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Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A41015	Roma ruens Romes ruine : being a svccinct answer to a popish challenge concerning the antiquity, unity, universality, succession, and perpetuall visibility of the true church even in the most obscure times, when it seemed to be totally eclipsed in the immediate ages before Luther / by Daniel Featley ...	Featley, Daniel, 1582-1645.	1644 (1644)	Wing F592; ESTC R4369	68,281	80

the continuance of our church for we have Gods promise in the old and Christs in the new that the church professing entirely that faith grounded on Gods word shall continue to the end And the redeemer shall come to Sion as for me this is my covenant with them saith the Lord my words which I have put in thy mouth shall not depart out of thy mouth nor out of the mouth of thy seed nor out of the mouth of thy seeds seed for ever And this is the word of faith which we preach And behold I am with you unto the end of the world Wherefore since all in the end must be brought to this issue whether our church or yours hath kept safe the most precious depositum of the apostolike faith we wish your learned to encounter us principally in this point not but that we will be ready to answer you in all other points whatsoever but because it is to small purpose to contend meerly about the out-works and leave the main forts and castle untouched As for your challenging words If c. I return them upon your self because you speak of all points I say if you can name any that professed the present Romish doctrin in all points within 1000. yeers after Christ let them do it then if we do not disprove them the day is theirs and for the most points of greatest moment shew me any for 600. yeers and let the day be yours Hic rodus hic saltus as for us we are in no danger of your if c. for we say it is needlesse to name any such who in all points taught our doctrin it is sufficient to produce some eminent persons in all ages who endeavoured to stop the inundation of your Romish errours and superstitions as it continually brake into the church especially if they held no substantiall doctrin of faith contrary to that which we now beleeve and teach besides these eminent persons and standard-bearers of the Gospel we doubt not but there were many thousands others both in your Romish church and else-where who never bowed the knee to B●●l nor received any ●●rk of the beast At this last answer of some of our men you ●ibble saying PAR. XVI Of making open profession of faith in time of persecution CHALLENGE Rediculous it is to answer hereunto as some do that there were true beleeving protestants when Luther began but durst not for fear of fire professe their faith this we say is to condemn them to have had no faith at all but to be a dissembling company of such as were neither hot nor cold Christ saying of such He that denyeth me before men I will deny him before my father in heaven Answer Bellarmin upon the by acknowledgeth that the Hussites and Waldenses continued till Luthers time who as appeareth by the rubricks of your own stories signed the faith we now professe not only with ink but with bloud which hath proved so fruitfull seed of the church that if the harvest of the next century be answerable to the last you will be constrained to blot catholike out of the title of your church and leave only Roman Besides many noble standard-bearers of the protestant religion who bad defiance to the whore of Babylon we say and disprove it if you can that there were many thousands who refused her cup of abhominations and in private detested her fornications howsoever they made no open profession of the faith neither will it hence follow that they were hypocrites this is too hard and uncharitable a censure Nicodemus was no hypocrite though he came to Jesus but by night and as it were by stealth Nor Ioseph of Arimathea though he made no open shew of his love to Christ till after his death much lesse were the Disciples hypocrites who according to Christs commandement fled from citie to citie and sought by all means to keep o●t of the eye and walk of their persecutors what publike or open profession of the christian faith made those saints S. Paul and S. Helary speak of who lived and dyed in deserts and hid themselvs in caves and dens of the earth It is the judgement of some of your divines that in the dreadfull and dismall persecution of antichrist the Pope himself shall professe his faith in secret If to make no open profession of faith is to be a luke-warm hypocrite what hypocrites shall the Romish priests be who shall not dare openly to celebrate masse in the great persecution of antichrist toward the end of the world as your Rhemists and Tapperus imply You your self and those of your religion especially priests and Jesuits make no open profession of your faith here in England yet you would not be thought to be hypocrites Be not too rash in your censures lest you slander your own mothers children Those God threatneth to spew out of his mouth who are neither hot nor cold that is those who have no zeal of Gods truth burning in their hearts those deny Christ before men who being called to make a goodprofession as Christ did before Pontius Pilate either directly or indirectly deny the faith as your Jesuited equivocators do renounce their priesthood calling such as deny Christ in this sort we deny them protesting against such protestants who are nothing lesse then what they are named PAR. XVII Of the first conversion of Britains and English to the faith CHALLENGE Or if your men fly this difficulty we will joyn issue with them in the maintenance of that faith and religion unto which we Englishmen were first converted by Austin a monk a man of God sent by Gregory the great bishop of Rome more than a 1000. yeers since Answer The Philosophers contend not more about the head and springs of Nilus than our English antiquaries about the source or rather the golden conduit which first conveyed the water of life into this Island some derive this {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} from Simon Zelotes some from S. Paul others from Ioseph of Arimathea and some few from King Lucius whōBeda calleth the founder of the faith among the Britains all fetch it from a higher more noble pipe then you You are the first whom ever I read to affirm that we Englishmen were first converted to the christian faith by monk Austin who when he came first into this Iland found among the Britains an arch-bishop and 7. bishops and 2000. monks in Bangor and what a world of christian people may we think besides Even in Kent it self where he first and most laboured in Gods vineyard he found a christian church bearing the name of S. Martin built to his hand and a way made for him even to the court by Lethardus chaplain to Queen Berta or Aldiberga Greg. himself Austins master doth us this right he acknowdlgeth it thirsted after the water of life before he thought of sending Austin and Melitus to quench this thirst whence was

jurisdiction over all bishops not excluding them from being bishops but making them subject and subordinate to their head or as it may import that this universall bishop should be the only bishop in the world ita ut caeteri non sint episcopi sed vicarii tantum illius that is so that all other who hold the name of bishops should indeed be no bishops but only his vicars This answer no way heals the wounds and gashes made by S. Gregories sharp stile in inveighing against the title of universall bishop for neither did Iohn of Constantinople at whom S. Gregory strikes in these epistles desire to be the only bishop of the world nor doth the word universall import any such thing Neither did Lucifer to whom this Gregory compares this Iohn of Ierusalem affect to be the only angel but as S. Gregory speaketh spretis in sociali gaudio angelorum legionibus ad culmen co●… est singularitatis erumpere Despising the rank of his fellow a●gells h● endeavoured to aspire to the top of singularity and this is that which S. Gregory chargeth this Iohn withall that he affected ●●ulli S●b●sse omnibus praeesse to be under none but above all That he went about cuncta Christi membra sibi universalis appellatione supp●●●re That is by the title of universall to bring all Christ● members in subjection unto him From which passages of S. Gregory I frame this argument he who usurps the title of universall bishop in such sort that he labours to be under none but above all is a sore-runrer of anti-christ an imitator of Lucifer in the singularity of his pride but the bishop of Rome affects to be under none but above all ergo by S. Gregories logick he is a fore-runner of anti-christ 2. For justification by inherent righteousnesse and the perfection thereof S. Gregory renounceth it as we do nay he goes farther then we in vilifying humane righteousnesse we say no more but that our best works are not free from some stain of sin he says in expresse terms that if they be examined according to the rigour of justice they are sins Upon the ninth of Iob thus he commenteth ut saepe diximus omnis humana justitia injustitia esse convincitur si districte judicetur that is all righteousnesse of man as we have often said is convinced to be unrighteousnesse if it be strictly judged as in the same book sanctus autē vir qui omne virtutis nostrae meritū esse vitium conspicit si ab interno arbitro districte judicetur recte subjungit si voluerit contendere cum eo non poterit ei respondere unum pro mille that is the holy man because he sees all the merit of our vertue to be vice if it be strictly scanned by the inward searcher of hearts and reins therefore he well adds ●f he will contend with him he cannot answer one for a thousand And the 18 chap. Si enim remota piet at● discutimur opus nostrū poena dignum est quod remunerari praemiis praestolamur If we are examined without mercy our work for which we look for a reward will prove to be worthy of punishment and chap. 19. sed tamen sciendum est quia mundos nos ad perfectum reddere vel vita vel lachrymae non valent quousque nos mortalitas nostrae corruptionis tenet that is we must know that neither our life nor our tears can make us perfectly clean as long as we continue in this frailty of corruption With what face can you affirm that the church of Rome holdeth still the tenets which it did in S. Gregories time Your tenet now is that you c●… fulfill the law of God in this life that by good works you can merit heaven and more that you may trust to your inherent righteousnesse and that you are justified by it which if you can reconcile with S. Gregories assertions above related I doubt not but you may in good time reconcile all christendom 3. For perseverance of saints in grace S. Gregory is as firm as any of the reformed protestant writers in his 34 book upon Iob he propounds a kind of objection how it should come to passe that Leviathan hath such power to trample gold that is saith he men shining with the brightnesse of sanctifie 〈◊〉 if it were dirt by defiling them with vice sed citius respondemus quia ●urum quod pravis diab●li persua f●on●bus sterni sicut lutum potuerit aurum ●…te oculos Dei ●unquam fuit qui seduci quandoque non reversuri possunt quasi habitum sanctitatis ante oculos hominum vide●●tur amittere sed eam ante oculos Dei nunquam habuerunt that is but we speedily ans●er that that gold which by the wicked perswasion of the devill may be cast down as dirt was never gold in Gods eye c. 4. For private ma●●es without communicants wherein the priest rehearseth the words of Christ take eat and drink yee all of this yet eateth and drinketh all himself and celebrateth a strange kind of supper without any guest at all I say in S. Gregories time this corruption had not crept into the church as appeareth by those words cum que in eadem ecclesia missarum solennia celebrarentur atque ex more diacon●s clamaret si quis non communicat de● locum and when in the same church the solemnity of the masses were celebrated and the deacon cryed out after the custom 〈◊〉 if any man communicate not let him depart or give place If you here snatch at the word masses I answer that the masses S. Gregory and the fathers before him spake of were nothing but our communion and the service thereunto belonging so called either a ●…ttendis muneribus for the offerings that were then made or a di●●ttendis catech●…enis sending away such as were not thought fit to be admitted to the holy sacrament of which we shall have further occasion to speak in answer to your promised reply 5. For the princes authority over ecclesiasticall persons S. Gregory acknowledgeth not only ordinary priests and bishops but even the bish of Rome also himself to be subject to the emperor sacerdotes meos tuae ma●●● comisi I have committed my priests into thy hands And afterwards in his own person ego indignus famulus vester I your unworthy servant Ego quidem in●imus subjectus eandem legem per diversas terrarum partes transmitti seci quia lex ipsa omnipotenti Deo minime concorder ecce per suggestionis me● pag●●am ferenissimo Dommino ●unciavi utrobique ergo quae debut exolvi qui et imperatori obedientiam praebui pro Deo quod sensi m●n●●e ●●●ui that is I your lowest subject have published your command And here you tray see in what terms the empire and papacy stood when the Pope held it his duty to publish a decree of