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word_n church_n true_a visible_a 12,702 5 9.3716 5 true
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ID Title Author Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication) STC Words Pages
B13489 An ansvver to the ten counter demands propounded by T. Drakes, Preacher of the Word at H. and D. in the county of Essex. By Will. Euring Euring, William. 1619 (1619) STC 10567; ESTC S114521 22,154 48

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do_v daily_o etc._n etc._n answer_n this_o be_v the_o sum_n or_o ground_n of_o your_o first_o demand_v other_o word_n there_o be_v here_o and_o there_o drop_v from_o your_o pen_n which_o give_v no_o strength_n at_o all_o to_o your_o demand_n &_o therefore_o i_o pass_v they_o by_o and_o answer_n yea_o though_o this_o be_v true_a that_o you_o have_v say_v yet_o may_v our_o separation_n from_o your_o church_n or_o parish-assembly_n of_o england_n be_v please_v unto_o god_n and_o for_o proof_n hereof_o consider_v what_o follow_v this_o your_o demand_n be_v like_a as_o if_o a_o cananite_n or_o philistim_n shall_v thus_o have_v demand_v of_o the_o israelite_n whether_o be_v it_o like_o that_o the_o war_n you_o hold_v against_o we_o can_v in_o any_o probability_n be_v please_v unto_o god_n see_v that_o they_o have_v have_v such_o unhappy_a success_n with_o so_o many_o dismal_a &_o fatal_a event_n
mighty_a reason_n a_o minore_fw-la ad_fw-la majus_fw-la which_o word_n indeed_o i_o understand_v not_o be_v this_o if_o say_v you_o our_o lord_n jesus_n his_o disciple_n and_o people_n do_v not_o separate_v from_o thire_n synagogue_n and_o assembly_n that_o be_v in_o faith_n and_o manner_n more_o defective_a than_o we_o be_v much_o less_o ought_v they_o to_o separate_v from_o our_o assemble_v wherein_o all_o the_o ground_n of_o christian_a religion_n be_v sound_o hold_v and_o profess_v you_o may_v have_v add_v and_o but_o few_o practice_n neither_o of_o priest_n nor_o people_n in_o who_o covetousness_n wrath_n envy_n and_o contention_n do_v daily_o abound_v many_o thousand_o neither_o know_v nor_o regard_v to_o know_v what_o true_a faith_n mean_v and_o for_o their_o manner_n which_o you_o will_v seem_v so_o much_o to_o commend_v let_v the_o manner_n even_o of_o that_o parish_n assembly_n wherein_o yourself_o do_v of_o late_a exercise_n your_o spiritual_a authority_n in_o vain_a as_o 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great_a multitud_n of_o people_n speak_v of_o math._n 14.13.14.15_o etc._n etc._n joh._n 6.5.10.11_o can_v with_o any_o reason_n be_v deny_v to_o be_v member_n of_o the_o visible_a church_n though_o yet_o want_v the_o pretend_a constitution_n of_o the_o separatist_n and_o albeit_o many_o of_o they_o you_o say_v be_v draw_v not_o by_o doctrine_n but_o by_o miracle_n report_n and_o with_o their_o desire_n to_o be_v feed_v etc._n etc._n 4_o answ_n to_o this_o your_o demand_n i_o answer_n direct_o yea_o they_o may_v with_o good_a reason_n ground_v on_o the_o word_n of_o god_n speak_v as_o you_o do_v of_o the_o multitude_n be_v deny_v to_o be_v member_n of_o any_o visible_a church_n and_o this_o do_v plain_o appear_v in_o the_o same_o 2_o chapter_n namely_o mat._n 14._o joh._n 6._o which_o may_v also_o be_v compare_v with_o other_o scripture_n to_o prove_v the_o same_o there_o be_v none_o of_o they_o member_n of_o the_o visible_a church_n of_o christ_n but_o those_o that_o do_v visible_o appear_v to_o be_v christ_n disciple_n but_o the_o multitude_n that_o follow_v he_o for_o their_o belly_n sake_n be_v not_o his_o disciple_n as_o the_o very_a word_n of_o the_o text_n do_v prove_v where_o a_o diffecence_n be_v put_v between_o the_o one_o and_o the_o other_o first_o look_v mat._n 14.19_o where_o it_o be_v say_v he_o cause_v the_o multitude_n to_o sit_v down_o and_o when_o he_o have_v bless_v &_o break_v he_o give_v it_o to_o the_o disciple_n &_o the_o disciple_n to_o the_o multitude_n and_o when_o they_o have_v all_o eat_v &_o be_v suffice_v he_o cause_v his_o disciple_n to_o enter_v into_o a_o ship_n while_o he_o send_v the_o multitude_n away_o mat._n 14.22.23_o mar._n 4.4_o if_o you_o say_v he_o teach_v they_o altogether_o it_o be_v true_a yet_o be_v it_o in_o parable_n and_o afterward_o he_o expound_v all_o thing_n to_o his_o disciple_n apart_o mar._n 4.10.11.34.35.36_o mat._n 13.10.11.13.14.15.36_o and_o thus_o it_o do_v plain_o appear_v that_o the_o multitude_n 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that_o those_o to_o who_o you_o sue_v for_o redress_v can_v not_o or_o will_v not_o give_v any_o more_o virtue_n power_n or_o efficacy_n to_o your_o ministry_n and_o office_n you_o take_v the_o best_a course_n as_o you_o think_v even_o to_o leave_v they_o in_o their_o idolatry_n and_o profane_v and_o come_v away_o from_o they_o for_o the_o which_o i_o will_v have_v you_o mind_n well_o and_o consider_v what_o the_o lord_n say_v zacha._n ●●_o 17_o sure_o sir_n see_v that_o you_o thus_o deem_v of_o thing_n by_o the_o effect_n you_o can_v not_o but_o think_v very_a hardly_o of_o yourself_o consider_v the_o small_a effect_n your_o ministry_n have_v wrought_v especial_o among_o your_o morris-dancer_n and_o yet_o for_o further_a answer_n to_o your_o demand_n consider_v sir_n we_o be_v a_o poor_a weak_a despise_a people_n here_o in_o england_n hate_v and_o persecute_v of_o all_o or_o the_o most_o part_n in_o the_o land_n and_o therefore_o if_o we_o have_v any_o meeting_n or_o come_v together_o 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confession_n do_v come_v to_o we_o the_o worse_a and_o base_a sort_n remain_v still_o with_o you_o and_o this_o much_o for_o answer_v to_o your_o second_o demand_n now_o to_o your_o three_o this_o your_o three_o demand_n be_v of_o another_o kind_n differ_v from_o the_o former_a for_o here_o you_o seem_v to_o leave_v your_o national_a church_n and_o parishassemble_v of_o england_n and_o make_v your_o demand_n only_o for_o your_o reform_a assembly_n wherein_o you_o say_v the_o gospel_n be_v sincere_o preach_v and_o profess_v and_o the_o sacrament_n due_o administer_v etc._n etc._n but_o of_o this_o particular_a you_o shall_v have_v answer_n when_o i_o come_v to_o your_o 7_o and_o 8_o demand_n 3._o demand_v your_o demand_n be_v here_o to_o know_v whether_o those_o reform_a assembly_n whereof_o you_o speak_v be_v worse_o than_o the_o jew_n synagogue_n and_o your_o minister_n worse_o than_o the_o scribe_n and_o pharise_n which_o sit_v in_o moses_n chayer_n who_o christ_n command_v the_o people_n to_o hear_v etc._n etc._n 3_o answ_n your_o demand_n then_o be_v only_o in_o desence_n of_o your_o reform_a assembly_n it_o have_v be_v well_o if_o you_o have_v show_v we_o where_o and_o which_o those_o assembly_n be_v that_o be_v reform_v we_o know_v indeed_o that_o many_o among_o you_o both_o minister_n and_o people_n have_v make_v much_o suit_n to_o parliament_n and_o write_v many_o book_n of_o which_o i_o have_v read_v some_o for_o reformation_n of_o your_o church_n and_o ministry_n but_o still_o to_o the_o best_a of_o our_o discern_a all_o your_o parish_n assembly_n be_v as_o before_o under_o one_o and_o the_o same_o order_n and_o manner_n of_o worship_n ministry_n and_o confusion_n of_o people_n all_o govern_v by_o the_o fame_n spiritual_a law_n &_o spiritual_a lord_n their_o spiritual_a court_n and_o canon_n all_o be_v still_o one_o church_n all_o one_o communion_n and_o fellowship_n so_o that_o your_o demand_n be_v only_o for_o your_o reform_a assembly_n and_o yet_o you_o tell_v we_o not_o which_o nor_o where_o they_o be_v how_o can_v we_o give_v you_o a_o direct_a answer_n to_o your_o demand_n first_o therefore_o tell_v we_o where_o and_o which_o those_o assemble_v be_v that_o be_v reform_v &_o then_o you_o shall_v have_v a_o direct_a answer_n god_n willing_a in_o the_o mean_a time_n we_o will_v take_v this_o for_o one_o advantage_n among_o the_o rest_n that_o be_v that_o there_o appear_v a_o check_n in_o your_o conscience_n because_o you_o make_v your_o defence_n or_o demand_v but_o for_o a_o part_n of_o your_o church_n that_o be_v your_o reform_a assembly_n whereby_o you_o intimate_v that_o there_o be_v a_o worse_a sort_n of_o assembly_n that_o be_v unreform_v which_o you_o will_v not_o plead_v for_o where_o as_o if_o your_o church_n or_o church-assembly_n of_o england_n be_v christ_n true_a church_n we_o think_v you_o shall_v have_v labour_v to_o defend_v the_o whole_a be_v not_o every_o one_o of_o christ_n true_a church_n to_o be_v defend_v how_o deceitful_o then_o do_v you_o deal_v with_o your_o church_n that_o seek_v to_o uphould_v your_o reform_a assemble_v and_o neglect_v the_o rest_n all_o be_v in_o one_o brotherhood_n and_o communion_n together_o but_o it_o may_v be_v sir_n you_o be_v drive_v to_o shift_v for_o yourself_o therefore_o if_o you_o will_v show_v we_o which_o be_v your_o reform_a assembiles_fw-la we_o will_v show_v you_o great_a difference_n between_v those_o synagogue_n of_o the_o jew_n where_o christ_n and_o his_o disciple_n do_v teach_v and_o your_o parish_n assembly_n great_a difference_n between_o those_o that_o sit_v in_o moses_n chair_n which_o be_v in_o true_a office_n under_o moses_n according_a to_o the_o la_o and_o you_o with_o the_o rest_n that_o have_v no_o true_a office_n under_o christ_n according_a to_o the_o gospel_n your_o
gala._n 6.1_o 2._o with_o many_o other_o which_o i_o omit_v the_o material_a temple_n which_o be_v but_o a_o type_n of_o this_o we_o read_v to_o be_v build_v from_o the_o very_a foundation_n of_o choice_n costly_a perfect_a stone_n the_o beam_n and_o rafter_n of_o choice_n ceader_n algummim_a tree_n 1._o king_n 5.17_o chap._n 6.7_o 2._o chro._n 2.8_o ezra_n 3.7.12_o etc._n etc._n but_o of_o the_o incomparable_a beauty_n and_o unutterable_a excellency_n of_o this_o spiritual_a temple_n under_o the_o holy_a ministry_n &_o happy_a government_n of_o christ_n it_o must_v be_v such_o as_o none_o may_v grow_v nor_o be_v plant_v there_o until_o they_o be_v first_o cut_v off_o from_o their_o corrupt_a natural_a stock_n where_o they_o grow_v before_o and_o then_o be_v graft_v into_o the_o true_a olive_n tree_n the_o true_a vine_n yea_o and_o be_v plant_v and_o ingraft_v that_o plant_n that_o branch_n that_o bring_v not_o forth_o good_a fruit_n but_o bring_v forth_o evil_a fruit_n apparent_o see_v and_o know_v must_v be_v cut_v of_o and_o cast_v out_o rom._n 11.17.18.19.20.21_o 1._o cor._n 6.11_o tit._n 3.3_o etc._n etc._n rom._n 6.4.5.6_o etc._n etc._n math._n 3.10_o and_o 7.19_o and_o 15.13_o luk._n 13.6_o joh._n 15.6_o math._n 18.15.16.17_o rom._n 16.17.18_o 1._o cor._n 5.11.12.13_o now_o show_v we_o your_o church_n to_o be_v thus_o build_v and_o thus_o order_v according_a to_o the_o testament_n of_o christ_n i_o do_v not_o mean_v thus_o build_v in_o perfect_a manner_n but_o that_o every_o member_n of_o your_o church_n in_o the_o plate_n thereof_o do_v in_o the_o best_a of_o man_n discern_v according_a to_o godly_a judgement_n in_o his_o or_o their_o measure_n hew_v fit_v and_o square_v for_o the_o building_n before_o ●e_v be_v fasten_v there_o into_o for_o as_o the_o apostle_n say_v we_o which_o live_v must_v no_o more_o live_v unto_o ourselves_o but_o unto_o the_o will_n of_o he_o that_o die_v for_o we_o and_o rise_v again_o ephe._n 4.22.23.24_o 2_o cor._n 5.15.17_o 1_o pet._n 4.3_o we_o must_v be_v new_a creature_n for_o we_o be_v the_o workmanship_n of_o god_n create_v anew_o into_o christ_n jesus_n unto_o good_a work_n which_o god_n have_v ordain_v that_o we_o shall_v walk_v in_o they_o ephe._n 2.10_o when_o you_o have_v prove_v and_o show_v we_o your_o church_n thus_o frame_v fashion_a and_o order_v than_o we_o will_v take_v a_o view_n of_o those_o thing_n which_o you_o say_v but_o you_o prove_v not_o to_o be_v therein_o so_o sound_a and_o substantial_o teach_v and_o administer_v but_o if_o you_o still_o boast_v of_o those_o good_a thing_n in_o your_o church_n and_o yet_o your_o church_n itself_o be_v build_v of_o rough_a tree_n or_o rot_a timber_n hay_n and_o stubble_n or_o of_o the_o thorn_n and_o brier_n of_o the_o wilderness_n and_o with_o such_o dead_a or_o hard_a stone_n as_o can_v be_v hew_v and_o square_v and_o fasten_v into_o the_o build_n together_o according_a to_o the_o heavenly_a prtterne_n then_o be_v your_o church_n a_o false_a church_n and_o deceitful_a notwithstanding_o all_o your_o sound_n and_o substantial_a thing_n therein_o which_o thing_n although_o they_o be_v indeed_o both_o sound_n and_o substantial_a of_o themselves_o yet_o will_v they_o not_o keep_v up_o your_o totter_a building_n but_o in_o time_n it_o will_v fall_v and_o come_v to_o naught_o and_o this_o at_o this_o time_n shall_v serve_v for_o answer_v to_o your_o 7_o and_o 8_o demand_n only_o thus_o much_o more_o because_o i_o will_v not_o have_v you_o any_o more_o boast_v or_o go_v about_o to_o dazzle_v our_o eye_n with_o the_o sight_n of_o those_o thing_n which_o you_o say_v be_v in_o your_o church_n until_o you_o have_v show_v we_o the_o true_a form_n and_o fashion_n of_o the_o build_n of_o your_o church_n i_o will_v demand_v of_o you_o this_o one_o question_n when_o the_o prophet_n haggai_n chap._n 1._o reprove_v the_o jew_n for_o that_o god_n house_n be_v not_o build_v among_o they_o will_v it_o have_v be_v a_o sufficient_a answer_n for_o they_o think_v you_o sir_n to_o have_v say_v to_o the_o prophet_n thus_o we_o have_v costly_a and_o fair_a sound_a and_o substantial_a ceiling_n of_o the_o sweet_a and_o pure_a wood_n costly_a carve_v and_o curious_o wrought_v with_o many_o goodly_a and_o rich_a hang_n cushing_n carpet_n and_o curtain_n with_o so_o many_o other_o costly_a and_o sumptuous_a ornament_n and_o decking_n yea_o all_o whatsoever_o according_a to_o the_o appointment_n of_o the_o law_n for_o god_n house_n as_o for_o the_o proportion_n no_o country_n in_o the_o world_n can_v afford_v the_o like_a nay_o sir_n admit_v they_o shall_v also_o have_v say_v thus_o and_o behold_v also_o we_o have_v the_o foundation_n lay_v and_o we_o have_v many_o expert_a and_o excellent_a builder_n all_o of_o they_o sound_n and_o learned_a workman_n and_o for_o instrument_n also_o to_o hew_v and_o square_v the_o timber_n and_o stone_n we_o have_v so_o good_a as_o none_o can_v be_v better_o of_o which_o timber_n and_o stone_n also_o we_o have_v so_o great_a plenty_n and_o so_o excellent_a good_a with_o all_o other_o thing_n necessary_a to_o finish_v the_o building_n as_o for_o proportion_n no_o country_n in_o the_o world_n can_v afford_v the_o like_a therefore_o although_o the_o stone_n be_v neither_o lay_v nor_o square_v nor_o the_o timber_n hew_v fit_v nor_o frame_v yet_o have_v we_o the_o house_n of_o god_n well_o build_v what_o think_v you_o sir_n will_v this_o have_v be_v a_o sufficient_a answer_n to_o have_v satisfy_v the_o prophet_n if_o no_o consider_v then_o how_o little_a your_o vain_a boast_n will_v stand_v you_o in_o stead_n in_o the_o day_n of_o your_o appear_v search_v the_o scripture_n and_o you_o shall_v find_v there_o that_o every_o true_a visible_a church_n of_o christ_n must_v consist_v of_o a_o company_n of_o people_n be_v they_o many_o or_o few_o that_o be_v call_v out_o and_o separate_v from_o the_o froward_a generation_n of_o the_o world_n by_o the_o gospel_n john_n 15.19_o 17.6.9.11.14_o etc._n etc._n act._n 2.40_o 2._o cor._n 6.15_o 16.17.18_o and_o join_v or_o build_v together_o into_o a_o holy_a communion_n and_o fellowship_n among_o themselves_o act._n 2.41.44_o ephe._n 2.13.19.20.22_o all_o of_o they_o be_v in_o their_o measure_n believer_n prick_v in_o their_o heart_n for_o their_o sin_n and_o now_o labour_v together_o to_o continue_v in_o the_o apostle_n doctrine_n act._n 2.27.42_o be_v thus_o couple_v and_o knit_v together_o they_o be_v call_v in_o the_o scripture_n the_o temple_n of_o god_n 1._o cor._n 3.16.17_o the_o habitation_n of_o god_n ephe._n 2.22_o the_o church_n of_o god_n 1._o cor_fw-la 1.2.2_o cor._n 11._o unto_o the_o which_o church_n he_o daily_o add_v those_o that_o he_o will_v save_v act._n 2.41.47_o they_o be_v then_o call_v saint_n rom._n 1.7_o 1._o cor._n 1.2_o they_o be_v call_v holy_a brother_n heb._n 3.1_o they_o be_v call_v the_o body_n of_o christ_n and_o member_n for_o their_o part_n of_o the_o whole_a build_n of_o god_n consider_v what_o be_v say_v etc._n etc._n 2._o tim._n 2.7_o etc._n etc._n 9_o demand_n and_o now_o to_o your_o counter-demand_a which_o be_v whether_o any_o new_a law_n can_v or_o aught_o to_o be_v make_v or_o enact_v or_o any_o further_a reformation_n make_v without_o the_o christian_n prince_n or_o magistrate_n consent_v etc._n etc._n 9_o answer_n i_o answer_v no._n and_o i_o further_o add_v that_o whatsoever_o subject_n of_o what_o degree_n or_o state_n soever_o they_o be_v that_o shall_v go_v about_o either_o to_o enact_v any_o new_a law_n in_o the_o king_n dominion_n or_o to_o reform_v the_o order_n and_o state_n of_o the_o kingdom_n contrary_a to_o that_o order_n which_o be_v already_o establish_v without_o the_o consent_n and_o lawful_a authority_n of_o the_o prince_n &_o magistrate_n he_o be_v by_o the_o word_n of_o god_n judge_v and_o condemn_v worthy_a of_o damnation_n rom._n 13.12_o 5.6_o rev._n 12.18.19_o and_o if_o for_o this_o his_o or_o their_o offence_n the_o prince_n and_o magistrate_n do_v put_v he_o or_o they_o to_o death_n as_o by_o their_o lawful_a authority_n they_o may_v it_o be_v no_o more_o than_o they_o have_v just_o and_o worthy_o deserve_v for_o their_o evil_a do_n the_o next_o word_n in_o this_o your_o 9_o demand_v be_v thus_o set_v down_o and_o thus_o odd_o point_v or_o ever_o in_o a_o well_o order_v church_n have_v be_v enact_v or_o make_v and_o whither_o they_o have_v do_v well_o to_o separate_v without_o the_o king_n majesty_n leave_n and_o licence_n and_o consent_n of_o the_o state_n these_o your_o refine_a word_n as_o they_o be_v in_o this_o fashion_n set_v down_o i_o do_v not_o well_o under_v and_o 2_o therefore_o i_o will_v give_v you_o no_o other_o answer_n than_o be_v already_o make_v in_o the_o former_a word_n desire_v that_o this_o which_o be_v here_o answer_v may_v be_v