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A01004 God and the king. Or a dialogue wherein is treated of allegiance due to our most gracious Lord, King Iames, within his dominions Which (by remouing all controuersies, and causes of dissentions and suspitions) bindeth subiects, by an inuiolable band of loue and duty, to their soueraigne. Translated out of Latin into English.; Deus et rex. English Floyd, John, 1572-1649.; More, Thomas, 1565-1625, attributed name. 1620 (1620) STC 11110.7; ESTC S107002 53,200 142

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● rather approue teach that regall au●hority was created imediatly of God ●ogether with mans nature and is for●ally in euery absolute and free state ●hich state when they choose for thē●●lues a Kinge doth not produce a new ●ind of power which was not before ●ut the royall Soueraignty which God ●reated and bestowed vpon them they ●●ansferre from himselues to the per●●n elected by which coniunction of ●●e Commonwealths power with ●●s person he is created King In the ●●ke manner parents produce children ●●t by producing the soule which is 〈◊〉 God only but by conioyuing the ●ule created of God to the bodie pre●●red and de●igned by generation ●●erunto True then is the saying of 〈◊〉 Paul Omnis potestas à Deo est All power is 〈◊〉 God and only imediatly f●ō God 〈◊〉 ioyned with particuler persons 〈◊〉 without the mediation of man ●ence saith Tertullian cited by this ●●eatiser Kings haue their power whence ●●r spirit both created by God only but as the spirit is not infused into th● bodie without the concourse of Pa●rents so neither is Royall powe● vnited with this or that person bu● by the consent of their Country Yo● see that euen in this opinion Kings ar● no lesse beholding to the Common●wealth for their authority then Chil●dren to their Parents for their soules 〈◊〉 whose being parents concurre onl● designing the matter and making th● same a fit receptacle for their soule● Vayne then is Theodidacts subtil●y 〈◊〉 make Kings beholding to God onl● and no lesse vayne is his speculatiō 〈◊〉 proue their exemption from men Kin● saith he as they receaue their power ●ro● God ōly so ●or the good or euil administratiō th●●reof they are accountable only to God Who se● not the weaknes of this inferēce thou●● the antecedent were true The soule 〈◊〉 men is of God only yet for wordes 〈◊〉 deedes proceeding from the same m●● are accountable to mor●al Superiou●● The power of Father ouer his child●●● the power of husband ouer his w●●● is of God only yet for the administr●●tion therof they may be called to a●●●unt by the Commonwealth yea ●●s authority which God hath giuen ●●em when they tyranize ouer wife ●●d children the Commonwealth ●ay restrayne or vtterly take from ●●em To conclude and summe vp ●is whole discourse in few wordes ●hat Saul or Dauid or any King had ●wer only from God is at the least 〈◊〉 vncertainty thence to infer the ●●●e of al Kings is a meer vanity That 〈◊〉 Kings haue power from God only ●●th no probability Graunt all yet ●●ueraignty cannot out of these prin●●●les be concluded seeing some ●wer only from God may be subor●●●ate to superiors on earth Theodida●●● ● did he not desire that royal Soue●●●gnty should fall would he thinke 〈◊〉 striue so earnestly to haue the 〈◊〉 builded on this heape of sand Philanax Doth not this doctrine that ●●nces are made by the consent of the ●●●monwealth impare the Maie●●●f Kings and the reuerence and ●●●ration due thereunto A●istobulus No but rather increase the sam● more then the contrary conceipt Fo● if men be made to the image and likenes of God sonnes of God and God on earth principally in respect of th● soueraignty they haue to rule themsel●ues and other Creatures when this di●uine Maiesty of nature is wholy trans●ferred from the Communalty to on● person how sacred venerable ma● he be thought as in the beginning o● the world the waters that were vn●der the Heauens gathering into on● place made this vast ocean we see s● the heauenly guift of Soueraignty d●●ffused in euery free and absolute state when they by common consent em●●tying exhausting themselues d●●riue the same to one person b●●comes a fountaine or rather a may● sea of Maiesty and power which 〈◊〉 humane in regard of the person 〈◊〉 which it is the manner it com● vnto him but diuine if we looke 〈◊〉 the spring whence it originally a●● immediatly floweth To which pu●●●ose the Poet singeth not amisse Terrae Dominos pelagique futuros ●●menso decuit rer●m de Principe nasci Philanax I am satisfied see plainely that his immediate receauing power frō God only is but an empty title with●ut substance which his Maiesty will ●ot regard being ●●ll of true glory ●lexander was not wise in his vaine am●ition to be thought Iupiters sonne ●hereby he lost their hartes that had ●ost helped him to the Monarchy of ●he earth Aristobulus The conceipt is not only idle ●mpty but also may preiudice Kings As Hercules choaked the giant by hol●ing him aloft in the ayre whom by ●hrowing against the ground he could ●ot ouercome so the enemies of Kings whome by their doctrine that depre●sed them vnder the feete of common ●eople they could not make way ●ith flattering subiectes they lift to ●he skyes that they may more dangerously fall For such conceipts by raising Kings beyond measure aboue t●● heades of their subiects remoue the● much further frō their hearts whic● are whatsoeuer flatterers say the im●●diate foūtaine of their greatnes th● only seat of security they may tru● vnto Such Monarches as though● themselues sure being feared thoug● they were also ha●●d haue left behin● them lamentable documents tha● they were deceaued and that the say●ing of a prudent historian is most tru● Nullum stabile regnum nis● beneuolentia muni●tum No King can long raigne who i● not walled in and guarded about wit● the Loue of his subiects Mans lou● with ease descendes to persons vnde● him either by naturall descent whic● is the cause they loue so deerly thei● Children or by voluntary subiection which is the reason we loue them tha● do freely deuote them●elues to ou● seruice Neither did God in the trea●sure of his infinite wisdome find any better meanes to wynne mans a●ffection then to descend both to re●cea●e life and being from man glory●●●g to be stiled the sonne of man and af●●●ward to liue as an humble seruant 〈◊〉 man performing the greatest ser●●ce of Charity to dye for him It ●●nnot be thought how louely to man ●aiesty is that professeth to come of ●●s stocke and to be wholy consecra●●d to his loue you may by this ghesse ●ow pernicious this new doctrine is ●●at dryeth vp thes● two fountaines 〈◊〉 peoples affection towards their ●rince by making him skorne to be ●●ought though S. Peter so tearmes ●●m the creature of man much lesse ●●eir seruant rather then absolute ●●ord that may dispose of their liues ●●uings at this will Contrary to this was the iudgmēt ●f all the worthiest and best Roman ●mperors that raigned happily and ●●ed quietly in their bedds They did ●ost willingly acknowledge the Em●ire to be the guift of the people and ●enate they were much more carefull ●f their Subiects good then of their ●wne yea they seemed not to regarde ●easons against their persons that ●ere not ioyned with other publicke d●triment Amongst the●e Traian i● eminēt who being chosen Emperou● straight
this his will gaue com●maundment to his people and effectu●ally stirred vp t●●ir hartes to mak● them Kings These are remote title● and a farre of but it can neuer be proued that in making Saul and Daui● Kings the peoples graunt did no● concur with Gods yea the Scriptur● signifies that it did saying all the peopl● went to Galgala and made Saul King before th● Lord. The elders of Iudath and Israel annointe● Dauid King ouer them Philanax Some say the people made Saul an● Dauid Kings not by giuing them Kingly power this was from God only but by manifestin● that they were Kings by approuing them 〈◊〉 Kings made by God by putting them into th● possession of their Kingdomes to exercise rega● authority Aristobulus I know that Theodidact answereth 〈◊〉 this sorte but proof of his sayings 〈◊〉 bringeth none Doth he thinke the ●●llar of Soueraignity stands firme in●●gh vpon his bare word What if one ●●y that the people did likewise con●●r with God to make them Kings ●●n Theodidact thinke you cleerly con●●te him Verily this concourse of God ●●d people to make a King is insinua●●d in Deuteronomy Thou shalt make him ●ing whom thy Lord God hath chosen for thee ●●gnifying that God designed the per●●n but the people made him King 〈◊〉 bestowing authority on him And ●●ing God vseth not to do things on●● by himselfe when secondary agents 〈◊〉 present sufficient to worke them ●●y may we not thinke that God ha●●ng designed the persons of Saul and ●●uid left the making them Kings to ●●e people of the Iewes who had no ●●●se power then other free Common●●althes to constitute for themselues ●●uernours and Kings Heere you may see in what danger to fall regall supremacy is which Th●●odidact buildeth vpon this discour●● Saul and Dauid had power only an● immediatly from God therfore th● same is to be beleeued of other Kings● The antecedent is vncertaine and ca● neuer be proued as hath beene sayd● but much more seely is the cōsequen●● which extendeth Gods speciall f●●uours shewed to his people in th● choice of their Kings to the generali●● of Kings and Nations God fed h●● people in the des●rt with bread ma●● by the hands of Angells may we thē●● inferre that men haue no bread b●● cōmeth immediatly from heauen But to omit these Kings that wer● by Gods expresse comission personall● designed that other Kings haue pow●● ōly frō God is a paradox which scar● any Christian Deuine houldes C●●tholicks Puritans forraine Prot●●stants euen our English Conform●●tants deriue regall authority from th● Commonwealth Let the truth b● tryed by the testimony of two Can ●ame any grauer Authors in o●● Church then Doctor Bilson late Bisho● ●f VVinchester M. Hooker The first in ●is Trea●ise of Christian Subiection ●ebateth this question and defineth ●hat Kings are not only creatures of ●he Commonwealth but also in some ●ases may be deposed by the supreame ●urisdiction thereof And that Chilperick was iustly deposed by his Nobles and ●ipin chosen King in his place M. Hooker ●ath these wordes all publick regiment 〈◊〉 what kinde soeuer seemeth euidently to haue ●●sen from deliberate aduise and consultation ●nd composition betwene men ordeyning the ●●me and yeilding themselues subiect therevnto ●ithout which consent there were no reason ●a● one man should take vpon him to be Lord or ●udge ouer others And againe To Fathers ●●aith he within their priuate ●amilies na●●re hath giuen supreme power howbeit ouer ● whole grande multitude hauing no such de●●ndency vpon any one and consisting of many ●●milies impossible it is that any one shold haue ●●mplete and full power without consent of ●●n He graunteth indeed that some ●ings and law-make●s as Moyses Saul ●●uid were aut●orized by God and by ●●●resse commission immediatly and personally ●●aued ●rō him ou● of this case saith he the power of gouernment and making lawes 〈◊〉 commaund whole politik societies of men be●longeth so properly vnto the same entire socie●ties that for any Prince or Potentate vpon ear●● of what kind● soeuer to exercise the same 〈◊〉 himselfe not by authority deriued at the fir●● from their consent vpon whose persons they im●pose lawes it is no better then meere tyranny● Thus he writeth and thus our own Authors ouerthr●w Theodidacts new piller of Soueraigntie proclaymin● those Princes playne tyrāts that claym● power deriued from God and natur● and not originally from the grau●● and cōsent of their subiects For whic● their opinions reasons may be brough● very vrgent The practise of all Cou●●tryes that haue trāsferred the Crown● from family to family haue restrayne● and enlarged the boundes thereof b● politick lawes What reason if we r●●spect only the law of God and natur● why Spaine shold be gouerned by a M●●narch rather then Venice That i● England women may succeede to th● Crowne frō which they are exclude● in France That in Scotland the Crown● descendeth to the neerest in bl●ud a●● 〈◊〉 Poland the Kinge is made by the free ●●oice of States What is the reason ●●at by the law of nations the whole Commonwealth may be punished ●rought into bondage for the sinnes ●f their Prince Why shold the Princes ●●ymes be imputed to them if it were 〈◊〉 their choice neither at the first to ●aue him nor afterward to want him ●ithout question ●he generall voice ●f h●mane kind is that Common●ealthes haue power to make Princes ●nd vpon iust reason vnmake them ●nd therfore they are accountable to ●●her neighbouring States if they ad●it one to the Crowne with their in●●ry or finding him incorrigible do ●ot remoue him Whence ariseth that ●●onge inclination in subiects to fight ●●r their Prince to wit from loue to ●●stify their owne doings the States ●●blick iudgment of their Princes ●orthines Philanax It cannot be well denyed but the ●●nsent of the Commonwealth either ●●e or enforced by Conquest concur●eth to the making of the Prince but Theodidact sayth that is not the originall and mediate fountaine o● this authority● Heate moisture colde and our temper arising from them are preparations whereby our bodies are made fit receptacles for the soule but the Creator o● our soule is God so Princes haue their claymes and ti●les by election or conquest but the prime Author of their power is God as they receaue their power only from God s● for the good or euill administration thereof they are accountable only to God Aristobulus This discourse of Theodidact groundeth Royall authority vpon another vncertainty which Deuines debate i● their schooles whether royall powe● be produced by the Commonwealt● whē Kinges are made or being create● by God together with mankind fro● the b●ginning is communicated b● the Commonwealth to their King● Some say that the Commonweal●h making Kinges produceth a new kin● of power which before was not whence they inferre that the Commō●wealth hath a more eminent authorit● ●hen the Kinge as being able to giue ●eing to his power others whom