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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A41780	Hear the church, or, An appeal to the mother of us all to all the baptized believers in England, exhorting them to stedfastness in the truth, according to the scriptures : together with some farther considerations of seven queries, sent to the baptized believers in Lincolnshire, concerning the judge of contriversies in matters of religion : in three parts / by Thomas Grantham.	Grantham, Thomas, 1634-1692.	1687 (1687)	Wing G1536; ESTC R5931	41,980	66

the perfect words of the New Testament whereto nothing may be added and wherefrom nothing may be taken away by him that will lead a life agreeable to the Gospel Euseb Hist l. 5. c. 14. Thus Brethren I have for your sakes as well as others taken a fresh view of the State of this most Primitive Church to whose holy pattern through the Grace of God you have diligently laboured to conform your souls her Principles are yours her Government in good measure is yours if in any thing any of them be otherwise minded my hearts desire is that God would speedily reveal even the same unto you and then it is to be hoped that all well disposed will in time see themselves concerned to adhere to the truth of your Principles in the very Order wherein you maintain them Hear the Church OR AN EPISTLE TO All the Baptized Christians in England Exciting them to Stedfastness in their Holy Profession under their various Tryals and great Afflictions The Second PART BRETHREN AS it hath pleased God to exercise you many years with various Tryals and Afflictions for your Faithfulness to the Christian Religion in respect of the Restoration of it to its ancient Purity both in the Form and Power of it wherein you have laboured hitherto and have not fainted but by the Grace of God have attained to some degree in that behalf above what hath as yet been attained by the generality of your Country-men for which you owe the greatest Thankfulness to Almighty God. And having as I verily believe laid a right Foundation for a true Church-State you are indispensibly obliged to go on unto perfection as the first Churches which were built upon the same Foundation were expresly required and exhorted Heb. 6. 1 2 3. In which Holy Profession being by the Grace of God one with you and also called to the Ministry and Office of a Messenger of your Churches which I mention because it is the most despised Office amongst all Christians as it seems to have been in the Apostles days 1. Cor. 4. 9. do hold it my Duty at this time to endeavour to strengthen you in what I may in your Holy Profession as also to call upon such as have been shaken in mind by the violence of those Temptations which have befallen them in common with their Brethren For as it is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God as those undoubtedly shall who draw back from the Truth they have once embraced unto Perdition so I am very confident that for any to fall from the Truth as it is professed by the Baptized Churches is the most dangerous of all other they being indeed the nearest to the Truth in the Pristine Order and Simplicity of it of all sorts of Persons who own the Honorable Appellation of Christian For What sort of Christians can with any Confidence look upon or bring themselves close to the Rules of St. Pauls Catechism Heb. 6. 1 2. as the Antients used to call it except the Baptized Churches To say nothing of others can they of the present Roman Catholick-Church in any wise square themselves or justifie their present Church-State by the Rule of those Sacred Principles in the simplicity of them No these Principles of Christ's Doctrine will in no wise be concordant with the Catechism of the present Roman Church seeing a Doctor of their own hath told us that if the Scriptures must be our Rule c. they must all cross the Cudgels to the Anabaptists which is a plain giving up the Victory to the Baptized Churches unless a better Form of Doctrine can be assigned than this is which will never be Yea so pressing is this place from the true Institution of the Antient Christian Religion that the Rhemists seem to be under no small difficulty how to express themselves about it For thus they speak upon the Text Heb. 6. 1 2. We see hereby say they what the first grounds of Christian Institution or Catechism were in the Primitive Church and that there was ever a necessary Instruction and Belief of certain Points had by Word of mouth and Tradition before men came to the Scriptures which could not treat of things so particularly as was requisite for the teaching of all necessary Grounds Among these Points were the twelve Articles contained in the Apostles Creed The Doctrine of Penance before Baptism the Manner and Necessity of Baptism the Sacrament of Imposition of Hands after Baptism called Confirmation the Articles of the Resurrection Judgment and such like without which things first laid if one should be sent to pick his Faith out of the Scriptures there would be mad Rule quickly 1. It 's highly observable from hence that the first Grounds and Principles of our Churches which indeed are no other than what men read Heb. 6. 1 2. are openly acknowledged by our most Potent Opposites to be the same which were in the Primitive Church received for the first Grounds and Institutions of Christianity or Christian Institution and Catechism That in the Primitime Church these Grounds were held in the very Order now observed by the Baptized Churches particularly Repentance before Baptism and Imposition of Hands after Baptism Sure this is a full Testimony that the Institution of the Baptized Churches now wrongfully called Anabaptists and theirs only is truly Apostolical Whilst all the Paedobaptists in the World among whom the Papists have quite subverted this Order giving their supposed Baptism before Repentance and that unto Persons that are not capable of Repentance 2. They tell us there was a necessary Instruction and Belief of certain Points had by Word of Mouth and Tradition before men came to the Scripture Admit this to be so in respect of such parts of the Holy Scriptures as were then unwritten when the Apostles first preached the Gospel yet it is certainly false in respect of such Books of Scripture as were then in being for it 's evident that our Blessed Saviour propounded the Text of Scripture Luke 4. 17 18 19. and thence preached to the People and commanded his Hearers to search the Scriptures John 5. 29. He did not send his Hearers to Tradition as the Papists do The great Apostle of the Jews St. Peter even then when he was filled with the Holy Ghost Acts 2. 17. preached from and notably confirms his Doctrine by the Scriptures Act. 2. not by Tradition And Philip Acts 8. 35. began at the same Scripture which the Eunuch read and preached to him Jesus without making any use of Tradition Apollo being mighty in the Scripture not in Tradition convinced the Jews shewing not by Tradition but by the Scriptures that Jesus is the Christ So did the great Apostle of the Gentiles St. Paul Acts 28. 2● Perswading men concerning Jesus out of the Law and the Prophets not out of Tradition from Morning to Evening and the best sort of St. Paul's Hearers searched the Scriptures daily not Tradition to see whether the

question be about Christ and his Church there must we find them both or no where If any Man like not this Doctrine let him shew me if he can these lovely Objects without being beholden to the Scripture Some I have known to attempt this but with lamentable success being soon driven to a shameful silence and indeed the whole World must depart into utter silence as touching this great Mystery Christ and his Church unless the Word of God as it is delivered in the Holy Scriptures through Faith makes us wise in these great Concernments of Salvation 2 Tim. 3. 14. Let men alledge all the Authors in the World and all the Tradition that ever was if the Holy Scriptures must not be their own Evidence and so capable to command our Belief of them then for the same or rather more forcible Reasons then any Man can bring against the Scriptures all Authors and all Traditions shall be dumb and useless as to the production of the least iota of Divine Faith so that the Papists at the long-run must if they know how shew us their Church without Scripture or any Author and without Tradition also as I have formerly written unto you being provoked thereunto by seven Queries sent by a Learned Papist who in his last to me does undertake to deliver himself from this difficulty after this manner We may saith he prove the Church by the Holy Scripture and the Scripture by the Church and this by a Regressus Demonstrativus without a vicious Circle because we suppose them both sufficiently proved and prudently accepted for such by all the Motives of Credibility as Miracles Holiness c. by which Christ proved himself and his New Gospel But as for the Sense of the Scripture I have more than sufficiently demonstrated that the Scripture it self cannot bear witness for it but that this must be had from a Living Judge viz. the Church the Infallible Interpreter of Gods Word To this I answer briefly That is a vicious Circle out of which no man can lawfully deliver himself but must run in a Round without end and truly such is this Circular Argumentation of my Adversary he will prove his Church by the Scripture 2. He will prove the Scripture to be true by his Church and he will prove his Church true by the Scripture before the Scripture be proved true and he will prove the Scripture to be true after it hath proved his Church true This Meander is no way to be avoided that I can see but by suffering either the Scripture or the Church to be its own Evidence for his Demonstrative Regress makes his Case worse for by it they be both sufficiently proved before either of them be proved and both prudently accepted before either of them be accepted and which is most strange of all the rest these things are all done before the Scripture hath any sense known for of this he is the most of all confident that the Sense of the Scripture must be had from a living Judge viz. the Church the Infallible Interpreter of God's Word So that this is the Conclusion of the whole Matter The Scripture without Sense must prove the Roman Church and the Roman Church must then give the Sense of that Scripture which had no Sense before when it proved Her to be the Church here is indeed a Regressus but no such thing as a Demonstrativus Methinks wise men should consider that the Holy Scripture is its own Interpreter in a great if not the greatest part of it the New Testament being the best Interpreter of the Old Testament and of it self also in many places for Example It tells us in one place that the Heavens must receive Christ from the time of his Ascension till the times of refreshing shall come from the Presence of the Lord. Act. 3. 21. And hence we hold that no Christian must say that the real Body of of Christ which ascended to Heaven is upon the Earth till he shall be sent the second time for God shall send Jesus saith St. Peter because the Scripture tells us in another place That if Jesus were on Earth he should not be a Priest Heb. 8. 4. It is therefore as plain as plain can be that the Papists make void the Priesthood of Christ and contradict St. Peter himself when they tell the World that the real Body of Christ which ascended into Heaven is now really carnally corporally present upon the Earth that is upon their Altars and in the Hands and Mouths of their Priests and People as often as they celebrate Mass and consequently he is so far from being received into Heaven till the time of his second coming that he is according to their own Opinion received bodily upon Earth ten thousand times and in ten thousand places to his being once received bodily into Heaven Sure their Opinion is directly against the Scripture as sure as their Transubstantiation is directly against the best Sense and the best Reason with which Almighty God hath endowed the best of Men as has been clearly evidenced by many learned Discourses among which I would commend to your Perusal one lately published under the Title of A Discourse against Transubstantiation Printed this Year and sold by Mr. Aylmer at the Three Pigeons against the Royal Exchange Price Six Pence My Learned Adversary and indeed the Papists generally do urge us vehemently after this manner admitting that the Church is to follow the Rule of God's revealed Word in all her Definitions yet they hold it extreamly irrational that all that can read it should be his own Interpreter of it for so say they He will be his own Judge And as in a Nation where no Judge of the Law is appointed there can be no Justice but every man will be his own Judge so likewise unless there be a Supream Judge in Matters of Faith to wit the Church from whom no Appeal may be allowed there can be no end of Controversies c. This Objection is considerable to which I say 1. What my Adversary means by God's revealed Word I do not very well understand but I doubt he extends that Term farther than the Holy Scripture else I am sure enough the Church of Rome has no revealed Word of God to follow in very many of her Observations but to let this pass at present I answer to the Objection thus 2. It seems to be built upon many dangerous Suppositions such as these That we ought to rest upon the Sentence of a Priest for we must hear the Church out of his Mouth for the state of our Soul as on the Sentence of a Judge in a Civil Court for a matter of Debt c. and that we are no more bound to search the Scriptures for Eternal Life than to search the Statute-Book for our Temporal Life nay here I do them no wrong for they will permit us to read the Statute-Book but they forbid us to read the Holy Scripture It supposes

thing upon their own knowledg sight or hearing as the Apostles did 1 John 1. 2 Pet. 1. 16. for scarce so much as one hundred years and this their Testimony also being but of human Authority it remaineth of necessity that some Books of Record must be received upon the Authority of the Author in whose Name they speak and the Divine Evidence of the Matter contained in them and hence we argue the Sufficiency of the Scriptures own Authority to command our reception of them speaking to us in the Name of God and carrying in themselves Divine Evidences in respect of the matters therein contained Papist Query 3. Baptist Anti-query 3. How know you that your Copies and Translations of the Bible are the true Word of God since the Original Writings are not come to your Hands What Copies and Translations of the Scriptures have you that are more true than ours And where are the Original Manuscripts of the Prophets and Apostles Seeing it was not the Pleasure of the Divine Wisdom to preserve and present to all Nations the very first Pieces of Paper in which the Divine Oracles were written but rather to preserve many Copies and cause them to be spread throughout the World. And seeing no sort of Christians dare pretend to have Translated any of those Copies by an infallible Pen but only according to the best Skill they have acquired or learned in the Original Tongues It would better become all Learned Christians to bend their Minds to rectifie what they may any Imperfection or Mistake that may be in any of the Translations rather than by such Queries as this to open a Gap to Vnbelief and Irreligion And though much might be said by a captious Person against the English Translation of the Papists yet to prevent vain Jangling we refuse not to be tried in the Cases depending in these Queries and Anti-queries either by their Translation of the Bible or by that which is allowed by Authority And seeing no Papist is able to produce the prime Originals let them beware how they quarrel with our Copies lest some quarrel with theirs and ●so instead of Edification they bring forth nothing but vain Contention and show themselves ungrateful to God and mischievous to men For what man of any Modesty would upbraid another because he never saw the Original Writings when neither himself nor any man living ever saw them nor is ever like to see them Papist Query 4. Baptist Anti-query 4. Where we differ about the Sense of the Word by whom must we be tried The dead Letter cannot explain it self When we differ about the true Church or the Meaning of Authors be they Fathers or Councils by whom must we be tried These cannot speak for themselves more than the Scriptures And whether the Scriptures being compared together do not explain themselves Also whether this be not an opprobrious and ignominious Speech for you to call the Scripture a dead Letter And whether the true Lovers of the Scriptures ever vouchsafed them such ill and indeed improper Language Of all the Seven Queries this is the most difficult see what we have said to this Difficulty in our precedent Epistle Let the Papists prove themselves to be the true Church and the Contention about the Power of the Church to decide Differences which may arise about the Meaning of the Scriptures will with more ease be brought to a period In the mean time as we must every one give an account of our selves to God so it is the Duty of every Christian to labour to understand the Scriptures Mat. 24. 15. Pro. 22. 20 21. Papist Query 5. Baptist Anti-query 5. What clear Text have you out of the Scriptures for the Procession of the Holy Ghost from the Father and the Son Or for changing the Sabbath from Saturday to Sunday Or for prohibiting Poligamy or Infant-Baptism And whether there be not as clear Texts to prove unwritten Traditions Purgatory and the Real Presence Whether the Baptism of the true Church be not One And whether the one Baptism be not expresly found in the Scriptures and whether the Scriptures do not prohibit all Baptism of Water beside that one And whether the Papists have not confessed in many of their Books that Infant-Baptism is not found in nor grounded upon the Scripture And then whether it be not clear that all the Texts which speak of Baptism in Water do prohibit Infant-Baptism Also whether John 15. 26. 14. 26. 16. 7. be not clear Texts that the Holy Spirit proceedeth from the Father and the Son Also whether 1 Cor. 7. 1 2 3. do not as much prohibit one Man for having two Wives as one Woman for having two Husbands And whether it do not clearly prohibit the latter Also whether there be any thathold the First Day of the Week under the Notion of a Sabbath among the Baptized Churches and yet whether there be not clear proof for the Religious Observation of it Acts 20. 7. 1 Cor. 16. 2. Also whether it be not absurd for you to ask for clear Texts to prove unwritten things Also whether Purgatory and the Real Presence as you hold them are not plainly destructive to some Articles of the Christian Faith. For is not this the Faith of all sound Christians 1. That Almighty God does love no Creature in this World so much as the Creature Man nor does he take any Creature on Earth into that nearness of Vnion with himself as the Souls and Bodies of those that shall be saved 2. That the blessed Body of Christ after his Ascension into Glory admits of no Change either by Addition to his Substance of his Flesh and Blood or Diminution of any part thereof from either Now it is most certain that the Opinion of the Real Presence by Transubstantiation of Bread and Wine into the very Body and Blood of Christ God-Man doth evidently militate against these clear Truths with the greatest opposition as will appear by these Considerations following 1. Though the Love of God to Mankind especially to all that shall be saved is exceeding great yet it is certain he never died nor ever will SO take them into Union with himself AS to Transubstantiate their Bodies into the Divine Substance of Christ and so make their Flesh of the same Essence with himself as he is God Blessed for ever And therefore it is in no wise to be believed That God Almighty so loves the Creatures Bread and Wine as to turn or transubstantiate the very Substance of them into the very Substance of the only Son of God whom we believe to be of one Substance with the Father It is also further to be considered That though the two Natures in Christ i. e. the Divine and Human are united after an unspeakable manner yet no Christian does believe that God did transubstantiate the Substance of the Humane Nature into the Substance of the Divine Nature and that the Forms of Flesh and Blood only does remain How then is

they have punished with the cruelest Death such as in Conscience could not subscribe unto it God give them a better Vnderstanding and more Moderation for the future But ye Brethren as you have received these Holy Decrees among the rest of the Heavenly Rules left unto us by the most Antient Fathers even the Apostles of our Lord so walk in them and keep the Ordinances as they were delivered by them who received them of the Lord. Now the Lord increase our Faith that we may be able to stand fast in the Truth and to overcome all Difficulties So prays your Brother Thomas Grantham Hear the Church c. OR AN EPITOME OF THE CHIEF CONTROVERSIES BETWEEN THE PAPISTS AND THE Baptized Believers By THOMAS GRANTHAM Let that therefore abide in you which you have heard from the Beginning if that which ye have heard from the Beginning shall remain in you ye also shall continue in the Son and in the Father and this is the Promise which he hath Promised us even Eternal Life 1 John. Unto the perfect Words of the New-Testament nothing may be added and from which nothing may be taken away by him that will lead a Life agreeable to the Gospel Apollinar l. 5. c. 14. LONDON Printed in the Year 1687. THE EPISTLE TO THE READER Christian Friend IT is now about six and twenty years since it pleased a Learned Papist to send seven Queries to the People commonly called Anabaptists in the County of Lincoln about which many Papers were exchanged and in the Year 1662 some part of them were Printed under the Title of the Baptist against the Papist or the Scripture and Rome in Contention about the Supreme Seat of Judgment in Controversies of Religion To which the Querist never replied in Print but only sent me a few Notes in Manuscript which seven Queries with my seven Anti-queries I shall annex to this Epistle The Truth is I did then and do still look upon this sort of Christian-Adversaries so I call them to be the most subtil as well as coherent with their Principles keeping close to their Arguments and using all very much the same Mediums and were the Truth with them as in many things I am satisfied it is not this very thing would be their high Commendation But missing the Heavenly Mark more is the pity they must needs be the more dangerous wherein they stand opposed to the Truth of which being very sensible I cannot as I love plain Truth and the Souls of all Men but indeavour as much as in me is after a Christian sort to undeceive if it may be some of them and to prevent others from being deceived by them I speak not this as fearing them but as truly loving them as they bear the name of Christians and doubtless are as zealous in their way as any tho I do verily believe they are under the greatest mistakes of any that prof●ss the Christian Religion except professed Enthusiasts That I treat them in Love is no new thing let my Words written more than twenty years since witness now in my Epistle to the Reader thus you find them Not that I envy those of the Papal Church or desire them any evil Not that I desire they should be exposed to a Suffering Condition for matters of Religion or that they should be denied any liberty in that Respect which I desire my self nor for any other prejudice God knoweth do I publish this small Treatise c. And what I said then I say now being verily perswaded by the Scripture and all good Principles which I could ever meet with that they and all men living soberly and quietly under the Government ought to have at least a friendly connivance under our differing sentiments from the established Form or Order of Worship c. But I am no Dictator I must leave these things to the pleasure of God and the prudence of our Governors only this is my Determination in Christ's strength to live and die faithful to what I know of the ways of Truth and to my own Conscience Praying constantly for the happiness of my Prince and all his peaceable Subjects Tho. Grantham Hear the Church The Third PART CONTAINING AN EPITOME OF THE Controversies depending between those who are commonly called PAPISTS and those commonly called ANA-BAPTISTS Occasioned by Seven Queries propounded by a Learned PAPIST LET the Christian Reader know that it is no idle Conceit of the Parts of the Author above his Brethren nor yet above his Adversaries many of whom are undoubtedly Men of very rare Parts and Accomplishments which moveth him thus to appear and to call forth all the Strength of Rome in Argument to defend their Church and Religion against the poor Baptized Churches in this Nation But it is only the Clear Evidence of Truth on their side as contained in the holy Oracles of God which gives Boldness to this great Undertaking Which in all due Humility Christian Love and yet with holy Confidence is thus attempted for a fair Trial of the Case or Cases depending between the Parties above mentioned In the Name of God therefore let us proceed to the Particulars of the Seven Queries sent to the Baptists by a Learned Papist which indeed contains the Sum of the Controversies between the said Parties Papist Query 1. Baptist Anti-query 1. Whether we are to resolve all Differences in point of Religion only out of the Written Word of God What Controversie in point of Religion can you resolve without the Written Word of God And whether the written Word of God be a perfect Rule for Matters of Religion The first Part of this Anti-query concludes in the Negative the latter Part in the Affirmative and affords as I think this undeniable Argument That which is the only perfect Rule to all Christians in the greatest Matters of Religion and that without which neither Christ the Church nor Christian Religion can be known is the only infallible Rule by which all Controversies in point of Religion are to be resolved But the Holy Scriptures are the only perfect Rule to all Christians in the greatest Matters of Religion and that without which neither Christ the Church nor Christian Religion can be known Ergo The Holy Scriptures are the only infallible Rule by which all Controversies in point of Religion among Christians are to be resolved Papist Query 2. Baptist Anti-query 2. How know you precisely what is the true Word of God Whether some Book must not of necessity speak for it self or be received for God's Word upon its own Evidence and whether the Holy Scriptures do not best deserve that privilege And whether it be not too great presumption to say There are no Holy Books but those which you and we have received for such seeing those which we have tell us there were other Holy Writings which never yet came to our Hands nor to yours Forasmuch as no Society of Christians in these days can bear witness to the truth of any