what meane you by them of whom where when vpon what grounds why a rambling logodiarrhe without wit or reason Edicta Principum Decreta Synodorum And iudicia pro tribunali are of large extent of different alotment For against God Equity Truth and Honesty what an idle discourse is it thus to shoote your bolts as boyes doe stones to make Duckes and Drakes vpon the surface of the water to glide smoothly for two or three grasings and then sinke to the bottome without any more adoe Adde quantity to iudgements Decrees Edicts wee shall know what you would say and so answere As for humane wisedome that helpe on our right hand haue you such cause to boast we haue no sense nor reason I thinke you doe not find vs such arrant fooles as vtterly destitute of humane indowments If you doe the better for you You may cary the cause against vs without more adoe Customes we haue many of the better sort not all your anticke fits and gesticulations You haue not all antiquity had you haue many they neuer saw Silly man know you not most customes doe and may vary keepe your owne if you please we are not so wedded to them nor to all ours but vpon reason we haue will and may change by better warrant then you can auoide As for multitude we dare drip Siders with you old and late but these are meere flashes of your Catholike vanity I haue said it often I repeate it in the close that you may remember it the better at least you shall find that is my selfe that will ioyne issue with you when you dare to maintaine the doctrine of the Church of England and oppose the doctrine of the Romish Church by all of these or any of these Antiquitie Custome Multitude humane wisedome Iudgements Decrees Edicts and Councels If I haue not for me in all or euery one as good and better share and interest for my confession theÌ„ you for yours I wil yeeld As for Miracles Visions and such hobgoblin-stuffe I am contented you appropriate to your owne So did the Gentiles brag of the like as Chrysostome obserueth Orat. 1. in Iudai santes pag. 34. Edit Hesheâ— So did the Donatists as S. Augustine reporteth de notis Ecclesiae ca. 19. Their miracles were then as yours now Figmenta mendacium hominum aut portenta fallacium spirituum 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is a prouerbiall speech in Athenaeus Fooles may be frighted with Hagges and Fairies men of vnderstanding know it is but knauery At Lauretto Sichem Annuntiada or wheresoeuer we haue the like puppet playes amongst our Catholike neighbours Cachinnantibus daemonijs at such iugling tricks for their aduantage And yet take me not so as if I cast off all miracles I admit I admire them that were true for a true end the ratificatiou of Truth vnto the soule 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 That such as would not yeeld vnto the word preached might yet be conuicted by that miraculous power saith Clemens in his Constituions This was that the world might beleeue but yet since and euer Chrysostome said true 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 One faith and beleefe is to be regulated not by miracles but by the Scripture which on good foundation we defend containes all that is Necessary for our saluation You haue done with your Reader and I with you till we meet againe at the next turne till then farewell A list of the seuerall errors imputed to the PROTESTANTS by this Gagger being so many Lyes I. THey maintaine in the first place that the Scriptures are easie to be vnderstood II. That in matters of Faith wee must not relye vpon the iudgement of the Church and of her Pastors but onely vpon the written Word III. That Apostolicall Traditions and ancient Customes of the holy Church are not to be receiued nor doe oblige vs. IIII. That the Church can erre V. That the Church hath beene hidden and inuisible VI. That it is forbidden in holy Scripture the publike seruice of the Church to be in a Tongue not vnderstood by all the Assistants VII That Saint Peter was not the first or chiefe among the Apostles and that none was greater or lesse among the twelue VIII That Saint Peters faith hath failed IX That a Woman may bee supreame Gouernesse of the Church in all causes as well Ecclesiasticall as Temporall as Queene Elizabeth was X. That Antichrist shall not be a particular man and that the Pope is Antichrist XI That none but God can forgiue or retaine sinnes XII That we must not confesse our sinnes but onely to God XIII That Pardons and Indulgences were not in vse in the Apostles times XIIII That the Actions and Passions of the Saints doe serue for nothing vnto the Church XV. That no man can doe workes of Supererâ—gation XVI That by the fall of Adam we haue all lost our free-will and that it is not in our owne power either to choose good or eâ—ill XVII That it is impossible to keepe the Commandements of GOD though assisted with his Grace and the holy Ghost XVIII That onely Faith iustifieth and that good workes are not absolutely necessary to Saluation XIX That no good workes are meritorious XX. That Faith once had cannot be lost XXI That God by his will and ineuitable decree hath ordained from all eternity who shall be damned and who saued XXII That euery man ought infallibly to assure himselfe of his saluation and to hold that hee is of the 〈◊〉 her of the praedestinate XXIII That euery one hath not his Angell keeper XXIIII That the holy Angels pray not for vs. XXV That we may not pray vnto them XXVI That the Angels cannot helpe us XXVII That no Saint departed hath afterward appeared to any vpon Earth XXVIII That Saints deceased know not what passeth in the Earth XXIX That they pray not for vs. XXX That we may not pray to them XXXI That the bones or reliques of Saints are not to be kept no vertue proceedeth from them after they be dead XXXII That Creatures cannot be sanctified or made more holy then they are already by their owne Nature XXXIII That Children may bee saued by their Parents faith without Baptisme XXXIV That imposition of hands vpon the people called by Catholikes Confirmation is not necessary nor to be vsed XXXV That the bread of the Supper is but a figure of the body of Christ not his body XXXVI That wee ought to receiue vnder both kindes and that one alone sufficeth not XXXVII That sacramentall vnction is not to bee vsed to the Sicke XXXVIII That no interior grace is giuen by the imposition of hands in the Sacrament of holy Orders XXXIX That Priests and other religious persons or any others who haue vowed their chastity vnto God may freely marry notwithstanding their vowes XL. That fasting and abstinence from meates is not grounded on holy Scripture nor causeth any spirituall good XLI That Iesus Christ descended not into hell nor deliuered thence the Soules of
the Roman Church For Saint Gregory vpon the 6. of Ezechiel said If the vnderstanding of holy scripture were playne to all men it would come in time to bee of no reckoning Where hee giueth a reason of that obscurity that is in it Who yet vpon the 6. of Iob more atfull interpreteth his owne meaning thus Sacra scriptura cibus est in locis obscurioribus quia quasi exponendo frangitur et mandendo glutitur Potus vero est in locis apertioribus quià ita sorbetur sicut invenitur The holy Scripture is Meate in the more obscure places because in the expounding thereof it is broken as it were and in chewing swallowed Drinke it is in the more perspicuous places because it is as easily swallowed downe as it is found Thus the doctrine and beliefe of the Roman Church was sometime Scripture in some places is hard in some places easie Hath that Church now forsaken her former faith if not we differ not for we maintaine the easinesse of holy Scripture no otherwise then Saint Gregory the Pope did This Goose may fit the Gagge for his Ganders mouth the Gospell will soone enough be rid of it II. That in matters of faith wee must not relye vpon the iudgement of the Church and of her Pastors but onely vpon the written Word I Know no such tenent exclusiuely I know no such Assertion negatiuely the Church of England hath no such faith as this You set vp a Shawfoule for a marke and shoot your bolt at it your selfe alone In our 11. Article put on your spectacles and see if you can reade it we professe The Church hath authority in controuersies of Faith The written word of God is the Rule of Faith with vs. And hath beene so with all our Fathers of old Vnto the Law and vnto the Prophets was a direction of a perpetuall Morallity and is continued in that of our Sauiour Ioh. 5. Search the Scriptures for in them you hope to haue eternall life A rule absolute in it selfe a rule most sufficient vnto vs for that end entended To make the man of God perfect in euery good worke Sufficiunt sanctae et diuinitus inspiratae scripturae saith Athanasius ad omnem institutionem veritatis Truth is of two sorts amongst men manifest and confessed truth or more obscure and inuolued truth In his quae aperte posita sunt in scripturis inveniâ—ntur illa omnia quae continent fidem moresque viuendi spem scilicet charitatem Plainely deliuered in Scripture are all those poynts which belong vnto Faith and manners Hope and Charity to wit And accordingly I doe know no obscurity vpon these I know none of these controuerted inter partes the Articles of our Creede are confessed on both sides and held plaine enough The controuerted poynts are of a larger and an inferiour alloy of them a man may be ignorant without any danger of his soule at all A man may resolue or oppose this way or that way without perill of perishing for euer Now if a question be moued iuris controuersi in controuerted matters who shall decide and settle the doubt you say The Church and so say I nay so say we You say wee say the Scriptures but without the Church that is each priuate mans opinion and interpretation of the Scriptures euen against the Church No such thing Sir you mistake vs. We say the Church must doe it explaining declaring resoluing the Scriptures as the direction is from God himselfe to purpose Deut. 17. 8. and as your Texts and Fathers doe pretend it and no otherwise And yet the Scripture may well be called iudge As the Law determineth Controuersies betwixt man and man In plaine cases iuris positiui no deciding Iudge or legall proceeding shall neede But such as are iuris ambigui controuersi must be determined by the Court by the Iudge according vnto Law So is it in Scripture according to the Protestants opinion In points of Faith they disclaime not the iudgement of the Church nor yet appeale to Scripture alone vnderstood by themselues without a iudge but referre it vnto the Church And they haue reason for it enough seeing Gods Word and the ancient practise of the Catholike Church that is both Law and Iudge are both for them In the name of the Church of England I will be tried thereby and maintaine it against all Papists liuing Take one for all Cyril of Hierusalem in his fourth Catechisme saith 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 In any poynt concerning the diuine and holy mysteries of our Faith not any the least thing must be tendred without warrant of diuine Scripture And he addeth Belieue mee not that speake and deliuer these things vnto you vnlesse for proofe of them I doe bring plaine and euident demonstration out of diuine Writ Was this man a Protestant or a Papist Those Bibles he had then which we haue now and it seemeth that addressing his owne beliefe and doctrine accordingly varied not in iudgement any whit from vs who make Scripture the rule of our beliefe And in doubtfull poynts that require determination appeale vnto the Catholique Church for iudgement in that Rule This is not contrary to any deduction from much lesse to the expresse words of our owne Bible Matt. 23. 2. The Scribes Pharises sit in Moses Chaire all therfore whatsoeuer they bid you obserue that obserue and doe Therefore c. Doe you finde eyther Faith or Iudgement Pastors or Church expresly named in this text Looke once more and looke back vpon your vndertaking Their refutation by expresse words of their owne bible For words expresse you faile vndertaking more than you can performe an ordinary tricke of Catholike Braggadochioes Let vs see if Consequents will hold the tewghing any better Those that answere the Church and her Pastors in your Thesis are the Scribes Pharises in your proofe who whole and some head and taile be Doctors and Pastors of the Church with you But of the Church of Rome it must be supposed for wee disclaime any Conformation at all with them And doe you suppose that our Sauiour approued them so well as that hee would haue had the Iewes in matters of Faith to relye vpon them and their decisions as Pastors of the Church in points of Faith If this were his meaning what meant he then to giue warning elsewhere Take heede of the leauen of the Pharises that is as the holy Ghost expoundeth it Of their doctrine If the question had bin put Art thou the Christ would he haue sent them vnto the Scribes or Pharises for resolution or aduised the people to belieue on them we finde it not practised the contrary we doe What then is this text in consequence vnto the poynt Surely hee meant no more but this and in that hee will declare himselfe a Protestant Whatsoeuer they bid you obserue out of Moses obserue that is so long as they teach but Scripture they must he heard if there they faile
then heare them not Verba legis proferendo in the opinion of Saint Augustine so long as they speake Law This is not our Heresie but Catholique Doctrine De legis ac Mosis doctrinâ loquitur perindè enim est acsi dicat Omnia quae Lex Moyses vobis dixerint Scribis Pharisaeis recitantibus seruate saith Maldonate no friend nor fauourer of Protestants And after him Barradas another Iesuite in this resolution a very Protestant Hoc est saith he omnia quae legi Dei mandatis non repugnāt Ergo bound in the text with this restriction as you must and it is a plaine Gagge to the Gospel Luke 10. 16. He that heareth you heareth me and he that despiseth you despiseth me and hee that despiseth me despiseth him that sent me Therfore c. You know not what you say All this we constantly beleeue But first I answere this is a text indeede to purpose to vindicate authority to the Church and her Pastors but not expressely which is your vndertaking by necessary consequence and indenied it is but you haue tied your selfe foole as you were vnto expresse words and expresse words are not here extant Secondly perhaps it is not so pat as you imagine because the men intended there and then were of another making fashion and account than euer were any since or before and therefore their priuiledges more peculiar of greater extent insomuch as that all were not to be heard so respectiuely as they were they without Scripture or allegation of Scripture hauing mission immediate from the Sonne himselfe which none euer had but they But thirdly I answere take it with Saint Cyprian Epist 96. and others in a larger extent ad omnes praepositos qui Apostolis vicariâ ordinatione succedunt vnto the Gouernours in the Church who succeede the Apostles in the Churches gouernement by imposition of hands and ordination and goe and answere your selfe out of Saint Bernard thus Be the commandement tendred by God or man as Gods agent it is to be receiued with like reuerence Vbi tamen Deo contraria non praecipit homo As farre as man doth not gain-say the will and commandement of the most high A flat Protestant in his assertion and vpon reason For a Nuntio must goe to his Commission Matth. 16. 19. I will giue vnto thee the Keyes of the Kingdome of Heauen and whatsoeuer thou shalt binde on earth shall be bound in Heauen whatsoeuer thou shalt loose in earth shall be loosed in heauen Which text hath no such mention of relying vpon Church or Pastors in matters of faith expressed Nor hitherto perhaps any such meaning Your Compeeres were wont to cry vs downe with this text For Saint Peters iurisdiction ouer all and the Popes vniuersall power in claue potestatis You now waue that power it seemeth and cast aside that key and lay hold vpon that other key of knowledge Shall wee belieue your Puniship or them This cannot be good Catholique vnitie in so fundamentall a poynt of your Faith except for neere alliance betwixt Saint Peter and his Spouse the Church whatsouer is remembred of the one must be likewise true of the other But out with your Table-bookes you that haue them amongst you and Note the man will giue you something worth the noting that is our Sauiour doth not say whomsoeuer but whatsoeuer We take it and note it and meane to make good vse of it inferring thereupon through your owne confession that therefore St. Peter by Christs commission must in case of binding and loosing and executing the power of the Keyes which whether it be all one with binding and losing you are not agreed amongst your selues let whomsoeuer alone for euer and betake himselfe vnto whatsoeuer that is not meddle any more with Kings and Princes with cantoning of their Kingdomes and estates but content himselfe with whatsoeuer matters of fact inferiour matters of Faith and the like decisions at least with Causes and Persons within his owne Verge indeede Causes that is knots and difficulties for Persons are none of that combination So to shake hands with your memorable obseruation Therefore in matters of faith euen by their owne Bible wee must not relye vpon the written word onely but vpon whatsoeuer Saint Peter shall tie or vntie which we in this case are contented to doe and to say with that Councell of which he was a part you say President visum est spiritui sancto nobis the decision of the Catholique Church wee receiue as the dictate of the holy Spirit but be you sure it is the iudgment of the Church for you are good Proficients in equiuocation and present vs the Church vpon no better termes then if you should tender vs a man of straw for a perfect man or a shadow for a substance Indeede to this effect that is to as little purpose as that which went before In cases of controuersies and of doubts in matters of fact or ciuill cognisance which could not be determined by ordinary course of Law in the seuerall Counties as it were or Places of iudicature the Parties plaintife and defendants were to referre it to the Leuits Priests and Iudge in these daies that is to the Church and to the Pope you dreame and let your dreame goe once for truth and they must heare it determine it definitiuely It was capitall to refuse or to appeale Good but yet this commeth not home for they must determine it according vnto Law to which supreamest decision both concurre the Rule of right and determiner of right according to that rule In our construction to our present question the iudgement of the Church according vnto Scripture the selfe-same that the Protestant maintaineth In this text I graunt more is to be seene then in all the rest viz. when the word of the Lord came vnto Agge the Prophet Which thing how it sorteth with the present position I cannot tell speake those that can But the word that then came vnto him was this in the 12. verse Aske the Priests concerning the Lawe And the Priests answered according vnto Law thus and thus And this is resoluing of a doubt by the Priests but the doubt resolued according vnto Law so the written word is relyed vpon Not I my selfe the word onely Quis enim respondet Did euer any man deny that the Church and her Pastors are not to be heard speaking out of or else according vnto Scriptures Shew this and take it else Nihil ad rhombum That of 2 Chron. 19. 8. is all one with Deuter. 17. 8. an exemplification of that rule a practice according vnto that direction there somewhat more For hereby it appeareth that the Precept was not for Tell the Church and heare her Pastors but goe take the ordinary course appointed the iudgement of a standing court mixt of Clergie and of the Laitie as it were our court of high Commission or indeede the Starre-chamber consisting of both robes
Pharises doe your Church 1 Pet. 2. 9. The Church is styled a chosen generation a royall Priesthood an holy nation a peculiar people glorious titles but nothing to this They cannot erre Iohn 17. 17. Gods word is truth I graunt But is Gods Word euer in the mouth of man The Apostles were sanctified and that in Gods truth according vnto Christs Prayer Yet after this Prayer Peter went not right when Saint Paul reproued him he fell and that foulely in denying Christ That which is sanctified is accepted not euer so sanctified as without spot As for 1 Cor. 11. 25. if the Institution or rather Commemoration of the institution of the holy Communion be a proofe sufficient that the Church cannot erre wee yeeld the cause if nothing to purpose what meant this idle pate to range it heere What the man would say in Psalm 101. 23. 20. or whether hee would send vs after mistaking there I cannot tell and till then I cannot answere For not so much as neere thereabout is ought to purpose of not erring Ephes 2. 20. Wee reade that they were built vpon the foundation of the Apostles and Prophets And what then Could they not erre Dare you say so They could for they haue and are shaken off from that foundation but so long as they stood on fast they erred not holding one Faith one Lord one Baptisme Eph. 4. 5. which if you and we doe at this day by your owne argument auoid it if you can we erre not As for one heart and one soule of the belieuers Act. 4. 32. it is in reference of loue one to another not in vnity of Doctrine all with one another And yet there were differences in that vnion for example sake inter Paul and Barnabas and might be disproportion in their Doctrine as dissimilitude in the habitude and condition of those sheepe in one sheepe-fold vnder one Shepheard and yet all heare the Shepheards voyce Iohn 10. 16. and hee that will not heare some of those Sheepe Luc. 10. 16. be taxed for not regarding the Shepheard when as yet for all that some of those Sheepe be gone astray To conclude The Church cannot erre neither collectiue nor representatiue Thus your Masters distinguish the termes of this question that goe workman-like and not like you clutteringly to worke So they so wee In the largest extent not erre at all Secondly not erre in poynts of Faith For in matters of fact they confesse errour Faith is fundamentall or accessory There none is here error may accrew Fathers to be seene you afford vs none Not because there are none but because your reading could supply none Who take vp all vpon retaile and credit hauing so small store at home The Church cannot erre is most true and the Church may erre is as true each part considered as it ought V. That the Church hath beene hidden and inuisible IT may be some priuate opinions haue runne vpon inuifibility of the Church which are no doctrinall decisions nor to be imputed vnto the resolued Doctrine of the Protestants that are of another minde Nunquam est quod nusquam videtur That which cannot be seene if it be seeable is no where at all nor in being For as Saint Augustine well said Quo modo confidimus ex diuinis liter is accepisse nos Christum manifestum si non accepimus Ecclesiam manifestam How is it possible wee should hope to haue Christ manifest in Scripture except wee haue likewise the Church manifest Therefore on all hands it is resolued the Church hath euer beene visible since there was a Church In England especially how can this fellow impute inuisibility to vs who claime and proue a succession and therefore needes a visibilitie from the time of the Apostles If any doe thinke otherwise or cannot doe this we vndertake no patronage at all of them The Church is a City seated on a Hill which is naturally visible though in a fogge or mist not discerned There euer was and will be a Church vnto whom complaints may be made though the Church doth not euer heare complaints Those that haue fell vpon an inuisibility may perhaps be tollerated if well interpreted and vnderstood For euen the visible Church in her more noble parts may be said to be inuisible First the Saints triumphant and now regnant with Christ are parts of the Church in largest extent Who being in Heauen are vnknowne their persons proprieties and indowments The Saints militant her more excellent parts on Earth according to her more royall indowments the Elect according vnto purpose of Grace are knowne onely vnto God alone the searcher of secrets and decipherer of thoughts Such as be secret occultò intus are there not visible vnto man In this sence in regard of these parts the Church is and is esteemed inuisible and so held euen of the Papists themselues Otherwise then so wee doe not speake of inuisibility So that the man must fall foule with his owne part or be at warre with his owne wits Moderate men on both sides confesse this controuersie may cease Et quamuis praesens haec Ecclesia Romana non parum in morum disciplinae integritate adde etiam in doctrinae sinceritate ab antiquâ illâ vnde orta deriuata est discesserit tamen eodem fundamento doctrinae sacramentorum à Deo institutorum firma semper constitit communionem cum antiquâ illâ indubitatâ Christi Ecclesiâ agnoscit colit Quare alia diuersa ab illâ esse non potest tametsi multis in rebus dissimulis sit Manet enim Christi Ecclesia sponsa quamuis multis erroribus vitijs sponsum suum irritauerit quamdiu à Christo suo sponso non repudietur tametsi multis fâ—agellis ab ipso castigetur As for our Gagger hee is interessed happely otherwise In standeth him in hand to vphold and foment a faction lest for insufficiency otherwise hee turne Host and sell Bottle-Ale That mustie obiection as hee calleth it of Elias may doe him some pleasure at that time I adde no more touching this proposition because it is but lost labour VI. That it is forbidden in holy Scripture the publique seruice of the Church to be in a tongue not vnderstood of all the Assistants NO doubt Contrary to our owne Bibles in such sort that if the Protestants be not gagged now their mouthes are wider than Gargantuaes and their lips somewhat like to Germans that were nine mile asunder Certes neuer so foyled by texts of Scripture since Luther went out to this day Therefore expedite tabulas Chrysippei sophi For heere you haue a singular piece of worke indeede The Church of England directed not onely by the light of Israel the Word of God but also perswaded by common sense and reason hath and hath had her Seruice the publique prayers and Liturgie of the Church in a knowne tongue vnderstood of all that are present there ordinarily This is contrary to their
and so began to compose my selfe against expected aduersaries of some performance at least But many weekes many months passed eighteene at least and I heard no noise of those Hereticke-quellers my great Masters who cease not yet to call for disputation At length after much expectation vpon the fifth of October last the same partie premised presenteth mee at once with two seuerall presents The one two sheets of Paper written in haste not fully out with two seuerall hands The Scribe was some puny-nouice in euery point of Scrib-ship For neither could hee tell how to vse or dispose his points nor yet how to spell his words I haue the Originall by mee to shew Any man that readeth it will many times be to seeke to make sense or English of it The Dictator if yet the Author and writer were diuided subscribed himselfe yours in Christ Iesus A. P. a silly man God knoweth as euer talked idly of the Catholique Church the head of the Church the Masse Confession and Purgatory For his discourse beside some â—â—urrility without wit or â—artnesse of my Worship Doctorship c. smattered a little but very poorely and at randome vpon these points but concerning or vnto my Propositions 〈◊〉 my quidem Lucilianum the Innocent meant mee no hurt therefore he bit not Marry he had a cleanly put-off for that thus Hee desireth me at my going to London to repaire vnto Master May his house these are my friend A. P. s own words in Holburne in Partridge-alley A man that I neuer knew nor saw nor heard of albus an ater I cold not tell nor happily should haue knowne in hast but by his relation From him I haue it that Hee was not long since a Minister but is now become a Catholique In good time through discontent perhaps or ambition or some such ordinarie motiue of such Turne-coates My imployment thither was for Satisfaction if yet I had beene sure thereof For I had some cause of doubt in that which followeth If hee will not satisfie you at least he will procure some body else If he will not but what if he cannot Then from Partridge-ally I might happily bee posted to Woodcocke-walke and thence flushed to Fooles-wharfe and so returne home as wise as I went out But secondly to preuent or supply the worst beside and with his two sheets of Paper my good friend A. Pe. out of Curtefie addressed vnto me for my better Edification a pretty little whip-iacke of lesse then ordinary assise in a blew iacket marked in the fore-head with A Gagge for the new Gospell whose worship vntill then was as little knowne to me de nomine as was Master Mâ—â— He was sent with this Elogium and Inuitation at least If you please to answere this little booke and so explicate all the places of Scriptures and Fathers which are cited in it it will be a good worke fit for a Doctor of Diuinity here my friend shot at rouers I am not the man for Doctor of Diuinity I am none And I doubt not but by searching out of these points you wil be of another minde as many of your coate haue beene when they went sincerely and for the loue of God and their own soules adde and somewhat else vnto their studies So hee in his missiâ—es of October vnto me Thus briefly as I could I haue related the occasion of my engagement in this gagling with the Gagger Those Papers I answered presently as I thought fit and left the answere to be returned vnto A. P. who promised to call for it within three dayes but came not within threescore as I am informed if yet he haue come for it I cannot tell The Gagge I tooke to taske vpon my returne vnto my bookes at Windsor as meere a gaggler as euer grased vpon a greene Many idle Pamphlets in this very kinde haue I seene in my dayes but a verrier idiota saw I neuer any With a strange opinion of their owne worth are these Catholicks possessed This poore silly Creature thought Himselfe somebody and his Performings no ordinary Aduenture else sure hee would not so haue proscribed his pamphlet the Gagge of the new Gospell which necessarily implyeth thus much Hee hath stopped the months of all Protestants for euer the proudest of them dare not hiscere hereafter against Himselfe or any one of his Lagg but as geese when they goe in at a barne dore or are driuen on by night a long staffe or pole being held ouer them goe without noise or reluctancy holding downe their heads so the appalled Protestants being crest-fallen and cast downe for euer must goe as this Gagger will dispose of them My friend A. P. sic mulus mulum scabit was well perswaded of this mans performance and irresistable ability when hee sent him to me to conuert me being assured I could say little to him no not so much as bough to a Goose as for Answere him it went beyond my possibility For this set the iury consider but for Conuersion no such matter I assure him his assurance hath failed here I am more confirmed then euer I was in my Protestant profession through his insufficiency Nay had I not been a Protestant he would haue made me one through his poore performing of what he had vndertooke vpon view Whatsoeuer he intended whatsoeuer he hath said was by Him and His addressed not against Iohn a Noke and Iohn a Style this man and that man of the Protestant partie not against priuate tenents and peculiar opinions For what hath the world to doe to take publique notice of them as they are singular so let them stand or fall Salus Ecclestae non vertitur in istis the Church will stand and subsist without them but hee driued directly at the Church of England that moate in the eyes of Romish Priests and Iesuites For though he set his booke to saile with generall commendations A briefe abridgement of the errors of the Protestants of our times and so may seeme to enclose our neighbours abroad yet his drift was directly against vs at home against the Doctrine and Discipline of oâ—â— Church Therfore he wrote in the English tongue alone Therefore his addresse is to The Protestants that are in England onely Therefore he talketh of our English translations and in precise words instituteth his Refutation by Expresse words of our owne English Bibles which confine his Gagge to vs alone that are of that Church for English Bibles belong to English men Strangers haue their owne in their owne Mothers tongue they vnderstand not ours which concerne them not at all Now in point of carriage against the Church of England in his Refutation of our Churches errors in gagging vp our mouthes for defence thereof for euer see the small honesty little sincerity and petty performing of this Gagler In all Churches that are or haue beene vnder heauen euen in the Chutch of Rome it selfe at this day notwithstanding the conclusions of the Councell of Trent
the Decisions and Edicts of Popes the inquisitors of Heresie and such like inhibitions to the contrary There are publique Resolutions held of all and priuate opinions maintained by some by men particular in their owne Conceits and Societies in a more generall agreement in things indifferent not de fide or if yet of a looser and lower tye and alloy As those are proposed resolued maintained tendred and commanded So the other are free and disputed and questioned not enioyned as de fide or Subscribed because Problematicall and no more If a man should collect the priuate opinions of priuate men which are differences in Schooles among Schollers nay of the Master of Controuersies or of sentences and impute them vnto the Church of Rome the Faith of Rome this Gagger if hee know what to doe and his gagle would refuse them disclaime them thinke themselues wronged proclaime themselues belied as Bellarmine doth often in the like case Ex aequo bono and more maiorum we may doe the like Yet see the honesty of this Imposter against vs in this his poore pamphlet He hath collected together out of C. W. B. and such companions and disposed as it hapned without order or method xlvii seuerall propositions All pretended errours of the Church of England because all contrary to expresse words of our owne Bibles and repugnant to Antiquity in the Writings of the Fathers so to fasten Noueltie and Heresie and Impietie vpon our Church Of these xlvii onely viii or ix are the Doctrines of our Church 6. 13. 15. 18. 30. 36. 42. 44. and yet not all these as they are by him abused embeasted confounded and circumscribed The rest are partly left at libertie by the Church not determined for doctrines either way Many imposed by him on the Church are directly disclaimed abandoned oppugned by the Church and the flat contrary to them commended and commanded And accordingly belieued practised and maintained against oppugners A maior part are the meere opinions priuate fancies peculiar propositions of priuate men many of them disclaimed by the very Authors some falsely imputed to their Authors some raked together out of the lay-stals of deepest Puritanisme as much opposing the Church of England as the Church of Rome So that whatsoeuer is in this Gagger is or childishly fancied or ridiculously mistaken or wilfully peruerted or slanderously imputed or maliciously proposed or ambiguously conceiued or not iustified any way as may euidently appeare in the particulars in my answere ensuing In which Whatsoeuer is to be owned by the Church as resolued and tendred and subscribed in the authorised Doctrine or Practise thereof is by mee iustified fully against him and shall be maintained against his betters as not contrary to Antiquitie in the Tradition of the Church much lesse vnto Scriptures in our owne Bibles What is inuolued by him malitiously to procure enuy to the side is explicated and asserted to the proper tenents and termes it is shewed how farre the Church of England resolueth where and what things are left free and vndetermined for men to hold with them or against them Priuate opinions are left vnto their Authors and Abettors olde enough and able enough to speake for themselues In a publique cause as is the Faith of Gods Church peculiar interests that I know haue no such share at least ouer-awing as to commaund vndertaking against opponents In answering of whom to come vnto my course obserued with him which I thought fit in conueniency to let the Reader vnderstand for my owne excuse and iustification I haue gone along with him cap apee and point per point first for his Scriptures both expresse and to be seene then for his Fathers that affirme the same that is nothing to purpose as little as his Scriptures did as I could finde them quoted or could guesse at them by imagining where they mought be probably spoken withall or where I could remember to haue some time left them For our Catholiques Romish secure no question of the goodnes of their cause or rather relying vpon the tractablenesse of their patient Proselytes so they can make a dumbe shew with scoring vp Fathers doe not much trouble themselues with caring where or what they say So this Gagger stood affected it is more than apparant For I was often left to goe blowe the seeke for his Fathers For poore man he tooke them vp as hee could finde them by tale without weight or triall Some few peraduenture in the country abroad but the maior part by farre out of C. W. B. What he is I cannot tell and as hee hath them truely or falsly quoted rightly registred or mistaken so in euery poynt are they in the Gagge vnlesse worse Such supine negligence secure discoursing childish disputing in such a Master in Israel Such infant-like performance in such a Goliah vpon whose head the Philistines haue set vp their rest I speake no more in effect than I haue heard of him since I vndertooke him who can beare Beside the scurrilous fellow according to his breeding and education it seemeth sure I am fitting enough his disposition commeth in with Coblers and Bakers and Tinkers and Tapsters and Hosts and Hostesses and bottles and bottle-ale Insulteth vpon poore Protestants Out of their wits sicke in their wits Prateth of Horses and Asses praying and such like stuffe out of his Coblersshop or Hostesses ale-bench no doubt And who is able to possesse his Soule or containe his pen in patience that hath to doe with such Impostors Mountebankes and Buffones such rake-shames and rakehels as these ramblers are I confesse that subiects of this nature should aboue all be moderately calmely and quietly handled but so if wee meete with moderate men with quiet men with temperate honest and discreet men with men not proiected prostituted and giuen ouer vnto lying calumniating traducing of all that concurre not with them as this companion and his comerades are who haue no intent to make vp any ruines or decayed places in the Church to heale the sores cure the wounds mollifie the swellings cleanse out the empostumations in the mysticall body of Christ that ayme not at peace nor would procure vnity nor any way indeauour that those who professe Gods holy name may agree in the truth of his holy word and liue in vnity and godly loue but make their 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 their whole indeauour their speciall study day and night by all kinde of iniquity to keepe a faction on foot and maintaine opposition euen where it needeth not Such are to be curryed in their kinde and to be rubbed as they deserue in no case to be smoothed or sleeked ouer lest they please themselues too well in their impiety It was euer held lawfull to call a spade a spade Saint Paul gaue not Elimas any gentle termes nor did Saint Peter speake butter and hony vnto Simon Magus Our Sauiour himselfe that man of meekenesse called Herod a Fox and Iudas a Deuil when they deserued it
of Scripture or thereabout It seemeth strange vnto me that not one of these should fall foule vpon that infinite number of corruptions and falsifications which you talke so freely and loudly of vnto your Catholike Reader Had there beene any such thing to be discouered your charity wee know is no way so Transcendent as to conceale it wee should haue heard thereof on both eares to a purpose He can doe little that can not belye his aduersary in grosse though put him to proofe and he prooueth recreant Do this I challenge your Gagship if you can or dare or prooue your selfe a Gagler and a Goose for euer For variety of reading deprauation corruption falsification here I offer to charge and prooue your most Sacrosanct Authenticall edition of Trent in the best and most corrected copy you can choose is as guilty of at and euery one of these particulars as you or your betters can proue our Bibles to be When you will or when you dare vndertaken it shall be And this in my mind is but a cold comfort vnto a Catholike who opineth poore deceiued soule that hee may be secure and build his saluation vpon the facing impudency of euery light-skirt mountebanck and shaued emposter You do well to seale vp the truth and vprightnesse of this forlorne cause of yours with security and assurance that is to captiuate their vnderstanding with implicite faith For you know and I can make it good that let the Truth you talke of come to scanning Lucians true History will be as warrantable It is true I deny not our translations all and singular and so your owne done by your owne men differ both amongst themselues as also from the Authenticall Latin as you call it notoriously your Authenticall Latin differeth from it selfe Is this to the disparagement darkning and obscuring of the Catholike verity Looke you to that I can rid my hands of it well enough and cleere both our Church aâ—d Bibles of all such imputation or impeachment of Catholike verity any way If it bring such disparagement the reason is in my conceit you swarued euen from the Councell of Trent which neuer intended such a royal prerogatiue vnto your Latin edition as the Iesuits and Iesuited faction giue vnto it I speake not this to disparage it I professe I respect it as much as any Translation extant and to quite your kindnesse in being content to be tryed by our Bibles I will be tryed in any point the Church of England maintaineth this day against the Church of Rome by no other but your owne Authenticall Latin Eate your words Goodman Gagger I am your aduersary I professe my selfe I will and dare offer my selfe to giue what aduantage you can make thereof to be tryed by your owne Translation and to deserue your loue the more may happily ere long Gagge your mouth in this very kind of putting you to it with your owne translation In the interim put mee to it when you please I will not waue your so Authenticall Latin in maintaining the assertions of our Church And so much for your second point of aduice vnto your Reader Thirdly you aduise him somewhat farther off for generall affronting the Protestant in any point whatsoeuer as I can conceiue it in briefe thus The manner of the Protestant is in conference of controuerted points when he is vrged with text of Scripture plaine and euidens to beate backe the argument or as you phrase the thing to Counterpoint it with some other text of Scripture For instance when you bring those euident few words This is my body they vse to rebutt it with Iohn 6. 63. The flesh profiteth nothing the words that I speake vnto you they are spirit and they are life and by this allegation suppose they haue put by the point of your weapon or giuen you a great ouerthrow as you speake In such a case your aduice is to shew the party amiably that this is not to proceede by order and that he dealeth not with thee as he ought nor sincerely in opposing a passage darke and obscure to confound a passage that is most cleere A man may take good counsell of his enemy though against his will and so haue no cause to thanke him for it Sir Gagger of your selfe and your owne gagle this aduice we meane to make vse of and put it home to your selues as we haue occasion frequent enough I know no men guilty of this blameable carriage at least so guilty as your selues be I haue rubbed your memory with it sometime as it fell out But here hauing so iust cause you can not blame me if I gagge you with your owne gagge Misticall passages are not argumentatiue What so mysticall as the Reuelation In which are tot Sacramenta as many darke passages as there by words And yet we want not proofes of plainer particulars from mysticall signing in the forehead The number of the beast Power giuen to the Saints ouer nations What more absurd then to prooue ordinary oeconomy in Gods disposition by extraordinary dispensation This you haue done out of Math. 17. 3. Math. 27. 52. or points of faith as you would haue them out of a dreame 2 Mac. 15. 12. Prayer vnto Saints is defined in your Creed Your proofes for that against euident scripture Psal 51. 15. are Luk. 16. 24. Iob 5. 1. Without Purgatory Popery cannot stand The 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 two pillars of Purgatory are those two places of S. Paul 1 Cor. 3. 13. 1 Cor. 5. 29. then which there are not two more obscure places in all the scripture Adde to them a third though of a baser alloy that intricate and depraued place of 2. Mach. 12. 44. I could goe further and gagge you Doper out of your owne practise Who if you had not so much honesty as to forbeare belying of your opposites should haue had so much discretion as not to obiect that vnto another which had you that good signe of a bad cause in you Blushing might ashame you being by recrimination retorted vpon your selfe I say belye for it is not better nor worse but euen so For Transubstantiation that monster of monsters you haue neuer done with This is my body Which we deny not either in words or sense The very body of Christ really receiued in the Sacrament of the Altar is warranted by those formall words of Institution This is my body but not per modum Con or Trans or any other like It is not said This is my body corporally eaten orally there carnally conceiued of grossely This cannot be say the Protestants and for proofe thereof that the thing being granted the manner cannot be so conceiued proceedeth thus That which one Scripture proposeth cannot bee contraried by another But this carnall sense of those words This is my body is contraried by another an instance In Iohn 6. 63. The flesh profiteth nothing as plaine a text against carnall eating of Christs flesh as can
their peace for euer This you nor can nor do deny To this day you put it in practise For according to such directions from higher powers The Bibliotheca Saint Patrum was last yeare printed at Cullen Shamelesse Mountebancks that obiect that to others whereof themselues are notoriously guilty But it seemeth this man did as the tale is a wench once gaue her mother counsell to doe A brace of neighbours women by sex scolds by profession falling out after they had passed some ordinary language saith a daughter of one of them to her mother Oh Mother call her where first least she call you so and prooue it Haue you heard of this good counsell I am sure ye follow it to an heire It is your profession to adde diminish alter change to aequiuocate your selues and teach your Authours so to doe notoriously For feare wee should iustly lay it to your charge you preuent vs and cast it in our teeth But play the honest man once in your dayes name where when how by whom this hath beene done I name your selfe guilty of this cousening trick and name for false and ridiculous interpretation the 1. of Saint Luk. 8. 9. and Leuit. 16. 17. in the sixt Proposition For adding to Math. 9 8 in the eleuenth Proposition For diminishing Phil. 2. 30. in the fourteene Proposition Tria are not omnia but enough to shame you if you be not past grace and shame In briefe your whole booke is compacted by this art For 39. of these Propositions are no doctrines of the Church of England those that are are vnfaithfully handled By ambiguity by adding to taking from peruerting of sense and meaning this little Pamphlet is meerely made Detract these particulars not so much will remaine as with a whole impression to stop one mustard pot I shall not need actum agere here I haue discouered your false play in particulars hereafter This is to imploy I â—rowe mans wilinesse if not wisedome to serue the diuell both are bad but yet better it were to employ mans wisedome in stead of the word For true wisedome is of God wheresoeuer or howsoeuer Lying is you haue heard from whom the father of lyes that graund Paedagogue in the Iesuite schooles brought you vp a good Proficient in this faculty you may sing a song of degrees there in medio chori according to your progresse from our twenty seuerall Bibles and their manifold varieties to their more Corruptions and Falsifications to darken and obscure the truth and yet those also handled sophistically and contrary to the mind of all antiquity nor only so but neuer produced without some tricke of adding diminishing or changing by interpretation that the old saying may take hold vpon the Gagger Qui semel verecundiae fines est transgressus eum grauiter oportet esse impudentem Sir know this Our profession is not such as yours is our practise answerable to our profession We protest you say and we doe so indeed that The word of God containeth all that is necessary to saluation Your sarcasticall irony shal not beate vs from it And therein we say no more then Saint Paul in that well knowne place of 2. Tim. 3. 16. 17. The whole Scripture is giuen by inspiration of God and is profitable to teach to improoue to correct and to instruct in righteousnesse that the man of God may bee absolute being made perfect vnto all good workes For to know God in Christ is life eternall Ioh. 17. 3. That is the way vnto and meanes whereby to attaine eternall life The absolute direction for that way is Ioh. 20. 31. These things are written that you might beleeue that Iesus is Christ the Sonne of God and that in beleeuing yee might haue life through his name These are moe texts then one and without adding diminishing or changing ought by interpretation as expresse as words can make them that all things necessary vnto saluation are conteyned in the Scripture Yet farther to be inforced by this reason Saluation is the end of reueiled knowledge from God If that knowledge be not sufficient God is defectiue in proportioning the meanes vnto the end intended which auouch if you can without blasphemy If man adde any thing to it as defectiue or detract from it in the materialls or alter and change it against minde and meaning we may well enquire quo warranto he doth it and condemne his presumption as enormious An Embassadour hath commission and instructions from his penne according to them he must proceede Differ hee must not vpon life nor change the state and tearmes of his direction so farre as to come short of to exceede vpon to be thwart vnto and against the maine of the busines negotiated Explane he may adde detract in words alter phrases or occurrences according as occasions are so he hold the maine and keepe close to the meaning and direct vnto the end of his negotiating still Circumstances sometime may alter much this point discretion must regulate as it may but substances altered make a maine change indeed aliud and aliud not aliter If we say it is not lawfull for men nor Angels to adde diminish or alter ought thereof we meane for the maine and substance of the Gospell we intend not such a precise obseruance as not to say Rites for ceremonies statutes for ordinances Church for congregation and such like or vice versâ And therein we say no more then Saint Paul himselfe hath said in so many words an other expresse text for another point of our false doctrine Gal. 1. 8. Though we or an Angell from heauen preach vnto you otherwise then that which we haue preached vnto you let him be accursed Otherwise so as 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 thereby to corrupt and abolish the Gospell Now this is not onely when they preach contrary and amolish the whole 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 if they alter and change some small obuious thing saith Chrysostome and his reason is The Scriptures were commended to vs by God the Lord of all Men and Angells are but seruants whose commendation is to doe his will This precise obedience hath that warrant yet further It is better to obey God then man If men stand ad oppositum to God But we are not thus perswaded of Antiquity We nor vse them so nor speake so of them We command not our followers vtterly to renounce all antiquity customes multitude humane wisedome iudgements decrees edicts or councells The Councels of Trent of Florence of Laterane are not all Councels We refuse them as factious as bastards as partiaries as hauing nothing but the names of Councels You refuse moe Councels then we doe in the foure first so highly commended by your owne Gregory you presume to prescribe you reiect and retaine what you please We accept them absolutely sans exception We may as well presse you with the Sinods of Gapp and Dort as you vs with Trent and diuers others Edicts and Decrees and Imginents
there is none So that the Holy ghost is made to speake plaine non-sense to fit a turne for a Catholique cause This may stand and yet the Protestants assersion be not infeebled He expounded vnto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himselfe For they doe not deny but that some things are hard That other cannot stand For it implieth that all things are hard So we haue obseruable a pretty niggling tricke of a false knaue a small word In left out to marre all For with In the text is for this and no more Some things in Scripture needed exposition and therefore were hard But without In though there be no Sense but what simple Proselyte attendeth to that the implication is All Scriptures need Interpretation and so are all hard which the good Catholique beleeueth not himselfe dareth not auouch yet faine would haue his nouice take it so to traduce the tenent of the Protestants that some Scriptures are open and easie Thus in the very in-steppe of his stolen pamphlet he belyeth the Protestant for his opinion abuseth the Scripture to bolster his Forgery and yet for all that fighteth onely with his owne fancy as dogges by moone-light barke at their owne shadowes To your question then inferred vpon the premises I answere first As easie to be vnderstood of the vnlearned now as of them then who were none of the Learned ones at that time and had incident impediments at that time Secondly scriptures hard then vnto them may be and are easie now without any such Interpretation For one Day teacheth another and especially in Predictions as these all were that is after easie which at first was hard If now they be not easie there is no explicite faith implicite faith must saue all Sir Gagger whosoeuer you are know that Scripture is not all of one height depth or alloy Some was hard that now is easie Some easie now and euer Some yet hard but not for euer To be vnderstood but not in the way only in visione faciei when wee shall see face to face and know God as we are knowne and some points at least explicitely not now to bee vnderstood nor yet then 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 it was a secret a mystery saith Basil of Seleucia at the beginning shall neuer cease to be a mystery In some point or other the worke of our Redemption in Christ he meaneth See more who list they shall see nothing to purpose No Scripture saith Saint Peter is of priuate motion or Interpretation as you will Ergo what All Scripture is hard Teach me this Consequence and I will thanke you for my New-Logicke This I doe see where the Scripture is hard and needeth interpretation there that Spirit which dictated it at first must direct in the vnderstanding it at last For man is permitted to expound himselfe and best can giue his owne meaning So this Text is not to proue that Scripture is hard but to proue that in Case there be a Doubt we are not to addresse vnto priuate Fancies or peculiar opinions but to the Direction of Gods Spirit and that in the Church I subscribe Math. 13. 11. 36. it is remembred that Christ taught the People in Parables Well what if he did Why a Parable is a darke kinde of speech so that there is obscurity in the Scriptures I answer No man denyeth but there is obscurity No man denieth but Parables are obscure Some not all In some things not in all Those Parables were obscure admit it that are remembred there but they are not all the Parables that are in Scripture Nor are Parables the hundreth part of Scripture and many of them are of easie vnderstanding and many are expounded where proposed and when vnderstood best remembred most beneficiall to the Hearer Luke 24. 45. Then opened hee their vnderstandings that they might vnderstand the Scripture which act of our Sauiour vnto and vpon his Disciples at that time slow of heart may rather excite vnto then detar from the Reading of the Scriptures For that which hee did to them personally he will doe vnto all mediately and doth it vnto the simplest actually of those that are interessed in him though but by a generall tye For the poorest member of the Church doth now vnderstand that which he taught them that he was the Messiah the Promised seede according vnto Prophecies and Predictions of old then hard now easie 1 Cor. 12. 8. Saint Paul speaking of diuersity of guifts saith To one is giuen by the spirit the word of wisdome to another the word of knowledge by the same spirit which words are as much against vnderstanding Scriptures hard by interpretation as Scriptures easie with interpretation For those that haue it haue it by guift immediate by God without helpe or instruction Those that haue it not by warrant of this place and goe no further cannot haue it at all because these things remembred were all of Infusion of extraordinary indowment and so singular and peculiar Againe admit it in common course yet it is rather a warrant for facility of Scripture because there are designed Expositors or if for difficulty because expositors are needfull yet this difficulty is but in some to some not vniuersall of which we must be vnderstood and of no other if wee be rightly taken Luke 18. 34. The Disciples vnderstood none of those things Doth it follow they vnderstood not any thing in the Law or Prophets which were the Scriptures of those times If you cannot read a letter in Cipher can you not read a plaine letter in Italique hand Those things beside that they were not then written and so no part of Scripture and so not to purpose were particular and personall and not performed Now they are performed now they are in Scripture now easie to be vnderstood of all without Expositors the Sufferings of our Sauiour at Ierusalem To them then they were hidden are they now to you Catholikes Doe you not know Christ suffered at Ierusalem If you doe not I grant Scripture is hard and hidden but hidden vnto those that perish onely because they will hud-winke themselues and not see Not a Lixa Calo or Agaso not a shepheard or muleter but doth or else may know this now which then was a secret not knowen vnto many many particulars not vnto the blessed Virgin her selfe such difference there is in things wrought by time so little wisdome to take things at all times alike and to conclude alike Indeed the same that is the thing in question as little as those Texts doe and to as little purpose as those texts doe Irenaeus Lib. 2. 47. Hauing insisted vpon and instanced in obscurity in Gods word in Nature he proceedeth vnto Gods word in Scripture thus Si ergo in rebus creaturae quaedam quidem eorum adiacent Deo quaedam autem in nostram venerunt scientiam quid mali est si et eorum quae in scripturis requiruntur vniuersis
Ecclesiasticall and ciuill not any thing to purpose for Church or for her Pastors propounded The last out of 2 Thessal 2. 15. was wont to passe currant for vnwritten verities now it commeth in limping for Church and Pastors resolue where it shall stand and then we will ranke it in degree and desert So I would could I tell where to finde them they walke in tenebris I cannot speake with them by cleare day-light In briefe what they affirme I professe I cannot tell I know many things which they affirme in those remembred bookes and passages but what the man here meaneth I can but guesse at so dissolute and at randome are his quotations as if to name and muster vp some Fathers were enough as I can coniecture so come I to them if I misse I must haue better information hereafter Gregorie Nazianz. in Oratione excusat saith somewhat I resolue of and to some purpose but what I certainely doe not know nor yet which Oration is by him intended For I finde not any vnder that title in Billius whom these men follow vnlesse it be one of his Apologies In the former of which two I finde somewhat that may looke that way this In Ecclesijs constituit vt alij pascantur pareant quibus videlicet id conducit ac cum sermone tum opere ad officium diriguntur alij autem ad Ecclesiae perfectionem Pastores ac magistri sunt qui virtute coniunctioneque ac apud Deum familiaritate vulgo sublimiores sunt rationem animae ad corpus aut mentis ad animam obtinentes A thing reasonable profitable and of absolute necessitie for the being of a Church to haue a distinction of Pastors and People some to teach some to be taught to leade to be led to rule to obey a thing established practised and defended in England no otherwise then was in the Primitiue Church and is in the Church of Rome at this day Vnlesse wee can see more shewed vs in Gregory Nazianzene we haue seene but little vnto any purpose yet and other thing then this I know not Tertullian next to be seene against Heretickes prescribeth the rule of Faith so doe we appealeth to the first institution of the Catholicke Church of Christ in his Apostles and to their Doctrine then taught and deliuered and so doe wee aboue all primerily thereto he descendeth vnto Succession so will we Not any prescription insisted vpon by Tertullian but I embrace it and dare appeale vnto it and stand to the award thereof Ex fide personas approbantes non ex personis fidem Is this that which he would haue with Tertul. out of Chapter 21. What Christ reuealed vnto his Apostles to be preached I will prescribe that it ought to be proued no otherwise then by testimony of those Churches which were first founded by the Apostles in their preaching partly by word of mouth and partly afterward by writing If this be the place of Tertullian meant by the Gagger then Currat a Gods name we accept the Condition and ioyne issue and come on with Tertullian as it insueth Si haec ita sunt If this be so it must needs be that all Doctrine which concordeth with those Apostolicall mother and originall Churches is true as being that selfe-same which the Churches receiued from the Apostles they from Christ Christ from God Whatsoeuer other Doctrine is beside this is false against the truth of the Apostles Christ and God Thus he thus we I desire no other Iudge or better triall ioyne issue when you will or when you dare I accept the Condition for any point controuerted betwixt the Church of England and Rome at this day for 500. yeeres after Christ at least Discipulus magistrum Cyprian commeth next to be seene in his 55. Epistle or as your Authors suggest it Lib. 1. Epist 3. In which Epistle I cou'd pitch vpon places moe then one that happily you may entend for they looke this way but that which is purposed I suppose is this in the second sect Actum est de Episcopatus vigore de Ecclesiae gubernandae sublimi ac divinâ potestate The rather because the Texts of Scripture here cited are by Pamelius the Roman Scholiast there applyed though to no purpose For it is the receiued Doctrine of the Church of England that in the office of a Bishop there should be that vigor as he calleth it and that the Calling it selfe is Diuine and an high calling Nor doth any Papist liuing more respect and approue that saying of Saint Cyprian in the same Epistle Sect. 19. then our Church of England doth Non est ad hoc deponenda Catholicae Ecclesiae dignitas c. The honor and the dignity of the Catholick Church is not to be abased so farre nor the vnspotted maiesty of the Flocke of Christ or Priestlike power and authority to be so deiected that men consisting out of the Church should dare professe they will passe censure vpon a Bishop of the Church That Heretickes should presume to censure Christians wounded men iudge the sound lapsed men those that neuer fell guilty persons iudge the Iudge Impious Sacrilegists the Priests This you approue so doe we To what end doe you will vs see Saint Cyprian Or Saint Augustine against Cresconius the Donatist if yet wee could tell where in speciall and what to see is this that which you meane Cap. 33. We vphold the truth of Scripture when we doe that which the vniversall Church commandeth recommended by authority of the Scriptures so farre as that because the Scripture cannot deceiue a man that would not willingly erre in this question obscure should goe and enquire what the Church saith of it If this be the place as in all likelihood it is we subscribe vnto it with all our hearts For in Diuinity Questions Controuersi Iuris there must bee a Iudge to determine that wee say is the Church whether part contending hath Law right that is consent of Scripture vpon his side and we professe with the same Saint August in his 118. Disputare contra id quod vniuersa Ecclesià sentit insolentissimae est insaniae A most in solent franticke foole were he that would dispute against the tenent of the vniuersall Church Sir bring vs to the triall and gagge vs if you can with this resolution of Saint Augustine belye vs not for our opinions against your knowledge But all this while wee haue seene in the Fathers what wee could finde or imagine yet wee neuer saw cleerely till the close Drinke was your arrand but draffe would you haue your plea hath beene for the Church and Pastors your intent was meerely for the Pope for so Saint Anselme Lib. de Incarnat cap. 1. written vnto Pope Vrban saith vnto him Vnto no other is more rightly referred to be corrected whatsoeuer ariseth in the Church against the Catholicke Faith What is this saying of S. Anselme vnto vs in matters of faith
wee must relye vpon the iudgement of the Church and her Pastors There be moe Pastors in the Church then the Pope though he be granted first he is not all There be moe Churches then his Church what hath Pope Vrban one man to doe with Pastors with the Church but that which wee know well enough by Pastors and Church in conclusion you meane the Pope I could interpret Saint Anselme well enough as that if a Controuersie were referred by the Church or an Heresie to be corrected in the Church which touched the case of the Catholicke Church it could not be put ouer more fitly to any one man by the Church representatiue in a Councel then vnto the Pope first Bishop of Christendome of greatest not absolute power amongst Bishops But I know your Saint Anselme well enough This was not his meaning he was partiall post natus not fit to speake in this cause nor amongst the Fathers A great Bishop I grant him He was Archbishop of Canterbury no great Doctor but respectiuely considering the barbarous times in which hee liued farre from being one of the ancient Fathers or their grand-child He liued in the dayes of King Henry the first and was a factionist for Pope Vrban his good Lord and Master So aske my fellow if I be a thiefe your bottle-ale Hostesse where you vse it seemeth to meete in Partridge alley with your gossips is well enough acquainted with these passages and can tell you as much as Saint Anselme could if an Heretick aske her who is Supreame ale-canner on Earth shee will answer no doubt why who but his holinesse In this case I beleeue them both alike as good reason for one as for other Sure yours are no better then those Corkes with which your Hostesse vseth to stop her bottles but agree as you can you and your Hostesse we proceede to the next Proposition III. That Apostolicall traditions and ancient customes of the holy Catholique Church are not to be receiued nor doe oblige vs THis is also contrary to the expresse words of our owne Bibles How wherefore we shal see when we can In the interim thus wee draw on Traditions are of two Sorts in the writings of Antiquity as the word is ambiguous of two significations There are Traditions writteÌ„ improperly so called and there are Traditions vnwritten deliuered from hand to hand The name is sometime applyed to the one and sometime attributed to the other you meane not here Traditions written I know it no more doe we we agree to take it of vnwritten Traditions in opposition vnto Scripture as where Tertullian speaketh in his Book de coronâ militis thus Scripturam nullam invenies Traditio tibi praetenditur euictrix Scripture for this you can finde none the originall came from Tradition Traditions are considered Originally in their Authors Christ the Apostles the Church priuatemen which haue their authority more or lesse answerable to the worth of their Originals Againe they are considered materially in regard of what they treat of what they containe whereof they are of Orders Rights practices opinions in common vse and custome amongst men Traditions instituted by our Sauiour euen in points of beliefe Faith haue Diuine authority as his written word hath Traditions deriued from the Apostles haue equall authority with their Preachings and their writings I approue that processe of the Controuersor The authority of Gods Word is not because it is written but because it commeth from God Traditions of the Church haue such authority as the Church hath all binde and oblige as they were intended and as their extent is For they must be considered not onely from the Author but from the End Some were intended to be Permanent others onely to be transient for a Time onely or else for euer Some vniuersall some onely Partiall for the Catholique or else a priuate Church Such variety and difference is in Traditions which this Hudler confoundeth to deceiue his Nouice with indistinctions Now the question is not whether there be Traditions or haue beene heretofore we doe grant it in euery kinde that either there are or haue beene Traditions of Christ his Apostles the Church priuate men The question is not of what authority they are we grant their authority is from and as the Authors but the question is of their Credit and Extent First whether the pretended Traditions of Christ and his Apostles were indeed so ordained or deriued as they are pretended or rather counterseits and suppositions Proue them true vndoubted and we rise vp vnto them Secondly to what ends they were instituted whether to last and indure euer or for a time whether to supply the defects of Scripture not else sufficient for the end This we denye for it is our Position that the written Word of God without vnwritten Traditions is perfect and absolute and sufficient for the end whereto it was intended To make the man of God absolute in euery good worke Abuse not your selues nor your Proselites here slander not nor belye vs giue vs any Tradition of Christ or his Apostles giue vs good euidence for what you say goe proue it conuincingly to haue come from them by Scripture Fathers consent of Antiquity can you aske any more and we receiue it with both our armes as Gods holy Word and Institution Quae vniuersa tenet Ecclesia ab Apostolis praecepta benè traduntur quanquam scripta non reperiantur Though I finde it not vpon record in Scripture yet I receiue it as proceeding from the Apostles if the vniuersall Church imbrace it said Saint Augustine and I subscribe vnto it bring vs any such Tradition so accepted so receiued so commended and you shall see wee will reuerence it as much as you or more but if you giue me copper in stead of gold pardon me if I beleeue you not nor receiue it for pay Ecclesiasticall constitutions are moe more certaine of the same authority with the Churches written Lawes which binde generally if made for generall obligation or else particularly if they haue but locall and confined limitation omni modo bind they doe vnto obedience so long in such sort so farre forth as the authors did intend till the same authority disaâ—ow them which gaue vnto them being at the first In the 34. Article to this purpose wee reade of and concerning Ecclesiasticall Traditions It is not necessary that Traditions and ceremonies be in all places one or vtterly like for that at all times they haue beene diuers and may be changed according to diuersities of Countries times and mens manners So that nothing be ordained against Gods word Your Catholique cares be they round or long cannot be offended with this position I thinke Whosoeuer through his priuate iudgement willingly and purposely doth openly breake the Traditions and ceremonies of the Church which be not repugnant vnto the word of God and be ordained and approued by common authoritie ought to be rebuked openly that others may
Traditions Act. 16. 4. this is one Act. 15. 29. To abstaine from bloud and strangled Exempt such dishes specified from such dressing haue with you to Masse to Mr. Mayes as I am inuited by Sir A. P◠peraduenture your selfe 2 Tim. 1. 13. We finde 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the forme of wholesome words in our Bibles And if this be Traditions vnwritten iudge you good Catholiques and set not so high a price vpon this arrant blunderer then whom a verier Goose neuer handled Goose-quill And so goe see if your leasure will serue Fathers that affirme somewhat not what they should The first you must see if you please is Irenaeus Lib. 3. cap. 4. for he will not trouble your seeing with Clemens Ignatius Dionysius Areopagita Polycarpus Egesippus Iustinus Martyr all elder than Irenaeus and vaunted of by his good masters and no doubt as much to poynt as Irenaeus who yet is held to be resolute and irrefrageable in that place Propter quod oportet deuitare quidem illos quae autem sunt Ecclesiae cum summâ diligentia deligere apprehendere veritatis Traditionem For which cause wee must shun and eschew them but with all possible diligence make choyce of the things belonging to the Church and lay hold vpon the Tradition of truth Which Tradition is no other thing but the rule of our faith The holy Scripture nothing vnwritten vncertaine beside much lesse against Scripture This is somewhat in your opinion but that which is the thing intended indeede is this which followeth in Irenaeus Et si quibus de aliquâ modicâ quaestione disceptatio esset nonne oporteret in antiquissimas recurrere Ecclesias in quibus Apostoli conuersati sunt ab ijs de praesenti quaestione sumere quod certum re liquidum est Thus hee questioneth I answere affirmatiuely yes No doubt we ought for resolution in poynts of doubtfull controuersie relye vpon that decision of the eldest Churches Doe we refuse this triall good Sir Gagger Where you will in what poynt you will I vndertake thus to iustifie the Church of England name you the Controuersie one or moe and maintaine the contrary if you can or dare The question is not with Irenaeus what must be Law but how the Law is to be expounded and interpreted Scripture the Law and Tradition the Interpretation that is the perpetuall praxis of the Church to expound the doubtfull texts of Scripture But Irenaeus proceedeth farther than so it will be said For What if the Apostles had left vs no writing at all Nonne oportet ordinem sequi Traditionis quam tradiderunt ijs quibus committebant Ecclesias Farther indeede but to no purpose this is vpon supposition If it had been so which is not so nor could be so Secondly it followeth not that because if God had not giuen Israei a Law it is probable hee would haue continued his former course with Abraham Isaac and the Patriarchs therefore when he had giuen them his Law they were still to looke for immediate or Angelicall Reuelations as before No more is it consequent to reason pietie or Irenaeus intent that albeit if no Scripture had beene written onely Tradition must haue beene followed therefore Scripture being written wee should as otherwise addresse our selues vnto Tradition But thirdly wee come home to poynt Shew vs any thing tendred by those Ecclesiae antiquissimae to be belieued and obserued and see if wee respect it not as well and as much as you Till you shew vs such Traditions leaue your prating idlely at randome touching worth and weight and vse and authoritie of Traditions Your Traditions tendred in these dayes are onely in name as Simon Magus was and Simon Peter the same no more of credite than hee of pietie both alike Origen is next to be seene in cap. 6. ad Roman Hee calleth Baptisme of Infants a Tradition and let it be so It is the vniuersall iudgement and most ancient practise of the Catholique Church deduced at least from Scripture if not proued in Scripture as the controuersor himselfe confesseth Be it a Tradition it is more for our aduantage than otherwise For we admit receiue defend and practise it which must needes giue the lye vnto your proposition That according to the Doctrine of the Protestants Apostolicall traditions ancient customes of the holy Church are not to be receiued nor doe oblige For the World knoweth your brazen face will blush to deny it wee receiue it practise it are obliged by it S. Damascen may stand by vnlesse you meane to make your friends with him a childe in yeares of yesterdayes birth in respect of those old Heroes of the Primitiue times Not that he saith any thing Lib. 4. cap. 17. more than an other or more effectuall and to purpose but because he is not of that desert or esteeme to be ranked with the Fathers of the Primitiue times being long post natus and a Partian many wayes for which cause I answere him not S. Chrysostome is peremptory and through for Traditions In 2. ad Thessal 2. vers 16. he saith Hence it is plaine and apparant that the Apostles deliuered not all in writing but very many things without booke Thus hee but to what end For no Protestant liuing in his right wits will deny this That the Apostles spake much more then is written And whatsoeuer they spake as Apostles in execution of their Ministery is of equall authority with that which they wrote For inke and paper conferre no authoritie or validity beyond the subiect and author of the writing Therefore the Tradition of the Apostles and of the Church is without all question of good credite and esteeme and so much wee professe Art 34. I graunt it hath displeased some which is said 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 It is Tradition which auoweth it seeke no further I see no reason why any should be so displeased therewith For if it be a Tradition of the Catholique Church and such Traditions onely hee meaneth Chrysostome saith there no more than hee may No more than Augustine and Tertullian haue said It is Tradition I goe no further No more will◠in any thing for my part I promise you that is controuerted betwixt you and vs at this day Make that appeare which you propose to haue been a Tradition of the Catholique Church and you and I shall soone agree shake hands and no more adoe Saint Basil you haue kept for the close it seemeth and for the vpshot of all and he indeed is in the place remembred very much for all Traditions vnwritten deriued to the Church from the Apostles I know some Protestants especially of preciser cut doe discredit the Author as a Counterfeit onely vpon Erasmus bare word who sauoured some discongruity which I could neuer finde of stile I am not of that or their minde Others being at a stand because of their owne priuate fancies oppose Saint Basil vnto Saint Basil For my part I beleeue
no such allegation nor will I oppose him vnto himselfe Thirdly some goe to it with downe-right reprehension that he gaue too much vnto Traditions and therein erred which censure and taxation is too surly I like not that the ancient Fathers should so be philipped off and sent away like schoole-boyes with snips that most learned religious and most iudicious Writer saith no more then is iustifiable touching Traditions For thus he The Doctrine of the Church is two wayes deliuered vnto vs First by writing then by Tradition from hand to hand both are of like value vnto piety And this is true if certainly both come from the same Author to the same intent and purpose for writing and speaking doe not vnder or ouer-value a thing In Edicts and Precepts and Proclamations from a Prince some haue his minde his words his hand-writing other his minde and words all his hand others his minde onely and no more being conceiued and penned by a Secretary of State according to directions yet are all the Acts of his Maiesty not of a Seruant or a Subiect To this Basil addeth which some mistake and therefore mislike 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 c. If wee venture or presume to taxe and reproue vnwritten Customes as not much to be respected wee may vnwittingly and vnwillingly preiudice and that in points of moment and consequence the very Gospell of Christ and bring Preaching to be but a bare name which censure I see no such cause to censure For Saint Basil saith not Take away Tradition and the Gospell is nothing as if the credit and weight and authority of the Gospell were meerely from Tradition but that the Gospell will receiue preiudice thereby Meaning that through Tradition that is the vniuersall consent of the Catholike Church wee are assured that the Gospels of Saint Marke and Saint Luke are diuine and true and that the Gospels of Saint Thomas Saint Bartholmew and others are forged though these were Apostles those but Disciples But 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to what purpose is this for Popish Traditions Is there any of them so commended vnto vs as the Gospell of Saint Luke or Saint Marke is by Tradition Saint Basil saith 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 c. that is not some things as you perfidiously relate it but of the Doctrine and Discipline heretofore and yet obserued in the Church part we haue from written instruction and part from the Tradition of the Apostles we haue receiued which hath beene transmitted vnto vs couertly Both which haue the same force vnto piety We admit this saying and professe as much let it be 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 a perpetuall practice of the Catholique Church of Christ and see what wee will say vnto it Saint Basils first instance in the point is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to signe vs with the signe of the Crosse you know wee commend it we practice it we command it we propugne it Euery Baker could haue told you so much that euer had Childe Christened in our Church Aske your acquaintance I make no doubt but you are interessed in some Bakers basket for a toste or a new loafe Bakers and Bottle-ale are so much in your mouth But leaue we you to your Bottle-ale and Baker great Saint Basil that patronizeth you suppose so much your Traditions in his Morals Reg. 12. cap. 2. giueth you this Item remember it well 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Wee ought not to follow the Procepts of men so farre as to set by the Commandement of God Hold you here and haue along with you in your Traditions as you will faile here Basil and we leaue to gang alone IIII. That the Church can erre FAst and loose Sir Iugler For why expresse you not plainly what Church you meane when you say that the Church cannot erre or in what things and how far the Church cannot erre Particular and Topicall Churches haue erred such may then and can euen in Fundamentals and so ceased to be any more Churches as those of Galathia Ephesus Philippi Colossae Thessalonica Those vnto whom Saint Iohn sent his Reuelation glorious and goodly in their time but now Cages for vncleane Birds But as touching the Catholique Church take it thus from me The Catholique title includeth two things vniuersality of Time and Place both or vniuersality of Place onely In the former acception take the Church and that Caetus euocatus which hath beene heretofore and which is now make it vp The Apostles their Disciples all their Successors are included And so the Catholique Church hath not did not cannot erre either in Factor Faith Fundamentall or lesse Fundamentall In the second acception according vnto vniuersality of Place The Catholike Church of Christ is twofold Diffusiue or Representatiue in euery part and member in euery place In some speciall parts in one place a generall Councell for the whole or all particulars that make vp the whole The Catholique Church at this day cannot erre in all her parts nor in faciendis matter of fact nor credendis points of beliefe dangerously The Church Representatiue true and lawfull neuer yet erred in Fundamentals and therefore I see no cause but to vouch shee cannot erre in Fundamentals Firmitas enim Fundamenti cui totius Ecclesiae superstruitur altitudo nullâ incumbentis sibi templi mole lassessit Soliditas enim illius fidei quae in Principe Apostolorum est laudata perpetua est Et sicut permanet quod in Christo Petrus credidit ita permanet quod in Petro Christus instituit as well saith Leo Ser. 2. de Assump sua If this be your opinion looke you Let vs see if our Bibles be expresse against this Esay 40. 21. My spirit that is vpon thee and my words which I haue put into thy mouth shall not depart out of thy mouth nor out of the mouth of thy seede nor out of the mouth of thy seeds seede saith the Lord from henceforth and for euer In which words if we did defend the Thesis as it is proposed that the Church could erre we might answer this Text doth not perplex vs. For where doe we finde Church or not erre in the Prophet it is but by illation at the most The man bragged of expresse words and can performe no more but consequence And that not necessary For may not it be said This is but a Precept not a Promise as where it was said vnto Iosua and in him vnto the Princes and Rulers of the People The volume of the Law shall not depart from them they shall meditate therein day and night This was an iniunction what they ought to doe not a promise what they should performe or at least but Temporary and Conditionall for they departed from the Law and the Law from them I◠so what assurance of not erring Thirdly Gods promises haue a Condition annexed or implyed euer to be performed by man which if he performe God is bound if hee breake God is free My words
performe what seruice in his course was determined and assigned by Lot It fell to Zachary to burne Incense as to others to offer Sacrifice Now the Temple of Ierusalem had diuers diuisions as wee haue in our Churches Isles Chauncels Reuestries These were seuered by Vayles Trauerses or Walles The first was the Sanctuary or most holy Place No People or Priest went in thither at all but onely one once a yeere and no oftner then once that one day the high Priest and no other man The second was called the holy Place the Altar of Incense stood there whereat the Priests offered Incense vnto God in their Courses as Zachary here did and nothing else neither reading the Law nor expounding of it nor teaching the People nor praying with them nor saying any deuotions for them it was no Custome or part of Seruice there A third diuision was atrium sacerdotum the body of the Church into which none came but onely Priests and they to offer Sacrifice onely The People came not so high but into a fourth Court atrium populi or mundorum in which they were praying at that present So betwixt the place in which Zachary offered Incense which was seuered by a vayle and that place in which the People prayed there was some distance what maruell if the People could not heare him But as is touched they needed not for he was not to read expound or say any part of Seruice within but onely to burne Incense and no more There were that taught them beside they did it in the place for the purpose in the Peoples Court and in that tongue which the People vnderstood So our Sauiour taught in the Synagogues and in the Temple being vnderstood and Moses was read in the same forme and Language that euery one vnderstood If it had beene added that the People were praying in Latin Greeke or in some other exoticke Language this Tale-teller had noted somewhat to purpose This which he saith and noteth iâ— as much to purpose as mother Bumly hitting a Hen in the forehead Leuit. 16. 17. And there shall be no man in the Tabernacle of the Congregation when he goeth in to make an atonement in the holy place vntill hee conuent and haue made an atonement for himselfe for his Houshold and for all the Congregation of Israel Therefore Conclude Aron must goe in alone For of Aron and his Successors is this spoken When he goeth he must goe alone Now what is this to purpose Therefore it is not forbidden in holy Scripture that the publike seruice of the Church should be in an vnknowne tongue A poke full a plummes no foote nor foote-steps of such an inference at least let vs haue it with this exception vnlesse at one time onely of the yeere for onely once what the high Priest hither But to purpose This Text is to no purpose For there must be Assistants where the Seruice is in an vnknowen tongue and here Assistants are shut out of doores It is precise There shall be no man in the Tabernacle when he goeth in If no man there no seer no hearer present then what neede we talke of tongues either vnderstood or not vnderstood Secondly the Textis to no purpose For it speaketh but of a peece of Iewish seruice and of such a peece as was performed by hands onely without lippes or tongue and then it was priuate betwixt God and the Priest Priests nor People were Agents or Assistants at it Let your morrow Massmungers when they masse it alone vse Iaponian or Mexico Language if they list and when they make priuate intercession vnto God speake in any of the Dialects that were at Babel but in the publique Seruice of the Church Piety and Practice reason and Religion require a tongue that is vnderstood of the Assistants that they may say Amen to what is spoken It is a tricke of vanity an idle flourish What shall I neede to produce authorities of Fathers when the practice of the Christian World for many hundred yeeres together is contrary vnto Protestants A very strange practice of which there is no Constat let but one Father say so and I yeeld the bucklers Inopem te copia fecit Such plenty you haue as hath made you poore If you name me one Father that thought so or wrote so I will goe with you to Masse to morrow and acknowledge Pope Vrban for absolute Monarch directly ouer all the Earth I can but laugh at your insolent and impudent folly that blush not to write What neede I produce authority of Fathers I say againe doe name me but one that squinteth that way nedum that saith it positiuely That the seruice of the Church hath beene or may be in a tongue vnknowne and haue with you to Masse next morrow VII That Saint Peter was not first or chiefe amongst the Apostles and that none was greater or lesser amongst the twelue First or chiefe how ignorantly spoken as if two words of one signification First and Chiefe are not euer of equall extent Ruben was the first but Iuda chiefe First and Chiefe in some things are not euer so in all Peter was first but Iohn chiefe in respect of Christs speciall and peculiar affection to him aboue the rest of the Apostles It is graunted Peter was first called to be an Apostle though not first to be a Disciple In rancke and reckoning wee graunt him first As in your first Text of Matth. 10. 2. No Protestant liuing will deny this nor fall so foule with their owne Bible perswade not your selfe they will doe so But this precedency will neither serue your turne nor content you Another chiefedome must be cast vpon which you collect by sequell for you haue it not expresse out of Luke 22. 32. and 26. and yet at last you fleete backe to his first-ship in place Peter is euer named first Thus you are not resolued what to haue and how can your Proselites tell in what to trust you but that you leade them hoodwinked by the nose Luke 22. 26. The words is greatest is chiefe doe euidently shew that among the twelue one was indeede ter than another and so accounted by Christ himselfe Proue that by Christ himselfe Those words insisted on doe not proue it for they may be an Irony or a Concession Admit there be greater or lesser amongst you yet hee that is greatest let him be thus or thus He that thinketh so highly of himselfe yet let him doe thus But let it be euident and graunted that one was greater than another amongst them this greatnesse yet is farre short of that transcendent greatnesse giuen to Saint Peter Let Saint Peter be the man inuested with that greatnesse yet quousque What bounds and limitation had it since the greatest greatnesse vnder Sunne is not without some circumscription It is not questioned whether Saint Peter were great whether the greatest among those great ones Wee graunt it but the controuersie is about the extent and
nature of his greatnesse Hic Rhodus hic saltus This is that you should haue expressed out of our Bibles or the Fathers In setting out his greatnesse otherwise you doe but trifle Haue it hee must first and then practise it Happely the execution will bound it out Let vs see how farre Luke 22. 32. And when thou art conuerted strengthen thy Brethren You reade you say confirme In good time reade so still Strengthen and confirme no great ods in either if it be shewed what his greatnesse was and yet strengthen is more than to confirme the Originall is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to stay and hold vp from falling to the purpose and present case of Peter who was to fall and foulely in denying Christ Strengthen or confirme must needes imply execution of greatnesse for to confirme and strengthen what is it but to practise and execute his greatnesse ouer them A poore practise and sorry greatnesse not of soueraigntie to which you driue but of superintendency at most in his Pastorall charge to plant and to water to doe no more It is true He that doth strengthen and confirme is greater than hee that is confirmed but in that act onely of confirming not in vniuersall iurisdiction I hope Your ghostly Father if you were a Potentate and at poynt to dye as his duetie is and office confirmeth you in your Faith Because hee confirmeth you and in that hee confirmeth you hee is your better will you take him for your Lord and Soueraigne therefore Paul strengthened Peter when he went not aright to the Gospel What was then become of Peters headship can your sheepes-head tell To confirme in faith requireth nor implyeth no supremacy in power No other confirmation is intended there Goe cast your Cap then at Peters Primacy from confirming his Brethren See more proofe of your folly Mark 3. 16. Where Saint Peter in the list of the Apostles is onely named first which doth not necessarily inferre hee was the chiefe but wee graunt him a chiefe a prime a first place Wee acknowledge him the greatest amongst the Apostles in many respects And what of this No more but this First you belye vs in your position Secondly you cannot claime your Popes Monarchie from any greatnesse that Saint Peter had Act. 1. 1◠not the 13. Hee speaketh first proposeth a case Will Pope Vrban be contented to doe no more will he callenge no other royalty take it vse it let him goe as farre as euer Saint Peter went as a Bishop and not as an Apostle and wee will goe along with him Therefore in conclusion your texts of Scripture are not to any purpose at all to proue Peters Primacy but you a poppet Much lesse your Fathers see them who list for I haue seene them more times than I haue fingers and toes and could neuer see any such regality in them Theophilact calleth him Prince of the Disciples and so doe I as Aristotle Prince of the Phylosophers and Virgil Prince of Poets who had no commaund for al that either ouer Poets or Phylosophers Eusebius in his Chronicle calleth Saint Peter the first Bishop of Christians Admit hee doe What then First is in respect of time of place order and authoritie Eusebius expresseth not how he meaneth first nay doth hee call him first at all in any sense In my Eusebius I finde no such matter What is in yours I cannot tell I reade but this Petrus Apostolus cum primus Antiochenam Ecclesiam fundasset Romam mittitur vbi Euangelium praedicans xxv annis eiusdem vrbis Episcopus perseuerat Where Romam mittitur is not much for his greatnesse or that principality you giue vnto him and preaching the Gospell is lesse than that Cyril of Hierusalem calleth him Prince and most excellent of the Apostles I adde the Greeke Text is more for your aduantage 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 He that standeth before and is head ouer the Apostles And againe in his xi Catech which belike you neuer read no more I guesse did you the other but tooke it vp on credit by reta 〈…〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Peter Prince as you call him of the Apostles a principall Preacher of the Church Titles of honour Quis negat of great honour I adde such as neuer was any like vnto it but honour and aduancement as it is confined so is it designed how farre whereto in what sense He stood first in ranke hee was chiefe among so was Ioab ouer 30. but not King vpon them or Lord ouer them There is an headship which will not reach that illimited power giuen to the Pope Our Lord Vice-God vpon earth Saint Chrysostome hom 55. in Math. neither calleth him Pastor nor head of the Church Some well-willer of the cause added the words In Greeke wee haue but 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 a man that was a Fisher But admit both Pastor and Caput too what is it to purpose Wee deny no titles giuen vnto him wee deny your inferences vpon those titles If you will thanke me for it I will helpe you to tenne times as many moe titles as you haue collected as transcendant as any of these and when I haue done to as large and ample giuen to Saint Paul Doe you shew mee but one place of any one Father that giueth him that power you challenge to the Pope I except not Leo nor yet Gregorie and I will subscribe viz. for vniuersalitie of iurisdiction infallibilitie of iudgement and power direct or indirect ouer Kings and Kingdomes This is your Helena First chiefe great or greatest will not content you nor satisfie ambition now in the russe Vndertake this trifle not out the time in pleading so idlely and vainely for Saint Peters prerogatiues which wee the Church of England deny not VIII That Saint Peters faith hath failed ANd yet Saint Peter denied Christ Dare you deny that Belike in your opinion and new diuinitie a man may deny Christ and his faith not fayle Turne Turke and his faith not faile onely turne Protestant and his faith faileth But wee must hold it howsoeuer for it is contrary to our owne Bible Luke 22. 3. I haue prayed for thee that thy faith faile not Your Proselites may know you are an Empostor That propose it in these words so opposite to Scripture and euent That leaue it so suspence without distinction Saint Peters faith fayled after this very prayer and assurance and yet Christ obtained what hee did pray for God heard him euer how can you reconcile this Your Masters consider Saint Peter two wayes euen in this prayer made by our Sauiour for him as a priuate man as a publique person or as they loue to speake Head of the Church As a priuate person Christ did pray for him that though his faith fell totally for a time it yet might not faile eternally and for euer as Iudas failed and fell and hee was heard in that he prayed for Peter denied but repented hee
are old enough the Church is not tyed nor any man that I know to make good their priuate imaginations Nor can or ought the seuerall fancies of men to be imputed vnto the authorized and approued Doctrine of the Church A fault more then ordinary with you Papists to charge the Church of England with euery priuate opinion that any man holdeth in our Church though he be singular and alone For my selfe I professe ingenuously I am not of opinion that the Bishop of Rome personally is that Antichrist that Vrban the VIII or Gregory the XV or Paul the V. were Antichrist though Pauls name Borghesie before he was Pope written in Greek St Iohns Language doth make 666. the number of the Beast Nor yet that the Bishops of Rome Successiuely are that Antichrist so spoken of An Antichrist I hold him or them carrying themselues as they doe in the Church either as the word hath hitherto beene taken for one that is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 against Christ or according to the new tricke and deuice of some for 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in stead or place of Christ Rather in this point I should encline vnto that opinion of many Protestant Diuines that for the State Antichristian the Turke and Pope together may seeme to make it and for the Person some one notorious varlet aboue the rest Thus Zanchius and others so Melanthon Draconites vpon Daniel Oecolampadius vpon the same Hiperius vpon the second Epistle to the Thessalonians Zanchius in Miscellan Lambert in Apocal. Zegedynus in Locis Grynaeus in praefat Eiusdem Libri and a Disputation at Geneua 1589. vnder Faius I say rather this way then the other though for full resolution I cannot resolue for either but professe my ignorance in such mysteries and therefore as is fitting 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and craue pardon But had I no greater cause to refraine from concluding then your wise worshipfull reasons Sir Gagger I should conclude as peremptorily as any Papa est ipsissimus Antichristus Your Texts are not expresse they are not euictiue nor conuincing 2 Thes 2. 3. He is called That man of sinne the sonne of perdition Your inference is hereupon thus The words Man of sinne and sonne of Perdition being singular doe plainly proue that a succession of men as the Popes are cannot be this man of sinne For so Saint Peter also should be Antichrist for he was Pope and the very first of all the Popes So your good Gossips long since reasoned in this point but idely all and you more Though the words be singular and personall Man of sinne and Sonne of Perdition yet followeth not that the subiect is one Person they may denote a body For any Corporation though collected out of Pluralities is a totum and so but one and so singular in it selfe The Prophecies of Iacob for Iudah and his other Sonnes runneth precisely in singular and personall termes yet your selfe I thinke are not so sencelesse as to fasten them all vnto the Persons of the Patriarchs The Man of sin is personall in termes I grant but the designation may be a collectiue vnity a Corporation a Succession A sinfull man a wicked generation an impious body and an Antichristian State You haue read in the Psalmes That the man of the Earth be no more exalted against them And againe For man goeth about to deuoure me Some priuate man the Prophet meant by your reason no Company combination or society of men For The words Man and Man of the Earth being singular doe plainely proue that he could not intend any priuate man this is your reason for the Pope As for Saint Peters being then a limbe of Antichrist because he was Pope and the first of Popes I answere that he was none of Antichrists members because he was first For the Spring is good and wholsome where the streame is muddy bitter or vnwholsome the foundation good where the building is ruinous the first most regular where Succession is not Those that hold the Pope Antichrist neuer imagined all Popes to be so but the defection of Popes since the falling away either from the Faith or from the Roman Empire or rather indeede from both So that Saint Peter though Bishop of Rome and a Pope and many other succeeding him in that See cannot be included within the pale of Antichrist although it be pleaded that the Pope is Antichrist and resolued so Reuel 13. 18. The holy Spirit giueth both you and others good aduise Qui operta sacri supparo silentij irrumpere audent Let him that hath vnderstanding count the number of the Beast for it is the number of a man I cannot tell certainely what is meant by that number of a man You can it should seeme but this I can tell as I haue told you already that a man doth not euer and necessarily imply a particular and singular man For the name of Christ is as particular rather more singular than the name of man and yet your owne directors acknowledge it is attributed vnto any and all that haue any similitude or resemblance vnto him as Prophets Kings Priests And your last Text to be seene is 1 Iohn 2. 22. where hee is a lyer that denieth Iesus that denieth the Father and the Sonne is Antichrist and yet I hope no singular man necessarily Therefore the great Antichrist may not be a particular man XI That none but God can forgiue or retaine Sinnes SInnes are forgiuen two wayes by power originall and authority by deriued power and delegation God alone and none but God doth or can forgiue sinnes the first way against whom onely sinnes are committed Psalm 51. Against thee onely haue I sinned and therefore Esay 43. 25. I am hee that blotteth out iniquities for my selfe In this sence the Pharises did not erre Luke 5. Who can forgiue sinnes but God alone In this sence it is true and truely maintayned None but GOD can forgiue or retaine sinnes Verum dicunt Scribae The Scribes say true faith venerable Bede No man can forgiue sinnes but God alone And hee doth forgiue them by the ministery of those men to whom hee hath giuen power to forgiue them by actiue delegation Hee hath giuen power vnto men to doe that wee professe and maintaine The Priest hath power and authoritie from God to forgiue sinnes in as ample manner as hee can receiue it So your Fathers and Scriptures may well be spared and haue beene kept by you in store against a dearer time Your owne director Controu 9. hath these words to our aduantage and acquittall and your confusion Hereunto is also pertinent the doctrine of those Protestants who hold That Priests haue power not onely to pronounce but to giue remission of sinnes That hold most of the forenamed authors and others very many Yes it seemeth to be the doctrine of the Communion Booke in the visitation of the sicke where the Priest saith And by his authoritie committed vnto mee I absolu◠thee
required by the Communion Booke That the sicke person make a speciall Confession if hee feele his Conscience troubled with any weightie matter And likewise before the receiuing of the Lords Supper according to which doctrine and iniunction our Bishops doe or should enquire in their Visitations touching the vse and neglect of this so good an order as did that right learned and reuerend Bishop of Norwich Dr. Oueral of late A man for admirable learning and yet as strange humility in communicating his knowledge vnto any poore Scholler hardly equalled sure out-gone by none since the world had him The 21. Article enquired of in his Visitation 1619. concerning Ministers is Whether doth your Minister before the seuerall times of the administration of the Lords Supper admonish and exhort his Parishioners if they haue their Consciences troubled and disquieted to resort vnto him or some other learned Minister and open his griefe that hee may receiue such ghostly counsell and comfort as his Conscience may be relieued and by the Minister hee may receiue the benefit of Absolution to the quiet of his conscience and auoyding of scruple And if any man confesse his secret and hidden sinnes being sicke or whole to the Minister for the vnburthening of his Conscience and receyuing such spirituall consolation doth or hath the said Minister at any time reuealed and made knowne to any person whomsoeuer any crime or offence so committed to his trust contrary to the 113. Canon that hee might be punished accordingly Which is not like the iniunction of those that hold Wee must confesse our Sinnes but onely vnto God Our people happely are negligent in performing this most behoofefull vse and practice of the Church but the judgement and resolution of the Church is not auerse from it as you belye vs much lesse is it our decision We must not confesse our Sinnes but onely vnto God The words of our Bible Matth. 3. 5. 6. are expresse for confessing I graunt and for confessing of Sinnes too But not expresse for publique or priuate confessing not for confessing vnto whom to man or vnto God not whether in generall they confessed themselues sinners or descended to some particulars there more ordinary direct and enormious sinnes These are not instanced discerned nor determined Writers are diuided in opinion You know it not onely because there was confessing of Sinnes it must needes be such confession of such Sinnes as you imagined Haue you read what Maldonate that learned Iesuite hath said of such bold Bayards as your selfe Quis vnquam Catholicus tam indoctus fuit vt ex hoc loco Confessionis probaret Sacramentum Was there euer any Catholique such a blocke as would goe about to proue out of this place the Sacrament of Confession Not in his time or before peraduenture Maldonate could not prophecie nor fore-see therefore that such an vnlettered Dolt would rise vp after him I doe speake but in his Language Indoctus is as much in effect If you meant not of sacramentall Confession bucus blennus es What other Confession could you speake of If of Confession sacramental in Maldonates iudgment bardus es howsoeuer fungus fatuus es For if all those that went out vnto Iohn Baptist came to him for shrift hee had shriuing worke enough for seauen yeares I adde It is happely intended They confessed vnto God For it is not said they confessed vnto Iohn And then what is become of your Therefore sinnes may be confessed vnto man Secondly your tenet is of must be not may be They did it voluntarily once therefore often and againe Wee must necessarily doe Thirdly they did it once in all their life and that on occasion and time extraordinary at their Baptisme not againe for any thing that wee know Your Confession is penitentiall flat opposite vnto this in Baptisme You may as well inferre out of this Text reiteration of Baptisme as reiteration of Confession Baptisme in Iordan necessarily as Confession of Sinnes necessarily So many incumbrances are in the words so many Non sequiturs vnto the maine That of Act. 19. 18. I graunt is more proper and as Bellarmine obserueth in some sort it is true that the words are of speciall Confession but yet they come not home vnto Auricular Confession in priuate into the Priests eare Againe it was not of inforcement or necessitie but of voluntary motion Nor is it expressed which is most materiall whether it were made onely vnto God or also vnto man If you be put to proue it what proofe or euidence can you make for it The Text hath 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Confessing and declaring openly what they had done Before men not vnto Paul or any Priestin priuate but vnto God before men that all the Assembly might take notice of it and vnderstand it That of Numb 5. 6. is for Confession vnto at least before the Priest but is your iudgement so crased to award vs the iniunction and practice of this Iewish Ceremony for a ground of Confession Sacramentall If so your braines are rather to be purged then your error refuted If you take it but for typicall as you must and will if you vnderstand your selfe then such Propositions are not argumentatiue Nor was there here enioyned any particular enumeration of their sinnes in kind but onely of that one sinne for which the Sin-offering was brought for which an attonement was sought to be procured by the Priest Peccatum illud quod feceram is Bellarmines obseruation and so no way for the point in Controuersie Confession Auricular vnto the Priest vnlesse onely by way of equality and conueniencie as left vnto vs free and not vpon obligation as to them which helpe you not Thus we haue no great satisfaction out of Scripture Goe and see Fathers that affirme as little Irenaeus lib. 1. cap. 9. speaking of some silly women one or two seduced by Marcus a Sorcerer and Gnostique Hereticke relateth thus much that being reconciled and regained to the Catholike Church they confessed Marcus had abused them carnally which nothing promoteth their Catholique Cause vnlesse their ghostly Fathers should shriue them in secret as Marcus did They might confesse that before a temporall ludge vnto some Neighbour or friends of their owne To a Priest some Priests and yet not in aurem or if so yet not by speciall enumeration of all the circumstances or relation of their other sinnes It might be in the face of the Church in generall Irenaeus words are not confined Hae saepissimè conuersae ad Ecclesiam Dei confessae sunt secundum corpus exterminatas se ab eo velut Cupidine inflammatas valdè se illum dilexisse They confessed it often vnto many what Magicall inchantments he vsed to besot them Therefore not likely in Sacramentall Confession where hauing receiued absolution of the Priest it were but idle to confesse it againe vnlesse the man imagined the Protestants denyed and tooke away all Confession vpon any termes what neede
proposeth it resolued and de fide and I knowe no man that doubteth of it that God tempteth no man Quasi aut ignoret fidem cuiusque aut deijcere sit consentiens as out of Ignorance what hee can performe or as consenting to vndoe him But this passage there is nothing in Tertullian that I can ghesse at that we should see And Sir doth this passage come home to purpose of decree vnto life or death Or knowe you any Protestant not so perswaded No thou fore-head of brass and tongue of Say wee are fully resolued with Tertullian that Diaboli est infirmitas et malitia beeing taught by the Prophet to professe Our destruction is of our selues our saluation of the Lord. S. Cyprian they may see that think it worth their labour Lib. 4. Epist 2. or as other Editions haue it Epist 52. and there is nothing to purpose but by consequence hauing cited that saying euen now remembred Wisd 1. 13. God made not death thus he inferreth against the Nouatians rigorous men that denied repentance to lapsed Christians after Baptism Vtique qui neminem vult perire cupit peccatores poenitentiam agere et per poenitentiam denuo ad vitam redire Because he would not that any should perish his desire is that Sinners should repent and by Repentance reuert to life againe Doe Protestants deny Returne of the Lapsâ—d vnto God or Grace to Repentants after Fall If we doe this testimony may gagge our mouthes if not as we do not then gaggeth it your owne mouth Sir Goose Saint Ambrose will not nor Saint Augustine nor any else whose brains are his owne as yours are not God fore-sawe it in Adam and in Iudas but Prescience inferreth not Predestination For not because foreseene therefore effected but because effected therefore foreseene The Treason of Iudas the Fall of Adam God fore-sawe and suffred this is certaine God was Author of neyther Positiuely That Good which they had they had from God this Woe and Vnhappinesse came from themselues Priuate opinions we vndertake not you should not in discretion much lesse in honesty impute it vnto vs. Your ayme is against the Church of England Quarrell that if you can vndertake against it if you dare For what my word is past I will make it good against all your Bandogges of Belzebub whatsoeuer That Church maintaineth nothing against the Faith of the antient Church of Christ resolued on for 500 yeeres XXII That euery one ought infallibly to assure himselfe of his saluation and to hold that he is of the number of the Predestinate NOw you ramble indeed your penne runs too fast your malice sent your wit I suppose on wooll-gathering Where finde you this conclusion in the Church of England where in any mans mouth or writings in the Church of England that Euery one ought so to assure himselfe Hee that saith Euery one excepteth none not genera singulorum any kinde of men not singulos generum no particular man Be you well in your wits to bely your selfe in belying of vs and so soone to forget what you said but now For those that maintaine as you say the Protestants doe that some are damned and some are saued by an ineuitable decree cannot bee of opinion except their braines were made like yours of the pap of an apple that Euery one ought infallibly to assure himselfe of his saluation which implieth a contradiction vnto that other Tenet So that in one of these two auoyd it if you can you haue belyed your selfe to bely vs. And bely vs you do For where do you find it thus concluded by the Church of England Answere on your Honesty if you can nay bely them you doe that come somewhat to your purpose whose priuate opinions you make publique decisions of Faith Bellarmine your grand Dictator of controuersies from whose tables you or your Informers haue swept together all these scrappes and fragments in your bare abbridgement proposeth the assertion honestly and truly in restrained tearms of Verè fidelis and Iustificatus That not Euery one but Euery true beleeuer ought so to be assured that no man is or can bee so assured but the man that is iustified before God And that is not euery one as you bely them They teach not that euery man is iustified This opinion is an inference vpon that former of Necessity of Election vnto life and therefore those Protestants who make not the former an Article of their Creed build vpon no such infallibility vnto themselues nor prescribe it to be beleeued of others And those that so doe are not peraduenture so forlorne as such a simple man as you may imagine hauing Papists of reckoning to beare them company and Fathers Reasons and Scriptures therefore Ambrose Catharine was no Baby as great a Stickler as any in the Councell of Trent in his owne opinion superior to most in all mens iudgement inferior to none who for ought I knowe went as farre as any in particular and ordinary assurance of saluation Before In After the Councell of Trent against Dominicus a Soto that maintained the contrary Silly man as you are you can play in ambiguities and talk at randome freely when no man is neere to oppose or contradict you Your Masters can teach you that Assurance is twofold in this discourse In respect of the Obiect knowne belieued in regard of the Subject beleeuing knowing As man relieth vpon his Euidence or as is his Euidence to rely vpon Euidence is diuine or humane from God or Man Euidence diuine if apprehended is euer certaine and infallible both for the necessity of our object God in whom is nor change nor shadow of change as also for the manner of determining the Euidence whereby that is certaine and necessary for effect which is but contingent otherwise in it selfe Euidence most cleere assurance most certaine in it selfe is contingent vncertaine as we may both vse it or dispose it that are heere and there of and on because man is irresolute in his waies and vnconstant in his works God is to vs as wee are to him knowne as farre as wee can reach to apprehend him Thus then for those men that assert infallibility of assurance Their meaning may bee for ought you know I am sure for ought you haue said to the contrary that in regard of God faithfull and true in respect of his promises Yea and Amen euery Childe of God renued by Grace may and ought infallibly assure himselfe of his owne Saluation procured in Christ who yet in regard of his owne Infirmity and Inconstancy cannot chuse but wauer in his assurance and feare the worst though he hope the best This was Austens resolution if Bellarmine say right Ex promissione Christi potest vnusquisque vt S. Augustinus rectè docet colligere se transusse à morte ad vitam et in iudicium non ventre Euery man may collect thus out of the promise of Christ but with what assurance the question is thereto
vertitur in istis the Church may subsist and prosper without any such determined resolution But seeing we beleeue and professe it too his lips would bee gagged and his idle brains garbled at the least for charging vs with such an vntroth What is so contrary can you tell to the expresse words of our owne Bible Not well 〈◊〉 wis Yes thâ—â— they had not their Angell-keeper For Mat. 18. 10. wee read the contrary not to that which wee deny for we deny it not If wee should deny it yet this Text thus cited would not conuince vs for do you finde Angelus cusâ—â—s Keeper or Guardian there Put on your considering Cap some what closer to your Cocks-comb Angell I finde and their Angels I finde In Heauen their Angels alway behold the face of my Father which is in Heauen but Angels and Angell-keeper are two seuerall words importing seueral offices in those heauenly Subsistences as I conceiue it And therefore That cannot inforce This except there were no Angels but Angels-Guardians in Heauen Again I finde Their Angels by appropriation but appropriation is in moe respects than one Their friends and well-willers they might well bee though not Guardians to attend them their Guardians sometime vpon speciall imploiments their Patrones assigned extraordinarily in Acts of Gods prouidence so many so diuerse especially on parties of their allotment But I take not aduantage as I might for I admit the Tenet concerning Keeping-Angels though vntowardly maintained by this poor Catholique Companion This I question the Object of Protection at randon specified in the Gag Their and They who were those They Euery one say you if you say what you should So teach your new Masters that neuer so learned it of their Fore-fathers In the now Doctrine of the Romane Schooles Euery man liuing hath his Angell-keeper Iew Gentile Turk Christian Pagan Epicure Atheist Antichrist himselfe and peraduenture diuell and all For Euery one in your opinion hath his Angell-keeper without restraint or limitation Are the words of our Bible expresse for this I cannot finde it in any of mine the contrary rather They are Little-ones who haue this Guard assigned Their Angels putteth vs back to them formerly mentioned and infisted vpon If Little ones then not Great-ones then not all and certainely not all though Great ones for these Little ones are Great indeed Great with God high in his bookes though Little in the world two wayes through contempt of others and their owne account out of Humility and Opinion Therefore now what Euery man hath his Angell-keeper No some haue and not all Therefore you are a blunderer in this Text of as little vnderstanding or lesse in that which followeth Psal 91. 11 12. The Prophet assureth thus from God Hee shall giue his Angels charge concerning thee to keepe thee in all thy waies They shall beare thee vp in their hands lest thou dash thy foote against a stone But this Text will not reach vnto euery man Simon Magus Mahomet or such like but either restrainedly vnto Christ Iesus incarnate in our flesh in all things sinne onely excepted tempted as we are and subject to infirmities and so Irenaeus Eusebius Augustine and others doe expound it as did also the diuell in his combate with Christ and then it is not to purpose for though it be granted which your Schooles dispute that Christ incarnate had his Angell-keeper a thing absurd injurious idle if not impious yet it goeth no farther but to one particular and him onely as Head of the Church and will confine this Keeperage to the Church Or it may be vnderstood more enlargedly of all those that it belongeth vnto that is Those that dwell vnder the shadow of the most High that haue made the Lord their refuge euen the most High God their habitation that is of them in the Church at least if not onely of The righteous in the Church as after Ignatius the major part of Authors haue expounded it Take it how you will this way or that it prooueth not that Euery one in generall tearmes hath his Angell-keeper but the Protestants Tenent Some haue onely and no more Saint Cyril of Alexandria is not ad oppositum he doth applie it to our Angell-keeper And let him in good time a Gods name so apply it I know no reasonable man but will embrace his application and bee glad to be assured of such a Guardian But that Our Angel Sir Gagger in your language vnto whom I pray is it applied To Iohn a Nâ—ke and Iohn a Stile with you To euery man in your Ashdod language Antichrist and All you cannot auoyd it for Antichrist with you is a singular man therefore if Euery man haue his Angell-keeper Antichrist a man must haue his auoid this if you can Now see if S. Cyril applieth this very passage as you would haue him See then how handsomely your Texts and Proposition hang together That is conceiued in these generall termes Euery man hath his Angell-keeper in opinion of your Masters for I think you cannot tell what they teach nor your self what to hold the explication is for singuligenerum Euery man liuing vpon Earth The proofes out of Scripture are restrained and speake onely for some men a Peculiar People the Righteous onely the sonnes of God at least that liue within the pale of the Church and haue interest in the Couenant of Grace Therefore though They had their Angels Guardians yet it followeth not All and Euery one hath so Go and see good Reader those places moe not Proofes for Euery mans Angell-keeper but as plaine Euidences of this fellowes witlesse allegations For first those Angels mentioned 1. Cor. 11. 10. may for ought he knoweth out of the Text be other Angels extraordinarily sent It is not said They were His or Theirs but indeterminately The Angels Therefore ought a woman to haue power vpon her head because of the Angells Secondly They may bee Angels of the Church in generall and not peculiarly of that man or this Thirdly Whosoeuer or whose-soeuer those Angels were we find them not in the Wildernes among the Tents of Cedar or at Babylon but in Sion in the Church the Chappell in the Chancell not onely spiritually in the Church of the Redeemed but materially in the place of Diuine Seruice vpon an Holiday In locosancto actione sacra So that these are no Rangers amongst the beasts of the Forrest they haue their seuerall walks in the Church-pale That Angell Acts 12. 14. is One a speciall one an Angell-keeper indeed Leiger with Saint Peter in his life but yet such an Angell as for whom Euery man is neuer theneere He enlargeth not the Guardianship vnto All but confineth it vnto Some A man in the Church a member of the Church Nay say you The Church in him prouided for him built vpon him committed to him Saint Peter's Angel that great Apostle of him speaketh Rhode it is his Angel Thus we haue seene all we are
should I that cannot tell how who can doo it my body is nourished by the ordinary meat and drink I take yet is that familiar and in vse euery day When Christ gaue it he said This is my body Saint Paul repeating the Institution saith This is my body It was neuer denied to bee his body it is affitmed still to be his body Mad Papist that imputest to poor Protestants an Idoll a Chimaera of thy owne brain that The bread is but a figure and no more of Christs body Protestants say it not they neuer said it As commonly it happeneth that all Reformations or Innouations are vpon and into extremes so some happely haue that departed long since from the Church of Rome But what is that to our Church that publiquely priuately all and som directly maintains the clean contrary Your great Aduiser C. W. B. hath said enough could he see what himself hath said or you vnderstand what hee alledgeth to stop the mouth of such Gabblers as you and he for euer in the coÌ„trary assertions of the Protestants But the diuell bred you in a Faction and brought you vp in a Faction and sent you abroad to do him seruice in maintaining a Faction otherwise acknowledge there is there need bee no difference in the point of reall presence See your Fathers if I doo I shall doo more than you haue done for I auow it you neuer read Ignatius for this Read that Epistle ouer vnto the Smyrneans and see if you finde any such thing there if you doo then trust not mee again if you doo not what descrueth that impudent imposture S. Ignat. in his Epist ad Smyr But I can shew you better euidence for Bread and Wine out of Ignatius pag. 125. edit Paus Maestrei The flesh of our Lord Iesus Christ is one His Bloud one which was shed for vs also one Bread was broken for all one Cup distributed vnto all Bread and Wine after consecration Both distributed to all against your halfe Communion And againe pag. 261. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Breaking one Bread which is the medicine procuring Immortality Thus I finde nothing in Ignatius for you this I haue and happly more could against you were I desirous with you to maintaine a faction Iustin Martyrs testimony I acknowledge in the end of his Apologie and willingly make his words our owne For wee doe not receiue these things as common Bread or common Drink but euen as our Lord Sauiour Iesus Christ by the Word of God becomming flesh had flesh bloud for our sakes so are we taught that the food which was blessed by him in the Word and Prayer through which food beeing altered and changed our flesh and bloud is sustained becommeth the flesh and bloud of him that Iesus who took our flesh in his Incarnation Thus that antient Father not fully represented by your director who saith not any thing that Protestants deny For they confesse They eat the flesh of the Sonne of God and drink his bloud they are one with him and hee with them but commeth not home to the Papists Resolution that wee eate it and drink it by Transubstantiation but the contrary for but foure lines before hee calleth it Bread and Wine after Consecration Those saith hee whom wee call Deacons doe giue to euery one that is there present part of the Bread Wine and Water consecrated Saint Cyprian Serm. 5. de lapsis Now good Sir Gagger can you tell how many Sermons de lapsis Saint Cyprian wrote ignorant Asse and yet bold Bayard Saint Cyprian wrote no Sermons de lapsis hee wrote a booke de lapsis diuided into sections by some or other But Reader see the audacious Dunsery of this Ignaro C. W. B. had in his Catalogue of the Fathers of the third Age for transubstantiation cited Cyprian thus Ser. 5 de lapsis for Sect. 5. de lapsis vnlesse he also took his Authors by tale vpon trust and Ser. de coena Domini This blunderer stumbled vpon the first false or true to purpose or not all was one to him and set it downe the second quotation hee left out yet that is it which hee should haue taken for in the first Sect. 5. de lapsis there is nothing in the second Ser. decoena Domini as he will haue it though it bee no Sermon Sect. 6. there is thus The Bread which our Lord reached vnto his Disciples beeing changed not in appearance but in Nature by the omnipotency of the Word is made flesh Saint Cyprian said as much as this once or twice before No man denyeth a change an alteration a transmutation a transelementation as they speake no man otherwise beleeueth but that the naturall condition of the Bread consecrated is otherwise then it was beeing disposed and vsed to that holy vse of imparting Christ vnto the Communicants Stay heere be contented with That it is and doe not seeke nor define How it is so and we shall not contest or contend with you Hoc Sacramentum aliquando corpus suum aliquando carnem sanguinem aliquando panem Christus appellat portionem vitae aeternae cuius secundum haec visibiâ—ia corporali communicauit Naturâ— Panis iste communis in carnem et sanguinem mutatus procurat vitam et incrementum corporibus ideoque ex consueto rerum effectu fidei nostrae adiuta infirmitas sensibili argumento edocta est visibilibus sacramentis inesse vitae aeternae effectum et non tam corporali quà m spirituali transitione Christo nos vniri Thus the same Saint Cyprian so we we confesse it we beleeue it we cannot comprehend it Saint Ambrose saith no more then wee will subscribe Lib. 4. de sacramentis Before consecration it was Bread common ordinary meere Bread but after consecration it becommeth the flesh of Christ because then the Sacrament is consummate But doth Saint Ambrose tell you how it is so made That I finde not that I expect that I must finde or I finde nothing to your purpose One Father yet you adde Saint Remigius saith but you cannot tell where your Director told you it was in his comments vpon the 10. Chap. 1. ad Corinth The flesh which the Word of God took in the Virgins wombe and the Bread consecrated in the Church are the same body And yet beeing consecrated he calleth it Bread How can your Saint Remigius make that good Hee should haue said for doubtlesse hee meant so The Bread which was beeing consecrated in the Church is transubstantiated into that flesh which the Word of God took in the Virgins womb and becom the same body This Remigius saith not a great signe hee meant not And indeed hee did not meane it hee goeth no further then Reality he determineth not modum praesentiae at all And yet this Remigius is not peraduenture the man you would haue him namely Saint Remigius Archbishop of Rhemes who conuerted King Clouis of France to the Christian Faith who liued within 500
departed receiue by the assistance of the Church To admit it euident and concerning succour which soules departed receiue and that by the assistance of the Church yet first I say you go from your word no such contrariety heer as you pretend Secondly you are a poor Ignaro that think soules must needs be in Purgatory that receiue assistance from the Church It may be your poor vnderstanding will wonder at it but knowe Sir I can admit Praier for the Dead and deny your Purgatory I can giue you reasons to pray for the Dead and yet keep farre enough from your Purgatory But for that some other time At present I answer You are a silly man that call this an euident place one of the hardest in all Scripture Quid sit baptizari pro mortuis obscurum est ab Authoribus variè exponitur say your owne men which is true For till this day it is not agreed what is the meaning no man can say This is the sense and yet our Blunderer saith It is euident Doo you knowe that some take pro mortuis for the Dead that is for sinnes because men die through sinnes and the works of sin are called Dead works And so men are baptized to be deliuered from sinne These men dreamt not of Purgatory That others vse pro mortuis that is doo represent the Dead because we die to sinne in Baptism and are buried vnto corruption And not much differing hence that others take it Into the death of Christ which of these thought vpon Purgatory Again some take Baptism for affliction men afflicted vnto death what shall they doo if the dead rise not again Some referre it vnto a Iewish custome by which if a man had died polluted another was clensed and washed for him that so beeing dead hee might get aduantage by it This Iewish Fable may happely look vpon your Purgatory and much good may it doo you Yet farther Chrysostome relateth vpon this place that when any of the Catechized among the Marcionite Heretiques died a liuing body was laid vnder the Beer and the question proposed vnto the Party If he would be baptized for you knowe the Catechumeni were 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 vnbaptized The Party answered for the dead man Yes I will and so was hee baptized for him And thus they expounded Saint Paul's meaning Tertullian by dead vnderstandeth the body of man If there be no Resurrection to what end is the body baptized Epiphanius lastly and most men commonly take it for the baptizing of the Clinici as they called them Men in those times vsually deferred Baptism vntill their death and in extremis would be baptized So to be baptized for the Dead is to be baptized when men are ready to dy which they not doe but vpon hope of the Resurrection In such variety and greater than so yet saith this fellowe An euident place To come home to the assertion It is plaine and euident the Apostle speaketh not of any succour that soules departed receiued from the Suffrages of the Church which were it granted no necessity of Purgatory would ensue but of comfort that men receiued from that mayne point of our most holy faith the Resurrection of the Dead the mayne Subiect of that Chapter as euery child with vs can tell See more for wee haue seene but little hitherto 2. Tim. 1. 18. where That day is transmued into Purgatory For Saint Pauls words are The Lord grant vnto him that he may find mercy with the Lord at that day that is may bee deliuered out of Purgatory at the day of Iudgement So wheresoeuer God sheweth mercy there is Purgatory or All that finde mercy at the day of Iudgement come out of Purgatory Vnlesse this bee his meaning let him tell me what he would haue with Saint Paul here If this bee his meaning I wish him well for sure hee is in no right wits because so no man liuing can escape Purgatory by this inference For no man but findeth mercy with God before that time and then No man but needeth Gods mercy then 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 In that fearfull and terrible day when wee stand in need of great mercy indeed saith Chrysost who neuer dreamt of any Purgatory nor would haue sent Onesiphorus thither had hee fancied any such thing for euen according to your owne Doctrine his good deeds had not onely aboundantly merited for himselfe sufficiently satisfied for his Peccadilloes but his Indurances ouer and aboue layd somewhat vnto the Church-treasure And what hath Purgatory to do with such a man Esay 4. 4. the Prophet speaketh of the Spirit of burning and of Purging thus When the Lord shall wash the filthines of the daughter of Sion purge the blood of Ierusalem out of the midst thereof by the Spirit of iudgement and by the Spirit of burning then without all doubt Purgatory burneth apace the rather because Saint Augustine expoundeth it of Purgatory Lib. 20. de Ciuit. Dei Cap. 25 saith Bellar. You left vs to seeke Cap. 21 say others so your selues are to seeke I meane for any such thing in Saint Augustine For hee is belied in both places which touch not vpon Purgatory at all but manifestly designe the last Iudgement In the 21. he professes himself that his discourse was wholly therof à primo Saluatoris aduentu vsque ad vltimū Iudiciū de quo nunc agimus And more euidently Cap. 25. Videtur euidentius apparere in illo Iudicio quodam quorundā futuras Poenas purgatorias Purgatory paines are by S. Augustine put off and adiourned vnto the last Iudgement then to begin when yours end and this but in opinion not resolution Now Sir what aduantage haue you by Saint Augustine who speaketh opiningly of Purgatory but excludeth your Purgatory And to as much purpose is Saint Basil expounding the place of Esay 9. 18. of Purgatory you say The text is For wickednes burneth as a fire it deuoureth the briers and thornes and will kindle in the thick places of the Forrest and they shall mount vp like the lifting vp of smoke Basil in his exposition nameth purging fire I grant it but this purging fire is in life not after death in this world not in the world to come and God himselfe is this purging fire who abolisheth and consumeth iniquitie by Repentance being detected by confession as any man may see that will but looke vpon the place and the same Father vpon the 10. of Esay more plainely explicateth his owne meaning Pandit hic naturam ignis quia lustratiuus est et purgatorius Sanctificabit enim ipsum quasi in igne ardenti Quomodo autem sanctificat ignis Quia comesturus est syluam tanquam foenū Sanè ex quo Deus noster ignis consumens est consumet syluā et vitia quae à syluā siue materiâ promanant animae quae non degit in spiritu sed in carne Strange conceits that if any Father name purging fire hee must needs bee a
riddles Saint Hier in praefat commen in Eph. Saint Aug. Ep. 119. cap. 21. saith The things c. Saint Gregorie hom 6. in Ezech and many others confesse the same Contrary to the expresse words of their owne Bible Math. 23. 2. 2. 3. * Note here that he doth not say whosoeuer but whatsoeuer giuing vs thereby to vnderstand that not onely the bonds of sinne but as well all other knots and difficulties in matters of saith and manners are to be loosed by Saint Peter and by the Pastors that succeed him in the Church See more to this effect Deut. 17. 8. See Aggee the 2. and 11. 2 Chron. 19. 8. See Fathers which affirme the same S. Gregor Nazian in Oratione excusat Tertul. lib. de praescrip Haeret S. Cyprian Lib. 1. Epi. 3. S. Aug. lib. 1. cont Cres cap. 33. lib. cont epist Fund ca. 5. Whether now wilt thou beleeue so great a Bishop as S. Anselme or some other Host or Hostesse that sell bottle-ale Contrary to express words of their owne Bible 1. 2. 3. Thas Traditions are to be receiued see more Shall then the saying of some vnlearned Baker ouer beare great Saint Basil See Fathers that affirme the same S. Basil lib. de spirit Sanct. ca. 27. saith that some things we haue from Tradition of the Apostles both which haue force alike vnto godlinesse Some things wee haue from Scripture other things from the Apostles Traditions both which haue like force vnto godlinesse Shall then the saying of some vnlearned Baker ouer-beare great Saint Basil And consequently cannot erre See more Iohn 16. 13. Therefore it is not forbidden in holy Scripture the publike seruice of the Church to bee in a tongue not vnderstood by the Assistants Now the names of the twelue Apostles are these the first Simon which is called Peter Therefore c. And what other thing is it for Peter to confirme and strengthen his brethren than to practice and exercise his greatnesse ouer them For he that doth strengthen and confirme is greater and they who are strengthened c. are made thereby inferiors to him who doth strengthen and confirme them See more for proofe hereof c. See Fathers that affirme the same Theoph. in 22. Luk calleth Peter Prince of the Disciples Eusebius in Chron First Bishop of Christians S. Cyril of Hier. Cat. 2. Prince and most excellent of all the Apostles S. Chrys hom 55. in Mat. Pastor and Head of the Church Cont. Crescon 3. 15. Contrary to their own Bible 2 Thes 2. 3. For so Saint Peter should then be Antichrist for he was Pope and the very first of Popes Therefore the great Antichrist shall be a particular man Contrary to expresse words of their owne Bible See more Mat. 16. 19. See Fathers that affirme the same Contrary to the expresse words of your owne Bible Therefore sinnes may be confessed vnto man See the Fathers who affirme the same Tertul. lib. ad Mart. ca. 1. Pope Vrban the second graunted a plenary Indulgence to such as would goe to the Holy-Wars An. Christi 160. Hence hath the ground of Indulgences beene alwayes taken but more principally from the super abundant merit of Iesus Christ Whence it appeareth that man by assistance of Gods grace may doe some things counselled And these we call workes of supererogation See one Father for the same in stead of many I could produce See more Eccles 15. 14. Is it not then plaine wilfulnesse to denye Freewill See Fathers that affirme the same S. Iren. Lib. 4. cap. 7. Contrary to express words of their owne Bible Briefly if the Commandements were impossible they could binde no man For it is not to bee conceiued how one should sinne in a thing which hee could not possibly auoid It is not to be conceiued how one should sin in a thing which hee could not possibly auoid Lastly Saint Basill who saith it is an impious thing to say that the commandements of God are impossible See more 1 Cor. 9. c. See Fathers that affirme the same S. Ambrose de Apolog. Dauid ca. 6. S. Hier. lib. 3. cont Pelag. S. Aug. de spirit lit cap. vlt. 1. 2. 3. Contrary to the expresse words of their owne Bible See more Ose 13. 9 c. See Fathers that affirm the same S. Aug. lib. 1. ciuit Tert. de Orat cap. 8. S. Cyprian Lib. 4. Epist 2. S. Ambrose Lib. 2. de Cain et Abel will nâ—t that we refer vnto God the preuarication of Adam or treason of Iudas though hee knew the sin before it was committed Contrary to their owne Bible Therefore S. Paul himself was not assured infallibly A point of doctrine so improbable that we will not labour to ouerthrowe it by any further proof of Fathers Contrary to expresse words of their owne Bible Mat. 18. 10 Therefore they had their Angell-keeper This very passage Saint Cyril of Alexandria Lib. 4. con Iulian. applieth to our Angel-keeper See more Acts 12. 14. 1. Cor. 11. 10. Contrary to expresse words in your owne Bibles Zach. 1. 9 10 11. Now what I pray you is a praier if this be not Contrary to their owne Bible That this was spoken to a true Angell and not to Christ Basil l. 3. c. Eunomium S. Chrys ho. 7. in laud. S. Pauli and vpon 1. of Col. and S. Hier. vpon 66 of Esay Which beeing so who for shame can say He prayed not vnto him See Fathers that affirme what hath beene said touching Angels For some such my self haue met with Therefore Saints deceased haue appearea to some on earth At Saint August witnesseth Lib. de cura mortis cap. 14. Nor can any be so senslesse as to say they pray for them selues Contrary to their owne Bible If an Horse or an Asse should pray c. Where note that Theodoret paraphrasing vpon Baruch interpreteth this very place as Catholiques doo Now is the Sunne more cleare than that Saints pray for vs Iob 1. 5. 〈◊〉 S. August himself expounds this very place as Catholiques doo in his Annot. vpon Iob. If it had not been the common custome in the time of Iob to inuocate the Saints deceased it had bin friuâ—lous for Eliphas to haue asked Iob to which of the Saints he wou'd t 〈…〉 See more Contrarie to expresse words of their owne Bibles In second of Kings but is the 4 by the account of Catholiques 13. 21. S. Chrysost To. 5. cont Gentil quòd Christus sit Deus in an whole Booke proues heerby and by the like vertue of other Saints that Christ their Lord and Master is God whose seruants napkins and shadows could do such wonders Are they not therefore fooles and blind that keepe such a â—ooting at Holy-bread Hooker Poor Protestant whither now is thy figure fled See Fathers that affirm the same S. Ignat. in his Epist ad Smyr Iustin Mar. Apol. 2. ad Antoninum Now say the truth and shame the Diuell are not they sick in their wits which will oppose such plaine Scriptures Deuter. 23. 22. Psal 66. 13. Psal 19. 11. 1. Tim. Math. 5. 12. Ier. 35. 5. Therefore it is grounded c. Contrary to their owne Bibles These freed Captiues cannot bee the soules of the Saued which no man in his right wits can call Captiues nor of the damned for so the diuels should be brought again into heauen Therefore they were the soules of the Fathers which Christ deliuered out of hell Acts 2. 27. Which very words Saint August applieth to the paint of Purgatory and addeth Who but an Infidel will deny Christ to haue descended into hell Ep. 99. ad Euodium Saint Ambrose Ser. 20 in Psal 118. Saint Hierome vpon 4 of Amos Saint August vpon the 37 Psal Saint Gregory lib. 4. Dial. explicate this very place of Purgatory Heb. 9. 1. 5. Lo Saint Paul calleth the pictures of the Cherubins which Salomon made an Ordinance of diuine Seruice which Protestants call the making of Idols who now shall we beleeue whether S. Paul or a Protestant When painting and grauing of 〈◊〉 tures is so farre from beeing Idolatry that it is prooued to be a Science diuinely infused by God himself Contrary to expresse words of their owne Bible and he said Draw not nigh hither c. Lo how cleer a place is produced heer against Protestants where an insensible â—reature without reason was commanded by God himselfe to be honored Now the principal reason why the Arke was worshipped was in regard of the Images that were vpon it which as S. Ierom saith the lewes did worship in his Ep. ad Marcellan Num. 21. 8. Hence are euidently prooued diuers things against Protestants c. See Fathers that affirme the same Saint Ambrose Ser. 1. in Psal 118. Where first our Lord hauing taught his owne Disciples that excellent Prayer of all praiers which hee would haue them to offer to him the Pater noster or our Lords Praier hee afterwards in many other places willeth them to pray alwaies as Luke 18. 1. The Angels in the Prophet Esay Esay 6. and the beasts in the Apoc. Apo. 4. which rest neither dâ—y nor night do thrice repeat c.
shall not depart is Gods promise Mans promise reciprocall is I will not depart from them If I depart that is if man faile They may and shall depart God is then free Now this supposed what assurance is there for my words shall not depart c So your first Text is mistaken peraduenture in the meaning but without peraduenture in the allegation It is Esay 5â— 21. not as you tender it from your aduisers 49. 21. And lastly it is to be vnderstood of the Church of the Iewes in particular conuerted vnto Christ as it seemeth by Saint Paul Rom. 11. 26. and not of the Church of the Christians already conuerted and so you misapply as well as mistake But more ridiculously in your second Text Iohn 14. 16. For haue you read or heard that euer any Protestant maintained That the holy Ghost can erre I suppose not I beleeue you are not so much past shame to say so and yet your conclusion is so The spirit of truth cannot erre For hauing recited the Text of the Gospell your illation is Therefore the spirit of truth hath aboade for euer and shall abide for euer with the Church and consequently cannot erre What Sir cannot erre To my vnderstanding The Spirit of Truth cannot erre can you vnderstand it otherwise But let your barbarismes goe by to the point I answer first you faile and that confessedly in your vndertakings It is but consequently the Church cannot erre therefore confessed not expresly Secondly I answer out of the Text it selfe This promise is for comfort not instruction The Comforter shall abide for euer for Christ there spake of affliction which should ensue Thirdly were it punctually for direction we might reioyne It was a temporary promise a personall priuiledge to the Apostles you thought wee would say so belike supposing wee had no other shift silly men like your selfe therefore you come in with by way of preuention But the Apostles themselues could not abide for euer poore foole that knowest not there is duplex aeternum frequent in Scripture Gods euer and mans euer That for euerlasting as God is This for the terme of his being so for euer is thus no more then while you are all the dayes of your life But we seeke no aduantage we will not take it we grant Gods Spirit eternally assistant to the Catholique Church then represented in the Apostles and therefore we admit that you belye vs in your Proposition The Church can erre to be vnderstood of the Catholique Church as is expressed The third Text in order Esay 35. 8. is so farre from expressing the not erring of the Church that it is a question though such a Nouice as you know it not whether it be to be taken of the Church at all Hierome in his Comments expoundeth it of Christ who saith of himselfe Iohn 14. I am the way the truth the life An high way shall be there and a way and it shall be called the way of holinesse the vncleane shall not passe ouer it but it shall be for those The way faring men though fooles shall not erre therein Who told you that this way was the Church why not the Scripture which is also a way and called a way as to my remembrance the Church is not Ibi erit semita via mundissima quae sancta vocabitur c. There shall be a path saith Hierome and a most cleane way which shall be called Holy and which saith of himselfe I am the way by which way the polluted cannot passe where also we reade it spoken in the Psalme Blessed are the vndefiled in the way And this way that is our God shall be vnto vs so direct so plaine so open and champion that no wandring shall be there Fooles and silly men may walke therein vnto whom in the Prouerbs wisdome speaketh thus If there be any little ones let them come vnto me and shee hath spoken vnto the Fooles Come you and eate of my bread Thus Hierome vpon the place Tertullian in 4. against Marcion is indifferent for Christ the head of the Church or Faith in Christ the life of the Church Your Worship Sir Gagger out of your authoritie cast it meerely vpon the Church Satis pro Imperio if you can out-beare it Howsoeuer it is not expresse as it should be Not to purpose if it were expresse our question is not whether fooles can erre but whether the Church can erre The Church hath often beene compared to a Ship and now at last by you made a Ship of Fooles Content so you be Pilot in that Ship Sir Foole. Once at length you rightly bid vs goe see more For the Text of Iohn 16. 13. is more expresse than all the former He shall leade you into all truth But what if this text concerne not truth vpon Earth but Truth in Heauen What becommeth then of your Not erring Augustine and Bede encline that way What if it be personall vnto the Apostles alone not to the Church or their successours Hee will shew you the things to come and I haue many things to say vnto you but you cannot beare them now these such like passages doe more than seeme to conclude it vnto them What if he meant but All things that were necessary and conuenient for them to know so Theophylact Euthymius and others In this sort the Church is eternally directed so the Church directed cannot erre Matth. 18. 17. It is commaunded by authoritie Tell the Church and heare the Church No good proofe the Church cannot erre For the Scribes and Pharises were to be heard and obeyed yet had no assurance of infallibility Kings and Princes are to be obeyed yet haue they fallen into great enormities Ephes 5. 27. the Church is said to be glorious without spot or wrinckle or blame which is to be vnderstood de toâ—o integrato of the parts in Heauen and earth Of the time to come rather than present Without blame yet not without wrinckle euen here for error may be where blame is none Esay 9. 7. the Kingdome of Christ is to be established with iudgement and with iustice for euer and yet I know no such priuiledge annexed to iudgement or iustice of infallibility No more then Ezech. 37. 26. to a Couenant of peace an Euerlasting couenant to multiplying of them or placing Gods Sanctuary amongst them for euer Luk. 22. 32. and Matth. 23. 3. What correspondency haue they one with another not to speake of reference vnto the poynt In the former Peters faith was prayed for that it might not faile and yet Peter denied Christ Iesus If Peter were not the Church what maketh this Text amongst the rabbâ—e If Peter were the Church may erre as Peter fayled though not eternally one or other In the latter the Pharises must be heard And therefore will you say they erred not If they erred as doubtlesse they did then to what purpose are they pretended for not erring of the Church Much good may the
owne Bibles nay to the expresse words thereof nedum consequents and deductions saith this phantastique pamphleter if wee will belieue him For why marke expresse words Luke 1. 〈◊〉 9. 10. Thus wee reade in our English Bibles It came to passe that while hee Zachary executed the Priests office before God in the order of his course according to the custome of the Priests office his lot was to burne Incense in the Temple of the Lord and the whole multitude of people were praying without at the time of Incense This is a Text of the Protestants Bible true and expressely contrary to their owne doctrine In what Doe the Protestants teach that Zachary did no such thing or that there was no such custome of executing the Priests office or that the multitude were not then without or not at Prayer at the time of Incense If they teach or preach or belieue or thinke all these or any one of these then they are contrary to their owne Bibles Thus they doe not thus they are not charged to doe What then why they are charged to teach that Diuine Seruice ought to be in a tongue vnderstood of the assistants at the Seruice and this Text is contrary to that their opinion For by this Text it is expresse that publique Seruice ought to be in an vnknowne tongue peraduenture because there is no mention of any tongue at all of nothing there spoken or saide by the Priest at all of the vse of his tongue taken away from him or because Zachary offered Incense in his course and incense was prayers in an vnknowne tongue or because the people were praying without when hee was offering Incense within which they neuer did but in an vnknowne tongue Laugh Protestants and lye downe if you be not gagged Qui risistis nunc ridete qui nunquam risistis nunc ridete This fellow meaneth to make you merry was neuer heard such a giddy goose gagler In other Texts of Scripture for other points there is some face or resemblance of a proofe Here nec vola nec vestigium And if there were any it would put for Hebrew or Syriacke their mother tongue For the People were praying not the Priest and the People at least most of them spake but their mothers Language vnlesse the fellow can proue that the Iewes had their seruice in a strange tongue So that our deuout Catholikes by this Doctrine must either pray in English their Mothers Tongue or in Hebrew wherein the People prayed then and there The Latine is irregular because then not vsed by the People or Zachary For Zachary vsed no Language at all They prayed for ought we know in the Tongue they spake as we doe in English in our Seruice This they could pray in and did without doubt nor is it gaine-said Hee could not pray in any Tongue anon his speech being taken from him How shall we come at last to see how contrary this is to our Bibles why out with your Table-bookes and Note he biddeth you If you doe aske what you shall Note First Note that this was the custome This What Of good fellowship tell vs that we may note it Was it the custome for the People to pray we doubt not of it but to pray in what Tongue in Hebrew out vpon it take heede of that this Custome will cut the throat of Latin Seruice For it was in a knowen Tongue But to execute the Priests Office was The Custome What is that to Seruice in an vnknowen Tongue It is now a part of the Priests Office to say Seruice it was not then but to offer Incense or Sacrifice They had a custome Speake man what to doe what was their Custome We haue many so haue you Because the Iewes had a Custome to doe I cannot tell what must you needes haue a Custome to haue Latin Seruice and to impose that Custome vpon vs Must their Custome to doe God knoweth what put a Custome on vs to haue our Seruice in Latin What Baker would not bake that Codshead in his Ouen or what Hostesse not beate the pot about his eares that in discoursing with her of scoring should reason He would not pay his score because the Iewes Had a Custome I but note secondly and that salueth all The People were without and the Priest within what of that why How then did they vnderstand him Saying what Praying what He spake nothing he was not to speake to vse his hands not his lippes had he spoken must it needes be they vnderstood him not because there was a wall betweene or because a wall betweene and they could not heare him speake did he therefore speake the Ethiopian Tongue I will put a Case Suppose A. Pe. or this fellow were at Supper in Partridge Alley at a Bottle-Alewifes or a Bakers House with a brace of woodcockes beside himselfe his Hostesse is in the Sollar or in some outward remoued roome he calleth vnto her for what you will Sawce for the fooles say it be He may call his heart out till his tongue ake and not the neere for why his Hostesse vnderstandeth him not Marke his owne reason He is within shee is without how then can shee vnderstand him No more then if a Gypsie should cant vnto her in Pedlers French because there is a wall or two or some other partition that diuideth her and him asunder must it not be so For Note Mutatis mutandis Change but the termes and the reason is all one The People were without the Priest within how then did they vnderstand him The man were best to take heede of such reasons as this least a worse thing betide him then not being vnderstood lest the Woman suppose hee call her Whore For why not in an vnknowne tongue and so crack his cockscombe for his labour It were worth the noting to haue him so serued The Animall had but his iust reward for such a frothie reason as this fitter for an Ale-wife than a Priest Praemonitus praemunitus fore-warned halfe-armed Peraduenture by aduertisement he wil preuent it and so we leaue him noted for that which he is The meaning of that place nothing to purpose either expresly or by any consequence is this In the Temple at Ierusalem where this accident was that is thus remembred by Saint Luke The Priests both of the City and of the Country serued by courses in their seuerall moneths not singular for they were many thousands and had manifold employments in that seruice but as they were descended from the XXIIII Founders of so many seuerall Courses all of one Linage and Family in a Course These seuerall XXIIII Courses were first of all instituted as appeareth in the Scripture by King Dauid and so continued till the Captiuity of Babylon and after the Captiuity being restored to the desolation of the Iewish State Zachary was of the course of Abia in ranke the VIII The Priests seruice in the Temple was diuers and different euery day who should