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word_n doctrine_n scripture_n tradition_n 6,474 5 9.3640 5 true
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ID Title Author Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication) STC Words Pages
A61550 The doctrine of the Trinity and transubstantiation compared as to Scripture, reason, and tradition. The first part in a new dialogue between a Protestant and a papist : wherein an answer is given to the late proofs of the antiquity of transubstantiation in the books called Consensus veterum and Nubes testium, &c. Stillingfleet, Edward, 1635-1699. 1688 (1688) Wing S5589; ESTC R14246 60,900 98

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1._o that_o they_o do_v attribute_v circumscription_n to_o christ_n body_n in_o heaven_n so_o as_o to_o exclude_v the_o possibility_n of_o its_o be_v upon_o earth_n 2._o that_o they_o deny_v any_o such_o thing_n as_o the_o supernatural_a existence_n of_o a_o body_n after_o the_o manner_n of_o a_o spirit_n p._n what_o do_v you_o mean_v i_o be_o quite_o tire_v already_o and_o now_o you_o be_v turn_v up_o the_o other_o glass_n pr._n since_o you_o will_v be_v dabble_v in_o these_o controversy_n you_o must_v not_o think_v to_o escape_v so_o easy_o i_o have_v be_v not_o a_o little_a offend_v at_o the_o insolence_n of_o some_o late_a pamphlet_n upon_o this_o argument_n and_o now_o i_o come_v to_o close_o reason_v you_o will_v fain_o be_v go_v p._n i_o be_o in_o a_o little_a haste_n at_o present_a i_o pray_v come_v quick_o to_o the_o point_n pr._n as_o soon_o as_o you_o please_v what_o think_v you_o if_o a_o man_n now_o shall_v bring_v a_o argument_n to_o prove_v a_o matter_n of_o faith_n from_o hence_o that_o christ_n body_n can_v not_o be_v in_o heaven_n and_o earth_n at_o once_o will_v this_o argument_n hold_v good_a yet_o thus_o vigilius_n tapsitanus_fw-la argue_v against_o those_o who_o deny_v two_o nature_n in_o christ_n for_o say_v he_o the_o body_n of_o christ_n when_o it_o be_v on_o earth_n be_v 14._o not_o in_o heaven_n and_o now_o it_o be_v in_o heaven_n it_o be_v not_o upon_o earth_n and_o it_o be_v so_o far_o from_o be_v so_o that_o we_o expect_v he_o to_o come_v from_o heaven_n in_o his_o flesh_n who_o we_o believe_v to_o be_v now_o present_a on_o earth_n by_o his_o divinity_n how_o can_v this_o hold_v if_o the_o body_n of_o christ_n can_v be_v in_o heaven_n and_o earth_n at_o the_o same_o time_n p._n he_o speak_v this_o of_o the_o natural_a presence_n of_o christ_n body_n and_o not_o of_o the_o sacramental_a pr._n the_o argument_n be_v not_o draw_v from_o the_o manner_n of_o the_o presence_n but_o from_o the_o nature_n of_o a_o body_n that_o it_o can_v not_o be_v in_o heaven_n and_o earth_n at_o the_o same_o time_n and_o so_o st._n augustin_n say_v that_o christ_n be_v every_o dardan_n where_o present_a as_o god_n but_o confine_v to_o a_o certain_a place_n in_o heaven_n according_a to_o the_o measure_n of_o his_o true_a body_n p._n this_o be_v only_o to_o disprove_v the_o ubiquity_n of_o christ_n body_n and_o not_o his_o be_v in_o several_a place_n at_o the_o same_o time_n pr._n then_o you_o yield_v it_o to_o be_v repugnant_a to_o the_o nature_n of_o a_o body_n to_o be_v every_o where_o present_a p._n yes_o pr._n but_o what_o if_o there_o be_v as_o great_a a_o repugnancy_n from_o st._n augustin_n argument_n for_o a_o body_n to_o be_v present_a in_o several_a place_n at_o once_o p._n i_o see_v no_o such_o thing_n pr._n no_o his_o argument_n be_v from_o the_o confinement_n of_o a_o true_a body_n to_o a_o certain_a place_n and_o if_o it_o be_v in_o many_o place_n at_o once_o it_o be_v as_o far_o from_o be_v confine_v as_o if_o it_o take_v up_o all_o place_n and_o there_o be_v some_o great_a difficulty_n as_o to_o a_o body_n be_v distant_a from_o itself_o than_o in_o assert_v its_o ubiquity_n p._n i_o perceive_v you_o be_v incline_v to_o be_v a_o lutheran_n pr._n no_o such_o matter_n for_o i_o think_v the_o essential_a property_n of_o a_o finite_a and_o infinite_a be_v be_v incommunicable_a to_o each_o other_o and_o i_o look_v on_o ubiquity_n as_o one_o of_o they_o p._n then_o the_o same_o argument_n will_v not_o hold_v as_o to_o presence_n in_o several_a place_n for_o this_o be_v no_o infinite_a perfection_n pr._n you_o run_v from_o one_o argument_n to_o another_o for_o these_o be_v two_o distinct_a way_n of_o argue_v and_o the_o argument_n from_o the_o repugnancy_n of_o it_o to_o the_o nature_n of_o a_o body_n do_v as_o well_o hold_v against_o ubiquity_n as_o that_o it_o be_v a_o divine_a perfection_n and_o st._n augustin_n in_o that_o excellent_a epistle_n do_v argue_v from_o the_o essential_a property_n and_o dimension_n of_o body_n and_o the_o difference_n of_o the_o presence_n of_o a_o spirit_n and_o a_o body_n i_o pray_v read_v and_o consider_v that_o epistle_n and_o you_o will_v think_v it_o impossible_a st._n augustin_n shall_v believe_v transubstantiation_n p._n st._n augustin_n be_v a_o great_a disputant_n and_o such_o be_v wont_a while_o they_o be_v eager_a upon_o one_o point_n to_o forget_v another_o but_o st._n augustin_n elsewhere_o do_v assert_v the_o presence_n of_o christ_n real_a body_n in_o the_o sacrament_n pr._n then_o the_o plain_a consequence_n be_v that_o he_o contradict_v himself_o p._n but_o he_o do_v not_o speak_v of_o a_o sacramental_a presence_n pr._n what_o again_o but_o st._n augustin_n make_v this_o a_o essential_a difference_n between_o a_o divine_a and_o corporal_a presence_n that_o the_o one_o do_v not_o dardan_n fill_v place_n by_o its_o dimension_n as_o the_o other_o do_v so_o that_o body_n can_v be_v in_o distant_a place_n at_o once_o what_o think_v you_o of_o this_o p._n i_o pray_v go_v on_o pr._n what_o think_v you_o of_o the_o manichee_n doctrine_n who_o hold_v that_o christ_n be_v in_o the_o sun_n and_o moon_n when_o he_o suffer_v on_o the_o cross_n be_v this_o possible_a or_o not_o p._n what_o will_v you_o draw_v from_o hence_o pr._n nothing_o more_o but_o that_o st._n augustin_n disprove_v it_o because_o his_o body_n can_v 11._o not_o be_v at_o the_o same_o time_n in_o the_o sun_n and_o moon_n and_o upon_o earth_n p._n as_o to_o the_o ordinary_a course_n of_o nature_n st._n augustin_n argument_n hold_v but_o not_o as_o to_o the_o miraculous_a power_n of_o god._n pr._n there_o be_v a_o difference_n between_o the_o ordinary_a course_n of_o nature_n and_o the_o unchangeable_a order_n of_o nature_n p._n let_v i_o hear_v this_o again_o for_o it_o be_v new_a doctrine_n to_o we_o pr._n that_o be_v strange_a those_o thing_n be_v by_o the_o ordinary_a course_n of_o nature_n which_o can_v be_v change_v but_o by_o divine_a power_n but_o imply_v no_o repugnancy_n for_o god_n to_o alter_v that_o course_n but_o those_o be_v by_o the_o unchangeable_a order_n of_o nature_n which_o can_v be_v do_v without_o overthrow_v the_o very_a nature_n of_o the_o thing_n and_o such_o thing_n be_v impossible_a in_o themselves_o and_o therefore_o god_n himself_o can_v do_v they_o p._n it_o seem_v than_o you_o set_v bound_n to_o god_n omnipotency_n pr._n do_v not_o the_o scripture_n say_v there_o be_v some_o thing_n impossible_a for_o god_n to_o do_v p._n yes_o such_o as_o be_v repugnant_a to_o his_o own_o perfection_n as_o it_o be_v impossible_a for_o god_n to_o lie_v pr._n but_o be_v there_o no_o other_o thing_n impossible_a to_o be_v do_v what_o think_v you_o of_o make_v the_o time_n pass_v not_o to_o be_v pass_v p._n that_o be_v impossible_a in_o itself_o pr._n but_o be_v it_o not_o impossible_a for_o the_o same_o body_n to_o be_v in_o two_o different_a time_n p._n yes_o pr._n why_o not_o then_o in_o two_o or_o more_o different_a place_n since_o a_o body_n be_v as_o certain_o confine_v as_o to_o place_n as_o it_o be_v to_o time_n p._n you_o be_v run_v now_o into_o the_o point_n of_o reason_n when_o we_o be_v upon_o st._n augustin_n testimony_n pr._n but_o i_o say_v st._n augustin_n go_v upon_o this_o ground_n that_o it_o be_v repugnant_a to_o the_o nature_n of_o a_o body_n to_o be_v in_o more_o place_n than_o one_o at_o the_o same_o time_n and_o so_o likewise_o cassian_n prove_v that_o when_o christ_n be_v upon_o earth_n he_o can_v not_o be_v in_o heaven_n but_o in_o 6._o regard_n of_o his_o divinity_n be_v there_o not_o the_o same_o repugnancy_n for_o a_o body_n in_o heaven_n to_o be_v upon_o earth_n as_o for_o a_o body_n upon_o earth_n to_o be_v in_o heaven_n p._n these_o be_v new_a question_n which_o i_o have_v not_o meet_v with_o in_o our_o writer_n and_o therefore_o i_o shall_v take_v time_n to_o answer_v they_o but_o all_o these_o testimony_n proceed_v upon_o a_o body_n consider_v under_o the_o nature_n of_o a_o body_n but_o in_o the_o sacrament_n we_o consider_v christ_n body_n as_o present_v after_o the_o manner_n of_o a_o spirit_n pr._n that_o be_v the_o next_o thing_n i_o promise_v to_o prove_v from_o the_o father_n that_o they_o know_v of_o no_o such_o thing_n and_o therefore_o can_v not_o believe_v your_o doctrine_n have_v you_o observe_v what_o the_o father_n say_v about_o the_o difference_n of_o body_n and_o spirit_n p._n not_o i_o but_o i_o have_v read_v our_o author_n who_o produce_v they_o for_o our_o doctrine_n pr._n that_o be_v the_o perpetual_a fault_n of_o your_o writer_n to_o attend_v more_o to_o the_o sound_n of_o their_o word_n than_o to_o the_o force_n of_o their_o
no_o creature_n can_v deserve_v divine_a worship_n and_o he_o deliver_v that_o as_o part_v of_o his_o own_o doctrine_n and_o therefore_o those_o word_n where_o he_o be_v say_v to_o make_v himself_o equal_a with_o god_n must_v be_v understand_v of_o nature_n and_o not_o of_o office._n p._n but_o st._n john_n 17._o 22._o say_v that_o christ_n pray_v to_o his_o father_n for_o his_o disciple_n that_o they_o may_v be_v one_o as_o we_o be_v one_o and_o that_o be_v not_o by_o unity_n of_o nature_n pr._n i_o grant_v it_o but_o our_o saviour_n there_o speak_v of_o a_o true_a but_o a_o low_a kind_n of_o unity_n or_o else_o the_o socinian_o must_v think_v every_o believer_n as_o capable_a of_o divine_a honour_n as_o christ_n himself_o if_o they_o take_v those_o word_n strict_o that_o they_o may_v be_v one_o as_o we_o be_v one_o p._n st._n paul_n say_v he_o that_o plant_v and_o he_o that_o water_v be_v one_o 1_o cor._n 3._o 8._o pr._n who_o doubt_v but_o there_o be_v other_o sort_n of_o unity_n beside_o that_o of_o nature_n but_o do_v this_o prove_v that_o there_o be_v no_o unity_n of_o nature_n between_o the_o father_n and_o the_o son_n if_o we_o have_v no_o better_a argument_n against_o transubstantiation_n we_o will_v give_v over_o dispute_v p._n i_o know_v you_o have_v other_o argument_n for_o the_o trinity_n but_o they_o prove_v as_o little_a without_o the_o authority_n of_o the_o church_n as_o from_o those_o place_n where_o christ_n be_v call_v god_n as_o joh._n 1._o 1_o 2._o rom._n 9_o 5_o etc._n etc._n pr._n and_o i_o think_v the_o argument_n from_o those_o place_n very_o good_a and_o strong_a especial_o from_o john_n 1._o 1_o 2_o 3._o and_o it_o seem_v direct_o contrary_a to_o the_o whole_a design_n of_o scripture_n to_o call_v any_o one_o god_n over_o all_o bless_v for_o evermore_o as_o christ_n be_v call_v rom._n 9_o 5._o but_o he_o that_o be_v god_n by_o natuce_n p._n how_o do_v you_o prove_v that_o john_n 1._o 1._o relate_v to_o any_o thing_n beyond_o the_o begin_n of_o the_o gospel_n and_o that_o christ_n the_o word_n be_v before_o john_n the_o baptist_n preach_v pr._n i_o desire_v any_o one_o to_o read_v the_o text_n impartial_o and_o he_o will_v find_v the_o socinian_n sense_n to_o be_v unnatural_a force_v obscure_a and_o jejune_n prove_v a_o thing_n of_o no_o moment_n at_o that_o time_n but_o the_o sense_n we_o give_v to_o be_v strong_a weighty_a consistent_a and_o of_o very_o great_a consequence_n at_o that_o time_n when_o the_o cerinthian_o deny_v the_o divinity_n of_o christ._n the_o sentence_n be_v short_a the_o word_n lofty_a and_o significant_a the_o manner_n of_o beginning_n unusual_a so_o that_o any_o one_o will_v expect_v some_o great_a and_o extraordinary_a matter_n to_o be_v say_v in_o these_o few_o verse_n but_o what_o a_o frustration_n be_v this_o if_o after_o all_o they_o intend_v no_o more_o than_o that_o although_o john_n baptist_n preach_v in_o public_a before_o christ_n yet_o that_o christ_n be_v in_o be_v before_o that_o which_o be_v a_o sense_n so_o mean_a so_o remote_a from_o the_o occasion_n of_o his_o write_n as_o it_o be_v deliver_v by_o the_o ancient_n that_o nothing_o but_o a_o miserable_a necessity_n can_v make_v man_n of_o wit_n and_o subtlety_n to_o put_v such_o a_o sense_n upon_o st._n john_n word_n p._n but_o they_o deny_v there_o be_v any_o such_o occasion_n of_o st._n john_n writing_n as_o the_o cerinthian_o heresy_n at_o that_o time_n pr._n i_o know_v socinus_n do_v so_o but_o he_o may_v as_o well_o have_v deny_v that_o there_o be_v any_o such_o person_n as_o cerinthus_n and_o i_o think_v the_o cerinthian_a heresy_n not_o only_o to_o have_v be_v the_o occasion_n of_o st._n john_n write_n but_o that_o the_o understanding_n of_o it_o give_v the_o great_a and_o true_a light_n to_o the_o word_n of_o the_o evangelist_n show_v the_o force_n and_o importance_n of_o they_o p._n wherein_o i_o pray_v do_v that_o heresy_n consist_v pr._n i_o shall_v not_o meddle_v with_o other_o part_n of_o it_o but_o only_o what_o relate_v to_o the_o present_a subject_n and_o that_o lay_v in_o these_o thing_n 1._o that_o there_o be_v a_o supreme_a and_o unknown_a father_n who_o be_v before_o the_o beginning_n and_o therefore_o they_o call_v he_o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d who_o be_v the_o fountain_n of_o all_o emanation_n iren._n l._n 1._o c._n 1._o 19_o 2._o that_o the_o world_n be_v not_o make_v by_o he_o but_o by_o a_o power_n at_o a_o distance_n from_o he_o call_v demiurgus_n iren._n l._n 1._o c._n 25._o and_o in_o the_o egyptian_a school_n where_o cerinthus_n be_v educate_v the_o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d word_n be_v one_o of_o the_o intermediate_v emanation_n between_o the_o father_n and_o the_o demiurgus_n iren._n l._n 1._o c._n 23._o 3._o that_o this_o world_n be_v in_o a_o state_n of_o darkness_n and_o confusion_n as_o to_o the_o supreme_a father_n of_o all_o only_o some_o few_o have_v some_o beam_n of_o light_n from_o he_o by_o which_o they_o know_v he_o 4._o that_o jesus_n be_v a_o mere_a man_n bear_v as_o other_o man_n be_v of_o joseph_n and_o mary_n but_o of_o extraordinary_a goodness_n wisdom_n and_o sanctity_n 5._o that_o the_o supreme_a father_n at_o his_o baptism_n do_v send_v down_o a_o divine_a power_n upon_o he_o in_o the_o shape_n of_o a_o dove_n which_o enable_v he_o to_o declare_v the_o unknown_a father_n and_o to_o work_v miracle_n which_o return_v to_o its_o own_o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d or_o fullness_n above_o when_o jesus_n suffer_v this_o be_v a_o short_a scheme_n of_o that_o heresy_n as_o deliver_v by_o the_o ancient_a father_n and_o now_o let_v any_o one_o compare_n st._n john_n word_n with_o it_o and_o he_o will_v find_v his_o design_n be_v to_o countermine_v this_o heresy_n by_o two_o thing_n 1._o that_o the_o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d word_n be_v eternal_a for_o the_o cerinthian_o say_v the_o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d be_v not_o in_o the_o beginning_n but_o make_v a_o great_a space_n of_o time_n between_o the_o eternal_a be_v of_o the_o father_n and_o the_o emanation_n of_o the_o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d wherein_o he_o be_v in_o perfect_a silence_n as_o irenoeus_n express_v it_o l._n 1._o c._n 1._o and_o so_o in_o the_o beginning_n do_v imply_v the_o eternity_n of_o the_o word_n but_o that_o be_v not_o all_o for_o he_o say_v it_o be_v with_o god_n and_o be_v god_n and_o be_v the_o demiurgus_n or_o the_o maker_n of_o the_o world_n and_o the_o revealer_n of_o god_n to_o mankind_n joh._n 1._o 1_o 2_o 3_o 4_o 5_o 9_o 10._o and_o so_o there_o be_v no_o place_n for_o those_o several_a emanation_n between_o god_n and_o the_o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d and_o demiurgus_n as_o the_o cerinthian_o say_v 2._o that_o the_o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d or_o word_n be_v incarnate_a which_o he_o affirm_v v_o 14._o and_o the_o word_n be_v make_v flesh_n and_o dwell_v among_o we_o etc._n etc._n and_o be_v the_o only_o beget_v son_n of_o the_o father_n and_o so_o he_o not_o only_o cut_v off_o the_o other_o emanation_n but_o declare_v that_o jesus_n be_v far_o from_o be_v a_o mere_a man._n and_o to_o this_o purpose_n he_o bring_v in_o the_o testimony_n of_o john_n baptist_n v_o 15._o and_o apply_v what_o he_o have_v say_v to_o the_o person_n of_o jesus_n christ_n v_o 17._o now_o this_o being_n st._n john_n design_n his_o word_n afford_v a_o demonstration_n to_o we_o of_o the_o union_n of_o the_o divine_a and_o human_a nature_n in_o christ_n when_o he_o say_v the_o word_n be_v make_v flesh._n p._n but_o do_v not_o the_o scripture_n in_o other_o place_n imply_v that_o there_o be_v a_o subordination_n in_o christ_n to_o his_o father_n which_o be_v not_o consistent_a with_o such_o a_o equality_n of_o nature_n see_v heb._n 1._o 8_o 9_o 1_o cor._n 8._o 4_o 5._o 15._o 27_o 28._o rev._n 3._o 12._o pr._n the_o first_o place_n be_v a_o proof_n for_o the_o divinity_n of_o christ_n for_o the_o word_n be_v but_o unto_o the_o son_n he_o say_v thy_o throne_n o_o god_n be_v for_o ever_o and_o ever_o etc._n etc._n it_o be_v true_a in_o the_o next_o verse_n it_o be_v say_v with_o respect_n to_o his_o office_n therefore_o god_n even_o thy_o god_n have_v anoint_v thou_o etc._n etc._n but_o we_o do_v not_o deny_v that_o christ_n be_v anoint_v as_o mediator_n and_o in_o that_o respect_n god_n be_v his_o god_n but_o do_v this_o prove_v that_o he_o that_o be_v mediator_n can_v have_v a_o divine_a nature_n in_o conjunction_n with_o the_o human_a the_o second_o place_n i_o suppose_v be_v mistake_v 1_o cor._n 8._o not_o 4._o and_o 5._o but_o 6_o verse_n but_o unto_o we_o there_o be_v but_o one_o god_n the_o father_n of_o who_o