knowe that we ought to be obedyente to generall Counsels Prentyse The Greeke churche dyd neuer obeye thys coūsell nor all the Easte parte of the worlde and not wythoute a good cause for there they made decrees directly agaynst goddes worde Besydes that it is not vnknowen that many tymes counsels haue erred as it is playne of the counsell kept at Ariminum at Calcedone at Ephesus the seconde tyme and of the counsell kept in Aphrike vnder Ciprian and of many other Yea dyd not in Chrystes tyme y e counsell of the Pryestes and the churche of that tyme erre moste shamefully when they dyd refuse Chrystes doctryne condemnynge both hym and hys Apostles Besydes that coūsels did not alwais set forth the trueth because y t there the greater part dyd ouercome the lesse and the worse the better Priest Hath not our churche the holy gost Howe can it erre then Prentyse Heare ye are not a litell deceaued for thei that haue the holy gost doe not alwayes worke accordyng vnto the same As a carpentar in that he is a carpentar he committeth no faulte in makīg vp hys building but because he is geuen to other thynges or is otherwhyles drunken therfore doth he many tymes amysse Pryeste But the churche hath a promyse of the holy goste and that it shal neuer be forsaken Prentise That doe I graunt and truly this promyse is fulfilled for there be alwayes many in y e church that are of a good iudgement as in the moste corrupted tymes in the churche of Iurye there were Symeon Zacharie Elizabeth Iohn the Baptist the virgin Mary and Ioseph Nathanael and many other that wer partakers of that promysse Yet it foloweth not by the vertue of thys promysse that the counsels dooe neuer erre Prieste But how shal we knowe whether they erre or not Prentis All thynges muste be tryed wyth the touchstōe of the scripture and worde of god for if an aūgel frō heauen shoulde set forth vnto vs any other doctrīe than is comprehended in the boke of god we ought in no wyse to receaue it but to counte it accursed much lesse then if men take vpon them to make decrees contrary to the expresse worde and commaundemente of god oughte they to be harkened vnto Yea except thei can wyth a good and an vpright conscyence say with the blessed apostle S. Paul that we haue receaued of the lorde the same haue we deliuered vnto you folowyng onely and solely the lordes institucion in the matter of the sacramentes it is to be iudged of all Christians y t they are not of god but of the aduersary Sathan the deuil Priest It is not vnknowen vnto you if at least ye haue red the scriptures throughly that the commaundementes of god are deuyded into .2 kyndes Some of them are fyrme and stable for euer so that they can or mai neuer be chaunged or altered and these are called Morall preceptes The other perteyne to externe and outwarde thynges as to cerimonyes and sacramentes and these be not so necessarye but that they may for the necessite of the place and time be chaūged and altered Therfore the church in takinge awaye the one parte of the sacramente from the laye people hath not done amysse seeing the time doth so require Prentyse Where as ye say that the preceptes and commaundements that appertain to externe and outewarde thyngs as to ceremonies and sacraments are not so firme stable and strōg but that they maye vpon a iuste occasyō be chaunged and altered S. Ciprian in his Epistell contra Aquarios is directly agaynst you callynge there the cōmaundemēts and preceptes of thys sacramente grandia y t is to say greate not lyghtly to be estemed and taken Chryste also sayeth that he shalbe y e lest in the kyngdome of heauen that breaketh the lest of hys commaundementes And in the forth of Deuteronomy the lorde hymselfe speaketh these wordes nowe harken O Israel vnto the ordinaunces whereby doubtlesse he vnderstandeth ceremonyes and lawes which I teach you for to do them ye shal put nothing vnto the word which I commaunde you nether dooe aughte there from Which onely precept and commaūdement oughte to beate downe our presumptuousnesse that we wil not only haue our inuencyons to be had in high estimacion and regarded of all men but also to be preferred before gods worde In the xv Chapter of the numbers it is wrytten that the children of Israel were commaunded to haue rybondes of yelowe sylke vpon the vttermoste gardes of theyr garmentes that they lokynge vpon them myght remember al the commaundementes of the Lorde and not seke after their own hearte or after theyr owne eyes after the which they went a whoryng And in the Epistell to the Romans Paul doeth greatly reproue or rebuke the heathen because they wer waxen foolyshe in theyr own imagynacyons and woulde not worshyp god as thei learned to know hym by hys creatures Wherfore sayeth he they were geuen ouer in to filthy cōcupiscence And it is no doubt but that thys manglyng of the Lordes supper doeth appertayne to that kynde of transgression or faute Notwythstandyng I graunte that there is a certayne difference in the preceptes and commaundementes of god For some there be that we are alwayes bounde and subiecte vnto as are the morall commaundementes or those that the lawe and the prophetes do depende vpon whyche are to loue god wyth al our heart with al our strength wyth all our soule and our neighboure as our self Other there bee that we are not alwayes bounde to folowe excepte it bee when the tyme and place other circumstaunces appointed in the worde of god doe require For the Hebrewes myght not offer sacryfices euery where and at al times but vpon certayne dayes and in y e place that god had ordayned and appoynted On the Sabboth daye they could not alwayes abstayne from outwarde workes but were fayne other whyles to fyght as we read in the bokes of the Machabees Agayne circumcision coulde not bee ministred afore the eyght day In lyke maner if any man were desyrous to be baptized and coulde not obtayne it his good wil sh̄old be accepted for the dede it selfe In these thynges therefore when we muste doe the commaundemēt of god it is not lawful to innouat chaūge or alter any thyng of god And although we be not bounde alwaies to doe the thyng whiche is commaunded yet when we doe it we muste beware that we swarue not from the Lordes institucyon Nadab and Abihu went aboute to chaunge and alter some thynge in the ordinaunces and ceremonies that were commaunded of god and thei wer consumed with fyer Oza was punished wyth deathe for hys temerite and rashenesse And king Ozias because he wold haue againste gods cōmaundemēt offered incense was smytten with leprosie Why doth not the example of their sacrificinge Pryestes moue them which are so affrayed to say their masses
wythout either stole or phanell or to omytte any crossing or such lyke smal tryfles which neuerthelesse are nothynge els but mere inuencions of men abominable vanites Why doe we not rather take hede that we omit none of those thynges that God hath commaunded and his sonne Iesus Chryste instituted The very heathen theyr selues wer greatly affraied that the Pryest should in theyr holye ceremonies eyther stacker or faile in one worde and if any suche thing had happened they counted it to be an exceadyng greate faute and in a maner irremissible And ye thinke it to bee nothynge to breake the Lords institucion Prieste Hath not the churche of Chryst much greater liberte than the Synagoge had Therfore we may much better chaunge and alter thyngs in the ceremonyes thā the auncient fathers myghte For we are not as bonde seruauntes vnder the lawe but as free men vnder grace Whyche thynge appeareth to be moste true by thys that the churche at thys presente doeth not dyppe them ouer the eares y t are baptysed as thys worde baptizei doeth signifie but ouer sprinkleth them onely or washeth them And yet it is not to bee doubted but that they whyche bee so ouer sprynkled or washed are truly baptysed For Ciprian beeynge asked counsell whether they that were baptized when they wer drawing to their death oughte to be taken for true baptized Chrystians For they lying in theyr beddes beeing oppressed with sickenesse cold nether be dipped ouer the eares nor washed but onely ouer sprīkled wherefore they mighte seme not to haue been baptized this mā of god did aunswere that thei had receaued their ful baptisme More ouer haue not the wordes of baptizme ben other whyles chaūged For we reade in the Actes of the Apostles that baptizme was ministred in the name of our Lorde Iesu Chryst whereas notwithstanding the Lorde in the gospell commaunded hys disciples to baptize in the name of the father of y e sōne and of the holi gost Finally what say ye of the order y t Chryste hath prescribed Is it obserued kept Did not Christ cōmaunde to teach first than to baptize But nowe we doe baptize first the infantes and afterwardes teache thē when thei be of age And shal we sai now that the churche dooeth amisse in al these thynges God forbidde Prentise As touching your firste argument master person wherein ye say that we haue more libertie than the Israelites had and that therefore it is lawefull for vs to chaunge and alter thinges in ceremonyes which liberte the childrē of Israell had not I answer to y t the Chrystyan lybertye dooeth not consiste in thys that we maye chaunge and alter the institucion of Chryste but it lyeth and consisteth in thys that Chryste hath broughte and reduced many laboreus payneful and darke ceremonies into fewe that are easye and playne Besides that we are by the power of the spirite made wyllynge and ready to obeye for we are not compelled by the law but do most willingly whatsoeuer gods word doeth commaunde vs in his true religion Therefore they can not conclude that that they woulde but rather are driuen to the contrary for if we be so deliuered frō the yoke and heauy burden of y e lawe that we haue only fewe easye and playne ceremonyes it wer a thyng intollerable and much blame worthy if we would not fulfyll perfourme thē without any grudging or murmuring or if we would alter any thyng in them seyng they be so fewe so easye and so playne Pryest Yet ye haue not aunswered to that whiche I brought against you touching the chaunge and alteracion that is in baptisme Prētise I knowledge and confesse that y e auncyente fathers when they could by the age or health of the persons dipped them ouer eares and head in the water which dipping was prefigurated and shadowed by the goinge of the children of Israel through the reade sea yet it is neither necessarie nor hath any expresse commaundement in y e worde of god When it is vsed it hath a goodly significacion For when we are dipped in therby it is signified y t we dye with Christ and by the cōmyng out of the water we are admonyshed that we rise with him vnto euerlasting life Howebeit as we haue sayd this signification is not necessarie I meane so necessary but that it may be omitted for the true property and nature of baptisme is our clensing from our sinnes Wherfore S. Paul in the Epistle to the Ephesians writeth that Chryst hath cleansed his congregation and churche with the lauer of water through the worde This purginge or clensinge from synne is moste properly signified and represēted by baptisme whether we be dipped in or ouer sprinkeled or by any meane at all washed in the water Nor this word baptize in doth not onely signifie to be dipped in but also to be washed by any maner of meane moreouer it is not al one to chaunge the maner of washing and to take all the whole awaye For in them that are ouer sprīkled or washed the element of baptisme that is to soye the water is kept and vsed and hath his signification We doe not contende supersticiously how we must drynke of the cup whether we muste drinke litel or muche so that both partes of the sacrament doe remayne hole it is inough In tymes passed they vsed to drinke of the mistical cuppe wyth quilles whych thynge the byshop of Rōe doth yet vse at thys present tyme some were wonte to dip their bread into the mistical wyne as it is written in the Ecclesiastycall historye of Eusebius But I would wyshe al thynges to be do that are moste consonaunte and agreable to the instituciō of Christ. Pryeste But what saye ye of the worde whych the Apostles haue chaunged in baptysme vsyng not that prescribed fourme that was appoynted then by Chryste in the gospell Prentyse Some there be that graunt that the wordes were altered and chaunged but that the fourme and maner that the Apostels did vse was all one with y t ▪ that Chryste had prescribed them in his gospel For say they in the name of Iesu Christ ar the names of the three diuine persons comprehended that is to saye of the father of the sonne and of the holy gost And Ireneus in hys 4. booke cōtra valētinianos doeth plainely testifie and witnesse the same saying in the name of Chryst the thre persons are vnderstanded for this worde Chryst dooeth signifie annoynted wherein is shewed both he that annoynteth he that is annoynted and the vnction it selfe he that is annoynted is the sonne he that annoynteth is the father the vnctiō is the holi goste Wherby it appeareth that in thys alteracion nothing at al is taken awaye Pryest So may we right wel say that in this alteracion which is so sore impugned spokē agaynst in this sacramēt nothīg
dutye that we owe to our neighboure or Chrysten brother yea in thynges that seme most vile whyche thynge Chryste dyd for our example performe and fullfill The washing of the fete was a thing much vsed amōg the Iewes For in suche hotte contryes as Iury is when menne did trauayll on foote their bodies were much wearyed with heate therefore the washing of their fete when they were weari and ful of dust was no smal refreshing vnto them specially seing that in those contreyes menne were not so well shod as they are wyth vs. Els how could Chryste haue had his fete washed by the synnefull woman and wiped wyth her heares excepte he had had hys fete bare or so shod that his shoes might easely be pulled of And y t y e washing of the fete in the scripturs doth signifie any base seruice that maye be done to our neyghbour Abigael doeth testifie and witnes for when Dauid woulde haue maryed her she answered thy hande-mayde is readye to wash my lords feete and the feete of my Lordes seruauntes As though she shoulde sayed I thynke not my selfe worthye of so high honor I am rather moste ready to doe any kynde of seruyce semeth it neuer so base to mi lords seruauntes And S. Paul in his firste Epistle to Timothee when he speaketh of y e widowe that shoulde be chosen of the churche he willeth that she shoulde be such an one as is ful of good workes and hath washed the Sainctes fete Where doubtlesse S. Paul by the washyng of y e fete doeth vnderstande al maner of charitable seruice that ought to be dō to the men of God Also Chryste saith in his holy gospel when thou dost fast annoynt thy head Wherof it doth not folow y t we oughte to annoint our heades whēsoeuer we faste but because y t in Siria or Arabia y e happy they vsed much to annoint thēselfs whē thei wold be mery except whē they were in sōe heauines christ meneth y t in priuat fastīgs we shold not by omitting y e accustomable trimming of our bodyes hunte after vayne glorye or vayne prayse of the worlde But now seeinge there is no suche vse of anoynting among vs we ar not bounde in our fastyng to anoynte our selues Whyche same selfe thing must be vnderstanded of the washynge of the fete whyche ye doe so stoutly obiecte vnto vs. Agayne it cannot be called a sacrament although it signifieth and representeth in or by the elemente many Godly thynges as I haue shewed already and hath a commaundement annexed vnto it For there bee no expresse or particular wordes geuen that shoulde be added to y e element that therof might be made a sacramente or whereby a promyse of some particular gifte or grace to be obteyned is signified and betokened Finally neyther Chryst nor his Apostles dyd commaunde that the communicātes should wash eche others fete And Augustyne in a certayne Epistel ad Ianuariū doeth playnly write that certaine churches did remoue and put awaye thys ceremony leaste it should bee taken for parte of the sacrament or for baptysme and that some agayne dyd kepe stil the same Pryest Why wil ye haue the Apostles and the laye people to be of lyke dignite Were not the Apostles made priestes by our sauioure Chryst Therefore the church hath by good ryght made an other law for the communion of the laye people Prentise We knowe nothynge of thys kynde of priesthode ther is not one iote or syllable in the scriptures that the Apostles were made priestes The scriptures of y e new testament vse no such names Yf they were pryestes they wer so eyther after the order of Melchisedech thē must they haue ben priestes for euer or after the order of Aarō then must they haue offered bloody sacrifices as lambes calues bullockes and hefkers or els after the order of Baal as thei be all that robbing the Chrystyan congregation of that most worthy name geuen in the scriptures to all christians doe chalenge it to them selues alone But let them by the priestes vnderstand the ministers of y e church Priest So they doe I warraunte you Prentyse Nowe then tell me master person why do ye minister the sacramente vnder one kynd only vnto your priestes when they sayinge not masse theyr selues chaunce to come to the communyō sith that Chryste did minister vnder both kindes to the Apostles geuyng them no lesse than he tooke for hymselfe Agayne if Chryste dyd only geue the sacramente to pryestes as they call them why dare ye then geue parte to the laye and commen people sythe Chryst dyd not communicate with them Besydes thys there wer no wemen at the communion wyth Chryste excepte ye wyll haue thē to be priestes also Why dooe ye then geue the sacramente vnto them sythe that CHRISTE dyd geue it only to menne But ye that reason so substanciallye of the sacramente or communyon of Chryste kepte wyth hys Apostles what shal ye aunswere to the Apostle Paule who wrytynge to the vnyuersall churche of Corinthus commaundeth both kindes to be geuen not to the ministers onely but to the whole people Pryest Ye can not denye but that there is mencyon made of the communion of the lay people in the decrees canons and ecclesiasticall historyes Prentyse I graunt that but ye are greatlye deceaued if by the Communion of the laye people ye doe vnderstand the receauing vnder one kinde for there both kyndes were geuen On lye it was called the communyon of the laye people because that sōe of the clergye beyng through their own faute fallen from theyr ministrie and offyce dyd no more communicate among the clergye or ministers but among the laie and cōmon people Priest The more I trow I reason with you the worse I shal find you Did not Christe I pray you minister the sacrament vnder one kinde to his disciples whē he wēte to Emaus For there as it is sayed they knewe him by the breakyng of bread Therfore ye doe not well that of one only action of Chryst goe aboute to establyshe a doctrine and make a commaundement Besides that al the whole church is on our side which holi mother the church being moued with many causes did ordaine that the sacramente should be ministred vnto the laye people vnder one kynde The first cause whiche moued our mother the holy churche to minister the sacrament vnder one kīd is lest if the cup should be generally ministred any sh̄ould be shed or spilled The seconde is thys if 〈◊〉 should be reserued for the 〈…〉 the bread is it would waxe sowre and not bee able to be drunken Thirdly there be many that canne not away with drinking of wyne therefore seeyng that they can take but one parte if both were so necessarye as ye saye they woulde thinke that thei hadde not communicated truly nor receaued the whole sacrament
Laste of all the ministers must haue some what more priuiledge than the commen sorte of the people I trust yong man ye haue marked these thynges well Prentyse Truly master person I haue marked them wel and I trust ye shal say no lesse by that tyme ye haue heard myne answer As for the first argument that ye haue brought saying that Chryste hath some tymes ministred vnder one kynd because we read in Luk that his disciples knewe him by y e breakyng of bread that verelye is to weake yea and verye foolyshe also For ye shal neuer be able to shewe that the breakynge of bread doeth in that place signifie the holy communion syth that the same maner of speakyng is in y e holy scriptures applyed verye often tymes to the commaundementes And it is no meruail that those disciples knew him by breakyng of bread or by takyng of commen meate For syth y t Christ as we maye Godly beleue of hym hadde certayne peculyare thankes geuinge and prayers he myght easely be knowē But graūt that Chryst did then at that tyme geue one parte of the Sacramente onely shall it be lawfull for vs to dooe it therefore He dyd not by y e same one onelye doinge abrogate or abolyshe the generall commaundement that he gaue at his supper and afterwardes was confyrmed by the writinges of the Euangelystes and of Paul God did once commaunde Abraham to sacrifice his sonne yet he did not by that abolyshe this generall commaundenlente of hys thou shalt not kyl He did also commaunde once the Israelites to carye awaye the goods of the Egipcians howbeit he wil haue neuerthelesse this hys commaundemente to stande styll Thou shalt not steal Moreouer by the breakynge of the breade the whole supper may be vnderstāded by a figure which is called Synecdoche And wheras ye blame vs beecause as ye report of vs we do of one onely action or doing of Christ make a generall doctryne and commaundement ye are blame worthi your selues for thys dede or facte of Chryst was not vulgare or cōmen but hath an expresse commaūdemente ioyned and annexed to it whyche was afterwardes confyrmed and established by Paul And doe we not besydes all thys work moste surely when we seke to the head spring and former instituciō Pryest Well the churche is on our syde whych thing ye can not deny and Credendum est magis soli marie veraci quam Iude orū turbaī fallaci That is to saye the holye churche alone is more to be beeleued then a sort of false heretykes although they were thousandes together Prentise Well to the purpose master person I canne not thynke but wheras ye say that the catholike churche is on youre syde and deth wyth you that is playne fals For al the Greke churche and the whole east parte of the worlde w t al the whole auncientie is against you in thys pointe for thys shamefull and most blasphemous mutylation or cutting of the one part of the sacrament is a birde of yesterdayes hatchyng Thomas de Aquino now being one of the latter schoolemen saith playnly that it beganne to be vsed about hys tyme in certayne churches truly master persō me thinke this is a madde way that ye doe vse When we flee to the scriptures by and by ye say that they are obscure and darke and so appeall to the fathers who ye saye doe all stande on your syde ye runne to the antiquitie of tyme wherby ye goe aboute to mocke awaye al the testimonyes and autorytes of the scriptures But howe stedfaste ye be it shal easely be seen in this disputacion wher the scripture is plain all the fathers stande with vs and all the whole antiquite consenteth wyth the scriptures Therefore thys your study and loue that ye haue to resist or speak agaynst vs commeth only of thys that ye are sworne and addicted to the Popes lawes wherby it commeth to passe y t ye set not a strawe neyther by the trueth nor by the scriptures nor by the fathers nor yet by antiquite Pryeste If there were none other thyng yet the causes wherby the churche was moued to make thys Godlye ordeynaūce ought to suffice vs. Prētise The first cause so farre as I do remember is leaste the cuppe should be shed if it shoulde bee ministred uniuersally to all men Here dooe I muse and greatly meruel at Ireneus Basilius Ambrose Naziāzene and Augustyne which being such wise and prudēt fathers did not see these perylles in the sacrament or if they dyd se them they dyd not so much esteme them that they woulde therefore violate the sacramentes whyche neuerthelesse they ministred very often For these blasphemous priuat masses were not yet then vsed They did alwayes communicate in the misteries wyth the other y e people comming to the communiō much more often than they do now a dayes They did not passe so muche if part of the mistical cuppe dyd perchaunce fall on the grounde In Ciprianus tyme a maide did spue out of the misticall wyne Thys was the greatest care that the holy fathers tooke that they myghte minister the sacrament to worthye persons But ye laboure not to put awaye from it dogges and swyne by whom much greater iniurye is done to the bloud of Chryste than if some droppes of it shoulde bee spilled on the grounde therefore I would counsayll the ministers if at lest I were worthy to geue coūsel to take good hede that none be spilled and if any chaunceth to be spilled let them bee sory therfore and yet it ought not to be exaggerated as though it were a thynge irremissible Sainct Augustine writeth that as we must take hede that no parte of the sacrament fall down on the grounde ▪ so must both the minister and also the hearers beware that no worde be spoken in vayne or escape wythout profyte And yet notwythstandyng although many tymes the worde is negligentlye heard and vnfrutefully receaued sermons muste not be kept awaye from the people Priest But how could the misticall wine be kept from sowryng if it were reserued for the sicke Prētise I aunswere that youre owne supersticion onely doeth breede y e same peryll Who compelleth you to kepe or reserue the sacrament Who hath geuen you that commaundement Priest We must geue it to the sick Prentyse I graunte it but maye not the consecracion be dōe before the sicke Pryest But the sicke persons can not alwayes tary so long Ther be many ceremōies ye know Prentyse And this doth also come of youre superstition and not of Chrystes commaundement That whych Chryst commaunded maye easely be done in a short time and wyth very fewe wordes Gregory in his Epistles testifieth and witnesseth that the Apostles dyd only vse the lordes prayer at the consecracyon but ye affirme and hold opinion that the sacrament can not be made but onely in your Masse Therfore these impedimentes and lettes that ye alleage