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A65980 Antichrist's strongest hold overturned, or, The foundation of the religion of the people called Quakers bared and razed in a debate had with some of them in the castle at Lancaster and in an additional account of the light within ..., here also is shewed the occasion of their rise and growth, together with the right way of discovering their secret delusions ..., hereunto is annexed an appendix wherein their evil language is discovered ... / all which is published ... by J.W. Wigan, John. 1651 (1651) Wing W2096; ESTC R30213 71,934 77

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ready to make good when we had debated the other which we were agreed upon as appeared by their own paper With much ado he was perswaded and I proceeded to proof premising first that the question was not Whether there be some light in every man that comes into the world nor Whether Christ doth lighten true believers with a saving light forasmuch as I denied not but did affirm That there was some light in every man that comes into the World and that true believers are lighted with a saving light but that which I had undertaken to prove by the Scriptures was That Christ doth not lighten every man that comes into the world with a saving light My first argument was laid down thus Christ lightneth no man with a saving light but by his Spirit But Christ doth not give his Spirit to every man that comes into the world Therefore he doth not lighten every man that comes into the world with a saving light The first proposition is clear from the great promise of the New Covenant Isa 59. 21. As for me this is my Covenant with them saith the Lord my spirit that is upon thee and my words which I have put in thy mouth shall not depart out of thy mouth nor out of the mouth of thy Seed nor out of the mouth of thy Seeds seed saith the Lord from henceforth for ever And from the promise of Christ John 14. 16 17. And I will pray the Father he shall give you another Comforter that he may abide with you for ever even the Spirit of truth c. And from the end of his giving the Spirit namely to be a Spirit of Wisdom and Revelation unto them for the acknowledgement of Christ to enlighten the eyes of their understanding that they might know what is the hope of his calling and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the Saints Eph. 1. 17 18. and to lead them into all truth John 16. 18. Howbeit when the Spirit of truth is come he will guide you into all truth Neither is there any other way by which Christ doth infuse a saving Light into any man but by his Spirit 1 Cor. 2. 10 11 12. But God hath revealed them unto us by his spirit for his spirit searcheth all things yea the deep things of God even so the things of God knoweth no man but the spirit of God Now we have received not the spirit of the world but the spirit which is of God that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God It is onely by the unction of the Spirit received from Christ and no other way that men come to see and know these things 1 John 2. 20. But ye have an un●tion from the holy ●nd and ye know all things The assumption is proved from Jud. 19. Some are natural not having the spirit and from John 14. 17. Even the spirit of truth whom the world cannot receive because it seeth him not neither knoweth him but ye know him for he dwelleth with you and shall be in you And from Rom. 8. 9. But ye are not in the flesh but in the spirit if so be that the spirit of God dwell in you Now if any man have not the spirit of Christ he is none of his From all which Scriptures it is evident that some have not the Spirit of Christ Many other testimonies I had to produce for the further clearing of this proposition Viz. That Christ doth not give his Spirit to every man that comes into the world But here John Stubbs began to answer not denying either Proposition but as disliking the proof of the Assumption he spake to that Scripture Jude 19. and said Those that had not the Spirit were such as had gone in the way of Cain who had not obeyed but resisted the Spirit and so lost it Where by the way it may be observed That when a Scripture pincheth them they will not stick to give a meaning of it and such a one as may best suit their purpose But I replied That it could not be that those ever had the Spirit of Christ because they were 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 sensual or natural for the same word is so rendered 1 Cor. 2. 14. who never had the Spirit but are opposed to the spiritual or regenerate man ver 15. And therefore it is said The natural man receiveth not the things of the spirit of God for they are foolishness unto him neither can he know them because they are spiritually discerned but the spiritual man discerneth all things Now the reason why one discerneth and the other cannot is because one viz. the spiritual man hath received the spirit the other viz. the nat●ral man hath not the spirit as appears 1 Cor. 2. 10 11 12. To this purpose as far as I can remember was my Reply And now notwithstanding our agreement that the debate might be orderly and without confusion and my desire that but one might speak at once great disorder began for whereas I expected to have reasoned with one or at least but one at once divers took liberty to speak one after another and sometimes many at once running from the matter in hand to other points and many asking new questions that it was hard for me to get convenient time to speak Besides they were so obstreporous especially George Fox and Margret Fell as many can testifie that they seemed to some when not able to elude the plain Scriptures brought for the proof of the Assertion yet resolved to word it for victory George Fox coming in about the time I was replying to John Stubbs gets up to a seat with one foot and to the table with the other whereas I and others were standing on the ground about the Table he did not at all take off the strength of those Scriptures alledged by me but his endeavour was to prove That every man that comes into the world hath the Spirit of Christ in the management whereof he used many under valuing and taunting expressions towards me and several times went from the Table with these words The least or meanest Babe will answer thee as if the presence of their Leader or rather Misleader was not needful and which is yet worse he did miserably wrest and abuse several Scriptures which he would have forced to have spoken in his dialect calling upon the people for attention as if his work had been more to preach to them than to answer my Arguments as many of the Scritures made use of by him as I ca● recollect I shall give an account of as also of my answers That which he would have made out was that every man that comes into the world even wicked men have the spirit of Christ one Screpture alledged by him or some other was 1. Cor. 12. 7. The manifestation of the spirit is given to every man to profit withall My