in one and the same Kingdom would be considered when such an Interest growâ—s up from its infancy and first Reformation into a fuller and more perfect man And whether their petitioning of a power from the State to compleat and make them an Eldership and Presbytery doth not imply a power in the State more or rather as fully Ecclesiasticall as their Presbytery for can the State give them any Ecclesiasticall power and have none it selfe so as according to these Principles the State is Ecclesiastical as well as they and so not to be denied the power of Commissioning with them or else t is a meere contradiction to pray for power from those to their Eldership and Presbytery which they say is a Government and Power entirely Ecclesiasticall and compleat in it selfe and so as they either pray for that which they have of their own already or else pray for that from the State which they cannot give them Petition It belongs unto them by Divine Right and by the Will and appointment of Jesus Christ which with the help of superiour Assemblies in cases of appeale or in all administrations therein will prevent through the blessing of God all the feared inconveniences Inference Whence we may infer that the Presbytery and Eldership of a Congregation is of Divine Right c. yet that Divine Right is perfected and compleated by that which is not of as pure Divine Right as it selfe viz. Superiour Assemblies and so becomes neither purely Prudentiall nor Divine but Mixt and so is neither good Divine nor good Humane Right Petition And the Magistrate to whom we professe the Church to be accountable for their proceedings in all their Elderships and Church Assemblies and punishable by him with Civill censures for their miscarriages Inference Whence we may inferre that the Civill Magistrate is neither over nor under the Presbytery and where they place it who can tell by this Petition of theirs for over it the Magistrate is not for they say Commissioners over them are not sufferable and under it they say the Magistrate is not for their Eldership and Presbytery are to be accountable to the Civill power for their miscarriages and how at the same time they should subject their Churches in their mal Administrations to the Magistrates power of judging and yet challenge such an entire sole supreame and Ecclesiasticall Judicature is a mystery becomming the learning of that same Assembly to reveale which first begun it Principles against the Divine Right o◠〈…〉 present Presbytery extracted from the Reasons 1. THey are no such Presbyters of Jesus Christ as the first were because ordained by an Antichristian power of Bishops nor were Bishops true Presbyteres nor those who joyned with them in their Ordination who were made by them nor is there any succession of Ordination but it implies both a Perpetuall Visible Church and a true Church Ministery and Ordinances under Antichrist which all are to be proved by them 2. If there were any such true Church invisible under Antichrist to which they succeed in their Ministery then it must appeare that they succeed that very invisible Church and that that very invisible Church had a true Ministery or Presbytery in it for men may be Saints or good men yet not good Presbyters or Ministerially sent 3. As they now in their practice will not account any for true Presbyters but such who can prove to them their personall Ordination from them so we demand of these Presbyters an account of their personall succession accordingly which personall succession if it be false and interrupted any where in the Line must needs be all false from such a point where the first interruption was made 4. Though Christs promise is enough to ground a perpetuity of Church and Christs presence yet not of his promise made good to such particular men or to their pretended succession 5. They that challenge a Divine Right to the power they act by must act by a gift as Divine and infallible as their right and power and thus did the primitive Presbyters and Elders therefore the gift being but mixt their right or power is but mixt accordingly and not Divine 6. They who were Elders or Presbyters in the first Churches as Ierusalem c. were gifted by a spirit which taught the very infallible Word which is now written or Scripture and so they then did constitute advise counsell in the place of this written Word and all Scripture Formes and Institutions were then in the gift and persons but no such thing can be said of any Eldership or Presbytery of men now 7. They who set up an Eldership or Presbytery now of Divine Right to constitute ordaine counsell c. do joyne to the Word written or infallible Scripture a Power lesse infallibly gifted who by such a Divine Right and Power pretended shall controle the Word of Truth by Interpretations of that Word lesse then Truth which is not consistent with the glory of the Word 8. There is no Eldership or Presbytery in Scripture but either the Churches Act did precede it act it or accompany it by precept or practice which makes the Divine Right of the Presbytery questionable uncertain unsafe because of a contrary Scripture and Precept 9. The Eldership and Presbytery which are brought for instances are questionable first for the Persons who were not such very Presbyters as they would imply but Apostles Evangelists c. or otherwise ordained either by Apostles or Church or otherwise gifted by speciall unction or else an Eldership of eminency not of Office 10. They hold this Divine Right is in the first subject in the Congregationall Presbytery and yet they set up a Classicall Provinciall Nationall Presbytery to compleat and controle this of the Congregationall and how this their Divine Right can be subjected thus to a Right lesse Divine is unreasonable and unscripturall to imagine 11. Suppose such a power as a Nationall Presbytery collected from all parts of the Kingdom every Congregation having an Interest or part there and this Presbytery so Nationall and Collective informed by a Divine Right for judging sins c. shall not this Nationall Presbytery take cognizance of States if sinning Ecclesiastically as well as others and if so what proceeding what cenâ—ures will follow from such a body as universall as the body of that State and of as much Interest in the Kingdom as they and of more interest by how much more Divine a Right they act by and by how much neerer they are seated to the conscience and how Kingdoms have been embroyled by such an Ecclesiasticall Interest Histories will tell ye 12. So as in this straite when Parliament is perswaded of no Divine Right Assembly of a Divine Right and the Dissenting brethren of another Divine Right is not the way this to let the Parliament have their Liberty of Conscience to settle no Divine Right by a power and the Assembly to use their Liberty in a Divine Right with all that
gifts which it alwaies had and they are joyned both in the Word and practice as in Heb. 6. 1. Doctrine of Baptisms and Laying on of hands and in their practice they were joyned as in act Act. 8. 14. 15 16. And it will appeare in the Word that the Apostles did not so reckon of them single but together as in Act. 8. 14 15 16. where it is said they were only Baptized in the Name of the Lord Jesus but they prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Ghost So as Baptism by water and by the Holy Ghost being joyned together both in Institution Doctrine and Practice are not to be separated nor given in such a time wherein that of the Holy Ghost is not given For what God hath joyned together let no man put asunder 11. That it is as unreasonable to take any such Ordinance of Jesus Christ from any that is not distinctly specially spiritually powerfully enabled as the first dispensers as it is to take the word of any common man charging us in the name of the Parliament and cannot visibly make out a visible Excellency and Supremacy of power by Ordinance or Commission 12. That these Churches who enjoy Christs mind as they think most fully in the practice oâ— Ordinances yet have no greater gifts in their Churches then there are in those called Independent or Separatist Prayer Teaching Prophesying being as fully and powerfully performed in the one as the other And being so Whether must not the Churches of Christ be distinguished by some more visible glorious power and gifts as at first by which they may be discerned to excell all other Societies 13. That the fulnesse of time is not yet come for Ordinances For as there were severall seasons for the givings out of Truth before so now Seeking or Seekers So called What their Way is and what they hold THat there is no Church nor Ordinances yet That if they did not end with the Primitive or Apostles times yet they are to begin as in the Primitive times with gifts and miracles and that there is as much reason for the like gifts to make out the Truth of any of the Gospell now to an Antichristian estate as formerly to a Jewish or Heathenish That such a Belever as can dispence Ordinances must be qualified as the Beleevers in Mark 16. and as the former Disciples were That there is a time and fulnesse for the Spirit and for the latter pure spirituall dispensations as there was formerly for the first dispensations And whether this shall be while the Angels are but powring out their Vials or not or when Babilon is fallen And whether there is not as much need for new Tongues to reveale the pure Origionall to us it being conveyed with corruptions and additionals in Translations by which Truth may be more purely discovered and the waters of Life that now run muddily may flow more cleare and Crystal-like from the Throne of God The Exceptions 1. THat Jesus Christ did promise to be ever with his Church and therefore cannot be reasonably presumed to leave them without Church and Ordinances 2. That if Scriptures were not so pure and cleere to us as the Word of Life were not sufficiently there God were lesse gracious to us now under Grace and Christ come in the flesh then before to the Jews who gave them a Book of the Law which remained with them to the coming of the Messiah 3. That such gifts and miracles were rather for bringing the Word into the world and for glorifying Christs first coming in the flesh then for after 4. That if we must have miracles to make us beleeve and not beleeve any truth till then we must have for every Truth as well as for one or two a miracle to give it evidence and so there must be a continuall and new miracle working for every new beleeving 5. If there must be miracles for beleeving Truth is not of that excellent nature that it seems for if it be not able to make it selfe evident and cast a native and spirituall f shine or brightnesse upon that soule it comes into it is but weake dark and insufficient 6. If Truth be not discernable in it self by its own glorious lightsome nature by beames from it self it is of a worse condition then many things below as the Sun and Stars and Candles c. which bring that light in their own nature and dispensation by which they are discerned 7. If every Truth be a became of Christ the truth then every beame hath light in it selfe because it streams from the fountaine of light and so is discernable 8. That it is more glorious to take evidences from the Spirit then from any thing without which can at the farthest of it self but convince the outward man 9. That all shall now in the last times be in a secret invisible inward spirituall glory no more in grosse carnall visible evidences and materiall beams as gifts miracles And this is to know Christ no more after the flesh 10. No miracles can in their own nature make one beleeve without a spirituall conviction from the Spirit of Christ going along with it so as we see when miracles were wrought some beleeved and some beleeved not So as then there is no such reason for miracles as pretended because that conviction which comes from the Spirit through the work of a miracle may come by any other instrumentall or originall way Or it is a more glorious operation by how much more single or by way of immediate revelation it works 11. To beleeve meerly by the Spirit is far more glorious then by any other outward means though never so outwardly glorious by how much the Spirit is more excellent then any thing else by so much more divine and spirituall are the impressions of it 12. That when miracles are wrought yet a pretender may work a miracle for the contrary like the Sorcerers of Egypt against Moses and Antichrist is spoken on rather to come with signes and wonders of the two then Christ So as here shall be a losse to any that think to beleeve meerly by miracle So as the Spirit is that which must make us beleeve beyond all the power of miracle which can give out its power but upon the sense at farthest being meerly outward and visible 13. That there is no such power for Ordinances as is pretended but Beleevers as Disciples may administer and so did the Apostles and Beleevers formerly as they were Disciples 14. That the Scriptures of the Gospell or New Testament are of such a divine and even Spirituall glory in the Letter as no other word There is a power to discover the reason and secrets of the heart which the reason and heart of man witnesses unto There is a power to convince and accase and terrifie and comfort clearly and undeniably and
sin My proofe is this in behalfe of your Argument That conscience which is not wholly consenting is not fully perswaded But such is the State or Publike conscience viz. not fully consenting at this time Therefore the State-conscience is not fully perswaded Note Because some are more for it some are lesse for it I prove the State-conscience not fully consenting That conscience which hath not Scripture to secure it cannot be fully consenting or perswaded But such is the Publike conscience at this time concerning this present Government Therefore the Publike or State-conscience cannot be so fully consenting or perswaded Note Because they which cannot call it a Government by Divine Right are not secured concerning it by the Word and then by conscience are not fully consenting nor perswaded Master Ley's Resolution pag 9 10. If we take his reason to stand immediately against obedience and so consequently against commands c. It is more formall but still as feeble Repugnant to Religion and reason against former Protestations and the Covenant for some will alwaies scruple c. Reply Some of this might have been spared Let us have as much reason and as little reviling as may be Your reason is because then neither Protestations nor Covenant of State can be administred for some will alwaies scruple So as here is the force of your reason Because Protestations and Covenants in the State are put upon a people unwilling and malignant therefore Government should First a truth of Government and the establishment of it is but indirectly unsutably and disproportionably proved from Oaths and Covenants Indeed under the Old Testament and in the State of Israel Covenants were more agreeable to the way of that Church they were part of the Worship then and it was a way of obligation and engagement fitted more to the Policie of that Nation They were a People or Nation of themselves singled out from the world and marked by a carnall Ordinance And their Discipline was fitted to the whole Nation by God himselfe and so Covenants c. gathered them up from the world into their Nationall way of Worship c. But now the way of Church and Worship changing and the Laws of such kind of externall Pedagogie ceasing and a more inward and spirituall Law comming in you might have done well â—re you took things thus for granted to cleere the way of Covenants under the Gospell and not to prove one probable thing by another Those of your way are against a little Church Covenant and why not a great one For the imposing of Protestations now c. It is not my work here to discusse nor am I against any way of State-security that may consist with â—ound Prudence and for the spirituall part of them wherein men covenant in the things of God let every one be fully perswaded in his own mind That is the Apostle's rule I am sure what ever any say to the contrary and will stand In civill things I would have any way or designe of assurance that is fairly and justly Politick in spirituell things only such waies of assurance as are Gospell-waies and may sure with the New Testament-beleevers And now you are to prove more then perhaps you thought on that is to cleare a Church-covenant which many of your Way are against for though you condemne it in some Churches not of your Way yet a Nationall Church-covenant you plead for And how can this be both true and false that a great Church-covenant is lawfull and a little one unlawfull A Nationall Church-covenant lawfull and a Particular or Congregationall Church-covenant unlawfull This only by the way To shew you how one may mistake his way in a mist you were proving a Government and now you are engaged to prove Church covenants which you are both for and against And yet after all this of Protestations and Covenants there is no faire proofe of establishing a Government or imposing it in your way and designe from these It is not safe going to the State for a Paterne for the Church If the State in certain seasons of unfaithfulnesse and unsettlement contrive any way of security and assurance necessity is often a law maker in States yet not so in the Church will you from hence argue for a liberty in the Church Will you make necessity your Gospell your Law-giver there Necessity is sometimes a suspender of laws in the Gospell but no law-maker Master Ley's Resolution pag. 10. But I answer I wonder an ingenuous man as M. Saltmarsh is should make such an Objection Reply These are good words and I hope you shall have no worse then you bring Yet we must speak truth Master Ley's Resolution page 10. I answer The Church government is such as in the chiefe parts of it is from the Word Reply You grant then that the Government is but in some parts warrantable by the Word So was Episcopacie and Prelacy in some parts of it There is not any false Worship or Way but it hath some parts of truth in it The great Image had a head of gold c. The Mystery of iniquity sits in the Temple of God c. The Whore of Babilon sits in Skarlet decked with gold and precious stones and Pearles Truth must be all one and the same and homogeneal not in parts The Jews had not the Law but then their own traditions mingled There is one Lord one Faith not two Master Ley's Resolution page 10. Things of lesser moment in it though they are not directly from Scripture yet not repugnant they are of Prudence and agreeable to the best Reformed Churches Reply But Why of lesser moment All things are of moment of spirituals Indeed if they be such as be not the Gospel s they are then as you say of lesser moment and yet of moment too in another sense for Traditions of men make void the Commandements of God Nor are the grounds of Prudence any Scripture-grounds to rule by Prudence hath let in more Will-worship then any thing Prelacy had its Prudence for every New additionall in Worship and Government And if Presbytery take Prudence too let the Reader judge what may follow And what is that Not directly from Scripture yet not repugnant Surely Christ's rule is not such he opposes any Tradition to the Commandements of God Not directly from Scripture is repugnant to Scripture Such is the onenesse entirenesse indivisibility and essentiality of the Truth He that is not with me is against me And for the Reformed Churches as a rule that is to set the Sun by the Dyall and not the Dyall by the Sun We must set the Churches by the Word and not Church by Church and the Word by the Church Master Ley's Resolution page 10. 11. Because the practice of the Government belongs not to the peoples part but to the Ministers and Elders Because so far as concerns the peoples compliance they are to be instructed before they yeeld submission Because if any
his bloud and which he hath promised to drink with us new in his Fathers Kingdome Nor will the wine be alwayes new to those that are renewed as they ought to be indeed for your Parishes which you call old Bottles I am sure the wine or pure government is too new for them Nor will the Bottles be older as you say the longer the government is delayed if the power of the Word be there for renewing them But you say What sense is this What logicall connexion I answer that shall appear there is sense enough and connexion enough and Logike enough though I had rather have more Scripture and lesse Logike for all I aim at is what the Scripture aims at that the bottles should be fit for the wine the necks for the yoke and the subjects for the commands Master Ley's Resolution Page 23 24. To that of his That Jesus Christ could as easily have set up his government by miracle had there been such a primary c. necessity c. 1. The acts and times for divine Providence towards his Church are various God had his Church at first and no written Word for it till the Law was writ and Moses wrote c. And God added to the morall Lawes ceremoniall and judiciall divers of which were not executed till forty yeares after at their comming into Canaan so far ws God beforehand 2. Whereas he saith Christ could as easily have setled the government by miracle we grant it yea and more without a miracle and yet more that he did so in Mat. 16. 19. John 10. 23. Mat. 18. 15 16 17. 3. If Christs delay of Government must be our example then as well for the Anabaptisticall delay of Baptism till his age Luke 3. 23. nor was it Johns office to set up a Government but to prepare the way c. And Christs publike Ministery lasted but foure yeares or three yeares and a half and he began then to set up Government Reply All your proof reaches but to this 1. That God dealt variously with his Church They had first no written Word and after a written Word 2. That Christ could have setled his Government by miracle but did not 3. That Christs delay of Government must be no more our example then his Baptisme My proofe was to shew there was no such morall necessity of the setling because it was not setled Now what have you overthrown here Not that Christ suspended his Government and the seâ—ling of it for that you grant with me and prove it more at large then I did so as all your rest will be answered in two particulars 1. To that of Gods Church and Government before his Word c. which you would insinuate as some advantage to your serling c. What is that to Gods dispensation now if there wanted a Word there was a supplement of vision and dreams c. And I hope you will not goe before the Law so much as you doe for a Patern You goe too far when you goe to the times of the Law You have a Prophet now to hear in all things Act. 3. 22 2. To that of Baptism to be delayed as well as Government from Christs example I cannot dispute that here Master Tomes will satisfie you at large in his learned Examen where he hath made work for a whole Assembly That he knowes not but it may be delayed till they be of years But to answer you in your scope You bring this to prove That Christ is not to be imitated in all things I grant it But what is that to prove that Christ setled not his Government when he began his Ministery or Iohns For the businesse on your part is to find out either that the Government was setled before or with the Ministery or there was as much necessity of it as of the Word but for some reason and not from any thing in the nature of the Government but some other extrinsicall reason it was delayed Which ought not to take place now And this is yet to prove all your proof summed up reaches not to this But you imply The will of God in his dispensations was the cause But the will of God in his dispensations carries a rule of righteousnesse along with it and of spirituall reason And in Gospell dispensations and extrinsicall proceedings of Gods will you will find a rule and golden reed of righteousnesse measuring the Temple and every dispensation and even this of suspending Government hath its rule in the Gospell that a word of obedience must precede and go before a forme of obedience and a word of faith before the obedience of faith and living stones before a living Temple Master Ley's Resolution Page 24 25. Whereas he saith the gifts for Government were not given till Christ ascended it is answered 1. That he ascended 43 dayes after his ministration and that added to the yeare forementioned makes but small difference c. 2. He put his Apostles upon neither of these offices preaching or governing without competent gifts an â—â—ualifications 3. For the modell of it which he saith people fell under as they were capable If he mean the written modell in the Word though it were young in Christs time or his Apostles yet not now we have had 1500 years siâ—câ— Why should that which is so old in constitution be thought too soone for execution And bisides Scripture directions we have many years the paterns of â—â— in many Reformed Churches 4. It hath by soft and slow degrees been brought in aâ— both in debates of Assembly Parliament c. And so sor execution â—â—â— First an Ordinance for Ordination and then a Directory c. Reply You prove here 1. That Christ gave gifts when he ascended and not any longtime in all his ministration and sending gifts 2. That he qualified â—â—s Apostles for government and preaching 3. That the government of Christ now so old should be seen set up as in other Kingdomes 4. That it proceeded by degrees in its setting up here Now all this thus gathered up proves not any thing against my assertion that Christ proceeded by degrees in his Ministery and giving out his government but rather strengthens my assertion And for your Arguments for setling implyed in these particulars 1. That Christs government was but a while in bringing forth the years considered 2. That the government in the Gospel being now so old might to be soone executed 3. That the Paterns of it are in other Reformed Churches I answer to all these in as few words 1. Prove your Argument first to be Christâ— the particulars and entirenesse accordingly and then I shall allow you your Argument but you grant it to be but partly Christs and partly the Assemblies or of Prudence 2. You must prove but the same againe that the government you have is the government there withall Gospel-necessaries take in else though the Gospel-government be never so old yours is but new and this Argument
it Quaere If confident sleightings c. were counted no sufficient answers from the Prelates to the Presbyters why are Presbyters sleightings counted so sufficient arguments for their Dissenting Brethren now and if to raile be to reason and to revile be to refute Mr. Edwards and some of his brethren have as strongly confuted us as the Prelates did formerly them 17. Prelates impropriate Orthodox In impropriating to the same party the praise of Orthodox as if to speak a word or think a thought against them were no lesse Heresie then it was in former times to speak against the Popes Supremacy or the Monks fat belly Quaere 1. It it were so ill taken by the Presbyters then that the Prelates impropriated the name Orthodox how may it be taken now by all the rest who are cast out as Hereticks and Schismaticks while they walke abroad cloathed only in the name of Orthodox Divines 2. If the Popes Supremacy and the Monks fat belly and the Prelates could not beare a word nor a thought against them are not some Divines working for a supremacy and a reuenue against which it may prove as great a crime to speake 18. All not of their opinion are factious Sure the man thinks he hath obtained a Monopoly of Learning and all knowledge is loct up in his bosome and not only Knowledge but Piety and peaceablenesse too for all that are not of his opinion must suffer either as weak or factious if he may be their judge Quaere 1. Whether do not they who hold all other in Schisme and Heresie and a company of Mechanicks who conforme not to them conceive they have the Monopoly of Learning as once the Prelates did and who are these now 2. Whether do not they who look on their Brethren that dissent as Troubâ—ers Factious Schismaticall cenceive all Piety and peaceablenesse to be lockt up in their own bosomes and who are they and who are the weake and factious if they may be judges 19. Prelates pathes causes of Divisions It is no wonder concerning the pathes our Prelates have trod that there are divisions in the Nation the wonder is the Divisions are no more no greater Quaere If the usurpation Tyranny Persecution of the Prelates were reckoned for the supreme division makers in the Kingdom when the Non-conformists were the only Separatists Why do they not find out some other or such like cause now in some other place rather then amongst their dissenting Brethren themselves whom they now only accuse of division and faction but this is the difference of being Parties and Iudges we naturally spie out faults furthest from our selves 20. Where is the Church of England We desire him to tell us what the Church of England is for it doth not please him that we should call the Convocation the Church of England much lesse the Bishops or Archbishops Quaere It was so hard to find out the Church of England in the Prelates dayes surely it is hard to find it out now then it seemes neither Synod Bishops nor Archbishops were the Church Then Quaere where is the Church now not in the Assembly they are but consulting how to build the Church not in the Presbytery for that is a Church unbuilt yet not among the Parisâ—es they are not Scripture-Churches or Congregations as the same Smectymnuus sayes then where is the Church of England 21. The name of Church is the Gorgons-Head But these Episcopall men deale as the Papists that dazle the eyes and astonish the senses of poore people with the glorious name of the Church the Church the holy mother the Church this is the Gorgons-Head that hath inchanted them and held them in bondage to their errours all their speech is of the Church the Church no mention of the Scriptures of God the Father but all of the mother the Church Quaere 1. If the name of Church then the Mother-Church the Church was such a Gorgons-Head by which Prelates as well as Papists inchanted thousands of people to beleeve why is that very thing or device taken up in another forme to inchant with still viz. The Church of England the Orthodox Churches the Reformed Churches 2. If the Church Mother was so much spoken on before and the Scriptures so little why is not the Church of England the Reformed Churches the Orthodox Churches and Divines lesse spoken on and the Scriptures more 22. An ill Custome to say Church of England and Conformity It hath been the custome of late times to cry up the holy mother the Church of England to call for absolute obedience to holy Church full conformity to the orders of holy Church neglecting in meane time God the Father and the holy Scriptures Quaere If it hath been the unwarrantable custome of late times to cry up the Church of England and absolute obedience to the Church and conforâ—â—â—â— why is this custome still kept up conformity obedience and uniformity as much called for still as before why is not the word more spoken on and the Reformeâ— Church lesse why is not free Christian liberty peaceable forbâ—arance of each others differing opinions and practices in unity more heard among us and obedience conformity and uniformity lesse 23. To call Schismaticks and Hereticks the Bishops practice Only there is one practice of our Bishops that is their casting out unconforming Brethren commonly known in their Court language by the name of Schismaticks and Hereticks Quaere 1. If the Bishops did practice the casting out the Non-conforming Brethren wâ—itner ought any such practice to be taken up by the Non-conforming Brethren against Brethren now not Conforming to them 2. If all the Non-conforming Brethren were in their Court-language Hereticks and Schismatick whether ought not such names to be sent packing to Court again rather then taken up by the same Brethren who were so much called so themselves Hereticks and Schismaticks that they have taken it up against others 24. Heresies and Schism harsh words But we had hoped the refusall of the use of a Ceremony should never have been equalized in the punishment either to Heresie or Schisme Quaere If you hoped that the refusall of a Ceremony would not have been punished with Heresie and Scâ—ism from Bishops may not your Brethren hope much more from you that their dissenting from you in things of outward Cognizance and Form as Church Order and Baptism would not be so branded for Heresie and Schisme by you who glory in a more Gospell-way as as you were branded yourselves of late 25. Heavie censures for Non-conformity I am sure above the crime of the Remonstrant Non-conforming Brethren who are unsetled in poynts of a meane difference which their usuall language knowns by no betterâ— terme then Schismaticks and factions yet even such as have fallen under the heaviest censures of Excommunication deprivation suspentioâ— c. Quaere 1. Why was it such a crime to count any Schismaticks and factious under Prelacy and
acknowledge and yet that there is a Classicall Provinciall and Nationall Presbytery which are but Prudentiall and humane or mixed Judicatures according to such a distinction and yet are allowed by them a Power Supreme and coercive to the Divine Right of the Congregationall Presbytery which is the first and immediate subject of the Divine Right of Presbytery as they themselves acknowledge And now whether doe not their owne principles controll that pretended Divine Right they plead for and set up a Presbytery of Charity and Prudence over the Presbytery in the particular Congregation which they say is only of Divine Right 4. How can that Presbytery whose constitution is so questionable challenge such a Divine Right As first their Presbyters or first constituting Principles are ordained by a questionable power viz. that of Bishops Their Ruling-Elders by a power as questionable viz. by a Rule or Ordinance of Parliament prudentiall for triall for election because of the generall corruption in this Kingdome both in Ministers and people not by that very Apostolicall Scripture-Rule or Institution of Jesus Christ Their Congregations Parishionall and of politick constitution not Congregationall according to Scripture Their way of constituting this present Presbytery extraordinary by such an Assembly without precept or example for such a Way in the whole New Testament from whence the whole Order of that dispensation ought to be framed and not from the Law or Old Testament or some cases of necessity in the State or Church of Israel by way of Analogy as they say in their Modell to the Parliament The Primitive Elders and Apostles were qualified immediately from the Spirit with gifts proper to such a Ministration which these Presbyters and Elders being not but most by gifts and habits of Art and Science acquired by industry therefore these present Presbyters cannot challenge the same power for Church-Censures without the same Spirit gifting them and anointing them to such a power and administration in the Church but ought to be content meerly with a mixed and partly prudentiall power because of the mixture of their anointing and gifts if they will needs have such a Government set up for Christ's which is not all Christs and most of that all very questionable whether of Christ or no. For all their proofs alleadged from Scripture for the Presbytery by Divine Right or of such Presbyters as were ordained either by Christ himself as the Apostles or by a power from the Apostles or from such who in that power received from the Apostles did ordaine or by a power in the Church or Congregation preceding such a power and accompanying such a power Now this present Presbytery can neither make it selfe appeare to be so purely ordained nor have they the Church or Congregationall power so preceding or accompanying such an Ordination nor is that act of Imposition of hands by which their present Presbyters stand Ministers a meere signe of setting apart or meerly significative but an Institution for gifts to be conferred under the Law it was an empty and bare Rite but under the Gospell it cannot be proved to be such an empty Rite Gospell-signes being but few full and ministeriall to the spirit not meerly significatively-visible as the Institutions and Rites under the Law were So as all being thus questionable still in this present Presbytery how can they so Apostolically challenge such a Divine Right their present constitutions being mixt questionable fallible not one and the same with that primitive pure certaine constitutions and practices Whereas it appears in their Scripture-proofs that both in Jerusalem Ephesus Crete c. the Presbyters and Elders did constitute c. and were most consulted with and advised and therefore they assume the same power and so force out rather then prove out their frame of their present Presbytery from such practices I desire the Brethren to tell us whether the Word of the Gospell was then wholly in Scripture or writing but partly in the Spirit and gifts or teaching and therefore the Eldership of the Churches then were so gifted as to direct constitute advise and from the ministration of gifts in the Eldership c. the Institutions formes and Rules were given out into Scripture or writing which Scripture or written Word is now in the place of that infallible Primitive Eldership and therefore for any Presbytery or Eldership to assume now such a power as the first did they doe not only without warrant substitute themselves to such a Presbytery or Eldership which stood by another anointing or spirit of gifts then themselves doe but they sit downe in the throne with the very Scripture or written Word of God casting a shadow upon the glory and infallibility of that Word by that present authority and power which they now challenge in the interpretation of that Word in their Presbytery because by such a sure and certaine power as Divine Right allowes them they having not a sure and infallible Spirit for Church-censures or the execution of such a power may put forth a certaine sure executive power by an uncertaine unsure and fallible spirit And so how proportionable a power of Divine Right is with a Spirit not purely Divine and how proportionable a power of Church-censures acted by a gift not purely the Spirit 's but rather the Vniversities and Schooles and to joyne such an Eldership so with the infallible Word or Scripture which for want of that primitive or pure anoynting by gifts shall controule the pure Word of Truth by an Interpretation lesse then Truth I leave to all the world of beleevers to judge How such a visible power and Judge as a Nationall Assembly of such a Presbytery can be set up which must judge all the Churches and Congregations of Christ all the Magistracy and State-power in the Kingdom they assuming to themselves a spirit of judging and discerning of sins And whether by this power the Parliament of England shall not fall under the cognisance interpretation and censure of such an Assembly for some sins which they as a Civill power may commit especially dealing in Ecclesiasticall causes And then how far such a Nationall Assembly may manage such crimes to the heightning of their own interest and to the troubling the interest of the State amongst the people I let all judg who know how the same visible Ecclesiasticall Judge is condemned by all the Reformed Kingdoms under another notion viz. of the Antichrist and Pope and Councels And how that Antichristian power and Judge in Ecclesiasticals hath troubled this and other Kingdoms to the imbroiling them by excommunications into Wars and commotions as in our Histories c. and hath at length taken up other weapons then the Word to make good their Ecclesiasticall censures and interests And whether this visible forme of Classicall Provinciall Nationall Oecumenicall be any other then the like Papall Episcopall power differing only in forme in Consistoriall Provinciall Nationall Oecumenicall Counsels and Synods the like spirit
That some of the dissenting Brethren hold Synods Ordinances of God and this Assembly so I know some of our Brethren for the Presbytery hold Infant-Baptism unlawfull and Antichristian and hath better defended it then any yet whom I have read hath answered it And for this Assembly to be an Ordinance of God I thought that had been but an Ordinance of Parliament and stood by that power by which they were called by at first Yet deny not but that consultations for holy ends about the things of God are lawfull by the Word To the Tenth That Presbyteries because not infallibly gifted are of no Divine Right and so concludes against all Presbyteries and Ordinances Yea against all your Presbyteries to be of Divine Right as the first But our question is rather whether the first was any such Presbytery as you now affirme and for ought I see you can no more prove the truth of the Presbytery then in the sense you take it then your Presbytery to be one with it one only in Divine Right not in Divine power or gifts And how are these things sutable To the Eleventh That I contradict the pure Government I plead for by pleading for yours as prudentiall It were true indeed if I pleaded it in mine own behalfe I plead it occasionally for them who will needs have what the State cannot in conscience allow them and yet will not practice any other but what the State shall give them and so trouble both the State and their own consciences and would cast a snare upon both Brethren if ye will needs have the State to allow ye your Presbytery Why are ye not content with what they can allow ye If ye will have a Divine Right which they cannot allow ye why do ye trouble them and sit down under a bondage of your own making But how justly is this yoke come upon you who would have brought a worse upon your Brethren To the Twelfth That the first Presbyters and Apostles c. were not infallible as in divers practices What is this to the truth and gifts they taught and taught by They failed as men but not as Apostles They erred as they were Peter and Paul but not as moved by the Holy Ghost Take heed by opening the Apostles failings to justifie your own you speake not worse Blasphemy then you name in me and make that glorious Word of Scripture questionable which they preached like the words that your selves preach from that Scripture To the Thirteenth That to say the Apostles did advise in place of the written Word is Blasphemy What Blasphemy is it to say that the same Word which they writ and preached the same Spirit spake in them and spake the same truth in them which writ in them And is it so with any of your Presbyters Therefore till the same Spirit speak truth in them so as in the first Presbyters will they challenge the same right the same power Will they have a Divine Right acted by a spirit lesse Divine then the Right To the Fourteenth That the Presbyterians in France Scotland and the Netherlands do not embroyle Kingdoms There is good reason in France they cannot if they would I wish you would walke under the Magistrate as they do and as your dissenting Brethren here and not make him serve you And in the Netherlands do you as they do there and leave your Brethren to the like liberty that is in that State and they will not grudge ye your Presbytery amongst your selves For Scotland they are Brethren I wish no worse to then Truth and Peace and power above their Ministers To that of excommunicating kingdoms being a bugbear You do well to say so till ye be established but you that dare so capitulate with States whom ye are called to advise in things onely propounded what more may be expected upon all your principles I leave to be judged To the Fifteenth That they aske not of the State a power but a liberty to exercise that power Well and will ye trouble the State no further Will ye not intreat them to punish such a one and such a one whom ye judge an Hereticke and a Schismaticke to fine and imprison when you have done with them at Excommunication May the State be quiet if they say to ye go all that are so perswaded as you are and worship and practise as your dissenting brethren and other Saints and trouble not us to provide for your Tythes and Rule for you in things of your own cognizance over Consciences But you would onely have liberty from them your power is of Christ But you cannot so cleare things as you thinke If your power and liberty respectively to your selves and the Magistrate be so distinct why have ye mingled them and confounded them all this while Why make ye the truth and power ye have from Christ wait so at Parliament-doores as Master Case said If the powers on earth will not do for Christ as you would make the people beleeve Why do not ye your selves more for Christ Is it better to obey God or man Thus the more ye would single your selves in your power and right from the Magistrate the more your practice makes an argument against ye To the Sixteenth That I should say 〈◊〉 sound Church Church-officers shall excommunicate and judge of offences and in an unsound the Magistrate and the Inference there I answer I spake and writ so according to your principles not to my owne Nor can I see how you can chalenge such a one entire and simple Discipline exclusively to the Magistrate upon no more true pure and Scripture-principles then your present Presbytery is And I conceive the powers on earth or in the world have to do in every Government that is more of the world then of Christ For if ye exclude them from a part in that Government which is partly prudential and of man you exclude them from off part of their owne Kingdome which is theirs by inheritance and of more Divine Right then I conceive yours to be And whereas you would make us beleeve you stand onely in a pure Gospel strength and power and desire no more of the Magistrate but liberty can this be so in truth when all is esteemed invalid and nothing if the Magistrates power doth not actuate the Ministers power I know you may distinguish of powers Scholastically and Spheres of working for those powers and so tell the Magistrate and us he doth but act in his Sphere when he acts in yours and indeed acts yours making it to be stronger then it is in it selfe But is not his Civil power that which puts life as you think into all your Presbytery Yet he must think he doth but as a Magistrate still as if so be that the Magistrate were made to be rods in the hands of the Church and Swords to be drawn by them and Iron whips at their girdles We are not now as Aarois and Moset we are not
dictinction in the distribution which they have so long breathed after and rejoyced in the expectation of and their condition upon these Principles are no better now in their so much desired-for-Reformation then it was under the Prelates and Common-Prayer-Book which holds the doore more close against sinners then the Vindication or they ought to do upon these his principles And secondly The full and finall determining a Scripture of this kind or any other to one particular sense is not agreeable to that Spirit of Wisdom and of God which is an infinitely abounding Spirit and like the Sun is full of beames and continuall springings of light nor do the Interpretations of the Word appeare all at once the same Scripture which many ages ago gave out one beame of light gave more in the ages after and more now as the eyes of our understanding are enlightned so as Scriptures are not to be bounded in our sense nor the elevations of spirit taken by the short rule of our spirits which is contrary to these Scriptures 2 Pet. 1. 20 21. 2. Cor. 5. 16. Phil. 3. 12 13 15 16. Ephes 3. 18 19. 1 Cor. 2. 14 15. Vindication Fol. 41. If the Sacrament be only a setling or confirming Ordinance of true Grace when and where it is already begun then it were altogether impertinent and ineffectuall unto civill carnall Christians therefore doubtlesse it is and was intended by Christ for a converting Ordinance to all such as those Inference Whence we may infer That the Sacrament being a converting Ordinance may be given to all unregenerate persons in or out of the Church for if it be a converting Ordinance the consequence lies cleare that no sinners of any sort kind quality condition in or out of the Church ought to be denied it nay to have it administred as well without the Word as with it it being of equall power with the Word for converting as the Vindication faith and that who holds otherwise are mistaken And though there be a distinction premised of converting to the Faith or formall profession and a converting to a spirituall sincere Faith in Iesus Christ yet this distinction makes not any thing against the Sacrament to be given before the Word even for conversion to the first Faith or faith from Paganism which neither Scriptures nor practice of Christ or any Disciple of his from Apostles to the seventy and so down through any age to our own that ever I could read on practised and yet the principles laid down in Fol 38. will infer such a consequence naturally and truly for the Vindication saith in Fol. 38. That the Word and all Ordinances are alike for conversion and if so the Sacraments may be used as well to convert from Paganism and administred singly by themselves as the Word by it selfe may be taught Secondly The Vindication saith That it is doubtlesse to be given to all for else it had been an impertinent and ineffectuall thing to administer to close Hypocrises that are carnall Christians Whence we may infer That because the Counsels of the Lord in all his Administrations do not clearly appeare but through the Vindications of his own suppositions and premises therefore he concludes fully That it were impertinent and ineffectuall when as there appeares no such end at all in the institution of it but rather two other ends One which himselfe laies down as occasionall or evidentiall for the damnation and hardening some though I scarce allow him that that Ordinances of mercy and grace are properly active to condemnation The other which he never thinks on in his Book is this That God having left no infallible Rule for discerning hath ordered it by a pure Gospell-rule which if wicked men will come up to they hazzard greater condemnation Further we may infer That things may be called impertinent and ineffectuall which are instituted of the Lord when the reasons of the Lords Institution appeares not to us and that we may put our own suppositions and ends upon any administration in the Word when his ends are not cleare to us nay and conclude against any other end then that of our own conjecture or supposed probable reason which I am confident is too too grosse to be in the learned Author Intentionally though not consequentially in his Vindication But the ends which I clearly gather from the Analogie of things in Gods dispensation are these Why the Sacrament though according to the institution delivered to Hypocrites yet is no converting Ordinance God having left no infallible Rule of discerning his but only a Rule for outward evidences the Ordinances must either be administred to all walking according to the Rule of outward evidences or to none and according to that Rule Hypocrites may come in and do yet that is no sin to the Administrator nor Communicants so long as Administrations be ordered according to that Rule and Gods End of his revealed Will shewed Secondly The worke of sifting and reaping of dividing betwixt the Tares and the Wheat the Sheep and the Goats is the work of the great day of the Son of man and therefore though Ordinances be administred here to Hypocrites yet at the time of the finall discerning the communicating of Hypocrites shall be visited in judgement and greater condemnation upon them So as there is no need of framing it into any Notion of a converting Ordinance lest otherwise it prove impertinent or ineffectuall for if the close Hypocrites be finally impenitent ones God reckons for a greater sin if not yet it is no more impertinent then the Word is to all the children of God who yet never partake truly of it till converted Thirdly That the distinction of his into the first conversion from Papanism to Faith and secondly from a formall Faith to a true sincere Faith in Jesus Christ which is the corner Stone in his building is a distinction and certain degrees which we have not in any such Notion in the Word nor if it were doth it appeare that the Scriptures place administration upon the bottom of any such distinction though he doth it But suppose I grant it yet a formall profession then as he contends for and many other was not such as is now since Kingdoms were Christiaâ—ized but a profession then was according to the Rule of evidence till the contrary appeared as in all the first gathered Churches as in Simon Magus Ananias c. And formall profession then was as much as a kind of powerfull profession now for then it was persecution to take up an Ordinance or Name of Christ and now it is faction on the Law of the Land as well as the Law of the God to professe Christ neither were the whole Counsels of the Spirit of Christ brought forth then to make up the rule of evidences as afterwards but they were brought forth by degrees till the whole Scriptures of the New Testament were finished And we are now to take the whole Counsels of God concerning
with such power from heaven became it is not managed according to pure Gospell-order nor upon a people rightly prepared and fitted so as the fault is not because there is a Government as the Vindication observes but not the pure Government nor the Government rightly placed And for his Charge against the purer Congregations as I know not any such doings amongst them so I will make no Apologie for them because that would bring them within the compasse of something like a crime and I know nothing but well by them THE NEW QVAERES Folio 1. Of the Vindication propounded to the Honourable PARLIAMENT ASSEMBLY Quaere 1. VVHether a bare Excommunication or Suspension from the Sacrament not backed with Authority of the Civill Magistrate be not like to prove an impotent and invalid and ineffectuall meanes Whether it be not a far better way in point of Conscience and Prudence to admit scandalous persons to the Sacrament not actually excommunicated though they thereby eat and drinke judgement to themselves then to deprive any to whom it really belongs Antiquaere 1. Whether is there any excommunication or no For the Vindication questions it in calling it an invalid thing and if so How can any such thing be setled at all as an Ordinance in the Church Whether ought Authority to joyne it selfe with any thing so questionable as the Vindication would have it Since nothing hath proved more fatall Whether excommunication being granted be any such bare thing as the Vindication speaks on so impotent 〈…〉 and ineffectuall without being Authorized from a power from men And whether the Ministers are to strike with the Magistrates Sword Whether all the differences about Excommunication be not from the want of true Church-constitution And whether a Nationall Church be not too wide for the Ordinances and the Scabbard too big for the Sword And whether Solomons Temple and Christs be all of a largenesse so that one golden Reed will measure both Whether the old Temple that had Windowes of narrow Lights be any pattern for the new Whether any thing of Prudence As admitting scandalous persons to eat their owne damnation as the Vindication saith Rather then to deprive them to whom it really belongs be any Scripture-way of arguing which forbids us not to doe evill that good may come thereby Whether any sin or offence be committed in such cases of deprivation of scandalous persons seeing though it may really belong to them yet the Church nor Dispenser not knowing any such thing nor judging but only by the Rule of visible walking to the Word and the Rule of evidences there for Administration of Ordinances can faithfully administer but accordingly for they that walke according to this Rule peace be on them and on the Israel of God Whether the Law of God in this be not as equitable as the Law of Man which judges not of secrets nor takes cognizance of things unknown Whether it be not rather the scandalous persons only sin who if he have a reall interest will not live in the evidence of it nor walke by the Rule of Administrations that he may partake Quaere 2. Fol. 51. Whether the suspending such persons from the Sacrament being no Ordinance of Christ without a totall suspension will not be a meanes rather to harden And whether their admission be not rather a more probable way of reclayming being accompanied with serious Admonitions Exhortations publike and serious Reprehensions Reasons 1. Because that such persons are more hardned by it totall exclusion only working shame 2. Because against their receiving like Italians in Lent they will be holy for a day or two and make vows c. and may be so converted 3. Many then will read c. which would not do so before in an Hypocriticall conscience and the Sacrament is a Covenant which binds all receivers to reforme 4. The Sacraments are so accompanied with Examinations Exhortations c. that ten to one would be converted by such admonition rather then by suspention therefore Christ when he came to save sinners permitted them familiarly to him and his Ordinances Antiquaere 2. Whether Excommunication according to the Vindication grounds being a questionable Ordinance as well as suspention one of them may not be as well made use on as the other Suspention as well as Excommunication upon his grounds Whether the Admonitions Exhortations Reprehensions Examinations be such as Christ appointed to make the Sacrament an Ordinance for all scandalous sinners to come to or rather to quicken and spiritualize the worthy receivers who receive according to the visible Rule of Administrations as the whole straine of Scripture precept and practice speake Whether all the three first Reasons presuppose not such a Church-constitution for Ordinances and partakers as the Scriptures never speak on For where is there any such constituted Church of scandalous and Italianated persons who were constituted according to the Rule and for Corinth and the rest that had such bad Members they are not examples in that of gathering or constituting or administring but reforming as the Apostles who calls them to the rule of the Word This one mistake hath deceived many Whether Christ in permitting scandalous sinners to converse with him familiarly when he was here in the flest be any rule for admitting all such sinners now to the mystery of his spirituall Ordinances And whether there be not a spirituall difference betwixt Christ not offered and offered betwixt his conversing in the flesh for making up the mystery of Redemption and the mystery of Redemption made up and finished by the eternall Spirit in which he offered himselfe betwixt Christ in the flesh and in the Spirit or Ordinance Whether did Christ intend his ordinary or occasionall converting to be any rule for his Church or Kingdome in its Administrations or Ordinances which is a worke of another forme And whether this intermingling of carnall and spirituall notions be a Scripture-way Whether ought we to force any consequences or inferences upon the Word for practise in administrations in things neither clearly nor intentionally for ought we see nor mystically directed appointed or instituted by Christ And whether such a ground once granted will not let in one kind of will-worship as well as another And for that ten to one being converted so as he sayes Quere Whether it is not ten to one any will be a converted but rather hardned Quere 3. Fol. 53. Whether did Christ ever intend that none but true believers should receive his Supper or did he not infallibly know that many unregenerate and impenitent should and would receive it And the Antagonists grant that close Hypocrites have an external right then if these why not others Christ having ordained the Sacrament of the Supper as well as the Word to be a savour of death to such and God hath his end in both the glory of his Justice in the one as well as of his Grace and Mercy in the other Antiquaere Whether
him and walked with and counted as his Some beleeved not the Holy-Ghost nor Christs Baptism and were zealous of the Law and yet the Disciples counted them as Beleevers Johns Disciples would have followed Iohn only but Iohn sent two of them to Christ at one time and told them againe he must increase but himselfe must decrease Christ in his time would not forbid any that went about in his Name There is none that doth any thing in my Name can lightly speak evill of me When the Spirit was given the Disciples bore one another out of the Church as the Beleevers of Iohns Baptisme and the zealots of the Law and one another in the Church they that did eat them that did not eat and they that regarded a day them that regarded not a day walking together as far as they attained by the same rule 16 No despising for too much learning or too little Let not one despise another for gifts parts learning let the Spirit be heard speak in the meanest let not the Scribe or Disputer of the Law despise the Fishermen nor they despise them because Scribes and Disputers The Spirit is in Paul as well as Peter in both as well as one 17 We may be in one Christ though divers Consider that we may be one in one Christ though we thinke diversly and we may be Friends though not Brethren and let us attaine to Vnion though not to Unity 18 The spirituall Persecution to be forborne Consider there is a twofold Persecution There is a spirituall or that of Beleevers and a mixt Persecution or civilly Ecclesiasticall The spirituall Persecution is that of the Spirit meerly and this kind of Persecution little thought on and studied this is when we cannot be are one anothers severall Opinions or soul-belief in the same spirituall Society or fellowship but they must either be of us or out of us and surely this kinde of Persecution is as unreasonable as any other for what is this but soul-compulsion when another must only beleeve as we beleeve and not wait till the Lord reveale even this This kind of spirituall compulsion will in time breake and dissolve the visible Communion of Saints and Body of Christ exceedingly if taken up or continued and it will be amongst Christians as amongst the Antichristians where they divide and subdivide and some cast themselves into a Monkery from all the rest Ierusalem and Antioch were not of this way to cast out one another upon such grounds but to meet reason and counsell and heare And surely the Churches can ill complaine of a mixt persecution from without if they persecute one another from within the Magistrate may as justly whip them both as they whip one another Such grudgings complainings dissolvings spirituall inforcings gives hint to the Civill power to compell while it beholds them but a little more spiritually coâ—pâ—lling one another Let all Church-rights priviledges boundaries be preserved all Heresie and Schism by the rule rebuked but in all spirituall meeknesse and wisdome and not call Heretick and Schismatick too suddenly since we see but in part THE UNWARRANTABLE WAY OF PEACE Or The Antichristian Designe of Reconciliation 1 To beleeve as the Church or Councels THat all should beleeve as the Church beleeves and this Church is the great Councels of Bishops Cardinals c as if the souls of all were to be saved only in the bundle of theirs as if they could beleeve both enough for themselves and all others 2 To set up one as the Pope for infallibilitie Because there may be difference amongst many and all may not agree therefore there shall be one say they with the Vrim and Thummim one infallibly decreeing and interpreting and unerring to whom the Spirit of Truth is successively derived and his determinations interpretations shall be finall conclusive and this that Vicar of Christ the Pope this one way in the Antichristian State and all Reformed Kingdomes were once under this Peace 3 To allow that all may be saved in their severall wayes Because there be severall Beleevers and severall interpretations and opinions one saying This is the way and another That therefore say some All in all wayes may be saved every one beleeving every thing Now this is one way to make peace but not the way there is but one Lord one Faith one Baptisme 4 To forbid Interpretings and Disputes Because several opinions arise by interpretings and disputings about Scripture therefore all openings of the Word all disputings must be forborne Because the Sun-shine offends some weak sight in the house shut up doores and windowes and make all dark Thus the Papists and Prelats in forbidding Scriptures and Marginall Notes and thus fearing there may be somthing false they will heare nothing that 's true 5 By a compulsive power Some take the Civill power in to make peace reckoning a compulsive Vniformitie for Vnity Peace and Truth This is one way to deale with the body indeed but not with the soul to mind the outward man but not the inward This way of Civilly Ecclesiasticall peace is the Antichristian designe who having got the Kings of the Nations to give their strength and power and Kingdome unto them supplies that from the world which they want from the Word making the spirituall power of Iesus Christ to receive its honour life efficacie power from the power of men This way of peace is such as hath by experience troubled Nations and troubled it self at length too and broken it self against that way which it aimed to breake For whosoever fals upon this stone shall be broken and on whomsoever it shall fall it shall breake them to powder THE OPINIONS OF THESE TIMES With the Exceptions each Opinion may be charged withall being the great Argument for Love Meeknesse and Forbearance one to another or of Peace and Reconciliation till the Lord reveale more Presbyterie So called What it is and what they hold THe Presbyterie is set up by an alleadged Patern of the Eldership and Presbyterie of the Apostles and Elders in the first Churches of the Gospell strengthened by such Scriptures as are in the margin and by allusion to the Jewish Government and to appeals in Nature Their Churches are Parochial or Parishes as they are divided at first by the Romish Prelates and the Statute-Laws of the State Which Parishes and Congregations are made up of such Beleevers as were made Christians first by Baptisme in Infancie and not by the Word And all the Parishes or Congregations are under them as they are a Classicall Provinciall and Nationall Presbyterie And over those Parishes they doe exercise all Church-power and Government ‖ which may be called The power of the Keyes Exceptions 1. THe Apostolicall and Primitive Eldership were not so authoritative over their Congregations as these pretend nor so compulsive or forcing their respective Congregations 2. The Apostolicall Eldership and Presbyterie were more ‖ infallible
they were more in the light and the immediate way of the revelation of Truth 3. They tooke not in the power of the Magistrate to help them nor did they clasp it as one with their own 4. They consisted of ‖ Brethren as well as of the Presbyterie and both together had a joynt interest and concurrencie in all power 5. The Presbyteries were not as now Classicall Provinciall Nationall these are no Scripture-forms but devises of men 6. The Presbyterie is of no more in the Greek then of a ‖ metaphorical or figurative signification signifying Seniority or Eldership and the setting it up in a notion of power and office is more then the Scriptures will clearly beare such Notions in the Word are but Notions of form and order not of Office 7. The Presbyteries now are not rightly constituted because they consisted of a Ministery from Antichrist and the Bishops of Rome ordaining one another by the same power they received from them 8. Their ‖ Congregations are not such as before so constituted because Parishes are of a Popish and politick constitution 9. Baptisme is not to be received by Generation now as Circumcision was but by Regeneration or visible Profession as at first Nor are the carnall seed now any more children of Abraham but the ‖ Faithfull And no Ordinance is now to be administred upon legall consequence but upon Gospell-precept Independancy So called What it is and what they hold THe people of God are only a Church when called by the Word and Spirit into Consent or Covenant and Saints by profession and all Church-power is laid in here and given out from hence into Pastorship and Elders c. and a just distribution of Interest betwixt Elders and People All spirituall Government is here and not in any power forreigne or extrinsecal to the Congregation or authoritative Their children are made Christians first by Infant-baptisme and after by the Word and they are baptized by a foederal or Covenant-holinesse or Birth-priveledges as under the Law They may enjoy all Ordinances in this estate and some may Prophesie Exceptions 1. THat there is not such a power radically or fundamentally placed in the Church to make Pastors and Elders c. because there is first no such practice in the Word but rather of an Apostolicall or Ministeriall power which made or gathered Churches first not Churches them 2. The Eldership and Presbitery of Apostles and Elders did principally act and authoritatively act and not the whole Church or people they in a lower and lesse Interest in a way of choyce or vote and consent 3. That which is called Ordination c. was by the Apostles and a power established in the Presbitery not in the Church as meer Beleevers 4. They that were Baptized by an Antichristian power are no right Baptized Members of Churches and yet so are all of their Churches as were Baptized under Prelacie the power of the dispenser being Antichristian and the subject or Infant no visible Beleever for that Ordinance 5. Their Church consists not all of visible Saints or Beleevers according to their own Principle for their children being baptized and in that condition are no actuall visible Saints all their Church are not living stones nor visibly holy And it may be more cleerly proved that meer civill and morall men are rather to be admitted of their Church-society then such as children are who are but meerly naturally visible neither spiritually civilly nor morally visible 6. That of foederal holynesse in 1 Cor. 7. 14. is only to satisfie a scruple that if Vnbeleeving made wife or husband unholy it made children unholy too and so both or none must be put away 7. There is no carnall seed now to be sealed Christ being come in the flesh which flesh before had a Seale of Circumcision but there is no such externall priviledge now by any such right 8. All Consequences drawn from Circumcision are of no more force then from the cloud and the Sea and the rocke and Noah's Arke and other typicall and figurative places in the Word nor can any legall or probable Scriptures make any Law or Rule for any such Gospell-administration which is not directly and in Scripture-words to be found 9. Childrens Baptisme in the Church is a way never to have a Church of such Baptized Beleevers as in the Apostles times 10. Baptisme being a visible signe cannot rationally be administred upon one that cannot see nor discern what is done to whom the water can be no signe but they are only told of it when they come to age and how can it hold proportion with Circumcision when as that was a mark remaining in the flesh when they came to age to signifie to them But water is like a flash of lightning which must be taken by the Beleever in that quick and vanishing act or else it hath no sensible efficacy to which it was instituted nor doth the Beleever thus any other way enjoy it but by way of History or a thing past and done which he never saw Baptisme is as a flash of lightning as it is well observed by one Circumcision was as a fixed Star so much difference in these two Rites 11. Institution of Baptisme is to duty as well as grace which children cannot perform and so answer the signe 12. Institution of Baptisme is doctrinall in the very act of it as is acknowledged by all the present Baptism Matth. 28. Baptizing them in the Name of the Father Son and Holy Ghost c. Now this implies a capable and teachable subject 13. Their Churches are not distinct from other Societies Antichristian because there is no visible gifts by which their Churches are visibly qualified from any other Societies and according to the promises of gifts in Ephes 4. 11. nor no such Church-gifts as in 1 Cor. 12. c. where there was the gifts of the Spirit powerfully and visibly spiritualizing that body and making it to excell all other bodies civill or Antichristian And that Prophesie was a more extraordinary gift then is now any where in the Churches Anabatisme So called What it is and what they hold THe Church of Christ are a Company of baptized Beleevers and whatsoever Disciple can teach the Word or make out Christ may baptize or administer other Ordinances That the Church or Body though but of two or three yet may enjoy the Word and Ordinances by way of an Administrator or one deputed to administer though no Pastor That none are to be baptized but Beleevers That those commonly called Church-Officers as Pastors c. are such as the Church or Body may be without That none are to be called Brethren but baptized Beleevers All administrations of Ordinances were given to the Apostles as Disciples not so under the notion
experementally known 15. These Scriptures we have as they are do make a Discovery of such a way of Religion as reason never yet in any age attained to The men of purest reason as your old Philosophers never attained further then the knowledge of something infinite which they did not know and a Religion of humane or morall righteousnesse and purity and some sacrifices of atonement c. And there is not any Religion in the world Jewish or Turkish but they are made up of carnall principles and are founded upon reason and nature but this Gospell Religion hath opened a new way of righteousnesse in one that is both God and Man in a most rationall though infinite way of salvation and a way of Worship crosse to all methods and wates of reason and the world opening new waies by a new Spirit purifying naturall reason into more divine and glorious notions then ever it yet attained bringing in a way of beleeving and placing a Religion upon a spirituall perswasion called Faith which is more proportionable to an infinite God and an infinite way and depth of salvation then reason ever invented viz. for the soule to beleeve upon one even Jesus Christ in whom God hath laid up all love and fulnesse and so for man to become one with him who is God and Man and there cannot be a more rationall way for man to become one with God then by one who is both God and Man 16. That though there be not such glorious powrings out of Spirit and such gifts as Beleevers both may and shall have yet all Beleevers ought to practice so far of the outward Ordinance as is clearly revealed they may 17. That the Scriptures or Gospell of the New Testament being as many hundred years old as from the Apostles even in that Originall we have them no very materiall differences in Copies as it seems and though they have passed through the great Apostacy yet they have not had the power to corrupt them materially in their Originall to advantage their heresies and corruptions which very constant preservation of Truth in the midst of the very Enemies of Truth is both a constant and standing miracle of it selfe and so we need not stay for a Ministery with miracle being we have a Word with miracle which in its matter subject power speaking of God of his Son God and Man of his Spirit the Actor in man from both by waies of outward Ordinances of the depths windings and workings of reason c. is of as much efficacy to perswade as any thing else we can have and the way of the pure Spirit is a more glorious way of operation then any other of a visible sensuall nature And God may be more glorified by quickning and spiritualizing a word and using the spiritually glorious Ministery of that then of man and they are far too low who look for their originall teaching from man and not from the Word and Spirit CONCLUSION I Have drawne out this map of each opinion that your eye may travell over that in an houre which otherwise you might be a yeare in going over Thus each are discovered in a narrow yet full Discovery and I thinke all that are divinely rationall will see no such cause to thinke that each hath attained so far that either they should presume in their degree or look down from the pinacle of an infallibilitie upon each other I have set the strength and weaknes of each opinion before it self that on the one side as it may glory so on the other side it may fear and be humble All I wish now is that we be all so far one at least in infirmity and this Common weaknesse as may be a ground of Common embodying and associating against the Common Enemy or Grand Antichrist as in States when they are at lowest have least factions and when weakest are most peaceable with one another The Gospell or New Testament of JESUS CHRIST proved undeniably to be the very Word of God without Miracles to assure us of the particular duties in it Because there are some men now of more reason then sound belief I cannot but in a spirituall rationally way beare witnesse to our salvation in the written Word 1. IF there were not a Word or Will of God revealed in Lawes and Ordinances written God were worse provided then the Lawgivers of Nations and Kingdomes and the World were left to their owne wils which is esteemed ridiculous in the eyes of all the Nations of the world in their very politick condition 2. The Laws and Ordinances contained in the Word or New Testament beare only the Image of a God in their holinesse purity righteousnesse glory infinitenesse eternity immortality which are all with many more things of like excellency there which are as the beams of light to the Sun or so many things of God revealing God 3. The Word is so tempered into a middle nature betwixt God and man as no Word can be more revealing the most glorious spirituall infinite things from a God in a meane literall figurative comparative significative way to man 4. To have a standing Word as the Gospell is is more for the glory and authority of a God then any ministry of man though with miracles and signs because such a Word where none can joyn themselves as Authors or Parties as in other wayes of dispensation by men men may joyne themselves doth undoubtedly hold forth most of God and of divine Authority and thus to maintaine or preserve a Law or Word in the world is not so much with God as for King and Princes to maintaine Statutes and Lawes in their Kingdomes 5. A Word as the New Testament is may be as well a way and dispensation to an infinite God to make out himself by as any other either of dreame or vision or Revelation or Oracle all being but wayes of a naturall straine and condition no more then the Word 6. The very manner of dispensation or writing is such as hath the authority power wisedome counsels of a God the whole businesse of it being a work discovered to be begun by God and amongst men to let forth the glory of God the mercy love and wisdome of God and the way by the Son of God and Spirit of God and all to be glorified with God and thus treating only of things divine and a work divine in a way divine 7. We must either give up our selves to this Word wholly or not at all and then let the world and experience judge what kind of Religion reason at large unbounded or unenlightened will bring forth by the former paterns of Heathenish and Gentilish Religion 8. Why should it not be thought the most clean and direct way for God to manifest himself to man by Word Gospell and Epistle and so by an infinite and invisible power and hand commend and conveigh it from age to age from generation to generation as well as for men to make out
their art reason knowledge experience into books and words written to their owne and other generations 9. This Gospell of Iesus Christ places Religion upon a more glorious transcendent way to sute with an infinite God then ever any device of man or reason could invent viz. upon faith upon a beleeving or spirituall perswasion wrought by the same God by which men are carried out into depths of infinitenesse and glory no way measurable nor discernable but by this way of beleeving and there could never have been an engine contrived which could have gone from man into God but this of faith by God himself nor more for the advantage of the glory of a God taking all from the creature employing it wholly upon a God 10. There is more reason in this Gospell or New Testament in the way of Religion which it holds forth by Iesus Christ then ever could be thought on by the reason of man as for instance Each mans internall conscience hath a light or law in it which condemnes or accuseth for murther c. Now if there be accusations against whom is the offence committed but against somthing infinite and what way is there more divinely rationall to apply to the justice of such an infinite being on God offended but by one who is both man and God even Iesus Christ So as the mystery of salvation is such as even reason it self cannot contradict or gainsay though it cannot comprehend to leave the world inexcusable in their unbeliefe because it commands them to beleeve in one whom in reason they cannot deny to be a way proportionable betwixt God and themselve for salvation 11. It carries things in such a rare way of mercy of justice of love of piety and as it is a salvation from God to man so it is a salvation managed by one who is God and Man and every thing belonging to it is accordingly mixed or tempered of Word and Spirit of power divine and outward dispensation or ordinance and all this for man who is of a mixed nature of flesh and spirit Thus things are carried in a way of proportion and sutablenesse so full so sutable and compleat and serviceable as the invention of men could never devise 12. It discovers reason to it self in all its workings and wayes in its purity and corruption in its vertues and vices conscience bearing witnesse to the Laws and Commandements of it it purifies and spiritualizeth reason and brings it into such a way of communion with God as the souls that reade it and are exercised in it seem to be new-borne to receive in another nature an immortall and incorruptible seed 13. It manages all the designe of salvation contrary to nature and the world upon contrary principles dispensations and hands by a Person poore humble and crucified for the good by Ministers and Dispensers meane and contemptible Fisher-men Tradesmen c. yet inspired by graces contrary as selfe-deniall humility love to enemies by conditions contrary as weaknesse affliction poverty suffering dying carrying a treasure a comfort a riches a life a glory under all these 14. It is accompanied by continued or standing miracles though miracles of a more spirituall nature as discovery of the counsels and hearts of men as conversion from sin mortification of sin changing natures from evill to good planting in new dispositions inclinations affections into the soul Now if such charges and conversions were in materiall or sensible things as from water to bloud from water to wine how would it astonish Which in spirituals in more wonderfull though only lesse discernable and not to be so sensibly perceived preserved by its very enemies the Roman cruelty of Emperours and Antichristian Traditions 15. It refers the discovery of all Truth in it self to the Spirit of God which no word but the Word of God would do and will not take in men into glory with it self which miracles do which are done by the hand and ministry of man and the Spirit in this way must needs be a more glorious Interpreter of the Will of God then the meer ministery by man and miracles can be by how much it is of a more spirituall nature and it is more excellent to seek things in the Spirit then in any outward dispensation which as it comes more immediately from God so it comes in more immediately upon men and to take in Truth by sense and sight or miracle is rather to know Christ after the flesh 16. Yet after all the Word it self is the best way to bring in evidence and discovery in its 〈◊〉 half to the souls of those that will come under the power â—peâ—atâ—on and experiments of it under the enlightening convictions impressions of it in the reading hearing and meditating of it These things are written that ye may beleeve And they that are thus exercised are above all miracle and are perswaded enough by it self without the help of an outward work 17. To these I adde the testimonies of the most ancient in witnesse of it Dionysius Areopagita thought to live in the times of the Apostles and not daring to take his Divinity any where but from these Scriptures Irenaeus who was in the yeare 180 affirming the fulnesse of these Gospell-Scriptures and accounted them the Pillar of Truth So Tertullian who lived 1400 years since doth accordingly witnesse to their perfection Origen Athanasius Chrysostome Constantine the Great in the first Nicene-Councell with thousands others all along to our own age 18. The Iewes whose very Testament and condition answers to every Prophesie and Gospel-Scripture 19. The many of those most eminently ancient learned and godly who have shed their bloud in testimony of it 20. The power of God going along with it 21. The Confessions of the most learned in that confesse that the Originall Copies are not corrupted but continued pure One Argument from the Nationall Covenant for Liberty of Conscience yet with all subordinate and just obedience to the State ART I. THe first Branch of the Covenant is That we shall sincerely really and constantly c. endeavour c. the Reformation of Religion in the Kingdoms of England c. in Doctrine Worship Discipline and Government according to the Word of God c. ART II. The second Branch of the Covenant That we shall in like manner without respect of persons endeavour the extirpation of Popery c. Superstition Heresie Schism c. and whatsoever shall be found contrary to sound Doctrine c. Now from these I argue 1. Each one is personally and individually bound by the Covenant and in his owne proper conscience is obliged to endeavour a Reformation according to the Word of God and so far to the example of the best Reformed Churches as they are agreeable to that Word I hope no further Now who shall be the Iudge and Interpreter of this Word of God to each mans conscience in the things of God but he who is Lord of the conscience
it self mix with Religion where Churches are Nationall And how can I speake properly but to both where both are in interest For my suggestion of a suspition of haste you know words and phrases are not the same to all one may interpret thus another thus I had no thought of Jehu's driving as you imply when I wrote I must lay the supposed crime at your owne doors for it is none of mine nor have I nor any reason to tax that Honourable Senate whose Counsels are grave and serious and deliberate Had I lookt for Jehu I should have lookt to another coast and quarter where they drive more furiously Why deale you not more candidly Why are you not more faithfull in your interpretation to the Originall For that of my taxing the Ministers for desiring power none have reason to speak but the guilty it concernes not the innocent It is not strange for some Ministers to affect Government or rather ruling we have so much of Prelacie yet left and working in the Countrey with us and if not in the City too I refer you to Master Coleman For the word rendred from the Originall metaphorically I quoted only the Text to my remembrance to the Printers hand and how he came by the metaphor I know not but I find fault as well as you However to make the best of it now translations of Scripture are not all Grammaticall as you know nor to the letter as I could wish them with you For Artificiall Colours or Rhetorioall c. You make me guilty of such vernish as I have not laid on to my knowledge nor have much to lay on if I would Truth and Peace which were my subjects are faire enough of themselves without any colour of mine And I desire not to bring forth either but in the evidence and demonstration of the spirit and if there be any thing of their own beauty there call it not artificiall put not suspitions and jealousies into any that such things as they see are not so to make men Sceptâ—call It is as much injury to Truth and Peace to misreport them as to counterfeit them And for your logicall marshalling my reasons I thank you you took more pains with them then I would doe Notionall order I received them in Nor dare I be too logicall and notionall in things divine Systems and formes of art have done our Divinity some harm Such Classes and methods of reason have been found too strait for the more spirituall enlargements of truth Yet I honour your Learning though I thus speake Master Ley's Resolution Page 9 10. His first reason taken from Rules of Faith Rom. 4. 3 13 c. Now he should have planted his reason directly against the imposing a Government rather then obedience to it as thus c. Those that set up a Government which they are not fully perswaded on sin But they that now set up Church-Government with power c. doe set up a Government whereof they are not fully perswaded on Therefore in so doing they sin The major is true but the minor not because of their faithfull learned Counsellors and Scripture-discussings Reply Since you will help me to prove you are welcome You have furnished me with one Argument more You are a fair enemy to lend out your own weapon And now you have made your Argument half for me I shall make the other half my self You say What the imposers of Government cannot doe in Faith is sin This is your half Argument But you take it for granted Our imposers of Government are not such but such as are fully perswaded and can set up the Government in faith and you prove it thus from those of their Counsellors so near them and from their Scripture-discussions First I know not what Counsellors you mean but they are too wise a Senate to be carried by any interest but their owne and I wish them no other Counsellors then Truth and Peace nor doe I know that they are so fully perswaded of any such Government I beleeve some of them are not so fully principled for your way and then they all are not perswaded so of the Government nor have you yet been able to make out the evidence of every truth you presented them from cleare Scriptures saving your Art of deductions and consequences and prudence and if all cannot be perswaded that State-conscience or Publike conscience is not so wholly nor fully perswaded then as you imply a State or Publike conscience is like a Particular conscience which if it doth not wholly consent is doubtfull or weake for it is not in Spirituall things as in Civill Votes of major parts make laws and they stand good from any such forms of Policie but I never yet saw that rule in the Gospell for any such proceedings in spirituall things but that is a Law in Christs Kingdome not that which is voted so but that which is so in the truth of it For else Popery were the best for it hath most voices and counsels So as unlesse you can prove the Parliament to be of one minde in it how can you prove a Parliament so fully perswaded in minde as you imply Let them prove a Truth by most voices that please or can but I wish the businesse of a State-conscience in a thing of this nature were more enquired into then yet it hath been But if the Parliament were fully perswaded of the truth of the Government yet there would be a new question yea and is very learnedly discussed by our worthy Brethren Master Coleman and the Commissioner how they could be perswaded of the imposing and power of setling For my part if there must be an imposing of Government for I would have the State-consciences left to their liberty as well as Particular and yet Truth to have the liberty of accesse unto them I would have the power of the Parliament laid up there we have had too sad experience when it hath been given out from thence and trusted too far Paul referred himselfe thither I stand saies he at Cesar's Judgement-seat rather then to the Councell of the Priests and Elders Christ had more favour from Pilate a Roman Governor then from Caiaphas the Priest One word more How can the Parliament properly be said to be fully perswaded c. unlesse they could freely signe it with a Jus divinum or divine Right Nothing but Scripture and the Word can properly fully perswade Now if they cannot find so much Scripture as to warrant it for Christ's Goverment how can there be a purely Gospell-warrantable a full perswasion or faith where there wants a word of faith to secure it And now I shall forme your Argument you halfe made to my hand thus and return another with usury Your Argument is this Those that set up a Government which they cannot be fully perswaded on cannot but sin But the Parliament cannot be fully perswaded of this Government Therefore if they set it up they cannot but
is no better then the first 3. Prove the other Reformed Kingdoms to be Reformed Churches as Churches are taken in the Gospel and their Paterns pure Gospel-paterns which by your owne you acknowledge to be in part prudential or humane as well as Evangelical and Divine and then your reason may have some force in it Till then you see with all you can doe you cannot prove but Christs government was divers years in bringing forth by himself and his Apostles and so by your owne account you ought not to be before them unlesse you assume fuller Revelations of truth then they did Let the Reader judge whether any of these makes for the setting up your government or the taking down my reasons To your last That this Reformation hath proceeded by slow paâ—es and degrees What Would you prove it by its slow proceedings to be Christs Government and therefore to be setled That were a strange kind of reasoning Because Christ proceeded by degrees in giving out the glory of his Kingdom here therefore every thing that proceeds by degrees is Christs Government Here is some kind of Logick indeed as you say but no Scripture as for instance He that saies such a one is a living creature saies truly He that saies such a one is a beast saies he is a living creature Therefore will it follow He that saies such a one is a beast saies truly So He that saies Christs Government proceeded slowly saies truly He that saies your government proceeded slowly saies truly Therefore He that saies your government is Christs government saies truly What have you got now by your Logick Whereas you say in your second Christ gave gifts and qualifications for government I answer If you and your Parishes have such gifts and qualifications as in Ephes 4. 1 Cor. 12. set it up when you please if not what haste Master Ley's Resolution Pag. 26 27. Now to his Rules and Considerations of Prudence The more time saith he for trying spirits the lesse danger to that State c. I answer 1. It is the duty of a State not only to try spirits but to rule them And rather to rule them then to trie them Prov. 29. 15. and the longer they live without the yoke of Discipline the more enormous And for trying all things there is a due proportion of time to be observed Though it hath been the ill hap of our Chureh c. to have the government fluttering on the lime twig at Westminster when it should be on the wing of actuall execution all over the Kingdom 2. He makes it a dangerous matter for the State to involve it selfe into the designes of Ecclesiasticall power But unseasonably applyed to Presbyteriall-government because both Popish and prelaticall power is abjured by it by covenant 3. Whereas he saith There can be no danger in the not too sudden incorporating c. since Moses is not alive c. a new star may arise It is a groundlesse conceit refuted already and for that of Moses c. he bâ—wrayeth his designe to debarre the government for ever and for that of a new star arising it prepares the way for some Barchochebas who pretending to be Jacobs Star mislead the Jews and was called Benchozba the son of a lye Reply You prove against me 1. That people ought to be ruled rather then tried c. 2. That sometime is to be allowed for triall 3. That the government hath been fluttering too long at Westminster 4. That there is no danger to feare the Presbyteriall government which hath abjured Popery c. Dominion by Covenant 5. That some of this is refuted already 6. That my designe is to debarre it for evâ—â— 7. That a new Star is a misleading star To your first I reply It is true in civill government rule there rather then trie But what is that to Church-government or Discipline The rule there is the will of God which is the only rule in government and legislative power in the Church and that is Trie all things before either you rule or be ruled To your second Some time you will allow I see for triall but you ought not to measure and deale out time but by the Standard of the Word and before you call for such quick obedience as you do and as the Apostles did prove your power and truth and conclusions and by such Apostolicall and infallible evidence and then it is our sin if we submit not And let the time you deale out not be like that of States and Armies in their Treaties who are finall and peremptory in the seasons they set You cannot set such time the Spirit breaths when and were it listeth To your third What is that to the present Discipline what the Covenant abjures Covenant and Discipline are two distinct things a Covenant may abjure in word what yet a government may practice indeed Nor is it enough to abjure Popery in grosse but in every part parcell And now having abjured it is not enough to sit down in that satisfaction that we have sworn against Popery but to search out lest we be forsworn in the practice of it Such a duty begins from the time of abjuring and it lies not only upon the State to find out Popery but every one in his own particular is ingaged you and I and every Covenanter and therefore seeing you have ingaged thousands by conscience against Popery and to endeavour c. you are bound to give the same conscience liberty to bring in its result and enquiry else you make it a snare and trouble to Israel and not a Covenant And now I professe here a just and undeniable liberty by Covenant to bring forth all of Popery Prelacy or truth they know To your other Why should ye speak of governments fluttering on a lime-twig at Westminster Sure the State or Parliament may deserve better of any of the Assembly then to be thought their retarders or lâ—me twigs How have they honoured them above their Brethren printing their ingagements to the world before every Sermon calling them into so neere a capacity with themselves though Divines have been unfortunate before and their Predecessours raised in the curtesie and piety of former States and Parliaments into a Law and power above their Brethren which I hope our Brethren will remember and beware of But because I would not wholly interpret you into so dangerous a sense against the State it may be you may call your dissenting Brethren the lime-twig which if you do you are contrary to your own Argument for you argued but lately the slow proceeding into a very warrantable and Scripture-way and will you now marâ—all and defile your Argument with a lime-twig and bewray rather your slow proceeding to have been of constraint then conscience To your other That this is already refuted I say no more but as you have formerly refuted so I have formerly answered To your other That my designe by that of Moses is to
in the Church And for our plucking it is not plucking but gathering and calling out Your words are of more violence then the Word will beare that is more properly plucking which is a destructive pulling out a bloudy Separation a plucking of Persecution such a plucking as some contend for and would requite our gathering with plucking and take us all not for a mixture of Tares and Wheat but all for Tares You say we gather out the Wheat it is well you observe that we have Wheat amongst us which some of your Brethren will searce allow us and you very hardly Master Ley's Resolution pag. 29 30 31. His other politike consideration is this Our Parties or dissenting Brethren now together and clasped by Interest c. I answer 1. No clasping in the Camp must loose us to division in the Citie 2. Mr. Saltmarsh in his Politike adviseth to represse factions c. 3. The delay hath occasioned a multiplication of Heresies and Schisms 4. Many disposed to division heighten their spirits to contumacie and contempt To that other of his it is possible while time is given opinions may be sooner at peace I answer 1. Possibility is no pleae against probability nay cleare experience that by the Brethrens amiable carriage they have driven on their designe with a politike activitie and gained more by their adversaries slownesse than the goodnesse of their cause To that of his Fire let alone under wood and so to dye out c. I answer 1. Will fire under drie wood quench it selfe or the setling of a Government be as the Bellows 2. The contrarie is plaine by examples of Anabaptists and other Sectaries in Germany whom Luther at first mediated for with Frederick Duke of Saxony but after he was glad to stir up the Princes and people of Germany for extinguishing a common combustion To that of his c. The contentions of Brethren are like the Bars of a Caestle Prov. 18. 19. I answer 1. This is his seale to his politike Aphorisaâ— But will the bars of a Caestle be taken by letting alone We have not found it so in our wars c. Reply To your first That we must not claspe in the Camp and divide in the city You say well we are to agree or clasp both in Camp and Citie and to divide in neither To your second Mr. Saltmarsh in his Politikes I told you before I dare not allow my selfe the priviledge of an Aphorism of light then when it was rather night than day with me as I told you You know Pauls regenerate part or law of his mind quarrelled with the law of his Members so doth mine so Luther Augustine c. To that of delaying occasioning Heresies Whether may not your setling things thus be as great an Heresie as you complaine against Be sparing You may call these Truths which you now call Heresies Paul preached that Doctrine after which before he destroyed To that of many heightning their spirits into contempt Do not aggravate against your Brethren remember your own professed ingenuity in these words I would not excite Authority to needlesse severitie To that of the Brethrens politike advantage on your slow pace and amicable carriage as you say Give not over your amicablenesse for that their policie is no warrant against your dutie and if they be politike blame them in print For my part I hate to see in any too much of man in the businesse of God but if some of the Brethren be politike what is that to the rest who waite for the Spirit in the simplicity of their own But it may be you mistake the advantages and put their encreasing upon Brethrens policie which is the power of the Gospell You know in Christs time many beleeved on him and the people went after him and yet not policie but his power gathered them To that of your fire and drie wood and that your setling a Government would be no bellows Who are the dry wood you meane and what fire and what by the bellows I fit be this that the setling a Government will quench our contentions yea and it may quench more then it ought even something of the Spirit may be quenched by it Persecution may put out many a Candle of the Lords lighting and many a coale kindled from his Altar But take heed there be not more fire in the bellows then in the wood To that of the Anabaptists and Sectaries quenched by Luthers mediation I dare not beleeve your Historian nor take all against them from the Pen of an enemie He that takes the Parliaments battells from an Oxford Pen shall read nothing but Rebellion rather than Religion And me thinks I observe much here in your observation to the contrary We may rather think that Germany is a field of bloud to this day for shedding the bloud of so many consciences for some points of difference And for Luthers mediation against them Look well and tell me how much the Lutheran there have advanced in the Reformation Have they not rather stood like Joshua's Sun where he left them Let England take warning by Germany To that of the Brethrens contentions which are like bars of a Castle and must not then be let alone you say as in our Wars Yea go on take these offended Brethren these Castles in your military way but then let your Warfare be spirituall your weapons not carnall put on the armour of light c. and take them by a Gospel-siege and we are satisfied But it you take them with the power of the Magistrate with swords and staves as they took Christ if you come in this Gospel-Controversie to to take them as the Parliament takes in their Towns and Cities by force of Arms and compulsive Artillery as your instance seems to imply take heed lest you shed more spirituall bloud to that under the Altar that never ceases to cry How long Lord how long Master Ley's Resolution Page 32. To that he saith We have not yet any experience of our new Clergy Answ How can there bee experience of them if there be no government to try them withall Reply So as you will have an hazard run both in State and Church for a new experiment upon the Ministers but sure your Statists will tell you it is not safe trying experiments with State they are too vast bodies for that What thinke you of that Physician that will cast his Patent into a disease to try a cure on him You know the old morall adagie Turpius ejicitur quam non admittitur hospes One is sooner kept out then cast out Master Ley's Resolution Page 32. To that It is not safe trusting a power too far into those hands Answer He need not much feare the government will be so qualified so disposed for the persons that manage it c. Reply These are faire promises It is pitty that government should ever be set up that cannot tell before hand how well it will carry it selfe Oh I
We are not of those that speake evill of dâ—gâ—iâ—ies or despâ—se government unlesse you count your Presbyterie to be that government and dignitie spoken on by the Spirit and that remaines to be proved That which cannot be proved to be a Scripture-government cannot challenge a Scripture-law to defend or secure it You say If the Byas run most towards government it is but as it should be Yea if towards a Scripture-government else it is as it should not be and not as it should be You say The Bishops government 's put down some must be set up and that is Presbytery But there is one set up already a civill Parliament arie government and will you set up another above that or cordinate with that Will you set up one government to rule another or tutour another And must you needs set up as large a Dominion as the eivâ—ll Power hath Must our Presbytery be full as ample as high and supream as our Parliament Will no lesse territory or Kingdom serve it but all England Whole Nations Must Christs government be just as broad and long as the worlds You find not the golden Read for the Temple of that length Now Reader judg which government affects Dominion Which brings in whole Nations under the Scepter of it Poore Scripture-government can be content to sit down in a Village To the Church in thy house saith the Spirit In a City as Corinth and over but a few there the Saints only in fellowship to the Church in Corinth In a Countrey not over a Countrey so the seven Churches in Asia not to the Church of Asia or the Church Asia a Church taking in halfe part of the world Sure if Christ would have had such a Nationall compreliensive Church he could have converted King and Princes first and they should have given up their Scepterâ— and Kingdoms to Jesus Christ in the way of a Presbyterian Nay it ought to have been so Jesus Christ was bound in the way of righteousnesse to have be un the practice and modellâ— to us over whole Kingdoms having not left it in precept in the whole Gospell and we ought either to have had practice or precept to order and command us in what we obey You say If other Truths be set by it is by those that so oppose Government and not by the Presbyteriall I see the Presbytery must be in no fault Happy men that have nothing but Truth on their side You wish I had more caution in my mind and paper and â— shorter Refutation had served Cautions are not amisse both for you and me and I think you had need of more caution of the two by how much more vast and nationall the Government is you manage You that put yokes upon whole Nations in a day had need to have the cautions of a yeers provision laid in before hand And for your Refutation of my paper do not beare witnesse of yourâ—selfe let Truth judge bet wixt us and let the Reader pray for a spirit of discerning to judge both what is Truth and which is Truth that which you or I affirme Nor will I say I have made here a Refutation of yours If I have done well What have I that I have not received And if I have not the Lord enlighten and enable me to refute my selfe Master Ley's Resolution pag. 36 37 38. To that of his that the matteriall Temple was more clearly left and known then the Gospell paterne c. Answer 1. He would not be thought to side with Sanballat and Tobijah and so endeavours to shew some considerable difference 2. If it beâ—toâ— soon now for the Government will he set a time for it when it will be seasonable or will he have it stay till it be a matter all building or till we have inspired Prophets 3. It cannot be of too quick dispatch if we set it up by the dictates of the Holy Ghost in the New Testament nor the determination sudden if after consideration with Scriptures with the best Divines and collation of the exactest paterns after long debates in the Assembly of Divines where the dissenting and liberty to object and lastly received by Parliament 4. By the builders speciall regard hath been had to Jesus Christ for Foundation c. And now by Master Saltmarsh his consent the work may go on c. Reply You say I would not seem to side with Sanballat and Tobljah You say true I would not But every building is not Temple-work And though I would not with knowledge hinder the Temple of the living God yet if another kind of frame were in building I would do my best to hinder and be no Sanballat neither But they are Sanballats not whom man but whom the Lord counts so But surely they hinder more that set up another kind of Temple then Christs then he that advises to look well that all be right and Temple-worke that is set up To the difference I made of the materiall and Gospell-paterns you say nothing and that is the only considerable It may be as you said by me you are best able to deale with the other You say I should set a time then for the setting it up Yea I shall set you a time yet not in mine own authority but Christ's When your Patern is all Gospell and your people all qualified in that Gospellpatern then is my time for setting up and then is Christ's time too Nor would I stay you for a materiall building as you say You know I call you on to the Gospell I am very far from turning you back to the Law I call you on to Christ I would not turn you back to Solomon And for the inspired Prophets you tell me I stay for and would have you stay too Is not that a very Gospell-way to stay for the Spirit 's coming into the servants of the Lord Take heed of denying inspired Disciples You know it is part of the fâ—lâ—illing of the great Prophecie Acts 2. Indeed some of the Prelates many of them being uninspired themselves and having little of the Spirit or none would needs say therefore All inspirations and Spirituall enlightnings c. were ended in the Church because ended in them and because they were so carnall themselves they thought none was Spirituall And you remember how they made Laws even against the Spirit in Prayer I speake thus only to remember you who spoke most against inspiration and the Spirit lest you may let fall some words which may be taken up by some of that way to countenance them in their Invectives Not but that I esteem of you as one inspired your selfe in a measure and having the Spirit of God in you therefore I know the Spirit will be very tender in opposing the Spirit You say you ought to dispatch the Government because you have followed the dictates of the Holy Ghost of the Assembly and Parliament Then let me put one Question Why is it not called Christs Government Why
of Master Goodwyns and Master Nye not so pleasant as true The Clergie had at first the golden ball of government amongst themselves and it is not much mended any where but in that Church where the people have their Interests as well as others they are the Clergie properly a notion which the Ministers got only to themselves till of late The interest of the people in Christs Kingdom is not only an interest of complyancy and obedience and submission but of consultation of debating counselling prophesying voting c. and let us stand fast in that liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free Presbytery it self is founded on Principles of separation which yet they condemn for Schism in other Churches nay is the greatest separation VVHat is a Presbytery over Congregations or a Congregation but a Church gathered out of a Church Nay is not that the only Church and the remainder of people made but an accessory or something of another kind or rather the Nation or Kingdom which is only subject to this power supream And though Presbytery be but a Church-gathering and founded on a Principle of seperation yet do they not disapprove and condemn seperation and semi or halfe-seperation and Church-gathering for Schism c When their own power is a Schism respectively to the Parishes that are distinct and whatever distinction is formed to make them appear as part of their Congregations yet is it indeed so Is not their whole power defended to be entirely essentially dispensatively in the Presbytery called by themselves the Church and by the very authority of one whom I name with reverence to his learning and moderation Master Herle So as I wonder why there should be such envyings raylings accusings dissentings betwixt us that are beleevers though of severall waies when as each is principled founded administred upon the same ground and way of Schism seperation and Church-gathering nay the Presbytery hath more Schism and separation in it then the rest by how much it is constituted from the people and Brethren and Acts in its ministration apart too viz. over the people rather then with them None to be forced under Christs Kingdom as in the Kingdoms of the world IN a Spirituall Government the ignorance of people which some would have for expedition that they may practically know it is no Scripture way of knowing in practicall godlinesse things must be known before practically known and practice is to begin from faith and faith from knowledge else the obedience can be but blind mixt and Popish Indeed in things civill or morall practice may bring in knowledge habits may be acquired and gotten by Acts a man may grow temperate by practising temperance and civilly obedient by practising civill obedience but it is not so in spirituals there habits go before acts spirituall infusions before practices Indeed the Laws of States and Kingdoms and Civill Policy teach men best by ruling them practically but it is not so in the Church men are not to be forced into Christs Kingdom as into the Kingdoms of the world the Kings of the Nations exercise their Dominion it shall not be so among you The power of a formall Râ—formation in a Government makes it not Christs Government A Government though not purely Christs may be made up of such Scripture and prudentiall materials as may much reform the outward man even as a meer prudentiall Civill-Government may do if severely executed The Romans by how much they excelled other Nations in Laws so much the more they excelled them in a people reformed moralized and civilized in many Civill States meerly from their wholsome Policy and administration excellent and precious flowers spring up many morall vertues as prudence temperance obedience meeknesse love justice fortitude Yet all this makes not a Government to be Christs but only that which is meerly the Discipline of Christ and Policie of Christ Prelacie in its Primitive time did reforme the beast like a lamb which compelled the Nations to Worship and made even fire to come down from Heaven or was religious in the eyes of men and did miracles yet was no true nor heavenly Power neither There are certain parts and degrees of Reformation common and communicable with the Government of Christ and other Governments but then there is a forme and Image of Christ in it which no others have and some certain spirituall operations and workings which exceed the power of all other Governments and this makes the difference and puts on the essentiall true and individuall forme upon it so as in choyce of Governments they are not to be chosen by some Summer fruit in the outward man but by the Word and Spirit The visible Church or Communion is the Image of the invisible or mysticall THe invisible or mysticall Church is made up of pure living stones all is spirituall and yet all not spirituall in the like kind nor degree Jesus Christ the corner stone is both God and man and some of his differ in glory as one Star differs from another and as it is here in this spirituall invisible glorious building so it is in the outward visible Communion below or building here which is the Image of that above The Temple here is acording to the Patern there and as that is of true reall essentially spirituall living stones so the Church here is to consist of such as visibly formally and outwardly appeare so and therefore called Saints and golden Candlesticks and holy Natio c. And though all the materials in this building are to be proportionable and pure to make up a representative of the Church above yet all is not of one square and measure and polishing some are greater and some lesse some Babes and children in Christ some smoaking Flax and bruised Reeds And as this Church bears the Image of the heavenly so the mateâ—â—â—ll one bore the Image of this there was pâ—ne stones gold and Cedar so as there is room in the Church now for any small stone or the least peece of timber if it be but lively or squared if Cedar or Firrâ— How Christ is a King of the Nations and of the Church and how an Head CHrist is a King to the Nations and to the Church nor doth he rule the Nations as the Church nor the Church as the Nations he rules ministerially in his Church and Monarchically in the Nations he rules with a goldâ—n Scepter in his Church with an iron Rod in the Nations Nor doth Christ rule as the Kings of the Nations who finding people rude barbarous uncivill subdue them into obedience and civility but so doth not Christ in his Church that we know on the dispenâ—ation of his Word not of the Government first â—ubdues And it is true Christ is an Head but not an Head to every body he will have a body proportionable to his Head both here and hereafter in earth as well as in heaven he is a pure holy glorious Head in his Gospel-dispensation and
will have a body sutable pure Not only is the visible body of Christ thus pure but every truth of Christ bears the Image of Christ every truth of his hath something of himself in it who is Truth it self I am the Truth saith Christ every beam of light is light every truth is a sparkle of truth it self Thus we may judge of truth by what of Christ we see in it They who break a Chrystall may see their face in every peâ—â—e and parcell so in every thing of Christ there is an Image of Christ either of his purity or holinesse or love or humility or meeknesse c. The Presbyteriall Government and the Worlds of the same equall Dominion VVHat kind of Church-government is that which will set up it selfe with the Civill and State-government even co-ordinate with it if not to the ruling and tutoring of it which hath as large a Dominion as the other which is as full as ample as high and as supream which no lesse territorie then a Kingdome will serve then a whole Nation Muâ—â— Christs Government be just as large as the worlds which Government affects Dominion which brings in whole Nations under the Scepter of it This or that little one in the Scripture which sits downe sometimes in a house to the Church in thy house sometimes in a City as Corinth and over a few there to the Church in Corinth in a Countrey not over a Countrey to the seven Churches in Asia not to the Church of Asia or the Church Asia a Church a fourth part of the world Sure if this Nationall and comprehensive Church were the patern we should walk by Why did not Christ begin first at Kings and Princes and so bring Nations and Kingdomes and make Churches of them But we see no such thing he begins lower at the base and weake and foolish and few and raises up his Kingdome from the bottome of the world and not from the top or pinacle of Princes Kingdomes and Nations The Nationall and Congregationall Church-covenant both lawfull or both unlawfull HOw can a Church-covenant be unlawfull if the Nationall-covenant be warrantable and why doe any plead against that who are for this A Covenant is condemned in the Congregationall Church and yet commended in the Nationall Now How can a Church-covenant be both true and false Is a great Church-covenant lawfull and a little one unlawfull a Nationall Church-covenant warrantable and a Congregationall unwarrantable But Covenantâ— in their nature were a dispensation more of the Olâ— Testamenâ— strain a Nationall Church had a Covenant to gather them up into their Nationall way of worship and were under the Laws of an externall Pedagogâ—â— and now the spirituall dispensation being come even the Gospell of Iesus Christ there is a fulnesse of spirit let out upon the Saints and people of God which gather them up more closely spiritually and cordally then the power of any former dispeâ—sation could the very Covenant of God himself of which the former were typicall and Propheticall comes in nakedly upon the spirits of his and drawes them in and is a law upon their inward parts sweetly compelling in the consciences with power and yet not with force with compulsion and yet with consent and surely where this Covenant of God hath its kindly and spirituall operation there would need no such externall supplement as before but because of the hardnesse of our hearts it is thus from the beginning it was not so the spirit tyed up thousands together then Let States then have any prudentiall security any designe of sound wisdome to consoraâ—e people together but let the Church only be gathered up by a Law of a more glorious and transcendent nature by the pure Covenant of God himselâ— with the souls of his We receive and give out Truth by parts MEn are to be judged and followed according to the degrees of light they receive and if any have some light that light is not to be used as an advantage to all their other darknesse as if all their darknesse might passe under that one beame of light The light rises upon the Prophets as the Sun upon the Earth it is dawning and morning and noon with them Thus came the Gospell Iohn preached Repentance Iesus Christ Faith and Repentance Iohn came with Water Christ with the Spirit and first in Parables and after in power the Apostles they knew first Christ for Messiah then that he should suffer and die and rise againe and then the Kingdome of God Luther knew first that Indulgences were unwarrantable and after that Popery was Antichristianism and Rome was Babylon and works could not justifie and after conscience was not to be compelled in spirituals Thus we grow from Faith to Faith to the fulnesse of stature in Christ to a perfect man in him growing with the increasings of God The Kingdome of God is like a little leven like a grain of mustard seed So as while we see but things in degrees we are neither to be too sudenly admired by others nor our selves All Covenanters are bound to contribute to Religion as well as State VVHosoever hath Covenanted is bound to assist the Publike to his utmost in every Condition and Calling and Place and Way accordingly from naturall abilities to his relations from one relation to another even to all to that of Christian and Spirituall his Prayers Counsell Notions with Countributions of all sorts Civill Naturall Temporall Spirituall He is bound by Covenant to discover malignity in State in Church enemies to God as well as man endeavours to any thing of Popery and Prelacy under what visage habit form of Words of Doctrine Discipline be it Presbytery or whatever if repugnant to the Word of God as we are perswaded in conscience who have personally Covenanted The breathings and speakings of the Spirit are not to be quenched Every season is for the Lords service in season and out of season Watchman watchman what of the night The Spirit is powred upon sons and daughters Synods of men are not infallible Not because more men more of the Spirit The liberty of the subject is that of soule as well as body and that of soul more deare precious glorious The liberty wherein Christ hath made us free Be not ye then the servants of men in the things of God We are to try Truth and so receive it in its Degrees ENquiries for Truth ought to be according to Scripture-rule and that rule lights us on to the triall of all things and proving spirits and judging between the precious and the vile The water that is mingled with the wien the Tares with the Wheat will require sound tryall lest we make but an exchange of one Error for another The Apostles waited for the Spirit the Bereans searched the Word we are bidden to trie and prove The Prophecies of seducers false Christs Antichrist with lying wonders are as reall cautions given out by the Spirit The examples of former Ages Luther
Fishers Book who we hope will do by those as the Helvetians did by somethings that were stumbled at amongst them though there were none but Anabaptists that stumbled at them yet the State did by Authority remove them and Zuinglius their pofessed adversary gives them thanks for occasioning the removall Quaere 1. Why may not the Brethren look for better cure to their troubled consciences from the State now then from some of their Brethren because the hands and hearts of the State have appeared more carefull more mercifull then some of them the Priests and Levits walke by while the good Samaritans comfort the wounded 2. If the State of the Helvetians would not offend the very Anabaptists but remove the scandall why should any State now be set on and inslamed not only to offend but persecute them not only Anabaptists as they are called but all other their Brethren that dissent If States are commended then for being so tender why are they preached now into severity wrath revenge and tender troubled consciences made the only trouble 9. Rigour makes Separatists But we think nay we know that some few Prelates by their over-rigorous pressing have made more Separatists then all the Preachers dis-affected to Ceremonies in England Quaere 1. If it hath appeared formerly that rigorous imposings have occasioned Separation why do they now cry out of so many Separatists and not look up to themselves Why do they beat their fellow servants out of doores and then cry out of their running away 2. Why is not persecution and imposing more forborne by the Brethren now when they have found it the cause of their owne Separation formerly 3. Why do they cry out of Separatists when they see Separatists have not so much made themselves so as they have been made so by others and they have been rather driven away then they have drawn away themselves Why do they cry out of Separation when they force them into corners first if they would have the communion of their Brethren more why make they not their persecution lesse and their offences in Worship and Government lesse 10. Burthens to Churches to be removed In the meane we blesse God who hath put into the hearts of others into whose hands he hath concredited the work to judge more wisely and consider more mercifully and to professe in the hearing of some of us they would willingly part with that which was indifferent to themselves if they were but truly informed it was offensive to others according to that of Gregory those customes which are known to bring any burthens upon the Churches it becomes us to consider of the removing of them Quaere 1. Why may not the State too be petitioned by their people now of tender Consciences to the same temper of tendernesse and mercy to them that the Brethren then desired for themselves Whether are those good neighbours that would have it raine only in their own Gardens and the Sun to shine only on their own blossoms and have peace only in their own dwellings and their neighbour Towns running with bloud 2. Were the times of Non-conformists then times only for removing burdens from Churches and the times of Non-conformists now times of burdening Churches 11. Mens devices ought not to hinder preaching This is just as our Bishops were wont to do who give a full power to a Presbyter at his Ordination to preach the Gospell with a charge to do it yet will not suffer him to preach no not in his own cure without a Licence Quaere 1. When any then was gifted and called to preach the Gospell and Licenses were complained on to hinder why are there any other waies devised against the liberty of the Gospell now as uniformity c. 2. Were Licenses chaines and feâ—ters to the glorious and free spirit And are internogatories and â—uestions at times of Ordination and admission about Anti-Paedo-Baptisme Antinomianism now no restraints nor devices to the same purpose is this to rejoyce that Christ is preached howsoever nay is not this to forbid him because he follows not with us 12. Mens inventions to set up jus Divinum to advance Government They that have studied to advance the Babel of Episcopacy have endeavoured to underpin it with some Texts of Scripture that they might plead a jus divinum for it Quaere 1. Was it unlawfull and politick in some to underpin Episcopacy with some Texts of Scriptures and so to get up a â—us divinum for it and is it not as unlawfull to set up another Forme that is not purely of God underpinned with Texts of Scripture for a jus divinum or divine right as some would have had it 13. Oath ex officio an unlawfull engine We desire to see further how abominable this Oath is how cryed down by learned men how contrary to the Word of God the Law of nature to the Civill and Cannon Laws and to the Statutes of our Kingdom he may find in Mr. Parker Quaere 1. Was it so contrary to the Word of God to all Civill and Common Laws and the Law of our own Kingdom to extort from men Consciencesecrets then of what kind are all Formes of posing examining interogating to find out the opinions of those who are to preach in any Congregation 14. When Presbyters grow as tyrannous as Bishops they are to suffer But if the Presbyters should be as generally corrupted as Bishops now are have as much strength to suppresse the Gospell and promote Popery as the Bishops by their supream power have and if they can bring no more evidence of divine institution then Bishops can and are of no more necessity to the Church then Bishops are let the function suffer Quaere May not the very thing be more feared and presumed by us now from some late experiments of them viz. that the Presbyters may grow strong to suppresse the Gospell and tyronnous c. and may be corrupted as Bishops formerly as well as they might prophesie this of themselves Caiaphas thought as little of Christ when he said one should dye for the people as some Presbyters thought of suppressing the Gospell themselves and suffering for it when they wrote thus against Bishops and Presbyters 15. Change of words in Religion an ill signe We find that the late Innovators which have so much disturbed the peace and purity of our Church did first beâ—in with alterations of words and the Apostle exhorts us to hold fast the forme of sound words 2 Tim 1. 13. and avoyd prophane novelties of words Quaere 1. If the change of words be so dangerous and unwholsome Formes and so condemned before why are unwarrantable words taken up again as Classicall Provinciall Nationall Triers Directories which are no more Formes of wholsome nor Scripture words 16. Reproâ—ches â—o Arguments If confident slightings and scornfull denâ—als be sufficient answers to us and our arguments never any man hath better defended Episcopacy or more strongly confuted those that oppose
that the cords bruised his shoulders and made them swell as bigg as a penny â—oase and the Warden made him be gagged as if he would teare his jawes Answer THat the graduall subordination is made good by Mr Rutherford c. Is this reasoning or reference And this you have done all along referred us either to your selfe or some other to answer for you That your Presbyteries are not so singular more free convenient more peaceable more Apostolicall more Authorized then other Churches These are good commendations but had halfe so much been proved by the Word your Government had passed before this For that of Sacriledge and usurpation upon God in alienating Tythes never did Prelate no nor Bishop Mountague plead an higher title for tythes What sacriledge and usurpation to deny Tythes Where are you in the Covenant or no is it not a Parliament Ordinance you take them by and will you set up a Divine Right over that now surely they may justly now withdraw their Ordinance for Tythes and leave you to your Divine Right and see what the people will pay you To that of your commending old men and age I reverence age and old men but not the old man in them And for dreames being more excellent then visions It is a curious speculation and enough may be said for both yet if you take Visions more spiritually they are a more glorious way of Revelation then that of dreames but what are these dreames to yours Surely Reformation in bloud or by persecution is but a dream of such as have slept long in Prelacie Why are you so much in the defence of jeasting and so serious in your Scripture proofes for it take heed of strengthening corrupt nature by Scripture God and Eliah saw errors more cleerely then you or I who may assoon laugh at the Scripture it selfe as something beside it And for other Church-Governments not comming under the tryall of Parliament nor comming out by their authority I know not any that would not humbly lay downe their Scripture-order to that honourable Senate and rejoyce that they would take it up to discusse and for not comming out under their authority I know none of the rest so ambitious or troublesome to the Magistrate as to solicite them to compell their order upon all their Brethren and all must be Hereticks and Schismaticks that will not though they cannot beleeve so For Gospell-patterns being as much in the letter as the Legall because written are you such a stranger to the Spirits notion of Letter and Spirit in the New Testament Know you not that the Temple or Legall Worship before was said to be in the Oldnesse of the Letter Know you not that Gospell-patternes are more seen by the Spirit now then before and though both be written and in Letter yet not both equally litterall but the one more glorious in the ministration the other lesse For that of the suffererâ— Mr Prynn Mr Burton Mr Lilburne and Mr Bestwick And Mr Lilbourne written in such capitall Letters of blâ—â—â—d as you justly say and can you name these and call for the power in your hands as you do Can you thus remember Prelates and yet petition to be such Presbyters Can you see these yet bleeding and desire to persecute by such a President of Bloud FOr Salmasius his testimony with the Baptisme in the name of the Lord Iesus Christ and his testimony that the Presbyterâ— is but of humane and positive right not of Divine He is mine and not yours and all youâ— paines and quarrelling and after quotations cannot make him more yours or lesse mine and it is no little disadvantage to you that one so great a Schollar as your whole Assembly affords any hath thus witnessed with the truth which so many Schollars oppose C. D. his Treatise printed with Master Ley's Book in Master Ley's Commendation whether made by himselfe or some other he best knows HIs Title is One of the Assembly of Divines at Westminster And there you might have known of what account he was among his Reverend Brethren He was chosen Chaire man of the Committée of examination of Ministers and of the Committée of Printing and one of the Tryers and one of the Ordainers of Ministers next after the two Doctors Chaire-man I remember not any of the Apostles in such Offices and Titles You might have known him by his Pattern of Piety his Book on the Sabbath by divers Sermons of his â—â— Print his Annotations on the Pentateuch and he hath much more prepared for the Presse then is already printed All which are approved by those most able to judge of iudicious and learned Laboure Give them leave to speak themselves in this point The Greek Anagram made on his name when President of Sion Colledge THE SUN IN SION with Verses If the Sun be there why no more Light there then For his Name you would think it too venerable c. John in the Hebrew signifies Grace and Ley in Spanish the Law With some Letters in his Commendation in pag. 19 20. c. THus I have gathered up all in your Book that concernes you materially and your friend printed on the backside of yours And for other particulars more substantiall your Books and mine are both abroad let them speak for themselves the Readers must now judge in the Spirit what we both write in the Letter for I intend not to puzzle the world with any more of this Controversie Some Truth may be seen and what is more is but you and I. SIR I was unwilling to set your failings before you and the world but since you printed them once over in mistake I thought I might print them over in a cleerer letter that you may see things for Errours which before you took for Truths Conclusion THus I have replyed to your Positions not to your passions nor reproaches in which you are something larger then I had thought becomes an Orthodex Divine And for the dirt you cast in my face I have only wiped it off without casting it back on yours I had rather let it fall in the Channell which best becomes it For your Revilings sleightings and railings if they trouble not your selfe to write the Presse to print and the Reader to read I promise you they trouble not me And though I am much below many yet I am in this above you that I can forgive you by how much he that can pardon is greater then he that offends I thanke you for your ill usage you cannot do that against me which works not for my good for I am learning to blesse them that curse me to pray for them that despightfully use me And truly this advantage I shall make of your taxing me for faults which I have not To taxe my selfe of the many other faults which I have indeed which you and the world see not FINIS REASONS FOR Vnitie Peace and Love WITH AN ANSWER Called Shadows
godlinesse Whether all your Fastings and Repentance were from true meltings of heart sound humiliation or because the State called for it and constrained it Whether your praying and preaching was not much of it Self of Invention of Parts of Art of Learning of seeking praise from man Oh should the light of the Spirit come in clearnesse and glory upon your spirit Oh! how much of Self of Hypocrisie of Vanity of Flesh of Corruption would appeare how would all be unprofitable For my part I cannot be so uncharitable but to wish you a better assurance then what you and your Brethren can find in your own works or righteousnesse For it is not what we approve but what God approves is accepted And I am perswaded however you are now loth it may be to lose reputation by going out of an old track of Divinity as Luther once yet when once your spirit begins to be unclothed of forms of darknesse and art of self-righteousnesse and that you with open face behold the glory of the Lord you will cry out Wo is me I am undone for I have seen the Lord and Lord depart from me for I am a sinfull creature and What went I out to see My owne unrighteousnesse or rather A Reed shaken with the winde An Answer to a Book intituled A Plea for Congregationall Government or A Defence of the Assemblies Petition c. YOu write thus 1 That the independents confesse you a true Church and Minstery 2 Those that are ordained by Bishops may be true Ministers else how am I a Preacher or they true Ministers 3 Succession is not necessary to the essence of a true Ministery 4 If no true Ministery no true Baptisme 5 Must not there be persons ordaining and persons ordained And so the dissenting Brethren hold 6 That you abuse the Assembly in citing their Humble Advice touching the Divine Right of a Congregationall Presbyteriall and not of the other The Independents assort a Divine Right there and in Synods too as they do They hold a Divine Right in one as well as the other 7 Their ordination by Bishops though it should be null yet they have all you can alleadge necessary to a Preacher 8 Parishes here are but as in New-England as in Jerusalem Antioch 9 Some of the dissenting Brethren hold Synods an holy Ordinance of God and this Assembly so to be 10 If no Presbyteries must be of Divine Right because not infallibly gifted this concludes against Presbyteries and Ordinances 11 If you would have them content with a mixed power partly prudentiall because of their mixt dnointing you contradict that pure one you plead for 12 The Apostles and Elders and Angels of the Churches of Asia were not infallible as in divers practices 13 To say the Apostles did advise in place of the written Word is little lesse then Blasphemy 14 The Presbyterians in France and Scotland and the Netherlands do not so imbroyle Kingdoms The feare of excommunicating Parliaments and Kingdoms is but a Bugbeare 15 They aske not of the State an Ecclesiasticall-power but a liberty to exercise that power 16 Hath Christâ— said that in a sound Church Church-Officers shall excommunicate and in an nnsound the Magistrate shall do it 17 He may in time say as much against Equity and justice living upon voyces in Assemblies as against Truth Answer To the first That the Independents confesse you a true Chruch and Ministery You are not to prove what others confesse or hold you to be but what you are indeed according to Truth Nor do I contend with those that hold you so but with you that hold your selves so as the Spirit to the Laodiceans Thou sayest thou art full c. and behold thou art poore c. To the second That they ordained by Bishops are true Ministers as the Independents and I a Preacher for all that Ordination If you meane that the Bishops Ordination makes not one for ever a false or Antichristian Minister I grant it because it is no marke to them that renounce it Babylon is no more Babylon to them that are gone out of it But what is this to your Ministery or Ordination who are yet under the Marke and Babylonish Ordination Renounce it come out as the Spirit cals ye and then your being Antichristian is no more to ye then to the Ephesians that they should be lesse light because they were once darknesse or lesse alive because they were once dead To the third That Succession is not necessary to a true Ministery It is both true and false in severall acceptions When there was a true power they ordained others and others them There was succession But that being lost under Antichrist so far as visibly to derive it to us there can be no such true visible Succession appearing And yet you that pretend to stand by the first power must prove your Succession if you will prove your power To the Fourth If no true Ministery no true Baptism For that as you please I dare not exalt the truth of your Baptism above that of your Ministery no more then you To the Fifth The dissenting Brethren hold there must be persons ordaining and ordained as well as we Yeâ— but do they hold Bishops ordaining and Presbyters ordained by Bishops and Presbyters of their ordaining ordaining others as you do To the Sixth of my unjust citing the Assemblies Modell or Humble Advice and that there is no more Divine Right asserted in the Congregationall Presbytery then in the Classicall c. which is done so by the dissenting Brethren I answer Let the Modell be printed to the world to end the difference betwixt you and me And for the Divine Right of the one and the other I am of your mind they are able to prove both alike of Divine Right that is in their Presbytery The one is no more of Divine Right then the other and neither of them of any And for the dissenting Brethren it is not them but you I deale with Why come you under their shadow in a storme and yet will let them have no liberty under yours but would turne us all abroad as Hereticks and Schismaticks To the Seventh Though the Ordination by Bishops be null yet they have the other necessaries to a Preacher Will ye undertake for the Assembly they shall stand to this that all their former Ordination by Bishops is null If so we are agreed if not all their other necessaries are no more then Ahabs peace What peace saith Jehu so long as the whoredoms of thy mother Iezebell are alive So what Ministery so long as the whoredoms of Babylon yet remaine To the Eighth That the Parishes are but as in New-England as in Ierusalem c. I pray forbeare this it is too manifest an errour Are the Parishes of England and Churches of Ierusalm one and the same so discipled so constituted Were all of Ierusalem and Antioch reckoned for Christs Congregations as all Parishes are To the Ninth