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ID Title Author Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication) STC Words Pages
A25573 An Answer to the Athenian Mercury, vol. 4, numb. 14, concerning infant-baptism with an account of divers queries sent by the author (and some others) to the Athenian Society, which they have not yet answered : to which are added, some remarks by way of reply to their Mercury on the same subject, num. 18, published Novemb. 28. 1691 (1691) Wing A3386; ESTC R15319 31,117 26

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a_o great_a body_n of_o godly_a people_n who_o differ_v not_o from_o other_o orthodox_n christian_n in_o any_o essential_o of_o salvation_n no_o nor_o in_o fundamental_o of_o church-constitution_n save_v in_o the_o point_n of_o baptism_n and_o will_v you_o by_o reason_n of_o the_o enormity_n of_o some_o who_o former_o bear_v the_o name_n of_o anabaptist_n mention_v the_o old_a munster_n story_n condemn_v as_o such_o all_o that_o bear_v that_o name_n in_o answer_n to_o which_o i_o ask_v you_o whether_o the_o like_a reflection_n may_v nor_o have_v be_v cast_v on_o christ_n apostle_n because_o they_o have_v a_o judas_n among_o they_o or_o on_o the_o church_n of_o the_o corinthian_n because_o of_o the_o incestuous_a person_n beside_o you_o know_v not_o but_o in_o may_v be_v a_o lie_v raise_v upon_o those_o people_n by_o the_o envious_a papist_n who_o have_v render_v calvin_n and_o luther_n as_o odious_a as_o you_o do_v these_o anabaptist_n you_o will_v think_v it_o hard_o if_o i_o shall_v ask_v you_o what_o sort_n they_o be_v that_o ralph_n wallis_n use_v to_o expose_v and_o fill_v his_o gart_n with_o or_o of_o those_o clergyman_n who_o be_v pedo-baptist_n yet_o be_v for_o filthy_a crime_n execute_v to_o conclude_v i_o wish_v that_o all_o bitterness_n of_o spirit_n be_v expel_v love_n and_o charity_n exercise_v towards_o one_o another_o though_o in_o some_o thing_n we_o may_v differ_v from_o one_o another_o query_n for_o the_o athenian_a society_n to_o answer_n some_o of_o which_o be_v former_o send_v to_o they_o but_o be_v pass_v by_o in_o silence_n 1._o on_o infant_n the_o subject_n of_o baptism_n and_o 2._o what_o baptism_n be_v first_o whither_o there_o be_v not_o a_o twofold_a covenant_n make_v with_o abraham_n one_o with_o his_o fleshly_a seed_n and_o the_o other_o with_o his_o spiritual_a seed_n signify_v by_o the_o bond_n woman_n and_o the_o free_a woman_n and_o their_o son_n ishmael_n and_o isaac_n if_o so_o i_o query_n whether_o circumcision_n be_v a_o 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they_o right_o to_o circumcision_n or_o not_o rather_o the_o mere_a positive_a command_n of_o god_n to_o abraham_n since_o we_o do_v not_o read_v of_o any_o other_o godly_a man_n seed_n in_o abraham_n day_n or_o since_o have_v any_o right_n thereto_o but_o only_o such_o who_o be_v bear_v in_o his_o house_n or_o buy_v with_o his_o money_n three_o whether_o circumcision_n can_v be_v say_v to_o be_v the_o seal_n of_o any_o man_n faith_n save_o abraham_n only_a see_v it_o be_v say_v he_o receive_v the_o sign_n of_o circumcision_n a_o seal_n of_o the_o righteousness_n of_o the_o faith_n he_o have_v mark_v yet_o be_v uncircumcisied_a that_o he_o may_v be_v the_o father_n of_o all_o that_o believe_v which_o be_v the_o privilege_n of_o abraham_n only_o for_o how_o can_v circumcision_n be_v a_o seal_n to_o child_n of_o that_o faith_n they_o have_v before_o circumcise_v see_v they_o have_v no_o faith_n at_o all_o as_o have_v abraham_n their_o father_n they_o be_v oblige_v by_o the_o law_n of_o 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god_n nor_o 〈◊〉_d promise_v make_v to_o such_o who_o do_v it_o nor_o threat_v denounce_v on_o such_o who_o neglect_v it_o or_o do_v it_o not_o for_o though_o there_o be_v both_o promise_v make_v to_o believer_n baptise_a and_o threat_v denounce_v on_o such_o who_o neglect_v it_o yet_o where_o be_v there_o any_o such_o in_o respect_n of_o infant-baptism_n ten_o whether_o a_o pagan_a or_o indian_a who_o shall_v attain_v to_o the_o knowledge_n of_o the_o greek_a tongue_n or_o of_o the_o english_a or_o any_o other_o tongue_n into_o which_o the_o original_a shall_v be_v translate_v by_o read_v over_o the_o new_a testament_n a_o thousand_o time_n he_o can_v ever_o find_v infant_n ought_v to_o be_v baptise_a if_o not_o how_o do_v it_o appear_v the_o faith_n of_o people_n about_o pedo-baptism_n stand_v in_o the_o power_n of_o god_n
and_o knowledge_n of_o his_o word_n and_o not_o rather_o in_o the_o wisdom_n of_o man_n who_o have_v endeavour_v with_o all_o the_o art_n and_o cunning_a they_o can_v to_o draw_v pretend_a consequence_n for_o it_o though_o after_o all_o they_o do_v not_o natural_o and_o genuine_o follow_v from_o the_o premise_n to_o which_o they_o reser_fw-ge eleven_o whether_o christ_n have_v express_o mention_v the_o qualification_n of_o such_o as_o be_v to_o be_v baptise_a viz._n actual_a repentance_n faith_n and_o the_o answer_n of_o a_o good_a conscience_n etc._n etc._n do_v not_o thereby_o exclude_v all_o those_o who_o be_v not_o capable_a of_o those_o qualification_n twelve_o whether_o it_o do_v not_o reflect_v upon_o the_o care_n wisdom_n and_o faithfulness_n of_o jesus_n christ_n who_o as_o a_o son_n over_o his_o own_o house_n exceed_v the_o care_n and_o faithfulness_n of_o moses_n to_o affirm_v infant_n ought_v to_o be_v baptise_a and_o yet_o it_o can_v be_v find_v in_o all_o the_o new_a testament_n can_v it_o be_v think_v it_o shall_v be_v a_o gospel-precept_n nay_o a_o sacrament_n and_o yet_o christ_n speak_v nothing_o of_o it_o or_o can_v it_o be_v in_o the_o commission_n and_o yet_o the_o apostle_n never_o to_o mention_v it_o but_o contrariwise_o require_v faith_n of_o all_o they_o admit_v to_o baptism_n paul_n say_v he_o declare_v the_o whole_a counsel_n of_o god_n and_o say_v nothing_o of_o it_o in_o any_o of_o his_o epistle_n nor_o no_o where_o else_o how_o many_o thousand_o of_o child_n be_v bear_v to_o baptize_v believer_n from_o the_o time_n of_o christ_n ascension_n to_o the_o time_n john_n write_v the_o revelation_n but_o not_o one_o word_n of_o any_o one_o child_n baptise_a thirteen_o whether_o in_o matter_n of_o positive_a right_n such_o as_o baptism_n be_v we_o ought_v not_o to_o keep_v express_o and_o punctual_o to_o the_o revelation_n of_o the_o will_n of_o the_o lawgiver_n fourteen_o whether_o the_o baptism_n of_o infant_n be_v not_o a_o dangerous_a 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vivification_n unto_o newness_n of_o life_n rom._n 6._o col._n 2.11,12_o 22._o whether_o all_o such_o who_o have_v only_o be_v sprinkle_v ought_v not_o to_o be_v deem_v unbaptise_v person_n since_o aspersion_n be_v not_o immersion_n or_o rantize_v not_o baptise_v for_o though_o the_o greek_a word_n baptizo_fw-la in_o a_o remote_a and_o improper_a sense_n may_v signify_v to_o wash_v yet_o as_o the_o learned_a confess_v it_o be_v such_o a_o wash_n as_o be_v do_v by_o dip_v swill_a or_o plunge_v the_o person_n or_o thing_n all_o over_o in_o the_o water_n 23._o since_o you_o say_v child_n have_v faith_n potentia_fw-la i_o query_n whether_o unbeliever_n and_o all_o ungodly_a person_n have_v not_o also_o the_o like_a faith_n potentia_fw-la as_o well_o as_o child_n and_o so_o the_o same_o right_n to_o baptism_n we_o grant_v they_o may_v have_v faith_n hereafter_o what_o tho_o there_o be_v one_o assertion_n and_o argument_n lay_v down_o by_o you_o which_o i_o omit_v in_o my_o answer_n which_o as_o it_o be_v new_a so_o it_o must_v needs_o expose_v you_o viz._n if_o god_n be_v please_v to_o radiate_a or_o shine_v upon_o the_o soul_n of_o child_n in_o heaven_n and_o they_o do_v behold_v the_o face_n of_o god_n as_o our_o saviour_n say_v than_o it_o follow_v that_o they_o have_v faith_n in_o heaven_n and_o why_o not_o on_o earth_n see_v heb._n 11.27_o these_o be_v your_o very_a word_n reply_v i_o have_v think_v that_o in_o heaven_n the_o faith_n of_o the_o adult_n cease_v i.e._n the_o strong_a and_o say_v faith_n of_o believer_n do_v not_o the_o apostle_n say_v then_o we_o come_v to_o receive_v the_o end_n of_o our_o faith_n and_o be_v not_o faith_n turn_v there_o into_o vision_n be_v not_o faith_n the_o evidence_n of_o thing_n not_o see_v and_o the_o substance_n of_o thing_n hope_v for_o heb._n 11.1,2_o divine_n say_v faith_n hope_n etc._n etc._n cease_v then_o
the_o ancient_a church_n it_o prove_v nothing_o shall_v we_o believe_v your_o history_n as_o firm_o as_o we_o do_v believe_v there_o be_v a_o alexander_n the_o great_a or_o a_o cato_n etc._n etc._n if_o there_o be_v no_o infant-baptism_n in_o the_o scripture_n it_o be_v utter_o go_v yet_o we_o challenge_v you_o to_o show_v from_o authentic_a history_n that_o one_o infant_n be_v baptize_v in_o the_o first_o or_o second_o century_n which_o we_o be_v not_o able_a to_o disprove_v by_o as_o good_a authority_n thirteen_o if_o there_o be_v not_o a_o congregation_n call_v anabaptist_n till_o 300_o year_n after_o christ_n it_o signify_v nothing_o as_o we_o have_v show_v moreover_o we_o affirm_v that_o all_o the_o apostolical_a primitive_a church_n be_v baptist_n i._n e._n such_o who_o only_o baptize_v believer_n and_o so_o continue_v till_o the_o apostasy_n see_v our_o further_a answer_n to_o this_o to_o your_o first_o mercury_n we_o can_v prove_v there_o be_v a_o testimony_n bear_v against_o infant-baptism_n before_o 380_o year_n after_o christ_n nay_o before_o the_o end_n of_o the_o three_o century_n see_v tertul._n in_o his_o book_n de_fw-fr baptismo_fw-la c._n 18._o who_o oppose_a infant-baptism_n 1._o from_o the_o mistake_n of_o that_o text_n mat._n 19.14_o suffer_v little_a child_n to_o come_v unto_o i_o the_o lord_n say_v say_v he_o do_v not_o forbid_v they_o to_o come_v unto_o i_o let_v they_o come_v therefore_o when_o they_o grow_v elder_a when_o they_o learn_v when_o they_o be_v teach_v why_o they_o come_v let_v they_o be_v make_v christian_n when_o they_o can_v know_v christ_n he_o add_v six_o argument_n more_o and_o to_o confirm_v this_o testimony_n of_o tertullian_n see_v dr._n barlow_n say_v he_o tertullian_n dislike_v and_o condemn_v infant-baptism_n as_o unwarrantable_a and_o irrational_a daillé_n also_o say_v that_o tertullian_n be_v of_o a_o opinion_n that_o infant_n be_v not_o to_o be_v baptize_v the_o like_a say_v divers_a other_o as_o mr._n danvers_n show_v which_o his_o opposer_n can_v not_o refute_v so_o that_o it_o appear_v you_o be_v ignrant_a both_o of_o scripture_n and_o history_n too_o and_o do_v but_o abuse_v yourselves_o and_o the_o world_n also_o in_o this_o matter_n gentleman_n you_o be_v better_o give_v over_o than_o afresh_o to_o blow_v up_o the_o fire_n and_o coal_n of_o contention_n you_o mistake_v in_o your_o three_o column_n we_o be_v not_o to_o prove_v a_o negative_a i._n e._n that_o no_o infant_n be_v baptize_v in_o those_o church_n you_o must_v prove_v they_o be_v fourteen_o your_o reply_n about_o our_o saviour_n not_o be_v baptize_v till_o thirty_o year_n old_a it_o be_v because_o he_o be_v a_o jew_n and_o proselyte_v heathen_n be_v only_o baptize_v when_o young_a be_v a_o fig-leaf_n still_o insist_v upon_o the_o old_a jewish_a custom_n to_o which_o we_o have_v give_v you_o a_o full_a answer_n fifteen_o what_o you_o say_v about_o dip_v and_o mention_v 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d and_o that_o author_n show_v that_o it_o signify_v only_o a_o bare_a and_o slight_a wash_n and_o that_o paung_a and_o wash_v be_v very_o distinct_a this_o word_n come_v from_o the_o same_o verb_n you_o say_v signify_v to_o dip_v or_o plunge_v and_o whereas_o you_o hint_n that_o beza_n will_v have_v we_o baptize_v they_o but_o not_o 〈◊〉_d they_o you_o be_v resolve_v to_o prevent_v that_o danger_n who_o only_o sprinkle_v or_o rantize_n they_o i_o affirm_v dip_v or_o plunge_v all_o learned_a in_o the_o greek_a tongue_n and_o critic_n do_v general_o assert_v be_v the_o literal_a proper_a and_o genuine_a signification_n of_o the_o word_n 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d and_o if_o it_o any_o where_o refer_v to_o wash_v it_o be_v to_o such_o a_o wash_n as_o be_v do_v by_o dip_v or_o swill_v in_o the_o water_n all_o sort_n of_o wash_v be_v not_o distinct_a from_o dip_v and_o that_o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d to_o baptize_v be_v to_o wash_v unless_o it_o it_o be_v such_o a_o wash_n as_o be_v by_o dip_v we_o deny_v be_v it_o not_o the_o same_o with_o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d also_o the_o septuagint_n do_v render_v the_o word_n tabal_n by_o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d and_o which_o all_o translator_n say_v a_o good_a author_n both_o i_o atin_n dutch_a italian_a french_a and_o english_a do_v translate_v to_o dip_v and_o always_o signify_v to_o dip_v as_o gen._n 37.31_o leu._n 4.6_o numb_a 16.18_o 2_o king_n 5.14_o etc._n etc._n grotius_n say_v it_o signify_v to_o dip_v over_o head_n and_o ear_n pasor_n a_o immersion_n dip_v or_o submersion_n leigh_n in_o his_o critica_fw-la sacra_fw-la say_v its_o native_a and_o proper_a signification_n be_v to_o dip_v into_o the_o e_z water_n or_o to_o plunge_v under_o the_o water_n and_o that_o it_o be_v take_v from_o a_o dyer_n fat_a and_o not_o a_o bare_a wash_v only_o see_v casaubon_n bucan_n bullinger_n zanchy_a beza_n etc._n etc._n to_o close_v have_v we_o not_o cause_n to_o affirm_v you_o reproach_v we_o to_o say_v our_o ring_n leader_n come_v to_o ill_a death_n what_o signify_v your_o story_n of_o john_n bocold_n of_o leyden_n and_o as_o if_o erasma_n etc._n etc._n have_v a_o ill_a opinion_n of_o the_o anabaptist_n of_o his_o time_n do_v it_o follow_v you_o may_v vilify_v the_o baptist_n of_o these_o time_n from_o thence_o they_o may_v hold_v some_o error_n and_o so_o may_v some_o so_o call_v now_o adays_o as_o well_o as_o some_o pedo-baptist_n who_o be_v papist_n arian_n antitrinitarian_n socinian_n and_o what_o not_o and_o some_o of_o they_o debauch_a liver_n and_o make_v as_o shameful_a end_n these_o thing_n can_v be_v undknown_a to_o you_o but_o how_o base_a it_o be_v in_o you_o thus_o to_o write_v let_v all_o sober_a man_n judge_v your_o pretend_a zeal_n will_v not_o acquit_v you_o from_o a_o slanderous_a tongue_n and_o speak_v evil_a of_o they_o you_o know_v not_o be_v not_o the_o papist_n pedobaptist_n and_o some_o of_o the_o first_o and_o chief_a assertor_n of_o it_o and_o what_o a_o erroneous_a crew_n be_v they_o do_v you_o think_v we_o can_v parallele_v john_n of_o leyden_n among_o some_o of_o the_o pedobaptist_n be_v those_o story_n true_a of_o he_o and_o other_o be_v there_o not_o some_o bad_a man_n of_o every_o persuasion_n as_o well_o as_o good_a i_o exhort_v you_o to_o consider_v what_o account_v you_o will_v be_v able_a to_o give_v for_o assert_v baby_n rantism_n or_o infant_n sprinkle_v since_o it_o be_v not_o command_v of_o god_n etc._n etc._n in_o the_o dreadful_a day_n of_o judgement_n or_o how_o dare_v you_o affirm_v we_o disturb_v the_o church_n of_o christ_n with_o false_a doctrine_n who_o assert_v believer_n only_o be_v the_o subject_n of_o christ_n true_a baptism_n and_o that_o baptism_n be_v immersion_n i.e._n dip_v since_o both_o lie_v so_o plain_a in_o the_o word_n of_o god_n we_o fear_v not_o our_o appear_v upon_o this_o account_n at_o christ_n triounal_n and_o for_o all_o your_o great_a confidence_n your_o practice_n we_o doubt_v not_o in_o the_o least_o will_v be_v find_v to_o be_v no_o truth_n of_o the_o gospel_n but_o a_o unwarrantable_a tradition_n what_o tho_o sir_n tho._n more_n a_o papist_n be_v glad_a he_o have_v not_o proselyte_v person_n to_o his_o youthful_a error_n must_v we_o therefore_o be_v afraid_a to_o promulgate_v a_o positive_a truth_n of_o christ_n be_v it_o not_o say_v this_o sect_n be_v everywhere_o speak_v against_o if_o you_o have_v call_v for_o syllogistical_a argument_n you_o may_v have_v have_v they_o but_o you_o ask_v for_o query_n you_o may_v have_v logical_a argument_n enough_o if_o you_o please_v but_o you_o have_v better_o desist_v to_o conclude_v with_o your_o postscript_n i_o can_v see_v mr._n eliot_n have_v do_v the_o pedo-baptist_n any_o service_n or_o that_o any_o honour_n redound_v to_o he_o for_o that_o work_n of_o he_o how_o in_o the_o gospel-church-state_n the_o promise_n run_v to_o believer_n and_o their_o child_n or_o offspring_n we_o have_v show_v and_o that_o babe_n of_o two_o or_o ten_o day_n old_a be_v or_o can_v be_v say_v to_o be_v disciple_n be_v without_o proof_n and_o irrational_a what_o though_o they_o may_v belong_v to_o the_o kingdom_n of_o heaven_n or_o be_v save_v baptism_n be_v of_o a_o mere_a positive_a right_n that_o argument_n i_o tell_v you_o again_o will_v admit_v they_o to_o the_o sacrament_n of_o the_o lord_n supper_n as_o well_o as_o to_o baptism_n and_o as_o for_o antiquity_n we_o deny_v not_o but_o that_o it_o be_v receive_v by_o divers_a as_o a_o apostolical_a tradition_n a_o little_a time_n before_o nazianzen_n or_o austin_n yet_o that_o it_o be_v preach_v as_o necessary_a to_o salvation_n before_o austin_n do_v it_o you_o can_v prove_v though_o we_o deny_v not_o but_o it_o be_v practise_v before_o augustine_n day_n see_v dr._n taylor_n lib._n proph._n p._n 237._o and_o