you in this kingdome and in our neighbour kingdomes may behold it with vexatiō of spirit Therefore notwithstanding your bragges before you come to the triall and that you tell vs misusing the place in the forehead of your booke of the fier in the moūtame yet we feare no more to encountre with you then they that see their enemies without armoure or ouerthrowne before they come to giue them the charge Lastly you like not my opinion that only the Scriptures should bee admitted for iudges in disputation But the opinion is good and the practise needefull seeing the holy scripture is the onely touchstone to make triall and the onely iudge to giue sentence in all questions apperteyning to the doctrine of fayth and saluation Howe reuerently I thinke of the chiefe councils of the fathers and doctors and what profit I acknowledge to come by their great labour it was declared in my answere But you euermore omit that which maketh not for your purpose where in you take an euil but yet a readie waye to condemne a good cause Notwithstanding to determine controuersies in iudgement of religion I admit them no seate but refuse them al not onely with one breath but with this one short sentence The rule is not ouerruled You shoulde haue proued that the doctours and councils haue not places contrary one to another and sometimes contrary to themselues If you had cleered them of this warre among themselues you had made them somewhat fitter to make peace amongst vs. In affirming that I say some of the fathers are condemned of forgerie you doe manifestly peruert my playne wordes for I spake of the places and you drawe it to the persons It is one thing to say some places in Austen are forged and an other to say Austen him selfe is forged Now that places in Austen are forged and namely many of his short sermans to the brethren in the wildernes it appeareth by the iudgement of Erasinus and by the notes of bastardie set downe in your owne editions Cyprians places are also acknowledged by your selues especially that notorious booke of the reuelation of Iohn Baptistes head where Cyprian maketh mention of king Pipin that liued fiue hundred yeeres after that Cyprian was dead But I neede not to alleadge any more you wil not deny but there are many Now there followeth a comparison that you ground your beliefe onely vpon the word of God and make it the onely obiect of fayth more thē we do Your reports here and in the ninth place confirmed 〈◊〉 an othe can haue no credit against your knowen doctrine and dealinges to the contrary For doe you not in this verie question pleade the authoritie of men as the warrant whereby we receyue the Scriptures Doe you not denie that wee are saued by faith onely Howe then doe you buylde your beleefe onely vpon the word of God or make that the onely obiect of faith more then we doe In the wordes following you keepe on your course prouing that which is graunted and affirming that which shoulde bee proued I dyd graunt that Councils Fathers and stories yeeld profitable helpes to shewe the estate of the Church from time to time and also for the better vnderstanding of the worde of God yet this is that which you make y ◠questiō as denyed by me and to be proued by you After this strange order of disputation you myght as fitly in forme and more truely in matter proue your doctrine blasphemous and your practises full of rebellion If you woulde proue this it were a true proposition but no confutation of that I say affirming the same So in prouing that doctors bring great helpes to learning you proue a trueth but not in any ouerthrowe of my answere For I haue acknowledged as much The questiō in deede is whether Councils and Fathers be iudges to giue sentence in controuersies and rules to ouer rule interpretations to the proofe whereof you shoulde haue tyed your selfe but without any further proofe you affirme it as a cleare matter and altogether out of dout Is this that disputation which you so boast of to proue that is graunted and to leaue that without proofe which is in question I shall not escape the note of audacitie If vpon your Censures false report I shal be thought to denie that which I doe most manifestly anouch But this note of audacious bouldnes cleaueth to you who blush not to say that the authoritie of Scriptures dependeth vpon the testimonie and allowance of men and that otherwise we know not which is the word of God and which not As many as hold this opinion had neuer their eares bored nor their heartes opened by the Spirite of GOD to heare and see more then the bare letter they neuer felt the lyfe and spirite thereof which is the holy spirite of God not onely bearing witnesse with our spirite that we are the sounes of God but also that the holy scriptures are the worde of God and his power to saluation that they are also the rule which should rule all and not be ouerruled of any Neither haue those disciples of the word humbled them selues at the footestoole of the Lorde to behold his absolute perfection in all his wayes especially in the full reuelation of his will to the sonnes of men by his holy scriptures neither haue they considered y ◠vanitie of vanities y ◠infinite hardnesse of heart and corruption of iudgement which is in all flesh This humilitie would confirme them in the faith of that saying no man knoweth the things of God but the spirit of God This Spirit leadeth vs into all trueth to knowe it and to proue it and to be comforted thereby not in the iudgemēt or after the sense of man but according to the worke of God opening our hearts and sanctifiyng our vnderstanding so that the worke and iudgement is of the spirite according to the woorde of God Herein also standeth an answere to your seconde assertion that by the fathers wee knowe which is the right meaning of the word of God for as the authoritie of the worde is confirmed by the spirit so are the interpretations thereof also As man is not the author so he is not the interpreter of the worde of God otherwise then by the autoritie of the worde it selfe This saint Peter proueth making it a reason why no Scripture is of a priuate interpretation because it came not from man but the holy men of God spake as they were moued and caried with the holy Ghost so that the holy Ghost doeth deliuer and warrant and interprete vnto vs the holy woord of God expounding scripture by scriptures and not leauing this high office to men otherwise then to ministers conteyning themselues within the faithfull seruice of their charge in their written and authenticall commission And you dare not say who dare say much y ◠an interpretation is true because an ancient father hath it
imagined in a â—â—eame tolde it before you were awake In the seuenth article the Iesuiâ—es are reported thus to teach The reading of the holy Scripture is not only not profitable but many wayes very hurtfull to the Church Here the â—ensurer would seeme to denie the doctrine that in so doing hee may both somewhat couer the absuâ—diâ—ie and accuse me for my author as â—â—steporâ—ing the same Yet after a storme of needelesse wordes hee doth in effect graunt the matter But his maner is for some aduantage to report their doctrines otherwise then they are caught or brought into question For the Papistes doe restraine the common people from reading the Scriptures vsing many reasons to proue them hurtful Besides other your bookes to this purpose there is one wâ—â—thie of remembrance written to y e Parliament in Queene Maries time where fiftie reasons such as they be are brought not â—nely to keepe the people from the Scriptures but for a more fure waye to keepe the Scriptures from them not suffering the translation thereof in the English tongue Wherupon the question wee haue in hand is this whether the reading of Scriptures be hurtful and therefore to bee forbidden Nowe the Censurer saith the rash and vnconsiderate reading is forbidden which is from the matter We doe not ioine issue in this whether the people shoulde rashly reade them or without consideration but whether you may make men beleeue that the reading of holy scriptures is hurtfull and therefore to be resâ—râ—yned There is no doubt but you holde both and teach both carefully 〈◊〉 appeareth by a late Iesnites booke written of this matter yet in disputation you woulde seeme onely to forbid the cash and unaduiâ—ed reading whereof we make no question But your reason is to be layde downe Whatsoeuer may hurt though it be in no fault yet it is to be restrayned the worde of God hath done such hurt therefore it is to be restrayned So you may aswell take away the foode of the body that body and soule may perish together because men may surfeit by good meates and fall into drunkennes by wholsoÌ„e wine Here let me for the scriptures fitly plead against you your owne rule pleaded in an other place for Philosophie It is say you a grosse ignorance for an abuse that may be to◠〈◊〉 demne the things which bee excellent giftes of God and sparks of his most high and infinite wisdom If this he true theâ— is it a blasphemie for an abuse not at all growing by the worde yet to forbidâ—◠〈◊〉 vse thereof and to keepe it in an vnknown tongue in a barbarous translation 〈◊〉 condemne not sparkes of Gods most higâ— and infinite wisedome but to conde 〈…〉 euen that high and infinite wisdome it selfe by making such restraintes and taking such sure wayes to debarre the children of God from the most necessary euidences of their heauenly inheritance But in this question agayne Payua doth deale more plainely to the purpose then the Censurer who borowing of Payua this place also yet leaueth out all that which maketh not to his purpose of couering and shielding the Iesuites from the trueth that fighteth against them For Andradius plainely confesseth that this is the first argument of the Iesuites why the Scriptures should not be read because as the Iesuites teach they haue giuen occasion to all heresies A very strange assertion but howsoeuer vnlearned and vnstable men deale yet the Scripture giueth no occasion of heresie much lesse of all heresies as these fellowes doe thus openly maintaine Therefore the Iesuites in teaching that such harme commeth by reading the word of God accuse the scriptures as hurtful many wayes and not profitable which is asmuch as they are charged withall in the 7. place The Censurer commonly faileth in leauing the question and prouing that which is not called into doubt as in this place bee proueth that the worde is without all fault when men misconster it or founde heresies vpoÌ„ the misunderstanding of it This was not in question yet it is wel prooued 〈◊〉 fitly to ouerthrowe the former doctrine of Iesuites for if the scripture be in no fault testraine not the Scripture but reforme the wrangling and peruerting wit if it be in no fault it is neither the occasion of all heresies nor a nose of waxe Your exaÌ„ple of Christ is easely truely returned against you For as Christ is a ruine to none but to those that receiue him not and to those that beleeue not in him so the Scripturè hurteth not but those that despise the reading the hearing and the practise thereof The contrary doctrine to alleaged â—ut of Matthew Yee erre not knowing the Scriptures nor the power of God The Censurer woulde 〈…〉 we the application of this place by two circumstances one to proue the word 〈…〉 articular the â—ther because as he sayth Christ spake not to the ignoraÌ„t people but 〈…〉 〈◊〉 Touching the first 〈◊〉 although the Cen 〈…〉 doth wel lay 〈…〉 the particular application of Christ 〈◊〉 spect of the present matters and hearers yet it will bee founde more then audaritie for any man so to restraine the doctrines of Christ deliuered in particular that they must reach no further then the present circumstances of the matter and of those disciples or aduersaries to whome hee spaket for this is nothing els but to make Christ a Prophet for a time not a Prophet for euer Also by that interpretation his wondeful workes most heauenly doctrines shall bee made to vs nothing els but a bare and naked storie to tell vs what Christ taught others and not what he hath taught vs and to declare what hee reprehended in them not what he reprehendeth in vs. But the Censurer will answerâ— hee mindeth not to 〈◊〉 other doctrines to the particular circumstances And why not any other sentence aswell as this to the Sadduces for nothing can be more generall then errour nothing more vniuersall then the ignorance of Scriptures which is I thinke in y â— Censurers iudgement the fountaine of all errour How commeth it then that he will stop so generalle streame restrayning that to a fewe which apperâ—â—â—neth to all And for the Sadduces they did not only erre in the doctrine of y â— resurrection but were otherwise enemies ignorant of Christ not knowing the Scriptures nor the power of God to saluatioÌ„ in him Wherfore Christ noted vpoÌ„ one particular occasion y â— fountaine of al their blindnesse and infidelitie as well as the cause of their ignorance touching the resurrection their foolish doubt of the seuen brethren Thus notwithstaÌ„ding y â— Censurers iudgement it is plaine that the doctrine of this place hath aswel a general vse as a particular that Christ noted the fountaine of all ignorance not the ignorance of Sadduces touching resurrection alone To your seconde point that Christ spake not this to the people but to y â— learned Sadduces first
knowledge how to distinguish aright But what is this to proue all distinctions good euen those that Iesuites make only to auoyde the power of trueth Simples generally are good seruing for the health of man but what is this to proue those euill simples good which haue lost their vertue and which an euill Apothecarie may serue in place of good for a triall of the Iesuites distinctions you referre me to their disputation but I may haue a sufficient triall of them and of their disputation before hand in this your booke if there were no other proofe to iustifie my report As you would bring your quilits into credit so you labour to bring my arguments and interpretations into discredit as lying and false but in a good conscience and according to the trueth I haue auowed them true and good as will easely appeare to the indiffereÌ„t reader You that before made me much inferiour to Edmund Campion now make mee inferiour to thousandes of the Iesuites scholers Whatsoeuer I am to the meanest of them the Lorde I trust wil inable me to mainteine his trueth euen against Campion your great champion to say nothing of his disciples I confesse your distinctions offend 〈…〉 as being full of 〈…〉 ltie and sometimes so darke and vnlearned that there appeareth neither good cause nor good vse of them yet you take it to heart that I should account them vnlearned and peruish As for the accusatioÌ„ of Iude against the despisers of good 〈◊〉 ses it was corrupcly brought against mee for reiecting your sophisticall deuises against the trueth for proofe whereof I referre me to these your distinctions chosen out of many for your purpose which one excepted are all vnlearned and peeuish seruing to put darkenesse for 〈…〉 ght and â—â—olâ—trie in place of Gods seruice For as they that distinguish not where the word hath distinguished may soone fall into schisme and heresie so also you in distinguishing where the worde admitteth no distinction do offend in like â—orâ— and with no lesse danger There is you lay cleare difference betweene an Idol and an image Surely this is somwhat that you saye for an idol is the image of the superstitious Gentiles and an image is the 〈…〉 and 〈◊〉 named Christians There is I graunt a cleare difference in the letters but no difference at all in the word no more then is betweene Omnipotent and Almightie For to passe by Phauorine Hesychius and some places in Plutarch who all make these two wordes of one signification Plato maketh the matter most euident who mouing a question what 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 should be maketh this answere 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 It is manifest we will make answere that those things are idoles which are seene in water and in looking glasses and those moreouer that are painted or set out in types or portratures other things of this sort whatsoeuer By these words of Plato the Censurer may learne that any image carued paynted represented by a glasse or seene in water is among the Grecians where the worde is in his owne countrie and proper vse called an Idol Tullie moreouer who could aswell iudge of the Greeke worde 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and of the Latine word image as the Censurer be in his translatioÌ„ maketh them one Lastly to returne to the holy Scriptures God in the second Commandement forbiddeth both the making and worshipping of an Image to represent the true God or any of the false Gods Thus much to she we your vnlearned and most vntrue distinction betweene an Image and an Idol which you and your fellowes repeate so often and vrge so much You doe it to vpholde Idoles vnder a more honest title of Images as you suppose but as they differ not in name so in nature they are all one euen stumbling blockes of offence the worshippers whereof are open idolaters I am taught by the word of GOD that there were materiall and are still spiritual sacrifices in the Church but for sinne I read y â— there is no sacrifice without bloud So that your second distinction of bloudie and vnbloudy sacrifices is plainly against scripture Iustice by faith wee acknowledge but merite by workes is proued to be against the worde So the mediation of Christ is according to faith but your intercession of saintes against the scripture For who is more mercifull then the Lorde that he may saue or who more ready to heare vs that he may be the Lordes remembranceâ— faith that beleeueth the promise and hope that patiently wayteth for the issue of faith we acknowledge and the distinction I haue layde downe in the ninth article Your counterfeit traditions of men and of the Apostles are al without warrant in the causes necessary to saluation But why haue you left out the distinction of the two worshippings Latria to God and Dulia to images Is it left out because wee condenine it and you now allowe no more of it All these distinctions are most daungerous when you will with some distinction or change of a name reteine still the same iniquitie forging such wicked deuises of man to disanull the truth of God Therfore they are but your vntrue assertions and vaine bragges that you distinguishe things into their proper natures that you can proue eche part of your distinction consonant to the word of God that when you haue so distinguished wee haue no more to saie that wee bewray our ignorance and finally that the truth is made manifest to euery mans eyes When any one of these fiue definitiue sentences is proued true I will acknowledge the rest I much maruaile that in such vanting speach you would not set down one true assertion of so many But you care not what you say to reproche the godly making account that your owne side will take it in good part be it neuer so vntrue neuer so reprochfull The fourth argument touching the libertie of your pen I haue answered already but I answere further you may haue it without print and if that will not content you there are printes inough neerer hande beyonde seas where you are if we may beleeue you so often affirming it The daunger persecution you speake of is a fruite of your murmuring spirits complaining without a cause For you go safely away w t many matters as much as you coÌ„playne against vs openly as intercepting all your bookes other Popish stuffe I thinke you doe much more brag among your selues of many escapes But if you had as many prints as you can set a worke what can you of lesser giftes write that the most learned of your side haue not written long agoe as Ecchius Pighius Hosius and which nowe Turrianus Andradius doenot furboish in a vaine hope at last to make an ende of Sifyphus labour What issue all these haue had of coursing discoursing againe the questious betweene you and vs we may consider it with great ioy of heart
but because he hath it according to a trueth and the trueth according to the word Hierome is a notable father of singular giftes but to passe ouer other places I verely thinke you woulde censure him for his interpretations vpon the eleuenth verse of the seconde chapter to the Galathians and vpon the sixt verse of the thirde chapter I write them not downe because I am desirous to couer such blemishes among other excellent gifts Whether the visible Catholike Church may erre or no which must be considered in the particular members and doctrine thereof I will for a triall admitte the example of your Church but not the presēt testimonie Their example doeth testifie y ◠Apostasie which their testimonie will not acknowledge though they should do it to iustifie the prophecies that were deliuered of it before and are nowe made so cleere as nothing may be more To your manifold examples brought to proue that heretiques cleaue to the scripture I answere first y ◠heretiques also cleaue to traditions ordinances receiued by word of mouth as appeareth by the complaint of Ireneus against them Secondly the Scripture is the worde of God in his manifest sense and construction of trueth and life and not according to the naked letter whereunto I graunt the heretiques did peeuishly sticke as you also doe where it maketh for your purpose The philosophicall proofes which some haue made asyou say for the wonderfull mysterie of Christes two natures and willes proue not so much for philosophie as you woulde inferre therby for without philosophie the scripture hath sufficient proofes for that necessarie doctrine as hath beene declared But by the way where is your iudgement in this assertion debate the matter with your selfe and you shall finde howe vnpossible it is for natural philosophy to determin the supernaturall misteries of the vnitie of God and man of two natures and willes in one person Iesus Christe which was a worke of God as great as the creation of the world Notwithstanding I haue acknowledged that philosophie being corrected and sanctified by the woorde may also be some helpe to heauenly wisedome but without it the woorde is sufficient to open all the counsell of God which apperteyneth vnto vs. Thus we take not away as you charge vs y ◠vse of Couneils Fathers other like helpes because of an abuse y ◠may bee but stand against them y ◠vnder some vse thereof woulde bring in and cōfirme the 〈◊〉 Therefore how doth the Censurer both accuse without conscience and giue sentence without iudgement who doth depriue you of these helpes Who doth call you to the bare letter How often am I enforced to repeate one thing to answere the same slaunder As Councils and Doctors or Philosophie may helpe wee allowe them and vse them as Iudges we admit them not and although we answere you to them when they are alleadged yet knowe that it is of that measure that is pressed downe and floweth ouer we are not bound vnto it with any condition But what reasons are these that followe in the Censure Eche man may deny the Scripture to be Scripture or wrangle at pleasure vpon the sense therefore we must admit Councils Doctors and Philosophie This argument is very vnlearned and peremptori◠against the maiestie of Gods worde A wicked man may wickedly take exceptions against it therefore it is not sufficient he◠may deny or wrangle vpon the sense therefore we must leaue the certaine touchstone of God and bee tryed by the vncertaine coniectures of men If the Iesuite had not abandoned all worldly commodities as not caring for the good blessings of God in this behalfe I might easely confute this reason by one drawne from a lesse assurance and lesse importance An enemie may deny the Censurers euidences of land or wrangle vpon the sense of the wordes therefore he must not stand vpon them but seeke other testimonies to mainteine his title But if these helpes or as you meane if the authoritie of men bee taken away it is as much as to saye controuersies in religion shall neuer be ended Wherein againe you make this weake and wicked argument if controuersies in religion be euer ended it must not be by the Scriptures only but by Councils Doctors and Philosophie This is therefore the effect of your Censure and definitiue sentence in this matter that which God cannot doe by his worde men may by their writings that which God cānot determine by his trueth men may ende and conclude by their lyes And further to examine this your bould and daungerous conclusion into what a sea doe you drowe vs calling vs to passe by the examination and iudgement of so many so large so doubtfull and so contrarie writers If the worde be darke are not the Fathers darker If the Scriptures bee doubtfull are not mens writings infinitely more doubtfull If any heretique or wicked man dare wrest the holy scriptures of God withe not much more dare to peruert to denie and to treade vnderfoote the writings of a mortall man It came from the deepest bottom of the Sea to drawe men from the certeintie safetie of Gods word to the daunger and vncerteinty of mens iudgement Concerning the heresies you mention as Trinitaries in Transiluania Anabaptistes in Poland Adamites in Germanie I pray God wheresoeuer these or any other heresies bee taught that they may be vtterly rooted out together with all other weedes that growe vp of their owne accorde wheresoeuer the Plowe is neglected For Hu 〈…〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 me for any thing I know in substance of Religion also for Caluinistes in Fraūce I answere they are no heretiques 〈…〉 rie these names but by your 〈…〉 speach that to bring the Gospell of God into cōtempt would make it to be thought the doctrine of those men whom the Lorde raysed vp as notable instruments to publish it in their time and as singular lights to chase away the mist which you had brought in in all places of your darke and sinfull kingdome How farre we differ from Lutherans in some poyntes you are not the fittest man to whome I may make complaint But howsoeuer you haue added your marke in the margent Note this yet the Scripture is no cause of this disagreement Vnder the name of Caluanistes you charge the Estate of this land with heresie for albeit we receiue not the name neither build our faith vpon the doctrine of any mā yet the Estate maynteyneth the doctrine which vnder that name you call heresie But you would onely seeme to lay that reproch vpon France In England you saye there are Puritanes the Familie of loue What an high and deepe slaunder is this to all the godly in this kingdome from the prince to the meanest person professing the religion your Catholikes excepted are all in England either to bee charged with the odious name of Puritanes or with the most execrable abominations of the Familie of loue What would not
this your spirit attempt in the aboundance of your heart if you durst as well come to open action as you dare cast out these open and intollerable flaunders against all the godly entred We all holde the same doctrine of faith published and mainteined according to the worde of God we come to the same felloweship and communion in the exercises of religion and ioyne all in the same defence of Gods holie Gospell yea we all though not in the same measure seeke the reformatioÌ„ of that that at the Lordes time shalbe reformed to a further growth and beautie in the bodie of Iesus Christ which is the Church Therefore notwithstanding your slaunder vpon examination it wil appeare that those in Englande which are slaundered with the name of detestable Heretiques are farre from the heresie most readie to condemne it or whatsoeuer is contrarie to the publique doctrine of faith mainteined by the present Lawes of the lande which doctrine is pure and holy and agreeable to the most holy word of God which the Lorde continue for his names sake with peace vpon Israel But to returne to the Censurer hee addeth a manifest vntruth saying that all the former heresies ioyne against the Romish Church in receiuing the scripture onely To wade no further the familie of loue which you cite are against you who haue their seuerall Gospell of the kingdome they build vpon the cursed thrise cursed bookes of H.N. also they scorne the scripture learned and in their loue to you acknowledge y e ministerie of y â— word to come froÌ„ the Pope Therefore they do neyther cleaue only to y â— scriptures nor liue in such mislike of your superstitions Nowe for the matter if your argument be good Heretiques cleaue to the word onely therefore it is naught you may aswell conclude that we must not alleadge the Scriptures at all because they alleadge them we must not dispute at all because they dispute which conclusions are all absurd For heretiques eate and drinke they clothe them selues all which are lawfull for all men to doe therefore not whatsoeuer they doe but whatsoeuer they doe as heretiques that is a marke of heresie Furthermore to proue wantes in the worde of God you demaunde howe it commeth to passe that the Scripture doeth not ende controuersies among heretiques I answere they are in the faulte as you also like heretiques are by resisting the trueth the worde is not to bee charged with any want But let me moue the like question and haue your Censure touching the doubt You that haue the Scriptures the Councils the Fathers you that haue Philosophie moreouer and stories and which is most of all the Popes breast and the fulnesse of the spirite you bragge off howe commeth it to passe that you haue not yet compounded your trouble some and long controuersie whether the virgin Marie was conceyued without originall sinne or no If the euidences you so stande vpon cannot in so long time ende so small a matter what will they be able to proue in the great questions of saluation Agayne hedemauÌ„deth how such heresies can be yf y â— truth be so cleare For triall of the truth a manifest proofe what power there is in Gods worde there must be heresies and schismes and God hath alwayes suffered false prophets teachers for a iust punishment of those that loue not the trueth neuerthelesse the Scripture is cleare and plaine where God giueth an eare to heare and a heart to vnderstand if it be hidden it is hidden to them that are lost But you that once or twice beate at mee as one whose zeale ranne before his witte staye your selfe Doe you y â— make no conscience to diminish the authoritie of the worde of God crye out agaynst vs if wee refuse the determination of men will you that haue alreadie in diuers plates pleaded against y â— sufficiencie of Scriptures now pleade for Philosophie Doctours and Councils as able to end al controuersies ratifie your title If we call you onely to the worde not the bare woord but adorned and richly attired with all fulnes of light and trueth the cleerest interpreter of it selfe doe wee in calling you hither depriue you of your euidences and witnesses seeking thereby to set you together by the â—ares for the title I knowe no euidences but the worde no witnesses but the holy Prophets and Apostles if your kingdome can not iustifie it selfe by these euidences and witnesses let her bee condemned by them for euer Your beadroule of fathers naming heretiques y â— abused y â— Scriptures I tooke not the tale of them they are brought in as vnnecessary witnesses of a matter alreadie answered not in question Lastly you conclude that we drawe in one line with the most cursed heretiques and you make them our progenitors because we appeale to the worde of God as the onely teacher and iudge in causes of religion If this be a faulte let it be required at our hande if it be your horrible slaunder against the worde and agaynst the Saints of God for giuing due honour thereunto y â— Lord require it at your handes in the defence of his owne glorie Touching Christian Franken TOuching Christian Franken which is the last of your foure partes it appeareth he hath vsed a true reporte agaynst the Iesuites because as hee assured him selfe before hande yet no man hath denyed the idolatries the superstitious and heathenish exercises wherewith he doth so plainly charge them As for the first part of your answere hereunto it standeth altogether vpon false argumentes as that He departeth from the sect of Iesuites therfore he is an apostata He discouereth their wicked superstition therefore he reuileth al catholike religion Austen confesseth that hee knew none worse then they that fel in Monastical life while he liued therfore FrankeÌ„ must be one of them All these conclusions are barely affirmed without proofe therefore may be truely denied without any further answere Notwithstanding it is to bee noted that againe you find no fitter taunt against M. Luther and Iohn Bale then to call them Friers and therefore you repeate the matter True it is they were Friers but forgiue them that fault seeing they did cast away their habit and kept a better course An other reproch followeth in charging vs plainely with coyning the newes of Rome and with suspition to haue coyned Frankens Dialogue whereunto I answere if we haue not coyned you haue And as for AusteÌ„s place it maketh for him against whome it is alleadged and against them in whose defence you bring it For if in Austens time with some good this Monasticall life brought forth others so euill that none were worse and hath declined euer since it was time for Franken to come out from the middest of you If so long ago in such puritie of the Church as was in Austens time the Monasteries did bring forth y â— worst men of
people in that Citie Did he note your two Popes two P 〈…〉 s together at 〈◊〉 time yea somtime three somtime foure Popes who 〈◊〉 the Chatre sometime at Rome sometime at 〈◊〉 sometime in other places Did hee euer consider that they which 〈◊〉 the storie of these men can not agree either in the number nor in the succession of these your Popes Any one of all these or of many other matters written by your selues being well coÌ„sidered might haue bene a weightie cause to keepe him from that fall For these bishops many of them succeeded with such wicked conditions and for so wicked purposes that their succession may shewe out matter to proue them rather the race of Antichrist and the spirit of fornications which long agoe beganne to worke the mysterie of iniquitie but hath nowe made vp all the measures thereof so that the prophesie is fulfilled that Antichrist in the succession of his ministers exalteth him selfe against all that is called God or is worshipped and sitteth in the Temple boasting him selfe that he iâ— God This is that succession of Antichrist which is glorious in the eyes of flesh and bloud and therefore made Woodeman depart from Christ whom whosoeuer wil folowe must euery day take vp his Crosse and folow him 3 As for his third reason of miracles in the Popishe Church I leaue it as very false insufficient Notwithstanding some I graunt wil beleeue if a man come from the dead which wil not beleeue Moses and the Prophets The kingdome and Church of Christ was planted in the power of doctrine and miracles and also by the power of the holy Ghost while Christ and his Apostles liued Now it is against faith if any looke for miracles to confirme the Gospell againe which is already so confirmed that an Angel from heauen or any miracle worker perswading otherwise must bee accürsed By miracles it is an easie thing to deceiue and bee deceiued seeing Satan to that purpose changeth himselfe into an Angell of light Such were many of the lying miracles not onely printed from Rome but receiued and registred at Rome and thrust vpon mens consciences to beleeue being matters that might easely drawe them headlonges into all error and idolatrie as was prophesied of this kingdome of Antichrist and hath no we appeared by the lamentable effect Therefore his third reason was to weake to haue drawen him froÌ„ the Church of Christ if he had bene tied to it but with one bande of loue to the trueth and power of doctrine 4 Xilanders fourth reason dath huâ—â—â—e vp and confound many reasons As that he was moued with the authoritie of the vniuersall of the visible and of the Catholique Church where like a good plaine dealer he left out that which he founde not in the Romish Church namely holinesse And what are all the rest without this holinesse Againe of those three notes that moued his falling off two are all one in worde and sense For the worde vniuersal and the word Catholique are as these two wordes Wodeman and Xilander which do not signifie two but one and the same thing That the Church of God must alwaies haue a visible and glorious Maiestie vpon the earth is not yet proued Also that the Church of Rome was neuer Catholique or vniuersall as it pretendeth the Churches of y â— East while they florished the Greeke Churches such as remayne at this day doe make sufficient proofe Againe we receiue the Scriptures from God hee by inspiration hath giuen them and hath alwayes kept them in his arke and the Philistins could not keepe the Arke from vs. The pretended victorie ouer heresies must be proued before it be admitted for a reason I graunt the Romish Church hath had a victorie and a tryumph in outwarde shewe ouer many thousand Saints most cruelly murdered for the trueth But ouer heresies it tryumphed not but in the time of her chastitie before the Lorde had giuen her a bill of diuorce after which time shee embrewed her selfe in the bloud of the Saintes and became the mother of all fornications With his other reasons hee linketh Saint Augustines saying so often misalleadged to proue the authoritie of the Church aboue the Scriptures that he woulde not beleeue the Gospel but onely vpon the Churches authoritie By these wordes his minde was not to determine which had greater authoritie the Church or the Scriptures but to declare against the Maniches in his owne practise what brought him first to esteeme the worde at his conuersion from inâ—â—deâ—tie The authoritie and consent of the Church may in such a case perswade one to receyue the worde which being receyued is of it selfe founde to be greater then that which first perâ—â—â—ded Thus of many reasons heaped vp together in y â— fourth place there is not founde one good The Romish Church was neuer vniuerfall or Catholike but particular and of â—ne â—erritorie though by vsurpatioâ—it enlarged her selfe by litle and little and the visiblenes therof is nothing for the true Church of the elect is inâ—isible Moreouer as I declared it neuer triumphed ouer heretikes it hath not any peculiar custodie of the Scriptures neyther dorth the authoritie of the Gospel depende vpon hir ratification being authenticall of it selfe Therefore al these reasons and put them together coulde not open the least dore for his departure if he had euer beene placed within the Church 5 The fift reason is that the Romish Church is the true Church because many that liued there are nowe Saintes in heauen and namely Dominic and Frauncis as Xilander doeth imagine I say as before there was a time when Ephraim spake there was trembling he exalted him selfe in Israel but he hath sinned in Baal and is dead Neuerthelesse seeing Xilander went so farre for a fift reason let vs examine what he hath brought There is no doubt saith he but Dominiâ— Fraâ—ncis and others are Saintes in heauen therefore it cannot bee that they liued in errour Who hath made it out of doubt to vs that they are in heauen seeing there are writte 〈…〉 many 〈…〉 dent lyes and blasphemies of them in the Legenda and that most detestable Alcaron called the booke of confo 〈…〉 who will beleeue that Dominic raysed the dead which you teach Who can heare or reade those your blasphemies in making Fryer Frauncis an other Iesu in type and figure matching him w t Christ froÌ„ poynt to poynt and his miracles with Christs myracles If the Censurer had not menâ—ioned Frauncis the Fryer among his saints it myght haue beene hoped the Iesuites would refourme that booke or rather condemne it to the pit of hell But to returne to Xilanders argument it is a very bad one prouing the lesser doubt by the greater For it is not so great a doubt what those famous Fryers taught as whether they be in heauen Neuerthelesse if it were out of doubt they are in heauen yet
A REPLIE to a Censure written against the two answers to a Iesuites seditious Pamphlet By William Charke 1. Reg. 20. 11. Let not him that gurdeth on his armour boast as he that putteth it off ⧠Imprinted at London by Christopher Barker Printer to the Queenes most excellent Maiestie ANNO. DOM. 1581. To the Christian Reader AS there haue risen vp in the Church from time to time false Prophets teachers which oppose them selues to the holye Prophets of God and true teachers of his worde so among the people where such contrarietie of doctrines hath bene deliuered like contrarietie of hearers hath alwayes followed not onely in iudgement but also in their affection For as some through the mercie of God and the sincere preaching of the Gospel haue yeelded obedience to his worde so many caried away with corrupt teachers haue for want of iudgement embraced errour in place of trueth and carnall worshippings in steade of the pure worship of God which euermore consisteth in spirit and trueth Against this so dangerous infection of false teachers the holy Apostle Saint Iohn hath giuen vs a most wholesome counterpoyson willing vs not to beleeue euery spirit but to trie and examin the spirits whether they be of God But to speake of our times this examination and trial may seeme very hard seeing the teachers on both sides are thought learned and al pretend to teach the trueth For it is not denyed but both sides haue had their education in schooles of learning they haue also laboured in the liberall artes to furnish them selues to greater matters wherupō they al bring very good words some shewe of reason seeme to haue no small force of perswasion Howe then shall the simple people iudge howe shal they discerne whose iudgement and discretion should be framed by their teachers and setled by their sownd and plaine doctrine To this I answere S. Iohn in that place maketh the matter more easy then it appeareth at the first shewe For exhorting vs not to beleeue euery spirit he doeth drawe our consideration to the spirit and doctrine of the teachers and not to these outwarde giftes of an eloquent stile or a sweete sownde of pleasing wordes which may be common to good and euil yea wherein the euil for want of a good cause labour to excell and from which the godly absteine for the sufficiencie of their cause without it are also restrayned lest our faith should stande in the wisedome of men and not in the power of God But Saint Iohn to make this his trial of spirits yet more ful plaine addeth that euery spirit which confesseth Christ Iesus to haue come in the fleshe is of God and euery spirit which confesseth otherwise is of Antichrist Now therefore let vs see bowe the Apostle frameth vs to a spirit of discretion to discerne the spirits of true and false teachers If any man shall teach and consesse that Christ was made man and ordeyned of God the Father a Prophet alone to teach a King alone to rule and a Priest alone to sanctifie vs and to reconcile vs to his Father by the obedience of faith this confession and doctrine is of the holy spirit of God and to be receiued what spirit soeuer shall mightily or cunningly perswade the contrary On the other side if any spirit shall teach that Christ is not our only teacher by his holy Gospel but that we must admit vnwritten beleefe and traditions from we know not whom to be of like authoritie with the written worde secondly if any spirit make not Christ alone our King and head to rule vs by his holy spirit but teache that a mortall and sinfull man must sit in our consciences and for hatred or gaine which is his practise bynde or loose at his pleasure lastly if any spirit impeach the alsufficiencie and entier vertue of Christs sacrifice offered vp once for euer teach that themselues must renforce it from day to day by the continuance of their dayly sacrifice of the Masse offered for the quick dead it appeareth manifestly that such spirits are not of God nor their doctrine to be receiued though it be deliuered with neuer so much perswasion of eloquent speach or offered to vs with neuer so much expectation of worldly honour For to denie the most absolute vertue and effects of Christes offices is in effect to denie the authoritie of his person and to lose the benefite of all his graces because they withdrawe a part To this examination of spirits without regard of persons the godly Reader is to be exhorted For the doctrine that giueth al glorie to God is of God the doctrine that attributeth some glory and ascribeth some merites to man is of men the religion also that is agreeable to flesh and blood making an acceptable sounde and shewe to the outward senses is carnall and vayne finally what religion so euer is not ioyned with the knowledge and exercises of the worde of God that is no true religion but a disguised and blinde maske full of deuilish superstition The aduersaries take a contrary course in making triall of their doctrine for they woulde haue this examination of spirits vtterly suppressed and vnder one title of that falsly named Catholique Church of Rome they would bind all men to receiue for vndoubted true religion what corruptions so euer they teach without any further question Which being graunted them the examination of spirits neede not for if Rome affirme it the matter is sufficient and must not be denied Also these enemies of the trueth leaue the touchstone which tryeth al metalles namely the doctrine and for it they drawe the teachers into examination supposing that if they can discredit or disgrace the men they shall easily vndermine and ouerthrowe their doctrine For triall of this long practise there are so many bookes that I neede not alleadge any but this late Censure written as in defence of popish religion but the authour shifting his hands very cunningly of the direct and plaine maintenance of the questions in controuersie doth but offer at them or giue some false fire his leauell and batterie is against their persons and credit that maynteining the trueth cannot but assaile the doctrines and put in hazarde the authoritie of the popish Church Therefore I am in the name of the trueth to craue it of the good Reader to lay aside respect of men the regard of those giftes that may please him much and deceiue him more and if it be his desire not so much to see the fight as to beholde the issue enioy the victory then let him imbrace that doctrine most that attributeth least to the broken arme or blinde iudgement of man that in the Church al the power and wisedome of our saluation may be ascribed to God alone through Christ Iesus our Lorde Amen W. Ch. A Replie to a Censure written against the two answers to a Iesuites seditious Pamphlet IT
afterward But your definition is first to bee noted as comming somewhat out of place and vntrue Touching the place I will not contend the matter cannot be iustified in that you define Sectaries to be in deede such as cut themselues off in opinion of religion from the general body of the Catholike Church For herein as not remembring your owne arte you confound heretiques with sectaries making no distinction betweene the generall and the speciall for howesoeuer the names are sometimes confounded in the receiued distinction of matter all heretiques are sectaries but all sectaries are not heretiques so that being diuers in nature they cannot haue the same proper definition Beside your fault of confounding euen in a definition which should serue to distinction and to bring cleere knowledge this also is to bee considered that of the two it doeth most fitly agree vnto heretiques whose sinne heresie standeth in cutting them selues off from the communion of the Church in opinion and doctrines of faith Lastly though one man once diuide him selfe and so be guiltie in this particular of schisme yet by the word in common vse wee call it not a sect till there bee many drawen away For if Layolas alone had troden that newe path and vowed that speciall vowe for his diuision and superstitious trade hee alone should not haue bene called a sect Wherefore your definition hath bewrayed great want of learning But to giue you a truer definition A sect according to the true etymologie of y â— word is a companie of men that differ from the rest of their religion eyther in matter of forme of their profession Seing therefore the Iesuites receiue a peculiar vowe to preache as the Apostles did euery where to do it of free cost to whippe and torment them selues after the example of a sect called by the name of whippers and condemned long agoe seeing they also as a diuided companie from all others doe followe the rule of Layolas it appeareth plainely the Iesuites are a sect As for the examples of Elias Elizeus Daniel and Iohn Baptist they are no lesse wickedly then vnlearnedly alledged to auow their order What are you able to bring out of the woord of God why Elias shoulde after more then 2000. yeeres bee brought in for a patrone of Friers What was in Elizeus or Daniel that may liken them to Iesuites Iohn Baptist that may seeme to make most maketh nothing at all for you for it is to be thought hee was an extraordinarie and perpetual Nazarite therefore his calling warranted him for his austere and extraordinarie attire and diet which restraint or the like is not nowe laid vpon those that teach in the Churche hauing all their seuerall offices expressed in the worde of God Moreouer Iohns preaching in the wildernes of Iudea did not withdrawe him as is imagined into solitarie and waste mountaines but the hillie part of Iudea was in comparison of other places called a wildernesse being notwithstanding a countrey well inhabited as appeareth in the booke of Iosua Thus it is cleere that neither your definition nor examples can proue the Iesuites to bee no sect Neuerthelesse as I haue answered one definition with another so will I answere your examples farre from the matter with examples plainelie declaring that which is in question Saint Paul doth accuse the Corinthes of Schisme only because they said I am of Paul I am of Apollos I am of Cephas I am of Christ These did not cut themselues off in opinion of religion they did not holde a seueral faith to themselues but for this Schisme hee sharpely rebuked them saying Is Christ deuided Therfore the Iesuites following in y â— like or in more wicked steppes receiue sentence from Saint Paule wherein they are accused of Schisme and condemned as a sect For do not these votaries of Rome do not these irregulars say I am of AusteÌ„ I am of Frauncis I am of Dominick and these last men I am of Iesus Is Iesus then diuided or not rather you diuided ye Iesuites being cut off as heretiques from the mysticall body of Christ and rent as Sectaries in your own bowels Also the Pharises are an other example to ouerthrowe your definition proue y â— Iesuits a sect For they did not cut off themselues from the religion of the Church yet for their seuerall order they were a notorious sect As I haue plainely shewed that the Iesuites are a sect so it is true that they are a blasphemous sect For what a blasphemy is it to abuse the most blessed name of Iesus for a colour to their blasphemous practises in rooting out the pure and sincere preaching of the Gospell that afterwarde they may bring in all the execrable superstitions heresies of Poperie and after many outrages establishe againe the intolerable yoke of Antichrist This also increaseth the offence that they drawe to themselues alone the most gracious and comfortable title of our fellowship and vnion in Christ Iesus which is common to all that do beleeue without any diuision or distinction Wherefore howsoeuer the discouerie went neere the heart and made you complaine for me to call the Iesuites a blasphemous sect was neither lewd nor vnlearned It is one of your nothings to make a shew of something when you say they call not themselues Iesuites but the Societie of Iesus making a distinction where none is or if there hee any it is made against the receiued speach euery where and against your selfe who in calling them so often Iesuites doe by the practise allowe your selfe the libertie of that speach which you reprehend in mee And to discouer your manifest vntrueth in this small matter that can yeelde you nâ— reward of a lye I must tell you that Turrian an other Layolas calleth his societie by the name of Iesuites which you denie The second note against me as contumeliously deprauing all religious men to deface the Iesuites is an other slaunder for I honor and pray for all religious men as many as for true religion are vnited in the body of Christ which is the Churche But if you account only the popish Monks and Fryers religious men and so take the tytle of religion onely to your selues excluding al others euen those also that are of your church as many as are not of some regular order and habit you haue wel layd downe my meaning for I holde them all as wicked ministers of Antichrist and worthy to be seuerely censured for making the name of religious men proper to themselues which is common to all Christians euery where Neither am I herein to bee compared with the olde Heretiques for they dispraised the good and I haue spoken against the badde they did it vntruely and I in trueth Therefore it is a manifest misconstruing of my wordes as deliuered to the dispraise of theÌ„ whâ—â— it was not in my thought to dispraise as also it waâ— a plaine iniurie to match those
Take ye Eate ye bynde them What moued you here to cite your Clement Ambrose Cyprian with others I knowe not except it were some meriment to ioyne with your similitude of singing for in good earnest you minde not by those places without matter in them to proue that the wordes of Christ Doe this in remembrance of me were onely saide to the Ministers touching Consecration and not to the people also for their participation In the twelfth Article the Iesuites are reported to say Traditions are of equall authoritie with the worde of God wee must beleeue them though they bee manifestly against the Scripture Here the reporte and the texte vouched to disproue their doctrine are both censured The first for adding we must beleeue them though they be manifestly against the Scripture for reporting the rest so generally and confusedly Touching y â— latter point if my report of your doctrine be in these wordes Traditions are of equall authoritie with the worde of God meaning it of some only for who would thinke it of all you hauing so many and so feeble why doe you charge mee as generally and confusedly saying al traditions are equal with y â— scriptures Was it I pray you to deserue your owne note of a sounde lye for a parting blowe which false mis 〈…〉 you haue doubled to make it the sounder For aunswere to the former poyut I doe not onely auow that I haue faythfully reported my authors wordes which is alwayes my iust defence against your vniust flaunder laying them vpon me but I say further that their practise compared with their wordes will â—ustifie the report as truely layde downe against them For proofe whereof not to goe further the Censurer rehearseth amongest these traditions which the Popish Church charge our faith withall the number of the bookes of Scripture the Lent fast Of al other traditions these two are taken out to stande for their owne credit and for the credit of the rest let vs therefore see what treasons there are against God in these your traditions First the Apocrypha bookes are not in the auncient Canon or language of Canaan the fathers haue disauowed them they are euidently repugnant to the doctrine of the holy scriptures and dis 〈…〉 eeing among them selues Yet your Trent conspirarie doeth adde them to the number of the Canonical bookes and bolde all men accursed that holde them not for canonicall scriptures Therefore this your tradition is manifestly against the word of God Further also what is more manifest against the woorde of God then the doctrine of deuils The Lent fast as you commaunde to keepe it for conscience sake forbidding meates created of God to bee taken with thankesgiuing is plainly called a doctrine of deuils Furthermore your opinion is playnely deliuered to be with this distinction Ecclesiasticall traditions are of no greater authoritie then the writings and other decrees of the Church and Apostles traditions are of no lesse authoritie then if they had bene written by them or then are the other thinges which they wrote This is confusedly taught and needeth yet more plainenesse for not all orders deliuered by the Apostles are to bee kept perpetually and vnchangeably of like authoritie with the doctrine of the Gospell which they preached The Apostolique doctrine is perpetuall subiect to no varietie of persons of times or places but some traditioÌ„s that is some orders are altered as that in the acts where they commaunde to absteine from strangled and from blood for it appeareth that the Apostles commanded not this for a perpetuall order alwayes inuiolably to be obserued but onely for a time to auoids offences which cause ceasing the order or tradition was no longer in force Againe some orders might be set downe by them for comlinesse which yet were not to be beleeued as necessary partes of saluation nor yet to remayne for euer in that forme or kynde and therefore can not be matched with the Apostolique doctrine of fayth which is euer al one and which whosoeuer beleeueth not cannot bee saued Nowe touching your pretensed Apostolicall traditions I vtterly denie that there are any such beside those which are euidently shewed or by iust consequence fitly gathered out of the written worde For what so euer is necessary to saluation is in this sort to be proued by the holy Scriptures Therefore your Censureshippe dyd well to adde If they be certaynly descended from Christ and his Apostles But how can this I pray you be certaynely knowen but by the holy writings can any other custome or testimonie assure your consciences what came vndoubtedly from Christ or what from his Apostles Is there any one of your traditions that you can vouch to descend from so sufficient authors otherwise then by report of insufficient witnesses What is it then for you to boast of inuincible arguments to proue diuers doctrines not written but left by woorde of mouth onely whereas you bryng nothing but counterfeyt Couneils erring Fathers fabulous stories and Apocrypha scriptures This is right the bragging Apostle and a shewe of the vaine chalenger Yf a man coulde be feared with the guilte of your armour or with your plume of feathers you woulde bee a worthie champion wounding more with a vayne feare then with the force of your shrinking arme In this encounter of al your profes you haue sorted out two the first is out of that excellent chapter to the Thessalonians conteining a prophecie and reuelation of Antichrist For an answere to which place it is first to be vnderstoode that the worde Tradition in the Apostles speach commeth as it doth in Latin of a verbe to deliuer so that whatsoeuer y â— Apostle deliuered to the Churches those were the traditions hee lefte with them Therefore I denie that Paule doth in any place by tradition signifie any vnwritten veritie but that as in other places he vnderstandeth the doctrine of the Gospel which in the sundrye partes thereof he deliuered This appeareth apparauntly by the place so cited for your purpose without regarde of any more then the worde Tradition For in the verses nexte before the Apostle maketh mention of the Thessalonians faith to the trueth saying God hath called you thereunto by our Gospell to obteyne the glory of our Lorde Iesus Christ and therupon inferreth this conclusion now therefore brethren stand fast holde the tradition which you haue learned eyther by worde or by our epistle Whereby it plainly appeareth that the traditions or thinges deliuered by him partly by word and partly by writing were the diuers partes of the Gospell which hee had taught them Wherefore the written woorde affordeth you no proofe for vnwritten verities The seconde is of doctrines which you say wee holde not by record of writing but by word of mouth from Christ and his Apostles as for example baptisme of infants celebratioÌ„ of Sunday y â— number of y â— bookes of scripture the fast of
to haue fully answered the chiefe matter of this article but you drawing me on with your tauntes I must answere to them also For the difference of an Image and an Idol you knowe my answere and I acknowledge not your difference Couching your honours done to the creature and creator I doe not maliciously confound them but you do vnlearnedly make a distinction in wordes when in deede there is none When wee teach y t al your worshippes are idolatrous we offer you no wrong neither do we therin blind our hearers or charge you with doctrines which are not your own For if any worship be greater then other that you giue to the crosse and image of Christ you can not denie this being your playne doctrine as I haue declared by Thomas by Saunders by Andradius so expressed as we can not more expresse it against you Therefore we doe not mainteine matter of rayling against the true Catholike Church which hath alwayes more detested all Idolaâ—â—â—e then your Church doeth or can defende it For your repeated words God forgiue you I must conster them in the best part but comming in the middest of other scosses they giue me occasion to note that many offend in the vttering of them against God whose name they take in vaine and against their neighbour whome they curse and tant with wordes that import a charitable prayer which is to be reformed in our speach least such sinnefull vse of good wordes increase the note of euill maners All these XIII articles are graunted yet your Censureshippe doeth couer the graunt most carefully as one that knowes well what shame it is playnely and openly to graunt so foule absurdities You might haue prouided better for your owne credit and agaynst mine if you had directly denied but one of them to proue at the least one slaunderous false report for this alone woulde haue preuailed more against mee then all your naked vauntes and vndeserued sentences of disgrace But no one being denyed what cause had you as fearing no examination of your booke and without all regarde of trueth to saye Thus I haue answered briefely your slaunderous false reportes of the Iefuites doctrine In place of an answerer you haue only shewed your self a cauiller passing by the matter you haue propâ—unded to your selfe newe propositions from the purpose such as you might more easily confute theÌ„ those wherewith you are charged Therefore it appeareth notwithstanding your Censure that I haue with seemely and fitte wordes charged the Iesuites that they teach blasphemies against God and his worde that they are the Popes procters in that seruice and bewraye the spirit of Antichrist Let the record of your false sentence charging mee with a lying spirit of Antichrist with an ignorant and rayling spirit remayne with the placing of your name for mine til you haue otherwise proued that my speaches against the vncleane doctrine and rebellious practises of your Iesuites are vntrue or rayling And because so cleare places in the worde of God with the interpretation of the name and nomber of 666. agreed of by auncient fathers and founde to accorde with the Latin and Hebrewe wordes doe make Antichrist to sit at Rome in the citie buylded vpon seuen hilles if they make it to be a Latin and Romish Church let y â— record stande agaynst the Pope y t he is Antichrist and against al other his instruments for that they haue the spirite of Antichrist full of all corruption Wheras you charge me that my zeale ouerranne my witte in reporting the former doctrines as blasphemous it is to speake without proofe and to slaunder without controlement For I must agayne saye that all your ignoraunt euill zeale and al your witte knoweth not howe to denye any one of these XIII articles except you will willingly wittingly runne into a curse of the Trent Councill Therefore your bitter taunt was without cause in respect hereof as also in respect of that y t followeth about a masse booke For in my conscience I am not priuiâ— y t I did at any tune crye out or at all vtter these wordes A blaâ—phemie findyng the blessed virgin named mother of God Wherefore vntil you bring better proofe of it my religious deniall shal more then weigh downe your hateful affirmation conuince you of breaking y t nienth coÌ„mandemeÌ„t by raysing â—â—ch infamous reproches in print agaynst your neighbour eyther vpon light report of an enemie oâ— vpon your owne imagination I am not in this sort ouergreedie of your discredit to whom in that generall loue I owe to all men I wish in the Lorde the riches and honour of true godlinesse praying that you may receiue the loue of the trueth and bee blessed as I woulde bee blessed But this your cause of teaching errour and labouring to roote out the gospell must more and more bee brought into discredit eyther to drawe you to a loue of y t trueth or to make you ashamed of such lies If I did in deede any way hurt my cause you loue it not so well as to admonish mee thereof but I trust y t Lord would prouide me more faythful remeÌ„brancers For your next wordes of reproche that wee seeme to haue made a compact betweene vs euery man to lye his part howe vntrue are they and howe full of reproch To lye is a fowle sinne but to lye with consent and conspiracie that the lye may haue the more force and greater credit it is double iniquitie and furder from vs by the grace of God then from any of you If the force of trueth ouerbeare you not without Gods extraordinary iudgemeÌ„t I looke not to see you ouerborne This thirtieth leafe of your booke will afford a scantlin of your brotherly loue if any man will take the measure Notwithstanding in the ende you please mee so well that I must thanke you for your helping hande in a good woorke And although you tell the tale so that I may seeme to haue a fellowshippe in the offence yet being free I subscribe to your good a 〈…〉 tisement against imprinting lying 〈◊〉 as that from Rome For it is so great a sinne to imprint lyes and râ—â—ore for â—â—â—thy lucrâ— and euery where â—o empty mens purses and â—â—ll their heades with â—ables that for such an inquitie euery such Printer 〈…〉 ueth to carye a print of his vngod 〈…〉 couetoâ—snesse 〈◊〉 dishonour offered to 〈◊〉 so excellent and so profitable 〈◊〉 Touching the purpose of him that to perswade the allâ—wance was like to aff 〈…〉 the 〈…〉 er 〈◊〉 he were a Papiâ—â— such as is 〈◊〉 like 〈◊〉 tell what is done at Rome hee had a 〈…〉 d to sinne hi 〈…〉 of purpose that he 〈…〉 ht laye it 〈…〉 If it were 〈◊〉 you 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 woulde so 〈…〉 e y t Pope which cannot be gathered by any word in all the 〈◊〉 it was in him a greater sinne For without lying newes there is true matter â—â—ough