change_v they_o appear_v to_o our_o sense_n as_o to_o their_o nature_n substance_n etc._n etc._n to_o be_v see_v and_o touch_v as_o before_o but_o be_v believe_v to_o be_v somewhat_o else_o i._n e._n what_o they_o be_v make_v and_o this_o belief_n be_v not_o chimerical_a or_o imaginary_a but_o the_o thing_n be_v real_o what_o they_o be_v believe_v to_o be_v and_o for_o that_o they_o be_v so_o be_v adore_v so_o that_o they_o must_v be_v real_o change_v into_o christ_n body_n for_o else_o they_o can_v not_o be_v adore_v without_o idolatry_n the_o very_a word_n as_o they_o lay_v convince_v the_o magdeburgenses_n that_o theodoret_n hold_v transubstantiation_n and_o i_o suppose_v have_v not_o these_o two_o word_n nature_n and_o substance_n be_v in_o the_o quotation_n but_o only_a figure_n and_o form_n we_o have_v never_o hear_v of_o it_o at_o this_o time_n if_o therefore_o i_o show_v you_o that_o nature_n and_o substance_n be_v frequent_o take_v to_o signify_v that_o which_o be_v as_o consistent_a with_o our_o exposition_n and_o the_o catholic_a meaning_n of_o theodoret_n as_o figure_n and_o form_n in_o this_o place_n be_v i_o shall_v not_o only_o make_v it_o cease_v to_o be_v clear_a against_o we_o but_o also_o show_v that_o it_o will_v be_v clear_a for_o we_o nature_n and_o substance_n do_v sometime_o signify_v what_o the_o philosopher_n call_v proper_o substance_n as_o distinguish_v from_o accident_n i._n e._n matter_n and_o form._n and_o thus_o take_v it_o can_v be_v no_o object_n of_o sense_n can_v neither_o be_v see_v nor_o touch_v sometime_o it_o signify_v the_o property_n natural_a quality_n and_o accident_n with_o which_o those_o substance_n be_v clothe_v physician_n frequent_o say_v that_o they_o have_v the_o substance_n of_o herb_n in_o their_o medicine_n when_o they_o have_v only_o the_o virtue_n of_o those_o herb_n and_o not_o all_o the_o matter_n and_o form_n so_o we_o say_v of_o meat_n that_o it_o have_v but_o little_a juice_n or_o substance_n when_o it_o have_v but_o little_a virtue_n or_o good_a natural_a quality_n the_o father_n say_v that_o the_o substance_n of_o man_n be_v deprave_v by_o original_a sin_n i._n e._n the_o inclination_n and_o natural_a affection_n st._n paul_n say_v that_o by_o nature_n we_o be_v the_o child_n of_o wrath_n that_o the_o gentile_n by_o nature_n perform_v the_o law_n in_o all_o which_o speech_n and_o a_o hundred_o other_o nature_n and_o substance_n do_v not_o signify_v strict_o as_o philosopher_n use_v those_o word_n when_o they_o be_v oppose_v to_o accident_n but_o popular_o and_o vulgar_o and_o signify_v no_o more_o than_o property_n condition_n quality_n etc._n etc._n now_o suppose_v theodoret_n to_o take_v substance_n and_o nature_n in_o this_o place_n in_o the_o latter_a sense_n and_o to_o mean_v by_o they_o no_o more_o than_o the_o exterior_a substance_n or_o visible_a and_o sensible_a quality_n of_o bread_n and_o wine_n the_o text_n be_v evident_o for_o we_o and_o that_o the_o father_n must_v take_v the_o word_n in_o this_o popular_a sense_n be_v evident_a from_o the_o whole_a discourse_n for_o he_o say_v first_o that_o before_o consecration_n they_o be_v one_o thing_n and_o after_o consecration_n they_o be_v change_v and_o make_v another_o thing_n now_o if_o they_o be_v change_v and_o make_v another_o thing_n the_o change_n must_v be_v either_o in_o the_o interior_n or_o exterior_a substance_n but_o it_o be_v most_o plain_a they_o be_v not_o change_v in_o the_o exterior_a substance_n for_o as_o to_o that_o they_o remain_v visible_o the_o same_o and_o do_v not_o recede_v from_o their_o nature_n as_o sense_n assure_v we_o ergo_fw-la it_o must_v be_v in_o their_o interior_n substance_n which_o be_v not_o liable_a to_o sense_n and_o therefore_o as_o the_o father_n in_o this_o very_a place_n say_v they_o be_v see_v and_o touch_v as_o before_o but_o be_v believe_v to_o be_v another_o thing_n i._n e._n what_o they_o be_v make_v and_o be_v adore_v as_o be_v what_o they_o be_v believe_v the_o doctor_n have_v tell_v you_o in_o the_o late_a book_n i_o mention_v the_o danger_n of_o adore_v any_o thing_n but_o god_n therefore_o according_a to_o he_o this_o father_n must_v hold_v these_o symbol_n he_o here_o speak_v of_o to_o be_v change_v into_o the_o body_n of_o our_o lord_n before_o they_o become_v the_o object_n of_o adoration_n or_o else_o he_o must_v be_v guilty_a of_o idolatry_n in_o teach_v that_o something_o beside_o god_n ought_v to_o be_v adore_v i._n e._n worship_v with_o divine_a honor._n as_o to_o the_o place_n quote_v out_o of_o gelasius_n the_o same_o distinction_n above_o of_o the_o sense_n of_o the_o word_n nature_n and_o substance_n solve_v that_o and_o that_o there_o must_v be_v such_o a_o distinction_n in_o the_o word_n of_o this_o father_n be_v most_o evident_a for_o without_o that_o he_o contradict_v himself_o in_o the_o word_n quote_v for_o he_o have_v two_o word_n five_o time_n in_o ten_o line_n and_o if_o in_o all_o these_o place_n they_o must_v signify_v strict_o the_o father_n talk_v nonsense_n and_o so_o far_o enough_o from_o be_v a_o good_a authority_n to_o justify_v a_o separation_n but_o if_o the_o word_n must_v be_v take_v in_o divers_a sense_n and_o it_o not_o be_v evident_a which_o sense_n be_v applicable_a to_o this_o or_o that_o place_n than_o it_o be_v at_o least_o uncertain_a and_o dark_a and_o consequent_o not_o fit_a as_o not_o be_v so_o clear_a as_o it_o shall_v to_o justify_v a_o separation_n but_o if_o the_o place_n itself_o from_o its_o own_o term_n dispose_v we_o to_o apply_v the_o strict_a sense_n in_o this_o or_o that_o part_n and_o the_o popular_a sense_n in_o this_o or_o that_o other_o so_o as_o to_o countenance_v transubstantiation_n than_o this_o quotation_n will_v be_v very_o far_o from_o do_v they_o any_o service_n now_o let_v we_o consider_v the_o word_n he_o say_v by_o the_o sacrament_n we_o be_v make_v partaker_n of_o the_o divine_a nature_n yet_o the_o substance_n or_o nature_n of_o bread_n and_o wine_n do_v not_o cease_v to_o be_v if_o nature_n must_v be_v take_v strict_o and_o philosophical_o in_o both_o place_n than_o we_o be_v make_v partaker_n of_o the_o divine_a nature_n strict_o and_o philosophical_o and_o not_o only_o effectual_o or_o virtual_o then_o the_o divine_a nature_n must_v be_v actual_o there_o and_o yet_o the_o nature_n of_o bread_n and_o wine_n will_v not_o cease_v to_o be_v there_o so_o that_o this_o perhaps_o thus_o far_o may_v favour_v lutheranism_n but_o can_v no_o way_n help_v the_o church_n of_o england_n then_o follow_v these_o word_n and_o sure_o the_o image_n and_o similitude_n of_o the_o body_n and_o blood_n of_o christ_n be_v celebrate_v in_o the_o action_n of_o those_o mystery_n we_o do_v own_o this_o expression_n and_o do_v acknowledge_v it_o be_v frequent_a among_o the_o father_n to_o say_v that_o the_o bless_a sacrament_n be_v a_o figure_n of_o christ_n passion_n and_o that_o the_o exterior_a substance_n which_o we_o see_v be_v a_o figure_n to_o we_o of_o the_o interior_n substance_n of_o christ_n body_n and_o blood_n which_o we_o see_v not_o but_o be_v to_o believe_v to_o be_v contain_v under_o those_o species_n then_o he_o go_v on_o and_o say_v therefore_o it_o appear_v evident_o enough_o to_o we_o that_o that_o be_v to_o be_v understand_v by_o we_o in_o our_o lord_n christ_n himself_o which_o we_o profess_v in_o the_o image_n of_o he_o observe_v that_o image_n be_v here_o use_v as_o we_o say_v above_o we_o celebrate_v and_o take_v they_o and_o even_o as_o they_o pass_v into_o this_o to_o wit_n the_o divine_a substance_n by_o the_o power_n of_o the_o holy_a spirit_n remain_v notwithstanding_o in_o the_o property_n of_o their_o nature_n etc._n etc._n we_o speak_v to_o the_o signification_n of_o the_o word_n nature_n above_o speak_v to_o the_o forego_n word_n of_o this_o father_n now_o let_v we_o consider_v the_o word_n substance_n which_o the_o protestant_n must_v have_v to_o signify_v strict_o and_o philosophical_o in_o the_o word_n before_o or_o else_o this_o quotation_n prove_v nothing_o but_o that_o be_v suppose_v they_o must_v show_v we_o that_o it_o signify_v otherways_o in_o these_o last_o word_n they_o pass_v into_o the_o divine_a substance_n or_o else_o they_o must_v grant_v that_o it_o signify_v strict_o here_o also_o and_o than_o it_o be_v nonsense_n for_o it_o amount_v to_o thus_o much_o the_o element_n of_o bread_n and_o wine_n pass_v into_o the_o divine_a substance_n strict_o and_o philosophical_o and_o we_o be_v make_v partaker_n of_o the_o divine_a nature_n strict_o etc._n etc._n yet_o the_o substance_n and_o nature_n of_o bread_n and_o wine_n do_v not_o cease_v to_o be_v strict_o and_o philosophical_o can_v any_o body_n understand_v this_o what_o do_v pass_v into_o the_o divine_a substance_n nothing_o sure_a if_o the_o nature_n and_o
ten_o time_n great_a if_o there_o be_v any_o degree_n in_o miracle_n than_o this_o which_o you_o can_v believe_v for_o its_o difficulty_n viz._n transubstantiation_n especial_o when_o we_o can_v show_v in_o every_o age_n when_o any_o opposition_n be_v make_v to_o this_o doctrine_n who_o they_o be_v that_o do_v it_o and_o what_o become_v of_o they_o berengarius_fw-la be_v above_o a_o hundred_o year_n before_o the_o lateran_n council_n yet_o we_o can_v show_v that_o he_o be_v oppose_v by_o bishop_n and_o father_n of_o almost_o all_o country_n as_o by_o lanfranck_n of_o canterbury_n durandus_fw-la troaernensis_n guitmundus_n four_o bishop_n of_o rome_n and_o by_o the_o pastor_n of_o all_o country_n how_o he_o recant_v three_o time_n and_o how_o he_o die_v joannes_n scotus_n erigena_n who_o live_v about_o two_o hundred_o year_n before_o and_o have_v lay_v some_o ground_n for_o berengarius_fw-la his_o error_n be_v treat_v as_o a_o innovator_n by_o hincmarus_n and_o other_o himself_o force_v to_o retire_v out_o of_o france_n and_o his_o book_n not_o hear_v of_o again_o till_o two_o hundred_o year_n after_o and_o no_o man_n live_a can_v tell_v we_o when_o this_o absurd_a doctrine_n as_o the_o doctor_n call_v it_o which_o have_v have_v such_o success_n in_o the_o world_n as_o to_o obtain_v belief_n universal_o for_o several_a hundred_o year_n ever_o have_v any_o beginning_n or_o any_o considerable_a opposition_n for_o though_o the_o word_n transubstantiation_n be_v not_o common_o use_v before_o the_o council_n of_o lateran_n it_o matter_n not_o nor_o make_v any_o new_a belief_n since_o it_o have_v always_o be_v the_o constant_a practice_n of_o the_o church_n in_o the_o general_a council_n when_o it_o do_v condemn_v heretical_a opinion_n or_o decide_v any_o point_n in_o debate_n to_o expound_v the_o true_a sense_n of_o scripture_n upon_o that_o very_a point_n by_o some_o very_a significant_a word_n to_o leave_v no_o occasion_n of_o cavil_v or_o dispute_v upon_o its_o decision_n declare_v by_o a_o explicit_a act_n and_o positive_a definition_n what_o be_v the_o true_a sense_n of_o soripture_n and_o what_o implicit_o all_o the_o whole_a catholic_a church_n do_v believe_v before_o as_o it_o appear_v in_o several_a other_o council_n as_o in_o that_o of_o nice_a against_o the_o arian_n where_o the_o word_n consubstantial_a be_v find_v out_o to_o condemn_v their_o heresy_n they_o pretend_v that_o the_o son_n be_v 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d that_o be_v of_o like_a substance_n to_o the_o father_n when_o the_o council_n define_v he_o to_o be_v 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d i._n e._n of_o the_o same_o substance_n or_o consubstantial_a the_o same_o you_o may_v observe_v in_o the_o council_n of_o chalcedon_n where_o nestorius_n be_v condemn_v by_o the_o new_a distinction_n of_o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d and_o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d gent._n suppose_v sir_n that_o the_o roman_a doctrine_n in_o this_o point_n be_v false_a and_o their_o practice_n idolatry_n and_o yet_o both_o be_v universal_a for_o several_a age_n together_o which_o way_n can_v the_o church_n of_o england_n pretend_v to_o good_a and_o lawful_a ordination_n for_o they_o pretend_v to_o none_o but_o what_o they_o receive_v from_o idolater_n i._n e._n the_o church_n of_o rome_n dr._n very_o well_o for_o though_o they_o be_v idolater_n they_o may_v give_v good_a and_o lawful_a ordination_n for_o the_o very_a church_n of_o rome_n hold_v that_o mortal_a sin_n do_v not_o hinder_v a_o bishop_n or_o priest_n from_o execute_v his_o function_n cath._n all_o mortal_a sin_n may_v not_o hinder_v a_o bishop_n from_o execute_v his_o function_n or_o give_v good_a and_o lawful_a ordination_n yet_o some_o may_v for_o if_o a_o bishop_n shall_v become_v a_o jew_n and_o the_o same_o thing_n may_v be_v say_v if_o he_o become_v a_o idolater_n you_o sure_o will_v not_o allow_v he_o to_o give_v good_a and_o lawful_a christian_a ordination_n for_o that_o which_o destroy_v the_o essence_n of_o a_o church_n or_o a_o christian_a must_v needs_o disable_v those_o it_o fall_v upon_o from_o give_v legal_a commission_n at_o least_o to_o other_o to_o govern_v the_o church_n or_o to_o administer_v the_o sacrament_n of_o christ_n drs._n there_o be_v two_o sort_n of_o idolatry_n one_o of_o the_o heathen_n and_o another_o if_o you_o will_v have_v it_o of_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n cath._n we_o will_v have_v any_o thing_n that_o you_o will_v make_v evident_a but_o when_o you_o tell_v we_o of_o two_o sort_n of_o idolatry_n i_o hope_v you_o do_v not_o mean_v material_a and_o formal_a idolatry_n the_o first_o of_o which_o if_o pure_o such_o be_v no_o crime_n we_o speak_v all_o along_o of_o formal_a idolatry_n which_o you_o must_v accuse_v the_o church_n of_o rome_n of_o or_o else_o 〈◊〉_d nothing_o 〈◊〉_d if_o you_o do_v i_o pray_v show_v how_o the_o nature_n of_o formal_a 〈◊〉_d become_v change_v by_o its_o relation_n to_o heathen_n from_o what_o it_o be_v when_o it_o relate_v to_o a_o papist_n i_o doubt_v you_o mean_v by_o your_o two_o sort_n of_o idolatry_n idolatry_n which_o be_v idolatry_n and_o idolatry_n which_o be_v not_o idolatry_n like_o the_o honest_a preacher_n 〈◊〉_d talk_v of_o three_o sort_n of_o seeker_n one_o that_o seek_v and_o find_v another_o who_o seek_v and_o do_v not_o find_v and_o a_o three_o which_o neither_o seek_v nor_o find_v the_o first_o idolatry_n 〈◊〉_d belong_v to_o the_o heathen_n and_o the_o second_o the_o no_o idolatry_n to_o the_o papist_n and_o now_o we_o shall_v leave_v it_o to_o the_o judgement_n of_o this_o worthy_a company_n to_o consider_v how_o clear_a and_o evident_a you_o have_v make_v it_o that_o you_o have_v such_o just_a cause_n to_o separate_v from_o the_o whole_a church_n as_o to_o excuse_v you_o from_o formal_a or_o criminal_a schism_n finis_fw-la a_o relation_n of_o a_o conference_n apr._n 3._o 1676._o theod._n tom._n 2._o dial._n 2._o pag._n 236._o edit_fw-la colon._n 1617._o magd_a cent._n 5._o cap._n 4._o de_fw-la inclinatione_fw-la doct._n tit_n de_fw-fr coena_fw-la domini_fw-la ibid._n dial._n 2._o pag._n 234._o st._n cyp._n de_fw-fr câ—en_n domini_fw-la
the_o sum_n of_o a_o conference_n have_v between_o two_o divine_n of_o the_o church_n of_o england_n and_o two_o catholic_a lay-gentleman_n at_o the_o request_n and_o for_o the_o satisfaction_n of_o three_o person_n of_o quality_n august_n 8._o 1671._o publish_a with_o allowance_n london_n print_v by_o henry_n hill_n printer_n to_o the_o king_n be_v most_o excellent_a majesty_n for_o his_o household_n and_o chapel_n for_o he_o and_o matthew_n turner_n 1687._o the_o publisher_n to_o the_o reader_n since_o print_v of_o conference_n seem_v now_o in_o vogue_n i_o will_v venture_v to_o be_v in_o the_o new_a mode_n i_o have_v so_o good_a a_o example_n of_o it_o before_o i_o that_o i_o hope_v no_o body_n will_v take_v it_o ill_a if_o i_o follow_v it_o in_o the_o year_n 1676._o there_o happen_v a_o conference_n about_o point_n of_o religion_n between_o some_o protestant_a divine_n and_o some_o roman-catholic_a gentleman_n which_o after_o a_o long_a silence_n have_v be_v now_o late_o set_v out_o the_o 1676._o second_o time_n in_o a_o fine_a dress_n and_o with_o a_o long_a preface_n this_o give_v i_o the_o curiosity_n to_o seek_v further_o into_o those_o matter_n and_o meet_v accidental_o with_o a_o copy_n of_o another_o conference_n hold_v in_o 1671._o wherein_o some_o of_o the_o same_o person_n be_v concern_v i_o think_v good_a to_o present_v you_o with_o it_o by_o it_o be_v plain_a expression_n and_o unstudy_v discourse_n you_o may_v easy_o judge_v it_o to_o be_v the_o naked_a truth_n of_o what_o be_v then_o speak_v peruse_v it_o and_o think_v serious_o of_o it_o the_o sum_n of_o a_o conference_n have_v between_o two_o divine_n of_o the_o church_n of_o england_n and_o two_o catholic_a lay-gentleman_n at_o the_o request_n and_o for_o the_o satisfaction_n of_o three_o person_n of_o quality_n aug._n 8._o 1671._o the_o person_n for_o who_o the_o conference_n be_v intend_v desire_v the_o subject_n may_v be_v schism_n subject_a agree_v drs._n it_o be_v fit_a we_o presuppose_v some_o principle_n before_o we_o enter_v into_o dispute_n cath._n content_a dr._n 1._o schism_n be_v a_o wilful_a separation_n from_o the_o communion_n of_o the_o church_n without_o cause_n cath._n though_o we_o know_v very_o well_o there_o can_v be_v no_o cause_n of_o schism_n yet_o we_o will_v admit_v to_o come_v quick_o to_o the_o question_n your_o notion_n of_o schism_n with_o these_o word_n without_o cause_n in_o your_o definition_n of_o it_o dr._n 2._o another_o principle_n be_v man_n may_v without_o crime_n separate_v from_o a_o communion_n in_o which_o they_o can_v continue_v without_o sin._n cath._n agree_v dr._n 3._o there_o be_v certain_a law_n antecedent_n to_o communion_n by_o which_o every_o particular_a person_n ought_v to_o judge_v what_o communion_n he_o ought_v to_o be_v of_o or_o forsake_v cath._n we_o do_v admit_v that_o there_o be_v external_a motive_n antecedent_n to_o communion_n which_o do_v induce_v and_o oblige_v a_o particular_a person_n to_o 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