end doth so absolutely moralize an action that it of its self should render it good or evil Evil it may but good of its self it cannot For Bonum oritur ex integris causis malum ex quolibet defectu Rectifying the intention will not secure your morality And yet also on second thoughts that I see not much difference between the ends that Celsus proposed unto himself upon his generall Principle and those that you propose to your self upon your own as well as the way whereby you proceed is the same But yet upon the accounts before mentioned I shall free you from your fears of being thought like him 3. When Protestants preach against our Divisions they charge them upon the Persons of them that are guilty whereas you do it on the Principles of the Religion that they profess so that although you may deal like Celsus they do not 4. The scurrilous Sarcasm wherewith you close your Discourse is not meet for any thing but the entertainment of a Friar and his Concubine such as in some places formerly men have by publick Edicts forced you to maintain as the only Expedient to preserve their families from being defiled by you 5. Let us now pass through the Instances that you have culled out of many charged upon you to be the same with those of Celsus concerning which you make such a trebled Outcry does he does he does he The first is Doth Fiat Lux lay the cause of all Tumults and Disorders on Protestants clames licet mare coelo confundas Fiat Lux doth so chap. 4. § 17. p. 237. § 18. p. 242 243. § 20. p. 255. and in sundry other places You adde Doth he charge Protestants that by their schisms and seditions they make way for other revolts He doth so and that frequently chap. 3. § 14. p. 187 c. Doth he you adde gather a Rhapsody of insignificant words as did Celsus I say he doth in the pretended plea that he insists on for Quakers and for Presbyterians also chap. 3. § 13. p. 172 173 c. Again Doth he manage the Arguments of the Jews against Christianity as was done by Celsus He doth directly expresly and at large chap. 3. § 12. p. 158. c. I confess because it may be you know it not you might have questioned the truth of my parallel on the side that concerned Celsus which yet I am ready at any time if you shall so do to give you satisfaction in but that you would question it on your own part when your whole discourse and the most of the passages in it make it so evident I could not foresee But your whole Defence is nothing but a noise or an outery to deter men from coming nigh you to see how the Case stands with you It will not serve your turn 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 you must abide by what you have done or fairly retract it In the mean time I am glad to find you ashamed of that which elswhere you so much boast and glory in With the sixth and seventh Principles mentioned by me you deal in like manner You deny them to be yours which is plainly to deny your self to be the Author of Fiat Lux. And surely every man that hath once looked seriously into that Discourse of yours will be amazed to hear you saying that you never asserted Our Departure from Rome to be the Cause of the Evils among Protestants or that There is no Remedy for them but by a Returnal thither again which are the things that now you deny to be spoken or intended by you For my part I am now so used unto this kind of Confidence that nothing you say or deny seems strange unto me And whereas unto your Denial you adde not any thing that may give occasion unto any usefull Discourse I shall pass it by and proceed unto that which will afford us some better advantage unto that purpose CHAP. VI. Further Vindication of the second Chapter of th◠Animadversions Scripture sufficient to settle men in the Truth Instance against it examined removed Principles of Protestants and Romanists in reference unto Moderation compared and discussed THe eighth Principle which way soever it be determined is of great importance as to the Cause under debate Here then we shall stay a while and examine the difficulties which you labour to entangle that Assertion withall which we acknowledge to be the great and Fundamentall Principle of our Profession and you oppose The Position I laid down as yours is That the Scripture on sundry accounts is in sufficient to settle us in the Truth of Religio◠or to bring us to an agreement amongst our selves Hereunto I subjoyned the four heads of Reasons which in your Fiat you insisted on to make good your Assertion These you thought meet to pass by without reviving them again to your further disadvantage You are acquainted it seems with the old Rule Et quà Desperat tractata nitescere posse relinquit The Position its self you dare not directly deny but yet seek what you can to wave the owning of it contrary to your express Discourse Chap. 3. § 15. p. 199 200 c. as also in sundry other places interwoven with expressions exceedingly derogatory to the Authority Excellency Efficacy and fullness of the Scripture as hath been shewed in the Animadversions But let us now consider what you plead for your self Thus then you proceed You speak not one word to the purpose or against me at all if I had delivered any such Principle Gods Word is both the sufficient and only necessary means of both our Conversion and Settlement as well in Truth as Vertue But the thing you heed not and unto which I only speak is this that the Scripture be in two hands for example of the Protestant Church in England and of the Puritan who with the Scripture rose up and rebelled against her Can the Scripture alone of its self decide the business How shall it do it has it ever done it Or can that written Word now solitary and in private hands so settle any in a way that neither himself nor present adherents nor future generations shall question it or with as much probability dissent from it either totally or in part as himself first set it This is the Case unto which you do neither here nor in your whole Book speak one word and what you speak otherwise of the Scriptures excellency I allow it for Good 1. Because you are not the only Judge of what I have written nor indeed any competent Judge of it at all I shall not concern my self in the Censure which your Interest compells you to pass upon it It is left unto the thoughts of those who are more impartial 2. Setting aside your Instance pitched on ad invidiam only with some aequivocall expressions as must needs be thought 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 very artificially to be put into the state of a Question and that which you deny is
this that where any persons or Churches are at variance or difference about any thing concerning Religion or the worship of God the Scripture is not sufficient for the Vmpirage of that Difference so that they may be reconciled and center in the Profession of the same Truth I wish you would now tell me what discrepancy there is between the Assertion which I ascribed unto you and that which your self here avow I suppose they are in substance the same and as such will be owned by every one that understands any thing of the matters about which we treat And this is so spoken unto in the Animadversions that you have no mind to undertake the examination of it but labour to divert the discourse unto that which may appear something else but indeed is not so 3. For your Distinction between Protestants and Puritans in England I know not well what to make of it I know no Puritans in England that are not Protestants though all the Protestants in England do not absolutely agree in every punctilio relating to Religion nor in all things relating unto the outward worship of God no more than did the Churches in the Apostles dayes or than your Catholicks do You give us then a Distinction like that which a man may give between the Church of Rome and the Jesuits or Dominicans or the Sons of S t. Benet or of S t Francis of Assize A Distinction or Distribution of the Genus into the Genus and one Species comprehended under it as if you should have said that Animal is either Animal or Homo 4. Though I had rather therefore that you had placed your Instance between the Church of Rome and Protestants yet because any instance of Persons that have different Apprehensions about things belonging to the worship of God will suffice us as to the present purpose I shall let it pass Only I desire you once more that when you would endeavour to render any thing way or acting of men odious that you would forbear to cast the Scripture into a Copartnership therein which here you seem to do The Puritan you say with the Scripture rose up and rebelled Rebellion is the name of an outragious Evil such as the Scripture giveth not the least Countenance unto And therefore when you think meet to charge it upon any you may do well not to say that they do it with the Scripture It will not be to your comfort or advantage so to do This is but my advice you may do as you see cause Tales Casus Cassandra canebat 5. The Differences you suppose and look upon as undeterminable by the Scripture are about things that in themselves really and in truth belong unto Christian Religion or such as do not so indeed but are only fancied by some men so to do If they are of this latter sort as the most of the Controversies which we have with you are as about your Mass Purgatory the Pope we account that all Differences about them are sufficiently determined in the Scriptures because they are no where mentioned in them And this must needs be so if the Word of God be as you here grant the sufficient and only means both of our Conversion and Settlement as well in Truth as in Vertue S r I had no sooner written these words in that haste wherein I treat with you but I suspected a necessity of craving your pardon for supposing my Inference confirmed by your Concession For whereas you had immediately before set down the Assertion supposed to be yours about the Scriptures you adde the words now mentioned Gods Word is the sufficient and only means of our Conversion and Settlement in the Truth I did not in the least suspect that you intended any Legerdemain in the business but that the Scripture and Gods Word had been only various denominations with you of the same precise Thing as they are with us Only I confess at the first view I wondred how you could reconcile this Assertion with the known Principles of your Church and besides I knew it to be perfectly destructive of your design in your following Enquiry But now I fear you play hide and seek in the ambiguity your Church hath put upon that Title Gods Word which it hath applyed unto your unwritten Traditions as well as unto the written Word as the Jews apply the same term unto their Orall Law And therefore as I said before I crave your pardon for supposing my Inference confirmed by your Concession wherein I fear I was mistaken and only desire you that for the future you would speak your mind plainly and candidly as it becomes a Christian and Lover of Truth to do But my Assertion I esteem never the worse though it have not the happiness to enjoy your approbation especially considering that in the particular Instances mentioned there are many things delivered in Scripture inconsistent with and destructive of your notions about them sufficient to exterminate them from the Confines of the City of God 6. Suppose the matters in difference do really belong unto Religion and the worship of God and that the Difference lyes only in mens various Conceptions of them you ask Can the Scripture alone of its self decide the business What do you mean by alone of its self If you mean without mens application of themselves unto it and subjecting of their Consciences unto its Authoritative decisions neither it nor any thing else can do it The matter its self is perfectly stated in the Scripture whether any men take notice of it or no but their various apprehensions about it must be regulated by their applications unto it in the way mentioned On this only Supposition that those who are at variance about things which really appertain unto the Religion of Jesus Christ will refer the determination of them unto the Scripture and bring the Conâ—eptions of their minds to be regulated thereby standing unto its Arbitriment it is able alone and of its self to end all their differences and settle them all iu the Truth This hath been proved unto you a thousand times and confirmed by most clear Testimonies of the Scripture its self with Arguments taken from its Nature Perfection and the End of its giving forth unto men as also from the practise of our Lord Jesus and his Apostles with their directions and commands given unto us for the same Purpose from the Practise of the First Churches with innumerable Testimonies of the Ancient Fathers and Doctors Neither can this be denied without that horrible Derogation from its Perfection and Plenitude so reverenced by them of old which is objected unto you for your so doing Protestants suppose the Scripture to be given forth by God to be unto the Church â—a perfect Rule of that Faith and Obedience which he requires at the hands of the sons of men They suppose that it is such a Revelation of his Mind or Will as is intelligible unto all them that are concerned to know
observed reproved condemned and written against Only unto what shall be discoursed unto this pnrpose I desire liberty to premise these three things which I suppose will be granted Dabitur ignis tamen et si ab inimicis petam The first is that What is by any previously condemned before the embracing and practice of it is no less condemned by them than if the practice had preceded their condemnation Though you should say that your avowing of a condemned errour would make it no errour yet you cannot say that it will render it not condemned for that which is done cannot be undone say you what you will Secondly that Where any opinion or practice in Religion which is embraced and used by your Church is condemned and written against that then your Church which so embraceth and useth it is condemned and written against For neither do Protestants write against your Church or condemn it on any other account but of your opinions and practices and you require but such a writing and condemnation as you complain of amongst them Thirdly I desire you to take notice that I do not this as though it were necessary to the security and defence of the Cause which we maintain against you It is abundantly sufficient and satisfactory unto our consciences in your casting us out from your communion that all the wayes whereby we say your Church is fallen from her pristine purity are judged and condemned in the Scripture the Word of truth whither we appeal for the last determination of the differences between us These things being premised to prevent such evasions as you have accustomed your self unto I shall as briefly as I can give you somewhat of that which you have now twice called for 1. Your Principle and Practise in imposing upon all Persons and Churches a necessity of the observation of your Rites and Ceremonies Customes and Traditions casting them out of Communion who refuse to submit unto this your great Principle of all the Schisms in Europe was contradicted written against condemned by Councels and Fathers in the very first instance that ever you gave of it Be pleased to consider that this concerns the very Life and Being of your Church For if you may not impose your Constitutions observances and customes upon all others actum est there is an end of your present Church State Let us see then how this was thought of in the dayes of old Victor the Bishop of Rome An Dom. 96. condemns and excommunicates the Churches of Asia because they would not joyn with him in the Celebration of Easter precisely on the Lords day Did this practise escape uncontrolled He was written against by the great Irenaeus and reproved that he had cast out of Communion 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 whole Churches of God for a triviall cause His fact also was condemned in the justification of those Churches by a Councell in Palestine where Theophilus presided and another in Asia called together for the same purpose by Polycrates Euseb. Eccles. Hist. lib. 5. cap. 22 23 24 25. This is an early instance of a considerable Fall in your Church and an open opposition by Councels and Fathers made unto it And do not you S r deceive your self as though the fact of Victor were alone concerned in this censure of Irenaeus and others The Principle before mentioned which is the very life and soul of your Church is condemned in it It was done also in a repetition of the same Instance attempted here in England by you when Austine that came from Rome would have imposed on the Brittish Churches the observation of Easter according to the custome of the Roman Church the Bishops and Monks of these Churches not only rejected your Custome but the Principle also from whence the attempt to impose it on them did proceed protesting that they owned no subjection to the Bishop of Rome nor other regard than what they did to every good Christian. Concil Anglican p. 188. 2. Your Doctrine and Practise of forcing men by carnall weapons corporall penalties tortures and terrors of death unto the embracement of your profession and actually destroying and taking away the lives of them that persist in their dissent from you is condemned by Fathers and Councels as well as by the Scriptures and the light of Nature its self It is condemned by Tertullian Apol. cap. 23. Videte saith he ne hoc ad irreligiositatis elogium concurrat adimere libertatem Religionis interdicere optionem Divinitat is ut non liceat mihi colere quod velim sed cogar colere quod nolim with the like expressions in twenty other places All this externall compulsion he ascribes unto profaneness So doth Clemens Alexand. Stromat 8. So also did Lactantius all consenting in that Maxim of Tertullian Lex nova non se vindicat ultore gladio The Law of Christ revengeth not its self with a punishing sword The Councell of Sardis Epist. ad Alexand. expresly affirms that they disswaded the Emperour from interpesing his Secular power to compell them that dissented And you are fully condemned in a Canon of a Councell at Toledo Cap. de Judae distinc 45. Praecipit sancta Synodns nemini deinceps ad credendum vim inferre cui enim vult Deus miseretur quem vult indurat The holy Synod commandeth that none hereafter shall by force be compelled to the faith for God hath mercy on whom he will have mercy and whom he will he hardeneth Athanasius in his Epistle ad Solitar falls heavily on the Arians that they began first to compell men to their heresie by force prisons and punishments whence he concludes of their Sect atque ita seipsam quam non sit pia nec Dei cultrix manifestat it evidestly declares it self hereby to be neither pious nor to have any reverence of God In a Book that is of some credit with you namely Clemens his Constitutions you have this amongst other things for your comfort 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Christ left men the power of their wills free in this matter not punishing them with death temporall but calling them to give an account in another world And Chrysostome speaks to the same purpose on Joh 6. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 He asked them saying Will you also go away which is the Question of one rejecting all force and necessity Epiphanius gives it as the character of thesemi-Arâ—ians 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 They persecute them that teach the Truth not confuting them with words but delivering them that believe aright to hatreds wars and swords having now brought destruction not to one City or Countrey alone but to many Neither can you relieve your selves by answering that they were true believers whom they persecuted you punish Hereticks and Schismaticks only for they thought and said the same of themselves which you assert in your own behalf So Salvian informs us Haeretici sunt sed non scientes denique apud nos sunt Haeretici apud se non
man will swallow amongst them that which is destitute of all Probability but what is included in the evidence given unto it by Divine Revelation which is not yet pleaded unto him It may be then you will work Miracles to confirm your Assertions Let us see them For although very many things are requisite to manifest any works of wonder that may be wrought in the world to be reall Miracles and good Caution be required to judge unto what end Miracles are wrought yet if we may have any tolerable evidence of your working Miracles in Confirmation of this Assertion that you are the true and only Church of God with the other Inferences depending thereon which we are in the Consideration of you will find us very easie to be treated withall But herein also you fail You have then no way to deal with such a man as we first supposed but as you do with us and produce Testimonies of Scripture to prove and confirm the Authority of your Church and then you will quickly find where you are and what snares you have cast your selves into Will not a man who hears you proving the Authority of your Church by the Scripture ask you And whence hath this Scripture its Authority yea that is supposed to be the thing in Question which denying unto it an 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 you yet produce to confirm the Authority of that by whose Authority alone its self is evidenced to have any Authority at all Rest in the Authority of God manifesting its self in the Scripture witnessed unto by the Catholick Tradition of all Ages you will not But you will prove the Scripture to be the Word of God by the Testimony of your Church and you will prove your Châ—â—â—h to be enabled sufficiently to testifie the Scriptures to be of God by the Testimonies of the Scripture Would you knew where to begin and where to end But you are indeed in a Circle which hath neither beginning nor ending I know not when we shall be enabled to say Inventus Chrysippe tui finitor acervi Now do you think it reasonable that we should leave our stable and immoveable firm foundations to run round with you in this endless Circle untill through giddiness we fall into Unbelief or Atheism This is that which I told you before you must either acknowledge our Principle in this matter to be firm and certain or open a door to Atheism and the Contempt of Christian Religion seeing you are not able to substitute and thing in the room thereof that is able to bear the weight that must be laid upon it if we believe For how should you do so shall man be like unto God or equall unto him The Testimony we rest in is Divine fortified from all Objections by the strongest humane Testimony possible namely Catholick Tradition That which you would supply us with is meerly Humane and no more And 4. your Importunity in opposing this Principle is so much the more marvellous unto us because therein you openly oppose your selves to express Testimonies of Scripture and the full Suffrage of the Ancient Church I wish you would a little weigh what is affirmed 2 Pet. 1. 19 20. Psal. 119. 152. Joh. 5. 34 35 36 39. 1 Thess. 2. 13. Act. 17. 11. 1 Joh. 5. 6 10. 1 Joh. 2. 20. Heb. 11. 1 Tim. 1. 15. Act. 26. 22. And will you take with you the consent of the Ancients Clemens Alexand. Strom. 7. speaks fully to our purpose as he doth also lib. 4. where he plainly affirms that the Church proved the Scripture by its selfâ— and other things as the Unity of the Deity by the Scripture But his own words in the former place are worth the recital 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 saith he 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 For the beginning of Faith or Principle of what we teach we have the Lord who in sundry manners and by divers parts by the Prophets Gospel and holy Apostles leads us to knowledge And if any one suppose that a Principle stands in need of another to prove it he destroys the nature of a Principle or it is no longer preserved a Principle This is that we say The Scripture the Old and New Testament is the Principle of our Faith This is proved by its self to be of the Lord who is its Author and if we cause it to depend on any thing else it is no longer the Principle of our Faith and Profession And a little after where he hath shewed that a Principle ought not to be disputed nor to be the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 of any debate he addes 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 It is meet then that receiving by Faith the most absolute Principle without other demonstration and taking demonstrations of the Principle from the Principle its self that we be instructed by the voice of the Lord unto the knowledge of the Truth That is we believe the Scripture for its own sake and the Testimony that God gives unto it in it and by it and do prove every thing else by it and so are confirmed in the faith or knowledge of the Truth So he further explains himself 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 For we do not simply or absolutely attend or give heed unto men determining or defining against whom it is equall that we may define or declare our judgements So it is whilest the Authority of man or men any Society of men in the world is pleaded the Authority of others may be as good reason be objected against it as whilest you plead your Church and its definitions others may on as good grounds oppose theirs unto you therein And therefore Clemens proceeds 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 For if it be not sufficient meerly to declare or assert that which appears to be truth but also to make that Credible or fit to be believed which is spoken we seek not after the Testimony that is given by men but we confirm that which is proposed or enquired about with the voice of the Lord which is more full than any demonstration or rather is its self the only demonstration according to the knowledge whereof they that have tasted of the Scriptures are believers Into the voice the Word of God alone the Church then resolved their Faith this only they built upon acknowledging all humane Testimony to be too weak and infirm to be made a foundation for it And this voice of God in the Scripture evidencing its self so to be is the only Demonstration of Faith which they rested in whereupon a little after he addes 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 so wee having perfect Demonstrations out of the Scriptures are by Faith demonstratively assured or perswaded of the Truth of the things proposed This was the Profession of the Church of old this the resolution of their faith This is that which Protestants in this Case adhere unto They proved the Scripture to be from God as he elswhere speaks 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 as
fuerit haec ratio firmiter adharendi quòd in ea veritas sit solidior quamvis non clarior Habet enim omnis veritas vim inclinativam major majorem maxima maximam Sed cur ergo omnes non credunt Evangelio Respondeo quod non omnes trahuntur à Deo And again Inest ergo Scripturis Sacris nescio quid Natur â sublimius idest inspiratio facta divinitus divinae irradiation is influxus certus But whence are wee perswaded that it is from the First Verity but from it Self It s own Authority draws us to believe it But whence obtains it this Authority â— we see not God preaching writing teaching but yet as if we had seen him we believe and firmly hold that which we read to have come from the Holy Ghost It may be that this is a reason of our firm adhering unto it that the Truth in it is more solid though not more clear than in any other way of proposall and all truth hath a power to incline unto belief the greater the Truth the greater its power and the greatest Truth must have the greatest power so to incline us But why then do not all believe the Gospell I answer because all are not drawn of God There is then in the holy Scripture somewhat more sublime than Nature that is the Divine Inspiration from whence it is and the Divine Irradiation wherewith it is accompanied This is the Principle of Protestants The Sacred Scripture is credible as proceeding from the first Verity this it manifests by its own Light and Efficacy and we are enabled to believe it by the effectuall working of the Spirit of God in our hearts Whence our Saviour asks the Jews Joh 5. If you believe not the writing of Moses how will you believe my words They who will not believe the written Word of the Scripture upon the Authority that it hath in its self would not believe if Christ should personally speak unto them So saith Theophylact on the place 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 3. Protestants believe and profess that the End wherefore God gave forth his Word by Inspiration was that it might be a stable Infallible Revelation of his mind and will as to that knowledge which he would have mankind entertain of him with that Worship and Obedience which he requireth of them that so they may please him in this world and come unto the fruition of him unto all eternity God who is the formal object is also the prime Cause of all Religious worship What is due unto him as the first Cause last End and Soveraign Lord of all as to the substance of it and what he further appoints himself as to the manner of its performance suited unto his own Holiness and the Condition wherein in reference unto our Last end we stand and are making up the whâ—le of it That he hath given his Word to reveal these things unto us to be our Rule Guide and Direction in our wayes walkings and universal deportment before him is as I take it a fundamentall Principle of our Christian Profession Neither do I know that this is denied by your Church although you startle at the inferences that are justly made from it I shall not need therefore to adde any thing in its Confirmation but only mind you again that the calling of it into question is directly against the very heart of all Religion and the unanimous consent of all that in the world are called Christians or ever were so Yea and it must be granted or the whole Scripture esteemed a Fable because it frequently declares that it is given unto us of God for this End and Purpose And hence do Protestants inferre two other Conclusions on which they build their Perswasion concerning the Vnity of Faith and the proper means of their Settlement therein 1. That therefore the Scripture is perfect and every way compleat namely with respect unto that end whereunto of God it is designed A Perfect and compleat Revelation of the Will of God as to his Worship and our Obedience And we cannot but wonder that any who profess themselves to believe that it was given for the end mentioned should not have that sacred Reverence for the Wisdome Goodness and Love of its Author unto mankind as freely to assent unto this Inference and Conclusion He is our Rock and his work is perfect And lest any men should please themselves in the imagination of contributing any thing towards the effecting of the end of his Word by a supply unto it he hath strictly forbidden them any such addition Deut. 4. 2. 12. 12. Prov. 30. 6. Which if it were not compleat in reference unto its proper End would hold no great correspondency with that Love and goodness which the same Word every where declares to be in Him I suppose you know with how many express Testimonies of Scripture its self this Truth is confirmed which added unto that light and evidence which as a deduction from the former fundamental Truth it hath in its self is very sufficient to render it unquestionable You may at your leasure besides these forenamed consult Psal. 19. 8. Esa. 8. 20. Ezek. 28. 18. Mat. 15. 6. Luk. 1. 3 4. ch 16. 29 31. ch 24. 25 27. Job 5. 39. ch 20. 10 Act. 1. 11. ch 17. 2 3. ch 20. 27. chapt 26. 22. Rom. 10. 17. ch 15. 4. 1 Cor. 4. 6. Gal. 1. 8. Eph. 2. 19 20. 2 Tim. 3. 16 17. Heb. 1. 1. 2 Pet. 1. 19. Rev 22. 18. For though Texts of Scripture are not appointed for us to throw at one anothers heads as you talk in your Fiat yet they are for us to use and insist on in the Confirmation of the Truth if we may take the example of Christ and all his Apostles for our warrant And it were endless to recite the full and plain Testimonies of the Ancient Fathers and Councels to this purpose Neither is that my present design though I did somwehat occasionally that way upon the former Principle It shall suffice me to shew that the deny all of this Assertion also as it is inferred from the foregoing Principle is Prejudiciall if not pernicious to Christian Religion in Generall The whole of our Faith and Profession is resolved into the known Excellencies and Perfections of the Nature of God Amongst these there are none that have a more immediate and quickning influence into them than his Wisdom Goodness Grace Care and Love towards them unto whom he is pleased to reveal himself Nor is there any property of his Nature that in his Word he more frequently gives testimony unto And all of them doth he declare himself to have exalted and glorified in a signall manner in that Revelation which he hath made of himself his Mind and Will therein I suppose this cannot be denied by any who hath the least sense of the importance of the things revealed Now if the Revelation made for the End before proposed be not perfect
And that A man once rid of his Authority may as easily deride and as solidly confute the Incarnation as the Sprinkling of Holy water so resolving our faith of the Incarnation of Christ into his Authority or Testimony Yea and in the same page That if it had not been for the Pope Christ himself had not been taken in the world for any such Person as he is believed this day And p. 378. to the same purpose The first great fundamental of Christian Religion which is the Truth and Divinity of Christ had it not been for him had failed long ago in the world with much more to the same purpose Hence it is evident that in your judgment all Truth and Certainty in Region depends on the Popes Anthority and Infallibility or as you express it his unerring guidance This is your Principle this you propose as the only medium to bring us unto that Settlement in Religion which you suppose the Scripture is not able to do What course should we now take would you have us believe you at the first word without further triall or examination would you have a man to do so who never before heard of Pope or Church We are commanded to try all things and to hold fast that which is good to try pretending Spirits and the Beraeans are commended for examining by the Scripture what Paul himself preached unto them An implicit Credulity given up to such Dictates is the height of Fanaticism Have wee not reason then to call you and your copartners in this design to an accoun â—how you prove that which you so strenuously assert and suppose and to examine the Principles of that Authority whereunto you resolve all your faith and Religion If upon mature consideration these prove Solid and the Inferences you make from them Cogent it is good Reason that you should be attended unto If they prove otherwise if the first be false and the latter Sophistical you cannot justly take it ill of him that shall advise you to take heed that whilest you are gloriously displaying your Colours the ground that you stand upon do not sink under your feet And here you are forced to go many a step backward to fix your first footing untill you leave your Pope quite out of sight from whence you advance towards him by severall degrees and so arive at his Supremacie and Infallibility and so we shall have Reditum Diomedis ab interitu Meleagri 1. Your first Principle to this purpose is That Peter was the Prince of the Apostles and that in him the Lord Jesus founded a Monarchy in his Church So pag. 360. you call him the head and Prince of the whole Congregation Now this wee think no meet Principle for any one to begin withall in asserting the foundation of Faith and Religion Nor do we think that if it were meet so to be used that it is any way subservient unto your design and purpose 1. A Principle fundamental or first entrance into any way of Settlement in Faith or Religion it cannot possibly be because it presupposeth the knowledg of and assent unto many other great fundamental Articles of Christian Religion yea upon the matter all that are so For before you can rationally talk with a man about Peters Principality and the Monarchical state of the Church hereon depending you must suppose that he believes the Scripture 〈◊〉 be the Word of God and all things that are taught therein concerning Jesus Christ his Person Nature Offices Work and Gospell to be certainly and infallibly true for they are all supposed in your Assertion which without the knowledg of them is uncouth horrid insignificant and forraign to all notions that a man can rationally entertain of God or Religion Nay no attempt of proof or confirmation can be given unto it but by and from Scripture whereby you fall directly into the Principle which you seek so carefully to avoid namely that the Scripture is the only way and means of setling us in the Truth since you cannot settle any man in the very first proposition which you make to lead him into another way but by the Scripture So powerfull is Truth that those who will not follow it willingly it will lead them captive in Triumph whether they will or no. 2. It is unmeet for any purpose because it is not true No one word from the Scripture can you produce in its confirmation wherein yet if it be not revealed it must pass as a very uncertain and frivolous conjecture You can produce no suffrage of the Ancient Church unto your purpose which yet if you could would not presently render any Assertion so confirmed infallibly certain much less fundamental Some indeed of the 4 th Century call Peter Principem Apostolorum but explain themselves to intend thereby 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the first or Leader not 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the Prince or Ruler And when the ambiguity of that word began to be abused unto pretensions of Preeminence the Council of Carthage expresly condemned it allowing none to be termed Princeps Sacerdotum Many in those dayes thought Peter to be among the Apostles like the Princeps Senatus or Princeps Civi atis the chief in their Assemblies or Principall in dignity how truly I know not but that he should be amongst them and over them a Prince in Office a Monarch as to Rule and Power is a thing that they never once dreamed of and the Asseveration of it is an open untruth The Apostles were equall in their Call Office Place Dignity Employments All the difference between them was in their Labours Sufferings and Success wherein Paul seems to have had the pre-eminence who as Peter and all the rest of the Apostles every one singly and for himself had the care of all the Churches committed unto him thought it may be for the better discharge of their Duty ordinarily they divided their work as they found it necessary for them to apply themselves unto it in particular See 2 Cor. 11. And this equality between the Apostles is more than once insinuated by Paul and that with speciall reference unto Peter 1 Cor. 1. Gal. 1. 18 19. ch 2. 9. And is it not wonderfull that if this Assertion should not only be true but such a Truth as on which the whole faith of the Church was to be built that the Scripture should be utterly silent of it that it should give us no Rules about it no directions to use and improve it afford us no one instance of the exercise of the Power and Authority intimated no not one but that on the contrary it should lay down Principles exclusive of it Matth. 22. 25 26. Luk. 22. 26. And when it comes to make an enumeration of all the Offices appointed by Christ in his Church Eph. 4. 11. should pass over the Prince and his Office in silence on which all the rest were to depend You see what a Foundation you begin to build upon a meer
God in his Word than unto these Principles of yours is rejected by you out of the limits of the Catholick Church that is of Christianity for they are the same To make good your judgement and censure then you vent endless Cavils against the Authority Perfection and Perspicuity of the Scriptures pretending to despise and scorn whatever is offered in their viâ—dication This rope of Sand composed â— false suppositions groundless presumptions inconsequent inferences in all which there is not one word of infallible Truth at least that you can any way make appear so to be is the great Bond you use to gird men withall into the Unity of Faith In brief you tell us that if wee will all submit to the Pope wee shall be sure all to agree But this is no more but as I have before told you what every party of men in the world tender us upon the same or the like condition It is not a meer agreement wee aym at but an agreement in the Truth not a meer Vnity but a Unity of Faith and Faith must be built on Principles infallible or it will prove in the close to have been fancy not Faith carnall imagination not Christian belief otherwise wee may agree in Turcism or Judaism or Paganism as well as in Christianity and to as good purpose Now what of this kind do you tender unto us Would you have us to leave the sure word of Prophesie more sure than a voyce from Heaven the Light shining in the dark places of this world which wee are commanded to attend unto by God himself the Holy Scripture given by Inspiration which is able to make us wise unto Salvation the Word that is perfest sure right converting the Soul enlightning the eyes making wise the simple whose observation is attended with great reward to give heed yea to give up all our Spirituall and eternall concernments to the credit of old groundless uncertain Stories inevident presumptions fables invented for and openly improved unto carnal secular and wicked ends Is your request reasonable Would wee could prevail with you to cease your importunity in this matter especially considering â—the dangerous consequence of the admission of these your Principles unto Christianity in generall For if it be so that S t Peter had such an Episcopacy as you talk of and that a continuance of it in a Succession by the Bishops of Rome be of that indispensable necessity unto the preservation of Christian Religion as is pretended many men considering the nature and quality of that Succession how the means of its continuation have been arbitrarily and occasionally changed what place formerly popular Suffrage and the Imperial Authority have had in it how it came to be devolved on a Conclave of Cardinals what violence and tumults have attended one way what briberies and filthy respects unto the lusts of unclean Persons the other what Interruptions the Succession it self hath had by vacancies Schisms and contests for the place and uncertainty of the Person that had the best right unto the Popedome according to the customes of the dayes wherein he lived and that many of the Persons who have had a place in the pretended Succession have been plainly men of the world such as cannot receive the Spirit of Christ yea open enemies unto his Cross would find just cause to suspect that Christianity were utterly failed many Ages ago in the world which certainly would not much promote the Settlement in Truth and Unity of Faith that we are enquiring after And this is the first way that you propose to supply that Defect which you charge upon the Scripture that it is insufficient to reconcile men that are at variance about Religion and settle them in the Truth And if you are able by so many uncertainties and untruths to bring men unto a Certainty and Scttlement in the Truth you need not despair of compassing and thing that you shall have a mind to attempt But you have yet another Plea which you make no less use of than of the former which must therefore be also now you have engaged us in this work a little examined This is the Church its Authority and Infallibilâ—ty The truth is when you come to make a practical Application of this Plea unto your own use you resolve it into and confound it with that foregoing of the Pope in whom solely many of you would have this Authority and Infallibility of the Church to reside Yet because in your mannagement of it you proceed on other Principles than those before mentioned this pretence also shall be apart considered And here you tell us 1. That the Church was before the Scripture and giveth Authority unto it By the Scriptures you know that wee understand the Word of God with this â—ne Adjunct of its being written by his command and appointment We do not say that it belongs unto the Essence of the Word of God that it be written Whatever is spoken by God wee admit as his Word when wee are infallibly assured that by Him it was spoken and that wee should do so before himself doth not require at our hands for he would have us use our utmost diligence not to be imposed upon by any in his Name Therefore wee grant that the Word of God was given out for the Rule of men in his Worship two thousand years before it was written but it was so given forth as that they unto whom it came had infallible assurance that from Him it came and his Word it was And if you or any man else can give us such assurance that any thing is or hath been spoken by him besides what we have now written in the Scripture wee shall receive it with the same faith and obedience wherewith wee receive the Scripture its self Whereas therefore you say That the Church was before the Scripture if you intend no more but that there was a Church in the world before the word of God was written wee grant it true but not at all to your purpose If you intend that the Church is before the Word of God which at an appointed time was written it may possibly be wrested unto your purpose but is farre from being true seeing the Church is a society of men called to the knowledg and worship of God by his Ward They become a Church by the call of that Word which it seems you would have not given untill they are a Church of Effects produce their Causes Children beget their Parents Light brings forth the Sunne and Heat the Fire So are the Prophets and Apostles built upon the foundation of the Church whereof the Pope is the Corner stone So was the Judaical Church before the Law of iâ— constitution and the Christian before the Word of Promise whereon it was founded and the Word of Command by which it was edified In brief from the day wherein Man was first created upon the earth to the days wherein we live never did a Person or
it partly in a repetition in other words of what you had before insisted on The former I shall no further endeavour to disturb your contentment in It is a common error Neque est quisquam Quem non in aliquare videre Suffenum Possis I am not your Rivall in the admiration of it and shall therefore leave you quietly in the embracements of your Darling And for the latter we have had enough of it already and so by this time I hope you think also The close only of your Discourse is considerable and therefore I shall transcribe it for your second thoughts And it is this But Sir what you say here and so often up and down your book of Papists contempt of the Scripture I beseech you will please to abstain from it for the time to come I have conversed with the Roman Catholicks of France â—â—anders and Germany I have read more of your Books both Histories Contemptative and Scholastical Divines thâ—n I believe you have ever seen or heard of I have seen the Colledges of Sacred Priests and Religious houses I have communed with all sort of people and perused their Counsells And after all this I tell you and out of my love I tell you that their respect to Scripture is real absolute and cordial even to admiration Others may talk of it but they act it and would be ready to stone that man that should diminish Holy Writ Let us not wrong the innocent The Scripture is theirs and Jesus Christ is theirs who also will plead their Cause when he sees time What you mention of your own diligence and atchievements what you have done where you have been what you have seen and discoursed I shall not trouble you about It may be as to your souls health Tutior poter as esse domi But yet for all the report that you are pleased to make of your self it is not hard to discern that you and I Nec pondera rerum Nec momenta sumus And notwithstanding your Writings it would have been very difficult for any man to have guessed at your great reading had you not satisfied us by this your own information of it It may be if you had spared some of the time which you have spent in the reading of your Catholick Books unto the study of the Scripture it had not been unto your disadvantage In the mean time there is an Hyperbole in your confidence a little too evident For it is possable that I may and true that I have seen more of your Authors in half an hour then you can read I think in an hundred years unless you intend alwayes to give no other account of your reading then you have done in your Fiat and Epistola But we are weary of this 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Quin tu alium quaer as quoi centones farcias But to pass by this boasting there are two parts of your Discourse the one concerning the faith the other expressing the Charity of Roman Catholicks The first contains what respect you would be thought to have for the Scripture the latter what you really have for all other Christians besides your selves As to the former you tell me that I speak of the Papists contempt of the Scripture and desire me to abstain from it for the time to come Whither I have used that expression anywhere of contempt of the Scripture well I know not But whereas I look upon you as my friend at least for the good advice I have frequently given you I have deserved that you should be so and therefore shall not deny you any thing that I can reasonably grant and whereas I cannot readily comply with you in your present request as to the alteration of my mind in reference unto the respect that Papists bear unto the Scriptures I esteem my self obliged to give you some account of the reasons why I persist in my former thoughts which I hope as is usual in such cases you will be pleased to take in friendly part For besides Sir that you back your request with nothing but some overconfident asseverations subscribed with teste meipso I have many reasons taken from the practice and Doctrine of your Church that strongly induce me to abide in my former perswasion As 1. You know that in these and the neighbouring Nations Papists have publickly burned the Scriptures and destroyed more Copies of them then ever Antiochus Epiphanes did of the Jewish Law And if you should go about to prove unto me that Protestants have no great regard to Sacred Images that have been worshipped because in these and the neighbouring Nations they brakes and burned a great number of them I should not readily know what to answer you Nor can I entertain any such confidence of your abilities as to expect from you a satisfactory answer unto my instance of the very same nature manifesting what respect Papists bear unto the Scriptures 2. You know that they have imprisoned and burned sundry persons for keeping the Scripture in their houses or some parts of them and reading them for their instruction and comfort Nor is this any great sign of respect unto them no more then it is of mens respect to treason or murder because they hang them up who are guilty of them And 3. Your Church prohibiteth the reading of them unto Lay-men unless in some special cases some few of them be licenced by you so to do and you study sweat for arguments to prove the reading of them needless and dangerous putting them as translated into the Catalogue of Books prohibited Now this is the very mark and stamp that your Church sets upon these books which she disapproves and discountenanceth as pernicious to the faithful 4. Your Councel of Trent hath decreed that your unwritten Traditions are to be received with the same faith and veneration as the Scripture constituting them to be one part of the Word of God and the Scriptures another then which nothing could be spoken more in contempt of it or in reproach unto it For I must assure you Protestants think you cannot possibly contract a greater guilt by any contempt of the Scripture then you do by reducing it into order with your unwritten Traditions 5. You have added Books not only written with an humane and fallible Spirit but farced with actual mistakes and falshoods unto the Canon of the Scripture giving just occasion unto them who receive it from you only to question the Authority of the whole And 6. You teach the Authority of the Scripture at least in respect of us which is all it hath for Authority is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and must regard some in relation unto whom it doth consist depends on the Authority of your Church the readiest way in the world to bring it into Contempt with them that know what your Church is and what it hath been And 7. You plead that it is very obscure and unintelligible of its self and that in things of the
Scriptures could be of no more Authority then Aesops Fables were they not confirmed by the Testimony of your Church we are informed by one Brentius and we believe the information to be true because the saying is defended by Hosius de Authoritat Script Lib. 3. who adds unto it of his own Revera nisi nos Authoritas Ecclesiae doceret hanc scripturam esse Canoncam perexiguum apud nos pondus haberet the truth is if the Authority of the Church did not teach us that this Scripeure is Canomical it would be of very light weight unto us Such Cordial respects do you bear unto it And the forementioned Andradius Defens Con. Trid. Lib. 2. to the same purpose Neque enim in ipsis libris quibus sacra mysteria conscripta sunt quicquam in est Divinitatis quae nos ad credendum quae in illis continentur religione aliqua constring at sed Ecclesiae quae codices illos sacros esse docet antiquorum Patrum fidem pietatem commendat tanta inest vis amplitudo ut illis nemo sine gravissimâ impietatis nota possit repugnare neither is there in those books wherein the Divine Mysteries are written any thing or any character of Divinity or divine original which should on a religious account oblige us to believe the things that are contained in them But yet such is the force and Authority of the Church which teacheth thâ—se books to be sacred and commendeth the faith and piety of the Antient fathers that no man can oppose them without a grievous mark of impiety How by what means from whom should we learn the sense of your Church if not from your Council of Trent and such mighty Champions of it Do you think it equitable that we should listen to suggestions of every obscure Frier and entertain thoughts from them about the sense of your Church contrary to the plain assertion of your Councils and and great Rabbies And if this be the respect that in Catholick Countries is given to the Scripture I hope you will not find may of your Countrymen rivals with them therein It is all but Hayle and Crâ—cifie We respect the Scriptures but there is another part of Gods word besides them we respect the Scriptures but Traditions contain more of the Doctrine of Truth we respect the Scriptures but think it not meet that Christians be suffered to read them we respect the Scripture but do not think that it hath any character in it of its own Divine original for which we should believe it we respect the Scripture but yet we would not believe were it not commended unto us by our Church we respect the Scripture but it is dark obscure not intelligible but by the interpretation of our Church Pray Sir keep your respects at home they are despised by the Scripture it self which gives Testimony unto its own Authority Perfection Sufficiency to guide us to God Perspicuity and Certainty without any respect unto your Church or its Authority And we know its Testimony to be true And for our parts we fear that whilest these Joabs kisses of respect are upon your lips you have a sword in your right hands to let out all the Vitals of Divine Truth and Religion Do you think your general expressions of respect and that unto admiration are a covering long and broad enough to hide all this contempt and reproach that you continually poure upon the Scriptures Deal thus with your Ruler and see whether he will accept your Person Give him some good words in general but let your particular expressions of your esteem of him come short of what his state and regal dignity do require will it be well taken at your hands Expressions of the same nature with these instanced in might be collected out of your chiefest Authors sufficient to fill a volume and yet I never read nor heard that any of them were ever stoned in your Catholick Countreys whatever you intimate of the boyling up of your zeal into a rage against those that should go about to diminish it Indeed whatever you pretend this is your faith about the Scripture and therefore I desire that you would accept of this account why I cannot comply with your wish and not speak any more of Papists slighting the Scripture seeing I know they do so in the sense and way by me expressed and other wayes I never said they did so From the account of your Faith we may proceed to your Charity wherewith you close this Discourse Speaking of your Roman Catholicks you say the Scripture is theirs and Jesus Christ is theirs who will one day plead their Cause What do you mean Sir by theirs Do you intend it exclusively to all others so theirs as not to be the right and portion of any other It is evident that this is your sense not only because unless it be so the words have neither sense nor emphasis in them but also because suitably unto this sense you elsewhere declare that the Roman and the Catholick Church are with you one and the same This is your Charity fit to accompany and to be the fruit of the faith before discoursed of This is your Chatholicism the impaling of Christ Scripture the Church and consequently all acceptable Religion to the Roman Party and Faction down right Donatism the wretchedest Schism that ever rent the Church of God which makes the wounds of Christendome incurable and all hope of coalition in Love desperate Saint Paul directing one of his Epistles unto all that in every place call upon the name of our Lord Jesus Christ that no countenance from that expression of our Lord Jesus Christ might be given unto any surmize of his appropriating unto himself and those with him a peculiar interest in Jusus Christ he adds immediately both their Lord and ours the Lord of all that in every place call upon his name 1 Cor. 1. This was the old Catholicism which the new hath as much affinity unto as darkness hath to light and not one jot more The Scripture is ours and Christ is ours and what have any else to do with them what though in other places you call on the name of Jesus Christ yet he is our Lord not yours This I say is that wretched Schism which cloathed with the name of Catholicism which after it had slain it robbed of its name and garments the world for some ages hath groaned under and is like to do so whilst it is supported by so many secular advantages and interests as are subservient unto it at this day CHAP. 14. Of Reason Jews objections against Christ. PAg. 27. You proceed to vindicate your unreasonable Paragraph about Reason or rather against it What reason we are to expect in a dispute against the use of Reason in and about the things which are the highest and most proper object of it is easie for any one to imagine For by Reason in Religion we understand not meerly the Raâ—ocination
briefly mind you of the principles which you oppose in it and seek to evert by it as also of those which you intend to compass your purpose by Of the first sort are these 1. That the Lord Christ God and Man in one person is and ever continuâ—s to be the only absolute Monarchical Head of his own Church I suppose it needless for me to confirm this Principle by Testimonies of Scripture which it being a matter of pure Revelation is the only way of confirmation that it is capable of That he is the Head of his Church is so frequently averred that every one who hath but read the New Testament will assent unto it upon the bare repetition of the words with the same faith whereby he assents unto the writing its self whatever it be and we shall afterwards see that the notion of an Head is absolutely exclusive of competition in the matter denoted by it An Head properly is singly and absolutely so and therefore the substitution of another head unto the Châ—rch in the room of Christ or with him is perfectly exclusive of him from being so 2. That Christ as God-man in his whole person was never visible to the fleshly eyes of men and whereas as such he was Head of the Church as the Head of the Church he was never absolutely visible His humane nature was seen of old which was but something of him as he was and is the Head of the Church otherwise then by faith no man hath seen him at any time and it changeth the condition of the Church to suppose that now it hath a Head who being a meer man is in his whole person visible so far as a man may be seen 3. That the visibility of the Church consisteth in its publick profession of the Truth and not in its being objected to the bodily eyes of men It is a thing that faith may believe it is a thing that Reason may take notice of consider and comprehend the eyes of the body being of no use in this matter When a Church professeth the Truth it is the ground and pillar of it a City on a hill that is visible though no man see it yea though no man observe or contemplate on any thing about it It s own Profession not other mens observation constitutes it visible Nor is there any thing more required to a Churches visibility but its Profession of the Truth unto which all the outward advantages which it hath or may have of appearing conspicuously or gloriously to the consideration of men are purely accidental which may be separated from it without any prejudice unto its visibility 4. That the sameness of the Church in all Ages doth not depend on its sameness in respect of degrees of visibility That the Church be the same that it was is required that it profess the same Truth it did whereby it becomes absolutely visible but the degrees of this visibility as to conspicuousness and notoriety depending on things accidental unto the being and consequently visibility of Church do no way affect as unto any change Now from hence it follows 1. That the presence or absence of the Humane nature of Christ with or from his Church on earth doth not belong unto the visibility of it so that the absence of it doth no way inferr a necessity of substituting another visible head in his stead Nor was the presence of his humane Nature with his Church any way necessary to the visibility of it his conversation on the earth being wholly for other ends and purposes 2. That the presence or absence of the humane nature of Christ not varying his headship which under both considerations is still the same the supposition of another Head is perfectly destructive of the whole Headship of Christ there being no vacancy possible to be imagined for that supply but by the removal of Christ out of his place For he being the Head of his Church as God and man in his whole person invisible and the visibility of the Church consisting solely in its own profession of the Truth the absence of his humane nature from the earth neither changeth his own Headship nor prejudiceth the Churches visibility so that either the one or the other of them should induce a necessity of the supply of another Head Consider now what it is that you oppose unto these things You tell us â— That Christ was the Head of the Church in his humane nature delegated by and under Gâ—d to that purpâ—se You mean he was so absolutely and as man exclusively to his divine nature This your whole Discourse with the Inferences that you draw from this supposition abundantly manifests If you can make this good you may conclude what you please I know no man that hath any great cause to oppose himself unto you for you have taken away the very foundation of the being and 〈◊〉 of the Church in your supposition 2. You inform us That Christ by his Ascension into heaven ceased to be that Head that he was so that of necessity another must be substituted in his place and room and this we must think to be the Pope He is I confess absent from his Church here on earth as to his bodily appearance amongst us which as it was not necessary as to his Headship so he promised to supply the inconvenience which 〈◊〉 Disciples apprehended would ensue thereupon so that they should have great cause to rejoyce at it as that wherein their great advantage would lye John 16. 7. That this should be by giving us a Pope at Rome in his stead he hath no way intimated And unto those who know what your Pope is and what he hath done in the world you will hardly make it evident that the great advantage which the Lord Christ promised unto his Disciples upon his absence is made good unto them by his Supervisorship 3. You would have the visibility of the Church depend on the visibility of its Head as also its sameness in all ages And no one you are secure who is now visible pretends to be the Head of the Church but the Pope alone and therefore of necessity he it must be But Sir if the Lord Jesus Christ had had no other nature then that wherein he was visible to the eyes of men he could never have been a meet Head for a Church dispersed throughout the whole world nor have been able to discharge the Duty annexed by God unto that office And if so I hope you will not take it amiss if on that supposition I deem your Pope of whom millions of Christians know nothing but by uncertain rumors nor he of then to be very unmeet for the discharge of it And for the visibility of the Church I have before declared wherein it doth consist Upon the whole matter you do not only come short of proving the Indentity and Oneness of the Church to depend upon one visible Bishop as its Monarchical Head but also the
I desire to know whither you grant in him an Authority derived immediately from God in and over Ecclesiastical affairs as to convene Synods or Councils to reform things amiss in the Church as to the outward administration of them or do you think that he hath such power and Authority to make constitute or appoint Laws with penal Sanctions in and about things Ecclesiastical And Secondly Do you think that in the work which he hath to do for the Church be it what it will be may use the liberty of his own judgement directed by the light of the Scripture or that he is precisely to follow the declarations and determinations of the Pope If he have not this Authority if he may not use this liberty the good words you speak of Catholicks and give unto him signifie indeed nothing at all If then he hath and may you openly rise up against the Bulls Briefs and Interdicts of your Popes themselves and the universal practice of your Church for many Ages And therefore I desire you to inform me Thirdly Whether you do not judge him absolutely to be subject and accountable to the Pope for what ever he doth in Ecclesiastical affairs in his own Kingdoms and Dominions if you answer suitably to the Principles Maximes and practise of your Church you must say he is and if so I must tell you that whatever you ascribe unto him in things Ecclesiastical he acts not about them as King but in some other capacity For to do a thing as a King and to be accountable for what he doth therein to the Pope implyes a Contradiction Fourthly Hath not the Pope a power over his Subjects many of them at least to convent censure judge and punish them and to exempt them in Criminal Cases from his Jurisdiction And is not this a fair Supremacy that it is meet he should be contented withal when you put it into the power of another to exempt as many of his Subjects as he pleaseth and are willing from his Regal Authority 5. When you say that in matters of faith Kings for their own ease remit their Subjects to their Papal Pastor pag. 57. Whether you do not collude with us or indeed do at all think as you speak Do you think that Kings have real power in and about those things wherein you depend on the Pope and only remit their Subjects to him for their own ease You cannot but know that this one Concession would ruine the whole Papacy as being expresly destructive of all the foundations on which it is built Nor did ever any Pope proceed on this ground in his interposures in the world about matters of faith that such things indeed belonged unto others and were only by them remitted unto him for their ease 6. Whether you do not include Kings themselves in youâ— general Assertion pag. 55. That they who after Papal decisions remain contâ—nacious forfeit their Christianity And if so whether you do not at once overthrow all your other Splendid Concessions and make Kings absolute Dependents on the Pope for all the Priviledges of their Christianity and whether you account not among them their very Regal Dignity it self Whereby it may easily appear how much Protestant Kings and Potentates are beholding unto you seeing it is manifest that they live and rule in a neglect of many Papal Decisions and Determinations 7. Whether you do not very fondly pretend to prove your Roman Catholicks acknowledgement of the power of Princes to make Laws in Cases Ecclesiastical from the Laws of Justinian p. 59. whereas they are instances of Regal Power in such Cases plainly destructive of your present Hildebrandine faith and Authority and whether you suppose such Laws to have any force or Authority of Law without the Papal Sanction and confirmation 8. Whither you think indeed that Confession unto Priests is such an effectual means of securing the peace and interest of Kings as you pretend p. 59. and whether Queen Elizabeth King James Henry the third and fourth of France had cause to believe it and whether you learned this notion from Parry Raviliac Mariana Clement Parsons Allen Garnet Gerard Oldcome with their Associates 9. Whether you forgot not your self when you place Aaron and Joshuah in government together p. 64. 10. Whether you really believe that the Pope hath Power only to perswade in matters of Religion as you pretend p. 65. and if so from what Topicks he takes the Whips Wires and Racks that he makes use of in his Inquisition And whether he hath not a right even to destroy Kings themselves who will not be his Executioners in destroying of others I wish you would come out of the clouds and speak your mind freely and plainly to some of these enquiries Your present ambiguous discourse in the face of it faiâ—ed unto your interest gives no satisfaction whilest these snakes lye in the grass of it Wherefore leaving you a little to your second thoughts I shall enquire of your Masters and Fathers themselves what is the true sense of your Church in this matter and we shall find them speaking it out plainly and roundly For they tell us 1. That the Government of the whole Catholick Church is Monarchical A State wherein all Power is derived from one fountain one and the same Person This is the first Principle that is laid down by all your Writers in treating of the Church and its power and that which your great Cardinal Baronius layes as the foundation on whirh he builds the huge Structure of his Ecclesiastical Annals 2. That the Pope is this Monarch of the Church the Person in whom alone the Soveraign Rule of it is originally vested so that it is absolutely impossible that any other Person should have enjoy or use any Ecclesiastical Authority but what is derived from him I believe you suppose this sufficiently proved by Bellarmine or others Your self own it nor can deny it without a disclaimure of your present Papacy And this one Principle perfectly discovers the vanity of your pretended attributions of Power in Ecclesiastical things to Kings and Princes For to suppose a Monarchical estate and not to suppose all Power and Authority in that state to be deâ—ived from the Monarch in it and of it alone is to suppose a perfect contraiction or a State Monarchical that is not Monarchical Protestants place the Monarchical State of the Catholick Church in its relation unto Christ alone and therefore it is incumbent on them to assert that no man hath or can have a power in the Church as such but what is derived from and communicated unto him by him And you placing it in reference unto the Pope must of necessity deny that any power can be exercised in it but what is derived from him so that whatever you pretend in this kind to grant unto kings you allow it unto them only by concession or delegation from the Pope They must hold it from him in cheif or he cannot be the chief
your communion whilest you impose upon them a necessity of Celebrating the worship of God in a tongue unknown unto them amongst whom and for whose sâ—ke it is publickly celebrated The reasons you subjoyn to the concession you mention I presume are your own they are like to many others that you make use of The best sense of the entrance of your words that I can make is in that description they afford us of the worship of your Church as to the peoples concernment in it The words of it may â—it perching upon your lips as on the tongue of a Parrot or it may be may be got by heart or as we say without Book when the sense of them affects not your minds nor understandings at all If in these vain loose expressions you design any thing else it seems to be an opposition between reading and studying the Scriptures or joyning with understanding in the prayers of the Church the things under Consideration and the getting of the power of the word of God to dwell in the heart which is skilfully to oppose the means and the end and those placed in that relation not only by their natural aptitude but also by Gods express appointment and command So wisely also do you oppose reading and doing in general as though reading were not doing and a part of that obedience which God requires at our hands and a blessed means of helping and furthering us in the remainder of it For certainly that we may do the will of God it is required that we know it And what better way there is to come to the knowledge of the will of God then by reading and me litating in and upon the word of Truth wherein he hath revealed it with the advantage of the other means of his appointment for the same end in the publick preaching or proposition of it I am not as yet informed And I wish you had acquainted us with those two words of our Saviour and that one of the Apostle wherein they give us a Compendius of all Divine Truths For if it be so I am perswaded you will be to seek for your warrant in imposing your long Creeds and almost Volumes of Propositions to be believed as such But you cannot avoid mistakes in things that you might omit as not at all to your purpose Our Saviour indeed gives us the two general heads of those duties of Obedience which are required at our hands towards God and our Neighbours and the Apostle shews the Perfection of it to consist in Love with its due exercise but where in two or three words they give us the Compendium of all Divine Truths which we are to believe that we may acceptably perform the Obedidience that in general they describe we are yet to seek and shall be so for any information you are able to give us In your following Discourse you make a florish with what your Church hath in Gospels Epistles Good books Anniversary observations and I know not what besides But Sir we discourse not about what you have but what you have not nor will have though God command you to have it and threaten you for not having it You have not the Scripture ordinarily in a language that they can understand who if they are the Disciples of Christ are bound to read study and meditate in it continually which are therefore hindred by you in the discharge of their duty whilest you neither enter into the Kingdom of heaven your selves nor suffer them that would Nâ—y you have burned men and their Bibles together for attempting to discharge that duty which God requireth of them and wherein so much of their spiritual advantage is enwrapped Neither have you the entire worship of God in a tongue known to the people whereby they might joyn in it and pray with understanding and be edified by what they hear which the Apostle makes the end of all things done or to be done in publick Assemblies but are left to have their brutish affections led up and down by dumb shews pestures and gestures whereunto the Scripture and Antiquity are utter strangers These things you have not and which renders your Condition so much the worse you refuâ—e to have them though you may though you are entreated by God and man to make use of them yea where great and populous nations under your power have humbly petitioned you that by your leave and permission they might enjoy the Bible and that Service of God which they could understand you have chosen rather to run all things into confusion and to fall upon them with fire and sword then to grant them their request O curvae in terris animae caelestium inanes But you add Besides what you mention what can promote your Salvation for say you What further Good may it do to read the letter of St. Paul ' s Epistles to the Romans for example or Corinthians wherein Questions and Cases and Theological discourses are treated that vulgar people can neither understand nor are at all concerned to know And I pray you tell me ingenuously and without heat what more of Good could acrew to any by the translated letter of a book whereof I will be bold to say that nine parts in ten concern not my particular either to know or practice then by the conceived substance of Gods will unto me and my own duty towards him Sir I shall deal with you without any blameable heat yet so as he deserves to be dealt withall who will not cease to pervert the right wayes of the Lord. And 1. who taught you to make your apprehensions the measure of other mens faith and practice If you know not of any thing needfull to promote Salvation but what you reckon up in the usage of your Church hinder not them that do It is not so much your own practice as your Imposition of it on others that we are in the consideration of Would it worth suffice you to reject as to your own interest the means appointed of God for the furtherrance of our Salvation and that you would not compell others to joyn with you in the refusal of them Is it possible that a man professing himself a Divine a Priest of the Catholick Church an Instructor of the Ignorant an undertaker to perswade whole Nations to relinquish the way of Religion wherein they are engaged to follow him and his in wayes that they have not known should profess that he knows not of what use unto the promotion of the Salvation of the Souls of men the use of the whole Scripture given by inspiration of God is Be advised not to impose these conceptions of your fancy and mind as it seems unexercised in that heavenly treasury on those who have 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 senses exercised therein so as to be able to discern between good and evil It no other reason can prevail with you I hope experience may give you such a despair of success as to cause
acknowledge her a true Church as a theif is a true man who will not acknowledge her to be a pure Church much less most pure God be mercifull to poor worms this boasting doth not become us it is not unlike hers who cryed Is it as a Queen and shall see no sorrow I wish you begin to be sensible and ashamed of it But yet I fear it is otherwise for whereas in your Fiat you had proclaimed your Roman Church and Party to be absolutely innocent and unblameable you tell us pag. 10. of your Epistle that you can make it appear that it is far more innocent and amiable than you have made it more than absolutely innocent it seems a note so high that it sounds harshly And whereas we shall manifest your Church to have lost her native beauty we know that no painting of her which is all you can do will render her truly amiable unto a spirituall eye She hath too often defiled her self to pretend now to be lovely But to this you say I reply The Church that then was in the Apostles time was indeed true not the Roman Church that now is and adde So so then I say that former true Church must fall sometime or other when did she fall and how did the sall by Apostasie Heresie or Schisme S r you very lamely represent my Answer that you might seem to say something unto it when indeed you say nothing at all I discover unto you the equivocation you use in that expression the Church of Rome and shew you that the thing now so called by you had neither being nor name neither essence nor affection in the dayes of old it s very being is but the terminus as quem of a Churches fall I shewed you also that the Church of old that was pure fell not whilest it was so but that the men who succeeded in the place where they lived in the profession of Religion gradually fell from the purity of that profession which the Church at its first planting did enjoy But all that discourse you pass by and repeat again your former Question to which you subjoyn my first Answer which was it was possible she might fall by an Earthquake as did those of Colosse and Laodicea to which you We speak not here of any casuall or naturall downfall or death of mortals by Plague Famine or Earthquake but a morall and voluntary lapse in faith What do you speak to me of Earthquakes It is well you do so now explain your self your former enquiry was only in generall how or by what means she ceased to be what she had been before as though it were impossible to assign any such neither did I exclude the sense whereunto you now restrain your words And had I only shewed you that it was possible she might fall and come to nothing and yet not by any of the wayes or means by you mentioned without proceeding unto the consideration of them also yet your especiall enquiry being resolved into this generall one from whence it is taken how a pure flourishing Church may cease to be so I had rendred your enquiry useless unto your present purpose though I had not answered your intention For certainly that which ceaseth to be ceaseth to be pure seeing non entis nullae sunt affectiones The Church of the Brittains in this part of the â—sland now called England was once as pure a Church as ever was the Church of Rome yet she ceased to be long since and that neither by Apostasie Here sie nor Schisme but by the sword of the Saxons And to tell you the truth I do not think the old Church of Rome unconcerned in this instance then especially when Rome was left desolate by Totilas and without inhabitant for the Church of Rome is urbis and not as you vainly imagine orbiâ— Ecclesia Again I told you she might fall by Idolatry and so neither by Apostasie Heresie or Schisme To which you reply Good S r Idolatry is a mixt misdemeanour both in faith and manners I speak of the single one of faith and he that falls by Idolatry if he keep still some parts of Christianity entire he falls by Heresie by Apostasie if he keep none I am perswaded you are the first that ever gave this description of Idolatry and the last that will do so it is a mixt misdemeanour in faith and manners Manners you speak of in contradistinction to Faith and you so explain your self in which sense they relate only unto morall conversation regulated by the second Table That Idolatry hath been and is constantly attended with corruption in manners the Apostle declares Rom. 1. and I willingly grant but how in its self or its own nature it should come to be a mixt misdemeanour in faith and in manners I know not neither can you tell me which is the fleshy which is the fishy part of this Dagon what it is in it that is a misdemeanour in faith and what in manners According to this description of yours an Idolater should be an ill mannered or an unmannerly Heretick But you speak of the single misdemeanour in faith but who gave you leave so to restrain your enquiry I allowed you before to except against one instance whereby many a Church hath fallen but if you will except Idolatry and Manners also your endeavour to provide a shelter for your guilt is shamefull and vain For what you except out of your enquiry if you confess not to have been yet you do that it may be or might have been And you do wisely to let your Adversary know that he is to strike you only where you suppose your self armed but by all means must let your naked parts alone and doubtless he must needs be very wise who will take your advice The Church of Judah was once a pure Church in the dayes of David how came she then to fall by Apostasie Heresie or Schisme I answer if you will give me leave she fell by Idolatry and corruption of manners against both which the Prophets were protestants 2 King 17. 13. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 God protested against them by his Prophets Again the same Church reformed in the dayes of Ezra Nehemiah Zerubbabel 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the men of the Great Congregation was a pure Church how did it fall not by Idolatry as formerly but by corruption of life unbelief and rejecting the Word of God for superstitious traditions untill it became a den of Thieves You see then there are other wayes of a Churches falling from its pristine purity than those by you insisted on And if you shall enquire how it may fall you must exclude nothing out of your enquiry whereby it may do so and whereby some Churches have done so And if you will have my thoughts in this matter they are that the beginning of the fall of your Church and many others lay in unbelief corruption of life conformity to the world and other sins
that were found in the most of its members And it is a fancy to dream of the purity of a Church in respect of its outward order when the power and life of godliness is lost in its members and a wicked device to suppose a Church may not be separated from Christ by unbelief whilest it abides in an externall profession of the doctrine of faith Such a Church though it may have a name to live yet indeed is dead and dead things are unclean We speak of its purity and acceptation thereon in the sight of God neither will men dead in trespasses and sins be terrible unto any as an Army with banners unless they are like those in Lucilius who Vt pueri infantes credunt signa omnia ahena Vivere esse homines sic isti omnia ficta Vera putant credunt signis cor inesse ahenis as Lactantius reports him But you say If they fall by Idolatry and yet keep any parts of Christianity they fall by Heresie But why so would you had thought it incumbent on you to give a reason of what you say Are Idolatry and Heresie the same Tertullian who of all the old Ecclesiasticall Writers most enlargeth the bounds of Idolatry defines it to be omnis circa omne Idolum famulatus servitus Any worship or service performed in reference to or about any Idoll I do not remember that ever I met with your definition of Idolatry in any Author whatever Bellarmine seems to place it in Creaturum aeque colere ac Deum to worship the creature as much or equally with the Creator which description of it though it be vain and groundless for his aeque is neither in the Scripture nor any approved Author of old required to the constituting of the worship of any creature Idolatrous yet is not this Heresie neither but that which differs from it toto genere We know it to be cultus religiosus creaturae exhibitus any religious worship of that whish by nature is not God and so doth your Thomas grant it to be Gregory de Valentia another of your great Champions contends that tanqnam Deo as unto God is to be added unto the definition As though religious worship could be given unto any thing and not as unto God really and indeed though not intentionally as to the worshipper Where a man gives religious worship there he doth ipso facto assign a divine eminencie say he what he will to the contrary Neither will his intention of not doing it as unto God any more free him from Idolatry than an Adultress will be free by not looking on her Adulterer as her Husband I confess he adds afterwards a distinction that is of great use for you and indispensably necessary for your defence de Idol lib. 2 cap. 7. S t Peter he tells us insinuates some worship of Idols cultum aliquem simulachrorum to wit that of the holy Images to be right or lawfull when he deterreth believers ab illicitis Idolorum cultibus from the unlawfull worship of Idols 1 Pet. 4. 3. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 This were somewhat indeed if all epithetes were distinguishing none aggravating or declarative When Virgil said dulcia mella premes Geor. 4. he did not insinuate that there was any bitter honey Nor is it allowable only for Poets to use explaining and declaring epithetes but Aristotle allowes it in the best Oratours also so they use not 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 long or unseasonable ones or the same frequently and the use of this here by Peter is free from all those vices When the Romane Orator cryed out ô scelus detestandum O wickedness to be abhorred he did not intend to insinuate that there was a wickedness not to be abhorred or to be approved But if it will follow hence that your Church is guilty only of lawfull Idolatry I shall not much contend about it Yet I must tell you that as the poor woman when the Physicians in her sickness told her still that what she complained of was a good sign cryed out 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 good signes have undone me your lawfull Idolatry if you take not better heed will undo you In the mean time as to the coincidence you imagin between Idolatry and Heresie I wish you would advise with your Angelicall Doctor who will shew you how they are contradistinct evils which he therefore weighs in his scales and determines which is the heaviest 22 ae q. 94. a. ad 4. The Church in the wilderness fell by its 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 its making and worshiping a golden Calfe as a representation of the presence of God That they kept some parts of the Doctrine of Truth entire is evident from their proclamation of a feast to Jehovah Do any men in their wits use to say this fall was by Heresie though all agree it was by Idolatry so that your Church might fall by Idolatry and not fall formally by Heresie according to the genuine importance of the word the use of it in the Scriptures or the definition given of it by the Schoolmen or any sober Writer of what sort soever And here I must desire you to stay a little if you intend to take Protestants along with you They constantly return this Answer unto you in the first place and tell you that your Church is fallen by Idolatry It is fallen in the worship which you give unto the Consecrated Host as you call it wherein if the Scriptures which call it bread and the Fathers who terme it the figure of the body of Christ if Reason and all our senses deceive us not you are as plainely Idolatrous as the poor wretches which fall down and worship a piece of Red Cloth So your own Costerus assures us Enchirid. cap. 8. Tolerabilior saith he est eorum error qui pro Deo solunt statuam auream aut argenteam aut alterius materis imaginem quomodo Gentiles Deos suos venerabantur vel pannum rubrum in hastam elevatum quod narratur de Lappis vel viva animalia at quondam Aegyptii quam eorum qui frustum panis colunt Their errour is more tolerable who worship a golden or silver Statue or an Image of any other matter for a God as the Gentiles worshipped their Gods or a ragge of Red Cloth lifted upon a spear as it is reported of the Laplanders or living Creatures as did the Egyptians of old than theirs who worship a piece of bread This is that which made Averoes cry out seeing the Christians eat the God whom they worship let my soul be among the Philosophers You do the same in your worship of the Cross which the chiefest among you maintain â—o be the same that is due to Christ himself And you are in the same path still in the religious adoration you give unto the blessed Virgin your prayers to her and invocations of her which abound in all your books of Devotion and generall practice And what need we mention any
particular instances when you have begun some of your Conciliary actions the greatest solemnities of Christianity amongst you with invocation of her for help and assistance So did your Councell of Lateran joyning with Cardinall Cajetan in their opening of the second Session in these words Quoniam nihil est quod homo de semetipso sine auxilio opeque divina possit polliceri ad Gloriosam ipsam Virginem Dei matrem primum convertam orationem meam Seeing there is nothing that a man may promise to himself as of himself without divine help and assistance I will first turn my prayer unto the Glorious Virgin the mother of God This was the Doctrine this the Practice this the Idolatry of your Lateran Councell And again in the 7 th Session Deiparae nostrae presidium imploremus let us pray for the help or protection of our blessed mother of God And in the 10 th Session of the same Councell Stephen Arch◠bishop of Patras prays Vt ipsa beata Virgo Angelorum Domina fons omnium Gratiarum quae omnes Hereses interemit cujus opera magus reformatio Concordia Principum vera contra Infideles expeditio fieri debet opem ferre dignetur That the blessed Virgin the Lady of Angels the fountaion of all Graces who destroyeth all heresies by whose assistance the great Reformation the Agreement of Princes and sincere expedition against the Infidels the business of that Councell ought to be performed would vouchsafe to help him that he might c. And thereupon sings this Hymne unto her recorded in the Acts of the Councell Omnium Splendor decus perenne Virginum Lumen genetrix superni Gloria humani generis Maria unica nostri Sola Tu Virgo dominaris astris Sola Tu Terrae Maris atque Coeli Lumen inceptis saveas rogamus Inclyta nostris Vt queam sacros reserare sensus Qui latent chart is nimium severi Ingredi celsae duce te benigna Maeniaterra O Mary the beauty honour and everlasting light of all Virgins the mother of the Highest the only glory of mankind Thou Virgin alone rulest the Stars Thou alone are the light of Earth Sea and Heaven do thou O glorious Lady wee entreat prosper my endeavours That I may unfold the sacred senses which lye hid in the too severe writings of the Scripture and kindly give me under thy goodness to enter the walls of the heavenly Countreys I suppose it cannot be doubted whence the pattern of this Conciliary Prayer was taken it is but an imitation of Phaebe Sylvarúmque potens Diana Lucidum Coeli decus O colendi Semper culti date quae precamur tempore sacro Alme Sol curru nitido diem qui Promis celas aliusque idem Nasceris possis nihil urbe Roma visere majus Rite maturos aperire partus Lenis Itithia tuere matres Sive tu Lucina probas vocari seu Genitalis Diva And if this be not plainely to place her in the Throne of God I know not what can be imagined so to do Your worship of Angels and of Saints is of the same importance concerning whom you do well to entitle your Paragraph Hero's your Doctrine and Practice concerning them being the very same with those of the antient Heathen in reference unto their Daemons and Hero's So your own Learned Vives confesseth of many of you in August de Civit. Dei lib. 28. cap. ult Multi Christiani saith he Divos Divasque non aliter venerantur quam Deum nes video in multis quod sit discrimen inter eorum opinionem de Sanctis id quod Gentiles putabant de suis Diss. Many Christians worship hee and shee Saints no otherwise than they do God neither do I see in many things what difference there is between their opinion concerning the Saints and that which the Heathen thought of their Gods And it is known what Polidore Virgil before him affirmed to the same purpose Your Idolatry in the worship of Images of all sorts shall be afterwards declared Be then this a single or mixt misdemeanour it matters not a misdemeanour it is whereby we affirm that the Roman Church is fallen from its pristine purity And this we think is a full answer unto your enquiry We need not you cannot compell us to go one step farther But our way is plain and invites us I shall therefore proceed to let you see once again that she is fallen by all the wayes you thought meet to confine your enquiry unto You proceed finding your self puzled in the third place you lay on load she fell say you by Apostasie Idolatry Heresie Schisme Licentiousness and prophaneness of Life And in this you do not much unlike the drunken youth who being bid to hit his Masters finger with his when he perceived he could not do it he ran his whole fist against it Seriously S r you have the worst success in your Attempts for a little wit and merriment that ever I met with If you would take my advice you should not strain your Genius for that which it will not affoard you you forget the old rule Tu nihil invita dies faciesve Minerva Any other diversion were better than this which proves so succesless Yet I must confess you deserve well of pastime seeing to serve its interests you so often make your self ridiculous as you now do in this pittifull story And I cannot tell you whether my Answer have touched your finger or no but I am sure if it be true it strikes your Cause to the heart and I am as sure of the Truth of it as I am that I am alive And you see how I am pusled even as he was who cryed inopem me copia fecit Your Church hath fallen so many wayes all so foully and evidently that it is hard for any man to chuse what instance to insist upon who is called on to charge her as you by your enquiry of them do on your Protestant Readers And for my part I had rather you should take your choyce against which of the things mentioned you think your self best able to defend her And may it please you to chuse your Instance if I prove not your Church to have fallen by it I will promise you to become a Papist You proceed to your own particulars and ask Did shee fall by Apostasie to which you subjoyn my words by a partiall not a totall one with your reply Good S r in this division Apostasie is set to express a totall relapse in opposition to Heresie which is the partiall I see you have as little mind to be drawn to the consideration of your Apostasie as of your Idolatry and would fain post off all to Heresie under a corrupt notion of which terme you hope to find some shelter for your self and your Church although in vain But Verte omnes tete in facies contrahe quicquid Sive animis sive arte vales You must bear the charge of
walk in the steps of their faith herein It believed that all Image-worship was forbidden Exod. 20. And whether you abide in the same perswasion we shall afterwards examine And many more instances of the like kind you may at any time be minded of You hast to that you would fain be at which will be found as little to your purpose as those whose consideration you so carefully avoid You say Did she fall by Heresie in adhering to any errour in Faith contrary to the approved doctrine of the Church Here you smile seriously and tell me that since I take the Roman and Catholick Church to be one she could not indeed adhere to any thing but what she did adhere unto S r I take them indeed to be one but here I speak ad hominem to one that doth not take them so And then if indeed the Roman Church had ever swerved in faith as you say she has and be her self as another ordinary particular Church as you say she is them might you find some one or other more generall Church if any there were to judge her some Oecumenicall Councell to condemn her some Fathers either Greek and Latin expresly to writs against her as Protestants now do some or other grave Authority to censure her or at least some company of Believers out of whose body she went and from whose faith she fell None of which since you are not able to a assign wherein you have spoken more rightly than you were aware of for not to be able to assign none of them infers at least an ability to assign some if not all of them my Query remains unanswered and the Roman still as flourishing a Church as ever she was Answ. 1. You represent my Answer lamely I desire the Reader to consult it in the Animadversions pag. 66 67 68. What you have taken notice of discovers only your fineness in making Heresie an adherence to an errour in faith contrary to the doctrine of the Church and your selves the Church whereby you must needs be secured from Heresie though you should adhere to the most hereticall Principles that ever were broached in the world But nothing of all this as I have shewed will be allowed you 2. As we have seen some of the Reasons why you were so unwilling to try the Cause of your Church on the heads of Idolatry and Apostasie so here you discover a sufficient Reason why you have passed over your other head of Schism in silence You avow your self one of the most schismaticall Principles that were ever adhered unto by any professing the name of Christ. The Roman Church and the Catholick are with you one and the same Is not this Petilianus his in parte Donati nay Basilides his 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Epiphan Heres 4. We only are men all others are Dogs and Swine Macte virtute If this be not to shew modcration and to persue reconciliation at once to shut out all men but your selves from the Church here and consequently Heaven hereafter what can be thought so to be In earnest S r you may talk what you please of moderation but whilest you avow this one wretched schismaticall Principle you do your endeavour to exclude all true Christian moderation out of the world 3. Why do you conclude that your Query is not answered Suppose one Question could not be answered doth it necessarily follow that another cannot I suppose you take notice that this is another Question and not that at first proposed as I told you before Your first enquiry was about your Churches crime this is about her conviction and condemnation and your Conclusion hath no strength in it but what is built on this unquestionable Maxim that None ever offended who was not publickly judged as though there were no Harlot in the world but those that have been carted It is enough S r that her condition is sub judice as it will be whether you or I will or no and that there is not evidence wanting for her conviction nor ever was since her fall though it may be it hath not at all times been so publickly managed And yet so vain is your triumphant Conclusion that we rest not here but prove also that she hath been of old judged and condemned as you will hear anon And thus I have once more given you an Answer to your enquiry how your Church fell namely that she hath done so by all the wayes and means by which it is possible for a Church to fall She failed under the just hand of God when the persons of that Vrbick Church were extirpated partly by others but totally by Totilas as the Brittish Church in England fell by the sword of the Saxons She hath fallen by Idolatry and corruption of life as did the Church of the Jews before the Captivity She hath fallen by her relinquishment of the written Word as the only rule of faith and worship and by adhering to the uncertain traditions of men as did the Church of the Jews after their return from captivity She hath fallen by Apostasie in forsaking the profession of many important truths of the Gospel as the Church of the Galatians did for a season in their relinquishment of the doctrine of Justification by grace alone She hath fallen by Heresie in coyning new Articles of faith and imposing them on the consciences of the Disciples of Christ as the Montanists did with their new Paraclete and rigid observances She hath fallen by Schisme in her self as the Judaical Church did when divided into Essenes Sadduces and Pharisees setting up Pope against Pope and Councell against Councell continuing in her intestine broils for some ages together and from all others by the wretched Principle but-now avowed by you as the Donatists did of old She hath fallen by Ambition in the Hildebrandine Principle asserting a Soveraignty in the Pope over the Kings and Potentates of the earth whereof I can give you no precedent instance unless it be of him who claimed the Kingdomes of the world to be his own and boasted that he disposed of them at his pleasure Mat. 4. And now I hope you will not take it in ill part that I have given you a plain Answer unto your Question which as I suppose was proposed unto us for that end and purpose But although these things are evident and sufficiently proved yet I see nothing will satisfie you unless we produce testimonies of former times to manifest that your Church hath been arraigned judged condemned written against by Fathers Councils or other Churches Now though this be somewhat an unreasonable expectation in you and that which I am no way bound unto by the Law of our Discourse to satisfie you in yet to prevent for the future such Ivasions as you have made use of on all occasions in your Epistle I shall in a few pregnant and unquestionable Instances give you an account both when how and by whom the falls of your Church have been
The Councell of Pisa deposed Gregory the twelfth and Benedict the thirteenth for Schismaticks and Hereticks The Councell of Constance accused John the twenty third of abominable Heresie Sess. 11. And that of Basil condemned Eugenius as one à fide devium pertinacem Haereticum Sess. 34. an erroneous Person and obstinate Heretick Other instances of the like nature might be called over manifesting that your Popes have erred and been condemned as persons erroneous and therein the Principle of their In fallibility I would be unwilling to tire your patience yet upon your reiterated desire I shall present you with one Instance more and I will do it but briefly because I must deal with you again about the same matter 5. Your Church is fallen by Idolatry as otherwise so in that Religious Veneration of Images which she useth whereunto you have added Heresie in teaching it for a Doctrine of Truth and imposing the belief of it by your Tridentine Determination on the Consciences of the Disciples of Christ. I know you would fain mince the matter and spread over the corrupt Doctrine of your Church about it with 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 silken words as you do the Posts that they are made of with Gold when as the Prophetspeaks of your predecessors in that work you lavish it out of the bagge for that purpose But to what purpose Your first Councell the second of Nice which yet was not wholly yours neither for it condemns Honorius calls Thâ—rnsius the Oecumenicall Patriarch and he expounds in it the Rock on which the Church was built to be Christ and not Peter your last Councell that of Trent your Angelicall Doctor Thomas of Aquine your great Champions Bellarmine and Baronius Suarez Vasquez and the rest of them with the Catholick practise and usage of your Church in all places declare sufficiently what is your faith or rather misbelief in this matter Hence Azorius Institut Lib. 9 cap. 6. tells us that Constans est Theologorum sententia Imaginem èodem honore cultu coli quo colitur id cujus est Imago It is the constant judgement of Divines that the Image is to be worshipped with the same honour and worship wherewith that is worshipped whose Image it is The Nicene Councell by the instigation of Pope Adrian Anathematizeth every one who doth but doubt of the Adoration of Images Act. 7. Thomas contendeth that the Cross is to be worshipped with Latria p. 3. q. 25. a. 4. which is a word that he and you suppose to express Religious worship of the highest sort And your Councell of Trent in their decree about this matter confirmed the Doctrine of that Lestricall convention at Nice whose frauds and impostures were never paralleled in the world but by it's self And do you think that a few ambiguous flourishing words of you an unknown person shall make the world believe that they understand not the Doctrine and Practise of your Church which is proclaimed unto them by the Fathers and Mâ—sters of your perswasion herein and expressed in practises under their eyes every day Do you think it so easie for you Cornieum oculos configere as Cicero tells us an Atturney one Cn Flavius thought to do in going beyond all that the great Lawyers had done before him Orat. pro Muraena We cannot yet be perswaded that you are so great an Interpreter of the Roman Oracles as to believe you before all the Sages before mentioned to whom hundreds may be added And what do you think of this Doctrine and Practise of your Church Hath it been opposed judged and condemned or no The first Writers of Christianity Just In Martyr Irenaeus Origen Tertullian Arnobius Lactantius utterly abhorred the use of all Images at least in Sacris The Councell held at Elibâ—ris in Spain twâ—ve or thirteen years before the famous Assembly at Nice positively forbid all use of Pictures in Churches Can. 36. Plaquit Picturas in Ecclesia esse non debâ—re ne quod colitur adoratur in parietibus depingatur The Councell resolved that Pictures ought not to be in Churches that 〈◊〉 which is worshipâ—d and adored be not painted on walls Cyprian condemns it Epist. ad Demetriad And so generally do all the Fathers as may be gathered in the pittifull endeavours and forgeries of the second Nicene Councell endeavouring to confirm it from them Epiphanius reckons it among the errors of the Gnosticks and himself brake an Image that he found hanging in a Church Epist ad Johan Hierosol Austin was of the same judgement see Lib. de moriâ— Eccles. Cathol cap. 34. Your Adoration of them iâ— expresly condemned by Gregory the great in an Epistle to Serinus Lib. 7. Ep. 111 and Lib. 9. Epist. 9. The Greek Church condemned it in a â—ynod at Constantinople an 775. And one learned man in those last dayes undertaking its defence and indeed the only man of learning that ever did so untill of late they excommunicated and cursed him This was Damascenus concerning whom they used those expressions repeated in the second Nicene Councell 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Unto Mansour of an evil name and in judgement consenting with Saracens Anathema To Mansour a worshipper of Images and writer of Falshood Anathema To Mansour contumelious against Christ and traytor to the Empire Anathema To Mansour a teacher of impiety and perverse interpreter of Scripture Anathema Synod Nic. 2. Act. 6. For that it was Johannes Damascenus that they intended the Nicene Fathers sufficiently manifest in the Answer following read by Epiphanius the Deacon And this reward did he meet withall from the seventh Councell at Constantinople for his pains in asserting the veneration of Images although he did not in that particular pervert the Scripture as some of you do but laid the whole weight of his opinion on Tradition wherein he is followed by Vasquez among your selves Moreover the Western Churches in a great Councell at Frankeford in Germany utterly condemned the Nicene Determination which in your Tridentins Convention you approve and ratifie An. 794. It was also condemned here by the Church of England and the Doctrine of it fully confuted by Albinus Hoveden Annal. an 791. Never was any Heresie more publickly and solemnly condemned than this whereby your Church is fallen from its pristine purity But hereof more afterwards It were no difficult matter to procced unto all the Chief ways whereby your Church is fallen and to manifest that they have been all publickly disclaimed and condemned by the better and founder part of Professors But the Instances Insisted on may I hope prove sufficient for your satisfaction I shall therefore proceed to consider what you offer unto the remaining Principles which I conceived to animate the whole Discourse of your Fiat Lux. CHAP. V. Other Principles of Fiat Lux re-examined Things not at quiet in Religion before Reformation of the first Reformers Diparture from Rome no Cause of Devisions Returnal unto Rome no means of Union YOu proceed unto the fourth Assertion
quiver are these arrows taken Is this fair sober Candid Christian dealing have you no way to defend the Authority of your Church but by Questioning the Authority of the Scripture Did ever any of the Fathers of old or any in the world before your selves take this course to plead their interests in any thing they professed Is this Practice Catholick or like many of your Principles singular your own Donatisticall Is it any great sign that you have an interest in that living Child when you are so ready he should be destroyed rather than you would be cast in your Contest with Protestants 2. Do you think that this course of proclaiming to Atheists Turks and Pagans that the Scripture which all Christians maintain against them to be the Word of the Living GOD given by inspiration from Him and on which the Faith of all the Martyrs who have suffered from their opposition rage and cruelty and of all others that truly believe in Jesus Christ was and is founded and whereinto it is resolved hath no Arguments of its Divine Original implanted on it no lines of the Excellencies and Perfections of its Author drawn on it no power or efficacy towards the Consciences of men evidencing its Authority over them no ability of its self to comfort and support them in their tryals and sufferings with the hope of things that are not seen Is this think you an acceptable service unto the Lord Christ who will one day judg the secrets of all hearts according unto that Word or Is it not really to expose Christian Religion to scorn and contempt And do you find so much sweetness in Delus an Virtus quis in hoste requirat as to cast off all Reverence of God and his Word in the pursuit of the supposed Adversaries of your earthly Interests 3. If your Arguments and Objections are effectuall and privalent unto the end for which you intend them will not your direct issue be the utter overthrow of the very foundation of the whole Profession of Christians in the world And are you like Sampson content to pull down the house that must fall upon your selves also so that you may stifle Protestants with its sall It may be it were well you should do so were it an house of Dagon a Temple dedicated unto Idols but to deal so with that wherein dwels the Majesty of the Living GOD is not so justifiable It is true Evert this Principle and you overthrow the foundation on which the faith of Protestants is built but it is no less true that you do the same to the foundation of the Christian Faith in generall wherein wee hope your own concernment also lyes And this is the thing that I am declaring unto you namely that either you acknowledg the Principles on which Protestants build their Faith and Profession or by denying them you open a door unto Atheism at least to the extirpation of Christian Religion out of the world I confess you pretend a relief against the present instance in the Authority of your Church sufficient as you say to give a Credibility unto the Scriptures though its own self-evidencing Power and Efficacy with the Confirmation of it by Catholick Tradition exclusive to your present suffrage be rejected Now I suppose you will grant that the Prop you supply men withall upon your casting down the foundations on which they have laid the weight of their eternall Salvation had need be firm and immoveable And remember that you have to do with them who though they may be otherwise inclineable unto you Non tamen ignorant quid distent aera a lupinis and must use their own judgement in the Consideration of what you tender unto them And they Ask you 1. What will you do if it be as you say with them who absolutely reject the Authority of your Châ—â—ch which is the condition of more than a moyety of the Inhabitants of the world to speak sufficiently within compass And 2. What will you advise us to say to innumerable other Persons that are pious and rational who upon the meer consideration of the lives of many of the most of the guides of your Church your bloody inhumane practices your pursuit of worldly carnall designs your visible secular interest wherein you are combined and united cannot perswade themselves that the Testimony of your Church in and about things that are invisible spirituall heavenly and eternall is at all valuable much less that it is sufficient to bear the weight you would lay upon it 3. Was not this the way and method of Vaninus for the Introduction of his Atheism first to question sleight and sophistically except against the old approved Arguments and Evidences manifesting the beeing and existence of a Divine self-subsisting Power substituting in their room for the confirmation of it his own Sophisms which himself knew might be easily discussed and disproved Do you deal any better with us in decrying the Scripture's self-evidencing Efficacy with the Testimony given unto it by God himself substituting nothing in the room thereof but the Authority of your Church A man certainly can take up nothing upon the sole Authority of your Church untill contrary to the pretensions Reasons and Arguments of far a greater number of Christians than your selves he acknowledge you to be a true Church at least if not the only Church in the world Now how I pray will you bring him into that state and condition that he may rationally make any such judgement How will you prove unto him that there is any such thing as a Church in the World that a Church hath any Authority that its Testimony can make any thing credible or meet to be believed You must prove these things to him or whatever assent he gives unto what you say is from fanaticall credulity To suppose that he should believe you upon your word because you are the Church is to suppose that he believes that which you are yet but attempting to induce him to believe If you persist to press him without other proof not only to believe what you first said unto him but also even this that whatever you shall say to him hereafter that he must believe it because you say it Will not any rationall man nauseate at your unreasonable importunity and tell you that men who have a mind to be befooled may meer with such Alchymisticall pretenders all the world over Will you perswade him that you are the Church and that the Church is furnished with the Authority mentioned by rational Arguments I wish you would inform me of any one that you can make use of that doth not include a Supposition of something unproved by you and which can never be proved but by your own Authority which is the thing in Question or the immediate Authority of God which you reject A number indeed of pretences or it may be Probabilities you may heap together which yet upon examination will not be found so much neither unless a
we also do Strom. 4. To this purpose speaks Salvianus de Gub. Lib. 3. Alia omnia idest humana dicta argumentis testibus egent Dei autem Sermo ipse sibi test is est quia necesseest ut quicquid incorrupta verityas loquitur incorruptum sit testimonium veritatis All other sayings stand in need of Arguments and witnesses to confirm them the Word of God is witness to its self For whatever the Truth incorrupted speaks must of necessity be an incorrupt Testimony of Truth And although some of them allowed the Testimony of the Church as a motive unto believing the Gospell or things preached from it yet as to the belief of the Scripiure with faith Divine and Supernaturall to be the Word of God they required but these two things 1. That Self-Evidence in the Scripture its self which is needfull for an indemonstrable Principle from which and by which all other things are to be demonstrated And that Self-Evidence Clemens puts in the place of all Demonstrations 2. The Efficacy of the Spirit in the heart to enable it to give a saving assent unto the Truth proposed unto it Thus Austin in his Confessions Lib. 6. cap. 5. Persuasisti mihi ô Domine Deus non eos qui crederent libris tuis quos tanta in omnibus ferè Gentibus authoritate fundasti esse culpandos sed eos qui non crederent new audiendesesse siqui mihi forte dicerent Unde scis illos libres unius veracissimi Dei Spirituesse humano generi ministratos idipsum enim maximè credendum erat O Lord God thou hast perswaded me that not they who believe thy Books which with so great Authority thou hast setled almost in all Nations were to be blamed but those who believe them not and that I should not hearken unto any of them who might chance to say unto me Whence dost thou know those Books to be given out unto mankind from the Spirit of the only True GOD for that is the thing which principally was to be believed In which words the holy man hath given us full direction what to say when you come upon us with that Question which some used it seems in his dayes A great Testimony of the Antiquity of your Principles Adde hereunto what he writes in the 11 th Book and 3 d Chapter of the same Treatise and wee have the summe of the Resolution and Principle of his Faith Audiam saith he intelligam quomodo fecisti Coelam terram Scripsit hoc Moses scripsit abiit transivit hinc ad Te. Neque enim nunc ante me est nam si esset tenerem eum rogaremeum per Teobsecrarem ut mihi ist a paâ—derct praberem aures corporis mei sonis erumpentibus ex ere ejus At si Hebraea voce loqueretur frustra pulsaret sensum meum nec inde mentem meam tangeret si autem Latinè scirem quid diceret sed Unde scirem an verum dicoret quod si hoc scirem num ab illâ— scirem Intus utique mihi intus in domicilio cogitationis nec Hebraea nec Graeca nec Latina nec barbara verityas sine oris linguae organis sine strepitu syllabarum diceret verum diâ—it ego statim â—â—tus confidenter illi homini tuo dicerem Verumolits Cum ergo illum interrogare non possim Te quo 〈◊〉 vera dixit Veritas rogo Te Deus meus rogo partepeccatis meis qui illi servo tuo dedisti haec dicere 〈◊〉 mihi haEc intelligere I would bear and understand O Lord how thou hast made the Heavens and the earth Moses wrote this he wrote it and is gene and he is gone to Thee For now he is not present with mee if he were I would lay hold on him and ask him and beseech him for thy sake that he would unfold these things unto me and I would cause the ears of my body to attend unto the words of his mouth But if he should speak in the Hebrew tongue he would only in vain strike upon my outward sense and my mind within would not be affected with it If he speak in Latine I should know what he sayed but whence should I know that he spake the Truth should I know this also from him The Truth that is neither Hebrew Greck Latine nor expressed in any Barbarous Language would say unto me inwardly in the dwelling place of my thoughts without the organs of mouth or tongue or noyse of syllables He speaks the Truth and I with confidaence should say unto him thy servam Thou speakest the Truth Seeing therefore I cannot enquire of him I beseech Thee that art Truth with whom he being filled spake the Truth I beseech thee O my God pardon my sinnes and thou who gavest unto him by servant to speak these things grant unto me tounderstand Thus this holy man ascribes his assent into the one unquestionable Principle of the Scripture as to the effecting of it in himself to the work if Gods Spirit in his heart As Basil also doth on Psal. 11. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Faith which draws the soul unto consent above the efficacy of all rational wayes or methods of perswasion Faith that is wrought and begotten in us not by geometricall enforcements or demonstrations but by the effectuall operations of the Spirit And both these Principles are excellently expressed by one amongst your selves even Baptista Mantuanus Lib. de Patientia Cap. 32 33. Saepenumerò faith he mecum cogitavi Unde tam sâ—adibilis esset ista Scriptura ut tam potenter insluat in animos auditorum unde tantum habeat energiae ut non adopinandum sed ad solidè credendum omnes inflectat I have often thought with my self Whence the Scripture is so perswasive whence it doth so powerfully influence the minds of the hearers whence it hath so much efficacy that it should incline and bow all men not to think as probable but solidly to believe the things it proposeth Non saith he est hoc imputandum rationum evidentiaequas non adducit non artis industriae verbis suavibus ad persuadendum accommodatis quibus non utitur It is not to be ascribed unto the evidence of Reasons which it bringeth not neither to the excellency of Art sweet words and accommodated unto per swasion which it makes no use of Sed vide an id in causa sit quod persuasi sumus eam à prima veritate flâ—xisse But see if this be not the Cause of it that wee are perswaded that it proceeds from the prime Verity He proceeds Sed unde sumus ita persuasi nisi ab ipsa quasi ad ei credendum non sua ipsiâ—â— trahat Authoritas Sed unde quaeso hanc sibi Authoritatem vindicavit Neque enim vidimus nos Deum concionantem scribentem docentem tamen ac si vidissemus credimus tenemus à Spiritu Sancto fluxisse quod legimus Forsitan
himself as that nothing more abominable can be invented The Devil of old being not able to give out certain Answers unto them that came to onquire about their Concernments at his Oracles put them off a long time with dubious aenigmaticall unintelligible Sophisms But when once the world had by experience study and observation improved its self into a Wisdome beyond the pitch of its first rudeness men began generally to despise what they saw could not be certainly understood This made the Devil pluck in his horns as not finding it for the interest of his kingdome to expose himself to be scoffed at by them with whose follies and fanaticall credulity in esteeming highly of that which could not be understood he had for many generations sported himself And do they not blasphemously expose the Oracles of the true holy and living God to no less contempt who for their own sinister ends would frighten men from them with the ugly scare-crow of obscurity or their not being intelligible unto every man by the use of means so far as he is concerned to know them and the mind of God in them And herein also Protestants stand as firmly as the fundamentals of Christianity will bear them 4. Protestants believe that it is the Duty of all men who desire to know the will of God and to worship him according unto his mind to use diligence in the improvement of the means appointed for that end to come unto a right and full understanding of all things in the Scripture wherein their faith and obedience are concerned This necessarily follows from the Principles before laid down Nor is it possible it should be otherwise It is doubtless incumbent on every man to study and know his Duty that cannot be a mans Duty which he is not bound to know especially not such a Duty as whereon his eternall welfare should depend And I suppose a man can take no better Course to come to the knowledge of his Duty than that which God hath appointed for that purpose The Commands and Exhortations which we have given us in the Scripture for our Diligence in this matter with the Explications and improvements of them in the Writings of the Fathers are so obvious trite and known that it were meer loss of time to insist on the Repetition of them I suppose I should speak within compass if I should say that one Chrysostome doth in a hundred places exhort Christians of all sorts to the diligent study and search of the Scriptures and especially of the Epistles of Paul not the most plain and easie part of them I know the practise of your Church lyes to the contrary and what you plead in the justification of that practise but I am sorry both for Her and you both for the contrivers of and consenters unto this abomination and I fear what your accounâ— will be as to this matter at the last day God having granted the inestimable benefit of his Word unto mankind revealing therein unto them the only way by which they may attain unto a blessed eternity Is it not the greatest ingratitude that any man can possibly contract the guilt of to neglect the use of it What then is your Condition who upon sleight and triviall pretences set up your own Wisdome and Authority against the Wisdome and Authority of God advising and commanding men upon the pain of your displeasure in this world not to attend unto that which God commands them to attend unto on pain of his displeasure in the world to come So that though I confess that you deny this Principle yet I cannot see but that you do so not only upon the hazard of your own souls and the souls of them that attend unto you seeing that if the blind lead the blind both must fall into the ditch but also that you do it to the great prejudice of Christian Religion in the very foundations of it For what can a man rationally conclude that shall see you driving all Persons and that on no small penalties excepting your selves who are concerned in the conspiracy and some few others whom you suppose sufficiently initiated in your Mysteries from the reading and study of those Books wherein the world knows and your selves confess that the Arcana of Christian Religion are contained but that there are some things in them like the hidden Sacra of the old Pagan Hierophants which may not be disclosed because however countenanced by a remote veneration yet are indeed turpia or ridicula things to be ashamed of or scorned And the Truth is some of your Doctors have spoken very suspiciously this way whilest they justifie your practise in driving the people from the study of the Scripture by intimations of things and expressions not so pure and chast as to be fit for the knowledge of the promiscuous multitude when in the mean time Themselves or their Associates do publish unto all the world in their rules and directions for Confession such abominable filth and ribaldry as I think was never by any other means vented amongst mankind 5. Protestants say that the Lord Christ hath instituted his Church and therein appointed a Ministry to preside over the rest of his Disciples in his Name and to unfold un to them his mind and will as recorded in his Word for which end he hath promised his presence with them by his Spirit unto the end of the World to enable them in an humble dependance on his assistance to find out and declare his Commands and Appointments unto their brethren This Position I suppose you will not contend with us about although I know that you put another sense upon most of the terms of it than the Scripture will allow or wee can admit of These are the Principles of Protestants this is the Progress of their Faith in coming unto settlement and assurance These are their Foundations which are as unquestionable as any thing in Christianity the most of them your selves being judges And from them one of these two things will necessarily follow Either that all men unto whom the Word of God doth come will come to an agreement in the Truth or the Unity of Faith or Secondly That it is their own fault if they do not so do For what upon these Principles should hinder them from so doing All saving Truth is revealed by God in the Scripture unto the end that men may come to the knowledge of it It is so revealed by Him that it is possible and with his assistance easie formen to know aright his Mind and Will about the things so revealed and be hath appointed regular wayes and means for men to wait upon him in and by for the obtaining of his assistance Now pray revive your Question that gave occasion unto this discourse however men may differ in Religion why is not the Scripture sufficient to bring them unto an agreement and settlement Take heed that in your Answer you deny not some Principle that will
his Apostleship If you will then have any to succeed him in the enjoyment of any or of all these Privileges you must bespeak him to succeed him in his Apostleship and not in his Bishoprick Besides as I said before this imaginary Episcopacy which limits and confines him unto a particular Church as it doth if it be an Episcopacy properly so called is destructive of his Apostolical Office and of his Duty in answering the Commission given him of preaching the Gospel to every Creature following the Guidance of Gods Providence and conduct of the Holy Ghost in his way Many of the Ancients I confess affirm that Peter sate Bishop of the Church of Rome but they all evidently use the word in a large sense to imply that during his abode there for that there he was they did suppose be took upon him the especial Care of that Church For the same Persons constantly affirm that Paul also was Bishop of the same Church at the same time which cannot be otherwise understood than in the large sense mentioned And Ruffinus Prafat Recog Clement ad Gâ—udent unriddles the mystery Linus saith he Clâ—tus fuerunt ante Clementem Episcopi in â—rbe Roma sed superstite Petro videlicet at illi Episcopatûs Curam gererent iste verò Apostolatûs simpleret officium Linus and Cletus were Bishops in the City of Rome before Clemens but whilest Peter was yet alive they performing the Duty of Bishops Peter attending unto his office Apostolical And hereby doth he utterly discard the present new plea of the foundation of your faith For though he assert that Peter the Apostle was at Rome yet he denies that he ever sate Bishop there but names two others that ruled that Church at Rome joyntly during his time either in one Assembly or in two the one of the Circumcision the other of the Gentile-Converts And if Peter were thus Bishop of Rome and entred as you say upon his Episcopacy at his first coming thither whence is it that you are forced to confess that he was so long absent from his charge Five years saith Bellarmine but that will by no means salve the Difficulty Seven saith Onuphrius at once and abiding at one place the most part of his time besides being spent in other places and yet allowing him no time at all for those places where he certainly was Eighteen saith Cortefius strange that he should be so long absent from his especiall Cure and never write one word to them for their instruction or consolation whereas in the mean time he wrote two Epistles unto them who it seems did not in any speciall manner belong unto his Charge I wish we could once find our way out of this maze of uncertainties This is but a sad disquisition after Principles of faith to settle men in Religion by them And yet if we should suppose this also wee are farre enough from our journeys end The present Bishop of Rome is as yet behind the curtain neither can he appear upon the stage untill hâ— be ushered in by one pretence more of the same nature with them that went before And this is V. That some one must needs succeed Peter in his Episcopacy But why so why was it not needfull that one should succeed him in his Apostleship Why was it not needfull that Paul should have a successor as well as Peter and John as well as either of them Because you say that was necessary for the Church not so these But who told you so where is the proof of what you averre who made you judges of what is necessary and what is not necessary for the Church of Christ when himself is silent And why is not the succession of an Apostle necessary as well as of such a Bishop as you fancie had it not been better to have had one still residing in the Church of whose Infallibility there could have been no doubt or question One that had the power of working Miracles that should have no need to scare the people by shaking fire out of his slieve as your Pope Gregory the 7 th was wont to do if Cardinall Benno may be believed But you have now carried us quite off from the Scripture and Story and probable conjectures to attend unto you whilest you give the Lord Jesus prudentiall advice about what is necessary for his Church It must needs be so it is meet it should be so is the best of your proof in this matter Only your fratres Walenburgici adde that never any man ordained the Government of a Community more weakly than Christ must be supposed to have done the Government of his Church if he have not appointed such a Successour to Peter as you imagin But it is easie for you to assert what you please of this nature and as easie for any one to reject what you so assert if he please These things are without the verge of Christian Religion 〈◊〉 Towers and Palaces in the ayr But what must S t Peter be succeeded in his Episcopacy and what therewithall his Authority Power and Jurisdiction over all Churches in the world with an unerring judgement in matters of faith But all these belonged unto Peter as far as ever they belonged unto him as he was an Apostle long before you fancie him to have been a Bishop As then his Episcopacy came without these things so for ought you know it might goe without it This is a matter of huge importance in that Systeme of Principles which you tender unto us to bring us unto settlement in Religion and the Unity of Faith would you would consider a little how you may give some tolerable appearance of proof unto that which the Scripture is so utterly silent in yea which lyes against the whole Oeconomy of the Lord Jesus Christ in his ordering of his Church as delivered unto us therein dic aliquem dic Quintiliane colorem But we come now to the Pope whom here we first find latentem post Priâ—cipia and coming forth 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 with his Claim For you say VI. That the Bishop of Rome is the man that thus suecceds Peter in his Episcopacy which though it were settled at Rome was over the whoee Catholick Church So you say and so you profess your selves to believe And we desire that you would not take it amiss if we desire to know upon what grounds you do so being unwilling to cast away all Consideration that we may embrace a fanatical Credo in this unlikely business We desire therefore to know who appointed that there should be any such succession who that the Bishop of Rome should be this Successor Did Jesus Christ do it we may justly expect you should say He did but if you do we desire to know when where how seeing the Scripture is utterly silent of say such thing Did S t Peter himself do it Pray manifest unto us that by the appointment of Jesus Christ he had power so to do and that
Church yield any obedience or perform any acceptable worship unto God but what was founded on and regulated by his Word given unto them antecedently unto their obedience and worship to be the sole foundation and Rule of it That you have no concernment in what is or may be truly spoken of the Church we shall afterwards shew but it is not for the interest of Truth that wee should suffer you without controul to impose such absurd notions on the minds of men especially when you pretend to direct them unto a Settlement in Religion Alike true is it that the Church gives Authority unto the Scripture Every true Church indeed gives witness or Testimony unto it and it is its Duty so to do it holds it forth declares and manifests it so that it may be considered and taken notice of by all which is one main End of the Institution of the Church in this world But the Church no more gives Authority to the Scripture than it gives Authority to God himself He requires of men the discharge of that Duty which he hath assigned unto them but stands not in need of their suffrage to confirm his Authority It was not so indeed with the Idols of old of whom Tertullian said rightly Si Deus homini non placuerit Deus non erit The reputation of their Deity depended on the Testimony of men as you say that of Christ's doth on the Authority of the Pope But I shall not farther insist upon the disprovement of this vanity having shewed already that the Scripture hath all its Authority both in its self and in reference unto us from Him whose Word it is and wee have also made is appear that your Assertions to the contrary are meet for nothing but to open a door unto all Irreligiousness Prophaneness and Atheism so that there is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 nothing sound or savoury nothing which an heart carefull to preserve its Loyalty unto God will not nauseate at nothing not suited to oppugn the fundamentals of Christian Religion in this your Position This ground well fixed you tell us 11. That the Church is infallible or cannot erre in what she teacheth to be believed And we ask you what Church you mean and how far you intend that it is infallible The only known Church which was then in the world was in the Wilderness when Moses was in the mount Was it infallible when it made the golden Calf and danced about it proclaiming a feast unto Jebovah before the Calf was the same Church afterward Infallible in the dayes of the Judges when it worshipped Baalim and Aftaroth or in the dayes of Jeroboam when it sacrificed before the Calves at Dan and Bethel or in the other branch of it in the dayes of Ahaz when the High-Priest set up an Altar in the Temple for the King to offer Sacrifice unto the gods of Damascus or in the dayes of Jehoiakiâ— and Zedekiah when the High-Priest with the rest of the Priests imprisoned and would have slain Jeremiah for preaching the word of God or when they preferred the worship of the Queen of Heaven before that of the God of Abraham Or was it infallible when the High-Priest with the whole Councel or Saâ—edrim of the Church judicially condemned as far as in them lay their own Messias and rejected the Gospel that was preached unto them You must inform us what other Church was them in the world or you will quickly perceive how ungrounded your generall Maxim is of the Churches absolute infallibility As farre indeed as it attends unto the Infallible Rule given unto it it is so but not one jot farther Moreover we desire to know What Church you mean in your Assertion or rather what is it that you mean by the Church Do you intend the Mystical Church or the whole number of Gods Elect in all Ages or in any Age militant on the Earth which principally is the Church of God Ephes. 5. 26 Or do you intend the whole diffused body of the Disciples of Christ in the world separated to God by Baptism and the Profession of saving truth which is the Church Catholick visible Or do you mean any particular Church as the Roman or constantinopolitan the French Dutch or English Church If you intend the first of These or the Church in the first sense we acknowledge that it is thus far infallible that no true member of it shall ever totally and finally renounce lose or forsake that faith without which they cannot please God and be saved This the Scripture teacheth this Austin confirmeth in an bundred places If you intend the Church in the second sense we grant that also so far unerring and infallible as that there ever was and ever shall be in the world a number of men making Profession of the saving Truth of the Gospel and yielding professed subjection unto our Lord Jesus Christ according unto it wherein consists his visible Kingdome in this world that never was that never can be utterly overthrown If you speak of a Church in the last sense then we tell you That no such Church is by virtue of any Promise of our Lord Jesus Christ freed from erring yea so farre as to deny the fundamentals of Christianity and thereby to lose the very being of a Church Whilst it continues a Church it cannot erre fundamentally because such Errours destroy the very being of a Church but those who were once a Church by their failing in the Truth may cease to be so any longer And a Church as such may so fail though every Person in it do not so for the individual members of it that are so also of the Mysticall Church shall be preserved in its Apostasie And so the Mysticall Church and the Catholick Church of Professors may be continued though all particular Churches should fail So that no Person the Church in no sense is absolutely freed in this world from the danger of all errours that is the condition wee shall attain in Heaven here where we know butin part wee are incapable of it The Church of the Elect and every member of it shall eventually be preserved by the power of the Holy Ghost from any such errour as would utterly destroy their Communion with Christ in Grace here or prâ—vent their fruition of him in Glory hereafter or as the Apostle speaks they shall assuredly be kept by the Power of God through faith unto salvation The Generall Church of Visible Professors shall be alwayes so farre preserved in the world as that there shall never want some in some place or other of it that shall profess all needfull saving Truths of the Gospel in the belief whereof and obedience whereunto a man may be saved But for Particular Churches as such they have no security but what lyes in their diligent attendance unto that Infallible Rule which will preserve them from all hutfull Errours if through their own default they neglect not to keep close unto it And your
satisfaction the things which they do believe and let men be esteemed to beleive and to have attained degrees in the faith according as they are taught of God with an allowance for every ones measure of means light grace gifts which are not things in our own Power and we shall be nearer unto quietness than most men imagine When Christians had any unity is the world the Bible alone was thought to contain their Religion and every one endeavoured to learn the mind of God out of it both by their own endeavours and as they were instructed therein by their guides neither did they pursue this work with any other end but only that they might be strengthened in their faith and hope and learn to serve God and obey him that so they might come to the blessed enjoyment of him Nor will there ever I fear be again any Unity among them untill things are reduced to the same state and condition But among all the vanities that the minds of men are exercised with in this world there is none to be compared unto that of their hoping and endeavouring to bring all Persons that profess the Religion of Jesus Christ to acquiesce in the same opinions about all particulars which are any way determined to belong thereunto especially considering how endlesly they are multiplied and branched into instances such for ought appears the first Churches took little or no notice of nay neither knew nor understood any thing of them in the sense and termes wherin they are now proposed as a tessera of Communion among Christians In a word leave Christian Religion unto its primitive Liberty wherein it was beleived to be revealed of God and that Revelation of it to be contained in the Scripture which men searched and studied to become themselves and to teach others to be wise in the knowledg of God and living unto him and the most of the Contests that are in the world will quickly vanish and disappear But whilest every one hath a Confession a Way a Church and its Authority which must be imposed on all others or else he cryes to his nearest relations Lupis agnis quanta sortito obtigit Tecum mihi discordia est We may look for peace Moderation and Vnity when we are here no more and not sooner So that III. If those Theologicall Determinations that make up at this day amongst some men the greatest part of those Assertions Positions or Propositions which are called Articles of Faith or Truth which are not delivered in the words that the Spirit of God teacheth but in termes of Art and in Answer unto Rules and Notions which the world might happily without any great disadvantage been unacquainted withall unto this day had not Aristotle found them out or stumbled on them might be eliminated from the City of God and Communion of Christians and left for men to exercise their wits about who have nothing else to do and the Doctrine of Truth which is according unto Godliness left unto that Noble Heavenly Spirituall generous amplitude wherein it was delivered in the Scripture and beleived in the first Churches innumerable Causes of strife and Contentions would be taken away but ferri video meà gaudia ventis small hopes have I to see any such impression and consent to besall the minds of concerned men and yet I must confess I have not one jot more of the reuniting the Disciples of Christ in love and concord But most men that profess any thing of Divinity have learned it as an Art or humane Science out of the road compass and track where of they know nothing of the mind of God nay many scarce know the things in themselves and as they are to be believed which they are passing skilfull in as they are expressed in their arbitrary termes of Art which none almost understand but themselves And is it likely that such men who are not a few in the world will let go their skill and knowledge and with them their repntation and advantage and to sacrifice them all to the peace and agreement that we are seeking after Some learn their Divinity out of the late and Modern Schools both in the Reformed and Papall Church in both which a Science is proposed under that name consisting in a farrago of Credible Propositions asserted in termes suited unto that Philosophy that is variously predominant in them What a kind of Theology this hath praduced in the Papacy Agricola Erasmus Vives Jansenius with innumerable other Learned men of your own have sufficiently declared And that it hath any better success in the Reformed Churches many things which I shall not now instance in give me cause to doubt Some boast themselves to learn their Divinity from the Fathers and say they depart not from their sense and idiome of expression in what they beleive and profess But we find by experience that what for want of wisedom and judgement in themselves what for such reasons taken from the writings which they make their Oracles which I shall not insist upon much of the Divinity of some of these men consists in that which to avoid provocation I shall not express Whilest men are thus preing aged it will be very hard to prevail with them to think that the greatest part of their Divinity is such that Christian Religion either as to the matter or at least as to that mode wherein alone they have imbibed it is little or not at all concerned in nor will it be easie to perswade them that it is a Mystery layed up in the Scripture and all true Divinity a Wisedom in the Knowledg of that Mystery and skill to live unto God accordingly without which as I said before we shall have no Peace or agreement in this world Nobis curiositate opus non est post Jesum Christum nec inquisitione post Evangelium sayes Tertullian Curiosity after the Doctrine of Christ and Philosophicall inquisitions in Religion after the Gospel belongs not unto us As we are IV. It were well if Christians would but seriously consider what and how many things they are wherein their present Apprehensions of the mind and will of God do center and agree I mean as to the substance of them their nature and importance and how far they will lead men in the wayes of pleasing God and coming to the enjoyment of him Were not an endeavour to this purpose impeded by many mens importunate cryes of all or none as good nothing at all as not every thing and that in this or that way mode or fashion it might not a litlle conduce to the Peaâ—e of Christendom And I must acknowledg unto you that I think it is prejudice Carnall interest love of Power and present enjoyments with other Secular Advantages joyned with Pride Self-will and contempt of others that keep the professours of Christianity from conspiring to improve this Consideration But God help us we are all for Partyes and our own exact being in the right and therein
the last part and express no more but the Pope is a good man and seeks nothing but our good and therein aim at a double advantage unto your self First That you may with some colour of Truth though really without it deny the Assertion to be yours when as the latter part of it which upon the matter is that which gives the sence and determines the meaning of the whole is expresly contended for by you and that frequently and at large Secondly That you may vent an empty Cavill against that expression seeks nothing but our good whereas had you added the next words and never did us harm every one would have perceived in what sense the former were spoken and so have prevented the frivolous exception Your words are This also I nowhere aver for I never saw him nor have any such acquaintance with him as to know whither he be a good man or no though in charity I do not use to judge hardly of any body much less could say that he whom I know to have a general sollicitude for all Churches seeks nothing but our good Sir if I had pondered my words in Fiat Lux no better then you heed yours in your Animadversions upon it they might even go together both of them to lay up Pepper and Spices or some yet more vile employment For what you have said of the Pope I desire the Reader to consult your Paragraph so entitled and if he find not that you have said ten times more in the commendation of him then I intimated in the words layed down for your Principle I am content to be esteemed to have done you wrong You have indeed not only set him out as a good man but have made him much more then a man and have ascribed that unto him which is not lawful to be ascribed unto any man whatever Some of your Expressions I have again reminded you of and many others of the same nature might be instanced in and what you can say more of him then you have done unless you would exalt him above all that is called God and worshipped unless you should set him in the Temple of God and shew him that he is God I know not Let the Reader if he please consult your expressions where you have placed them I shall stain Paper with them no more And you do but trifle with us when you tell us that you know not the Pope nor have any such acquaintance with him as to know whether he be a good men or no As though your personal acquaintance with this or that Pope belonged at all to our question Although I must needs say that it seems very strange unto me that you should hang the weight of Religion and the salvation of your own soul upon one of whom you know not so much as whither he be a good man or no. For my part I am perswaded there is no such hardship in Christian Religion as that we should be bound to believe that all the safety of our Faith and Salvation depends on a man and he such an one as concerning whâ—m we know not whither he be a good man or no. The Apostle layes the foundation of our hope in better ground Heb. 1. 1 2 3. And yet what ever opinion you may have of your present Pope you are forced to be at this indifferency about his honesty because you are not able to deny but that very many of his Predecessors on whose shoulders the weight of all your Religion lay no less then you suppose it doth on his who now swayes the Papal Scepter were very brutes so far from being good men as that they may be reckoned amongst the worst in the world Protestants as I said are perswaded that their faith is laid up in better hands With the latter part of my words as by you set down you play sophistically that you might say something to them as to my knowledge I never observed any man so hard put to it to say somewhat were it right or wrong which seems to be the utmost of your design You feign the sense of my words to be that the Pope doth no other thing in the world but seek our good and confute me by saying that he hath a general sollicitude for all Churches But Sir I said nor be doth nothing but seek our good but only he seâ—ks nothing but our good and never did us harm And you may quickly see how causelesly you tall into a contemplation of your accuracy in your Fiâ—t and 〈…〉 loosness of my expressions in the 〈…〉 For although I acknowledge that 〈…〉 heen written in greater haste then 〈◊〉 judgements of learned men might well 〈◊〉 as is also this return unto your Epistle 〈…〉 of them proportioned rather unto the merit of your Discourse then that of the Cause in agitation between us yet I cannot see that you or any 〈◊〉 else hath any just cause to except against this expression of my intention which yet is the only one that in that kind falls under your censure For whereas I say that the Pope seeks nothing but our good and that he never did us harm would any man living but your self understand these words any otherwise but with reference unto them of whom I spake that is as to us he seeks nothing but our good whatever he doth in the world besides And is it not a wild interpretation that you make of my words whilest you suppose me to intimate that absolutely the Pope doth nothing in the world or hath no other business at all that he concerns himself in but only the seeking of our good in particular If you cannot allow the books that you read the common Civility of interpreting things indefinitely expressed in them with the limitations that the subject matter whereof they treat requires you had better employ your time in any thing then study as being not able to understand many lines in any Author you shall read Nor are such expressions to be avoided in our common discourse If a man talking of your Fiat should say that you do nothing but seek the good of your Countreymen would you interpret his words as though he denyed that you say Mass and hear Confessions or to intimate that you do nothing but write Fiats and you know with whom lies both jus norma loquendi The tenth and last Principle is That the Devotion of Catholicks far transcends that of Protestants so you now express it what you mention being but one part of three that the Animadversions speak unto Hereunto you reply But Sir I never made in Fiat Lux any Comparisons between your Devotions nor can I say how much the one is or how little the other but you are the maddest Commentator that I have ever seen you first make the Text and then Animadversions upon it Pray Sir have a little patience and learn from this instance not to be too confident upon your memory for the future I shall
of Episcopacy under a pretence of establishing it and which insteed of asserting them to be Bishops in the Church would have rendred them all Curates to the Pope You would have us believe that Christ hath appointed one Episcopal Monarch in his Church with plenitude of power to represent his own Person which is the Pope and from him all other Bishops to derive their power being substituted by him and unto him unto their work And must not this needs be an acceptable defensative or Plea unto Prelate Protestants which if it be admitted they can be no longer supposed to be made Overseers of their flocks by the Holy Ghost but by the Pope which forfeits their Prelacy and besides asserts his Supremacy which destroyes their Protestancy Upon this occasion you proceed to touch upon somewhat of great importance concerning the Head of the Church wherein you know a great part of the difference between your self and those whom you oppose to consist In your passage you mention the use of true Logick but I fear we shall find that in your Discourse laudatur alget I should have been glad to have found you making what use you were able of that which you commend It would I suppose have directed you to have stated plainly and clearly what is it that you assert and what it is that you oppose and to have given your Arguments Catasceuastical of the one and Anasceuastical of the other but either you know not that way of proceedure or you considered how little advantage unto your end you were like to obtain thereby And therefore you make use only of that part of Logick which teacheth the nature and kinds of Sophisms in particular that of confounding things which ought to be distinguished However your Discourse such as it is shall be examined and that by the rules of that Logick which your self commend You say pag. 51. The Church says I must have a Bishop or otherwise she will not have such a visible Head as she had at first This that you may enervate you tell me that the Church hath still the same Head she had which is Christ who is present with his Church by his Spirit and his Laws and is man God still as much as ever he was and ever the same will be and if I would have any other visible Bishop to be head then it seems I would not have the same head and so would have the same and not the same This is but one part of my answer and that very lamely and imperfectly reported The Reader if he please may see the whole of it Ch. 10. p. 223 c. and therewithall take a specimen of your ingenuity in this Controversie It were very sufficient to render your following exceptions against it useless unto your purpose meerly to repeat what you seek to oppose but because you shall not have any pretence that any thing you have sayd is passed over undiscussed I shall consider what you offer in way of exception to so much of my answer as you are pleased your self to express and as may be supposed thought your self qualified to deal withal Thus then you proceed I cannot in Reason be thought to speak otherwise if we would use true Logick of the Identity of the head then I do of the Identity of the body of the Church This body is not numerically the same for the men of the first age are long ago gone out of the world and another generation come who yet are a body of Christians of the same kind though not numerically the same So do I require that since Jesus Christ as man the head immediate of other believing men is departed hence to the glory of his father that the Church should still have an Head of the same kind as visibly now present as she had in the beginning or else say I she cannot be compleatly the same body or a body of the same kind visible as she was But this she hath not this she is not except she have a visible Bishop as she had in the beginning present with her guiding and ruling under God Christ our Lord is indeed still Man God but his manhood is now separate nor is he visibly present as man which immediately headed his believers under God on whose influence their nature depended His Godhead is still the same in all things not only in its self but in order to his Church also as it was before equally invisible and in the like manner believed but the nature delegate under God and once ruling visibly amongst us by words nnd examples is now utterly withdrawn And if a nature of the same kind be not now delegate with a power of exterior Government as at the first then was then hath not the Church the same head now which she had then qui habet aures andiendi audiat How you have secured your Logick in this Dicourse shall afterwards be considered your Divinity seems at the first view lyable unto just exceptâ—ons For 1. You suppose Christ in his humane nature only to have been the Head of his Church and therefore the absence of that to necessitate the constitution of another Now this supposition is openly false and dangerous to the whole being of Christianity It is the Son of God who is the Head of the Church who as he is man so also is he over all God blessed for ever And as God and man in one person is that Head and ever was since his incarnation and ever will be to the end of the world To deny this is to overthrow the foundation of the Churches faith preservation and consolation it being founded and built on this that he was the Son of the living God Matth. 16. and yet into this supposition alone is your imaginary necessity of the Substitution of another Head in his room resolved 2. You plainly confess that the present Church hath not the same head that the Church had when our Lord Christ conversed with them in the dayes of his flesh That you say was his humane nature delegate under God which being now removed and separate another Person so delegate under God is substituted in his place Which not only deprives the Church of its first Head but also deposeth the humane nature of Christ from that office of headship to his Church which you confess that for a while it enjoyed leaving him nothing but what belongs unto him as God wherein alone you will allow him to be that unto his Church which formerly he was Confessing I say the humane nature of Christ to have been the head of the Church and now denying it so to be you do what lyes in you to depose him from his Office and Throne allowing his humane nature as far as I can perceieve to be of little other use then to be eaten by you in the Mass. 3. You make your intention yet more evident by intimating that the Humane Nature of Christ is now no more Head of
the Church then the present Church is made up of the same numerical members that it was constituted of in the days of his flesh What change you suppose in the Church the body the same you suppose and assert in the head thereof And as that change excludes those former members from being present members so this excludes the former Head from being the present Head Of old the Head of the Church was the humane nature of Christ delegate under God now that is removed and another person in the same nature is so delegated unto the same office Now this is not an Head under Christ but in distinction from him in the same place wherein he was and so exclusive of him which must needs be Antichrist one pretending to be in his room and place to his exclusion that is one set up against him And thus also what you seek to avoid doth inevitably follow upon your discourse namely that you would have the Church for the preservation of its oneness and sameness to have the same head she had which is not the same unless you will say that the Pope is Christ these are the Principles that you proceed upon First you tell us that the humane nature of Christ delegate under God was the visible Head of the Church Secondly That this nature is now removed from us and ceaseth so to be that is not only to be visible but the visible Head of the Church and is no more so then the present Church is made up of the same individual members as it was in the dayes of his flesh which as you well observe it is not Thirdly That a nature of the same kind in another Person is now delegate under God to the same office of a Visible Head with that power of external Government which Christ had whilest he was that head And is it not plain from hence that you exclude the Lord Christ from being that head of his Church which he was in former dayes and substituting another in his room and place you at once depose him and assign another head unto the Church and that in your attempt to prove that her head must still be the same or she cannot be so Farther the humane nature of Christ was personally united unto the Son of God and if that Head which you now fancy the Church to have be not so united it is not the same Head that that was and so whilest you seek to establish not indeed a sameness in the Head of the Church but a likeness in several Heads of it as to visibility you evidently assert a change in the nature of that Head of the Church which we enquire after In a word Christ and the Pope are not the same and therefore if it be necessary to maintain that the Church hath the same Head that she had to assert that in the room of Christ she hath the Pope you prove that she hath the same head that she had because she hath one that is not the same she had and so qui habet aures audiat 4. You vainly imagine the whole Catholick Church any otherwise visible then with the eyes of faith and understanding It was never so no not when Christ conversed with it in the earth no not if you should suppose only his blessed Mother his twelve Apostles and some few more only to belong unto it For though all the members of it might be seen and that at once by the bodily eyes of men as might also the humane nature of him who was the head of it yet as he was Head of the Church and in that his whole Person wherein he was so and is so he was never visible unto any for no man hath seen God at any time And therefore you substituting an Head in his room who in his whole person is visible seeing he was not so do change the Head of the Church as to its visibility also for one that is in his whole person visible and another that is not so are not alike visible wherein you would principally place the identity of the Church 5. Let us see whether your Logick be any better then your Divinity The best Argument that can be formed out of your discourse is this If the Church hath not an head visibly present with her as she had when Christ in his humane nature was on the earth she is not the same that she was but according to their Principles she hath not an head now so visibly present with her therefore she is not the same according unto them I desire to know how you prove your inference It is built on this supposition that the sameness of the Church depends upon the visibility of its Head and not on the sameness of the Head its self which is a fond conceit and contrary to express Scripture Ephes. 4. 3 4 5 6 7. and not capable of the least countenance from Reason It may be you will say that though your Argument do not conclude that on our supposition the Church is not the same absolutely as it was yet it doth that it is not the same as to visibility Whereunto I answer 1. That there is no necessity that the Church should be alwayes the same as to visibility or alwayes visible in the same manner or alwayes equally visible as to all concernments of it 2. You mistake the whole nature of the visibility of the Church supposing it to consist in its being seen with the bodily eyes of men whereas it is only an affection of its publick profession of the Truth whereunto it s being seen in part or in whole by the eyes of any or all men doth no way belong 3. That the Church as I said before was indeed never absolutely visible in its Head and members He who was the Head of it being never in his whole person visible unto the the eyes of men and he is yet as he was of old visible to the eyes of faith whereby we see him that is invisible So that to be visible to the bodily eyes of men in its head and members was never a property of the Church much less such an one as that thereon its sameness in all Ages should depend 6. You fail also in supposing that the numerical sameness of the Church as a body depends absolutely on the sameness of its members For whilest in succession it hath all things the same that concur unto its Constitution order and existence it may be still the same body corporate though it consist not of the same individual persons or bodies natural As the Kingdom of England is the same Kingdom that it was two hundred years ago though there be not now one person living that then it was made up of For though the matter be the same only specifically yet the form being the same numerically that denominates the body to be so But that I may the better represent unto you the proper genius and design of your Discourse I shall
Principles whereby you attempt the confirmation of that absurd position are of that nature that they exclude the Headship of Christ and inâ—er no less change or alteration in the Church then that which must needs ensue thereon and the substitution of another in his room which destroyes the very essence and being of it Let us now consider what you further reply unto that which was offered in the Animadversions unto the purpose now discoursed of Your ensuing words are And here by the way we may take notice what a fierce English Protestant you are who labour so stoutly to evacuate my argument for Episcopacy and leave none of your own behind you nor acquaint the world with any though you know far better but would make us believe notwith tanding those far better reasons for Prelacy that Christ himself as he is the immediate Head of invisible influence so is he likewise the only and immediate Head of visible direction and government amongst us without the interposition of any Person delegate in his stead to oversee and rule under him in his Church on earth which is against the tenor both of sacred Gospel and St. Pauls Epistles and all Antiquity and the present Ecclesiastical Polity of England and is the Doctrine not of any English Protestant but of the Presbyterian Independent and Quaker How little cause you have to attempt an impeachment of my Protestancy I hope I have in some measure evidenced unto you and shall yet farther make it manifest as you give me occasion so to do In the mean time as I told you before that I would not plead the particular concernment of any party amongst Protestants no more then you do that of any party among your selves so I am sure enough that I have delivered nothing prejudicial unto any of them because I have kept my self unto the defence of their Protestancy wherein they all agree Nor have I given you an answer unto any Argument that tends in the least to the confirmation of such a Prelacy as by any sort of Protestants is admitted but only shewed the emptiness and pernicious Consequences of your Sophism wherewith you plead in pretence for Prelacy indeed for a Papal Supremacy and that on such Principles as are absolutely destructive of that Protestant Prelacy which you would be thought to give countenance unto And your ensuing Discourse wherein you labour to justifie your reflection on me is a pittiful piece of falsehood and Sophistry For first this double Head of the Catholick Church one of influence the other of direction and government which you fancy some Protestants to admit of is a thing that they declare against as injurious to the Lord Christ and that which would render the Church biceps monstrum horrid and deformed It is Christ himself who as by his Spirit he exercises the office of an head by invisible influence so by his Word that of visible direction and rule He is I say the only Head of visible direction to his Church though he be not a visible Head to that purpose which that he should be is to no purpose at all 2. If by the interposition of any person under Christ delegate in his stead you understand any one single Person delegated in his stead to oversee and rule the whole Catholick Church such an one as you now plead for in your Epistle it is intolerable arrogancy to intimate that he is designed either in the Gospel or St. Pauls Epistles or Antiquity whereas you are not able to assign any place or text or word in them directly or by fair Consequence to justifie what you assert And for the present Ecclesiastical policy of the Church of England if you yet know it not let me inform you that the very foundations of it are laid in a direct contrary supposition namely that there is no such single Person delegated under Christ for the Rule of the whole Catholick Church which gives us a new evidence of your Conscientious â—are in what you say and write 3. If you intend that which is not at all to your purpose Persons to rule under Christ in the Church presiding according to his direction and institution in and over the Particular Churches whereunto they do relate governing them in his name by his Authority and according to his Word I desire you to inform me wherein I have said or written or intimated any thing that may give you the least countenance in your affirming that by me it is denied or where it was ever denied by any Protestant whatever Prelatical Presbyterian or Independent neither doth this concession of theirs in the least impeach the sole Soveraign Monarchy of Christ and single Headship over his Church to all ends and purposes A Monarch may be and is the sole supream Governour and Political Head of his Kingdom though he appoint others to execute his Laws by virtue of Authority derived from him in the several Provinces Shires and Parishes of it And Christ is the only head of his Church though he have appointed others to preside and rule in his name in those distributions of his Disciples whereinto they are cast by his appoinment But you proceed Christ in their way is immediatâ— head not only of subministration and influence but of exterior derivation also and government to his Church Ans. He is so the supream and only Head of the Church Catholick in the one way and other though the means of conveying influences of Grace and of exterior Rule be various Then say you is he such an Head to all Belivers or no to all the whole body in general and every individual member thereof in particular if he be so to all you say then no man is to be governed in Affairs of Religion by any other man But why so I pray can no man govern in any sense or place but he must be a supream Head The King is immediate Head unto all his subjects he is King not only to the whole Kingdom but to every individual person in his Kingdom doth it thence follow that they may not be governed by officers subordinate delegated under him to rule them by his Authority according to his Laws or that if they may be so that he is not the only immediate King and supream Head unto them all The Apostle tells us expresly that the Head of every man is Christ 1 Cor. 11. 3. And that an head of Rule as the husband is the head of the wife Ephes. 5. 23. as well as he is an head of influence unto the whole body and every member of it in particular 1 Cor. 12. 12. Col. 2. 19. And it is a senseless thing to imagine that this should in the least impeach his appointment of men to rule under him in his Church according to his Law who are thereupon not heads but in respect of him servants and in respect to the particular Churches wherein they serve him Rulers or guides yea their servants for his sake not Lords
greatly desire to give some countenance unto that is an universal visible Pastor over the whole Catholick Church in the place and room of Christ himself First You tell us that the Apostles expected one to be chosen to succeed Christ in his care But to have one succeed another in his care infers that that other â—â—â—sâ—â— o take and exercise the Care which formerly he haâ— and exercised which in this case is highly blasphemous once to imagine I wish you would â—ake more Care of what you say in things of this nature aâ—d not suffer the impetuous 〈…〉 your interest to cast you upon expressions so 〈◊〉 to thâ— honour oâ— Christ and safety of his Churâ—â— And how do you prove that the Apostles had any such expectations as that which you mention Our Saviour gave them equal commission to teach all Nations told them that as his father had sent him so he sent them that he had chosen them twelve but that one of them was a Devil never that one of them should be Pope Their Institution Instruction Priviledges Charge Calling were all equal How then should they come to have this expectation that one of them should be chosen to succeed Christ in his Care when they were all chosen to serve under him in the continuance of his care towards his Church That which you obscurely intimate from whence this expectation of yours might arise is the contest that was amongst them aâ—â—â—t preheminence Luk. 22. 24. There was a strife â—mongst them which of them should be the greatest 〈◊〉 you suppose was upon their perswasion that one should be chosen in particular to succeed the Lord Christ in his Care whereupon they fell into difference about the place But 1. Is it not somewhat strange unto your self how they should contest about a succession unto Christ in his absence who had not once thought that he would ever be absent from them nor could bear the mention of it without great sorrow of heart when afterwards he began to acquaint them with it 2. How should they come in your apprehension to quarrel about that which as you suppose and contend was somewhile before determined For this contest of yours was somewhile after the promise of the Keys to Peter and the saying of Christ that he would build his Church on the Rock Were the Apostles think you as stupid as Protestants that they could not see the Supremacy of Peter in those passages but must yet fall at variance who should be Pope 3. How doth it appear that this strife of theirs who should be greatest did not arise from their apprehension of an earthly Kingdom a hope whereof according to the then current perswasion of the Judaical Church to be erected by their master whom they believed in as the true Messiah they were not delivered from until after his Resurrection when they were filled with the Spirit of the New Testament Act. 1. Certainly from that root sprang the ambitious desire of the Sons of Zebedee after preheminence in his Kingdom and the designing of the rest of them in this place from the manner of its management by strife seems to have had no better a spring 4. The stop put by our Lord Jesus unto the strife that was amongst them makes it manifest that it arose from no such expectation as you imagine or that at least if it did yet your expectation was irregular vain and groundless For 1. He tells them that there should be no such greatness in his Church as that which they contended about being like to the Soveraignty exercised by and in the Nations of the earth from which he that can shew a difference in your Papal Rule erit mihi magnus Apollo 2. He tells them that his Father had equally provided a Kingdom that is heavenly and eternal for all them that believed which was the only greatness that they ought to look or enquire after 3. That as to their Priviledge in his Kingdom it should be equal unto them all for they should all fit on Thrones judging the twelves tribes of Israel so ascribing equal power Authority and dignity unto them all which utterly overthrows the figment of the supremacy of any one of them over the rest Luk. 22. 30. Matth. 19. 28. And 4. Yet further to prevent any such conceit as that which you suppose them to have had concerning the prelation of any one of them he tells them that one was their Master even Christ and that all they were brethren Mat. 23. 8. so giving them to understand that he had designed them to be perfectly every way equal among themselves So ill have you layed the foundation of your Plea as that it guides us to a full determination of the contrary to your pretence and that given by our Saviour himself with many reasons perswading his Disciples of the equity of it and unto an acquiescency in it And what you add that he presently appointed one to the preheminence you imagine is altogether inconsistent with what you would conclude from the striâ—e about it For the appointment you fancy preceded this contention and had it been real and to any such purpose would certainly have prevented it Thus you do neither prove from the Gospel what you pretend unto namely that Bishops are above Ministers so well do you plead your Cause nor what you intend namely that the Pope is appointed over them all Only you wisely add a caution about what a Bishop ought to be and do de jure and what any one of them may â—o or be de facto because it is impossible for any â—an to find the least difference between the domination which our Saviour expresly condemns and that which your Pope doth exercise Although I know not whither you would think meet to have him devested of that Authority on the pretence whereof he so domineers in the world Finding your self destitute of any countenance from the Gospel you proceed to the Laws of the Land To what purpose to prove that Christ appointed one amongst his Apostles to preside with plenitude of Power over all the rest of them and consequently over the whole Catholick Church succeeding him in his care certainly you will find little countenance in our Laws to this purpose But let us hear your own words again As for the Laws of the Land say you it is there most strongly decreed by the consent and Authority of the whole Kingdom not only that Bishops are our Ministers but that the Kings Majesty is head of the Bishops also in the line of Hierarchy from whose hand they receive both their places and jurisdiction This was established not only by one but by several Parliament Acts both in the reign of King Edward and Queen Elizabeth What will hence follow that there is one universal Bishop appointed to succeed Christ in his Care over the Church Catholick the thing you attempted to prove in the words immediately foregoing Do not the same Laws which assert
the order you mention exclude that which you would introduce Or would you prove that Bishops by the Law of this Land have a jurisdiction superior unto Ministers who ever went about to deny it or what will the remembrance of it advance your pretensionâ— And yet neither is this fairly expressed by you For as no Protestants assert the King to be in his power and office interposed between Christ and Bishops or Ministers as to their ministerial office which is purely spiritual so the power of supream Jurisdiction which they ascribe unto him is not as you falsly insinuate granted unto him by the Laws of King Edward and Queen Elizabeth but is an inseparable Priviledge of his imperial Crown exercised by his Royal Predecessours and asserted by them against the inâ—rusions and usurpations of the Pope of Rome only diclared by those and other Laws But I perceive you have another design in hand You are entring upon a discourse wherein you compare your selves not only with Presbyterians and Independents but Prelate Protestants also in what you ascribe unto Kings in Ecclesiastical affairs preferring your selves before and above them all What just cause you have so to do we shall afterwards consider Your Confidence in it at first view presents its selâ— unto us â— on whereas there was not in the Animadversions any occasion of it administred unto you and your self confess that your whole discourse about it is besides your purpose pag. 66. yet waving almost every thing that was incumbent upon you to have insisted on if you would not plainly have appeared vadimonium deseruisse and to have given up your Fiat as indefensible you divert into a long harangue about it The Thesis you would by various florishes give countenance unto is this That Papists in their deference unto Kings even in Ecclesiastical matters and in their principles of their obedience unto them 〈◊〉 Protestants of all sorts That this is not to ouâ— present purpose your self cannot but see and acknowledge Hower your Discourse such as it is relating to one special head of Difference between us shall be a part considered by its self in our next Chapter CHAP. 16. The Power assigned by Papists and Protestants unto Kings in matters Ecclesiastical Their several Principles discussed and compared YOur Discourse on this head is not reducible by Logick its self unto any method or rules of Argument For it is in general 1. So loose Ambigucus and Metaphorically expressed 2. So Sophistical and inclusive 3. So inconsistent in sundry instances with the Principles and practices of your Church if you speak intelligibly 4. So false and untrue in many particulars that it is scarcely for these excellent qualifications to be paralleld with any thing either in your Fiat or your Epistola First It is loose and ambiguous 1. Not stating what you intend by the Head of the Church which you discourse about 2. Noâ— determining whither the King be such an head of Execution in matter of Religion as may use the Liberty of his own judgement as to what he puts in execution or whether he be not bound to execute your Popes Determinations on the penalty of the forfeiture of his Christianity which I doubt we shall find to be your opinion 3. Not declaring wherein the power which you assign unto him is founded whether in Gods immediate institution oâ— the Concession of the Pope whereon it should solely depend unto whom it is in all things to be made subservient Secondly Sophistical 1. In playing with the ambiguity of that expression Head of the Church and by the advantage thereof imposing on Protestants contradictions between their profession and practice as though in the one they acknowledged the King to be head of the Church and not in the other whereas there is a perfect consonancy between them in the sence wherein they understand that expression shrowding your own sence and opinion in the mean time under the same ambiguity 2. In supposing an absolute universal Head of the whole Catholick Church and then giving reasons why no King can be that Head when you know that the whole Question is whither there by any such head of the Catholick Church on earth or no. 3. In supposing the Principles and practises of the Primitive Church to have been the same with those of the present Roman and those of the present Roman to have been all known and allowed of old which begs all that is in Controversie between us and sundry other instances of the like nature may be observed in it Thirdly Inconsistent with the Principles and Practices of your own Church both 1. In what you ascribe unto Kings and 2. In your stating of the power and Jurisdiction of your Pope if the ambiguity of your words and expressions will allow us to conclude what you intend or aim at Fourthly False 1. In matter of fact as to what you relate of the obedience of your Church unto Kings 2. In the principles and Opinions which you impose on your Advertaries 3. In the declaration that you make of your own and 4. In many particular Assertions whose consideration will afterwards occur This is a business I could have been glad you had not necessitated me to the Consideraâ—ion of for it cannot be truly and distinctly handled 〈…〉 such reflections upon your Church and way as may without extraordinary indulgence redound unto your disadvantage Your have by your own voluntary choice called me to the discussion of those Principles which have created you much trouble in these Nations and put you oftentimes upon attempting their disquiet Now these are things which I desire not I am but a private man and am very well contented you should enjoy all that peace and liberty which you think not meet in other Nations where the Pâ—wer is at your disposal to grant unto them that dissent from you Lex talionis should be far from influencing the minds of Christians in this matter however the equity of it may at any time be pleaded or urged to relieve others in other places under bondage and persecution But I am sure if I judge your proceedings against other men dissenting from you in Conscience to be unjustifiable by the Scripture or Light of Nature or suffrage of the Antient Church as I do I have no reason to desire that they should be drawn into president against their selves in any place in the world And therefore Sir had you provided the best colour you could for your own Principles and palliated them to the 〈◊〉 so to hide them from the eyes of those who it may be are ready to seek their disturbance and trouble from an apprehension of the evil that may ensue upon them and had not set them up in comparison with the Principles of Protestants of all sorts and for the setting off your own with the better grace and luster untruly and individiously reported theirs to expose them unto those thoughts and that severity from supream powers which you seek
only and absolute head and Monarch of the Catholick Church which you would perswade us to believe that he is Kings then may even in Church affairs be strikers under him be the servants and executioners of his will and pleasure but Authority from God immediately in and about them they have none nor can have any whilest your Imaginary Monarchy takes place This one fundamental Principle of your Religion sufficiently discovers the insignificancy of your florish about Kingly Authority in Ecclesiastical things seeing upon a supposition of it they can have none at all But you stay not here for 3. You ascribe unto your Popes an universal Dominion even in Civil things over all Christian Kings and their subjects In the explanation of this Dominion I confess you somewhat vary among your selves but the thing it self is generally asserted by you and made a foundation of practice Some of you maintain that the Pope by Divine right and Constitution hath an absolute supream Dominion over the whole world This opinion Bellarmine Lib. 5. de Pont. cap. 1. confesseth to be maintained by Augustinus Triumphus Alvarus Pelagius Hostiensis and Panoruitanus And himself in the next words condemns the opinion of them who deny the Pope to have any such temporal power as that he may command secular Princes and deprive them of the Kingdoms and Principalities not only as false but as down right Heresie And why doth he name the first opinion as that of four or five Doctors when it is the Common opinion of your Church as Baronius sufficiently manifests in the life of Gregory the seventh That great preserver of your Pontificial omnipotency in his Bull against Henry the German Emperour affirms that he hath power to take away Empires Kingdoms and Principalities or what â—ver a mortal man may have as Platina records it in his life As also Pope Nicholas the second in his Epistle ad Mediolanens asserts that the rights both of the heavenly and earthly Empires are committed unto him And he that hath but looked on the Dictates of the forenamed Gregory confirmed in a Council at Rome and defended by Baronius or into their Decretals knows that you give both swords to the Pope and that over and over Whence Carerius Lib. 1. c. 9. affirms that it is the Common opinion of the School Divines that the Pope hath plenissimam Potestatem plenary power over the whole world both in Ecclesiastical and Temporal matters and you know the old comparison made by the Canonists cap. de Major Obed. between the Pope and the Emperour namely that he is as the Sun the Emperour as the Moon which borrows all its light from the other Bellarmine and those few whom he follows or that follow him maintain that the Pope hath this Power only indirectly and in order unto spiritual things the meaning of which assertion as he explains himself is that besides that direct power which he hath over those Countreys and Kingdoms which on one pretence or other he claims to be Feaudatory to the Roman See which are no small number of the chiefest Kingdoms of Europe he hath a Power over them all to dispose of them their Kings and Rulers according as he judgeth it to conduce to the good and interest of the Church which as it really differs very little from the â—ormer opinion so Barclay tells us that Pope Sixtus was very little pleased with that seeming depression of the Papal Power which his words intimate But the stated Doctrine of your Church in this matter is so declared by Bozius Augustinus Triumphus Carerius Schioppius Marta and others all approved by her Authority that there can be no question of it Moreover to make way for the putting of this indirect Power into direct Execution you declare 4. That the Pope is the supream Judge of faith and his Declarations and Determinations so far the Rule of it as that they are to be received and finally submitted unto not to do so is that which you express Heresie or Schism or Apostacy About this Principle also of your Profession there have been as about most other things amongst you great Disputes and wranglings between the Doctors and props of your Church Much debate there hath been whither this power be to be attributed unto the Pope without a Council or above a Council or against one About these Chimaera's are whole volumes filled with keen and subtil argumentations But the Popes Personal or at least Cathedral Determination hath at length prevailed For whatever some few of you may whisper unto your own trouble and disadvantage to the impeachment of his Personal Infallibility you are easily decryed by the general voice of your Doctors and besides those very persons themselves wherever they would place the Infallibility of the Church that they fancy are forâ—ed to put it so far into the Popes hand and management as that whatever he determines with the necessary solemnities in matters of faith is ultimately at least to be acquiesced in So your self assure us averring that he who doth not so forfeits his Christianity and consequently all the Priviledges which thereby he enjoyes and we have reason sufficient from former experience to believe that the Pope have he ability unto his will is ready enough to take the forfeiture Whither upon a Princes falling into Heresie in not acquiescing in your Papal determinations his subjects are discharged ipso facto from all obedience unto him as Dominicus Bannes and others maintain or whither there needs the Denunciation of a sentence against him by the Pope for their absolution you are not agreed But yet 5. You affirm that in Case of such Disobedience unto the Pope he is armed with Power to depose Kings and Princes and to give away and bestow their Kingdoms and Dominions on others Innumerable are the instances whereby the Popes themselves have justified their claim of this Power in the face of the world and it were endless to recount the Emperours Kings and free Princes that they have attempted to ruine and destroy in the persuit of some wherof they actually succeeded with the desolations of Nations that have ensued thereon I shall mention but one and that given us in the dayes of our Fathers and it may be in the memory of some yet alive Pope Pius V takes upon him contrary to the advice and entreaties of the Emperour of Germany and others to depose Queen Elizabeth and to devote her to destruction To this end he absolved all her Subjects from their Allegiance and gave away her Kingdoms and Dominions to the Spaniard assisting him to his utmost in his attempt to take possession of his grant and all for refusing obedience to the See of Rome You cannot I presume be offended with my mention of that which is known unto all for these things were not done in a corner And is it not hence evident that all the power which you grant unto Kings is meerly precarious which they hold of your Pope
then some of them have been If this be to blaspheme then some of your own Councils all your Historians many of the most learned men of your Church are notorious blasphemers But you wilfully mistake and begg that their Schismatical Papal faction may be esteemed the innocent Catholick Church of Christ without a Concession whereof your inferences and perswasions are very weak and feeble Of the like nature unto this is your ensuing discourse about the Contradictions which you fancied in your Fiat Lux to be imposed on Papists pag. 77. Two things you insist upon waving those that you had formerly mentioned as finding them in their examination unable to yield you the advantage you thought to make of them you feign a new contradiction which you say is imposed on Papists For say you while our Kings reign in peace then the Papist Religion is persecuted as contrary to Monarchy when we have destroyed that Government then is the Papist harrassed spoyled pillaged murdered because their Religion is wholly addicted unto Monarchy and Papists are all for Kings These are Contradictions is there not somewhat of the power of darkness in this But you again mistake and that I fear because you will do so There was no Persecution of Papists in this Land at any time but what was in persuit of some Laws that were made against them Now not one of those Laws intimate any such thing as that they were opposite unto Monarchy but rather their design to promote a double Monarchy on different accounts in this Nation the one of the Pope and the other of him to whom the Kingdom was given by the Pope and who for many years in vain attempted to possess himself of it And on that account were you charged with an opposition to our Monarchs but not unto Monarchy it self And yet I must say that if what hath been before discoursed of your faith and perswasion concerning the Papal Soveraignty be well considered it will be found that if not your Religion yet the Principles of some of the chief Professors of it do carry in their womb a great impeachment of Imperial Power Nor can I gather that in the times of our Confusion you suffered as Papists for your friendship and love to Monarchy whatever some individual Persons amongst you might do Seeing some of you would have been contented with its everlasting Seclusion so that your interest in the land might have been secured And whether your Popes themselves be not of that mind I leave to all men to judge who know how much they are wont to preferr their own interest before the rights of other men In the mean time you may take notice that whilest men are owned to persue one certain End they may at several times fix on mediums for the compassing of it opposite and contrary one to another Haec non successit alia aggrediamur via when one way fails another quite contrary unto it may be fixed on And whilest it is supposed that their end is the promotion of the Papal Interest it is not improbable but that at several times you may make use of several wayes and means opposite and contrary one to another and that this may be imputed unto you without the charge of Contradictions upon you But you may if you please omit discourses of this nature I am none of those that would charge any thing upon you to your disadvantage in this world Neither do I desire your trouble any more then mine own My aim is only to defend the Truth which you oppose Your next attempt is to vindicate your self from any such intention in your application of ejice ancillam cum puero suo as I apprehended Whither what you say to this purpose will satisfie your Reader or no I greatly question For my part as I shall speak nothing but what I believe to be according unto truth so if I am or have been at any time mistaken in my apprehension of your sense and mind I am resolved not to defend any thing because I have spoken it Homo sum and therefore subject to mistakes though I am not in the least convinced that I was actually mistaken in my conceptions of your sense and meaning in your Fiat But that we may not needlesly contend about words yours or mine I shall put you into a way whereby you may immediately determine this difference and manifest that I mistook your intention if I did so indeed And it is this Do but renounce those Principles which if you maintain you constantly affirm all that in those words I supposed you to intimate and this strife will be at an end And they are but these two 1. That all those who refuse to believe and worship God according to the Propositions and Determinations of your Church are Hereticks 2. That obstinate Hereticks are to be accursed persecuted destroyed and consumed out of the world Do but renounce these Principles and I shall readily acknowledge my self mistaken in the intention of the words you mention If you will not so do to what purpose is it to contend with you about one single expression ambiguously as you pretend used by you when in your avowed Principles you maintain whatever is suggested to be intimated in it Thus easily might you have saved your longsome discourse in this matter And as for the embleme which you close it with of the Rod of Moses which as you say taken in the right end was a walking staff in the wrong a Serpent it is such a childish figment as you have no cause to thank them that imposed it upon your credulity CHAP. 19. Of preaching the Mass And the Sacrifice of it Transubstantiation Service of the Church WE are arrived at length unto the Consideration of those particulars in your Roman faith which in your Fiat you chose out either to adorn and set off the way in Religion which you invite your Countreymen to embrace or so to gild it as that they may not take any prejudice from them against the whole of what you profess The first of these is that which you entituled Messach which you now inform us to be a Saxon word the same with Mass. But why you make use of such an absolete word to amuze your Readers withal you give us no account Will you give me leave to guess for if I mistake not I am not far from your fancy Plain downright Mass is a thing that hath gotten a very ill name amongst your Countreymen especially since so many of their forefathers were burned to death for refusing to resort unto it Hence it may be you thought meet to wave that name which both the thing known to be signified by it in its own nature and your procedure about it had rendred obnoxious to suspicion So you call it by a new old name or an old new name that men might not at first know what you intended upon your invitation to entertain them withal and yet it may be
that they would like it under a new dress which the old name might have startled them from the Consideration of But Mass or Messach let it be as you please we shall now consider what it is that you offer afresh concerning it and hear you speak out your own words Thus you say p. 81. Having laughed at my admiration of Catholick Service you carp at me for saying that the Christians were never called together to hear a Sermon to convince me you bring some places out of St. Pauls Epistles and the Acts which commend the Ministry of the Word This indeed is your usual way of refuting my Speeches You flourish copiously in that which is not at all against me and never apply it to my words least it should appear as it is impertinent I deny not that Converts were further instructed or that the preaching of Gods Word is good and usefull but that which I say is that Primitive Christians were never called together for that end as the great work of their Christianity This I have clearly proved Well Sir without retorsion which just indignation against this unhandsome management of a desperate Cause is ready to suggest be pleased to take a little view of your own words once more pag. 279. you tell us that the Apostles and Apostolical Christians placed their Religion not in hearing or making Sermons FOR THEY HAD NONE but in attending to their Christian Lyturgie and the Sermons mentioned in the Acts were made to the Jews and Pagans for their Conversion not to any Christians at all Could I now take any other course to confute these false and impious Assertions then what I did in the Animadversions I proved unto you that Sermons were made unto Christians by the Apostles for their edification that order is given by them for the instant preaching of the Word in and unto the Churches unto the end of the world and that those are by them signally commended who laboured in that work and what can be spoken more directly to the confutation of your Assertion You would now shrowd your self under the ambiguity of that expression the great work of their Christianity which yet you make no use of in your Fiat The words there from which you would get countenance unto your present evasion are these Nowhere was ever Sermon made to formal Christians either by St. Peter or Paul or any other as the work of their Religion that they came together for nor did the Christians ever dream of serving God after their Conversion by any such means but ONLY by the Eucharist or Liturgy Here is somewhat of the work of their Religion which they came together for nothing of the great work of their Christianity Now that preaching was a work of their Religion that they came together for though not the only work of it noâ— only end for which they so convened which no man ever dreamed that it was and that the Primitive Christians did by and in that work serve God hath been proved unto you from the Scripture And all Antiquity with the whole story of the Church gives attestation to the same Truth Sir it were far more honourable for you to renounce a false and scandalous Assertion when you are convinced that such it is then to seek to palliate it and to secure your self by such unhansome evasions Preaching of the word unto believers is an Ordinance of Christ and that of indispensible necessity unto their edification or growth in Grace and knowledge which he requireth of them In the practice of this ordinance were the Apostles themselves sedulous and commanded others so to be So were they in the Primitive following times as you may learn from the account given us of Church meetings by Justin Martyr and Tertullian in their Apologies and all that have transmitted any thing unto Posterity concerning their Assemblies For this end to hear the word preached Christians came together not only or solely or exclusively to the administration of other Ordinances but as to a part of that worship which God required at their hands and wherein no small of their spiritual advantage was enwrapped To deny this as you do in your Fiat is to deny that the Sun shines at noon day and to endeavour to dig up the very roots of Pâ—ety Knowledge and all Christianity to what ends and purposes and for the enthroning of what other thing in your room let all indifferent men judge And I shall take leave to say that to my best observation I never met with an Assertion in any Author of what Religion so ever more remote from truth sobriety and modesty then that of yours in your Fiat pag. 275. Nor did the Primitive Christians for 300. years ever hear a Sermon made unto them upon a Text but meerly flocked together at their Priests appointment unto their Messachs This I say is so loudly and notoriously untrue and so known to be so to all that have ever looked into the stories of those times that I am amazed at your confidence in the publishing of it It may be you will hope to shelter your self under the ambiguity of that expression made unto them upon a text Supposing that an instance cannot be given of that mode of preaching wherein some â—ertain Text is read at the entrance of a Sermon and principally insisted upon But this Fig leaf will not cover you from the just Censure of knowing men For 1. Their following adversative but meerly is perfectly exclusive of all preaching be it of what Mode it will be 2. The reading of one certain Text before Preaching is not necessary unto it but all preaching is and ever was upon some Text or Texts that is it consisted in the explication and application of the word of God that is some part of portion of it 3. Whereas it is certain that our Saviour himself preached on a Text Luk. 4. 17 18 19 20 21. as also did his Apostles Act. 8. 35. and the Fathers of the following Ages it is sufficiently evident that that was also the constant mode of preaching in the first 300. years as may be made good in the instance of Origen and sundry others You go on and except against me for saying that we hear nothing of your Sacrifice of the Mass in the Scripture and say you will neither hear nor see say you the passion of our Lord is our Christian Sacrifice do not I say sâ— too but that this incruent Sacrifice was instituted by the same Lord before his death to figure out daily before our eyes that passion of his which was then approaching in commemoration of his death so long as the world should last I must desire you to stay here a little This Sacrifice you make the main of Christian Religion Protestants for the want of it you esteem to have no Religion at all We must therefore consider what it is that you intend by it for I suppose you would not have us accept of we know not
Syriack transposeth the words and interprets the Sacrifice intended in them 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and when they were fasting and praying unto the Lord. Praying together with prophesying and preaching was their Ministry not Sacrificing To the same purpose all antient Translations not one giving countenance unto your fancy So well have you the plain words of the sacred Text for you 7. Are you not ashamed to boast that you have all Antiquity for your sense and meaning Produce any one antient Author if you can that gives the least countenance unto it This boasting is uncomely because untrue Bellarmine out of whom you took your Plea from this place and your qâ—otation of Erasmus in your Fiat cannot produce the suffrage of any one of the Antients for your interpretation of the words no more can any of your Commentators The Homilies of Chrysostom on that passage are lost Oecumenius is quite blank against you so is Cajetan Erasmus and Vatablus of your own and do you not now see what is become of your boasting And are not your Countrymen beholding unto you for endeavouring so industriously to draw them off from the Institution of Christ to place their Confidence and devotion in that which hath not the least footstep in Scripture or Antiquity but is expresly condemned by them both But to tell you my judgement you will prevail with very few of them to answer your desires Will they judge it meet and equal think you to change a blessed Sacrament that Christ hath appointed to embrace a Sacrifice that you have invented to leave calling upon God according to the sense of their wants with understanding as they do in that Celebration of the Eucharist which now they enjoy to attend unto a Priest sometimes muttering sometimes saying sometimes singing a deal of Latine whereof they understand never a word To forego that internal humility self abasement and prostration of soul unto God which they are enured unto in that Sacrament to become spectators of the Theatrical gestures of your Sacrificers Besides they are not able to comply with your request and to make your Mass the sum of their Devotion and worship of God without offering the highest violence to their Faith as they are Christians their Reason as they are men and that Sense which they have in common with other Creatures And what are you or what have you done for them that you should at once expect such a profuse largeness at their hands I. For your Faith if it be grounded on the Scripture as every true Protestants is your Sacrifice if admitted will unquestionably evert it To accept of a worship pretended to be of such huge importance as to be available for the impetration of Grace Mercy Pardon of sins removal of punishment life eternal for the living and the dead destitute of all foundation in or countenance from the Scripture absolutely inconsistent with their faith 2. It is no less to have a Sacrament which is given unto us of God as a pledge and token of his Love and Grace turned into a Sacrifice which is a thing by us offered unto God and accepted by him so that they differ as in other things so in their terms à quo and ad quem from what they proceed and by whom they are accepted 3. Besides they will quickly discover your pretensions to be contrary unto what the Scripture teacheth them both concerning the Sacrifice of Christ and also his institution of his last supper which is your Rule and comprizeth the whole of your Duty in the administration of it They do not find that therein Christ offered himself unto his Father but to his Disciples not to him to be accepted of him but to them to be by faith received 4. And whereas the Apostle expresly affirms that he offered himself but once if he offered himself a Sacrifice in his last Supper you must maintain that he offered himself twice unless you will deny his Sacrifice on the Cross. 5. Moreover it is greatly opposite to your Countreymens faith about the Priesthood of Christ and his real Sacrifice which are to them things of that moment that whosoever shakes their faith in and about them shakes the very foundations of their hope consolation and salvation They have been taught that Christ remains an High Priest for ever and the multiplication of Priests in succession arising meerly from the mortality and death of them that preceded they believe that no Priest can be sustituted unto him in his office to offer a proper Sacrifice unto God the same which he offered himself without a supposition of an insufficiency in him for his work It is true there are persons who in his name and Authority as he is the great Prophet of the Church do Minister unto it whom some of them either as the word may be an abreviation of Presbyter or out of analogy unto them who of old served at the altar do call Priests but that any should intervene between God and Christ in Sacrificing or the discharge of his Priestly office you will not find your Countrymen ready to believe For they are perswaded there are as many Mediators and Sureties as Priests or Sacrificers of the New Covenant 6. Moreover they believe that the Sacrifice of the Mass is an high derogation from the vertue and efficacy of the Sacrifice of Christ on the Cross and to be set up in competition with it 7. They are at a stand at the whole matter to see you turning bread and Wine into that very body and blood of Christ which suffered on the Cross and then to worship them and then to pray to God to accept at your hands that Christ which you have made and then to eat him But when they consider that by so doing you suppose your selves to effect that which they believe to be wrought only by the blood of the Cross of Christ once offered for all and therein fancy a Sacrifice of Christ wherein he dyeth not contrary to so many express Testimonies of Scripture they are utterly averse from it For whereas they look for Redemption Forgiveness of sins and Reconciliation with God by the one Sacrifice of Christ upon the Cross wherein consists the foundation of their hope and consolation because it being absolutely perfect was every way able and sufficient without any repetition as the Apostle teacheth them to take away sin and for ever to consummate them that are Sanctified you teach them now to look for the same things from this Sacrifice of yours which would make them question the validity and perfection of that of Christ. 8. And when they have so done yet they would still be forced to question the validity of yours because it is a pretended Sacrifice of Christ without his death which they know to have been indispensably required to render his Sacrifice valid and effectual 9. And they cannot but think that this repeated Sacrifice being pretended to be for the very same ends and purposes with
against Protestants for dishonouring her and all that you say in in your Epistle in its Vindication is railing at me for minding you of your miscarriage My whole Book you say is nothing but calumnies a bundle of slanders a meer quiver of sharp arrows of desolation I am not sorry that you are sensible that it hath arrows in it tending to the desolation of your Abominations But I challenge you to give an instance of any one calumny or slander in it from the beginning to the end If you do not do so I here declare you to be really and highly guilty of that which you would falsly impose upon another Free your self by some one instance if you can if you cannot your reputation will follow your Conscience whether it will be hard for you to find them again The substance of that Chapter is this which is all that I shall now say to your nothing against it Protestants yield to the blessed Virgin all the honour that the Scripture allows them or direct them unto or that the Primitive Church did ascribe unto her and the Papists give her the honour due to God alone whereby they horribly dishonour God and her CHAP. 21. Images Doctrine of the Council of Trent Of the second Nicene The Arguments for the Adoration of Images Doctrine of the antient Church Of the chief Doctrine of the Roman Church Practice of the whole Vain foundations of the pretences for Image Worship examined and disproved YOur next procedure is to your Discourse of Figures or Images and my Animadversions upon it And here you say you will come up close unto me you mean in replying unto what I delivered about it But Sir I thought this had been contrary to your design You professed at the beginning of your Epistle that it was so and have made good use of that declaration of your self by avoiding every thing in my discourse that you found your self pressed with and too difficult a task for you to deal withal Why do you now begin to forget your self and to cast off the pretence you have hitherto shaddowed your self under and excused your self by from tergiversation Surely you think you are upon this head able to say somewhat to the purpose which you despaired of doing upon others of as great importance and therefore now you may argue and dispute which before the design of your Fiat would not permit you to do As far as I can observe you speak nothing at any time but what you think is at present for your turn But whether it have any consistency with that which elsewhere you have delivered you make it not much your concernment to enquire But we shall quickly see whether you had any just ground of encouragement to harness your self and to come up as you speak close to me in this business or no. It may be before the close of our Discourse you will begin to think it had been as well for you to have persisted in your former avoidance as to make this profession of a close dispute and whatever you pretend to the contrary really you have done so You hide the opinion and practice of your Church about the Worship of Images which you seem to be ashamed of instead of defending them and except against some passages in my Animadversions instead of answering the whole which you seem to pretend unto I shall therefore declare what is the true judgement of your Church in this matter and then vindicate the passages of my Discourse which you take notice of in your exceptions and under both heads declare the abomination of your faith and practice in your Doctrine about Images and Worship of them The Doctrine of your Church in this matter I suppose we may be acquainted with from the Determinations of your Councils the explication of your most famous Doctors the Practice of your people and the distinctions used by you to quit your selves from Idolatry in your Doctrine and Practice And you will thereby learn or may at lest to what purpose it is for you to seek to palliate and hide the deformity of that which your Mother and her wise men have made naked to all the world Your Council of Trent is very wary in this matter as it was in most of its other affairs and indeed seeing it was resolved not to give place to the Truth it became it so to be that it might keep any footing in the minds of men and not tumble headlong into contempt and reproach Many difficulties it had to wrestle withal It saw the practice of their Church which was not totally to be deserted least the great mysterie of its Infallibility should be impaired and its nakedness laid open the general complaint on the other side of learned and sober men that under a pretence of Image Worship as horrible Idolatry was brought into the Church of God as ever was practiced amongh the Heathen did not a little perplex it It had also the various and contradictory opinions of the great Doctors of your Church and Masters of your Faith about the kind of Worship which is due to Images all which had great followers ready to dispute endlesly in the maintenance of their several conceits Amidst these rocks and oppositions the Fathers found no way to sail safely but by the help of general and ambiguous words a course which in the like difficulties had frequently before stood them in good stead Wherefore they so expressed themselves that no party at variance among them might think their opinions condemned that the general practice of their Church might be countenanced and yet no particular asserted that was most obnoxious to the exceptions of the Lutherans Thus then they speak Imagines porro Christi Deiparae Virginis aliorum Sanctorum in Templis praeertim habendas retinendas eisque debitum honorem venerationem impertiendam non quod credatur quoniam honos qui eis exhibetur refertur ad Prototypa quae illae representant with much more to that purpose And we may observe That the Decree speaks only of the Images of Christ the blessed Virgin and other Saints not expresly mentioning the Images of God the Father of the Trinity and of the Holy Ghost nor of Angels which they knew to be made and to be had in veneration in their Church nor do they anywhere reject the use makeing or worshipping of them Yea in their following words they do plainly allow of the figuring of the Deity Quod say they si aliquando historias narrationes 〈◊〉 Scripturae cum id indoctae plebi expediet exprimi figurari contigerit doceatur populus non 〈◊〉 divinitatem figurari quasi corporeis oculis conspâ—i vel coloribus aut figuris exprimi possit The words are as most of the rest in this particuâ—ar as an bigâ—ous as the Oracles of Delphos This cannot be denyed to be in them however That the unlearned people are to be taught that the Deity is not painted or figured
the Prototypes themselves to be the proper objects of religious adoration which as to the most of them you know we deny unless you have also a Command to warrant you For there is 〈◊〉 Institution of God himself a Sacramental 〈◊〉 bâ—â—ween the water in Baptism and the 〈…〉 and yet I do not know that you plead that the water is to be worshipped And thus is it as to your wooden Cross you put two sticks a cross and worship them you take them asunder and burn them it is the very instance of your Nicene Council for so they repeat the words of Leontius and approve them Act. 4. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 whilest the two sticks of the Cross are put together or compacted I adore that figure for Christs sake who suffered thereon but when they are separated I cast them away and burn them a pretty course whereby a man may keep a sacred fire and worship all his wood pile before he burns it And all this you are beholding unto your imagination for We have done with your exceptions and pleas and I dare leave it to the Conscience and judgement of any man fearing God and not captivated under the power of prejudices and a vain conversation received by tradition from his Fathers whither your pretences are sufficient to warrant us to break in upon those many and severe interdictions of God lying expresly in the letter against this usage and practice and so apprehended in their intention by the whole primitive Church In the Command its self we are forbidden to make to our selves that is in reference unto the worship of God treated of in that precept not only 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 sculptile a graven Image but also 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 any kind of likeness of anything in heaven earth or sea so as that a man should 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 bow down adore or venerate them or 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 serve them with any sacred veneration And the natural equity of this precept was understood by the wisesâ— of the Heathen For not only doth Tacitus witness that the antient Germans had no Images of their Gods but it is known that Nama Pompilius the Roman Solon admitted not the use of them Seneca decryes them Epist. 33. and Macrobius denies that antiquity made any image to the most high God What Silius Persius and Statius observed to the same purpose I have shewed elsewhere And from this Principle Paul pleads with the Athenians that the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 was not to be represented with images of Gold and Silver or carved stones Neither doth God leave us under this interdiction as proceeding from his Soveraign Authority but frequently also shews the reasonableness of his will by asserting the Incomprehensibility of his nature and minding us that in the great manifestation of his glory unto the people they saw no manner of likeness or similitude which should have been shewed unto them had he been by any sensible means or matter to be represented And yet Sir all this will not deter you from making Images and various Pictures of God himself and the blessed Trinity Indeed you say you do not do it to represent the essence and nature of the Invisible God but only some divine manifestations of his excellency or presence so that those images are only metaphorical But you venture too boldly on the Commands of God with your cobweb distinctions nor do you difference your selves hereby from the more sober Heathen who openly professed that in their many names and images of God they had no design to teach a multiplication of the Divine essence but only to represent the various properties and excellencies of that one Deity which they adored as Lactantius will inform you Neither I fear do you consider aright or sufficiently esteem the scandal that by this means you cast before the Jews and Turks who abhor the worship of God amongst you upon the account of your Images and Christians also kept from participating in their Sacra by this means Lampridius tells us in the life of Alexander Severus that Hadrian the Emperour erected Temples in sundry Cities without Images in them untill he was forbidden by the Soothsayers affirming that this was the only way to make all men become Christians as though the weight of the Controversie between Christians and Pagans had turned on this hinge whither God were to be worshipped in Images or no. As for other Images and Pictures which may as to a civil use be made which you set up in your Churches to be adored and venerated is not your Doctrine and practice a meer 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 a will worship condemned by the Apostle Col. 2. 23. A worship destitute of Institution promise command or any ground of acceptance with God A worship wherein you do what is right in your own eyes like the people in the wilderness and not that only which is commanded you which God complains of and reproves Deut. 12. 8 23. And besides you are conversant in a will worship of a most dangerous importance wherein you ascribe the honour that is due unto God alone unto that which by nature is not God which is downright Idolatry I know how you turn and wind your selves into various forms and multiply unintelligible distinctions to extricate your selves out of the â—nare that you wilâ—ully cast your selves into But you all agree well enough in this if your Nicene and Trent Councils your Baronius Vasquez Suarez and other great Masters of your Sacrâ— may be believed that they are to be adored and worshipped that is with adoration religious which what ever you may talk of its modes or distinguish about its kind is to give the honour due to God alone unto 〈◊〉 and stones And the best security you have to free you from the horrible guilt of Idolatry lyes in the pretended conjunction and religious relation that is between the image and its Prototype which is plainly imaginary and fictitious And now Sir I hope I shall obtain your excuse for having drawn forth this discourse unto a length beyond my intention your self having given me the occasion so to do by pretending that you would upon this head of Images come up close unto me which caused me to give you a little tast of what entertainment you are to expect if you shall think meet to continue in the same resolution CHAP. 22. Of Latine Service THe 18. Chapter of the Animadversions about Tongues and Latine Service is your next task Of this you say that it hath some colour of Plausibility but because I neither do nor will understand the Customes of that Church which I am so eager to oppose all my words are but wind Answ. No such thing as plausibility was aimed at in any part of that Discourse It was the Promotion or defence of Truth which was designed throughout the whole and nothing else For that are all things to be done and nothing against it What you are
able to except against in that discourse will speedily appear In the mean time pray take notice that I have no eagerness to oppose either you or your Church so you will let the Truth alone I shall for ever let you alone without opposition It was the defence of that and not an opposition to you that I was engaged in In the same design do I still persist in the vindication of what I had formerly written and shall assure you that you shall never be opposed by me but only so far and wherein I am fully convinced that you oppose the Truth Manifest that to be on your side and I shall be ready to embrace both you and it For I am absolutely free from all respects unto things in this world that should or might retard me in so doing But that I may hereafter speak somewhat more to the purpose in opposition unto you or else give my consent with understanding unto what you teach pray inform me how I may come to the knowledge of the customs of your Church which you say I neither do nor will understand I have read your Councils those that are properly yours your Mass Book and Rituals many of your Annalists or Historians with your writers of Controversies and Casuists all of the best note same and reputation amongst you Can none of them inform us what the Customs of your Church are If you have such Egyptian or Elâ—usinian mysteries as no man can understand before he be initiated amongst you I must despair of coming unto any acquaintance with them For I shall never engage into the belief of I know not what For the present I shall declare you my apprehension as to that Custome of your Church as you call it which we have now under consideration and desire your charity in my direction if I understand it 〈◊〉 aright It is your Custome to keep the Scriptures from the people in an unknown tongue somewhat contrary to this your former custome in this last age you have made some Translations out of a Translation and that none of the best the use whereof you permit to very few by virtue of special dispensation pleading that the use of it in the Church among the body of its members is useless and dangerous Again it is the Custome of your Church to celebrate all its publick worship in Latine whereof the generality of your people understand nothing at all and you forbid the exercise of your Church worship in a vulgar tongue understood by the Community of your Church or people These I apprehend to be the Customes of your Church and to the best of my understanding they are directly contrary 1. To the End of God in granting unto his Church the inestimable benefit of his Work and worship and 2. To the Command of God given unto all to read meditate and study his Word continually And 3. Prejudicial to the souls of men in depriving them of those unspeakable spiritual advantages which they might attain in the discharge of their duty and which others not subject unto your Auâ—hority have experience of And 4. Opposite unto yea destructive of that edification which is the immediate end of all things 〈◊〉 to be done in publick Assemblies of the Church And 5. Forbidden expresly by the Apostle who inforceth his prohibition with many cogent reasons 1 Cor. 14. And 6. Contrary to the express practice of the primitive Church both Judaical and Christian all whose worship was performed in the same language wherein the People were instructed by preaching and exhortations which I presume you will think it necessary they should well understand being 7. Brought into use gradually and occasionally through the 〈◊〉 negligence of some who pretend in the Churches of those dayes when the Languages wherein the Scripture was first written and whereinto for the use of the whole Church it had been of old translated as the Old Testament into Greek and the whole into Latine through the Tumults and Wars that fell out in the world became corrupted or were extirpated And 8 A means of turning the worship of Christ from a rational way of strengthening faith and increasing Holiness into a dumb histrionical shew exciting brutish and irregular affections and 9 Were the great cause of that darkness and ignorance which spread its self in former dayes over the whole face of your Church and yet continueth in a great measure so to do And in summ are as great an Instance of the power of inveterate prejudices and carnal interests against the light of the Truth as I think was ever given in the world These are my apprehensions concerning the Customs of your Church in this matter with their nature and tendency I shall now try whither you who blame my misunderstanding of them can give me any better information or Reason for the change of my thoughts concerning them But Carbones pro thesauro instead of either further clearing or vindicating your Customs and practice you fall into Encomiums of your Church a story of a Greek Bishop with some other thing as little to your purpose Fur es ait Pedo Pedius quid crimina rasis Librat in Antithetis doctas posuisse figuras Lundatur You are accused to have robbed the Church of the use of the Scripture and the means of its Edification in the worship of God and when you should produce your defensitive you make a fine Discourse quite to other purposes Such as it is we must pass through it First you say I have heard many grave Protestant Divines ingenuously acknowledge that divine Comfort and Sanctity of life requisite unto Salvation which Religion aymes at may with more perfection and less inconvenience be attained by the Customs of the Roman Church then that of ours For Religion is not to fit perching upon the lips but to be got by heart it consists not in reading but doing and in this not in that lives the substance of it which is soon and easily conveighed Christ our Lord drew a Compendium of all divine Truths in two words which our great Apostle again abridged into one Ans. 1. I hope you will give me leave a little to suspend my assent unto what you affirm Not that I question your veracity as to the matter of fact related by you that some Persons have told you what you say but I suppose you are mistaken in them For whereas the Gospel is the Doctrine of Truth according unto Godliness and the promotion of Holiness and Consolation which cannot at all be promoted but in wayes and by means of Gods appointment is the next end of all Religion they can be no Protestant Divines who acknowledge this end to be better attainable in your way then their own because such an acknowledgement would be a vertual renunciation of their Protestancy The judgement of this Church and all the reall grave Divines of it is perfectly against you and should you condescend unto them in other things would not embrace
you must if you speak intelligibly why do you oppose these things as inconsistent May not the people have the use of the Scripture and yet have the Word preached unto them by their Teachers Did not Paul preach the substance of the Word unto the Bereans and yet they are commended that they tryed what he delivered unto them by the Scripture its self which they enjoyed And 4. Why do you appropriate this urging of the substance of the Word of God unto your usage and practice giving out as ours the leaving of the letter of the Scripture to the Peoples disposal when we know the former to be done far more effectually among Protestants then among you and your self cannot deny it to be done more frequently 5. You reproach the Scripture by calling it the Letter in opposition to your conceived substance of the Word of God For though the Literal sense of Metaphorical expressions by you yet adhered unto be sometimes called the Flesh John 6. 33. and the carnal sense of the Institutions of the Old Testament be termed the Letter 2 Cor. 3. 6. Rom. 2. 2. yet the Covenant of God is that his Spirit and Word shall ever accompany one another Isa. 59. 21. and our Saviour tells us that his Words are Spirit and life John 6. 63. and the Apostle that the Word of God is living and powerful and sharper then any two-edged sword Heb. 4. 12. There is in the written Word a living and life-giving power and efficacy which believers have experience of and which I should be sorry to conclude you to be unacquainted withal It is the power of God unto salvation the immortal seed whereby we are begotten unto God and the food whereby our souls are nourished And all this is to not only as to the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that which is written but the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the writing or Scripture it self which is given by Inspiration from God For though the things themselves written are the Will of God and intended in the writing yet the Writing its self being given out by inspiration is the Word of God and only original means of Communicating the other unto us or the Word of God wherein his will is contained formally so as the other is materially 6. I find you are not well pleased when you are minded of the contemptuous expressions which some of your friends have used concerning the Holy Scripture but I am now enforced to tell you that you your self have equalled in my apprehension the very worst of them in affirming that nine parts in ten of it concerns not your particular either to know or practice For I presume you make the instance only in your self intending all other individual Persons no less then your self The Apostle tells us that all Scripture is given by Inspiration of God and is profitable for Doctrine for reproof for correction for instruction in righteousness You that nine parts in ten of it do not concern us to know or practice that is not at all He informs us that what ever things were written afore time were writttn for our learning that we through patience and comfort of the Scripture might have hope not above one part of ten of what is so written if you may be believed is useful to any such purpose Do you consider what you say God hath given us his whole Word for our use and benefit Nine parts in ten of it say you do not concern us Can possibly any man break forth into an higher reflection upon the Wisdom and Love of the Holy God Or do you think you could have made a more woful discovery of your unacquaintedness with your own duty the nature of faith and Obedience Evangelical then you have done in these words You will not make thus bold with the Books that Aristotle hath left us in Philosophy or Galen in Medicine But the wisdom of God in that writing which he hath given us for the Revelation of his will it seems may be despised Such fruit in the depraved nature of man will 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 produce The practice we blame in you is not worse then the reasonings you use in its confirmation I pray God neither of them may be ever laid unto your charge Your following words are a Commendation of the zeal and piety of the dayes and times before the Reformation with reflections upon all things amongst us since and this I shall pass by so to avoid the occasion of representing unto you the true state of things both here and elsewhere in the Ages you so much extoll Neither indeed is it to any great purpose to lay open anew that darkness and wickedness which the world groaned under and all sober men complained of You proceed to other Exceptions and say Where Fiat Lux sayes That the Pentateuch or Hagiography was never by any High Priest among the Jews put into a Vulgar Tongue nor the Gospel or Lyturgie out of the Greek in the Eastern part of the Christian Church or Latin in the Western you sleight this discourse of mine because Hebrew Greek and Latin were Vulgar Tongues themselves I know this well enough but when and how long ago were they so Not for some thousand years to my knowledge And was the Bible Psalms or Christian Lyturgie then put into Vulgar Tongues when those they were first written in ceased to be Vulgar This you should have spoken unto if you had meant to say any thing or gainsay me Nor is it to purpose to tell me that St. Jerom translated the Bible into Dalmatian I know well enough it hath been translated by some special persons into Gothish Armenian Aethiopian and other particular Dialects But did the Church either of the Hebrews or the Christians either Greeks or Latin ever deliver it so to translated to the generality of People or use it in their Service or command it so to be done as a thing of general Concernment and necessity so far is it from that that they would never permit it I thought you would as little have medled with this matter again as you have done with other things of the like disadvantage unto you For 1. I told you sufficiently before what a vanity it was to enquire after a Translation of the Old Testament out of the Hebrew before the Babylonish Captivity there being no other language but that understood amongst the Generality of the Jewish People And I then manisested unto you and shall do so further immediately that the Translation of the Scripture into Syriak which you enquire after could have had no other design amongst the Jews in those dayes then your keeping of it in Latin hath namely that the People might not understand it For if you shall persist to think that the Jews before the Babylonish Captivity at least had any other vulgar language but the Hebrew you will make all men of understanding smile at you at an extraordinary rate Some while after the return of
Their perswasion in this matter is expressed in the beginning of the Epistle of Clemens or Church of Rome unto the Church of Corinth 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the Church that is at Rome to the Church that is at Corinth both locall Churches both equall And such is the language of all the Writers of those times It was not so in the dayes of the Fathers and Councels of the next three Centuries who still accounted it a particular Church Diocesaen or Patriarchal but all of them particular never calling it Catholick but upon the account of its holding the Catholick faith as they called all other Churches that did so in opposition to the Errours Heresies and Schilms of any in their dayes We desire then to know when it became the only or absolutely Catholick Church of Christ As also secondly by what means it became so to be It did not do so by virtue of any Institution Warrant or Command of Christ You were never able to produce the least intimation of any such Warrant out of any Writing of Divine Inspiration nor approved Catholick Writer of the first Ages after Christ though it hugely concern you so to do if it were possible to be done but they all expresly teach that which is inconsistent with such pretences It did not do so by any Decree of the first Generall Councels which are all of them silent as to any such thing and some of them as those of Nice Ephesus and Chalcâ—don expresly declare and determine the contrary at least that which is contrary thereunto We can find no other way or means whereby it can pretend unto this vast Priviledge unless it be the grant of Phocas unto Boniface that he should be called the Vniversal Bishop who to serve his own ends was very liberal of that which was not at all in his power to bestow And yet neither is this though it be a means that you have more reason to be ashamed than to boast of sufficient to found your present Claim considering how that name was in those dayes no more than a name a meer aâ—ry ambitions Title that carried along with it no reall power and stet magni nominis umbra Secondly We cannot give our assent unto this Claim of yours because we should thereby be necessitated to cut off from the Church and consequently all hope of salvation farre the greatest number of men in the world who in this and all foregoing Ages have called and do call upon the Name of our Lord Jesus Christ their Lord and ours This we dare not do especially considering that many of them have spent and do spend their dayes in great Affliction for their Testimony unto Christ and his Gospell and many of them every day seal their Testimony with their blood so belonging as we believe unto that holy army of Martyrs which continually praiseth God Now as herein we dare not concurre with you considering the charge given unto Timothy by Paul 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 be not partaker of other mens sins so indeed we are perswaded that your opinion or rather presumption in this matter is extreamly injurious to the Grace of Christ the Love and Goodness of God as also to the Truth of the Gospell And therefore Thirdly We suppose this the most Schismaticall Principle that ever was broached under the Sun since there was a Church upon the earth and that because 1. It is the most groundless 2. The most unchritable that ever was and 3. Of the most pernicious consequence as having a principal influence into the present irreconcileableness of Differences among Christians in the world which will one day be charged on the Authors and Abettors of it For it will one day appear that it is not the various Conceptions of the minds of peaceable men about the things of God nor the various degrees of knowledge and faith that are found amongst them but groundless impositions of things as necessary to be believed and practised beyond Scripture warrant that are the Springs and Causes of all or at least the most blameable and sinfull differences among Christians Fourthly We know this pretence should it take place would prove extreamly hazardous unto the Truth of the Promises of Christ given unto the Catholick Church For suppose that to be one and the same with the Roman and whatever mishap may befall the one must be thought to befall the other for on your Supposition they are not only like Hippocrates twins that being born together wept and joyed together and together died but like Hippocrates himself as the same individuall Person or thing being both the same one Church that hath two names Catholick and Roman that is Universall-Particular no otherwise two than as Julius Caesar was when by his overawing his Collegue from the execution of his Office they dated their Acts at Rome Julio Casare Consulibus For as they said Non Bibulo quiâ—quam nuper sed Caesare factum est Nani Bibulo fieri Consule nil memini Now besides the failings which we know your Church to have been subject unto in point of Faith Manners and Worship it hath also been at least in danger of Destruction in the time of the prevalency of the Gâ—ths Vandals Huns and Longobards especially when Rome its self was left desolate and without Inhabitant by Totilas And what yet farther may befall it before the End of the world 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Only this I know that many are in expectation of a sad Catastrophe to be given unto it and that on grounds not to be despised Now God forbid that the Church unto which the Promises are made should be once thought to be subject unto all the dangers and hazards that you wilfully expose your selves unto So that as this is a very groundless presumption in its self so it is a very great aggravation of your miscarriages also whilest you seek to entitle the Catholick Church of Christ unto them which can neither contract any such guilt as you have done nor be liable to any such misery or punishment as you are Fifthly We see not the Promises made unto the Catholick Church fulfilled unto you as we see that to have befallen your Church which is contrary unto the Promises that ever is should befall the Catholick The conclusion then will necessarily on both instances follow that either your are not the Catholick Church or that the Promises of Christ have failed and been of none effect And you may easily guess which part of the Conclusion it is best and most safe for us to give assent unto I shall give you one or two instances unto this last head Christ hath promised his Spirit unto his Church that is the Catholick Church to abide with it for ever Joh. 14. 16. But this Promise hath not been made good unto your Church at all times because it hath not been so unto the head of it Many a time the Head of your Church hath not received the Spirit of Christ
for our Saviour tells us in the next words that the world cannot receive him that is men of the world carnally minded men cannot do so for he is the peculiar inheritance of those that are called sanctified and do believe Now if ever there was any world in the world any of the world in the earth some many of your Popes have been so and therefore by the testimony of Christ could not receive the Spirit that he promised unto his Church Again it is promised unto the Church Mysticall or Catholick in the first and chiefest notion of it that all her children shall be holy all taught of God and all that are so taught as our Saviour informs us come to him by saving faith you will not I am sure for shame affirm that this Promise hath been made good to all either Children or Fathers of your Church Innumerable other Promises made to the Catholick Church may be instanced in which you can no better or otherwise apply unto your Church than one of your Popes did that of the Psalmist to himself Thou shalt tread on the Lion and the Basilisk when he set his foot on the neck of Fredrick the Emperour But the Arguments are endless whereby the vanity of this pretence may be disproved I shall only adde Sixtly That it is contrary to all Story Reason and common sense For it is notorious that far the greatest part of Christians that belong to the Catholick Church of Christ of have done so from the dayes that Christianity first entred the world successively in all Ages never thought themselves any otherwise concerned in the Roman Church than in any other particular Church of name in the world And is it not a madness to exclude them all from being Christians or belonging to the Catholick Church because they belonged not to the Roman This I could easily demonstrate throughout all Ages of the Church successively But we need not insist longer on the disproving of that Assertion which implyes a flat Contradiction in the very terms of it If any Church be the Catholick it cannot therefore be the Roman and if it be the Roman properly it cannot therefore be the Catholick 2. If you shall say that you mean only that you are a Particular Church of Christ but yet that or such a Particular Church as hath the great Priviledges of Infallibility and universall Authority annexed unto it which makes it of necessity for all men to submit unto it and to acquiesce in its Determinations I answer 1. I fear you will not say so you will not I fear renounce your claim unto Catholicism I have already observed that your self in particular affirm the Roman and Catholick Church to be one and the same It is not enough for you that you belong any way to the Church of Christ but you plead that none do so but your selves 2. Indeed you do not own your selves in this very Assertion to be a Particular Church your claim of Universall Authority and Jurisdiction which you still carry along with you is inconsistent with any such concession 3. To make the best of it that we can what ground have you to give us this Difference between the Churches of Christ that one is fallible another infallible that one hath power over all the rest that one depends on Christ all the rest on that one where is the least intimation given of any such thing in the Scripture where or by whom is it expresly asserted amongst the Antient Writers of the Church Was this Principle pleaded or once asserted in any of the Antient Councels Some ambiguous expressions of particular Persons most of them Bishops of Rome in the declining days of the Church you produce indeed unto this purpose But can any rationall man think them a sufficient foundation of that stupendious fabrick which you endeavour to erect upon them I suppose you will not find any such Persons hasty in their so doing Those who are already engaged will not be easily recovered For new Proselytes unto these Principles you have small ground to expect any unless it be of Persons whose lives are either tainted with sensuality which they would gladly have a refuge for against the accusations of their Consciences or whose minds are entangled with worldly secular advantages suited to their conditions tempers and inclinations Thus I have with what briefness I could shewed you the uncertainty indeed falsness of those Generall Principles from which you educe all your other pleas and reasonings into which they must be resolved And now I pray consider the ground-work you lay for the bringing of men unto a Settlement in the Truth and unto the unity of Faith in opposition to the Scripture which you reject as insufficient unto this purpose The summe of it is an acquiesceney in the proposals and Determinations of your Church as to all things that concern faith and the worship of God The two main Principles that concurre unto it we have apart considered and have found them every way insufficient for the end proposed Neither have they one jot more of strength when they are complicated and blended together as they usually are by you than they have in and of themselves as they stand singly on their own bottoms A thousand falshoods put together will be farre enough from making one Truth A multiplication of them may encrease a Sophism but not adde the least weight or strength to an Argument An army of Cripples will not make one sound man And can you think it reasonable that we should renounce our sure and firm Word of Prophecy to attend unto you in this chase of uncertain Conjectures and palpable untruths Suppose this were a way that would bring you and us to an Agreement and take away the evil of our Differences I can name you twenty that would do it as effectually and they should none of them have any evil in them but only that whch yours also is openly guilty of namely the Relinquishment of our Duty towards God and Care of our own Souls to come to some peace amongst our selves in this world which would be nothing else but a plain Conspiracy against Jesus Christ and rejection of his Authority At present I shall say no more but that he who is lead into the Truth by so many Errors and is brought unto establishments by so many uncertainties hath singular success and such as no other man hath reason to look for Or he is like Robert Duke of Normandy who when he caused the Saracens to carry him into Jerusalem sent word unto his friends in Europe that he was carried into Heaven on the backs of Devils It may also in particular be easily made to appear how unsuited your means of bringing men unto the unity of faith are unto that Supposition of the present Differences in Religion between you and us which you proceed upon For suppose a man be convinced that many things taught by your Church are false and contrary to the