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A42139
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Pax vobis, or Ghospell and libertie against ancient and modern papists. By E.G. preacher of the word. Dedicated to the right honble the Lord Halyfax
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Griffith, Evan, A.M., Minister of Alderly.
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1679
(1679)
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Wing G1990; ESTC R215168
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69,211
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191
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commonly believed by the Protestans and Popish Church we believe in Jesus Christ the son of God of one and the same substance and nature with the Father they believe in a Jesus Christ son of God but of a distinct and different nature and substance from the Father Isaac Pish that 's but a nicetie believe what you please and what you vndestand by Scripture to be true and have charitie Ismael I confess you have puzzled but yet not wholy convinced me were I but perswaded that what you have discoursed is truly the Doctrin of the reformation J would cheerfully embrace it and J will be better informed by your self but not tyre your patience we will meet again and pursue our Discours vpon this subject II. DIALOGUE ISMAEL Reflecting in my solitude vpon your last discours J find it bottom'd vpon a fals principle for you suppose that what euer Doctrin is of Luther Calvin or any of our Learned Drs Synods Parliaments or Congregations is the Doctrin of the Reformation and may without any more proof or scruple be believed by any Reformed Child who but sees this is ridiculous to fasten the Doctrin and absurd opinions of each particular Dr or Congregation vpon the whole body this is the vncharitable and vnreasonable art of the Papists who keep a great coyl with som exorbitaÌ„t opinions of Luther and Calvin and would perswade their Proselyts they are the Tenets of the Reformation wheras the Reformation disclaims those opinions as much as the Pope does and they do not poore people observe how many absurd and scandalous Doctrins we meet in their Casuists and Divins which when we reproach them with they answer it s not the Doctrin of their Church but of som particular Drs as if we might not with as much justice as they answer the same Isaac Your reflection is good and my discours will fall to ground if I do not prove that principle which will be no hard task Let vs imagin we are heere a full synod of Protestants Presbyterians Hugonots Lutherans Antitrinitarians Anabaptists Quakers and of all and each of our Congregations our Reformation is not any of these Congregations with an exclusion of the rest but all of them ioyntly for whatsoeuer Congregation would say it self alone is the Reformation and no other would be hiss'd at by the rest and iustly because that our Reformation imports two points essentialâ—y first a Profession of Christianitie according the Rule of the Word of God and a detestation or abjuration of Popish Errors and none of these Congregations but does both Ismael I know som of these Pharisee like despise others and Looke upon them not as Refâ—rmed but as putrid members but the Lord forbid I should be so deuoid of charitie I see no just challenge any can have to the Title of Reformation which all haue not Isaac Let vs ask this synod by what Rule of faith does the Reformation walk what must a man believe for to be a true Reformed Protestants will say that Scripture and Apostolical Tradition but Protestants say of Papists and Presbyterians and Anabaptists say of Protestants that many human inventions are obtruded upon vs as Apostolical Traditions that we have no way to discern the one from the other and conâ—â—quently Tradition as being an vnknown thing vnto vs cannot be our Rule others will say that Scripture and the indubitable consequences out of it is our Rule all will grant this but then enters the Controversie if the consequences of Lutherans be such and if the consequences of Presbyterians be indubitable out of Scripture and each Congregation will say that their peculiar Tenets are indubitable consequences out of Scripture and the rest must allow it to be true or deny such a Congregation to be of the Reformation Others will say that Scripture and the four first General Councils with the Apostles and Athanasius's Creeds are our Rule of faith but most of the assembly will no more admit the four first than the subsequent Councils nor Athanasius his Creed more than that of Trent nor will the Quakers Socinians and others value the Apostles Creed But there is none of all the Assembly who will not admit Scripture that 's the pure written word of God to be a sacred and full Rule of faith because it s replenisht with Divin light and all Heavenly instruction necessarie for our saluation and such as ad as a part of our Rule of faith the Apostles or Athanasius his Creeds or the four first General Councils they will confess that all they containe is expressed in Gods written word and are but a plainer or more distinct expression or declaration of the Contents of Scripture Ismael Truly I must grant you this that I have been often present at severall discourses of Protestants with Papists and never yet could I heare a Protestant make Councils Tradition or any thing els the Test of their discours but onely scripture not but that I could heare them say and pretend in their discourses that Apostolical Tradition and the four first Councils were for them against Popery but still their main strength and vltimat refuge was Scripture for when ever they harp vpon that string of Tradition and Councils the Papists are visibly too hard for them and then they run to Scripture than which there is no plus vltra I have been also often at severall discourses betwixt Protestans Presbyterians and our brethren of other Congregations and have observed that the Protestant for to defend his lyturgie Rites and Ceremonies of the Church of England and her Episcopacy against the others could never defend himself by scripture alone and placed his main strength against them in Tradition Primitive Councils and ancient Fathers all which the others rejected and reproached the Protestant with Popery for making vse of that weapon that if thy would stick to those Principles as their Rule of faith they must admit many Tenets of Popery which they disavow that nothing but scripture is a sufficient warrant and Rule of faith And I find by all I could ever well vnderstand that its the General apprehension and belief of all the Reformation that Scripture abundantly contains all we are obliged to believe and is our sole and adequat Rule of faith and that our recours to Tradition Councils Fathers c. are but shifts of some of our Drs. who being Non plust in their particular engagements and Sophistries patch the incoherencie of their discours with these raggs of Popery Isaac I commend your ingenuity but not that heate which transports you to check our Drs for their glosses and particular Doctrins vpon Scripture which as the Manna relisht of all sorts of Victuals which the Eaterâ— fancied admits several senses according the different spirits and measure of light that God gives to the Reader and it is vndoubtedly the the Spirit of the Reformation to follow what sense of it he likes best and not to check others for following this or that as
word Isaac How can you say I beate you from all Religion when I directly perswade you to follow the Rule of faith of our Reformation Scripture as each Person of sound judgment vnderstands it let this be your Religion if you will be a true Reformed Whateuer you judge in your conscience to be true let the Church of England or France or any other say and believe what they will you are to believe but what you judge by scripture to be true and this is the Religion of the Reformation Ismael J would gladly know if it be lawfull to chop or change the text Isaac It 's the Doctrin of the Reformation that you cannot because God has forbid to add to or take away from his word and therefore wee condemn the Papists for their Traditions obtruded vpon the flock as the Word of God It 's also the Doctrin of the Reformation and the practise of our best Reformers when the text does not speake cleerly enough that for to refute Popery and establish our own Doctrin wee may add or diminish a word or two which is not to change the Word of God but to make it speake more expresly as when Luther had a mind to preach Iustification by faith alone finding the Text said but Man is justified by faith he added the word Alone and made the Text very cleer against Popery which formerly was somwhat obscure Zuinglius being to teach the Figurative presence of Christ in the Sacrament found the Text this is my Body to be too pat against his Doctrin and insteed of Is put in this signifieth The Church of England being to preach the kings Spiritual Supremacy could not convince the obstinat Papist by the Original text which saide 1. Pet. 2 submit yourselvts vnto every human creature for the Lord's sake whether it it be the king as excelling or to c. But in king Edwards time they altered one word and made the text thus submit yourselves to every Ordinance of man whether it be to the king as being the cheef head and the following impressions of the Bible the yeare 1557. and 79. saie To the king as supreame And so the true Ductrin is cleerly convinced out of Scripture as also the Lawfullness of Priests marriageâ— for the text before the Reformation said 1. Cor. 9 have not wee power to leade about a Woman sister and now our Bibles say have not wee power to leade about a Wife being our sister hence its evident according the Doctrine and practise of our Reformation that when you have a mind to establish a Doctrin which you judge to be true you may change the text and make it speake to your sense and meaning provided you judge your sense to be true Ismael What do you think of Iustifying faith does faith alone justify vs Isaac It 's the Doctrin of the Reformation that without charity it cannot because S. Paul saies 1. Cor. 13. if I have faith so as to move mountains and have no charity I am nothing It 's also the Doctrin of the Reformation that its impious and wicked to say faith alone without charity does not justify this is Scripture as interpreted by Luther a man of sound judgment Who say quoth Luther that faith alone tho perfect it be cannot justify without charitie say impiously and wickedly because faith alone without any good works doth justify Believe which Doctrin you please both are of the Reformation Ismael Luther was insolent in checking the Doctrin of S. Paul Isaac Probably he did not reflect that it was the Doctrin of the Apostle and if you will have it to be a check of S. Paul Luther will answer for himself Be it saies he that the Church Augustiâ— or other Drs also Peter and Paul nay and an Angel from heaven should teach otherwise than as I teach yet my Doctrin is such that it setteth forth Gods glory I know I teach no human but Divin Doctrin It 's the Doctrin of the Reformation that faith alone without any good works and notwithstanding all sins you are guiltie of doth justify you this is Scripture as interpreted by Luther who saies nothing can damn you but incredulity as nothing but faith can save you of Whitaker Wotten fulk and Beza whose words I related in our precedent Dialogue which J believe you remember and J need not repeat Jts also the Doctrin of the Reformation that good workes are meritorious of grace and glorie Hocker and Harmonia confess say its the Doctrin of scripture and what any Person of sound judgment judges to be the Doctrin of scripture he may believe it for this is our Rule of faith it s like wise the Doctrin generally of all our Church that good Works are not at all meritorious Tindal called by Fox a Man of God and a constant Martyr judges this to be so true that in his treatise de Mammona iniquitatis he saies Christ himself did not by all his good Works merit the glory and tho the scripture saies expresly he did Calvin affirms that its a foolish curiosity to examin and a rash proposition to say Christ did merit Jt's the Doctrin of the Reformation that tho good works be not meritorious nor have not the least influence in our justification or salvation yet they are absolutly needfull for both in as much as that true faith cannot be without good Works because they are the marks and signs of a living faith by which alone wee are saved this is the judgment of the Church of England expressed in the 11. and 12. Article of the 39. and of Melancton in locis Commun de Bonis operibus and you may believe it You may also believe and its the Doctrin of the Reformation that good Works are so farr from being needfull that they are prejudicious and hurtfull to our salvation and the best way to be saved is to do no good Work at all this is scripture as interpreted by Jlliricus Flaccius Amsdorfius quoted in Act. Colloq Aldeburg pag. 205. and 299. and Luther was so deeply perswaded of this truth that tho Christ said If â—hou wilt enter into the kingdom of heaven keep the Commandments Luther saies it s an obstacle to our Salvation to keep them Where it is said quoth he that faith in Christ doth indeed justify vs but that it is necessary also to keep the Commandements there Christ is denied and faith abolisht because that which is proper to faith alone is attributed to the Commandements And again saies he if faith be-acompanied with good Works it s â—o true faith that it may justifie it must be alone without any good Works This is Scripture as interpreted by such Eminent and sound men and consequently the Doctrin of the Reformation and who doubts but that any Doctrin of the Reformation may be believed Hence forward when you hear the preacher exhort you to good Works you may believe him if you please and have a