christe be not to be credited why doo you allege him Wil your courrage serue you as wel to defie the Fathers that liued so nighâ— to Christe as it doth to contemne al them that wrote in the later nine hundred yeres If he be worthy of any credite why is he called myne owne more then your owne What insolencie is this to make accompte of no Father of what antiquitie so euer he be If it had pleased you to haue taken time sufficient to consider the matter better you might haue founde out that the Apostles taught vs the order of Deacons as it is manifest in the Actes of the Apostles Acto 6. 1. Tim. 4. 2. Tim. 1. and in S. Paules Epistles to Timothee whereby ye might haue easily coÌ„ceiued that the Auncient Father Anacletus in his third Epistle comprehended not onely vnder the terme Sacerdos Priestes but also Deacons and Subdeacons as Bartholomaeus de Caranza now Bishop of Toledo in Spaine plainly testifieth by his notes vpon the same Epistle Perhappes you take Anacletus to be myne rather then yours bicause in the same thirde Epistle he saith that the Churche of Rome had the preeminence ouer al the Churches in the worlde geuen not by the Apostles but by our Sauiour Christ him selfe This is it that disliked you in so auncient a Father and constant Martyr of Iesus Christe and for this you accompte him myne and not yours He is in deede myne and not yours as al the other olde Fathers are when they come to trial In the meane time remember that I haue alleged euident places of S. Chrysostome of S. Gregorie and of Anacletus for the Primacie of the Pope and by Goddes grace I intende to allege more hereafter Iewel Pag. 96. And yet of the same tvvo seueral Orders S. Hierome seemeth to make only one Order For thus he vvriteth Audio quendam in tantam erupisse vecordiam vt Diaconos Praesbyteris id est Episcopiâ— anteferret I heare saie there is a man broken out vnto suche wilful furie that he placeth Deacons before Priestes that is to saie before Bishoppes c. Harding That there is difference betwixt Bishops and Priestes that termes of diuers significations maie not be vsed at pleasure Item of holy Orders c. The .9 Chapt. But
Peter til Christes second comming the Pope S. Peters successour ought to yelde his Chaire to no creature Then be ye assured 3. Reg. 12. that as Ieroboam setting vp a Succession against the Succession of Aaron before Christ was a wicked Schismatike and an Idolatour so what soeuer King Queene or Priest setteth vp a Succession against S. Peters Chaire before Christes seconde comming is a Schismatike and shal without he or she repent be damned in hel fire with Idolatours for euer For S. Peters Chaire to the new Lawe is that which Moyses Chaire was to the olde Lawe Iewel The Pharisees said vnto Christ then euen as M. Harding saith novv vnto vs VVho euer taught vs these thinges before thee VVhat ordinarie Succession and vacation hast thou VVhat Bishop admitted thee VVho confirmed thee VVho allovved thee Harding What meaneth this man wil he take vpon him to be Christ him selfe I thought he would haue put Luther Zuinglius M. Ievvel shevveth vs in him selfe an Image of Antichrist Caluine or Beza in Christes place But he wil now haue it himselfe Marke his wordes good Reader thou shalt see a very Image of Antichriste We must be like the Pharisees and he must be like Christe And therefore as Christe did put the Pharisees from their former Temple Chaire and Lawe so we must yelde to M. Iewel For it was prophecied before for soothe that as Christe was the ende of the Lawe so M. Iewel should be the ende of the Gospel And as al the former Successions of high Priestes and of Leuites gaue place to Christe and to the new Order which he appointed so must now al the former Successions of the Apostles and the new lawe yeld vnto M. Iewel and vnto the order that he shal take hereafter in Religion For he seemeth as it were to say I am Christe and M Harding is a Pharisey And as the Pharisees asked Christe who euer taught vs these thinges before thee so M. Harding the Pharisey asketh M. Iewel who now is become Christ what ordinarie succession or vocation hast thou What Bishop admitted thee who confirmed thee who allowed thee Marke I praie thee good Reader how it commeth to passe whiche Christe said before that many should come in his name and should seduce many There shal arise saith he false Christes and false Prophetes Math. 24 that is to say men shal come who excepte they attributed to them selues mine owne glorie authoritie and power should not deceiue you Suche a one is M. Iewel For I say vnto him in good earnest that beside Christe him selfe who was aboue al Succession and might alter and change the same he can haue none other man possibly from Adam the first man til this hower No man euer was or shal be of auctoritie to take avvay or change the lavvful Succession of Bishops but that lawful Succession of Bishops and Priestes ought to be heard and followed against that man what soeuer he were Cain ought to haue obeied Adam to haue remayned with Seth and not to haue constituted a newe companie in suche sort that there should be one Citie of the children of menne and an other of the Children of God Nemrod ought to haue kepte him selfe in the Succession of Seth continewed by Noe and not to haue made him selfe a Prince by force by which occasion the faith beganne to be abandoned Ismaël and Esau should haue taried in the Succession and not haue suffered their ofspring the Agarenes and Edomites to leaue the olde Religion of Abraham Isaac and Iacob Core Dathan and Abyron should not haue forsaken the Succession of Leui and of Aaron Ioseph lib. 11. Antiquit ca. 8. Ieroboam should not haue forsaken the Succession of Moyses Chaire Manasses the brother of Iaddus should not haue forsaken the same Succession and haue gon to builde a new Temple in the mount Garizim Iosephus de bello Iudaic. lib. 7. ca. 30. Onias should not haue forsaken the knowen Succession at Ierusalem and haue built a Temple in Egypte The Samaritanes should not haue sacrificed but only in Ierusalem Onely Christe onely Christe I say might lawfully according to the prophecies forsake the former ordinarie Succession Ioan. 21. and electe a newe as he did saying to Peter feede my sheepe From which howre til the ende of the world no man what so euer he be may forsake the Ordinarie Succession of Peter but must keepe him selfe in the same house of God with him and his Successours vntil Christ come againe From that Succession departed Marcion Arius Eunomius Nestorius Pelagius Eutyches and briefly al other Heretiques whiche al haue benne condemned of Peters See and of al other Bishoppes that were ioyned and lincked in vnitie of faith and Doctrine with that See Nowe for M. Iewel to take vppon him Christes owne peculiar office such as no Patriarke no Prophete no Apostle euer had and to require that he maie abolishe the Masse and change the order of the Communion diminish the number of Sacramentes and transferre the Order of Succession from the Apostolike See they can not tel whither and al this none otherwise then Christ him selfe did is not this the proper spirite of Antichrist Remember your selfe M. Iewel whiles you haue time to repent And consider that either you thinke your selfe to be in very deede the Messias of the worlde who was annointed only of God and needed no vocation of man or els be you assured that you are bound to holde of the ordinarie Succession of them I meane who sit in S. Peters chaire and are of the same faith and communion with S. Peters successour Iewel Pag. 128. Therefore good Christian Reader let not these M. Hardings great vvordes much abashe thee The Scribes and Pharisees in the like cases vsed the like language long agoe Harding Wherefore shal not the Christian Reader be abasshed at my wordes demaunding of M. Iewel where his ordinarie succession is Wherefore I say shal not the Christian Reader be abashed Forsoth bicause by like M. Iewel is Christ or rather better then Christ who putteth away Christes former Church and the succession of his Apostle S. Peter as Christ did put away Moyses former Law and the Succession of Aaron Therefore as Christ passed Moyses in so many degrees must M. Iewel passe Christ if his doings shal be iustified Therefore good reader be not abasshed if M. Iewel be Christe But if thou thinke not so and yet doest thinke in religion as he doth then be thou worthily abasshed For surely he is either Christ who maketh a new Succession of Priesthod and of Bishops or Antichrist who goeth aboute to vndoo the olde former Succession whiche Christe had established Iewel Touching the Church of Rome I vvil say no more at this present but only that vvas spoken openly by Cornelius the Bisshop of Bitont◠in the late Councel of Trident. Vtinam non à religione ad superstitionem à fide ad infidelitatem à Christo
ad Antichristum velut prorsus vnanimes declinassent VVould God they vvere not al gonne by consent together from religion to superstition from saith to infidelitie from Christ to Antichrist These fevv vvordes considering either the speaker or the place vvhere they vvere spoken may seme sufficient Harding If you had considered either the speaker or the place so as you ought to haue donne you might haue benne ashamed to haue alleged the woordes of a Catholike Prelate for your purpose For what soeuer he meant by them you may be wel assured he meant not to say that the Catholique Churche was gonne from faith to infidelitie or from Christe to Antichrist Otherwise he him selfe would not haue stil continued in that Catholique Churche which had seemed to him to haue lacked faith Cornelius episcopus Bitōtinus and Christe But nowe the man is knowen in al Italie and is aliue to this daye who stil continueth in dayly preaching and in exhorting al men to flie from your heresies to the Catholike faith and to keepe them in the Churche so that his deedes do wel shewe what he meant by his wordes The whiche rule S. Augustine would haue kepte in the vnderstanding of what so euer Writers A lesson hovv to vnderstande mennes vvordes in matter of Religion Contra epist Parmen li. 3. cap. 4. and specially touching religion And who so euer doth not so vnderstand mennes wordes by their deedes vpon his blindnesse he cryeth out in this sorte Incredibilis est coecita hominum omnino nescio quemadmodum credi posset esse in hominibus tanta peruersitas nisi experimento verborum suorum factorúmque patesceret vsque adeo se clausos habere cordis oculos vt commemorent sanctae Scripturae testimonia nec intueantur in factis prophetarum quemadmodum intelligenda sint verba Prophetarum It is an incredible blindnesse of menne and verely I knowe not howe it might be beleeued that there is suche frowardnesse in menne onlesse by the proufe of their wordes and deedes it appeared openly that the eyes of their harte were so fast closed that they allege the testimonies of holy scripture and do not consider by the doinges of the Prophetes how the wordes of the Prophetes are to be vnderstanded And straight after where S. Augustine saith those wordes he sheweth by example what he meant Hieremie had written Hier. 2. what hath Chaffe to doo with the Wheate The Donatistes thereupon reasoned that the Catholikes were Chaffe and them selues Wheate but saith S. Augustine by waie of exposition there did Hieremie that said the Iewes were Chaffe forsake their Church and fellowship No verely How so euer then Hieremie the prophete meant we ought to vnderstand his wordes according to his deedes And seing as concerning his deedes he liued in one Temple and faith with them whom he called Chaffe we may be wel assured that by the name of Chaffe he meant not that the Iewes had not true Faith and Religion but only that they had not true Charitie and Obedience Euen so if M. Iewel would consider that the Bishop of Bitonto goeth not from Italie to Geneua nor to Germanie nor to England but both abideth stil in his Bisshoprike and hath so much preached against these present Heresies of Luther Zuinglius and Caluin that now three whole Volumes of his eloquent Italian Sermons are extant in print if he would haue considered this he might haue benne ashamed with such a great brauarie and so ofte to haue alleged a Catholike mannes woordes against Rome the mother Churche of al Catholikes S. Augustine calleth it an incredible blindnesse so to doo and suche as no man would beleeue except he saw it vsed But by whom Verely by Heretikes who hauing no truth for them doo stil make vaine bragges and shewes of woordes when the very deedes of them whose woordes they bring are against them Which thing I stand the longer vppon bicause M. Iewel hath vsed this practise aboue a thowsand times in his pretensed Defence M. Ievvel euery vvhere allegeth their vvordes for him vvhom by their deedes he vvel knoweth to be against him Aboue a thousand tymes I say he hathe alleged the woordes of Schoolemen Gloses Summistes and Canonistes for his purpose whereas he wel knoweth they beleeued al suche as he is to be detestable Heretiques and for suche condemned them Yet must they be brought in and that so often so seriouslie and with suche Preambles as though he woulde beare the worlde in hande they were cleare of his side Neither did Cornelius the Bisshoppe of Bitonto speake of the Bisshoppes of Rome specially as M. Iewel would beare the Readers in hande Bitōtinus in oratione habita in Concil Tridentino but generally of the Christians saying that they haue wandered like sheepe in hilles and feeldes and that the chiefe of them are turned from authoritie vnto Lordlynes from right vnto wronge and would God saith he they were not vtterly as it were with one consent bowed from Religion to superstition from faith to infidelitie from Christ to Antichrist Neither doth he say they are al gonne as M. Iewel englisheth the woordes Hovv M. Ievvel falsifieth his allegation The woorde al is not there Againe he saith not they are gonne by consent altogether but velut prorsus vnanimes as it were vtterly of one minde The worde velut as it were doth temper his woordes but M. Iewel hath leafte out velut and hath put in this worde al lest if the sentence of that Bishop should be thus tempered it should not seeme greuous inough His meaning was to complaine as euery good man dayly doth vppon the vices of menne who liue as if they had neither Faithe nor Religion And that woulde haue appeared most plaine if M. Iewel had not cutte of the later woordes of Cornelius vncourteously stopping him from telling out his whole tale For in the very same sentence it foloweth A Christo ad Antichristum quin à Deo ad Epicurum vel ad Pythagoram velut prorsus vnanimes declinassent Would God they had not as it were vtterly with one consent gonne a side from Christe to Antichriste yea rather from God to Epicure or to Pythagoras These last woordes whiche made al plaine were omitted by M. Iewel as his custome is and the authours tale is falsified and his woordes abused For any man woulde soone iudge that they goe not to Epicure or Pythagoras to the ende to mainteine the doctrine and opinions that those Philosophers helde Pardonne me good Reader if herein I seeme to long For at this tyme I doo but as it were geue thee a shewe what and howe muche might be said in euery other Article of the Booke if I thought it labour worthe to discusse them particularly For I assure thee in my conscience there is not any thing in this pretensed Defence whiche might not be wel and easily answered were not that it seemeth to me a thing both superfluous so to answere suche heapes of
lyes and gloses and also an vnprofitable bestowing of good time Iewel They are gonne from Faith to infidelitie from Christe to Antichrists Harding Which they M. Iewel Did he speake of the Popeâ—… of Rome M. Ievvel odiously layeth that to the Bishops of Rome vvhiche vvas spoken generally by vvaie of coÌ„plaint of al euil ChristiaÌ„s You say touching the Church of Rome c. And yet now you bring forth that which was generally spoken and that by waie of complaint of al euil Christians and not namely of the Bisshops of Rome Againe how are they gonne from faith to infidelitie and from Christ to Antichrist Verely bicause they are gonne froÌ„ God to Epicure that is to say bicause many of them liue as if they had neither faith nor Christ nor God Last of al he saith not they are gonne as you falsifie his wordes but with a moderation would God they were not gonne He sheweth him selfe to feare lest they be gonne he taketh not vpon him boldly to affirme it as you doo Iewel And yet al other thinges failing they must holde onely by Succession and only bicause they sit in Moyses Chaire they must claime the possession of the vvhole This is the right and vertue of their Succession Harding Is it not reason if secular men hold their kingdomes landes goodes and rightes by Succession yea when al other rightes forces and vertues faile that Gods Ministers if they had nothing els leaft should hold stil their owne also by Succession It is wel knowen that the Bishops of Rome haue more then only Succession For they make good Decrees they geue answer to great consultations they cal General and Prouincial Councelles they execute the Canons of them and send forth Preachers as of late they haue done euen vnto the new found Indies beside many other godly and vertuous actes which they exercise for the saluation of their own soules and of the people But what if they had nothing but Succession Would you then haue men forsake their folde and Church Did Isaias so did Esdras so did Iudas Machabeus so did Zacharias so did S. Iohn Baptist so Can you deuise the Popes to be worse then Caiphas or the Pharisees Math. 23. And yet Christ willed them to be obeied albeit they had litle els beside Succession It is this Succession M. Iewel which shal lie in your and in your companions waie at the dredful day of accompte It shal not be demaunded of euery man why he studied not the Scriptures which most men haue not learned to reade But it shal be demaunded why they haue no faith nor charitie No faith by forsaking the open and knowen Succession no charitie by breaking vnitie Euery man seeth Succession ignorance can not be pretended and euery man shal be iudged by it concerning his Faith Iewel The vvordes of Tertullian M. Harding vvhich you haue here alleged vvere spoken of certaine your ancient fathers that had raised vp a nevv religion of them selues as you haue also done vvithout either vvorde of God or example of the Apostles and holy fathers Harding It is happy that at the length Here at length M. Ievvel beginneth to ansvver my vvordes but how consider you beginne to answere my wordes We shal now see how wel you touche Tertullians meaning You say his wordes were spoken of certaine my ancient Fathers That can not be so For none are in this behalfe my fathers but those who loue wel the Succession of Bishops But Tertullian spake of those De Prascription aduersus Haret that esteemed the Succession of Bishops as litle as you do And therefore they are your fathers of whom he speaketh that is to say they are Heretikes of whom he speaketh For in dede no heretike can abide Succession bicause they would faine iustle out the olde Succession to schuffle in their new Intrusion You say the men of whom Tertullian speaketh raised vp a new Religion of them selues and therein you say truth You adde as I also haue donne but therein you belye me for ye are not hable to laye any one point of doctrine to my charge wherein I follow not that old Succession which abhorreth al new Religion Let al the worlde iudge who raiseth vp a newe Religion you or I. You say the Heretiques of who Tertullian spake raised vp a new Religion without the Worde of God example of the Apostles or of holy Fathers If you meane without the true meaning of Gods worde you say truth and then you also are without Gods worde bicause you are without the Church whereunto Gods worde with the true interpretation thereof was geuen and we are not without it bicause we conteine our selues within the Churche But if you meane that these heretikes did not sounde the wordes of the Scriptures in their lippes as falsely and withal as fast as you doo then you say not truly For Tertullian in that booke doth shew that the Heretikes also appealed to the Scriptures Tertullian in Prascript aduersus haeret and he answered that to striue with heretiques vpon the scriptures was a thing of vncertaine victorie bicause one saith it is not holy Scripture an other saith it is holy Scripture one saith it is meant thus an other saith it is â—â—â—â—t otherwise But saith Tertullian the interpretation of the Scriptures belongeth to them It booteth not to striue vvith heretiques about the Scriptures who haue the true faith and he concludeth that they haue the true faith who haue the perpetual Succession of Bishoppes from the Apostles time til their owne daies Scripturas obtendunt hac sua audacia statim quosdam mouent The Heretiques pretende to bring Scriptures for them selues and with that their impudencie forthwith they shake some And afterward Ibidem Ergo non ad scripturas prouocandum est nec in his constituendum certamen in quibus aut nulla aut incerta victoria est aut parum certa Therefore we must not alwaies appeale vnto the Scriptures neither must we striue about them in which either no victorie at al or an vncertaine or verely not very certaine victorie is obteined Then sheweth he that heretikes of right haue not to doo with the Scriptures but onely the Catholiques Heretiques of right haue not to doo with the Scriptures TertulliaÌ„ Ibidem to whom the Apostles deliuered them and not them only but other thinges also viua voce by mouth and worde without writing Si hac ita sunt constat proinde omnem doctrinam quae cum illis Ecclesiis Apostolicis matricibus et originalibus fidei conspiret veritati deputandam reliquam verò omnem doctrinam de mendacio praeiudicandam quae sapiat contra veritatem Ecclesiarum Apostolorum Christi Dei. If this be so then is it euident that al such doctrine as agreeth with those that are the Apostolique Churches the mother Churches and the original Churches of the faith is to be taken for true and that al other
time of Peter to thintent they should take vpon them the charge of the bishops duetie and he him selfe fulfil the office of an Apostle We finde that he did the like also at Caesarea where though he were present him selfe yet he had Zachaeus whom he ordered him selfe to be the bishop And thus both may seeme true to wit that they were taken for bishops before Clement and yet that Clement after the death of Peter tooke the place of teaching Ruffinus inuented not this solution of him selfe but he tooke it of others For he saith accepimus asmuche to saie we haue receiued we haue heard we haue learned this so that it was a thing knowen and taught from the beginning which yet M. Iewel either knew not or willily dissembled As though it were a great hinderance or preiudice to the Emperours Maiestie if it were vnknowen now whether Vitellius had ben Emperour before Galba or Galba before Vitellius with such toyes he stuffeth his booke Iewel Pag. 129. I might farther say that Peters See Apostolike vvas ouer the Ievves and not at Rome ouer the Heathens Gal. 2. For so S. Paule saith The Gospel of the Vncircuncision was committed vnto me as the Gospel of the Circuncision vnto Peter God that was mightie in Peter in the Apostleship of the Circuncision was mightie in me emong the Heathens Therefore if the Pope this day vvil claime only by Peters title and require no more then Peter had then must he seeke his Primacie emongest the Ievves vvhere Peter had his iurisdiction limited and not at Rome emong the heathen Christians emong vvhom as S. Paule saith he had not much to doe Harding The lewdnes of this licencious Minister passeth al reason He excludeth not only the Pope from the gouernement of the whole Churche but also from his owne Chaire at Rome neither only the Pope but euen the blessed Apostle S. Peter And he thinketh him selfe to haue the Scripture agreable vnto his malicious and fonde conceite VVhy S. Peter had to doo at Rome vvith the Gentile Christiās Mar. 16. S. Peter had to doo with those Christians at Rome which before had ben Heathens or Gentiles for foure special causes First bicause he was one of the twelue Apostles al which had to doo with any Christiā whether he had ben Iewe or heathen before For Christ said to them al Go ye into the whole world and preach the Gospel to euery creature that is to say to men of al nations were they Iewes or Gentiles So that who so euer denieth that S. Matthew S. Thomas or who soeuer els of the Apostles had to doo with the Christians being conuerted from their heathenish Idolatrie he denieth plainly Gods word If then euery Apostle had right to exercise any Apostolike duetie at Rome in case he had come thither what ignorance is it to say that S. Peter could not doo that in Rome which any one of the twelue might lawfully haue donne Secondly Christ him selfe hauing said before Ioan. 10. that he had other sheepe beside the Iewes whiche he would bring into his Folde said afterward to S. Peter Feede my lambes Ioan. 21. Feede my sheepe Seing then the Heathens or Gentiles that became faithful were Christes sheepe they were commended also vnto S. Peter And therefore he had to doo with them aboue al other men Thirdly God chose that is to say purposely prouided that the Gentiles should heare the worde of the Gospel by S. Peters mouth Actor 10. 15. and beleue Therefore it was the special wil and choise of God that S. Peter should haue to doo with the Heathens that should be conuerted which is directly against your saying M. Iewel VVhen S. Peter came vnto Rome Euseb Histor eccles lib 2. c. 14. Hierom. in Catalo VVhen came S. Paule vnto Rome Euseb Ecclesiast Hist lib. 2. cap. 22. Fourthly S. Peter came to Rome before S. Paule For S. Peter came thither in the dayes of Claudius the Emperour as Eusebius and S. Hierome with diuers others doo witnesse And there he preached the Gospel salutaris praedicationis verbo primus in vrbe Romae Euāgelij sui clauibus ianuam regni coelestis aperuit and first opened the gate of the heauēly Kingdom in the Citie of Rome with the keies of his Gospel by the word of heathful preaching But S. Paule came to Rome long after in the daies of Nero the Emperour as Eusebius also recordeth S. Peter therefore must nedes haue to doo with those Christians who were conuerted at Rome no lesse then S. Paule And thence also S. Peter wrote his first epistle as Papias one of the Apostles scholars doth witnesse Euseb Histor lib. 2. cap. 15. Did not you know al this M. Iewel as wel as I How chaunceth it then you are so impudent as to bring into doubte whether S. Peters See Apostolike was ouer the Heathens at Rome or no You answer for so saith S. Paule What doth he say that S. Peter was not ouer the faithful Heathens at Rome He neither saith it nor meaneth any such thing His meaning is to shew that he was made an Apostle not by Peter or Iohn or Iames or by any other man but only by Iesus Christe And therefore although three yeres after his conuersion he went to Ierusalem Gal. 1. Gal. 2. to see Peter and fourteen yeres afterward he cōferred with him concerning the Faith which he preached yet neither Peter nor Ihon nor Iames did geue him any thing or make him either the better learned or endewed him with more power and authoritie But rather they ioined handes with S. Paule and tooke him into their fellowship Why so In consideration that they saw God had no lesse committed to him the preaching of the Gospel vnto the Gentiles then he had before cōmitted to Peter the preaching of the gospel vnto the Iewes And how saw they either this or that Bicause the effect shewed it so For as God had wrought mightily emong the Iewes in conuerting them by S. Peters preaching so they saw that he wrought mightily emong the Gentiles by cōuerting them at the preaching of S. Paule So that by the very euente of the matter they saw that S. Paule was called in deed of God to the Apostleship S. Paule then meant not in these wordes that S. Peter by Christes cōmission had to doo only with the Iewes and him selfe only with the Gentiles Act. ca. 13. For S. Paule had also to do with the Iewes and he preached to them in their Synagogs through diuers partes of Asia and otherwhere Yea at Rome it selfe he preached to the Iewes Act. 28. Shame it is to you M. Iewel the shame of ignorance I meane or which is more likely the shame of impudencie if you see not that both S. Peter had to doo with the Gentiles and S. Paule with the Iewes and eche of them with both But what saying of holy scripture or of holy doctour did you
euer allege against the truth without some corruptioÌ„ In S. Paules words you leaft out a smal word in appearance but yet great of strength The worde 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 enim M. Ievv corrupteth S. Paule which in english doth signifie for This word for geueth great light to S. Paules meaning For wheÌ„ he had said that the preaching of the Gospel to the Gentiles was coÌ„mitted vnto him euen as the preaching of the Gospel to the Iewes was coÌ„mitted vnto S. Peter least any man should thinke that he meant of a special commission purposely reserued to him alone by God he declareth how that commission might be proued Qui enim operatus est Petro For he that hath wrought in Peter in the Apostleship of the Circuncision that is to saie of the Iewes hath wrought in me also emong the gentiles That same enim for doth make the place plaine They knew that God had no lesse committed the Gentiles to Paule then the Iewes to Peter How knew they it For he wrought now as mightily with Paule emong the Gentiles as he had wrought before with Peter emong the Iewes So that S. Chrysostome wel noteth Chrysost in 2. ca. ad Galat. non dixit postquà m audissent sed cognouissent hoc est ex ipsis didicissent factis He said not after they had heard but after they had knowen that is to say after they had learned by the deedes them selues Marke M. Iewel marke the deedes them selues It was now the commission of the deedes whereby God declared him selfe to haue wrought in them both But that not withstanding S. Peter did might and ought to preache vnto the Gentiles and to plant and dispose their Churches no lesse then S. Paule And S. Paule might likewise plante dispose and order the Iewes Churches For their right was one concerning the Apostolike authoritie Iewel VVhere you say that according to the ecclesiastical Canons euer from the Apostles time Bishops haue euermore ben consecrated by three other bishops vvith the confirmation of the bishop of Rome Harding I said M. Ievv falsifieth my saying with the consent of the Metropolitane which you haue here pared awaie and Confirmation of the Bishop of Rome I added also thus Vnitie hath euer benne kepte whiche you also haue vntruly leaft out Iewel Pag. 129. As if vvithout him no man might be allovved to be a Bishop yee should not so vnaduisely report so manifest Vntruth For I besech you vvhere be these Ecclesiastical Canons VVho deuised them VVho made them VVho gaue the Pope that singular priuilege that no Bishop should be admitted in al the vvorlde but onely by him Harding Among the Canons of the Apostles this is the first Episcopus à duobus aut tribus Episcopis ordinetur Let a Bishop be ordered or made Bishop by two or three Bishoppes These Canons are allowed by the sixth General Councel Yet can you aske where be these Ecclesiastical Canons who deuised them who made them By a Decre of Hilarius no Bishop can be coÌ„secrated without the Metropolitanes consent What Consecration could M. Iewel and his felowes haue who hath neither Metropolitan at al nor lawful Bishop to Consecrate them Howbeit touching this I nede to saie litle for in the very nexte side of the leafe M. Iewel confuteth him selfe Where as one that had quite forgoten him selfe he saith thus Our Bishoppes are made in Fourme and Order as they haue benne euer by free election of the Chapter by the Consecration of the Archebishop and other three Bishoppes If this be the Fourme and Order of making Bishops that hath benne euer to be Consecrated by tharchebishop and three other Bishops why were you so hote against me in calling for th'Ecclesiastical CanoÌ„s which you bind your selfe now to shew or elles you must confesse that you haue made this new order that hath not ben euer Anacletus In epist Decret The Popes autoritie of coÌ„fiming Bishops is of Christ Ioan. 21. But now concerning the Popes authoritie to confirme Bishops to omit for this present the olde Canon of Pope Anacletus which is afterward alleged and to shew the first author of this mater Christe who made Peter the chiefe Pastour of al and who gaue commission to him louing him more then the other Apostles did to feede accordingly as he loued that is to feede more then the oâ—her Apostles did Christe who inspired Peter to goe to Rome and there to settle the Apostolike See and Chaire of his Bishoply Primacie Christe who inspired Peter to make S. Clement and the other Bishoppes of Rome his Successours gaue the Bishop of Rome Peters Successour this Priuiledge that no Bishop ought to be a Bishop without his consent For what reason can suffer that any man shal gouuerne any part of those sheepe whiche are al committed to the Bishop of Rome without the Bishop of Romes consent which consent is a Confirmation sufficient to any Bishop for the due gouernmeÌ„t of his flocke Now this consent of the Bishop of Rome was many wayes knowen For when soeuer he coÌ„sented to the general order of the catholik Church to wit that he should be a Bishop whosoeuer were laufully chosen by the Clergie Optatâ—us lib. 2. Communicatorie letters then his coÌ„sent was geuen generally And when after the election made coÌ„municatorie letters thereof came to Rome as to be head place of the Christian CoÌ„munion then was the said Bishop specially coÌ„firmed and so coÌ„firmed that the Pope could not choose but coÌ„firme him except he could make any iust exceptioÌ„ against him For as no man ought to gouuerne in the Church without the Popes confirmatioÌ„ when it may coÌ„modiously be had without impediment euen so the Pope must nedes confirme those who are lawfully chosen except he wil vpon good ground change the gouuernmeÌ„t of the Dioces to a more profitable order as many times it hath ben don This mater would require a large Treatise But it is in part handled already in my first booke set forth against the Articles of your ChaleÌ„ge M. Iew. wher you might haue sene what I alleged why the Pope should confirme Bishops so that now this thing should not haue ben so strange vnto you Ievvel Pag. 129. I remember your Canonistes haue said Felin D. constitut ca. Canonum statuta col 6. ver fallit M. Ievvel speaketh as if he had ben a Canonist many yeres agoe the Pope may make a Bishop only by his vvorde vvithout any farther Consecration Harding Do you remember it M. Iewel It was clearkly spoken forsooth and in such sort as if you had ben an olde studeÌ„t of the CanoÌ„ law many a winter past and that now whiles you had ben occupied in higher maters yet some of these former meditations had come againe to your minde and worthily For it was a thing much to be mused vpon of him that occupieth a Bishops place what Felinus or Panormitan said coÌ„cerning the Pope The truth is M. Iewel you either had this
yet haue benne more plaine if you M. Iewel had not practized your olde false sleight in cutting of my wordes For when I had asked whether D. Capon Shaxton Campegius or Audley or any other bishops of Sarisburie taught your doctrine I answered thereunto it is most certaine they did not How be it I staied not there but went forward to remoue that your obiection of Capon and Shaxton whiche I forsawe you would make And thereunto I said thus How so euer those two first named Capon M. Ievvel left out al these wordes bicause thei ansvvered him fully and Shaxton onely in some parte of their life taught amisse how afterward they repented abhorred your heresies and died Catholikes it is wel knowen Now beside these whome els can you name Al these wordes of myne you leafte out M. Iewel as if I had neuer printed them You leafte them out not onely by not answering them but also you did not suffer them to be printed in your booke emong myne owne wordes leaste you should haue benne answered before you had replied as most times you are as it should appeare if it would please the Reader but to vew and peruse my woordes ouer againe and diligently to conferre them with yours Which I wish him to doo not only for trial of this point but also al others whereof so euer both we haue treated And he shal say you were answered before you made the Replie confuted before you made your pretensed Defence But what conscience haue you that liue at least mainteine the life of your estimation among them of your Secte by lying by dissembling by cutting of by adding vnto by mangling your Doctours briefly by deceiuing the reader one waie or other You were ashamed to haue no predecessour at al in the See of Sarisburie and to be like Nouatian or Donatus and such other the like Heretikes And therefore you name two Predecessours both which protested at their death that you and al your felowes are Heretikes and repented that euer they communicated with you so farre as they did Thus you come of your selfe as the Deuil doth and shal come in his chief member Antichrist And you come not holding by lineal Succession nor by lawful Sending as Christ came being sent of his father and being borne of the seede of Dauid and of Abraham But you are without Predecessours and I am sure if God for our great sinnes forsake not our Coūtrie you shal not long haue Successours Iewel For the rest of the bishops that vvere before them vvhat faith they held and vvhat they either liked or misliked by their vvritinges or sermons it doth not greatly appeare Harding What neede wordes when dedes speake It is euident they kepte that which they receiued of S. Augustine our Apostle and that which was before and afterward beleeued in al Christendome Thei said Masse they adoured Christes body in the blessed Sacrament who doubteth of it They asked their cōfirmation of the bishop of Rome and acknowledged him to be the Apostle S. Peters Successour Therefore they were not your Predecessours in faith and doctrine you may be assured M. Iewel Iewel I trust they held the foundatiō and liued and died in the faith of Christ Harding Now now M. Iewel you haue bewraid M. Ievvel be wraith him selfe what you teach in corners now that lurking heresie is cropen out whereof I spake in my Preface to you before my laste Reiondre touching the Sacrifice of the Masse There I shewed that the Catholike Church must be beleeued in al pointes of Religion and that they were Heretiques who persuaded them selues that it was inough to beleeue certaine Articles of the faith and to let the rest alone not regarding whether this or that be true But what cal you the Foundation of the true faith You knowe that al your Predecessours acknowleged the Popes Supremacie said Masse and beleeued the doctrine of the seuen Sacramentes and taught so Otherwise they had ben noted for Heretikes of others who liued together with them as you are of them who liue with you Seing then you know they did so what can you meane by the foundation but onely the beleefe of the Trinitie and of Christes birth death and Ascension As though it were inough to beleue those thinges what so euer become of the reste Math. 12. Math. 18. Luc. 10. But Christ saith he that is not with me is against me He that heareth not the Church let him be to thee as a heathē and a publicane He that heareth you heareth me he that despiseth you despiseth me and him that hath sent me And S. Paule saith 1. Tim. 3. Iacob 2. Agust epistol 29. ad Hieron The Church is the piller and sure stay of truth And S. Iames he that faileth in one is made giltie of all that is as S. Augustine expoundeth it he that faileth or sinneth against Charitie is giltie of al other faultes Nowe charitie is broken if vnitie be broken and vnitie is broken if the bishops beleeue not euery Article of the faith expressely which the Churche teacheth to be expresly beleeued Therefore either your predecessours were with you or against you There is no midle or meane With you they were not bicause they taught seuen Sacramentes and the Popes supremacie and the Sacrifice of the Masse c. Therefore they were against you And then ye are the first of that faith and doctrine whiche now ye teache You therefore came of your selfe and are without Predecessours Iewel 131. If they had liued in these dayes and seene that you see they vvould not haue ben partakers of yours vvilfulnesse Harding These are the wordes of an Antichrist who seeking to make him selfe equal with Christ doth vse such Phrases by his wicked members as Christe did vse concerning his owne person In deede Christ and only Christ might say such wordes bicause he only shewed such miraculous workes that were hable to haue turned Sidō and Tyrus Ioan. 2. 10. or any other hard harted people But what haue we seene in these dayes M. Iewel which would haue ben hable to haue made al your Predecessours to haue yelded vnto your new faith Haue ye spoken with al tonges as the Apostles did Nay ye haue cōfoūded and dispersed them as it was done at the building vp of the toure of Babylō For whereas in holy matters and specially in the Church Seruice we seemed to be deliuered from the curse of the Diuisiō of tongues bicause many nations of diuers lāguages were vnited and knit together in one Latine or Greeke Church Seruice you go about to set the worlde againe as farre a part by diuers vulgare tongues as euer it was before Christes cōming Haue ye built vs new Churches or schooles or hospitalles or colleges Nay ye haue pulled downe the olde and defaced them to the vttermost of your power Haue ye made peace in the earth and reconciled al dissensions Ye haue rather diuided the subiecte
and the authoritie of Pope Coelestinus resisteth the impietie of Nestorius And yet is Pope Coelestinus a Nestorian No truly but M. Iewel prooueth him selfe a most impudent Lyer and a wicked sclaunderer Iewel Pope Honorius vvas a Monothelite heretique Harding Of Pope Honorius Now at length M. Iewel you say that which hath some face of truth For Honorius in deede fel into the heresie of the Monothelites But he fel into it when as yet it was not euidently condemned by the Churche in any general Councel He fel into it but he defended it not and yet the crime of heresie is not properly incurred without a stubborne defence of falsehod Againe he did not only not make any heretical Decree touching the defence of that heresie by the authoritie of the See Apostolike but rather as a publike person he did resist that heresie Platina in Honorio For he induced Heraclius the Emperour to bannishe Pyrrhus the Patriarke of Constantinople and Cyrus the Patriarke of Alexandria who were giltie of the Monothelite heresie How then standeth it together that Honorius did bothe fauour and hate the selfe same heresie Some men considering what he did say that he was falsly accused of the heresie but others thinke rather that in his harte he fauoured the heresie yet bicause the Romaine Churche to witte the Bisshoppes of Ostia of Porto of Preneste of Velitro of Sabini and suche others that hauing their bishoprikes neare there about are moste commonly resident in Rome or are moste easily assembled thither to euery Consistorie with a great number of Priestes of Deacons and of other learned men who are the Councel Cypria in epist ad Clerum vib Rom. and Senate of the Pope bicause I say they are and euer haue benne euen from the beginning men of great experience as it may appeare in S. Cyprians workes and of constancie in the faith as who liued with diuerse Popes one after the other bicause then this reuerend companie were knowen to resiste as wel the Monothelite heresie as al other heresies it standeth wel together that Pope Honorius albeit in his owne person he fauoured that heresie Pope Honorius only burdened vvith the crime of heresie among the Popes yet durst not to publishe it in the cōmon assemblie but contrarywise did there as they gaue him Councel Whereby it came to passe that he both deposed Monothelites openly and yet fauoured their opinion priuily And this is the only Pope who may iustly be burdened with heresie But now consider good Reader the worke of God when he should come to confirme his brethrene that is to say to doo any open thing whereby the other Bisshoppes might be established in their faith then was he constrained to doo that whiche might edifie and not hinder the true faith that God might be iustified in his woordes Math. 16. who sayd to S. Peter vppon this rocke I wil builde my Churche and Hel gates shal not preuaile against it Luc. 22. and thou being once conuerted confirme thy brethrene feede my sheepe Ioan. 21. feede my lambes For when Honorius came to this pointe whether in publike Consistorie the Monothelite heresie whiche taught that there was but one wil in Christe should be allowed or no! then as Platina recordeth the Pope infourmed the Emperour as wel by letters as by messangers that Christe had two willes and that was done by the common assemblie and the letters went as the deede of the See and Churche of Rome whereas in the meane time Honorius was of an other minde within him selfe And they that are about great personages knowe right wel that they doo many times sende many messages and letters through the aduise of their Councel whiche the greate personages them selues would not haue to take place Thus we see a double person in him that gouerneth one which he hath in respecte of his owne priuate minde and iudgement the other which he hath or rather taketh as put vpon him by the publike office which he beareth Now concerning the matter of Succession the publike person is only to be regarded which in Pope Honorius was Catholike For that is the personage whiche may hurte or hinder the Church Of that publike personage Pope Agatho who followed not long after Honorius doubted not to write as it is recited in the sixth general Councel Act. 4. Concil 6. General Act. 4. concerning this very heresie of the Monothelites Apostolicae memoriae meae paruitatis praedecessores dominicis doctrinis instructi ex quo nouitatem haereticam in Christi immaculatam Ecclesiam Constantinopolitanae Ecclesia praesules introducere conabantur nunquam neglexerunt eos hortari atque obsecrando commonere vt a praui dogmatis haeretico errore saltem tacendo desisterent ne ex hoc exordium dissidij in vnitate Ecclesiae facerent vnam voluntatem vnámque operationem duarum naturarum asserentes in vno Domino nostro Iesu Christo The predecessours that were before me seelie man that I am men of Apostolike memorie and instructed in the Doctrine of our Lorde since that the Bishops of Constantinople endeuoured to bring an heretical noueltie into the vnspotted Church of Christe neuer ceased to exhorte them and with earnest meane to admonish them that they would at the least wise by forebearing talke surcease from the heretical errour of their wicked opinion least affirming that there was in our Lord Iesus Christe but one wil and one operation of two natures hereby they should cause strife to beginne in the vnitie of the Church Thus the predecessours of Agatho emong whom Honorius was one did as he reporteth alwaies openly defende the Catholique faith against the Monothelites It is to men knowen perhaps sometimes that the Pope or prince leadeth an euil life as for example in fornication or in Aduouterie Yet so long as their lawes forbid them bothe the menne are of euil example but the lawes are good and holesom and the common Weale is wel prouided for But if once Aduouterie or Fornication should be made lawful by Lawe as some menne say that vserie somewhere is then is the common Weale domaged No heresie euer decreed openly by any of the Popes But sithens the time that S. Peter sate first at Rome God hath wrought this miraculous yea thrise miraculous worke that there was neuer yet any open Assemblie or Synode kepte wherein any Heresie by any one of so many as haue ben S. Peters Successours was euer decreed The publique sentence and iudgement of the See Apostolike in matters of faith was neuer to this daie defiled or defaced with false doctrine That is the Succession which we holde of and whereof S. Augustine said so long time past August in Psalmo contra partem Donati Numerate c. Recken vp by tale the priestes euen from the very seate of Peter and in that rew of Fathers see who succeded other that is the Rocke which the proude gates of Hel doo not ouercome Iewel
am ioyned in communion to the Chaire of Peter vpon that Rocke I knowe the Churche is builte Iewel Pope Adrian the fourth vvas vvoont to saye vve succede not Peter in feeding but Romulus in killing Harding Were it true you would haue named your authour Now your saying semeth to procede out of your owne Forge But what if it were true that Pope Adrian said so by waye of complaint This proueth that as some of his predecessours were euil men so alwaies God gaue his grace to some other Popes to disallowe their faultes and yet to continewe their Faith Doctrine and Succession Iewel Pag. 132. And to leane Dame Ioan the vvoman Pope vvith many others mee of like vertue and holinesse as hauing no pleasure in this rehersal Harding There was no such woman Pope and yet God knoweth you take stil great pleasure in the rehersal of a vaine dreame as you doo of many other false tales dreamed first by Martinus Polonus Iewel For as much as M. Harding began this matter vvith Sarisburie to ende it vvith the same Ioannes Sarisburiensis saith In Polya cratico in Romana Ecclesia sedent Scribae Pharisaei In the Church of Rome by Succession sitte the Scribes and Pharisees Harding The matter that I began here to treate of was not of Sarisburie but of your SuccessioÌ„ in Sarisburie for which notwithstanding the huge stuffe you bring you shewe your selfe to haue nothing to saie Touching Ioannes Sarisburiensis if it were so that Scribes and Pharisees sate in the Churche of Rome yet you should be damned for departing from them 3. Reg. 12. euen as Ieroboam was for departing from the Chaire of Moyses You are bound to communicate in Doctrine with the chiefe Chaier what soeuer they be that sit in it For Christe bad vs kepe that Matt. 23. which they commaunde Now as the Scribes and Pharisees sitting in the Chaire of Moyses did exactly kepe his Succession and witnessed the continuance of that Temple whereunto al the Iewes were bound So the Popes of Rome sitting in S. Peters Chaire do exactly mainteine his Succession and witnesse that to be the true Rocke and Churche whereunto al we are bound to be obedient as sheepe to the chiefe Pastour But sith you are desirous to end this matter begonne as you saye of Sarisburie with Sarisburie whereby you meane the auctoritie of Ioannes Saresburiensis therewith I am right wel contente For your parte that is to say against the Churche of Rome whose faith we professe whatsoeuer be the manners of some great persons in that Churche you allege Iohn of Sarisburie saying that Scribes and Pharisees sitte in the Churche of Rome True it is these wordes be in Iohn of Sarisburie in deede As for the Addition by Succession it is your owne it is not his But you must vnderstand they be not his owne wordes as spoken by him selfe but reported by him as wordes of the common people For being required of Pope Adrian the fourth who was an Englishman in familiar talke whereto for his learning and wisdome he was admitted to declare freely what was commoÌ„ly said abroade of the Pope and of the Churche of Rome among other thinges bruted abroade by waye of complaint specially against the Briberie and coueteousnes of great personages of that Churche he rehersed those wordes out of the Gospel Matt. 23. At the ende of his tale thus he concluded Iohannes Sarisburiensis in Polycratico de curialium nugis lib. 6. cap. â—4 signifiing whose tale he tolde Haec inquam Pater loquitur populus quandoquidem vis vt illius tibi sententias proferam These thinges Father the people speaketh for asmuch as you wil haue me to vtter vnto you what they saie Thus M. Iewel by testimonie of your Ihon of Sarisburie you proue nothing against our Doctrine of Succession but onely put vs in mynd what the common people in those dayes said of the gouernours of the Church If you would with as good sinceritie haue alleged on the other side what good he in the same booke and Chapter reporteth of them as with malice you reherse the euil you should haue laid forth a very good tale for them For immediatly after the wordes before rehersed thus it foloweth there Et tu inquit quid sentis And what is your opinion quod the Pope Thereto answereth Iohn of Sarisburie Angustiae inquam sunt vndique Vereor enim ne mendacij vel adulationis cortraham notam si solus populo contradixero Sin autem reatum vereor Maiestatis ne tanquam qui os in coelum posuerim crucem videar meruisse I am driuen quod he to straightes on euery side For I feare me I shal be noted for a Lyer or a flatterer if I alone be in my tale contrarie to the people Elles if I should saie as they saie I feare the gilte of treason least I seme to haue deserued the pounishment of death being as it were one that haue set my mouth vp against heauen This Preface semeth to conteine the wordes of one that intendeth to vtter the truth plainly and discretely And although there in deede he touche the Popes and the Romaine Clergies faultes freely yet on the other side he confesseth him selfe moued in coÌ„science to speake muche also in the praise of many These be his wordes Vnum tamen audacter conscientia teste profiteor Ibidem quia nusquà m honestiores Clericos vidi quà m in Ecclesia Romana aut qui magis auaritiam detestentur Albeit some be faulty yet one thing my conscience bearing me witnesse I dare be bolde to saie that no where I haue sene Clerkes of more honestie then in the Churche of Rome or that doo more deteste coueteousnes Of such good and vertuous Clerkes there he reckeneth vp some by name At length speaking of the number of the good in general he saith Plurium tanta modestia tanta grauitas est vt Fabriciâ— non inueniantur inferiores quem agnita salutis via modis omnibus antecedunt The modestie and grauitie of the more parte of them is so great that they are founde nothing inferior to Fabricius the noble Romaine of famous memorie for his vertue whom in respecte of that they acknowlege the waie of Saluation which he knew not being an Infidel by al meanes they passe and excelle Then folow these wordes immediatly which are most to our purpose and most worthy of consideration Quia verò instas vrges praecipis cùm certum sit quòd Spiritui sancto mentiri non licet fateor quia quod praecipis faciendum est si non sitis omnes operibus imitandi Nam qui a doctrina vestra dissentit aut haereticus aut schismaticus est For asmuche as you are instant vpon me and wil haue no nay and commaunde me to saie what I thinke sith it is certaine that I maie not lye vnto the holy Ghoste I graunte that what you commaunde vs to doo we must doo although ye be not
man in the time when the faith was persecuted by heathen Tyrātes made promise and profession of Idolatrie Thurificati onely by casting a litle frankencense into the Fier when they vttered no wordes of Idolatrie at al. Many other such exāples might here easily be rehersed by which it is declared that a man in some cases voweth promiseth and professeth a thing good or euil in acte and deede where wordes of Vowe promise or professiō be not spoken And to this sense the common English prouerbe if it may be applied to so sad a matter leadeth vs As good is a becke as a Dieu garde wherby is meant a cōsent Vovv of Chastitie made in silence Concil Ancyran cap. 10. geuen by dede without worde But what neede I to proue this by examples The plaine texte of the tenth Canō of the most auncient Coūcel of Ancyra aboue rehersed putteth this matter out of doubte Where it is said of Deacons that if when they receiued the Bishops laying on of hand vpon them they required not licence to marrie but helde their peace thereby professi continentiā be the wordes of the Councel hauing vowed promised or professed to continew in Chastitie in case afterward they married they should geue ouer the holy ministerie Lo there by taking the holy order only without wordes of a Vowe expressed the promise and Vow of Chastitie is by those learned Fathers pronounced to be made Neither is the partie that after holy Orders taken marrieth excused by that he ceaseth from the ministerie The cessation from the ministerie is a pounishement in the courte of man there remaineth to such a one an other pounishmēt in the courte of God for his breache of promise Thus it is cleere that the Priestes of England were Votaries as wel as other Priestes of the Latine Church be which M. Iewel only vpon warrant of his owne auctoritie denieth Sith then it is so Reader that M. Iewel keepeth him selfe a luffe of and wil not come to the point wherein the controuersie lyeth not being hable in deede to iustifie the marriage of them that haue taken holy Orders or otherwise haue made Vow of Chastitie I thinke it good here briefly to reherse the summe of his allegatiōs wherwith he hath blotted so much paper about this matter The summe of M. Ievvels allegations for proufe of priestes marriages Hauing denied the Priestes of Englād to be Votaries he bringeth in sayinges of Fathers reporting that Virginitie is a harde thing and that it is not in our choise but the mere gifte of God Which thing as it maketh nothing to the present purpose so I graunte to be true We ought not to choose that state of life but vpon good trial of our selues But when we haue taken that yoke vpon vs it behoueth vs to pray for the assistance of Gods grace and to vse al suche good meanes by whiche we may atteine helpe towardes the perfourmance of our promise Then he allegeth other sayinges counseling those that either can not or wil not keepe Chastitie to take the remedie that God hath ordeined that is to say to marrie Which counsel is vnderstanded to be geuen vnto them that haue made no Vow at al to the contrarie After this he bringeth in certaine testimonies speaking in fauour as they seeme of marriage after a Vow of Chastitie taken out of S. Cyprian S. Augustine Epiphanius S. Hierome In al which places those holy Fathers are to be vnderstanded to speake of them that haue made a secret or simple Vow as they terme it and not a Solemne Vow Neither doo they allow such marriages simply Bonifac. 8. in c. vnico de voto in 6. The determination of the Churche in vvhat case of a Vovve made marriage holdeth in vvhat case it holdeth not For vvhat reason marriage holdeth in the case of a Simple Vovv othervvise in the case of a Solemne Vovve but in cōparison of a woorse iniquitie The matrimonie of such is not to be dissolued yet is the breache of their promise a mortal sinne Now so it is by determinatiō of the Church that a Solēne Vow is made at the professiō of any approued Religiō and at the taking of holy Orders and by whom such Vow is made they may not go backe to marriage neither if they marrie doth that marriage holde but is taken for none In the case of a simple Vowe marriage standeth for good and may not be dissolued albeit the partie who Vowed and promised the contrarie by contracting marriage as I said sinneth mortally The reason hereof is this In a Simple Vowe there is made but a bare Promise and the dominion of the thing which is promised remaineth stil with him that promiseth But in a Solemne Vowe there is not onely a promise but also a deliuerie made of the thing that is promised asmuche to say of him selfe and so there is also an acceptation and a possession to the interest of Christ taken of the Churches part This is the differēce betwixt both And it is a thing natural and apperteining to the lawe of al nations that a bare promise be of lesse efficacie then the exhibitiō surrendre and deliuerie of Possessiō of the thing that is promised He that hath promised one a howse or a portion of Lande hath not yet taken away from him selfe the dominion of the thing Wherefore if afterward he make deliuerie of it to an other the deliuerie shal stand for good Yet to the other he is bounde to make recompense which commonly is iudged to be the valour of the thing promised And he that hath now deliuered vnto an other a howse or Lande hath altogether depriued him selfe of the dominion thereof neither can he now geue it to an other as being an others thing The case is like in the Vowe of Chastitie which is a certaine cōtracte betwen man and God And reason it is that what we acknowlege ourselues bound to perfourme vnto mā in a worldly cōtract we be bound to perfourme no lesse vnto God in this spiritual cōtracte The bare promise made to God differeth much from the exhibiting and therfore if after a simple Vow of Chastitie which cōsisteth in promise only a man deliuer his body to another which thing is done by Matrimonie the deliuerie standeth firme and good But if he geue vp also his owne body to keepe chastitie vnto God and by entring into some Religion or by taking Orders now he can not dispose of it otherwise as not being in his dominion neither if he attempt it shal it stand for good This muche touching the diuersitie of a Simple and Solemne Vow I thought necessary to be said in this place This much being weighed and considered it must appeare certaine that the places which M. Iewel allegeth out of S. Augustine affirming the mariages of such as marrie after the Vow of chastitie to be true mariages and to be such as may not be dissolued are truly vnderstanded of
husband of one wife that the same order contineweth stil in the Church thereto he saieth in his secoâ—d homilie de patientia Iob non ea ratione quod id nunc in Ecclesia obseruetur Oportet enim omni prâ—rsus castitate Sâ—cerdotem ornatum esse S. Paule sayeth he required this not in consideration that the same be nowe obserued in the Church For it behoueth a Bishop to be garnished with al manner a chastitie Iewel Here commeth M. Hardinge in a lofte vvith Io Triumphe as hauing beaten dovvne al the vvorld vnder his feete And as being already in sure possession of the victorie he crieth out Impudencies Loude his foule Faultes and pietie Fittens And ful terribly chargeth vs like a Conqueroure to render oure selues and to râ—cante for sonne This nevve courage is suddainly blovven vpon him for that he thâ—â—keth vve haue intruded vâ—on his office and as he saieth haâ—e corrupted and falsified the holy Fathers But it vvere a vvorthie matter to knovve vvherein Forsoothe vve saie by the reporte of Sozâ—menus and Gregorius Nazianzenus that Spiridion and Gregorie Father to Nazianzen being bothe Married Bishoppes notvvithstanding theire Marriage vvere neuer the vvâ—rsâ— hable to doo theire Ecclesiastical offices but rather the better * The vvordes importe it not Here M. Harding of himselfe and freely confesseth these Holy Fathers vvâ—re neâ—â—r the vvorse hable to dâ—â— their offices For so muche th◠〈◊〉 of 〈◊〉 importe 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 But that they vvere the better hable to doe theirâ— offices â—â—cause of theire VViues that he dâ—nieth vtterly and herein he saieâ—h me are corrupters and falsifiers of the Fathers And thus the vvhole difference that is betvvene M. Hardinge and vs touching this matter standeth onely in these tvvo poore vvordes Rather the better and â—euer the vâ—â—rse Novv gentle reader I beseche thee also Reader to vveigh my Ansvver that thou maiest be the better hable tâ— iâ—dge betvvene vs I beseeche the indifferently vveigh these vvâ—â—des Gregorie Nazianzene hereof that is of the helpe Vntruth for then he vvas not Bishop but an infidel Nazian in Epitaphiâ— patris that his Father 〈◊〉 being the Bishop of Nazianzum had by his vvife vvriteth thus Illa quae data est Adamo c. Eua that vvvas geuen to Adam for a helper for asmuch as it vvas nâ—â— good for man to be alone in steede of a helper became his enemie It follovveth Meo autem Patri Mater mea data illi à Deo non tantum adiutrix facta est id enim minus esset miruÌ„ sed etiaÌ„ dux princeps verbo factoque inducens illuÌ„ ad res optimas Et aliis quidem rebus quamuis optimum esset subditam esse viro propter iura coniugii tamen in pietate non verebatur seipsam illi magistram exhibere My mother being geuen to my father of God became not onely his helper for that had ben no great vvonder but also vvas his leader and Captaine She vvas his Maistresse before he knevv vvhat the faith of Christ vvas yet they serue you to no purpose False He vvas not then Bishop of Nazianzum nor yet a Christian bothe by vvord and by deede trayning him vnto the best And albeit in other thinges it vvere beste for her to be subiecte vnto her husbande for the right of marriage yet in religion and Godlinesse she doubted not to becomme his Maistresse These vvordes M. Hardinge be plaine and cleare and vvithout fitton Gregorie Nazianzen sayeth that his ovvne â—â—â—ther vvas vnto his father the Bishop of Nazianzum a helper and a directour both by vvorde and deede to leade him to the best and that in al other thinges being his inferiour yet in â—eligion and Godlinesse she vvas his * 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 VVhat a do vvould this fellovv make if he had me at a Vantage in deede that thus fareth vvithout cause as by the ansvver it shal better appeare Maistresse And yet mâ—st al these vvordes so open so plaine so cleare be drovvned vvith your simple distinction of Rather the better and neuer the vvorse Maie vve not novve allovve you vvith fauour to take al these that ye cal sitions lyes corruptions and falsifienges home againe vnto your selfe If you â—â—â—â—r crâ—â—le thâ—se tâ—â—â—ges before is 〈…〉 must remembre al truth must not be measured by your reading â–ª Harding To beginne with these last wordes as I require not al truth to be measured by my râ—â—ding M. Iâ—wâ—l so neither is it to be measured by your writing Whether I euer readde these thinges before or no it skilleth not Certaine it is where you readde al that ye haue here alleged out of S. Gregorie Nazianzene you readde also that whereby your false and vnreasonable assertion is confuted teaching that his Father being Bishop of NazianzuÌ„ learned the doctrine of Godlines of his wife Hauing read and seene the truth of this point in that very place and here conceeling it that you might not seeme confuted yea and so boldely auouching the contrarie how make you not al menne that know this witnesses of your falshode and impudencie M. Ievvels gay eloquence minister-like As for your vaine and light tauntes of my comming in a lofte with Io Triumphe of my terrible charging of you like a Conquerour of the new courage suddainly blowen vpon me and such other prety eloquence fitter for a Minister then for a sober man I can easily contemne No wise man that readeth my wordes for which ye ruffle so with me wil iudge you had iuste cause with suche sporte to delight your selfe Neither said I if you marke my wordes wel that you had corrupted and falsified the holy Fathers for that you said vpon reporte of Sozomenus and S. Gregorie Nazianzene that Spiridion and Gregorie Father to Nazianzene were for their marriage neuer the worse hable to serue God but rather the better which neuerthelesse is false but for that you speake it generally of a Bishop as though Bishops should doâ— that apperteineth to their charge the better if they married wiues For truth whereof I referre me to the place SpiridioÌ„ and Gregorie Nazianzenes father Those two holy Fathers were menne endewed with a singular and special grace and the example of so few is not to be drawen to be made a rule in general as I said in my Confutation Yet the most that is said of them is that they serued God neuer the worse by reason of their Marriage Againe M. Ievvel defeÌ„deth after his manner but fevv partes of the Apologie whereas I answered to euery parte of your Apologie in this place you defende but one thing by me confuted Neither to say the truth doo you defende the same but say what you were hable to shew some colour of a Defence This argueth that the other thinges you brought are fully confuted For elles why did you not defende them And this muche is the Reader here to be warned of by the waie That whereas most
added vnto Gratian and wel may this be so named bicause it is a thing forged and litle worthe And how could Damasus write of so many Popes whiche liued after his death certaine hundred yeres He saith alleging for his authour Fabian the late merchant of London Pag. 167. that Marriages of Priestes in England were free a thousand yeres together and yet it is euidēt that the English Clergie was gouerned according to the order which our Apostle S. Augustin leaft who by S. Gregories rule might not allow married Priestes He saith the Priestes of England were neuer Votaries for proufe he saith boldely it is knowen and confessed which stout asseueration maketh weake proufe And were it so then surely if any had maried although he had sinned thereby yet the mariage should haue continued whiche is knowen to haue alwaies benne vsed otherwise He calleth the Vow of Chastitie an euil promisse Pag. 168. 169. and an vnhonest Vow whiche worde was neuer yet spoken by any good or honest man For our Ladie vowed her chastitie vnto God Luc. 1. as it is euident by the interpretation of many holy Fathers vpon S. Lukes Gospel He denieth primam fidem the first faith in S. Paule to be meant of the Vow of Chastitie Pag. 170. 1. Tim. 5. whiche is directly against the aunciēt fathers doctrine For although it were expounded of baptisme also yet none but Heretikes euer denied it to apperteine to Vowes He beareth the world in hande as though we violently forced yong Maidens to receiue Vowes Pag. 171. It cōmeth of their owne choise and of Gods grace and not of any constraint of ours He turneth Offerre to Minister the oblation or holy communion Pag. 172. whereas it is to make the oblation before that it be ministred He taketh halfe the sense of S. Paule awaye concerning those whom he exhorteth to absteine from the vse of wedlocke for a certaine time of praier as I prooued before He saith Paphnutius alone was proctour for the truth against the whole Councel of Nice Pag. 173. intending thereby to bring his reader in beleefe that one is better then three hundred and seuenteen For 318. Bishoppes were at that Councel Thus he seeketh to discredite Councelles He burdeneth vs as seming to say that the cōpanie of man and wife is filthinesse which we say not but teach Marriage to be a Sacramēt but yet as not betwen father and daughter so neither betwene Frier and Nonne He saith I haue falsified S. Chrysostoms woordes But it is not so Pag. 174 For S. Chrysostom saith that neither he that had two wiues at once nor he who had ben againe married after his first wiues death may be made Priest by S. Paules rule he speaketh of the seconde Marriage after the first wiues death saying Qui defuncta vxori beneuolentiam non seruat he that rendreth not good wil to his wife being dead how can he be a good gouernour ouer the Church So that by S Chrysostomes interpretation S. Paule literally forbiddeth him to be made Priest who hath had mo Wiues then one whether it were at once or one after an other He corrupteth the text of S. Chrysostom putting for the Greeke word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 this Latine Pag. 175. Chrysost in epist ad Titum Hom. 2. quae discessit à se her that is gone frō him in stede of this worde defunctae which is dead His coniecture taken of the Greeke worde is void and nothing worth For 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 decedo doth signifie also to depart this life And it is plainer that S. Chrysostom expressely cōfesseth this sense which we defend saying Quidam hoc ita intelligunt vt ad episcopatū is assumatur qui vnius fuerit vxoris vir Some men do vnderstand this mater that he be taken to Bishophoode who hath ben the husband of one wife And that this last sense not being reproued of S. Chrysostome is the most literal sense it may appeare by these wordes of S. Paule Let her be chosen a widowe quae fuerit vnius viri vxor 1. Tim. 5. which hath ben the wife of one husband Wherefore as by the wife of one husband she is meant which hath not ben twise married so by the husbād of one wife he likewise is vnderstanded that hath not ben twise married Cassiodorus saith M. Iewel writeth that Eupsychius who suffered Martyrdome being newe married Pag. 176. was a Bishoppe What a shameful corruption is this to adde the woorde Bishoppe vnto the text whereas it is euident by Sozomenus the authour of the Storie and by Nicephorus that Eupsychius was a laie gentleman of Cesarea in Cappadocia as is before declared What vile forgerie is this M. Iewel to turne a Gentleman or a Noble man into a Bishop only that a Bishop might seeme to haue married So litle can your Marriages of Bishoppes and Priestes be mainteined without Lies He leaueth out the better halfe of the Glose reciting that parte Pag. 175. which the Glose alloweth not leauing that which it alloweth He saith that a good and diligent Bishop serueth rather the better bicause of marriage But how vntruly he saith it it is before sufficiently declared Certainly I may say were it true then Christ who was the best Bishoppe that euer was and omitted nothing whereby he might haue ben most perfite would haue ben married He saith S. Paule gaue rules to the Clergie that Bishops Pag. 182. and Deacons should be the husbādes of one wife the sense is not wel geuen It is to be vnderstanded that none other husbandes should be Bishops or Deacōs but such as had ben or were the husbandes of one wife He saith further immediatly after the former rule of one wife in the same tenour and course of speache S. Paule sheweth that some shal forbid to marrie This is false It doth not follow immediatly For there goeth betwen a cōmendation of the Church which S. Paule nameth the piller of truth and likewise of the Incarnation of Christ After which wordes S. Paule saith ◠Tim. 4. The spirit saith plainely that in the last daies some shal depart from the faith From whiche faith Verely from that faith of the incarnation and that whereof the Churche is the piller Marke the worde discedent à fide Discedent à fide they shal depart from the faith He that departeth from the faith once had the faith We neuer had your faith M. Iewel neither in any other point nor in this concerning the marriage of Priestes But we had and haue the faith that the lawful Marriage of Christian persons is a Sacrament and that faith had you once when you were baptized and incorporate in our Church You are gon from that faith and not we S. Paul then teacheth that some shal forbid Marriages as the Manichees Encratites and Marcionistes did of whom the Apostle prophecied as S. Chrysostom and diuers other Fathers doo expounde
of God Traditions c. The second Chapter Ievvel Pag. 193. In prooem in prouer Salomon Touching the booke of the Machabees vve saie nothing but that vve finde in S. Hierome S. Augustine and they holy fathers S. Hierom saith the Church receiueth them not emong the Canonical allovved scriptures Harding The bookes of the Machabees canonical emonge the faithful S. Hierome speaketh of such Canonical Scriptures of the olde Testament as the very Iewes allowed for Canonical Such in deede the bookes of the Machabees are not But why haue you not alleged S. Augustines wordes as wel as S. Hieromes Certainely bicause they condemne you For if yee said al that of the bookes of the Machabees which S. Augustine saith you would allowe them for Canonical Scriptures amonge faithful Christians August de De Ciuitat Dei lib. 18. ca. â—6 He saith Machabaeorum libros non Iudaei sed Ecclesia pro Canonicis habet As for the bookes of the Machabees not the Iewes but the Church accoÌ„pteth them for Canonical Hereunto I maiâ— adde but M. Iewel and his Companions accompte not the bookes of the Machabees for Canonical 〈◊〉 theâ—â—in they are of the Iewes Synagog and not of the Church of Christ Now see good Reader â–ª 〈…〉 be made when he said as thou findest noted in the mâ—rgeâ— of his booke Pag. 191. that he would denie no more then S. Austine S. Hierom and other Fathers haue â—enied If you say ye deny not the bookes of the Machabees â–ª 〈◊〉 â—eproue you praying for the dead which is so sufficiâ—â—â—y proued by those bookes Soothly if you allow the one you must allow the other Ievvel Pag. 193. S. Iames epistle Eusebius saith S. Iames Epistle vvas vvritten by some other and not by S. Iames VVe must vnderstand saith Eusebius that it is a bastard epistle Harding You haue abused Eusebius For he leaueth not there but goeth forward shewing what he ment by his word li. 2. c. 23. li. 2. c. 23. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 whiche you turne is a bastard But Ruffinus more ciuilly translated it à noÌ„nullis non recipitur The epistle is not receiued of some men And Eusebius him selfe addeth Nos tameÌ„ scinius etiaÌ„ istas cuÌ„ caeteris publicè aplerisque fuisse Ecclesiis receptas Yet we know that S. Iames and S. Iudes Epistles with the rest haue ben publikely receiued of most Churches wherby we learne that Eusebius meaÌ„t by the worde 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 asmuch to say as it is accompted of some men not to be S. Iames owne Touching his owne iudgement he sheweth him selfe to be of the opinion that it is S. Iames epistle Of some he coÌ„fesseth by those wordes that it was doubted of Therfore you haue reported Eusebius vntruly making him to pronounce negatiuely of the epistle which directly he hath not don Iewel S. Hierome saith It is said that the Epistle of S. Iames vvas set forth by some other man vnder his name Hiero. iâ— catalogâ— Harding I graunte But S. Hierom had said before those wordes which you allege Vnam tantum scripsit Epistolam quae de septem Catholicis est He wrote onely one epistle which is one of the seuen Canonical Epistles Hiero. iâ— catalogâ— Ecclesi script Againe after the wordes by you alleged it followeth that the said epistle in processe of time hath obteined authoritie Ievvel 194. VVe Lutherans and Zuinglians agree throughly together in the vvhole substance of the Religion of Christe Harding I perceiue the Sacrament of Christes body and bloud is no substantial point with you and yet he that receiueth it vnworthily 1. Cor. 11. receiueth his damnation And he can not receiue it worthily who beleeueth amisse of it But either the Lutherans or the Zuinglians or bothe beleeue amisse thereof bicause in that behalfe they â—eache cleane contrary doctrine Therefore either both as the truth is or one of those two sectes as them selues must confesse receiueth alwaies vnworthily and consequently they must confesse that one of the two sectes is vtterly damned without any hope of saluation And certainely the Zuinglians as also the Caluinistes are the worse bicause they beleeue Goddes word lesse in some degree then Luther taught and go further from the literal sense of his Gospel 1. Timo. 3. and from the beleefe of the Church which is the piller of truthe Iewel 194. The Church is not God nor is able of her selfe to make or alter any article of the faith Harding Esai 59. Ioan. 14. But she is the spouse of God and to her he hath promised both his wordes and his spirite to remaine with her for euer And therefore she is the chiefe witnes of al the articles of the faith Wherefore seing you hearâ— not her witnesse you ought to be vnto vs as an Heathen Matt. 18. and a Publican Iewel Isai 8. Esaie saith to the lavv rather and to the testimonie If they ansvver not according to this vvorde they shal haue no Morning light Harding Iere. 31. Hebre. 8. This lawe is written also in our hartes as Ieremie and S. Paul doo witnesse And the successours of the Apostles geue also a testimonie of Christe no lesse Ioan. 15. then Christe said the Apostles should doo Therefore the lawe and testimonie whereunto Esaie calleth is as wel that which is written in faithful mennes hartes and which is witnessed in the Church as that which is written in the olde and new Testament Iewel Pag. 194. M. Harding saith further If quietnesse of Conscience comme of the vvorde of God onely then had Abel no more quietnesse of conscience then vvicked restlesse Cain c. VVho vvould thinke that M. Harding bearing suche a countenance of Diuinitie vvould thus goe about to deceiue him false vvith a pointe of Sophistrie Harding Who would thinke that M. Iewel being pressed with a point whereunto he is not hable to make answere would not thus go about to deceiue his vnlearned Reader with a point of Sophistrie I praie thee reader take the paines to peruse what the Apologie saith what I haue said in my CoÌ„futation and what M. Iewel bringeth in the Defence touching this matter I desire no more but that thou read it and then iudge as thou seest cause It is an easy matter for M. Iewel when he hath made me to speake what he listeth to frame an answere accordingly But I must alwaies warne the reader not to beleue M. Iewel when so euer he reporteth either my wordes or any other mannes M. Ievv shifteth him selfe from Scripture to Goddes vvorde but to repaire to the Original Fot seldom is he founde cleere of the crime of falsifying And here he entwiteth me of Sophistrie wheras in deede he vseth the grossest sleight of Sophistrie him selfe He conueigheth him selfe from the Canonical Scriptures to Goddes worde Now I spake of the Scriptures and he answereth of Goddes worde Defence pag 191. Whereas it is said in the Apologie that
happeth bicause we yeelde and consent vnto sinne and not bicause the concupiscence of it selfe is sinne before we haue consented vnto it Ievvel 217. S. Augustine saith in most plaine vvise Contra Iulianum lib. 5. c. 3. The concupiscnce of the flesh against vvhich the good spirite lusteth is both sinne and the paine of sinne and the cause of sinne Yet the late blessed Chapter of Trident in spite of S. Augustine hath published the contrarie Harding Thus ye speake in spite of the CouÌ„cel Verely the CouÌ„cel of Trent did determine that which it fouÌ„d in S. Augustin who teacheth most manifestly that the CoÌ„cupisceÌ„ce is not properly sin but is only called so And thereby you know how S. Augustine is to be vnderstaÌ„ded in the place by you alleged His most plaine words are these Augustin coÌ„t duas epist Pelagi li. 1. ca. 13. Dicimus Baptisma dare oiÌ„m indulgentiaÌ„ peccatoruÌ„ et auferre crimina noÌ„ radere Sed de ista coÌ„cupiscentia carnis falli eos credo vel fallere cuÌ„ qua necesse est vt etiaÌ„ baptizatus hoc si diligeÌ„tissimè proficit spiritu Dei agitur pia mente confligat Sed haec etiaÌ„si vocatur PeccatuÌ„ non vtique quia peccatuÌ„ est sed quia peccato facta est sic vocatur Sicut sciptura manus cuiusque dicitur quòd manus eaÌ„ fecerit We say that Baptisme geueth remissioÌ„ of al sinnes and that it taketh crimes quit away and doth not shaue them as who would saye it leaueth not the rootes behind But I suppose that as touching this ConcupisceÌ„ce of the flesh they be either deceiued them selues or that they deceiue others For of this ConcupisceÌ„ce he also who is baptized yea though he profit neuel so wel and be guided with the spirite of God must of necessitie suffer in his Godly mind some conflicte But this Concupiscence albeit it be called sinne yet verely it is not so called bicause it is sinne but bicause it is made by sinne As for example any writing is called the hand of him that wrote it bicause the hand made it If then S. Augustine say most distinctly that the Concupiscence in them that are baptized is not a sinne how spitefully yea how falsely also haue you said that the Councel of Trent defined the contrarie in spite of S. Augustine I pray you be not so angry with the Councel of Trent If your stomake wil not holde in that spiteful humour but you must nedes vtter it yet wil truth be truth Of the Real presence of Christes Bodie in the Sacrament of the Aulter The 5. Chapter The Apologie Pag. 218. VVe saie that Eucharistia that is to saie the Supper of the Lorde is a Sacrament that is an euident representation of the Bodie and Bloude of Christ vvherein is sette as it vvere before our eies the death of Christ and his Resurrâ—ction and vvhat so euer he did vvhilest he vvas in his mortal Body to the ende vve maie geue thankes for his deathe and for our deliuerance And that by the often receiuing of this Sacrament vve may daily renevve the remembrance thereof to thintent vve being fedde vvith the Bodie and bloude of Christe may be brought into the hope of the Resurrection and of euerlasting life and maie most assuredly beleeue that as our bodies be fedde vvith bread and vvine so our soules be fedde vvith the Bodie and Bloude of Christe Confutation fol. 90. b. Among al these gay wordes we heare not so much as one syllable vttered whereby we may vnderstande that yee beleeue the very Bodie of Christe to be in deede present in the blessed Sacrament of the Aulter Ye confesse the Eucharistia whiche commonly ye cal the Supper of the Lorde to be a Sacrament and al that to be none other then an euident token of the Bodie and Bloude of Christe c. Iewel Defence Pag. 220. Here is no mention saith M. Harding of Real presence and thereupon he plaieth vs many a proper lesson Notvvithstanding here is as muche mention made of Real presence as either Christe or his Apostles euer made or in the Primitiue Catholique Church vvas euer beleeued Harding COnsidering how ofte this matter hath ben handled and how few men are ignorant what ech side saith I wil be the shorter in this place First I graunt the eating of Christes body by faith to be necessarie Againe I graunt the Sacrament to be a mystical figure of Christes death and of his visible body But I say farther that besides eating by Faith our flesh and body receiueth Christes body and that really Matt. 26. That these vvordes this is my body this is my Bloude are meant properly TertulliaÌ„ de resurr Carnis Which conclusion is proued bicause the wordes of Christ this is my body are meant properly and without any figure of speach albeit the manner of the presence be figuratiue My reason to proue that Christes wordes are meant properly is the perpetual interpretation of the auncient Fathers the sense and custome of the Churche To beginne with Tertullian he saith in this wise Caro abluitur vt anima emaculetur Caro vngitur vt anima consecretur Caro signatur vt anima muniatur Caro manus impositione adumbratur vt anima spiritu illuminetur Caro corpore sanguine Christi vescitur vt anima de Deo saginetur The flesh is washed that the soule may be made without spot The flesh is annointed that the soule may be consecrated The flesh is signified that the soule may be fenced The flesh is shadowed with the laying on of handes The flesh is the meane vvhereby the grace of God passeth vnto the soule that the soule also may be lightened with the holy Ghost The flesh is fed with the body and bloude of Christe that the soule also may be made fat of God In these wordes as diuers Sacramentes are ioyned together so herein they agree al that the flesh is the meane by which the grace of God passeth to the soule As therfore in Baptisme the flesh is washed that the soule may be cleansed so in the Sacrament of the Aulter the flesh is fed with the body and bloude of Christ that the soule may be nourished with the godhead which dwelleth in that fleshe It is then to be noted that the fleshe eateth not material bread and wine but the body and bloud of Christ For as the thing wherewith we are washed is water and that wherewith we are anointed is oile euen so that wherewith the flesh is fed is the body and bloud of Christ The instrument therefore of Gods grace is none other in the Supper beside that flesh wherein the fulnesse of the Godhed dwelleth It is wel knowen that our flesh hath no faith to eate Christes body withal Therefore when our flesh is said to be fed with Christes body it is clearly meant that our flesh is also really fed with Christes owne substance as it is washed with
water And as by water touching our flesh cleannes cometh to our soule euen so by the body of Christ touching our flesh the fatnes of God so TertulliaÌ„ speaketh that is to saie the plentiful grace of God commeth to our soule Coloss 2. For in that flesh God the sonne dwelleth corporally And by that only flesh grace is most abundantly ministred vnto vs for which cause that flesh is made the instrument of grace to vs. Ambros de Sacrament li. 6. cap. 1. Hereunto agreeth S. Ambrose Idem Dominus noster Iesus Christus consors est diuinitatis corporis tu qui accipis eius carneÌ„ diuinae eius substantiae in illo participaris alimento The same our Lord Iesus Christ is partaker both of Godhead and of body And thou which receiuest his flesh art made partaker in that foode of his Diuine substance There S. Ambrose spake of receiuing the Sacrament and expounded how Christe is the liuing bread that came downe from heauen Ioan. 6. His flesh saith he came not from heauen but whiles thou receiuest that flesh in that foode thou art made partaker of the godhead But if it were bread which we receiue at Christes supper in that foode of bread we should not be made partakers of the diuine substance For the diuine substance is in none other foode as to be receiued of vs but only in the flesh and bloude of Christ And there it is for our sakes and for that diuine substances sake the flesh of Christ is geuen really to vs that thereby the Godhead may the more mightily poure grace and the seede of immortalitie into our soules By faith we might feede of the Godhead but by that meanes onely we should not be made partakers of the godhead as by the best meane For the flesh of Christ with our faith is a better meane to deriue the godhead vnto vs then faith alone Faith suffised the olde Fathers bicause there was yet no better meane But when Christ had once taken flesh then his flesh together with saith Ioan. 1. was an other manner of meane to make vs partakers of more abundant grace Christe is touched novv of vs. Luc. 6. For now we touch really the flesh of Christ by the formes of bread and wine euen as in the daies when he liued in earth diuers personnes touched him by touching his garment which was about his flesh And by that meanes as they were most spedily healed so are we Chrysostom crieth out Chrysost in epistol ad ephes homil 3. Quomodo comparebis ante tribunal Christi qui manibus ac labijs immundis ipsius audes contingere corpus Et regem quidem nolles ore tuo foetido adosculari regem verò coeli anima graueolenti oscularis Oro te an voles manibus illot is ad oblationem accedere Atqui manibus quidem ad tempus continâ—tur in illâ—m ver◠〈…〉 resoluitur seu diuersatur Cur non vasa vides ita vndique lota ita splendida Illa non sunt capacia illius quem in se habent non sentiunt illum nos verò planè How shalt thou appeare before the throne of Christ who art so bold as with vncleane handes and lippes to touch his body Thou wouldest not aduenture to kisse the king with thy stincking mouth and wilt thou kisse the king of heauen with a foule stincking soule I praye thee wilt thou not washe thy handes before thou comest to the oblation And yet in thy handes he is holden but for a time but into the soule he is wholy resolued or there maketh his abode Wherefore beholdest thou not the vessels how they be cleane washed and shine ful brightly And yet they be not partakers of him nor feele him whom they conteine but we doo truly Christe holdeÌ„ in our hand In this discourse it is euident that we touch Christ in the Sacrament In so much that he saith the vessels hold him our handes holde him and our soule holdeth him Marke wel that the selfe same thing is in the vessels to wit in the patin and in the chalice and in the hand also which is in the soule Bread and wine are not in our soule but only Christes fleash Wherefore it is Christ also which is in the vessels and in our hand â–ª But he is holden in our hand saith S. Chrysostom ad tempus a while But he dwelleth in our soule none other wise then if one thing were made of bothe and one were resolued into the other Againe the vessels hold him but they partake him not bicause they lacke faith But it is the same Christ in the vessels and in our handes which is in our soule For from the vessels he commeth to our handes and from our handes into our bodies and so into our soules What extreme impudencie then is it to say that in these wordes S. Chrysostom meant not the bloud of Christ to be really in the Chalice and his body to be really vnder the forme of bread Leo the great saith Leo sermone 6. de ieiunio 7. mensis Christes bodie is receiued vvith mouthe ye ought so to communicate of the holy table that ye doubt nothing at al of Christes body and bloud Hoc enim ore sumitur quod fide creditur for that thing is taken in by mouth which is beleeued in faith But the thing beleeued in faith concerning Christes supper is the manhod and godhead of Christ Therefore the selfe nature of God and man is receiued in mouth What can be prentended here to the contrarie Cyrillus saith The mystical blessing Cyrillus lib. 10. in Ioan. c. 13. when it is becomme to be in vs doth it not cause Christ to dwel corporally also in vs by the coÌ„municating of his flesh Marke that the meane of Christes dwelling corporally in vs is the receiuing of the Sacrament And with Cyrillus it is wel knowen Hilarius de trinit lib. 8. Gregorius in Euangelia homil 22. how thorowly S. Hilarie agreeth Last of al S. Gregorie saith Quid sit sanguis Agni non iam audiendo sed bibendo didicistis Qui sangus super vtrumque postem ponitur quando non solùm ore corporis sed etiam ore cordis sumitur In vtroque etenim poste sanguis Agni est positus quando sacramentum passionis illius cum ore ad redemptionem sumitur ad imitationem quoque intenta mente cogitatur Nam qui sic redemptoris sui sanguinem accepit vt imitari passionem illius nec dum velit in vno poste sanguinem posuit What the bloud of the Lambe is ye haue now learned not by hearing but by drincking This bloud is put vpon both the postes when it is receiued not onely by the mouth of the body but also by the mouth of the soule For the bloud of the Lambe is put vpon both postes when the Sacrament of his passion is both receiued by mouth for our redemption and is also ernestly thought
these plaine wordes agreeth the Doctrine of the olde Fathers S Chrysostome saith Quod est in Calice id est quod è latere fluxit illius nos sumus participes That whiche is in the Chalice is that Chrysost in Ephe hom 3. whiche flowed from his side and thereof wee are partakers And againe Vasa non participant nec sentiunt Sanguinem quem in se habent nos verò planè The vesselles partake not ne feele not the bloude which they conteine in them but we do partake it And as there Chrysostome saith the vessels haue the same bloud of Christe for the time which commeth to our hartes and soules Augustin epist 86. S. Augustine also saith dicit cessisse panipecus tanquam nesciens tunc in Domini mensa panes propositionis ponisolere nunc se de agni immaculati corpore partem sumere Dicit cessisse poculo sanguinem non cogitans etiam nunc se accipere in poculo sanguinem Vrbicus saith that the Lambe of the newe Testament hath geuen place to the bread of the new Testament being ignorant that both then the shew bread was wont to be put vpon the table of our Lord and that now also he taketh his parte of the Body of the vnspotted Lambe He saith that bloude of the olde Testament hath geuen place to the cuppe not considering that he nowe also receiueth bloude in the Cuppe Marke Reader this comparison of S. Augustine that as the olde Fathers did eate of the Lambe so do we of the true Lambe Christe and as the Priestes of the Law had bloud in their basens euen so haue we in our cuppe whence we receiue it The oddes onely is that their bloude was onely the bloude of Calues not hable to cleanse man but our bloude is the bloude of Christe which cleanseth al sinnes Our Sacramentes therefore are the spiritual noueltie of the new Testament not lacking either Aulter or Fire or Breade or Lambe or Bloude but hauing them al in Christes Body and Bloud into which the breade and wine are so conuerted that the verey true and real bloude of Christe is receiued in the cuppe Oecumenius also saith Oecumenius in cap. 11. 1. Cor. Pro sanguine irrationalium Dominus proprium dat sanguinem et bene in poculo vt ostendat vetus testamentum ante à hoc delineasse Our Lord in stede of the bloud of vnreasonable beastes doth geue his owne bloude and it is wel that he geueth it in a cuppe to shew that the olde Testament did foreshadow this thing Euthymius agreeth with the same Fathers If then it be cleere by Christes owne wordes and by the interpretation of the Fahers that the same bloude which was shed for vs and which ranne out of Christes side was in the cuppe and that thence it is partaken seing that wine was not shed for our redemption it is cleere that after Consecration wine was not in Christes cuppe except as I said before we take wine by a metaphore as Christ is the vine and his bloud is the wine of that vine which Christ is Notwithstanding that I haue great aduantage in the rest of M. Iewels wordes yet seing this much doth suffice for the Catholike reader I wil not spende moe wordes therein but wil passe away to some other mater Concerning the adoration of the Sacrament Adoratiō there is much more said of it in myne owne and in other mennes bookes then as yet M. Iewel or al his fellowes haue answered And that thing wholy dependeth of the real presence Of applying the merites of Christes Death to others in the Masse The 9. Chapter Harding WEe neuer taught that by our Masses wee applied and distributed al the merites of Christes death to men how soeuer they were disposed Iewel Pag. 297. The most catholike pillers of your catholike Church as namely Caietanus haue said that faith is not necessarie for him that receiueth the Sacrament of thankesgeuing notvvithstanding he acknovvlegeth this vvas an errour Harding What vanitie is this to laie that to Cardinal Caietane which your selfe cōfesse he defendeth not but acknowlegeth to be an errour The wordes by you alleged out of a booke made by one Paralip Vrsper anno 1518. that was as false a brother as your selfe do meane no more but that a man may receiue Christes body albeit he haue no faith as Iudas did What is this to the purpose that we speake of Moreouer if Caietane once had thought which he neuer did that by the Masse we applie Christes merites to menne not wel disposed yet seing you say he tooke it for an errour afterward by this meane I might prooue that M. Iewel were a Papist bicause once he professed the beleefe of the Catholike Church when verely that Church was only meant by Godfathers Godmothers and the Ministers which had the Sacrifice of the Masse and praiers to the Saintes and Praiers for the Dead But you can not M. Iewel allege vs any one man that saith that by the Masse we applie the merites of Christ to menne howsoeuer they be disposed Neither doth Gabriel Biel nor Iacobus de Valentia De venerab Sacramento altaris c. 1. nor S. Thomas teache so whose wordes you corrupt with false translation englishing Pro quotidianis delictis for the debte of daily sinnes where debte is not in the Latine And in deede the debte of al sinnes as wel actual as original was taken awaie by the Sacrifice of the Crosse But we see euidently that the acte or actual doing of al sinnes was not then taken awaie For euen now faithful menne do sinne daily Therefore wee neede stil a dayly Sacrifice of none other substance then that of the Crosse was but euen of the very same substance which substance hath in it al his merite of the Crosse And thus we offer Christes body and bloude not now in truth by bloudshedding as once only vpon the Crosse it was offered but in mysterie by changing the breade and wine into his body and bloude We offer it thus I saie to applie vnto deuoute persons by faith and sacramentes the merite of the Crosse praying vnto God that the death of Christ which is euer auaileable in it selfe may through his bloude which we offer in the chalice and drincke with our mouth and partake in our soules by faith and charitie be made auaileabe vnto vs. Iewel Catharinus one of the VVorthies of your late chapter of Trident saith Deincruēto Sacrificio Apparet c. Harding Whatsoeuer he said he is none of our Worthies nor yet is he allowed of the Councel of Trente when soeuer in any matter of Doctrine he speaketh otherwise then that Councel doth I doubte much M. Iewel how in the iudgemēt of wisemen these boish flowtes become a man of your professiō in that so vainly you praise vnto vs now Peter Lombard now Gratian now the Gloser vpon him now Lorichius now Cusan now Catharinus now Caietane now Alphonsus now Pighius
now Bitontino and I can not tel how many moe As though we leaned to them more then to the Scriptures or to the ancient Fathers If you wil know what we beleue and wil not be deceiued therein reade the Councel of Trent the doctrine I meane of the Canons in the same decreed and so shal you not lose your labour We tel you though ye be not ignorant thereof that sundrie thinges haue ben said and written by Glosers which we defende not no more then you defende either al baudie Bales lyes al Luthers diuelish doctrines Beza in c. Luc. 22. or al Bezas filthy verses wicked writinges in defence of hainous actes and blasphemies against S. Lukes Gospel And yet Catharinus saith not that which you should proue when al is done He saith in dede fondly but he vttereth not that fondnesse which you lay to vs as his wordes and yours doo shew to him that listeth to reade bothe Iewel We receiue the merites of Christes death only by faith Harding That we receiue the merites of Christes death by faith The merites of Christes death be not recâ—iued by Faith only we graunt but that by only faith we receiue them it is a false doctrine and repugnant to many expresse sayinges of the holy Scriptures God according to his mercie hath saued vs saith S. Paule by the washing of the second birth and of the renuing of the holy Ghost Tit. 3. By receiuing saluation we receiue the merites of Christes death but we receiue saluation by Baptisme Ergo we receiue the merites of Christes death by Baptisme And sith that Baptisme is not faith but a different grace from faith verely we receiue not the merites of Christes death by faith onely Againe the merites of Christes death are receiued of him whose sinnes are forgeuen Christes Merites receiued by Loue or charitie Luc. 7. 1. Cor. 13. But Marie Maudelenes sinnes being many and great were yet forgeuen her bicause she loued much as Christ him selfe said and yet loue is not faith for S. Paule saith faith hope and charitie are three thinges Wherefore the merites of Christes death are not receiued of vs by faith only The like ArgumeÌ„tes might I make out of Gods word for the feare of God for hope and for many other vertues and specially for the grace of God Matth. 5. whereby wee suffer vniustly for righteousnes sake For as Christ specially was exalted according to his manhod in glorie for that in humilitie and meekenesse he suffered most vniustly Philipp 2. euen so he graunteth to them the greatest merites of his death who by his grace suffer together with him vniustly for the defence of his iustice as the holy Apostles and Martyrs haue donne That in Ioan. tractatu â—0 which M. Iewel here saith out of S. Augustine that the water of Baptisme worketh bicause it is beleued proueth Faith to be necâ—ssarie which thing we graunt but it proueth it not to be sufficient alone which was the point we spâ—ke of Iewel Pag. 29â— Hesychius saith the grace of Goâ— is receiued by onely faith in Leuit. lib. 4. ca. 14. Harding Lib. 4. cap. 14. You lâ—aue out halfe as your custome is For Hesychius saith The grace of God is receiued by faith alone non ex eperibus vt Paulus dicit not of workes as S. Paule saith Nam gratia iam non erit gratia For if the grace of God were deserued by workes now grace were not grace Thus Hesychius saith that Gods grace is receiued by faith alone onely to exclude their vaine opinion who thought workes which were without faith to deserue faith or iustice which is not so For we are iustified freely without workes that may deserue the grace that God geueth Yet it is not denied but that when faith is geuen vs then hope in God and the loue of him is also geuen vs. By which hope and loue spread in our hartes we receiue the merites of Christe and not by faith onely For Purgatorie matters wee referre you to M. Allens Booke and to that I said thereof in my Confutation whiche is more railed and scoffed at then answered Of the Intercession made to Saintes to praie for vs. The 10. Chapter Iewel Pag. 311. If Christ only be the mediatour of Saluation vvherefore do you thus cal vpon the blessed virgin Christes mother Salua omnes qui te glorificant Saue thou al them that glorifie thee Here ye intrude vpon Christes office Harding A Wrangler wil neuer lacke wordes Saue vs o blessed virgin in vvhat sense is iâ— taken Whereas you know by our doctrine and profession that we beleue not the blessed Virgin but only Christ to be our mediatour what fishe you for wordes to trappe vs in them When we saie to the Virgin saue vs we meane thus praye for vs to God that we may be faued And herein we speake as S. Paule did speake who saith to Timothee doing thus that is to saie preaching and geuing good example of life teipsum saluum facies 1. Tim. 4. eos qui te andiunt Thou shalt saue bothe thy selfe and those that heare thee What Doth S. Paule make Timothee a mediatour and Sauiour in these wordes They are thus wel meant Thou shalt be a meane to saue thy selfe and others that is to saie whereby the sooner saluation may freely for Christes sake be geuen of God to thee and to others Euen so saue vs virgin is to saie O virgin praie to God and to thy sonne Iesus that through his death saluation may be geuen vnto vs. I might bring many such speaches out of the holy Scriptures if I thought this might not suffice He is a contentious wrangler who knowing our meaning doth pike quarels of dissensioÌ„ vpon wordes only taken in euil sense the good sense dissembled Iewel Ibidem VVherefore saie yee thus of Thomas Becket O Christ make vs to ascende vnto heauen vvhither Thomas is ascended euen by the bloud of Thomas that he shead for thy sake Here you seeke saluation in the bloud of Thomas Harding This is an obiection for a Cobler as the other was and not for a Diuine Hovv it is lavvful to saie in praier super Thomae Sanguinem and the like Esai 37. whose duetie it were to depend of thinges and not of wordes Albeit you make it otherwise to your aduantage then the Latin wordes reporte yet thus we saie It is lawful to aske mercie of God onely for his owne sake it is lawful also at the time of asking mercie to present to him the remembrance of any gifte or grace of his God him selfe saith by his Prophete Isaias Protegem ciuitatem istam vt saluem eam propter me propter Dauid seruum meum I wil defende this citie to saue it for mine owne sake and for Dauides sake my seruant Now bicause we know it was a most gracious gifte of God that he gaue S. Thomas grace to dye for his honour
vertue Hieron Lib. 1. aduersus Pelagianos Double Perfectiō Againe in an other place Perspicuum est duas in scripturis sanctis esse perfectiones duasque iustitias duos timores Primam perfectiomem incomparabilem veritatem perfectamque iustitiam Dei virtutibus coaptandam Secundam autem quae competit nostrae fragilitati iuxtà illud quod in psalmis dicitur non iustificabitur in conspectu tuo omnis viuens ad eam iustitiam quae non comparatione sed Dei scientia dicitur esse perfecta It is manifest that in the holy Scriptures there are two perfectiōs and two righteousnesses and two feares And that there is a first perfection and an incomparable truthe and a perfite righteousnesse which is to be set with the vertues of God And that there is a second perfection whiche standeth with our frailtie A distinction vvherby al M. Ievvels obeictiōs maie sone be ansvvered touching this point The Pelagians heresie according to that whiche is said in the Psalmes Euerie one that liueth shal not be accompted righteous in thy sight asmuch to saie in comparison of that righteousnes which not in comparison but in the knowledge of God is said to be perfite By this double perfection al is answered what so euer M. Iewel bringeth against vs either out of the Scriptures or out of the Fathers It is possible to doo the law in this life after that perfection which belongeth to Pilgrimes but not after that which belongeth to Heauen But the Pelagians held that a man might if he would perfourme the perfection and that by the benefites of nature and by free wil without grace If a man consider the doctrine whiche we haue taught hitherto concerning Perfection it shal appeare that many thinges which M. Iewel hath alleged in the Defence are of vs confessed Whereof then riseth the difference verely of the wordes of the Apologie In the Apologie Defence pag. 315. which are these Wee are hable by no meanes to fulfil the lawe of God in this life This proposition M. Iewel I haue confuted This haue you taken in hande to defende But in al your Defence I finde nothing to that purpose I haue now shewed By vvhat meanes vve fulfil the lavv that by some meanes we may fulfil the lawe to wit by present faith and hope and by going daily forward in Charitie vntil we come to perfection in Heauen Furthermore we maie die also for Goddes sake The glad sufferāce of death for Christes sake is one meane to fulfil Godslaw Cap. 1. vlt. and for the defence of his truth This is one meane whereby the lawe is fulfilled Therefore your Proposition remaineth stil giltie of erroneus doctrine Besides this it is not impossible for a man actually to fulfil the lawe in this life bicause God may geue a man so muche grace as to doo it if it please him as S. Augustine hath declared twise in his booke De spiritu litera Therefore by some meanes we may be able to fulfil the lawe and that perfitely although I confesse we doo not fulfil it But remember you said not onely we do not fulfil the law but that wee are not hable to fulfil it by no meanes Whereby you abbridge the power of God For Gods singular grace is a meane to perfourme it S. Hierome also graunted to Pelagius possibilia mandata dedit Deus Ad Ctesiphont quis hoc negat The commaundementes whiche God gaue vs are possible to be don and who saith nay thereto Forsooth M Iewel in his Apologie Of Faith without Workes and of the Merite of good workes The 12. Chapter I Had said there is a true Faith whiche is not liuely but idle M. Iewel after his florish made at diuers Scholemen of whom I intende not muche to speake saith thus Iewel Pag. 320. 1. Tim. 5. Tit. 1. He that hath no regarde to his owne specially such as be of his howsehold hath denied the faith and is worse then an infidel And againe they saie they know God but by their workes they denie God Harding This is brought to proue that in euery great Sinne at the lest we lose our Faith Adde hereunto that whiche Martin Luther said In Artic. 35. Nemo est certus se non semper peccare mortaliter propter occultissimum superbiae vitium Noman is sure that he sinneth not alwayes mortally for the most priuie vice of pride If then at euery mortal sinne the faith be lost and noman be sure but that he is alwayes a mortal sinner doubtelesse no man is sure that he hath any Faith And so Only faith is brought to no faith at al. Onely Faith become no faith at al. 1. Tim. 5. Faith denied by euil vvorkes Tit. 1. Double knovveledge of God Of Vnderstāding and of vvil and obedience Naked Faith Faith clothed vvith Charitie So wel these men profit in their Doctrine But how saith S. Paule that he who hath not care of his houshold hath denied the faith Surely M. Iewel answereth him selfe out of S. Paule who saith They professe them selues to knowe God but by their deedes they denie him For so S. Chrisostome also doth expound the former of these places by the later So that there is a double knowledge one in the vnderstanding onely which those haue that beleeue in God and breake his commaundementes by killing or stealing or any other mortal sinne There is another knowing of God in wil and obedience of hart when a man preuented with grace is desirous to doo and kepe Gods commaundementes which are not heauy nor greuous to him that hath grace The first kinde of knowledge is bare and naked Faith The second is Faith furnished and clothed with Charitie This later Faith he hath denied who doth not take care of his howsehold and of them of his kinne c. But that notwithstanding the former Faith remaineth bicause he may yet beleeue al the Articles of the Faith which verely seing it is a grace of God and a great furtherance to euerlasting life and yet hath none other name at al euer inuented for it beside the name of Faith it must needes be a true Faith though it be not a profitable Faith as al Theeues and Periured persons are true men in nature though they be not honest menne in maners nor true menne of their deedes Al which wordes vttered in manner with the same order in my Confutation M. Iewel hath quite striken out of his booke of Defence bicause they opened the point of the controuersie There I said Faith Hoape and Charitie were three 1. Cor. 13. And that as there is a Faith working by Charitie of great profit so is there a Faith whiche may be without Charitie nothing worthe to euerlasting life Iewel Pag. 320. Iacob 2. S. Iames saith Faith without workes is dead but a dead faith is no more a true perfite faith then a dead man is a true perfite man Harding Did not you
knowe the answere M. Iewel Nothing is more common You belie the Scripture that is the answer to you And your forefathers euen vp to Luther haue alwaies belyed it and being told of it wil not yet amende no more then the Deuil whom they followe A thing may be dead in two sortes Idle faith i◠a faith either bicause it had life in it of his owne or els bicause it had it of another thing If a man be deade he is deade in respecte of the life which belonged to him selfe For a man doth consist of body and soule and not of the one alone So that when the soule is aparte from the body then is he no more a perfitte man during the time of that separation But the Body being one parte of a man hath life in it whiles the soule abideth in it But that life is not the Bodies owne but it is the life of the soule geuing mouing vnto the Body which life when it is taken away the Body remaineth stil a perfite Body in his owne nature although it be vnperfite in respect of the soule which did commende it and set it forth Now it is to be considered whether Faith haue life in it selfe and of his owne nature as a man hath for then a dead faith is no faith or els whether faith hath life of another thing to wit of Charitie and then a dead Faith is a true Faith in his owne nature albeit it be disgraced for lacke of the life which it was wont to haue through Charitie The very expresse worde of God hath ended this question For S. Iames geueth vs to vnderstand that Faith hath life of an other thing like as the body hath of the soule for he saith Sicut enim corpus sine spiritu mortuum est ita fides sine operibus mortua est Iacob 2. As the body without the sowle is dead so is faith dead without workes Not as the man is dead without the sowle but as the body is dead without the soule so is faith dead without workes But the body being without the sowle is stil a true natural body Therefore faith being without good workes is stil a true real faith But it is idle and no more profitable vntil good workes be againe graffed into it This mater is so plaine that the confirmation of witnesses is needelesse and so M. Iewel is tried a lier in that he said an idle faith is in dede no faith at al. Iewel Pag. 321. We graunt good vvorkes haue their revvard but the same revvards standeth in mercie and fauour and not in duetie Iob saith If a man wil dispute with God he is not able to ansvver him one for a thovvsand I vvas a fraid of al my vvorkes Although I vvere perfit yet my soule shal not knovv it c. Harding These witnesses do proue wel against your assurednes of saluation which you warrant to your selues But concerning our question it shal be good here to laye certaine truthes confessed of al sides that the doctrine may be the plainer First there is no merite of workes at al before faith or without faith August epist 52. Defence 321. For els grace were not grace and thereunto perteine S. Augustines wordes by you alleged to an other purpose After faith no particular man is able to warrant his owne workes to be meritorious And that is proued by al the testimonies of Scriptures and Fathers which you haue brought For euery man is vncertaine of his owne state Ecclesiastes 9. Our vvorkes considered in themselfe can not deserue life euerlasting as not knowing whether he be worthy of hatred or of fauour But when wee dispute generally whether those men who being in grace in dede are confessed to haue wrought wel do merite life euerlasting thereby or no that being our question thus I saie No workes of man were they neuer so good could of them selues without Gods ordinance haue merited heauen of God or haue made him debter of such a reward or wages dew to them For they are al done in time and can not deserue an infinite reward such as is rendred in heauen Rom. 8. For I iudge saith the Apostle that the afflictions of this time are not worthy of the glorie that shal be reueled in vs. In vvhat consideratiō are our good vvorkes meritorious of infinite revvarde But seing it hath pleased God not onely to geue vs abundance of grace whereby our workes may be acceptable to him but also to promise euerlasting life to the doers of them and to make him selfe a debter to vs of suche a rewarde this promise of God being put it were iniurious to God if nowe wee should not saie that our good workes deserued life euerlasting For seinge God geueth them freely to th ende we shoulde thereby deserue heauen who is so voide of reason as to denie that those workes deserue Glorie of whiche God hath said the dooer◠of them shal haue glorie rendred vnto them as their wages Matth. 5. Merces vestra saith he copiosa est in coelis your wages is plentiful in Heauen Vnusquisque propriam mercedem accipiet secundùm suum laborem 1. Cor. 3. Euery man shal receiue his proper wages according to his owne labour Psal 61. Thou shalt render to euery man saith the Prophete according to his workes If then no mannes workes in no sense deserue glorie it muste follow that God shal render glorie to no man and yet S. Paule sayth Rom. 2. that God wil render life euerlasting to them who seeke glorie and honour and incorruption according to the patience or continuance of working wel The same worde reddere Reddere to render or paye doth import a title and right that good workers haue to demaunde life euerlasting For as if I promise one ten pound to bring me a cuppe of fresh water although before I had promised that wages the water were not worth one halfpennie yet if once vpon my promise a man do bring me the water I am bound by my promise and couenant to paie him his wages Mat. 10. euen so God hath bounde him selfe to geue vs life euerlasting for our good workes saying Hoc fac viues doo this thing and thou shalt liue Againe he that continueth til the ende shal be saued And therefore now he that hath wrought wel euen til the ende may require God to keepe his promise who surely is faithful and wil not faile to kepe it And this thing is meant by the Parable of him that hiered men to labour in his wineyard that is in his Church couenāting with them for a pennie that is to saie Mat. 20. for life euerlasting To whom when he paied their wages he said Nónne ex denario conuenisti mecum Tolle quod tuum est Diddest thou not bargaine with me for a pennie Take that whiche is thine And S. Paule testifieth of him selfe 2. Tim. 4. I
haue fought a good fight I haue ended the rase I haue kepte the faith as for the reste the Crowne of righteousnesse is laid vp for me which our Lord the iust Iudge wil render to me in that daye And not only to me but also to them who loue his comming Here are first rehersed S. Paules workes to fight to ronne to kepe the faith Then is their reward rehersed which is a Crowne not onely of mercie but of iustice of righteousnes which God wil not only geue him but he wil render it to him and not onely to him but to al that follow his Faith Hope and Charitie And yet shal wee saye that God rewardeth not workes of such duetie as him selfe apointed That which God promiseth for working is due to him that hath wrought And this is the doctrine of S. Augustine and of al the other Fathers and Councels which might be at large brought forth but that the scriptures are therein so plaine that they onely suffice For he that beleueth not them wil hardly beleeue the Fathers or Councels In vvhat respecte is life euerlasting freely geuen and in vvhat respecte it is due for good vvorkes Rom. 6. Therefore to ende this question if wee looke to the cause of al our good workes seing it is not Nature which was corrupted but Grace which hath repaired Nature through Christe in that respecte life euerlasting is freely geuen and not deserued And so the Apostle saith Life euerlasting is the grace or free gifte of God But if wee speake of them who haue already grace by Gods gifte and doo now worke wel to them life euerlasting is by promise due for their good workes Hereof no man speaketh more circumspectly or profoundly then S. Augustine Augustin epist 105. VVhether vve haue merites who saith thus Quae merita iactaturus est liberatus cui si digna suis meritis redderentur non esset nisi damnatus Nulláne igitur sunt merita iustorum Sunt planè quia iusti sunt Sed vt iusti fierent merita non fuerunt What merites or desertes shal he that is deliuered boast of who if he were rewarded according to his deseruing could not be but damned Are there then no merites of the iust Yes verely there are bicause they are iust But they merited not to be made iust And againe Ibidem Quod est ergo meritum hominis ante gratiam cùm omne bonum meritum nostrum non in nobis faciat nisi gratia cùm Deus coronat merita nostra nihil aliud coronet quà m munera sua pòst Vnde ipsa vita aeterna quae vtique in fine sine fine habebitur ideo meritis praecedentibus redditur tamen quia eadem merita quibus redditur non à nobis parata sunt per nostram sufficientiam sed in nobis facta per gratiam etiam ipsa gratia nuncupatur non ob aliud nisi quia gratis datur Nec ideo quia meritis non datur sed quia data sunt ipsa merita quibus datur Et pòst Vnde etiam Merces appellatur plurimis scripturarum locis What then is the Merite of man before grace whereas nothing worketh our good merite in vs but grace and when God crowneth our Merites he crowneth nothing els but his owne giftes And afterward Whereupon life euerlasting it selfe which doubtlesse at the ende we shal haue without ende and therefore it is geuen to the Merites going before yet bicause those Merites vnto whiche it is geuen be not gotten of vs by our owne sufficiencie but are wrought in vs through Grace that Life also is called Grace for none other thing but for that it is geuen freely Nor therefore bicause it is not geuen to Merites but bicause the Merites them selues to whiche it is geuen are geuen And afterward It is called also in many places of the Scripture Wages Thus in effect then the Scriptures and after them S. Augustine and with him al Catholikes do say Life euerlasting is rendred or paid as wages or as a due rewarde to good workes But bicause the very same workes are not good but by Grace therefore the life euerlasting is also called Grace Both these partes we graunte the Heretikes denie the one to witte that good workes merite euerlasting life Of the Resurrection of the flesh attributed to the worthy receiuing of the blessed Sacrament The 13. Chapter I Said the Resurrection of the flesh is attributed in the Scriptures not only to the spirite of Christ that dwelleth in vs but also to the real eating of Christes fleshe in the Euchariste bicause in S. Iohn Christe saith Ioan. 6. he that eateth my flesh and drincketh my bloude hath life euerlasting and I wil raise him againe in the last daye Iewel Pag. 324. VVhere is your real and substantial eating Harding The eating of Christes supper was a real eating and thereto the wordes of S. Iohn doo apperteine as the very circumstance and also as al the olde Fathers declare namely S. Chrysostom and Cyrillus vpon that chapter Iewel Ibidem S. Augustine expounding the same vvordes saith beleue In Ioan. tract 25. and thou hast eaten Harding S. Augustine saith it though not vpon those wordes But he meant of the spiritual eating by Faith only You stil confounde eating by faith with eating really at the Sacrament Iewel Ibidem Nicolas Lyra Nicol. Lyra in Psal 111. one of your ovvne Doctours saith these vvordes of S. Iohn perteine nothing to the Sacrament Thus he saith Hoc verbum directè nihil pertinet ad Sacramentalem vel corporalem manducationem This saying of the sixth of Iohn perteineth nothing directly to the Sacramētal or corporal eating It vvas some ouersight of your parte M. Harding to seeke to proue the eating of the Sacramēt by those vvordes that by your ovvne doctors iudgemēt perteineth nothing to the Sacramēt Harding But it was a more ouersight of you M. Iewel to-blemish your credite by belying my doctor Lyra fovvly belied by M. Ievv if Lyra be my Doctor For Lyra neuer said the wordes that you allege Your cotation directeth the Reader to the Psalme 111. Read thexposition that Lyra maketh vpon that Psalme who liste he shal find him to saie no such thing In deede he expoundeth that Psalme of the Euchariste and saith quite cōtrarie to your doctrine Lyra in Psal 110. In praecedenti Psalmo actū est de Sacerdotio Christi eius sacrificio quod est Eucharistia in isto agitur de Eucharistiae efficacia In the former Psalme the Priesthod of Christ was treated of and his Sacrifice which is the Euchariste in this Psalme the efficacie of the Euchariste is treated of There ye haue a plaine testimonie bothe of Christes Priesthod and of his Sacrifice whiche he perfourmed otherwheres then vpon the Crosse which you denie For which cause specially I suppose ye cal him one of mine owne doctours In consideration whereof al the Doctours
of Christes flesh the onely meane of Resurrection to life And therefore your long talke is to no purpose which you vtter in this place They shal liue by the spirite of Christe who gaue them Faith and Charitie But doth not therefore S. Iohn speake also of real eating as though one effecte may not be wrought by diuers meanes concurring thereunto Ego saith Cyrillus id est Cyrill in Iohā li. 4. cap. 15. corpus meū quod comedetur resuscitabo eū I wil raise him that is to say my body which shal be eaten shal raise him Thus you see plainely that touching this point no lesse Clerke then Cyrillus teacheth the same that I said which you haue vniustly and rashly controlled as you haue done the reste of the Catholike Doctrine That matters of faithe and ecclesiastical causes are not to be iudged by the Ciuile Magistrate The. 14. Chapter Iewel Pag. 637. That a Prince or magistrate maie not lavvfully calae Prieste before him to his ovvne seate of Iudgement or that many Catholique and godly Princes haue not so done and done it lavvfully it is most vntrue Harding I haue tolde you M. Iewel Confut. Fol. 299. ae that the duetie of Ciuil Princes consisteth in Ciuil maters and euer said that Bishoppes ought to be obedient to Princes in suche cases whither so euer they cal them And if they make any temporal Decree the Bishoppe who hath temporal goodes vnder the Prince must obey without grudge Confut. Fol. 302. ae or gaine saying so farre as the Decree standeth with the honour of God But that in Ecclesiastical causes and maters of Faith mere temporal Princes haue any authoritie of them selues to cal Bishoppes and Priestes to their Seates of Iudgement or euer did it lawfully we vtterly denie Ambrosius lib. 5. Epist 32. Priestes only ought to be iudges ouer Priestes by Theosius S. Ambrose said to the Emperour Valentinian Nec quisquà m contumacem iudicare me debet quum hoc asseram quod augustae memoriae patertuus non solùm sermone respondit sed etiam legibus suis sanxit in causa fidei vel ecclesiastici alicuius ordinis eum iudicare debere qui nec munere impar sit nec iure dissimilis Haec enim verba Rescripti sunt Hoc est Sacerdotes de Sacerdotibus voluit iudicare Quinetiam si aliâs quoque arguerelar Episcopus morum esset examinanda causa etiam hanc voluit ad Episcopule iudicium pertinere Neither any man ought to iudge me as stubborne seing I affirme that whiche your father of most renoumed memorie not onely answered in worde but also established by his lawes that in a case of faith or any ecclesiastical order he ought to be iudge that is neither vnequal in office nor vnlike in right or authoritie For these are the wordes of the Rescripte That is he would Priestes to be iudges of Priestes And also if otherwise a Bishop were reproued and a cause concerning behauiour and manners were to be examined he would this cause of manners also to apperteine to the Bishoppes iudgement Vpon these wordes of Theodosius alleged and allowed by S. Ambrose An argument prouing that a Ciuile Magistrat maie not be iudge oner Priestes in causes ecclesiastical and matters of Faith thus I reason with you M. Iewel He can not be iudge of Bishoppes and Priestes nor cal them to his seate of Iudgement in Ecclesiastical causes and maters of Faithe that is vnequal in office or vnlike in right and authoritie But the Prince is vnequal to the Bishop in office and vnlike vnto him in right and authoritie For he hath no right nor authoritie to sacrifice to preache to binde to loose to excommunicate and minister Sacramentes Therefore the Prince can not be iudge of Bishoppes and Priestes nor cal them to his seate of Iudgement in any ecclesiastical cause or mater of Faith Againe no man hath authoritie ouer his superiour But the Bishop in maters of Faithe and Ecclesiastical causes is superiour to euery Prince Therefore in those causes the Prince hath no authoritie ouer the Bishop And if he haue no authoritie ouer him he can not cal him to his seate of iudgement Furthermore were it true that the Prince were equal with the Bishop in Ecclesiastical causes and matters of faith yet could he not cal him to his seate of iudgement ff ad S. Trebel L. ille § Tēpestiuum quia par in parem non habet potestatem bicause the equal hath no authoritie or power ouer his equal But to see M. Iewels arte in facing out this mater let vs consider the authorities that he bringeth to proue his purpose And bicause he blaseth this saying in the toppe of his margent with great letters VVhat it is to be conuēted before a Magistrate Spiegelius in verbo conuenire A Bishop conuented before the Magistrate let vs first define what it is to be conuented before a Magistrate The lawiers saie Conuenire est aliquem in ius vocare To conuent a man is to cal him into the lawe and so Conueniri coram magistratu est in ius vocari à magistratu to be conuented before a magistrate is to be called into the lawe by the magistrate To cal a man into the lawe is a iudicial acte proceding of superiour authoritie in him that is iudge both of the partie so called and also of the cause wherefore he is called As if the Maior of London would conuent any of the Citizens he must both haue iurisdiction ouer that Citizen and also authoritie to iudge in that cause for whiche the Citizen shal be conuented But no ciuil magistrate hath authoritie by vertue of his temporal office to be iudge our Bishoppes in ecclesiastical causes as it is before proued and shal hereafter appeare Therefore no temporal magistrate can conuent any Bishoppe or Priest before him in any Ecclesiastical cause But let vs heare M. Iewel Cod. de Episcopis et clericis L. Nullus Iewel Pag. 637. Iustinian the Emperour him selfe vvho of al others most enlarged the Churches priuileges saith thus Nullus Episcopus inuitus ad ciuilem vel militarem iudicem in qualibet causa producatum vel exhibeatur nisi princeps iubeat Let no Bishop be brought or presented against his vvil before the captaine or Ciuil Iudge vvhat so euer the cause be onlesse the Prince shal so commaunde it Harding Seing Iustinian as you saie of al others did most enlarge the Churches Priuileges is it likely that he would most of al others breake them And whereas he made a lawe Authent 83. Coll. 6. vt Clerici apud proprios Episcopos that Clerici apud proprios Episcopos conueniantur primùm Clerkes shoulde be conuented first before their owne Bishoppes in causa pecuniaria in a money mater and afterwarde before the Ciuil Magistrate if either for the nature of the cause or for some other difficultie the Bishop could not ende it yet he
errour whiche he helde as his priuate opinion was condemned at the sounde of trompettes in presence of that king as Gerson writeth but that was done before he was Pope Iewel 639. Your ovvne Glose saith Dist 63. In Synod in Glos Papa potest dare potestatem Imperatori vt deponat ipsum sese illi in omnibus subijcere The Pope maie geue the Emperour povver to depose him selfe and maie in al thinges submitte him selfe vnto him Harding Be it that our Glose saith so M. Iewel your Glose I might rather saie For the Gloser seemeth to be your chiefe Doctour There was neuer Diuine that serued him selfe with the stuffe of the Glose so muche as you doo What inferre you vpon it If you can like a good Logician frame this argument vppon that Glose The Pope maie geue the Emperour authoritie to depose him selfe Ergo the Pope maie be conuented before the Magistrate as one that through vertue of his temporal office is his superiour in Ecclesiastical causes let vs haue it in writing and we wil returne you the like with as good consequence and saie The Queene may geue anie of her Lordes and subiectes power to depose her from her roial estat and to transferre it to an other Ergo shee maie be conuented before that Lord and subiect of hers as one that hath authoritie to depose her of him selfe without commission and authoritie from her grace And if you finde fault with the sequele of this find fault with the sequele of you own For they are both like Dist 93. cap. vltim in Glossa The Law saith Ex alterius persona quis consequitur quod non habet ex sua A man getteth of an other-mannes person that which he hath not of his owne Wherefore the Emperour hauing authoritie of the Pope to depose him Extr. de off iudicis Deleg c. Sanè hath not that authoritie of him selfe or any his Imperial power but of the Pope And seing Iudex delegatus à Papa gerit vices Papae a Iudge delegated of the Pope occupieth the roome of the Pope the Emperour in this case shal not depose him as Emperour but as the Popes Vicegerent and Delegate Iewel Pag. 639. Franciscus Zarabella saith De schemate Concilio It is de Schismate pontificuÌ„ Papa accusari potest coram Imperatore de quolibâ—t crimine notorio Imperator requirere potest à Papa rationem fidei The Pope maie be accused before the Emperour of any notorious crime and the Emperour maie require the Pope to yelde an accompte of his faith Harding Neither Franciscus Zarabella nor Franciscus Zabarella for so is his true name saith as you reporte that Papa potest accusari coram Imperatore de quolibet crimine notorio M. Ievvel falsifieth his Doctor by addition of his ovvne to helpe his mater The Pope maie be accused before the Emperour of any notorious crime Those wordes coram Imperatore before the Emperour are of your owne interlacing and be not in the Authour You ought to be ashamed so fouly to corrupte your authours and deceiue the people Againe Zabarella sayth not Imperator requirere potest à Papa rationem fidei the Emperour may require the Pope to yeelde an accompte of his faieth They are your woordes Maister Iewel That whiche Zabarella saith is thus Zabarella made to saie What pleaseth M. Ievvel Si Papa est de haeresi suspectus potest Imperator ab eo exigere vt indiret quid sentiat de fide that is if the Pope be suspected of heresie the Emperour may require of him that he declare what he thinketh of the Faith Nowe sir to require a man to yeelde an accompte of his Faith and to require him to declare what he thinketh are twoo diuerse thinges For the one can not be donne but by Superiour authoritie the other by waie of friendship and common charitie But as for Superiour authoritie In vvhat case of necessitie the Emperour may entermedle vvith matters of Faith and religion after the minde of Zabarella Zabarella alloweth the Emperour none ouer the Pope nor graunteth that he maie intermedle in Ecclesiastical causes but in an extreme necessitie to witte if there were two Popes at one time as there were when he wrote this Treatie whence you fetche your falsified sentences and neither would yeelde vnto the other nor the Cardinalles take order for the quiet gouernemente of the Churche in procuring a General Councel and if he saw the Antipape to geue ouer his vsurped Authoritie then the Emperour whose duetie is to defende the Catholique Faithe maie intermedle in Ecclesiastical causes saith Zabarella His wordes are these Cùmergo deficit Papa vel Cardinales Francis Zabarella de Schismate pontificuÌ„ qui subrogantur Papae in Congregatione Concilij vt dictum est in praecedenti quaestione ad ipsum Imperatorem qui pars post praedictos est praecipua Concilij spectat Congregatio Nec quenquam moueat quòd Imperator est Laicus vt ex hoc putet esse inconueniens quòd se intromittat de clericis Non enim semper prohibetur iudicare de clericis sed tunc prohibetur quando non subest ratio specialis Nam propter specialem rationem permittitur vt ratione feudi Hoc autem casu subest ratio specialis imo specialissima ne fides Catholica ruat quod nimium periclitatur diu permittendo pluralitatem in summo Pontificatu In quo maximè est Imperatoris praecipuam habet potestatem Nam permittere plures in Papatu est offendere illum fidei articulum vnam sanctam Catholicam c. Therefore when the Pope faileth or the Cardinalles who are nexte in roome vnto the Pope substituted to the Pope in assembling of a CouÌ„cel as it was said in the nexte question before the assembling of a Councel apperteineth vnto the Emperour who after the Pope and the Cardinalles is the chiefe parte Neither it ought to moue any man to thinke it inconuenient that the Emperour in that he is a laie man should intermedle with maters belonging to clerkes For he is not alwaies inhibited to iudge of Clerkes But then he is forbidden when there is no special cause For it is permitted for some special reason as in consideration of fealtie And in this cause there is a special yea a most special reason that the Catholique Faith come not to ruine bicause it is in great danger by long suffering of pluralitie in the Popedome that is to say of moe Popes then one In which the Emperour is the chiefe doer and he hath the chief power For to permitte many Popes in the Popedome is to offende that article of the Faith I beleeue one holy Catholique and Apostolike Churche By this and the whole discourse that Zabarella your authour maketh there it appeareth M. Iewel that the Emperour hath not the authoritie you pretende but in that case of extreme necessitie And by your aduocate in the Lawe if he had not
But you misse M. Iewel What soeuer God commaundeth but for a time it is his worde And whatsoeuer his ministers do commaunde as profitable to the Church for the present tyme it is Gods word as him selfe said Luke 10. He that heareth you heareth me He that despiseth you despiseth me How be it S. Basil speaketh not altogether as you reporte He maketh not al Traditions equal with Gods worde simply and in al respectes he speaketh of three thinges of Doctrines written and doctrines vnwritte and of customes for which we haue no scripture Of the vnwritten doctrines it is that he speaketh not of customes that they haue equal force with the written doctrines ad pietatem to traine vs to godlinesse As touching vnwritten customes many thinke your example false For we were neuer forbidden to kneele at al vpon the Sonnedaie but at our Lordes prayer whiles it is said at Masse time as some interprete it At which time al the Popes Chappel to this daie vseth to stand vp and not to kneele Iewel Pag. 195. The reste of S. Basiles traditions stand in hallovving of vvater and blessing of oile c. Harding Those Traditions which belong to Sacramentes as that of the blessing of the oile doth maie neuer be changed Those that are mere ceremonial maie be abrogated by custom as the thrife dipping of the childe or of any other that is to be baptized and such others the like which neither S. Basile nor we euer made equal with Goddes expresse worde Iewel Pag. 196. S. Paule saying holde the Traditions which yee haue receiued 2. Thess 2. either by epistle or by worde calleth them traditions although thei vvere conteined in his epistles and deliuered to them by vvriting Harding And also though they were not deliuered by writing You leaue out halfe For he saith by writing or per sermonem that is to saie by speache The writing contemed wordes ergo the speache which differeth from writing were wordes without writing Iewel Pag. 196. VVhereas S. Paule vvil haue his ovvne thinges to be kepte Hieron in 2. Thes 2. he vvil haue no straunge thinges thereto to be added Harding We adde no strange thinges but beleeue that S. Paule preached and deliuered the Sacrifice of the Masse vnto the faithful people so plainly in practise and wordes that the writing was not hable to shew his minde so fully in that behalfe And by Tradition we haue as wel that which he taught by practise as that which he preached whether he wrote it or no. Iewel Pag. 197. S. Paule by the vvord Traditions meant not Ceremonies or certaine secrete vnknovven Verities â— Cor. 15. but the substance of the Gospel I haue deliuered vnto you that Christ died for our sinnes saieth he Harding M. Ievvels Secret vnknovven verities He meant not only Ceremonies I graunt And as for secrete vnknowen verities we haue no suche excepte you are so mad as to cal praying for the dead a secrete vnknowen veritie which hath euen benne knowen to al menne yea wemen and children in the Church of God And that custome of praying for the dead S. Paule did teach as wel as al other the Apostles as Tradition telleth vs Homil. 69. Ad populuÌ„ AntiocheÌ„ witnessed also by S. Chrysostom So that as the whole Gospel commeth vnto vs by Tradition so doth Masse Dirige Holy water Lenten fast and others Iewel Pag. 197. Epist â—6 S. Augustine findeth is not appointed by Christ or the Apostles vvhat daies vve ought to fast Harding Lenten fast is not founde in the Apostles vvritinges but in the Apostolike Traditions Aug. in epist 86. You kepe your kinde in alleging thinges out of their kinde S. Augustine there speaketh of that which is to be founde in the writinges of the Apostles For thus it went before In Apostolicis literis in the Apostolike writinges There he findeth not the Lenten fast But he findeth it in the Apostolike TraditioÌ„s saying in the very same epistle In his rebus de quibus nihil certâ— statuit scriptura diuina mos populi Dei vel instituta maioruÌ„ prolege â—edendasunt Looke in what thinges the holy Scripture hath determined nothing of certaintie the custome of the people of God oâ— the ordinauÌ„ces of the Forfathers Custom is a lavve are to be kept as a lawe Marke that the custom of Gods people must be â—olden for a law prolege for a law M. Iewel It is the epistle alleged by you that saith TraditioÌ„s and customes must be kept for a law And his owne wordes another where are Vt quadraginta illi dies ante Pascha obseruetur Augustin epist 118. Ecclesiae consuetudo roborauit That the fortie daies before Easter should be kepte the custome of the Church hath confirmed and strengthened it And generally he saith Quae non scripta sed tradita custodimus quae quidem toto terrarum orbe obseruantur dantur intelligi vel ab ipsis Apostolis vel plenarijs Concilijs commendata atque statuta retineri Looke what thinges we kepe not being written but deliuered by tradition which are obserued al the worlde ouer thereof intelligence is geuen vs that they be kepte in vre as thinges coÌ„mended vnto vs and ordeined either by the Apostles them selues or by the General Councelles Nowe seing the Faste of the fortie dayes was and is generally kepte in the Churche and yet not firste commaunded by any general Councel it remaineth according to S. Augustines rule that it was instituted of the Apostles And S. Hierome by name saith it came from the Apostles In fidei regula discrepamus We differ in the rule of faith from the Montanistes For they denie three persons confounding them into one They accompt the second Marriages as il as Aduoutrie and make three Lenten fastes Nos vnam Quadragesimam secundùm traditionem Apostolorum toto anno tempore nobis congruo ieiunamus We faste at a time conuenient one Lent in the whole yere according to the Traditions of the Apostles Iewel 199. M. Harding saith Persona Ingenitus Homousion are not founde in the scriptures but the sense and meaning is found there Harding So is the sense and meaning of Masse of transubstantiation and of praying to Saintes founde there Iewel Pag. 200. Gennadius saith the perpetual Virginitie of our Ladie is proued sufficiently by scriptures In catalogo Harding Gennadiin catal in Heluid This is a lowde lie Trie it out who wil Gennadius saith not so but only that S. Hieromes booke which he wrote against Heluidius affirming that our Ladie bare children after she had borne Christ was sufficiently fournished with * Documentes testimonies of the Scriptures For although it be not expressely written that she was a perpetual Virgin yet the faith thereof is most agreable to the Scriptures and most certaine in Tradition But were not the Tradition so strong the Scriptures certainely might be doubtful ynough in that behalfe Iewel Pag. 200. Of God and
his vvord they vvould euermore haue vs stand in doubt but of the Pope and his vvord they say in any vvise vve maie not doubt Harding Our doubte is not whether Gods word ought to be beleeued no man doubteth thereof But onely what is the meaning thereof And then besides to vnderstand it the better we ioine vniuersal tradition with it and in al further doubtes we say the Pope or the General Councel is the highest and laste iudge in earth to declare vnto vs the meaning of Gods worde Otherwise we should neuer haue an end of Controuersies as we see by experience betwen the Lutherans and Zuinglians Ievvel Pag. 200. 201. Hovv knovv you saith M. Harding that the scriptures be the scriptures c. The Church of God had the spirit of vvisedom vvhereby to discerne the true scriptures from the false So saith S. a In prooemi in Luc. Ambrose S. b cōt Fau lib. 22. Augustin and c 80. li. 6. ca. 2. Eusebius Yet vvil it not folovv that the Church is aboue the scriptures Harding If the Church of God haue the spirite of wisedome to discerne the true scriptures from the false shal it not also haue the same wisedom of God to expound the holy Scriptures and also to determine any question arising thereon Neither doo we say that the Church is aboue the Scriptures in authoritie but that it is to vs better knowen and as a more liuely so a more plaine teacher then the Scriptures be For if we aske the Scriptures any question Clemēs Alexand. li. strō 1 be it neuer so hard as Clemens Alexandrinus hath wel noted They wil answer vs no more then it is written But if any man aske the Church neuer so manie questions if the knowledge be behooful for mannes soule health it wil euer make him to eche question an answer and so wil dimisse him with a ful satisfaction touching al his doubtes 1. Tim. 3. For this cause the Church is called the piller of truth And as you confesse that the Church hath shewed vs which be the true Scriptures so must you likewise graunte that the Church hath the spirite of God to shew vs the truth in al behooful cases yea euen in those which be not expressely written For where is it written expressely that the church of God should haue the spirit of God for this ende to shew vs the true Scriptures to approue the true Scriptures and to condemne the false forgeries Luc. 10. Mat. 18. Christe said generally of al matters He that heareth you heareth me Item he that heareth not the Church let him be to thee as an Heathen and a Publican Of the Sacramentes of the Churche The thirde Chapter Iewel Defence Pag. 103. 104. M. Harding saith there be seuen Sacramentes vvhich as he saith do not only signifie a holy thing but also doo make holy those to vvhom they be adhibited But hovv can Matrimonie sanctifie a man and make him holy Or by vvhat institution of Christ conteineth it grace in it selfe and povver to sanctifie Harding Ephes 5. S. Paule answereth you thus Ye husbandes loue your wiues as Christ hath loued his Church And then he proueth the wife to be the flesh of the husband as also the Church is the body of Christe And so both waies the Prophecie of Adam is verefied Gen. 2. that two shal be in one flesh Sacramentum hoc magnum est in Christe Ecclesia Sacramēt Mysterie This is a great Sacrament or a great Misterie in Christe and the Churche For we stand not now vpon the worde but vpon the thing What is that great Mysterie First Matrimonie is alwaies a coniunction of two in one both by natural consent of myndes and also if it be consummate by corporal coniunction Now by Christes institution that coniunction is also made inseparable Matt. 19. when he said That which God hath ioined together let not man separate or put a sunder Nowe then this coniunction is made to be inseparable betwen faithful persons it is directed by Christ and instituted purposely to signifie his inseparable coniunction with the Church And whiles it is instituted of Christe to signifie that thing it is made a Sacrament or Mysterie whereunto Christe geueth grace and holinesse for that purpose For when any thing or action is appointed by Christ to signifie a holy thing in Religion that action is thereby made a Sacrament and doth sanctifie the worthy receiuers of it We see that Circumcision might be made and was vsed among some Infidels and to them it was no Sacrament Gen. 17. But when the faithful were commaunded to circumcide them selues to signifie the Circumcision of the harte which Christe should make in them that beleeued by his spirit and grace then Circumcision was made a Sacrament and did sanctifie the worthy receiuer Euen so it is in Matrimonie as S. Augustine saith August lib. 1. de Nupt. Concupis cap. 10. Ephes 5. Quoddam Sacramentum nuptiarum commendatur fidelibus coniugatis Vnde dicit Apostolus viri diligite vxores vestras sicut Christus dilexit Ecclesiam A certaine Sacrament of Marriage is commended vnto the faithful married personnes Whereupon the Apostle saith ye men loue your wiues euen as Christe loued his Churche Huius proculdubio Sacramenti res est vt mas foemina connubio copulati quà m diu viuunt inseparabiliter perseuerent Nec liceat excepta causa fornicationis à coniuge coniugem dirimi hoc enim custoditur in Christo Ecclesia vt viuens cum viuente in aeternum nullo diuortio separetur The thing doubtlesse of this Sacrament is The thing of the Sacrament of Matrimonie that the man and woman ioyned together in Marriage as long as they liue continew together vndisseuered and that it be not lauful for the one to be separated from the other but for fornication For this thing is kept in Christ and the Church that he lyuing with the liuing for euer by no diuorce be separated Here we learne not only that the name but also that the thing of a Sacrament is in the Marriage of Christians which thing doth sanctifie those persons that come worthily to Marriage For as Marriage was from the beginning ordeined to begete Children so by Christ it is ordeined to a higher signification verely not to be separated whiles the parties married together doo liue and thereby to signifie Christes inseparable vniō with his Church The chief signification of Matrimonie And as that vnion of Christ with vs is an inseparable sanctification to faithful men so is the signe thereof a special sanctification to them who married in our Lorde It is knowen that as S. Augustine assigneth there are tria bona matrimonij August li. de Nuptijs Concupisc fides proles Sacramentum Three good thinges are in Mariage the faith or fidelitie of wedlocke which the man and wife must kepe rendring duetie the