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A34032 A modest and true account of the chief points in controversie between the Roman Catholics and the Protestants together with some considerations upon the sermons of a divine of the Church of England / by N.C. Nary, Cornelius, 1660-1738.; Colson, Nicholas. 1696 (1696) Wing C5422; ESTC R35598 162,211 316

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nothing so frequent in the Fathers and Ecclesiastical Writers as the Recommendation of it In a Word there is not one Doctrine or Practice of the Catholic Religion deliver'd with so full and unquestionable a Tradition no not the Mystery of the Trinity no nor the Incarnation nor the Necessity of Baptism nor even the Truth of the Scriptures So that a Man may lib. de Cor. Militis lib. de Monog de vita Const lib. 4. c. 71. In Enchir cap. 110. lib. 9. Confes cap. 13. as well make an Apology for being a Christian as for this Tertulian tells us that in his Days they made yearly Oblations for the Dead and pray'd for their Souls Eusebius that all the Congregation pray'd for the Soul of the Emperor Constantin the Great St. Austin that it is not to be denied that the Souls of the Dead are eas'd by the Pitty of their living Friends when the Sacrifice of the Mediator is offer'd for them That his Mother Monica her last Injunctions to him was to remember her at the Altar That the Tradition of the Fathers is observ'd by the whole Church Serm. 32. de Verb. Apost viz. That they shou'd pray for those who dy'd in the Communion of the Body and Blood of Christ in that place of the Sacrifice where the Dead are recommended In short I shou'd never end shou'd I relate all the Sayings of Fath rs and Councils and Eccl siastical Writ●rs upon this Subject so that I may confidently affirm there is not one Point in the Christian Religion more unanimously believ'd or more religiously practic'd over all the Catholic Church in all Ages than this of praying for the Dead and offering the S●crifice of the Mass for their Souls And this is so well known that ●o Sober and Learned Protestant ever yet denied the immemorial Antiquity of it at least that ever I met with But being sensible how necessarily and inevitably the Belief of Purgatory or a Third Place where Souls are detain'd for a Time is consequent upon this Practice they have recourse to certain su●terfuges and Evasions They tell us that Prayers were made from the second Age for the Apostles and Martyrs and Confessors Exposit of the Doctrine of the Church of England pag. 31. and even for the Blessed Virgin Mary all which they thought in Happiness and never touch'd at Purgatory that therefore it does not follow there is a Purgatory because they prayed for the Dead To which I answer that these Gentlemen wou'd very much oblige us if they wou'd be so good as to instance in some of those Prayers which they say were put up for the Apostles and Martyrs and the Virgin Mary which I never yet met with in any of their Writings And this very thing gives me a shrewd Suspicion that they are not able to produce any Examples of that kind at least to the purpose considering how liberal and even prodigal they are of Quotations of Fathers and Ecclesiastical Writers when they seem to make for them This I am certain of that the primitive Church did only believe their Prayers available for those whom they thought not to have so well lived as that they shou'd not need their Charitable Assistance 'T is what St. Austin says De Civit. Dei lib. 21. cap. 24. Pro defunctis quibusdam Ecclesiae exanditur oratio quorum in Christo regeneratorum nec usque adeo vita in corpore malè gesta est ut tali Misericordia judicentur digni non esse nec usque adeo berè ut talem Misericordiam reperiantur necessariam non habere The Prayers of the Church are heard for such as are regenerated in Christ whose Lives have not been altogether so bad as not to be thought worthy of such a Mercy nor altogether so good as not to need such a Mercy And the same Father tells us that it were to injure the Martyrs to pray for them to whose Prayers we ought rather to have our selves commended But do not the Ancient Liturgies make mention of Prayers and Thanksgivings put up to God for or in Honor of the Apostles and Martyrs and the Virgin Mary And does not the Roman Missal we now use do the same Yes most certainly for we pray to God and thank Him for and in Honour of the Apostles and Martyrs and the Virgin Mary and so did all Antiquity But then these Prayers are not intended for the Delivery of their Souls from any Pains but to thank Almighty God for crowning the Martyrs and Saints and to praise his Holy Name for bringing them to that happy State they how are in as the Prayers and Oblations of the Pr●●ative Church and those we new make for the Souls of such as die in the Communion of the Church of whose perfect Innocence and Holiness we are not assur'd are intended to beg of God that he wou'd be merciful to them and forgive them those sins for which they did not fully satisfie in this Life And this St. Austin tells us was the Design and End of all the Prayers put up for the Dead whether Apostles or Martyrs or other Christian Souls These are his Words The Oblations and Alms usually offer'd in the Church for all the Dead De Enchiridio ad Lau. cap. 100. who receiv'd Baptism were Thanksgivings for such as were very Good Propitiations for such as were not very Bad but for such as were very wicked tho' they gave no Relief to the Dead yet were they some Consolation to the Living And is not this the very Doctrine we hold this Day Do not we offer the Sacrifice of Christ's Body as this Father calls it on the Feasts of the Apostles and Martyrs c. in Thanksgiving to God for the blessed Estate of the Saints in Heaven And do not we pray and give Alms and offer the same Sacrifice for the Propitiation of those whom we charitably believe to have died in the Peace and Communion of the Church Does our praying to God for the Apostles and Martyrs and the Virgin Mary as aforesaid hinder us to believe that there is a Place wherein other Souls are detain'd till they have satisfied the Divine Justice No sure And why must the like Prayers hinder the Primitive Church to believe the same Nay rather does it not necessarily follow that the Primitive Church as well as We did believe there was such a place because they put up Prayers to God for Pardon and Forgiveness of Sins for such as they reasonably believ'd to have died in the Communion of the Body of Christ as the Fathers speak but not so perfect as that they shou'd not need their Prayers since it were both vain and superfluous to have pray'd for them upon this Score had they believ'd they were immediately receiv'd into Heaven or thrust into Hell This I am confident no Man of Sense can reasonably deny So that it is a most shameful Evasion to conclude that the Primitive Church did not believe
Compass of Civility and Respect and wou'd have given no Man cause to complain if his Conduct had not as I conceive extorted some hard Words from me 'T is true no manner of Dispute or Controversie can Justifie a Man's being Rude or Vncivil yet I believe every one will allow that it is not possible to manage a Controversie of this Nature and at the same Time to shew the Respect that might be expected upon other Occasions without betraying the Cause I have indeed on purpose forborn to give him any other Title than that of Doctor because my Dispute with him is not as he was an Arch-Bishop but as a Dr. of Divinity and because I conceiv'd I might with less Disrespect use the necessary freedom of speech under that Notion However if any of my Readers will please to do me the favour to let me know wherein I have unnecessarily exceeded the Limits of due Moderation I shall take it very kindly and endeavour to make amends for my Fault To the Second That I never intended to provoke or exasperate any Man much less wou'd I provoke any of the worthy Members of the Church of England whom I am in Duty bound to Honor and Respect And if I wrote any thing that looks that way 't was the necessity of the Subject not my Inclination that forc'd me upon it My Design was only to lay before those of my own Perswasion the Truth of that Doctrine which they and their Ancestors have believ'd since Christianity was planted among Them and which I see now they have many Temptations to quit And in this I think I do but follow the Example of the Apostles and Primitive Fathers who in the greatest Heat of Persecutions and Fiery Tryals as the Scripture phrases it took more care than ever to inculcate to the Christians the Truth of their Religion and to Arm them with the Hopes of a future Life that they might the better be able to bear up against the Temptations and Rage of the World and suffer with Joy as St. Paul saith the Pillage and Plunder of their Goods Rapinam bonorum vestrorum cum gaudio suscepistis However if I have sin'd on that hand I have that confidence in the Equity and Goodness of the Church of England that my Fault which is peculiar to my self will not be requir'd at the hands of Those of my Perswasion whose Consent or Approbation I never desir'd I am not ignorant That our Lives and Fortunes are at the Mercy of the Law and may be depriv'd of Both when it shall please our Magistrates to put them in Execution But such is their Lenity and Goodness that they overlook us and suffer us to live which we accept always and in all places and with all Thankfulness and earnestly beseech Almighty God to bless and prosper them for it The Better Sort which blessed be God are also the Greater are sensible that our only Crime is our Conscience which we cannot help and which I trust in God we shall ever prefer to all that is most dear to us in this World They desire our Conversion because they think us in an Error and we likewise desire and earnestly pray for their's because we are perswaded they are in the wrong They know we have made no Innovations in Religion nor broach'd any New Doctrines but only stick to and to use St. Paul's Words hold fast the Profession of that Faith which we received from our and their Ancestors A Plea which secur'd the very Pagans in the Possession of their Lives and Fortunes when the Christians got the better of them and which I trust in God and in the Goodness of our Governours will ever secure us We are not therefore insensible of the Clemency and Good Nature of the Worthy Men of the Church of England nor are we so dull as not to take notice of the Connivance and Liberty they are pleas'd to allow us but we think we cannot make them a more suitable Return a more charitable I am sure we cannot than to lay before them the Dangerous Consequences of their Errors and the desperate State of their Souls We see the horrid Sacrileges committed by their Ancestors and the Schism and Heresie into which they fell and we conceive it our Duty to them who tho' they shou'd use us never so ill are still our Brethren to mind them of the great Danger and Hazard they run in following the Steps of their Fore-Fathers and in persisting in those Things which we conceive are very great Impieties And if in handling these Matters we are forc'd to use such Expressions as may seem to give Offence 't is the Necessity of the Subject not our Inclination that extorts them from us Bad Things must have bad Names and Words must bear some Proportion with the Things they are put to signifie else they wou'd not give us a just Idea of them And therefore in speaking to things that are confessedly Bad namely Heresie and Schism if any Expressions in this Treatise may seem to shock or give Offence I hope they will be look'd upon as necessary and unavoidable and consider d as Vinegar intended only to Cleanse the Wound but not to Vex the Patient tho' it shou'd prove Vneasie to him which I call the Great GOD of Heaven to Witness was the Author's Design ERRATA PAge 2. Line 3. read Ingenious p 6 l 12. r seemingly p 7. l 19. r Patrlarchs p 1● l 33. r demonstration p 17. l 30. r according p 25. l. 1. r ●●●ebians p 39. l ult r Homin●m p 52. l 1● r Catera● p 55. l 17. r as p 8. l 28 r pray'd p 106. l 2. add it p 119. 16. r this is ibid. l 13. r be p 129. l 34. r re●●●'d p 131. l. 24. r Scurrilous p 157 l. 29. r too p 158. l 10. r Incredulous ibid. l 15. r Divest p 174. l 24. r added p 175. l 33 r tell p 183. l 26. r was p 184. l 28. r practice ibid. l 30. r given p. 100. l 1. r Question p 193. l 2. r left p 200. l 21. dele must p. 204. l 27. r Calvinists p 207. l 33. r Captivity p 208. l 14. r Eastern ibid. l 18. r Common p 215. l 14. r hundred p 216. l 24. r probi●y p 220. l 18. add it is 222. l 24. r Test p 225. l 32 r appear p 228. l 20. r Solem● p 251. l 3. 〈◊〉 p 261. l 18. r proportion p 262. l 15. r gra●eful p 297. l 32. for these r the. A Modest and True ACCOUNT OF THE Chief Points in Controversie c. The Introduction IT is commonly said and our own Experience teacheth it us that good Language goes far in gaining Credit to whatever is said and that a smooth polish'd Discourse when Gravely delivered seems to carry the Face of Truth though it should happen to be otherwise Words when handsomely laid together have I know not what of Charming in them and do
the Angel declar'd it grant us thy humble Petitioners who believe Her to be truly the Mother of God that by Her intercession we may with Thee be assisted thro' the same our Lord Jesus Christ c. Amen A Collect on the Feast of St. Peter and St. Paul O God who hast consecrated this Day by the Martyrdom of Peter and Paul grant to thy Church to follow their Example in all things by whom the Religion began thro' our Lord Jesus c. Amen A Collect on the Nativity of St. John Baptist O God who hast Honor'd this Day with the Nativity of St. John give to thy People the Grace of Spiritual Joy and guide the Minds of all the Faithful in the way of eternal Salvation thro' Jesus Christ our Lord. Amen Here you see all these Prayers are address'd to God alone And thus indeed are all the Collects in the Mass-Book and Breviary which I willingly submit to any Man's Tryal ad Paenam libri As to the Office and Litanies of the B. V. Mary which are found in Manuals and read by some R. Catholics there is no Reason to charge them upon the Public Office and Service of the Church since they are not us'd by the Church nor publish'd by public Authority The Church does indeed allow such Prayers to be said as far as they hold within the Compass of meer Intercession because they are founded in the Practice of the Primitive Church and all succeeding Ages But if any of them contain any Terms or Expressions bordering upon the Prerogative of the Mediatorship of Jesus Christ she does as heartily and as earnestly desire they shou'd be abolish'd as any Protestant whatsoever Touching the Rosary or Beads in which the Dr. reproaches us for saying ten Ave Marias for one Pater Noster I believe every one knows the Church obliges no body to say it I am sure there are Millions of R. Catholics who never do Besides there is nothing in the Ave Maria but the very Words of Scripture except these last pray for us now and in the Hour of our Death and if it be a good thing to desire the Mother of God to pray for us sure the oftner we desire it the better it is As to the Disproportion between the Pater Nosters and the Ave Marias I must confess it were something if those who use the Rosary made all their Devotion to consist in it But it is well known that such as say it do to their Power discharge all other Christian Duties at least do pretend to no Exemption upon the Score of their Beads or Rosary from Praying to Almighty God from Adoring and Worshiping Him and giving Him their Humble and Hearty Thanks for his Benefits and Blessings from commemorating the Death and Passion of our Lord Jesus Christ and having recourse to the Merits thereof for Mercy and Pardon of their Sins And now when they have endeavour'd to discharge all these Essential Duties where lies the harm if they spend some part of their spare Hours in saying over and above so many Ave Marias especially since they are founded in the Merits of the Death and Passion of our Lord and Saviour in Virtue whereof all Catholics do hope and trust that the Virgin Mary and all the Saints will pray for them Or how can it be counted a Fault to desire the Virgin Mary to do that for us which even the Dr. himself and all the Learned Protestants in the world do acknowledge She and all the Saints in Heaven constantly do tho' we shou'd not ask it of them Now this is plainly the Case All R. Catholics are taught and exhorted by the Church to discharge first their Duty to God to worship and adore him to put up their Prayers to Him to thank him for His Benefits to be sorry for their sins to beg Mercy and Forgiveness thro' the Merits of the Passion of our Lord Jesus Christ and when this is done if they will take the Lady's Office or the Litanies of the Saints or the V. Mary or their Beads and beg those great Friends and Favourits of Jesus Christ who shed their Blood and lay down their Lives for the Truth of His Gospel to recommend them to Him and his Heavenly Father is it not better since the mind of Man must always be in Action than spend the Time in Idleness or perhaps in Evil Conversation In a Word these are Devotions which certain Fraternities and Regular Societies have taken upon them to discharge over and above the necessary and Essential Duties of Christianity and which other Catholics to be Partakers of the Prayers of the said Fraternities and Societies do also perform But in saying their Beads they do not always as the Dr. wou'd suggest say ten Ave Maria's for one Pater Noster For several Fraternities and Catholics say all Pater Nosters without ever an Ave Maria. But of this enough I proceed to shew 3. From the very Words of the Holy Fathers that this Practice of praying to Saints was us'd in the primitive Church St. Ambrose delivers his Thoughts in these Words We ought to pray to the Angels in our own Behalf who are given as a Guard to Vs We ought to pray to the Martyrs whose Bodies remaining with Vs seem to be as it were a Pledge of their Protection Lib de Viduis prope Fin. Gregory Nissen speaks thus to the Martyr St. Theodorus Intercede and Pray for your Country with our Common Lord and King Orat. in St. Theodor. St. Austin We do not Commemorate the Martyrs at the Lord's Table as We do those who die in the Peace of the Church but We do Commemorate them that they may pray for Vs that we may follow their Steps Tract 84. in Joa Again Holy Mary * Note that the Sermon whence this Passage is taken is ascrib'd by some Critics to St. Fulgentius but whether of the two it belongs to it matters not being both Fathers of Great Renown and of the same Age. succour the Distressed help the Pusillanimous cherish those that Mourn pray for the People mediate for the Clergy intercede for the Devout Female Sex let every one perceive thy Assistance who celebrate thy Commemoration Ser. 18. de Sanctis Theodoret We do not address our Selves unto the Martyrs as unto Gods but we pray unto them as Divine Men that they wou'd please to become Legats or Intercessors for us Ser. 8. de Martyr lib. Curat Grae● Affect The Council of Calcedon Act. 11. has these Words 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Flavianus Liveth after his Death the Martyr will pray for us or as the Translators render it Let the Martyr pray for us it being usual with the Orientals to put the Future Tense for the Imperative Here is a General Council of more than 600 Bishops desiring the Martyr Flavianus to pray for Them This Council was held in the Year 451 and is one of the four first General Councils whose Acts and Decrees the Church of
England Divines do profess to receive So that it cannot be enough admir'd what shou'd induce them to reject the Invocation of Saints I shou'd never end if I shou'd bring all the Sayings of the Fathers on this Subject St. Austin has a long Discourse upon it against Faustus the Manichean where He gives at large the Reasons why the Catholic Church gives due Honour to the Martyrs and desires the Assistance of their Prayers And St. Jerom wrote a Book against Vigilantius upon this Subject and calls him Heretic for denying the Lawfulness of praying to Saints I shall therefore conclude with this Reflection that it is not reasonable to believe nay 't is incredible that these Holy Fathers who took so much pains to propagate the Faith and Gospel of Jesus Christ who wrote so many Learned and Voluminous Works which breath so much Piety and Christian Devotion spent all their Lives in Holy and Religious Exercises consecrated their Time and Labour to the Service of the True and Living God and were ready to lay down their Lives for the Truth of the Doctrine which they taught and practis'd if Occasion requir'd shou'd at the same Time write and practice a Doctrine which derogates from the Honour and Mediatorship of Jesus Christ it being their chief Study and Care to inculcate to the World that He was the only Lord and Mediator in whose Name and no other Salvation was to be had But if the Doctor shou'd say as many of his Brethren have that all these Holy Fathers err'd and consequently did not understand the Doctrine they labour'd so earnestly to Propagate I answer him as St. Austin did a certain Man to whom I fear the Doctor was in some Things but too near akin Mallem cum eis errare quam tecum consentire I had rather err with the Fathers than agree with Him Thus I have endeavour'd as plainly and briefly as I cou'd to shew how Reasonable how Harmless how Inoffensive the Invocation of Saints is and how agreeable to the Practice of the Holy Fathers and the Primitive Church I now proceed Lastly to return a brief Answer to what Dr. Tillotson thought fit to bring against this Point Here I wou'd not be understood as if I meant to answer all the little Objections and pretty qu●rks of Wit which he endeavours to improve with all his Art and Eloquence in order no doubt to catch the well-meaning but weaker sort of People with this Fig-leaf Cover which yet all sober thinking Men may easily see thro' My Design is to answer only such Objections as have any real or apparent Difficulties being convinc'd that things naked or so thinly cover'd need no Reading upon His first Objection is taken out of St. Paul Colos 2.18 Vol. ● edit post obit pag. 43 44 45 19. Where the Apostle says Let no Man beguile you of your Reward in a voluntary Humility and worshiping of Angels not holding the Head By which Words says the Doctor St. Paul intimates that for Christians to address themselves to God by any other Mediator than Jesus Christ only was a Defection from the Head This He says is Theodoret's Interpretation of that Passage in his Comment upon it and the third Chapter ver 17. of the same Epistle and to enforce this Interpretation he cites a Canon of the Council of Laodicea which says That Christians ought not to forsake the Church of God and go away from it and to invocate Angels and to make Conventicles all which are forbidden if therefore any be found giving himself to this secret Idolatry let him be Anathema because he hath forsaken our Lord Jesus Christ the Son of God and is gone over to Idolatry After which Words the Dr. breaks out into this Exclamation What shall be said to them who do not only secretly and in their Private Devotions but in the public Assemblies of Christians and in the most public Offices of their Church invocate Angels and pray to them Before I answer this Objection it won't be amiss to clear the Equivocation which in most controversial Disputes commonly attends these two words Worship and Invocation I worship is render'd in Latin colo or adoro in Greek 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in Hebrew 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and in these three Languages 't is us'd in Scripture and in common Discourse not only to signifie the supream Worship and Honour we pay to Almighty God but also for all sort of Respect and Reverence done to Kings Princes and Persons of Condition Of this we have innumerable Examples in Scripture and not only so but the very Word which we use to signifie the supream Worship due to God alone is sometimes applied to human Affairs For as we say colere Deum to worship God colere Parentes to honour our Parents colere Vineam colere Agrum Hortum c. to till the Vineyard to till the Ground c. Yet no Man ever said that we rob God of his due Honour by using the same Expression to signifie the Respect we pay some Creatures which we use when we express the Honour due only to Him because the different Ideas or Notions we have of God and these Creatures sufficiently determin our meaning tho' the want of Words or rather the Conveniency of delivering our Thoughts in fewer Words oblige us to make use of the same Term to express these different Services In like Manner the Word Invocation is us'd in Scripture not only to signifie our calling upon God as our Sovereign Lord and Maker but is also us'd and applied in several places to ordinary Men. For instance Isaiah says Seven Women shall take hold of one Man saying we will eat our own Bread and wear our own Apparel only let thy Name be invocated upon us to take away our Reproach Tantum invocetur Nomen tuum super nos Cap. 4.1 So that if we do not attend to the Subject Matter to which these Words are applied the Scripture will afford us sufficient Grounds for Worshipping and invocating not only God Angels and Saints but even common ordinary Men. To worship and invocate then must necessarily mean to exhibit a Service and Duty to those whom we worship and call upon according to the Notion or Idea we have of their Excellency and Perfection and of the Power and Ability we conceive in them to help and assist us And then to Worship God and invocate Him must mean to pay Him the Supream Honor and Respect which is due only to the Great Creator and Redeemer of the World and to beg Mercy and Forgiveness of Him as the Source and Fountain of all Goodness but to Worship and Invocate the Angels and Saints must mean no more than to shew them that respect and honor which is due to the Friends and Courtiers of our Sovereign Lord and to ask their Help and Assistance in those things which we conceive they are able to do that is to pray for us and to recommend us to their