intellecta vel à nobis S. Aug epist 111. Other bookes haue not in euerie part that infallibilitie other writers haue not such ample assistance as the Sacred writers had SI diuinarum scripturarum earum sc quae canonicae in Ecclesia nominantur perspicua firmatur authoritate sine vllae dubitatione credendum est Alijs verò testibus vel testimonijs quibus aliquid credendum esse suadetur tibi credere vel non credere liceat quantum ea momenti ad faciendam fidem vel habere vel non habere perpenderis Baro p. 336. ex Aug. epist 112. 2. THe Second exception is that S. Augustine in an other place Epist 112. speakes not of writings only but of witnesses and leaues it as it is pretended in our choise whether wee will beleeue or not beleeue any but the Scripture Wherevnto I answer that he doth not either there or in any other place of his writings reiect all authoritie or testimonie that is other in your sence binding vs onlie to the scripture so as you pretend For it is manifest that he doth admit the testimonie of the Church as infallible esteeming it c S. August epist. 118. c. 5. most insolent madnes to contradict it yet the Church is not scripture To this purpose there be many places in him whereof I will cite one In his booke de Vnit. Eccl. disputing with an heretick about the Question of rebaptizing such as out of the Church had been baptized and vrging the custome of the Church which did receaue such as were penitent into communion without rebaptizing he makes this discourse d S. Aug. de vnit Eccles c. 19. If some wise man to whom our Lord Iesus giues testimonie should be consulted of vs in this Question wee ought no waies to doubt of doing or putting in execution what he tould vs least wee should be esteemed to repugne not so much him as our Lord Iesus Christ by whose testimonie he was commended now our Lord Iesus doth giue testimonie to his Church wherefore as that Church diffused thorough all Nations beginning at Hierusalem doth receaue such penitents so without all windings and tergiuersation thou art to be receaued And if thou wilt not thou doest most perniciouslie cōtrarie to thy owne saluation striue against not me or any mā but our Sauiour himselfe whilst thou wilt not beleeue that thou art so to be admitted as that Church which he whom not to beleeue thou doest confesse to be detestable commends with his testimonie doth admit The same is confirmed out of the Gospell wherein our blessed sauiour saith to his Apostles and Disciples and in them to the Church that they should beare e Matth. 24. Ioan. 15 testimonie of him yet the Apostles the Disciples the whole Church be not Scripture Againe f Luc. 10. he that heareth you heareth me saith our Sauiour he that contemneth you contemneth me There is therefore an authoritie aliue and distinct from the written word which wee must yeeld vnto by S. Augustine also confessed and consequentlie it is not in our choise to beleeue or contemne any but the scripture Nor were the primitiue Christians without obligation of beleeuing the Gospell proposed vnto them by the Apostles before it was written downe as you knowe by those words which immediatelie followe their commission g Marc. vlt. he that beleeueth not shall be condemned To the place obiected Supra pag 107. alijs testibus vel testmonijs quibus aliquid credendum esse suadetur tibi creder◠vel non credere liceat quantum ea momenti c. Pag. 108. his words aboue cited doe suggest an easie answer as this Others not commended by this authoritie beleeue or not beleeue as you see cause but others commended by this authoritie you must beleeue as farre as by it they are warranted and commended Our Sauiour proued that those who beleeued Moyses and the Prophets and the Psalmes must beleeue him for of him they giue testimonie The like it is of the Church if you beleeue the Prophets you must beleeue the vniuersall Church for they giue testimonie of it and as S. Augustine saith more cleere then of our i S. Augu. Enarr in psal 30. conc 2. Sauiour himselfe One testimonie may warrant another and so they will become in a manner one He that obaieth the magistrate doth therein honour the Prince by whom he is put in authoritie And he that yeildeth all due reuerence to Princes doth therein a dutie vnto God who commands it Wee stoope to God when with all reuerence we receaue his word written or vnwritten and wee submit our selues to the written word or Scripture when wee listen to the Church which the Scripture doth commend When S. Augustine in his dispute with Cresconius about rebaptization was come this k S. Aug. li. 1. contra Cresco c. 31. 32. quia nec vos potestis proferre de Scripturis quarum nobis communis est authoritas ab haereticis venientem denuò baptizatum nec nos ita susceptum quantum ad hanc remattinet par nobis causa est Since neither you can produce out of Scriptures whose authoritie is common to vs one comming from Heretikes againe baptized nor wee one so receaued for as much as concernes this matter that is producing out the Scripture an example of the one or the other our cause is equall he shewes notwithstanding how euen in this point the Church in his time and he with it followed the most certaine authoritie of the Scripture l Ibidem c. 35. neque enim paruï momenti c. for it is not of small regard or moment that whe among the Bishops of the age precedent to the time when Donatus part or faction began to be this Question did wauer and had the different Opiniōs of compartners or collegues amongst themselues without breach of vnitie it was thought good that this which wee now maintaine should be obserued by the whole Catholike Church spred ouer all the world And a litle after wherefore though trulie there be not any example of this thing brought out of the canonicall Scriptures yet the truth of the same Scriptures is held of vs and euen in this thing when wee doe that which hath now seemed good to the vniuersall Church whom the authoritie of the same Scriptures doth commend that because the holie Scripture cannot deceaue whosoeuer feares to be deceaued with the obscuritie of this Question and of any other obscure Question pertaining to faith it is the same eandem Ecclesiam de illa consulat let him require in it the iudgment of the same Church which the holie Scripture without ambiguitie doth demonstrate There is yet a further Answer in the word Alijs You know that actions donne with ones owne hād by the motion of his owne spirit a man reputes not aliene but his owne So doth our B. Sauiour esteeme the actions of his mysticall bodie donne by the motion of his Spirit Settle
admitted in some others â—t in a scholler that pretends to haâ— reade the Question in him and â—â—th vrge his authoritie against the â—hurch of God such a pretence â—th no place §. III. Waldensis yeilding to the Scripture a preminence in Authoritie will haue vs depend â—on the Church for the sence of it 2. She is â—o to declare which bookes are Canonicall â—ripture A speach of Canus touching Walâ—sis his Opinion examined 3. When he saith 〈◊〉 Fathers testimonie hath abolished all Heâ—â—es he doth not exclude the Authoritie of 〈◊〉 Church symbolicall or representatiue 4 â—e symbolicall Church he saith against Wiâ—ef is not the Predestinated people only but 〈◊〉 Vniuersitie of right beleeuers spred ouer the whole world 5. He held that the Church of Rome cannot faile 6. and that perfect oecumenicall Councels be infallible in their decree HAecipsa fides authoritas Ecclesiae quantum homiâ—â— supergreditur rationem tantùm fateor diuina legis â—â—thoritati succumbit Baro p. 365. ex Waldensi Media est 〈◊〉 inter supremam authoritatem Scripturae infimam ratioâ— fides Ecclesiae Scripturas venerabiliter attollens exhibeus rationem vagam hominis ad hanc geminam authoritaâ— alligans zona Pauli Idem ex eodem 1. WALDENSIS saith the authoâ—â—tie of the Church is inferiour the authoritie of Scripture What this will you inferre that wee thâ—refore neede not obaie the decrâ—â— of Councells or that the Châ—â—ches authoritie is fallible Infallibâ—â—tie may be in others besides Scâ—â—pture The Apostles were not Scâ—â—pture yet were they infallible â—nesses of the trueth The Churcâ— the pillar and ground of trueth thoâ— the Church be not Scripture 1. Timoth. 3. Thâ— may be diuers Authorities infallâ— and one of them Subordinate to 〈◊〉 other And so are these two accâ—â—ding to this Author as you may â—by the places represented in the a Quamuis fides vniuersalis Ecclesiae inuenitur per Scripturas expressa ficut est paenè tota non tamen est eiâ—n authoritate par sed subijcitur Waldensis de principijs fidei Doctr tomo 1. li. 2. c. 21. Fides vt est Ecclesiae Catholicae in hoc accedit fidei Scripturarum quod non licet de ipsa dubitare eo quod testimoniuÌ„ Ecclesiae Catholicae est obiectuÌ„ fidei Christianae legis latio scripturae canonicae Subijcitur tamen ipsi sicut testis iudici testimonium veritati sicut praeconâ—zatio definitioni sicut praeco regi Ibâ—dem Quod aliquis pater vnus singulariter per se sensit potes aliquo saltem colore tuo decredere quod autem poenè omnes quasi vnus homo loquuntur fidei robur habet quia vnitas ipsa in Ecclesia hoc loquitur omnium gentium linguis Idem c. 25. margine One onely I will putt here because it serues also for that which followes In the 18. Chapter of his 2. Booke Doct. Fid. he declares how the sinceritie of the Churches testimonie in matters of faith is beleeued in the Creed there where we professe to beleeue the holie Catholike Church and amongst other things to this purpose hath these words Before the written Gospell this in the heart of the Church was the Gospell which Iesus Christ wrote and which the Apostles wrote in the harts of men and to whose testimonie euerie one must stand in the controuersies whether the text of the written Gospell be vnderstood or taken by the faithfull or subuerted by the Heretick whereof the Apostle speaks to the Corinthians saying â—ow are our Epistle written in your hearts which is knowne and read of all men declared that you are the Epistle of Christ manifested by vs and written not with inke but by the spicit of the liuing God not in tables of stone but in fleshlie tables of the heart And a litle after Though the law of nature which men beare written in their hearts be most certaine yet much more hath the law of Christ certissimum interpretamentum a most certaine interpretation in the hearts of the faithfull succeeding one another from the beginning of the rising Church and the Apostles times foreuer according to that of the Prophet this is the testament which I will make to them giuing my lawes in their hearts and in their sense or minde I will write them I must not omitt to putt you further in minde that in the place by you cited he saith b Haec ipsa fides Ecclesiae eius authoritas quantum hominum supergreditur rationem tantum fateor diuinâ— legis authoritati succumbit sed tamen quaâ— minoris esse authoritatis fidelibus si eam Ecclesia non praeferret Waâ—d to 3. de Sacramentalibus tit 7. c. 63. Si verum sem per sit testimonium Ecclesiae semper credenda est si quandoqâ—â— fallere consueta in omnibus est suspecta Ibidem the diuine law were vnto the faithfull * Non licet de ipsa dubitare c. vide in Addit of lesse authoritie if the Church did not preferre it And c Hoc est quod superius dixi quantumlibet eminent Scriptura diuina sanctioni Ecclesiae ipsa tamen taxabeâ— se sum eius quo aliter sentire non possis cuius interpraetationi resistere capitalis est culpa dicit Origenes Ibidâ—â— howmuch soeuer the diuinâ— scripture is higher then the decree of â—he Church ipsa tamen sensum eius â—axabit she notwithstanding shall deâ—ne the sense wherein thou maiest not â—old otherwise and whose interpretaâ—â—on to resist is as Origen speakes a â—apitall offence So he AD Concilium vniuersale praecipué pertinet definire qui liber sit canonicus Quam quidem propositionem aequo aniâ—o paterer ab haereticis non admitti sed illud tamen doleo veheâ—enter quod eam nonnulli fideles inficiantur in quibus Thoâ—as Waldensis esse videtur li. 2. doc fid c. 19. Baro. p. 365. ex â—no Addit Baro c. 20. 21. SEcondlie it is obiected that he denies to the Church now â—â—esent power to determine which â—â—e bookes of scripture And for this â—â—e cited three Chapters of his 2. â—â—oke Doct. Fid. the 19. 20. and 21. â—ut there I finde it not He doth inâ—ed hold that the Catholick Churh â—â—d no other is able to d Et hoc est secundum dictuÌ„ gloriosum de Ecclesia quod sc ipsa sola est cuius testimoniuÌ„ est tantae authoritatis praeconij vt ipsos libros diuinarum scripturaruÌ„ taxare decoruÌ„ authoribus certificare possit fideles nec fas erit tanto testimonio contraire wald li. 2. doct fid c. 20. Incertum ergo esse non potest cos esse libros canonicos habere pondus authoritatissuae quibus Ecclesia declarata per omnes gentes ab Apostolis propagata testimoniuÌ„ certum reddit Ibidem Dico quod Ecclesia eam doctrinam docet esse credeÌ„dam sub poena contumaciae Ea dico quae praesens est quae iudicia directa
decreuit à temporibus Apostolorum vsque ad praesens vel vsque in praesens per successiones Patrum id ipsum sapieÌ„tium atque docentium ei inquam credi debet sub poena perfidiae tom 1. doctrina 2. certifie â—hich bookes are scripture and that â—â—e can commend none in this naâ—â—re but such as were written in â—â—e Apostles e Ipsis patriincumbebat qui tunc praesidebaÌ„t Ecclesijs ducere scripturaruÌ„ volumina ad perfectum tunc enim fuit temporis plenitudo non dubium libri non reciperentur in authoritateÌ„ sacri canonis nisi qui de illis teÌ„poribus Apostolicis agereÌ„t tunc temporis essent quia aliter non facerent de diuinis rebus fidem summam Idem li. 2. c. 20. vt suprà daies but this is â—t to denie the present Church or Councell power to propose againe the same There were notwithstanding the Apostles approbation of diuers parts of the new testameÌ„t which approbation came not at least so manifestlie to the notice of all some who doubted of f Vide Disp pa. 431 or denied them as for example the Apocalyps and S. Iudes Epistle and the later oâ— S. Peter yet you your selues doe and Waldensis did receaue them aâ— the hands of the Church by thaâ— part which then liued when he did Neither doth Canus saie that hâ— denied a Councell power to propose bookes in the manner wee noâ— speake of but he saies onelie thaâ— he seemes to be of those who denie thâ— power to define which booke is Canonicall to belonge chieflie to a generâ— Councell It is one thing to saie thâ— a Councell can doe it another tâ— saie the power belongs chieflie 〈◊〉 the Councell as you will perceaâ— by the declaration of the next placâ— obiected Waldensis as Canus worâ— import seemed to denie not the foâ—mer but the later neither doth 〈◊〉 saie that he denied it but that 〈◊〉 did seeme to doe so some things thâ— â—hilosophers vse to saie do seeme 〈◊〉 be and are not and some thing â—emes to one otherwise many tiâ—es then to an other Had it been so â—deed I make no question but that â—ou who haue been diligent in your â—inde to seeke in him what might â—e brought against vs would not â—aue omitted to relate the words When you seeke for them next â—ou will finde in him first as I said â—efore that in his exclusiue he speaâ—es of bookes not written in the Aâ—ostles time or before to which purâ—ose he g Waldens li. 2. fid doc c. 20. brings the place of scriâ—ture Dominus narrabit in scripturis â—opulorum principum horum qui â—uerunt in ea with S. Ieroms Comment on it wherein are these words vt exceptis Apostolis quodcunque aliud â—osteà dicitur abscindatur non habeat â—osteà authoritatem And to the same â—enour he himselfe a litle after let vs â—ote the differences of Scripture because the scripture or writing onlie of â—he Princes that is of the Apostles hath after our lord the crowne of authoritie I meane of canonicall authoritie for the saying of the Saincts which followed them haue their authoritie bâ— not canonicall Secondlie whereas 〈◊〉 might be obiected that the Churcâ— in a generall Councell might wriâ— a booke and put it into the canon 〈◊〉 scripture to be among other bookâ— of holie writt since S. Gregorie thâ— great doth professe to honour theâ— as the Gospels in those words h S. Greg. mag li. 1. Regesti epist 24. citatur in Decret d. 15 Quintum quoque Concilium pariter venerot Ibidem Sicut Sancti Euangelij quatuor libros 〈◊〉 quatuor concilia suscipere veneraâ—me fateor Waldensis there answere to this argument and expounds thâ— words of S. Gregorie Thirdlie because it might againe be obiecteâ— out of the decrees whence the former obiection was taken that i Gelasius c. Sancta Romana d. 15. Nec obstat Pelagiana epistola de librâ—s recipiendis non recipâ—eÌ„dâ—s vbi scripturaruÌ„ libros in authoritate pleâ—â—râ—a quomodo sint habendi denunciat noÌ„ ad authoritatem per seipsum in instaurat walden vbi supra Pelagius the Pope seemes to determine what bookes are to be receaued into the canon and what not he answers with a distinction which doth explaine his minde and dotâ— suffice to stopp your mouth wheâ— occasion require Scripturarum libâ— saith he in authoritate plenaria quâ— modo sunt habendi denunciat non 〈◊〉 authoritatem per scipsum instaurâ— That is in briefe he doth not giue but declare their sacred and diuinâ— â—thoritie And the same the Church 〈◊〉 all times might and may doe â—hensoeuer there shall be cause â—hey were by the holy Ghost inâ—red and written by the Apostles â—d Princes of the Church qui fueâ—t in ea and were approued by them 〈◊〉 but it hath beene since necessaâ— to declare some of them to giue â—timonie that they be diuine and â—s testimonie the Church still can â—e Neither is our Sauiour offenâ—d with her testimonie giuen to 〈◊〉 word who was pleased that she â—ould giue testimonie of himâ—fe Of which matter this author â—th much in the former Chapters â—eciallie the eighteenth Fourthlie 〈◊〉 doth esteeme the iudgment of 〈◊〉 Pope and of a perfect Councell â—e infallible as you will heare beâ—e wee leaue him and therefore â—ch more is he to be esteemed to â—eld this honour to the whole wheâ— they be All which being conâ—ered that which you did vrge out 〈◊〉 Canus so appeares that it is but a â—ere videtur without an est vnâ— it HAec est sola machinae Christiana quae cunctas haereses mel aboleuit ipsa sc professio concors sanctorum Patrâ— secundum suorum temporum interualla reddentium testiâ—nium Christi verbis consuetudini primitiue Baro p. 3â— ex wald to 3. de Sacramentalibus doct 3. 3. THirdlie it is inferred that 〈◊〉 takes infallibilitie froÌ„ Couâ—cells and from the present Churcâ— because he saith that the vnanimâ— profession of the holie Fathers giuâ— testimonie according to the distanceâ— their times to the * Latiùs patet verbum quà m scriptura words of Christ 〈◊〉 the primitiue custome is the oâ—â— Christian engine which hath once â—â—lished all Heresies Wherevnto I aâ—swere first that he speakes withâ— exclusion of the Church presentâ— each heresie for it is well knowâ— that the Church which did aboâ—â— Arianisme and Nestorianisme 〈◊〉 the rest of the heresies before 〈◊〉 times was that Church whâ— knewe of them and that she diâ— by her Pastors and for the most pâ— in Councells though not without 〈◊〉 censent of that part of the Chuâ—â—â— and those her Pastors which liâ—â— in the precedent ages which o◠〈◊〉 or agreeable profession was â—nd partlie by their bookes as in 〈◊〉 acts of the Councells appeares â—his daie and partlie by the tradiâ— of the particular Churches wheâ— they had liued and died Which â—â—nner the Church doth still obserâ— in condemning heresies as they
vel for there were yet other things which might so come to light besides matters of faith all other verities are not manifested by triall and experiment though some be much lesse can you doe it â—f you consider that the later part and the former be coupled into the same sence by the coniunctiue 〈◊〉 answer secondlie that were matâ—ers of faith expressed in that part 〈◊〉 for of that part onlie which conâ—ernes plenarie Councells I speake â—s it is manifest they be not still â—ou were short of your aime for some kinde of generall Councells such as are vnlawfull or such as are lawfull but not approued though you would neuer be able to proue so much out of this place might neede mending and yet approued and confirmed Councels need none I knowe that some of yours doe sleight the distinction of confirmed and not confirmed Councels as a thing not knowne to S. Augustine and other Auncients but they be mistaken much If you looke into the tome of his Epistles you will see that kk S. Aug. Ep. 90. he with many other Bishops in a Councell wrote vnto Pope Innocentius to confirme their acts and decree made against those errours which Pelagius and Caelestiâ—â— had auouched vt statutis nostrae mediocritatis etiam Apostolicae sedis adhibeatur authoritas that to the decreeâ— of our mediocritie the authoritie of the See Apostolike be added And afterwards error impietas quae tam multos assertores habet per diuersa dispersos etiaÌ„ Apostolicae sedis authoritate anathematizanda est The errour and impietie of those men which hath so many abbetters and those disperseâ— in diuers parts or places is to be anathematized also by the authoritie of the See Apostolike Wherevnto the Pope answers and his Epistle is there ll Apud S Aug. Epist 91. also first commending them for requiring as they ought to doe the iudgment of the See Apostolike scientes quid Apostolicae sedi debeatur Secondlie confirming this obligation the Fathers saith he non humana sed diuina decreuere sententia vt quicquid de disiunctis remotisque prouincijs ageretur non prius ducerent finiendum nisi ad huius sedis notitiam perueniret vbi tot a huius authoritate iusta que fuerit pronunciatio firmaretur the fathers haue decreed by a sentence not humane but diuine marke the words that whatsoeuer should be donne in disâ—oyned and remote prouinces they should not esteeme it to be ended vnles it come first to the notice of this See where the proposition or sentence which is iust should be established with the whole authoritie of this Thirdlie he declates quisquis huic assentiens videtur esse sententiae speaking of the the Pelagian errour nimium se Catholicae fidei Dei beneficijs profitetur ingratum who soeuer seemes to consent into this opinion doth professe himselfe an enemie to the Catholike faith and ingratefull to gods benefits And in fine he cuts the faction of from communion separetur ergo c. Neither doth S. Augustine omit to giue notice of this answer for in the 106. Epistle hauing signified the sending of the acts of the foresaid Councell and of another also against the same errours together with letters to the same purpose to Pope Innocentius he saith mm S. Aug. Epist. 106. vide eundem Epist. 104. item serm 2. de verbis Apostoli li. 2. cont duas Epist Pelag. c. 3. ad omnia nobis ille rescripsit eodem modo quo fas erat atque oportebat Apostolicae sedis antistitem He wrote vs an answer to all things in such manner as a Bishop of the see Apostolike lawfullie might before god and ought to doe Adding also els-where that by those letters dubitatio tota sublata est alâ— doubt in that matter was taken away I omit to put you further in minde that the Councell of nn Relat. Conc. Chalc. ad Leonem Papam Chalcedon asked of Leo the great as their Head and Father confirmation of their decrees which he also gaue though oo Leo Papa Epist 55. ad Pulch. Aug. not in all they desired and thereby did manifest the fullnes of his authoritie It were easie to bring many examples in this kind were I professedlie to treat of it but keeping my self as I haue donne hetherto to those authors you obiect it sufficeth to satisfie by S. Augustines authoritie the difficulties which you bring out of S. Augustine The necessitie of the Popes approbation you finde elswhere Disput li. 4. c. 4. and it is a thing so manifest by the Scripture Matth. 16. Ioan. 21. that he in his Predecessor S. Peeter is peculiarlie designed as Chiefe of those Pastors on whom the Church is to relie for the knowledg and meaning of Gods word according to the Apostles doctrine Ephes 4. Ephes 2.20 Epist Iudae v. 20 which Pastors are therefore assisted accordinglie to support the faithfull built vppon them that all other interpretation which would exclude it is violent vnto the text and Disput li. 4. c. 1. 2. inasmuch as it labours to remoue the foundation which our Sauiour laide doth indeuour though vainelie for it is more then Hell can do to ruine the whole Church The pretence of plaine Scripture or of manifest reason such as an vnderstanding man considering cannot but assent vnto against the consent of all the Pastors in a Councell is openly insufficient because it doth suppose and without yea against all reason that they the Pastors with all their Exercise in Diuinitie and diligent inquisition looking into and considering the words of Scripture comparing texts together examining the traditions of the Church perusing former Councels with the writings of the Fathers and other monuments of antiquitie and assisted by the Holie Ghost their interiour Master be not as able as their aduersaries to conceaue plaine Scripture Innumerabiles sunt qui se videntes non solùm â—actaÌ„t sed à Christo illuminatos videri volunt sunt autem Haeretici S. Augu. in Ioan. tract 45. and reason so manifest or that conceauing and vnderstanding it they should be all so malicious and our Sauiour so vnmindfull of his promise as to propose vnto the world and oblige it to beleeue as our Sauiours words the contrarie But it is familiar in such Opponents as want them selues that Authoritie which the Sonne of God hath established to keepe vs from Errour to pretend euident Scripture and manifest pp Illi qui cum in vnitate atque communione catholica noÌ„ sint Christiano tamen nomine gloriantur coguntur aduersari credentibus audent imperitos quasi ratione traducere quando maximé cum ista medicina Dominus venerit vt fidem populis imperaret Sed hoc facere coguntur quia iacere se abiectissimè sentiunt si eorum authoritas cum authoritate catholica conferatur Conantur ergo authoritatem stabilissimam fundatissimae Ecclesiae quasi rationis nomine pollicitatione
Ecclesiae c. 19. example of it Shall the matter then rest and the Donatists against the custome and practize of the Church obtaine the cause There is yet a remedie and this is to call a Councell from all parts of the world and there by the promised assistance to decide it Which was done accordinglie and in the heart of the Church symbolicall the booke wherein Christian Religion is written by the spirit of the liuing God it was found and brought to light and proposed And to this iudgment all Catholikes afterward did subscribe and S. Cyprian also who in his time thought the other more probable would if wee beleeue Saint Augustine most willinglie haue donne and such as would not hauing notice of it were and are accounted Heretikes 2. Hence that I note this by the way wee take an Argument against you to proue by the iudgment of Antiquitie two things 1. that the Church can propose and oblige vs to beleeue that which she hath receaued onlie by word of mouth 2. that our Sauiour did not limit his promised Assistance to fundamentalls onlie Not onlie to fundamentals nor onlie to the written word Wee haue I saie in these two things the iudgment of the Church which was in and before Saint Augustines daies against you They did inquire diligentlie what had beene taught formerlie what tradition had been left in the Church by those who first planted Religion in it they made recourse to the fountaine Which kind of proceeding for the resolution of difficulties had beene commended to them from the f Quid enim si de aliqua modica quaestione disceptatio esset noÌ„ne oporteret in antiquissimas recurrere Ecclesias in quibus Apostoli conuersati sunt ab ijs de praesenti quaestione sumere quod certum reliquidum est Quid autem si neque Apostoli quidem Scripturas reliquissent nobis nonne oportebat ordinem sequi Traditionis quam tradiderunt ijs quibus committebant Ecclesias cuâ—â—ordinationi assentiunt multae gentes Barbarorum eorum qui in Christum credunt sinc charactere vel atramento scriptam habentes per Spiritum in cordibus suis salutem veterem traditionem diligenter custodientes c. S. Irenaeus adu Haeres li 3. c 4. cuius capitis initio Non oportet inquit adhuc quaerere apud alios veritatem cùm Apostoli quasi in depositorium diues plenissimè in ea Ecclesia contulerint omnia quae sint veritatis vti omnis quicunque velit sumat ex ea potum vitae Et Optatus in hanc sententiam Nam fontem inquit constat vnam esse de dotibus vnde Haeretici non possunt vel ipsi bibere vel alios potare ita li. 2. Caeterùm lege in Irenaeo c. 3. li. 3. vbi de traditione praeclarè disserit In compendio est apud religiosas simplices mentes errorem deponere inuenire atque cruere veritatem Nam si ad diuinae Traditionis caput originem reuertamur cessat error humanus sacramentorum coelestium ratione perspecta quicquid sub caligine ac nube tenebrarum obscurum latebat in lucem veritatis aperitur Si canalis aquam ducens qui copiosè priùs largiter profluebat subitò deficiat nonne ad fontem pergitur vt illic defectionis ratio noscatur vtrumne arescentibus venis in capite vnda siccauerit siccata sit an verò integra inde plena procurrens in medio itinere destiterit vt si vitio interrupti aut bibuli canalis effectum est quo minus aqua continua perseueranter ac iugiter flueret refecto confirmato canali ad vsum atque potum ciuitatis aqua collecta eadem vbertate atque integritate representetur qua de fonte proficiscitur Quod nunc facere oportet Dei Sacerdotes praecepta diuina seruantes vt si aliquo nutauerit vacillauerit veritas ad originem Dominicam Euangelicam Apostolicam Traditionem reuertamur inde surgat actus nostri ratio vnde ordo origo surrexit S. Cyprianus Epist 74 ad Pompeium De qua ep vide S. Aug li. 5. contra Donat. c. 23 25. Vide etiam de modo veritatem inuestigandi Tertullianum lib. de Praescript c. 19. 20. 21. c. beginning and was in after-ages still approued as appeares by the * See the Tomes of Councels practice of the Church vpoÌ„ all occasions of importance §. XI Saint Athanasius esteemed it a vaine thing for those who would not stand vnto the Nicene decree to call for Councels He did esteeme the decree of it infallible Of diuers infallible Authorities one may he more powerfull and commaunding then another FRustra igitur circumcursitantes praetexerunt ob fidem se Synodos postulare cum sit diuina Scriptura omnibus potentior Quod si ad hanc rem vsus Synodi desideratur supersunt acta patrum nam neque in hac parte negligentes fuere qui Niceae conuenerunt sed ita accuratè scripserunt vt qui sinceriter eorum scripta legat facilè reminiscatur eius in Christum religionis quae à sacris literis annunciatur Baro. p. 327. ex Athanasio S. ATHANASIVS was at the Councell of Nice where the Arian heresie was anathematized and the Catholike faith established yet he is also brought against the authoritie of all generall Councells first because he tels the Arians who would not staÌ„d to the iudgmeÌ„t of that CouÌ„cell which was oecumenicall and yet cried out for Councells that in vaine they runne about the world pretending they required Councells for the faith whereas the diuine scripture is more powerfull then all Secondlie because he saith that who so reades the writings or acts of the Nicene fathers they will easilie call to minde that Religion which is showed in holie scripture I am not yet so learned as to conceaue how the infallibilitie of CouÌ„cels is any waie contradicted in these words so farre I am from thinking that this great Saint did forget himselfe and vndoe what with others he before had donne The decree of the Nicene Councell together with the Acts did so bring to minde the faith commended in the scripture that withall it had force he saith enough to a Quis vsus quaeso Conciliorum quum Nicaenum CoÌ„cilium aduersus Arianam caeterasque haereses satis valeat S. Athanas de Synodis Indecens nefarium aliquid ex rectè iustè decretis ex rebus Niceae publicè cum illustrissimo principe Constantino patre tuo per accuratam deliberationem constitutis immutare velle c. per quam Synodum non illa sola sed reliquae haereses sublatae sunt in qua certè addere aliquid temerarium est auferre periculosum Ibidem epist Synod ad Constantium August â—ufficiunt ea quae Niceae confessa fuere satisque per se viâ—um habent tum ad subuersionem impij dogmatis tum ad â—telam vtilitatemque
And the iudge of controuersies the holie Ghost being put â—o silence errour in all other matters of that kinde is remedilesse For example if a man denies the Sacrament of Baptisme this errour were pernicions to the Church and â—hould it preuaile in all as it might â—f the holie Ghost taught nothing but what is expressed in the Apostles Creed both infants and others inmumerable would be ruined thereby for vnles a man be borne againe of water and the holie Ghost Ioh. 3. he shall â—ot enter into the kingdome of heauen The Eucharist is not expressed in the Apostles Creed yet you saie that it is necessarie to receaue it and by the diuine commaund in both kinds The commandements and the interpretation which our Sauiour gaue of them be not expressed there yet the Church hath them and the whole Christian lawe written in her heart by the spirit of the liuing God Our obligations towards superiours of all sorts in conscience and by diuine precept to be performed and the rules of Christian conuersation be not expressed there though the Church may not be ignoraÌ„t of them Pastors and Bishops are necessarie and by God ordained for her direction and the Prophecies be necessarie for confirmation of her faith and therefore she is to knowe both the one and the other though they be not expreslie in the Apostles Creed I speake of that Creed because you name it as also because the certaintie of other Creeds set out in Councells or of the explication made and proposed by the Church is the thing here disputed I acknowledge it as proceeding from the assistance of the holie Ghost to the Church in more then is expressed in the Apostles Creed Hence it is that I beleeue the Nicene or that of S. Aâ—hanasius if you beleeue it too then â—ecall your answer for whilst it stands there is no remedie for errours in these matters and many more nor way of assuraÌ„ce for many things which it is necessarie for the Church to knowe Moreouer it is certaine by the Gospells that our blessed Sauiour â—aught many things to the Church â—oth before his passion and after his â—esurrection which are not expresâ—ed in the Apostles Creede whereunâ—o you think only assistance is exâ—ended Reade the Gospell of S. â—ohn all ouer or of S. Luke or S. Maâ—hewe and you shall finde this to be â—ue And these things also the Spiâ—it according to promise doth suggest I haue yet many things to saie vnâ—o you which you cannot beare nowe â—ut when he the Spirit of truth comes â—e shall teach you all truth for he shall â—ot speake of himselfe Ioh. 16. but what things soeuer be shall heare he shall speake This before his passion and after it for fortie daies he appeared to them speaking of the kingdome of God Act. Apost c. 1. Now that all this whether written or not written otherwise then by the holie Ghost in the minde and heart of the Church is included within the obiect of the promised assistance I proue by no lesse authoritie then of our Sauiour Iesus Christ vpon whose promises all that acknowledge him to be true God Ioh. 14. should relie beleeuing them and him as most faithfull He the Spirit of truth shall teach you all things and suggest vnto you all whatsoeuer I shall haue said vnto you It is also necessarie for the Church to knowe the Scripture and the seÌ„â—â— which without assistaÌ„ce of the holie Ghost caÌ„not be done as I could easilie shew were I to treate of that matter Vide Disputat li. 3. c. 4. 5. but forbearing that discourse 〈◊〉 demaund Whether it be necessarie for the Church to knowe that oâ—â— Sauiour did ordaine Baptisme and Eucharist and Order if perchancâ— you thinke the institution of Bishop to be * Acts 20. deuine and how a man may knowe the meaning of those passages of Scripture which doe mention these things or that the texts indeed be Scripture if the holie Ghost doth by promise teach the Church no more then what is expressed in the Apostles Creed I demaund also how you come to be certaine that he doth teach that which in the Creed is expressed or that he doth teach any at all if by the Scripture theÌ„ he teacheth more then is expressed in the Apostles Creede for the Scripture is not expreslie there And my demaund returnes againe with a greater difficultie then before If he teach none but what is expressed in the Apostles Creed how be you certaine that the Gospells be diuine Scripture who taught you that The same Question I will aske and you must answer mark well of euerie Chaâ—ter and of the meaning of euerie verse which you pretend to be against any part of our whole doctrine or to make for any peece of your Religion Thirdlie some perchance will obiect that though he teach the Church all the dogmaticall points or heauenlie doctrine which our Sauiour taught and commended yet this is not verified of the Bishops and Pastors but onlie of the symbolicall or vniuersall Church which may retaine it though the Bishops and Pastors all should erre You knowe out of the begining of this Relection where this euasion is insinuated and being beaten from your owne hereticall tenet of the whole Church erring you seeme to make an offer in the end to repose heere But none that beleeues the Scripture can rest in it First because our Sauiours words are directed to the Apostles and their Successors who were to teach and needed assistance in it Ioann 14. he shall teach you And so they did vnderstand it as appeares by their decree whereof I am to speake afterwards Secondlie the symbolicall or vniuersall Church doth include Pastors and people and the people are to learne of the Pastors whose office is to teach how shall they beleeue vnles they heare and how shall they heare with out a preacher Rom. 10. Teach all Nations was said Matth. vlt. not to the people but to the Pastors Ioann vlt. and S. Peter and his successors in him were bid to feede the flock of Christ wherefore it was requisite the Pastors on whom the people and among them the predestinate depend for instruction should be assisted in their teaching especiallie then when they speake all the same Thirdlie our Sauiour ordained Pastors and Doctors in the Church Ephes 4. to the end that wee be not wauering and borne about with euerie winde of doctrine in the circumuention of errour and if this meanes which is established till the worlds end be fit for this purpose as no Christian can thinke otherwise of our Sauiours prouidence whom he beleeues to be God it is assisted so that it neuer errs in the doctrine of the faith which it deliuers to the world with obligation to beleeue it Fourthlie if euer wee are to beleeue that Christ speaketh and resolueth doubts by the Pastors of the Church according to that He which heareth you heareth me Luc. 10.
this assistance the shall teach you all things and suggest vnto you all what soeuer I shall haue said vnto you Ioann 14. So did the Apostle vnderstand it also in saying that Pastors are giuen to the end wee doe not wauer Ephes 4. nor be borne about with euery winde of doctrine Such a giddines happens in other things also besides fundamentalls The Church likewise beleeues the graunt to be thus vniuersall to all our Sauiours doctrine as appeareth by the matters which she defineth in generall Councels as in that of Trent And so much you will acknowledg of the primitiue Church if you reflect vpon that which hath beene said out of S. Augustine in the Donatists case about Baptisme which controuersie not being expressed in the Apostles Creed was in a Councell defined and in vertue of this assistance by the whole Christian world Neither doe you finde the difficultie which was resolued by the Apostles in their Councell put into the Creede Thirdlie you saie that out of a generall assistance such as God giues euerie man towards euerie good worke infallibilitie cannot be inferd and more you will not graunt But our Sauiour graunted more he promised the holie Ghost should teach the Church all truth Ioh. 14. 16. and his lessons must not be doubted of he cannot misse the truth or teach a lie The sence which he doth inspire teach affirme is certaine and the falsitie of any one thing were it possible he should teach a falsitie would infinitelie preiudice his authoritie in the estimation of his creatures yea the whole Scripture would be questioned if this ground were not firme â— Petr. 1. if that were not certaine which men inspired by the holie Ghost and affirming as from him or he in them might be false Fourthlie you saie that if the Councell follow Scripture it hath assistance and is infallible but not els This supposeth that the Church without assistance can vnderstand the Scripture or teach and define matter of faith whereas our Sauiour in the Scripture saith Ioann 15. without him wee can doe nothing and therefore he hath promised assistance that wee may knowe his will and our dutie and left the holie Ghost in the Church to teach her all truth The Iewes and Pagans and heretikes looke on Scripture but they doe not vnderstand it The Church hath a Master the Holie Ghost left to teach her and by his helpe doth vnderstaÌ„d What need a Schoolemaster if your child doth by himselfe vnderstand his booke or will you call it instruction if he neuer tell him any thing but what the child himselfe knowes before you knowe moreouer that when the Controuersie is about the Scripture the written word or about the Apostles Creed or generall tradition assistance is necessarie and also for the sence of Scripture more then is by your definition fundamentall To omitt that in your answer you allowe the Church no greater securitie from errour by the promised assistance then you graunt to be in pagans and heretikes without it for they dot not erre if they followe Scripture and iudge as it is there So little is the discretion of this answer and so small a benefit or rather no benefit you coÌ„ceaue to be bestowed in that faire promise Whereas wee beleeue our Sauiour to be God who neither mocks his Church nor breakes his word he can and will make and bringe to passe Ezech. 36. that she walke in his precepts He writes his lawes in her heart Ierem. 31. what hinders him and keepes his words Isa 59. in her mouth He hath opened a Schoole and put a Master in the chaire Docebit saith he he shall teach and if the lessoÌ„ be forgot suggeret Ioan. 14. he shall bringe it to minde againe he is not to staie till men finde it of them selues he is Master and shall teach it Fiftlie you saie that you are content exteriour obedience be giuen to generall Councells but no more Yet more must be giuen to the holie Ghost and in Councells He defineth Visum est Spiritui Sancto nobis Act. 15. were the words of the Councell it seemeth good to the holie ghost and to vs not to vs onlie but to him in himselfe and in vs heere assembled with his assistance promised in cases of this nature and wee are certaine that he who promised will performe to decide a controuersie our act is his act 2 Cor. 13. to Him it hath seemed good In S. Paul Christ spake the Apostles words 1. Thess 1. were acknowledged to be and were indeed the words of God Luc 10. the holie Ghost speakes in the Church the definition is his you must beleeue it and Matt. 18. remotis dubitationibus to vse S. Augustines words S. Aug. suprà there is no more doubt to be made of it In the conclusion of your discourse you repeate againe what you said in the beginning Alij fatentur opus esse iudice loquenteâ—eâ— homine Volunt tameÌ„ posse ab eo prouocari in foro in â—erno sea conscientiae Siâ— Wittakerus c. Sed hoc facilè refellitur tum quia in hac materia gratis confingitur haec distinctio fori tum etiam quia pax Ecclesiae sita est potissimum in foro interno scilicet in fide ergo non licet in eo foro prouocare à Iudice Ecclesiae alioquin nunquam pax esset conscientiae tum praeterea quia praxis Ecclesiae in Concilio Apostolorum aliorum generalium Conciliorum planè declarat quod Iudex Ecclesiae habeat potestatem dirimendi lites in foro conscientiae tum demum quia si quis teneretur obedire iudicio Ecclesiae in foro externo non in interno teneretur aliquando silentio sepelire veritatem Dei eamque non confiteri coram hominibus nempe si Ecclesia sententiam ferret contra Dei veritatem Accedit quod potestas Ecclesiae est spiritualis in animas ipsas ergo potestas illius iudicandi se extendit etiam ad forum internum Reuerendiss Chalc. in Collat. li. 2. c. 28. that wee beleeuing the Councels to be directed in their Decrees by the Holie Ghost in vertue of our Sauiours promise made vnto the Church attribute more to them then Antiquitie hath donne The vanitie of which your pretence sufficientlie appeares by that which hath beene answered to your exceptions in particular You finde none that denies what wee beleeue Yea those whom you produce to speake against vs affirme it constantlie And who more Auncient in the ranck of Christians then the Apostles themselues whose testimonie you haue heard in our behalf You haue beene told also that in Sainct Augustines daies the Catholikes vniuersallie and amongst them the greatest schollers submitted their iudgments to the iudgment of the Church in Councell and this too though the point so determined were neither fundamentall nor found in Scripture You shall finde also as hath beene likewise insinuated
A RELECTION OF CERTAINE AVTHORS That are pretended to disauow THE CHVRCHES INFALLIBILITIE IN HER GENERALL DECREES OF FAITH BY F. E. Acts 15. It hath seemed good to the Holy Ghost and to vs. AT DOWAY By the widdow of MARK WYON at the golden Phoenix 1635. TO THE RIGHT-WORSHIPFVLL MY WORTHIE FREIND M. S. N. MVCH HONOVRED SIR WHEN I receaued from you the last rich token I promised to returne a letter full of thanks But being then vpon a iourney found not meanes to send and so failed in my dutie Whereby my obligation was doubled to pay the debt that first and then to satisfie for the fault In discharge of both which if you please to accept of these few printed leaues you shall oblige anewe Your thankfull freind and seruant F. E. To M. S. A. SIR WHen a doubt is proposed out of a desire to knowe the truth I must not being called vpon be wanting to professe what I haue learned and do beleeue but if it comes out of a curious humor of contradicting I can dispose of my time better then to spend it in disputes What your mind is you reserue as your secret yet not so secret neither but that I perceaue something of it Your deliberation might I be of your counsell should quicklie be concluded He takes the safe way that followes the direction of the Church That Church I meane which all times could point at and which all Hereticks haue opposed You know that neither a Mar. vlt. Ioan. 3. Apoc. 21. Tim. 3. Galat 5. vide S. Aug. li. 4. con Donat Hereticks nor b 1. Cor. 12 Col. 2. Gal. 5. Vide S. Aug. Ep. 152. de vnit Eccl. c. 4. Firmissimè tene nullatenus dubites non solum omnes Paganos sed etiam omnes Iudaos Haereticos atque Schismaticos qui extra Ecclesiam CatholicaÌ„ praesentem finiuÌ„t vitam in ignem aternum ituros qui paratus est diabolo angelis eius S. Fulg. de Fide ad Pet. c. 38. inter Op. S. Aug. t. 3. Of the grieuousnes of the crime of Schisme see S. Aug. li. 2. contra Donatistas Schismatiks one wanting charitie the other faith too be in state of saluation These and such like things you can weigh your self And where the minde is not ill disposed the resolution is most easie Prudence neuer sticks at such a matter If your hinderance be that onlie which is insinuated I shall willinglie shew you how you may remoue it Go the Catholike waie that is secure Seeke no by-waies Suppose you might be made Arch-bishop of Canterburie vpon condition that you would go to LaÌ„beth on foote and that there were some danger yet no great daÌ„ger neither of loosing your purse without further harme if you tooke the common way ouer the bridge Would you stay till winter that you might go without that difficultie in greater perill and then hearing Themse to be frozen presentlie before they durst venture who told you so take your iourney ouer the ice A wise man would not veÌ„ture his life and all in that manner to saue two or three ten or tweÌ„tie peices being presentlie to receaue a thousand if he came to Lambeth safe and euer after to liue in great aboundance Yet your case is more desperate You know that in heauen you shall receaue at your entrance the possession of an eternall kingdome with a crowne of glorie amongst Angels in immortalitie The common way thither is the Catholike which way if you take you coÌ„ceaue the danger of being a little taxed in your purse and you think you heare some tell you there is an other waie but nice and ticklish wherein those who speak themselues durst not venture because if it miscarrie soule and bodie and Heauen and all is lost by a fault of c Quisquis ab hac Catholica Ecclesia fuerit separatus quaÌ„tumlibet laudabiliter se viuere existimet hoc solo scelere quod à Christi vnitate disiunctus est non habebit vitam sed ira Dei maret super eum S. August Epist. â—52 Schisme which opens into a downefall that ends not but where there is no end at all in Hell To venture your bodie ouer a deepe riuer vpon a bridge of thinne brittle glasse and to venture your soule ouer Hell-mouth vpon a ticklish opinion which is worse He that loueth danger the Scripture saith shall perish in it Eccles â— What speake I of an opinion When your imagination doth cease from working no bridge at all appeares you are but in a dreame But were there two or three who did against the rest and against the knowne practice of the Church auouch what you pretend would you venture your soule whilst worlds of learned men bid you take heed vpon their word Perpetuall torment among the damned spirits is a matter of that horrour that wisedome would seeke the safest waie to decline it and he that could see heauen a far of with those inexplicable â—oyes that are in it would think on nothing els but the securest way thither and feare nothing more then to misse it Were you to purchase a temporall estate or inheritance for your child you would not venture your mony vpon a title which the practice of the kingdome doth dislike and which Lawiers commonlie say is naught though two or three should tell you that it were a good title much lesse in securing to your owne soule an eternall inheritance should you be contented to relie vpon the Authoritie of two or three were there such the rest with the generall Spirit Gods people contradicting and anathematizing such as proceede in that manner That Catholikes are against you generallie in this pointâ— you know They communicate not with those who dâ— openlie oppose themselues to the decrees of Councels oecumenicall The Councels themselues excommunicate and anathematize them also And as manie graue Prelates and learned Deuines as euer esteemed their authoritie sufficient to determine a Controuersie and oblige men to conforme their iudgment therevnto who be innumerable so manie do counsell you not to trust vnto these fewe suppose you found them telling you that if you do you forfaite heauen When a fewe reputed Schollers were they many were it a whole Nation hold a tenet that is against the Church their Authoritie doth not make it Probabilia sunt quae videÌ„tur omnibus aut plurimis aut sapientibus his vel omnibus velplurimis vel maximè familiaribus probatis Arist li. 1. Topic c. 1. Nonomne quod videtur probabile est probabile Ibidem probable The truth of her assertions dependeth not vppon the approbation of euerie one that is in her Communion Much lesse of others The Pastors are to teach and if some of them do chance to forgoe the truth and leaue it there is power in the * You remember the practice of the Church in her first Councells against Arians Nestorians c. rest to define the matter and condemne theÌ„
rauening wolues in sheeps-clothing some and the Pastors driue them â—ot away because they know â—hem not The Disciples knew â—ot that one in the companie was a Deuil Wee are heere to â—reat of things manifest and to â—he Church and so farre that â—hey might be legallie proued against the men when they weâ—e â—e liuing and exteriorlie enâ—oyed the benefit of Commuâ—ion or are now to be seene 〈◊〉 their books bookes not â—ensured so cleerlie that it is â—nexcusablie vndeniable Your â—elf I suppose would require no lesse euidence to condemne a man and in so great a matter after death when he can speake no more for himself then was necessarie to q Reus non antè condemnandus est quaÌ„ si idoneis testibus vel apertissimis documentis vel indicijs indubitatis luce clarioribus coÌ„uict is fuerit aut propria coÌ„fessione c. Vide legem fi C. de Probationibus l. Qui sententiam 16. C. de poeâ— Neqâ—e manifestò constet incurrisse in sententiam excomun quod nullo modo potest occultari aut per aliquod reâ—â— edium iurâ—s excusari c. Extra Mart V. Adeuâ—anda condemne him when he was aliue To vndertake this Question in the latitude that I do is more then was necessarie for the defence of a generall traditionâ— more then can be showne for diuers partes of the New testamenâ— by you receaued but the poweâ— of the veritie will appeare thâ— better when it is found to hauâ— bene so vniuersallie manifest and so commonlie receaued that none by the Church esteemed Orthodoxe in their â—â—mes haue beene euer knownâ— though there were still occasion to looke vpon the authoritie of such Councels openlâ— to contradict it and auouch thâ— contrarie Neither could I well refuse it is a duetie in him that hath reaped benifit by their â—abours to come abroad and defend the iust honour of Perâ—ons wrongd who be not aâ—iue now to maintaine their owne credit APPROBATIO IN hoc libro cui titulus A RelectioÌ„ c. nihil est fidei Catholicae aut boâ—â—s moribus contrarium sed multa quae â—eritatem Catholicam confirmant Quaâ—opter dignum censui qui praelo comâ—ittatur Actum Duaci 22. Maij 1635. GEORGIVS COLVENERIVS S. Theol. Doctor eiusdem regius ordinariusque Professor Collegiatae Ecclesiae S. Petri Praepositus Vniuersitatis Duacensis Cancellarius librorum Censor Ex Disput li. 4. c. 5. pag. 377. OFfer not to cite any knowne Schismatike whose opinion is generallie by all Deuiâ—eâ— reiected cite no booke but what is at least tolerated in the Church and haue a care you proue that the man whom you cite doth himsef directlie and openlie asseuere and affirme the thing in Question Because it were but losse of time to speake of others such as either had their writings censured when they came to be knowne or durst not openlie auouch what they would to you seeme to say There are degrees in leauing the communion of the Church and the same partie at one time may be in it and at other time either out or in such an errour as if obstinacie were added to it would take him out Neither can the subtile dealing of any discontented person if he chance to step ouer shoes preiudâ—ce our cause or be taken for the tenet of the Church vnles the Church approue it and error it neuer did or will approue So there by way 〈◊〉 preuention howbeit you were not pleased to take notice of it And in the end of the leafe are cited some 〈◊〉 Ockams words Whose authoritie you scan first aâ— so will I for a reason not yours Which Will quicklâ— show it self THE QVESTION Whether any Deuines of the Catholike Communion haue openly and to the knowledge of those to whom it appertained to looke vnto the Church auouched and maintained of Councels entirelie oecumenicall such as were generall and approued that in Decrees of Faith they might mistake and erre YOV haue vndertaken the Affirmatiue and will be Plaintiff Your instance is in Austen Vincentius Lirinensis Athanasius amongst the Auncient and in Oâ—kam and Waldensis amongst the later To the same purpose others do cite Cameracensis Panormiâ—â—â— Stapleton Cusanus Clemangis and Canus and Baro who professedlie disputes the matter ioynes Optatus and Antoninus Franciscus Picus is alleaged some where too by the said Minister reciting the Opinions of some of these men What Councels he speakes of I do not intend to dispute being to looke into the Authors them selues and out of their owne Writings not out of other mens to learne their mind You will not be displeased if I put the places downe as Baro cites them that such as haue hiâ— booke which is publike may compare and iudgeâ— as they see cause §. I. 1. Ockam in a booke of his that is prohibited saies that some Christians comprehending Hereticks vnder the name seeme to think generall Councels some might erre 2. Fâ— brings in behalf of those men an argumentâ— proue it which argument is manifestlie deâ—cient In like manner he brings arguments proue that which he confesseth to be false as thought this also to be 3. He recites an opâ—nion whereof he saies he knew no abbettor thâ— speakes doubtfullie of the manner of assistin◠〈◊〉 and himself auoucheth the Authoritie of sincere generall Councels He toucheth obiter the question who doth approue and how and who declares them to be generall 4. His proceedings in this worke discommended QVia omnes Christiani sentire videntur quod tota multitudo Christianorum haereticari non potest quidam autem secundò quod nec Concilium generale aliqui verò tertiò quod nec Rom. Ecclesia nonnulli autem quartò quod nec Collegium Cardinalium aliqui verò quintò quod nec etiam Papa potest hatetica pollui prauitate Ideo de istis quinque quid sentiant Christiani cupio vt mihi reueles Baro. p. 359. ex Ockam dial li. 5. c. 1. 1. OCKAM All Christians doe seeme to thinke that the whole multitude of Christians caÌ„not become heretick but some Christians do seeme to thinke that neither a generall Councell Here first is not determined what generall Councells those people meane whether approued or not approued by the see Apostolike Seâ—ondly it is not said absolutly that they doe thinke and maintaine that Councells oecumenicall may propoâ—â—e and teach heresie but that some â—oe seeme to thinke that Generall Councels whether some or all is not here expressed may haereticari or haeretica prauitate pollui haereticate to keepe his termes or be stained with hereticall prauitie Thirdly it is not expressed who these Christians were whether Catholikes or Schismatickes And in case an excoÌ„municated persoÌ„ seeking how to maintaine Schismaticall proceedings in a book not tollerated but a Index lib. prohibit Conc. Trid. expresly forbidden should not avouch but seeme to think that Councels though generall might erre this could not make good what yoâ— professe to proue vzt that men 〈◊〉 our Communion haue in their curraâ—
works openly denied infallibilitie to the decrees of approued generall Councels Much lesse can the passage alleaged serue your turne if the word Christians be not heere taken so strictly as your inference doth suppose but so farre extended that heretickes come vnder the name too for then it may be true that some Christians doe seeme to thinke so and yeâ— no Catholikes thinke so there being other Christians in the world beside Catholikes euen in his opinion that said and was it not the same b Quaeso vt mihi reueles an aliqui sentiant quod tota multitudo Christianorum valeat haeretica prauitate foedari Mag. Iudaei Sarraceni etiam Pagani firmissimè tenent fidem ChristianaÌ„ esse erroneaÌ„ Disc Non intendo quaerere de illis sed de Christianis sub Christianis etiam Haereticos comprehendendo Mag. Nescio aliquem Christianum qui hoc teueat Ockam dialog par 1. li. 5 c. 35. Ockam thinke you that vnder the name of Christians he did also comprehend heretikes who desired also in this Dialogue to heare the contrarie Opinions of whomsoeuer Catholikes or Heretikes yea and sometimes others â—hat no c Nolo vt quod tenes in mente reueles sed respoÌ„siones aliquas quae cogitari vel teneri potuerint à quocumque non differas recitate c. sententias contrarias quorumcumque Catholicorum Haereticorum interdum alia quae à nullo Christiano tenentur licet possint habere Catholicos Haereticos defendentes te desidero recitare sic enim multiplicius efficacius exercitabimus studiorum ingenia Idem c. 34. Christians hold This for your argument of omnes and quidam Christiani some Christians and all Christians VNa sola est Ecclesia militans quae contra fidem errare non potest quia de sola vniuersali militante inuenitur in Scripturis authenticis quod errare non potest Concilium autem generale licet sit pars Ecclesiae militantis vniuersalis tamen non est Ecclesia vniuersalis Igitur temerarium est dicere quod Concilium generale contra fidem errare non potest Baro. p. 361. ex Ockam dial 2. THe next thing obiected is an argument of those some Christians whereby they imagined that perhaps the thing which they did seeme to thinke might be proued The vniuersall diffused Church onlie iâ— vnerrable but a generall Councell iâ— not the vniuersall diffused Church Ergo. In which argument the proposition or is Maior false as our Deuines doe proue by playne testimonieâ— of scripture and our aduersaries 〈◊〉 necessitie must acknowledg aâ— much vnles they will oppose them selues to the Apostles and Father and Pastors of the Church all together For if onely the Symbolicaâ— or vniuersall Church diffuse through all Nations and times hatâ— the priuiledge of not erring in matter of diuine Faith it followes thaâ— the Pastors and Fathers and Apostles all consenting are not to bâ— relied on as a proponent infallible since these be not the whole 〈◊〉 they neuer so glorious a part of the Church vniuersall Howbeit tâ— Question here is not of that argument or proposition but whetheâ— Ockam doth denie the infallibilitie of approued generall Councells or whether he doth name or giue other sufficient notice of any Catholike that denied it He names here none â—t all neither doth he say that they were Catholikes who seemed to thinke c. and least any should suspect him he professeth in the person of the other Dialogist to be of the d Quamuiâ— firmissimè puteÌ„ quod Concilium Generale haereticari non potest tamen rationes pro assertione contraria libenti animo auscultabo Mag. Quod Concilium generale possit errare contra fidem rationibus exemplis videtur posse probari Prima autem ratio talis est Vna est sola vniuersalis Ecclesia c. vt pag. 5. Ockam li. 5. c. 25. argumenti verò solutionem apud ipsum innenies cap 9. habetur inferius ad lit h. §. ad vndecimam minde that a generall Councell cannot â—rre in faith The like proceeding you may obserue in him els-where as in the last Chapter of this booke where he bringes reasons and leaues them without answer too to proue that the whole multitude of Christians hauing vse of reason pastors and people men and women may erre against the faith and that it is temeâ—arious to say they will neuer doe so though he there confesse this which â—e goeth about to proue to (e) Nescio aliquem Christianum qui hoc teneat Disc Licet nescias Christianum aliquem hoc tenere tamen pro hoc al quas rationes excogitare nitaris Mag. Ad quaestionem falsam nulla ratio nisi sophistica potest adduci Disc Concedo quod pro assertione praedicta nulla valet ratio nisi sophistica allegari tamen saepè rationes apparentes difficiles ad soluendum pro falsis inducuntur Vnde qualescunque inuenire coneris Mag. Quod tota multitudo Christianorum vsum rationis habentium possit contra fidem errare tali ratione probatur c. Ockam li. 5. c 35. Ergo temerarium est asserere quod nunquam tota multitudo Christianorum vsum rationis habentium contra fidem errabit Ibidem in fine be â—â—lse as it is indeed and manifestly against the Scripture Daniel 7. I say 49. Mat. 18. Io. 14. Ephes 4. Apoc. 20. and that he knewe no Christian at all he liued before the Protestant Religion that held it ESt quaedam opinio quae viam eligens mediam praedictis omnibus in aliquo aduersatur tenens quod Scripturae diuinâ— contentae in Biblia eiusdem sacrae Scripturae scriptoribus Vniuersall Ecclesiae atque Apostolis absque vlla dubitatione in omnibus est credendum Nullis verò alijs quantacunque doctrina vel sanctitate praepolleant est in omnibus absque omni exceptione fides necessariò adhibenda Ita quod nec in Concilio Cenerali si esset congregata vniuersalis Ecclesia noâ— decretis aut decretalibus vel assertionibus summorum Pontificum nec Doctorum dictis siue fuerint ab Ecclesia approbati siue non fuerint approbati est necessariò credulitas in omni dicto casu absque omni exceptione praestanda Licet in multis negari non debeant quoad multa Christiani ipsis credere teneantur Baro p. 361. ex Ockami dial 3. par tract 1. li. 3. c. 4. 3. THe third thing obiected is that he mentions an Opinion holding amongst many other things that credit is not to be giuen to a generall Councell in euery thing it saies and in euery case without exception Were this his owne tenet our cause were not hurt for wee do not maintaine in Councells of the Church approued much lesse in all Councels that are stiled generall such an vnlimited and vniuersall infallibilitie as these words import in omni dicto casu absque omni exceptione in all they say and in all cases without exception neither indeed
â—se ioyning her present Authoriâ— to that of the precedent ages â—â—ose minde she doth enquire in â—â—e manner that so by consent of 〈◊〉 whole still errours be condemâ—d Neither is it necessarie to finde â—at which she doth at anie time â—opose vniuersallie professed by all â—fore in plaine termes and expliciâ— or to finde it in all bookes of thoâ— times the Church informer ages â—d not so wee take the same course â—at she then did Secondlie you must â—tend vnto the words cunctas aboleâ—e hath abolished all No one Counâ—ll no one part as that which liued 〈◊〉 the second age or that which liâ—ed in the third or fourth hath aboâ—hed and destroyed them all but â—â—e whole hath done it Thirdlie that â—la is not * If sola be taken as you would haue it what will become of your triall by scripture onlie captiouslie to be stood vpon least you wrong the same Aâ—thor who neuer excluded the Symbolicall Church for whose testimonâ— k so 3. doc 3. tomo 1. li. 2. ca. 18.19.20 c. he pleades so earnestlie both iâ— the same place and in his seconâ— booke Doct. Fid. in many chapterâ— prouing it it's testimonie I meane to be contained in the Creede yâ—â— the Fathers of whose consent 〈◊〉 speakes in the place by you heeâ— vrged be not the symbolicaâ—â— Church properlie but onlie a parâ— of it And in like manner wheâ— speaking of the Church symbolical he saith it is she onlie whose testimonie is of so great l To. 1. li. 2. c. 20. vt suprà ad lit d. authoritie thaâ— she can certifie who are authors oâ— the bookes of scripture that soâ— doth not exclude another authoritie that is within for example thâ— vnanimous consent of Fathers whereof he speakes heere in the words obiected their authoritie were sufficient to certifie the same as you may see by him To. 1. Doct. 3. and li. 2. eiusdem to c. 26. and m Apudomnes Catholicos valet ligat vna sententia concors patruÌ„ maximè autem temporis longaeuâ— patrum successione sirmata ita vt locuÌ„ fidei habeat De quacre â—enda sub poenae perfidiaein symbolo scribetur Credo sanctam Ecclesiam walden to 1. doctrinâ 2. Verè enim ad omnes haereses compescendas omnes tractatus definitiones terminandas in materia fidei sola via est in qua errare non contingit concors patruÌ„ sententia ab ipsis ApostoloruÌ„ sedibus vsque ad nostratempora fideliter compilara In hoc enim simile erit regnum caelorum id est ecclesia catholica homini patri familias qui profert de thesauro suo noua vetera li. 2. c. 25. els where but it excludes authoritie Without Fourthlie he doth noâ— exclude generall Councells by thâ— Christian world approued and hâ— â—t should in Sainct Augustines â—es haue refused to subscribe to â—h authoritie or disputed against â—t which the vniuersall Church â—hat age beleeued and tought he â—t would not haue beleeued what â—s by so great authoritie proposed â—d bene thought madde rather then â—rthie the name of man Fiftlie â—her doth he exclude from infalâ—litie and power to abolish heâ—es the Gospels and other parts scripture and yet these be not â—t instrument or engine which he â—akes of so that you cannot build 〈◊〉 argument on those words to â—e infallibilitie awaie from all but 〈◊〉 Fathers Sixtlie notwithstanâ—g that Councells and the present â—urch are infallible it may be said â—the consent of the Fathers or â—he whole symbolicall Church â—h abolish all heresie because faith â—re readilie giues assent vnto that â—ch is so vniuersallie proposed â—derstandings not so well dispoâ— before doe quicklie stoope in 〈◊〉 case to giue reuerence to the â—h and such as doe not are condemned of all and so confoundâ— that they dare no more openlie pâ—fesse their errour whence it coâ— to passe that none making esteâ— either of the doctrine or of thâ— who stubbornlie doe persist in it degrees it is abolished And this one of those glorious prerogatiâ— which Waldensis so much coÌ„meâ— in the Church Besides the foresâ— readines in the vnderstanding whâ— it is by grace well disposed or 〈◊〉 lesse repugnance to render obedieâ— when it cannot with any shew pâ—tend reason for the refusall there dâ— appeare too more fullie in tâ— proponent the power of vniâ— which is in it selfe a dispositioâ— more plentifull participation of 〈◊〉 spirit and brings with it greaâ— force to conquer opposition Vndâ—standings well disposed yeild pâ—sentlie when the Councell speakâ— when the present Church hath â—ceaued and vniuersallie approâ— the Councell there is ex parte sâ—cti more adhesion and yet mâ— when the consent of all former aâ— is added and vnited and more 〈◊〉 there was in those that had Gradus adhaesionis ex parte subiecti as the â—choolemen speake euidentiam in â—ttestante S. Marke knew the Gosâ—ell which he wrote to be true yet â—hat the faithfull more easilie might â—eleeue it he had it n Vide to 1. doct 3. to 3. li. 2. c. 20. S. Hieron Catol script in Marco approued â—s S. Hierom doth relate by S. Peâ—er S. Paul knew the truth in the â—uestion moued at Antioch about â—ircumcision yet to make the creâ—ibilitie more appeare and more conâ—incing he went with it to the CouÌ„â—ell at Hierusalem where it was o Act. 15. â—efined And the Pastors there knewe too what was the truth yet â—or the greater weight of Authoriâ—ie they added testimonies of Scriâ—ture The scripture many times â—rings testimonies of scripture for confirmation as this Author showeth excellentlie to 1. l. 2. c. 20. and our blessed Sauiour himselfe in conâ—irmation of his resurrection cited Moyses and the Prophets When parts â—re vnited Bishops in Councell particular Churches in the vniuersall whole ages in the Symbolicall â—ater with most Auncient all vnder â—one eternall Word becomming one speaker and vttering in the language of all Nations as it were with one mouth in one spirit one and thâ— same thing no man that perceaueâ— it morallie can dissent This proponent hath a commaunding poweâ— ouer a wise mans vnderstanding anâ— it is a great engine to confound errour in which great engine he thaâ— should denie there were many paâ—ticular engines able to confounâ— Heresie wronges diuers particulaâ— in the companie vnlesse you esteeme it no wronge to denie that honour and abilitie to Prophets and Apostles ECclesia vniuersalis habet fidem indefectibilem non qâ—dem in generali synodo congregata quam aliquoties errâ— percepimus c. Baro p. 366. ex wald to 1. li. 2. c. 19. 4. FOurthlie to the same purposeâ— of remouing infallibilitie froâ— the present Church and Councellâ— he is cited out of another place speaking thus The vniuersall Churâ—â— hath faith which cannot faile not indeed assembled in a generall synâ— which wee haue vnderstoode to haâ— failed sometimes c. In which citaâ—n abruptlie broken of for aduanâ—ge the Authors speach is
de biblioth wald Cyâ— not without cause extolles the Româ— faith when expounding those wâ— portae inferi non praeualebunt teâ— Peter quoth he it is said the gates 〈◊〉 Hell shall not preuaile against it 〈◊〉 Church according to this promiseâ— our Lord the Apostolicall Church of â—ter remaines cleane from all misleadâ— and hereticall circumuention aboue 〈◊〉 the Prelates and Bishops and aboue Primates of Churches and of Aposâ— in her chiefe Pastors in most abundâ— faith and in the Authoritie of Peâ— and whereas other Churches are compâ—d with errour she alone established â—moueablie doth raigne imposing siâ—ace and stopping the mouthes of all Heâ—tickes and wee by necessitie of saluation not by pride deceaued nor inebriaâ—d with the wine of pride doe acknowledge and professe openlie with her the â—me of truth and Apostolicall tradition Hereby appeares what Walâ—nsis thought of the Church of â—ome and by those words secunâ—m Domini professionem and those â—abilita inquassabiliter he sawe which himselfe had professed dd Non potest in fide deficere vt suprà â—efore that this immunitie and hoâ—our was to continue And by this â—nd much more which you may â—ade in that Chapter where the thing 〈◊〉 professedlie discoursed of I â—aue as manifest that you did mistake him in your first pretenâ—e which was about the Church of Rome Non quidem generali Synodo conâ—egata quam ee SuÌ„prà ad li. q. aliquoties errasse â—rcepimus velut illa Ariminensis â—ngregata sub Tauro praefecto illa â—onstantinopolitana sub Iustiniano miâ—ore tempore Sergij Papae secuudum Bedam quaedam aliae Here againe you will haue the thing disputed what he denies of a synod and what he affirmes He denies that it is the symbolicall Church this is plaine by the coherence of the discourse as I declared before He affirmes of generall Synods that some haue erred as the Constantinopolitan vnder Iustinian the Ariminian vnder Taurus and some others Whence it followes that the Church so assembled is not the symbolicall Church for that neuer erreth Holie diuine faith is in her essence and therefore as her essence or being cannot faile no more can her faith She hath fidem indefectibilem such a faith as by reason of our Sauiours ff Matth. 16. care cannot be deficient and without exception of any time without admitting corruption to the preiudice of her integritie she retaines the truth euer gg Suprà pag. 49. steedfast whereas a Councell or assemblie may be corrupted and want integritie as appeares in those which he speakes of Moreouer there are vnder the name of Generall Councells as appeares by him in this place and elswhere some that are sincere some that are not That of Nice was sincere and was generall that of Constantinople vnder Iustinian was not sincere yet is it here putt in the number of those which he calls generall The infallibilitie of such as are sincere and approued by the successor of S. Peter the Pope wee maintaine the infallibilitie of all that are vnder the name of generall wee doe not Neither doth Waldensis contradict vs in the former part which is of the sincere and approued He saith indeed that some which goe by the name of generall haue erred you may adde if you please that others like them hereafter may But your argument will not hold Some therefore all Some men stagger in their faith men denie God sometimes you are not wise if you vnderstand this of all men or of wise men When Wickleff obiected as you doe hh walden to 1. li. 2. c. 26. Peccauit scimus Ariminense Concilium peccauit Nicenum Thraciae the Ariminian Councell wee know did amisse and so did the Nicene of Thrace The author the same whose authoritie you are medling with answers peccauit vtique magnus exercitus Angelorum c. a great armie verilie of Angells did amisse yea and the holie number of Apostles euen in apostacie after they had receaued the faith before the comming of the holie Ghost the spirit of truth to teach them all truth and yet neither is the companie of other Angels therefore depriued of their felicitie nor the assemblie of the Apostles regularlie without doubt of the principalitie of the Church nor a generall Councell of its authoritie Thus in the 26. Chapter and in the next which is the 27. he deliuers his minde touching the matter whereof wee are disputing in these words Non dubitat Ecclesia sancta Dei toties assistere sibi Spiritum sanctum quoties congregati fuerint authoritate plenario in nomine Christi ad fidei dubium resoluendum The holie Church of God doubteth not that the holie Ghost assistes her as oft as they by full authoritie be assembled in the name of Christ to resolue a doubt of faith This was not onelie certaine with him but it is he saith a thing which the Catholike Church holds as a matter out of question non dubitat she doubts not of it And a litle after Plenarijs Concilijs Ecclesiae si tamen maneant incorrupta Spiritus sanctus adest definit de fide The holie Ghost is present vnto plenarie or generall Councells of the Church if so they continue sincere or perfect and doth define of faith And if this be so then not exteriour onlie as some would shift it of but interiour obedience is due to the decree for such obedience wee owe to the holie Ghost who is present assisting as was before said and as it is further heere expressed doth make the definition definit And consequentlie this Author had reason to saie as he doth in the same Chapter afterwards that it ii Multitudini ergo credentium est potius adhaereduÌ„ quae cum claruerit quod in Christi nomine coÌ„gregetur ab eius decreto vnanimi non nisi cum periculo declinatur c. 27. is daungerous to swarue from such decrees To this purpose in the Chapter whence you dispute he ponders those words of the first Councell assembled in Hierusalem which gaue the forme to all others and taught them how to vnderstand our Sauiours ll Ioh. 14. 16. promise It hath seemed good to the holie Ghost and to vs. mm waeldendens to 1. li. 2. c. 19. marke saith he they said not it seemed good to the holie Ghost and the Church but to the holie Ghost and to vs who heere doe represent the Church and yet not to vs without the holie Ghost but to the holie Ghost in himselfe and to the * when this authoritie comes in the fortè sic and fortè noÌ„ haue no place The Holie Ghost cannot be deceaued What he doth auouch is most certaine Remouentur dubitationes Be mindfull of this note when you come to S. Aug. holie Ghost in vs in the Church who in doubts of faith is neuer wanting to the Church Christ promising to her the holie Ghost shall teach you all truth And therefore what seemeth good to him the same
Panormitans doctrine of the Pope Councels and vniuersall Church or as the Minister speakes imbracing it Whereas he doth onlie recite Panormitans words Notat Abbas de Sicilia quòd c. and hauing repeated them concludes haec ille So passing immediatlie to another Petrus de Ancharano c. without more adoe Yet since you will needes confound their opinions in this matter and make them both one one and the Deuine rather the matter appertaining to Deuinitie may deliuer it for them both which he doth in this tenour Antoninus m Ad illum pertinet Sanctum canonizare ad quem pertinet quaestiones fidei determinare Quod quidem planuÌ„ est spectare ad Summum PoÌ„tificem S. Antoninus in summa p. 3. tit 22. c. 5. §. 5 lege etiam si placet §. 3. eiusdem tit Apostoli in Euangelijs Epistolis affirmaueruÌ„t in omni doctrina Petrum esse loco Domini Idem c. 6. §. 7. ex Cyrillo Quaeritur vtrum authoritas vniuersalis Ecclesiae in determinatione fidei principaliter resideat in Papa Respondet S. Thomas affirmatiue 2. 2. q. 11. a. 2. ad 3. Postquam aliqua essent authoritate vniuersalis Ecclesiae determinata si quis tali ordinationi pertinaciter repugnaret haereticus censeretur Quae quidem authoritas principaliter residet in Summo Pontifice Dicitur enim 24. q. 1. Quoties fidei ratio ventilatur arbitror omnes fratres nostros coepiscopos non nisi ad Petrum id est ad sui nominis authoritatem referri debere caetera vsque finem vt habentur in S. Thoma loco cit S. Antoninus c. citato §. 19. Sancti Patres in Concilio congregati nihil statuere potuissent nisi authoritate Summi Pontificis interueniente sine qua etiam Concilium congregari non potest §. 20. ex codem S. Thom. li contra impugn relig To him appertaines the canonizing of Saints to whom it belongeth to determine questions touching the faith which manifestlie appertaines vnto the Pope n The question is whether the Authoritie of the vniuersall Church in determination of faith reside principallie in the Pope Saint Thomas they be Antoninus his words which I relate answers affirmatiuelie that after things be determined by the authoritie of the vniuersall Church if any stubbornelie resist or withstand that ordination he should be esteemed an Heretick Which Authoritie is chieflie in the Pope And to this tenet of Saint Thomas Antoninus there subscribeth denying to the the Bishops power to ordaine in this manner or to call a Councell to this purpose without the Popes Authoritie o Concilium non solum comprehendit Papam vt caput quod est principale in Concilijs sed etiam reliquum corpus Ecclesiae vt alios Praelatos de quo Concilio inquit Propheta Non abscondi misericordiam tuam veritatem tuam à Concilio multo Idem tit 23. c. 1. A Councell doth not include onlie the Pope as Head which is chiefe in Councels but the rest of the bodie withall as other Prelates Of which Councell the Prophet saith I haue not hid thy mercie and thy truth from a great Councell p A Concilijs vanitatis malignitatis abscondit Deus misericordiam veritatem sed non abscondit à Concilio multorum sc tendentium ad vnum c. Ibidem §. 1. From Councels of vanitie and malignitie God doth hïde his mercie and his truth but he hideth them not from the Councell of many tending vnto one c. q Ea quae statuuntur in huiusmodi Concilijs generalibus omnes fideles astringunt Idem eod tit cap. 2. in principio things constituted in such generall Councels oblige all the faithfull §. V. 1. Cusanus held the infallibilitie of generall decrees 2. The words obiected out of him against vs are indeed plainely for vs as in the reading of them they are at leingth in the Addition it doth appeare CArdinalis Cusanus in Concilijs generalibus ad hoc vt eorum decreta à nobis acceptentur tanquam certa infallibilia quasdam conditiones requirit c. Baâ—o p 368. 1. CVSANVS This man is brought to teach vs and to teach the whole Church the conditions of a generall Councell as if none were good but such as he liked of and approued he was a yonge man when he wrote his booke and a Finit collectio c. quam sacro huic Basiliensi Concilio cum omni humilitate offero nihil in omnibus veruÌ„ aut defendendum pro vero iudicans seu assereÌ„s nisi quod ipsa sancta Synodus catholicum verum iudicauerit Cusanus in fine CoÌ„cordantiae suae Catholicae earnest for the Councell of Basill though he changed his minde b Vide eiusdem Epist ad Rodericum da Treuino afterwards Neither is the Question heere what be the conditions of a Councell but Whether a generall Councell which hath all conditions that are necessarie and is by the Pope approued be assisted to the definition of the truth and be infallible in which matter wee shall easilie knowe Cusanus his minde In the third chapter which you cite he recites the words of Nicolas the first terming such decrees c Idem li. 2. de Concord c. 3. diuinitus inspiratas sententias sentences inspired by God And after of himselfe he saith d Ibidem si concordanti sententia aliquid fuerit definitum per Spiritum Sanctum censetur inspiratum per Christum in medio congregatorum in eius nomine praesidentem infallibiliter iudicatum If any thing be defined by an agreeing Sentence it is esteemed inspired by the holy Ghost and iudged or determined by Christ praesiding in the middes of them that are assembled in his name This he declares in the Councell of Nice whereof the great e Conc. Chalc. act 1. Councell of Chalcedon saith that the holie Ghost did did there certainlie remaine or sitt amongst the Fathers and ordaine the things which were there ordained And then concludes f Cusan c. 3. vt suprà talia fuerunt omnia orthodoxa Concilia such haue bene all Councells orthodoxall As for the conditions he speakes of none which he thought necessarie be wanting in those generall Councells which wee maintaine The presence of the fiue Patriarkes he doth not require but when they be Catholik nor then neither but for the more fullnes of the Councell Others may be perfect which haue not all but that which hath all is he saith synodus g Ibidem perfectissima most perfect in that kinde One may haue the whole essence of a man all the essentiall parts and yet not be most perfect Our Councells are not made in secret they be assembled and openlie from all parts of the world wheresoeuer the Catholick Church is and such as come may freelie speake and are heard They looke into scriptures and former Councells and Antiquitie to finde the truth and though in the search it might appeare to
confirmed or approued Councells 3. It is a sophisticall proceeding to impugne one veritie with another veritie FAteor equidem quodcunque Concilium generale vniuersalem Ecclesiam representare Sed dum vrges Ecclesiam errare non posse verum est in eo sensu qui à fidelibus accipitur Intelligimus enim totam simul Ecclesiam hoc est fideles omnes non errare at nihil obstat cur maior Ecclesia pars non erret Baro p. 381. ex Cano. loc 5. c. 5. CANVS Is pretended to contradict vs though he be knowne to maintaine the Councells infallibilitie such as wee speake of adding withall that the contrarie is hereticall In the fourth Chapter of his fift booke where he treates of that controuersie his third conclusion is a Tertia Conclusio Concilium generale confirmatuÌ„ authoritate Romani Pontificis certam fidem facit Catholicorum dogmatuÌ„ Quam quidem conclusioneÌ„ ita explorataÌ„ habere opus est vt eius coÌ„trariam haereticam esse credamus Canus li. 5. c 4. A generall Councell confirmed by the authoritie of the Bishop of Rome doth make certaine the faith of Catholike tenets Which he there proues with many reasons resoluing also the doubts which Heretikes obiect against it 2. Hauing established that authoritie he disputes further whether 〈◊〉 Councell not confirmed by the Pope hatâ— certaine and firme authoritie or no some learned men b Dubium excutiendum est an Concilium per legatos suÌ„mi PoÌ„tificis celebratum firmam certaÌ„que habeat authoritatem an potius episcopi Romani confirmatio expectaÌ„da sit vt certa habeaÌ„tur decreta CoÌ„cilij Idem c. 5. viri doctissimi doe affirme it because it represents the vniuersall Church which cannot erre Wherevnto Canus answers that the whole Church or an approued Councell which doth perfectlie represent it cannot erre but a part of either may c Ibidem The iudgment saith he of the greater part of the Councell though the Legates follow it is not certaine certum autem esset si a summo Pontifice confirmaretur but if it should be confirmed by the Pope it would be certaine And in the same manner he doth answer to a second argument of assistance made for the same purpose d Ibidem euen as saith he that which seemeth good to the whole Church the same also seemeth good to the holie Ghost but not presentlie what the greater part of the Church shall haue iudged the same is the iudgment of the holie Ghost so if anything be iudged by all the Bishops it is verilie iudged by the spirit of God but not presentlie if many fathers of the Councell agree into one sentence shall it be to be beleeued the sentence of the holie Ghost vnles it be confirmed by the Pope 3. By the waie I obserue here two things one is that if an author interprete those words Ecclesia errare non potest the Church cannot erre of the whole or vniuersall Church it doth not followe that he denies therefore infallibilitie to generall approued Councells which are perfect representations of the Church diffused for this e Simile in S. Antonino obseruare licet de quo suprà Et nota post verba ab aduersarijs citata vt supa pag. 86. seqâ—i immediatè in authore sic igitur non ego admitto vt totum Concilium cuÌ„ legatis errare possit at errare poterit maior pâ—â—s Concâ—lij eâ—â—nti illi poteruÌ„â— le gatis subscribere Aâ— que id est quod nos in praesentia dicimus â—udicium maioris partis etiam si legati sequantur non esse certum certùm autem esset si à summo Pontificeconfirmaretur Nec enim opus est quemad moduÌ„paulò antè docuimus sententiaÌ„ Concilij omnes simul patres approbare Canus li. 5. c. 5 q. â— man whom you cite for the former part doth also maintaine the later And the manner of arguing is indeed absurd because it would impugne one truth by another As if I should saie the whole Gospell of S. Iohn is the vndoubted word of God therefore the first Chapter of it is not And were it admitted it would proue as before I said on the same occasion that euerie Apostle yea all the Apostles and Fathers might haue consented in a grosse yea and in the most fundamentall errour because they be not the whole and vniuersall Church The other thing which I obserue is that without sinceritie or conscience you doe make vse of mens words contrarie to their knowne professed meaning and intention which proceeding especiallie in matter of religion is inexcusable The like obseruation I might haue made in Antoninus who is alleaged against that which he did openlie maintaine §. VIII 1. Stapleton did acknowledge degrees of extension in diuine assistance and maintaine the infallibilitie of the Church in her publike decrees of faith 2. To be obnoxious to errour in matters not reuealed doth not any way impeach the promise of assistance and infallibilitie in all that doth intrinsecallie appertaine to the substance of diuine faith QVando de ijs quaestionibus quae vel non necessariò ad fidem pertinent sed salua fidei compage variè a varijs intelligâ— possunt c. consulitur vel obiter disputat Ecclesia aberrare aliquando poterit c. ex Stap. 1. STAPLETON is brought as if he gaue no more to the Church and her Councells then Protestants doe because he doth not maintaine their infallibilitie in curious subtilities and questions indifferent vnto faith nor thinke it so ample in obiect as was that of the Apostles Where first it is to be considered that as in faith or science so likewise in assistance or infallibilitie more or lesse extension doth not change the nature of the thing Mathematicall science in one is more extended then in another one knowes more conclusions then another doth yet is it in both of the same nature The light of glorie in all the Saints is of the same Species and kinde as the Deuines teach though one by it knowes more another lesse Faith in vs and in the Apostles before and since the Incarnation is of the same nature but more extended in the Apostles then in vs and since the incarnation more generallie then it was before The like wee saie of assistance or infallibilitie in iudgment it hath been more extended in some then in others more at one time then at another Secondlie it is to be considered that the Apostles who did write scripture had infallibilitie in a Singuli Apostoli de omnibus plenissimè à Deo instructierant ita vt eorum quilibet de quocunque dogmate ad fidem siuè necessariò siue noÌ„ necessariò pertinente pronunciare potuisset idquetanta certitudine vt non solum pastores essent fidelissimi sed etiaÌ„ magistri peritissimi omniaque etiam subtilissima circa fidei mysteria penerarent Staeplet de princip fidei Doctrinal li. 8. c. 15. Quod autem de Apostolis modo diximus
it in your hearts not to meditate before what you shall answer for I will giue you a mouth and wisedome which â—ll your aduersaries shall not be able to gainesay nor resist Luc. 21. It shall â—e giuen to you in that same hower what â—ou shall speake for it it not you that â—peak Cum venerit ille Spiritus veritatis docebit vos omnem veritatem Non enim loquetur a semetipso sed quaecunque audiet loquetur c. de meo accipiet annuÌ„ciabit vobis Ioan. 16. Mea doctrina â—oÌ„â—st mea sed eius qui misit me Ioan. 6 Tâ—es sunt qui testimonium dant in caelo c. hi tres vnuÌ„ sunt 1. Ioan. 5. but the Spirit of your Father that â—eaketh in you Matt. 10. My words â—hat I haue put in thy mouth shall not â—epart out of thy mouth and out of the â—outh of thy seed c. saith our Lord â—om hence foorth and foreuer Esaie â—9 He that heareth you heareth me â—uke 10. Since you seek a proofe of â—hrist speaking in me 2. Cor. 12. The â—pirit of our Lord hath spoken by me â—nd his words by my tongue 2. Kings â— Againe The decrees which wee â—eak of haue the testimonie of the â—olie Ghost and the Scriptures â—ue the testimonie of the Holie â—host Now the Holie Ghost giuing testimonie to both these iâ— not thereby in himself deuided into two He is still the same testis Saint Gregorie our Apostle reuerenced the four first generall CouÌ„cels li. 1. Regest ep 24. vt quatuor Euangelia as he did the four Gospels Saint Augustine whose authoritie is heere obiected when he speakes of the sentence against the Donatists li. 6. de Bapt. c. 39. saies Deus plenario Concilio reuelauit The Church Waldensis aboue told you make no doubt but that the Holie Ghost assists her li. 2. Doct. fid c. 27. in her sincere oecumenicall assemblies He is present to them and defines in them So dâ— the Apostles beleeue too Act. 15. attributing their decree to the Holie Ghosâ— whose assistance was * Suggeret vobis omnia Ioh. 14. In vobis erit IbideÌ„ Docebit vos omnem veritatem c. 16. promised It hath seemed good to the Holie Ghosâ— and to vs. This for Councels Noâ— for Scripture Well spake the Holie Ghost by Esaâ— the Prophet vnto our Fathers Aâ— vlt. God who at sundrie times and 〈◊〉 diuers manners spake in times pasâ— vnto the Fathers by the Prophets Heâ— 1. He spake by the mouth of his hoâ— Prophets which haue beene since 〈◊〉 world began Luc. 1. Holie men of God spake as they were moued by the Holie Ghost 2. Pet. 1. In a word There are diuisions of graces but one Spirit and there are diuisions of operations but one Lord and there are diuisions of ministrations but one God who worketh all in all And the manifestation of the Spirit is giuen to euerie one to profit To one c. Vide Disput li. 3 vbi agitur de Spiritus Sancti assistentia And all these things worketh one and the same Spirit diuiding to euerie one according as it will 1. Cor. 12. I forbeare to note that Saint Augustine speakes in the place obiected of a point * Cùm enim petiuisses vt de inuisibili Deo vtrum peroculos corporeos possit videri prolixè aliquid copioseque ad te scriberem negare non potui S. Aug. Epist 112. Quod non sic ostendero vt aut corporis aut animi sensu visum perceptumque teneatur tamen dixero aliquid quod aut verum quidem aut falsum esse necesse sit sed nullo illorum duûm genere videatur restat vt tantum modo credatur vel non credatur Sed si dininarum Scripturarum earum sc quae canonicae in Ecclesia nominantur perspicua quod dixero firmatur authoritate sine vlla dubitatione credendum est Alijs verò testibus c. vt suprà Ibidem Dico itaque quod visuri sint Deum in ipso corpore sed vtrum per ipsum sicut per corpus nunc videmus solem lunam stellas mare ac terram quae sunt in ea non parua quaestio est S. Aug. li 22. de Ciuit. Dei c. 29. Ratiocinatio illa Philosophorum qua disputant ita mentis aspectu intelligibilia videri sensu corporis sensibilia id est corporalia vt nec intelligibilia per corpus nec corporalia per scipsa mens valeat intueri si posset nobis esse certissima profectò certum esset per oculos corporis etiam spiritalis nullo modo posse videri Deum Sed istam ratiocinationem vera ratio prophetica irridet authoritas Ibidem Tametsi nec Scripturae nec ConcilioruÌ„ nec PatruÌ„ testimonijs expressè definituÌ„ sit noÌ„ posse Deum oculo corporeo videri id tamé adeo efficaci ratione naturali c. Vasquez 1. p. disp 40 c. 2. not determined by the Church whence ariseth a third Answer And he that can but English his m Inspiciatur codex manuscriptus words will himself espie a fourth and a fift Quasi Episcoporum Concilia Scripturis canonicis aliquando fuerint comparata Baro. p. 336 ex Aug. 3. The third exception is that Councells according to S. Augustine be not equall to the Scripture But I see not how any thing can be drawne hence against their infallibilitie in decrees Wee doe not equall the Apostles or the Prophets to our Sauiour Iesus Christ nor the written word with the eternall and increated word yet the Prophets and the Apostles and the Scripture or written word are infallible Moreouer the Canonicall Scriptures are infallible in all what euer they auouch of what argument or matter soeuer it be which latitude of infallibilitie wee finde not in the acts of Generall Councels nor in any other booke or writing as you were told before and though I doe not your selfe will repeate againe out of S. Augustine quis n S. Aug. li. 2. de bapt contr Donat. c. 3. nesciat Sanctam Scripturam canonicam tam veteris quam noui testamenti certis suis terminis contineri eamque omnibus posteriorum Episcoporum literis ita praeponi vt de illa omninò dubitari disceptari non possit vtrum verum vel rectum sit quicquid in ea scriptum esse coÌ„stiterit That quicquid doth import an amplitude of infallibilitie which Councells haue not and therefore they are not equall vnto Scripture The Donatists excepted against a Councell because it had in it registred the daie and the Consuls o Etiam hinc gestis ipsis CirteÌ„sibus calumniabantur quia ibi dies CoÌ„sules legebantur exigebaÌ„t à nobis vt aliqua Ecclesiastica Concilia proferremus vbi dies recitarentur consules c. etiam hoc exigebant vt de Scripturis sanctis ostenderemus alicubi dies Consules esse conscriptos quasi Episcoporum Concilia Scripturis
superare Omnium enim Haereticorum quasi regularis est ista temeritas Sed ille fidei imperator clementissimus per conuentus celeberrimos populorum atque gentium sedesque ipsas Apostolorum arce authoritatis muniuit Ecclesiam per pauciores piè doctos verè spirituales viros copiosissimis apparatibus etiam inuictissimae rationis armauit S. Aug. Epist ad Diosc 56. reason against the Church to the end they may seeme to bring something greater for to oppresse or ouercome her authoritie as S. Augustine well obserued long agoe And by the like stratagem did the pagaÌ„s heeretefore striue to withdraw men whollie from the Creede by shewing the contrarie so cleerelie that no doubt as they pretended could be made of it which was a way they thought to get qq In Catholica me tenet consensio populorum atque gentium c. apud vos autem vbi nihil horum est quod me inuitet ac teneat sola personat veritatis pollicitatio quae quidem si tam manifesta monstratur vt in dubium venire non possit praeponenda est omnibus illis rebus quibus in catholica teneor Si autem tantummodo promittitur non exhibetur nemo me mouebit ab ea fide quae animum meum tot tantis nexibus Christianae religionis astringit S. Aug. contra Epist Manich. Fundam c. 4. Promittebaâ— scientiam veritatis nunc quod nescio cogis vt credam c. 5. Multò iustiùs cautiùs facio si catholicis quoniam semel credidi ad te non transeo nisi me non credere iusteris sed manifestissimè ac apertissimè scire aliquid feceris Quocirca si mihi rationem redditùrus es dimitte Euangelium Si ad Euangelium me tenes ego ad eos me teneam quibus praecipientibus Euangelio credidi his iubentibus tibi omnino non ctedam Quod si fortè in Euangelio aliquod apertissimum de Manichaei apostolatu inuenire potueris infirmabis mihi catholicorum authoritatem qui iubent mihi vt tibi non credam Qua infirmata iam nec Euangelio credere potero c. Sed absit vt ego Euangelio non credam Ibidem schollers but it proued a meere bragge §. X. 1. Optatus cited his Aduersaries who refused to submitte them selues to the Church to be tryed by the Testament admitted by themselues But the cause it self was in the iudgment of the whole Catholike world to be decided in a Councell and was in fine so determined 2. For finding out the truth in matter of faith recourse is to be made to the fountaine VOs dicitis licet nos non licet inter licet vestrum non licet nostrum nutant remigant animi populorum Nemo vobis credat nemo nobis omnes contentiosi homines sumus Esto Quaerendi sunt iudices si Christiani de vtraque parte dari non possunt quia studijs veritas impeditur Deforis quaerendus est Iudex si paganus non potest nosse Christiana secreta si Iudaeus inimicus est Christiani baptismatis Ergo in terriâ— nullum de hac re reperiri poâ—erit iudictum de caelo quaerendus est Iudex Sed vt quid palsamus ad caelum cum habeamus hic in Euangelio testamentum Baro p. 328. ex Optato 1. HAuing answered what was obiected out of S. Augugustine he will vndertake for vs to satisfie that you bring from Optatus and where he lookes about for a Iudge to decide the controuersie moued by the Donatists this great Doctour doth answer yea the a S. Aâ—g contra Donatiâ—tas passim Specialiter vide li. 2. de Bapt c. 7 li 5. c. 23. li. 1. coâ—t Cresc c. 31. 32 whole Catholike world did agree that the matter was to be defined in Councell and that not by cleere scripture there was none but by tradition By the testament yes not the written but the nuncupatiue By the holie Ghost c S Aug suprà inter citat ex Ock lit 1. a iudge from heauen but speaking b in a Councell The whole world did iudge that this verie Controuersie whereof Optatus speakes was to be determined so and accordinglie it was so determined and ended Neither doth Optatus denie that which all Catholikes when Saint Augustine wrote graunted and he himselfe yeelded as much of the c Serpit corum sermo vâ—lut cancer dixit hoc de haereticis quorum caeperat esse illis temporibus vitiosa doctrina c. Dictum est hoc de Arrio cuius doctrina nisi Nicaeno Concilio à 318. Episcopis dissiparetur pectora multorum sicut cancer intrauerat Optat. Milleu li. 4. Nicene Councell of whose authoritie wee shall presentlie heare more from S. Anathasius who was in it that the Church which hath promise of assistance or the Pastors all assembled in a CouÌ„cell those whom the holie Ghost hath placed to gouerne and our Sauiour hath giuen to keepe vs from being borne about with euerie winde of doctrine haue power to determine a controuersie in Religion But the Donatists excepting against the Catholikes as parties in the cause he betakes himselfe to scripture against which being admitted on both sides that pretended exception had no place children that contend about a Legacie both admit their father testament and if there his words decide the controuersie they rest and so he pleades the Donatists must do when the words of our Sauiours will or testament be showed vnles they proceede as they had denied Church-authoritie so to denie that and him So on he goes to shewe the thing inscripture But what if the words of the testameÌ„t be obscure The matter then requires a Iudge and this Iudge must haue authoritie and assistance if the case be as this was about diuine faith which assistance none hath but by vertue of our Sauiours promise and his promise was made to none but to the Church not to Pagans nor heretikes but to the Church wherefore the Church is to iudge Yet further what if the words of the testament haue it not at all the question was Whether one baptized by an heretike was to be baptized againe when he came into the Church The answer to which Question you doe not finde in scripture the d Qui lotus est c. place which Optatus brings doth not mention such as were baptized by heretikes There is not in all scripture Saint Augustine saies an e Quamuia huius rei certè de scripturis canonicis non proferatur exemplum c. S. Aug. li. cont Cresc c. 33 vt suprà Apostoli nihil quidem exinde praeceperunt sed consuetudo illa quae opponebatur Cypriano ab eorum traditione exordium sumpsisse credenda est sicut sunt multa quae vniuersa tenet Ecclesia ob hoc ab Apostolis praecepta benè creduÌ„tur quanquam scripta non reperian tur li. 5. de bapt c. 23. Cùm in Scripturis non inueniamus aliquos c. De vnitate
quâ—d antiquitus abomnibus Ecclesiae Catholicae Sacerdotibus vniuersalis Concilij authoritate decretum Deinde si qua noua c. c. 41. ExeÌ„pluÌ„ adhibuimus SaÌ„cti CoÌ„ciliâ— quod antè trienmum fermè in Asia apud Ephesum celebratum est c. Vniuersis Sacerdotibus qui illò ducenti feré conuenerant c. omnes verò Catholicos sacerdotes fuisse c. c. 42. Wee haue said that in the antiquitie of the Church two things are greatlie and with greate diligence to be obserued quibus wherevnto all those must adhere steedfastlie that will not be hereticks why do you start first of all if any thing should be auncientlie defined with the authoritie of an oecumenicall Councell by all the Priests of the Catholick Church and next if any new question should arise wherein that were not found recourse to be made to the opinions or sentences of holie Fathers those onelie who euerie one in their owne time and place were found to be approued masters continuing still in the vnitie of communion and faith and what soeuer they be found to haue held with one and the same meaning and consent that without all scruple should be iudged the true and Catholike doctrine of the Church Here besides the faith and profession of the Church symbolicall or vniuersall be two other rules wherevnto all that will not be flat heretiks must of necessitie conforme themselues the decrees of oecumenicall Councells and the vniforme consent of Fathers I leaue you now to compare your condition with his opinion What he deliuers in this matter is not his doctrine alone c. 1. That you conceaue him the better he presentlie brings for instance or example the proceedings of the Councell of Ephesus held l c. 42. three yeares no more before he wrote this booke wherein Nestorius was condemned the anathematismes of the Councell you may see when you please It is worth the noting by the way for it is your practise too and indeed of all hereticks that Nestorius as he relates in the end of the chapter renounced the authoritie of the Church in deciding controuersies affirming m c. 43. totam etiam nunc errare semper errasse Ecclesiam that the whole Church euen now in the time of the Councell doth erre and alwaies hath erred In the last chapter of all he brings in the authoritie of the See Apostolike and in fine concludes his booke If neither Apostolicall definitions nor Ecclesiasticall decrees whereby according to the sacred consent of vniuersalitie and antiquitie all Heretikes euer and in fine Pelagius Caelestius Nestorius haue been deseruedlie condemned be to be violated it is necessarie verilie that all Catholikes hereafter which haue a care to shewe themselues lawfull children of the mother-Church be associated and close ioyned vnto the faith of the holie Fathers and so insist that they die in it and that they detest abhorre speake against persecute the prophane nouelties of prophane men §. XIII Exceptions against a text or two refuted THE last Opposition which you make is against two of the places of Scripture which our Deuines bring to confirme the Councels infallibilitie These also least you conceaue there is difficultie I will consider as farre as your Opposition goes though otherwise not meddling with the Question de Iure which you finde in our Deuines discussed at large and then make an end The one of these places containes our Sauiours promise of the Holie Ghosts assistance made vnto the Church The Spirit of Truth when he comes shall teach you all truth Ioan. 14. 16. The other of the places represents vnto vs the interpretation of the forsaid promise as it was vnderstood by the Apostles who relying on it met in Councell and there defined a Controuersie It hath seemed good to the Holie Ghost and to vs. Acts 15. Against the former place you saie first that it is meant of the Apostles onlie This is false for it is foreuer I will aske my father and he will giue you another comforter that he remaine with you for euer the Spirit of truth And apud vos manebit he shall remaine with you Io. 14. the Catholike Church is his mysticall bodie which cannot subsist without his Spirit and for confirmation and illustration of her faith not onelie in the Apostles time when our Sauiour was gone but euer since after they be gonne she needs assistance of the Spirit Neither was it his minde to leaue the faithfull without such comfort non relinquam vos orphanos Ioh. 14. I will not leaue you orphans O father establish confirme sanctifie them in the truth I aske not for them onlie Ioh. 17. the Apostles but for the Church for those which by their word shall beleeue in me That by thy prouidence for my sake in our Spirit all be as it were one and agree to their proportion as wee doe who doe iudge and approue still the same But tell me hath the Spirit left the Church or is he still in it if he hath left it how hath she supernaturall operations how doth she beleeue the diuine word how doth she subsist as the Gospell saith she shall notwithstanding all the endeuours of hell it selfe Mat. 16. If he doth remaine in it it is then true that the promise holds still euen that which was made vnto the Church in the Apostles time and began first to be fulfilled in them The greatest promises in all the Scripture be two one of God the Father to send his sonne to redeeme the world the other of God the Sonne to send the holie Ghost his spirit to teach and instruct his Church if you doe not beleeue the later is performed you will giue vs cause to thinke that you would euacuate the former too and not trust God at all in his promise nor in his couenant neither though so farre you trust one another Ierem. 35. Ezech. 37. I will giue my lawe in their bowels and in their hart I will write it and I will be their God and they shall be my people My Spirit that is in thee and my words that I haue put in thy mouth Isa 59. shall not depart out of thy mouth and out of the mouth of thy seed and out of the mouth of the seed of thy seed saith our Lord from this present and foreuer See the Disp li. 3. Secondlie you saie that it is not to be vnderstood of all the dogmaticall points or doctrine by our Sauiour reuealed and deliuered vnto the Church but of some points onlie â—hose which are expressed in the Apostles Creed and not necessarilie of all those neither Here againe you doe manifestlie contradict the text of Scripture and open the waie to let errour and heresie into the Church For if the holie Ghost teach no more by the promise of our Sauiour then those fewe points it is impossible for men to knowe the truth touching other reuealed verities though they be necessarie to be knowne
he which contemneth you coÌ„temneth me wee must beleeue that when all deliuer one and the same thing as Gods word or meaning vnto the world then without all doubt our Sauiour speakes by them and he who heares or contemnes them doth heare or contemne Iesus Christ whose ministers and Embassadors they be 2. Corint 5. Neither doe you satisfie this argument by saying that you will heare them if they speake according to the word of God Disput li. 3. c. 1. 2. for therein you challenge vnto your selfe without warrant that which you denie to the whole clergie who in the Apostles were bid teach and had the promise of assistance and in the Question Whether they or you haue the true sence of Gods word as of this This is my body you most arrogantlie doe make your selfe the iudge Your selfe I say without the Spirit denying in the meane time and impugning the power of iudging in this case in and to them which haue and shewe the promise of the Spirit Vt Diodorum ac Theod. non expellereÌ„t PP aut inuenerunt eos iam mutasse sententiam aut quod extremum est admonitos mutate fecerunt Nam aliter coâ— in Ecclesia Catholica manere potuisse quis sapiens Catholicus credat Cum verò tanta quae dicta sunt ego indoctus Latinae linguae de causa apud Graecos habita post centum annos pro meo captu facultate vel intelligere vel explicare potuerim quanta credendum est illam Sanctorum Patrum Congregationem in causa penes se recenti memoria cognoscere potuisse illo etiam reuelante qui dixit Vbi sunt duo vel tres congregati in nomine meo ibi in medio eorum sum Nam fideliter inuocatus non solum à Sacerdotibus sed ab omni quoque populo suo cuius fides expectatio ex illorum Authoritate dependet dat omnibus congregatis vnum cor animam vnam vt nullus eorum suam velit esse sententiam nisi quae fuerit veritatis Quoâ—ies ibi doctiores indoctioribus plures paucioribus illo eorum medio cedunt Qâ—oties etiam per nescientes scienter operatur ipse qui potest omnia facere supra quam petimus aut intelligimus qui promisit quòd nobiscum sit omnibus diâ—bus vsque ad consummationem saeculi Vtinam sibi nunquam saecularis potestas quod ei creditum non est in his negotijs vsurparet quae nunquam faeliciter vsurpauit Caeterùm congregatis in suo nomine Christus deesse non potest quia cùm sit omnipotens Veritas mentiri nullatenus potest Facund Episc Defens Chalced. Concilij li 8. c. 7. Et in eandem sententiam plura li. 12. c. 2. inter alia verò de sancto Leone dicit Neque vlterius retractare neque discutere se posse professus est ea quae semel fuerant Chalcedonensi definita Concilio velut quae nosset non tam humano quà m diuino Spiritu constituta This Father as also S. Aug. when they saie God reueales vnto the Councell vse the word something largelie in the sence imported in the promise of Assistance docebit vos suggeret vobis See the Disput pag 404. See the Disput l. 3. c. 6. Fourthly he that seeth the truth of this and would yet flie Councells will imagine perchance that although the Pastors all dispersed when they consent haue the warrant of the Spirit yet not when they be gathered in a Councell But this imaginatioÌ„ argues a weaknes in coÌ„ceauing the termes which are spoken of for in this congregation or Councell there is the whole teaching-power which teaching power as hath been shewed hath and by promise diuine assistance and is to establish the rest predestinate and all in faith and true beleefe Fiftlie you will saie that in generall Councells all the Pastors or Bishops be not present if they were you would beleeue what they propose because the whole exteriour teaching-authoritie is there obliging and they shewe their warrant Luc. â—0 he that heareth you heareth me Would your fellowes doe this there were but one thing more to be disputed in this matter that is Whether it be necessarie to the generalitie of a CouÌ„cell that all the Pastors and Bishops without exception be actuallie present in it the resolution of which Question wee haue in the practice of the Apostles and of the primitiue Church so that no further difficultie can be pretended if the truth be reallie our desire and hereticall obstinacie put aside See the Disput li. 4. c. 7. 8. Against the later place which brings with it the Apostles interpretation of the promise registred in the former it is said first that although that Councell had the assistance of the holie Ghost in making of their decree so that it was his also as their words import yet others after haue it not it was you think a priuiledge in them and lasted no longer in the Church but wilst they liued This euasion is precluded both by the words and the circumstances of the graunt it was made vnto the Apostles as Pastors for establishing of the Church dedit Pastores Ephes 4. vt iam non simus paruuli fluctuantes circumferamur c. which Church needed it not onelie in the Apostles time but afterwards The Arian Sabellian Nestorian and other Heresies as other difficulties whereof some were about the most fundamentall points in the verie Creed did arise and the diuel hath not yet donne suggesting heresie and oppugning the doctrine which our Sauiour left vnto the Church and thereby impugning Him and Her wherefore still it is necessarie And accordinglie the promise was absolute without limitation of yeeres or ages Yea the text it selfe hath in aeternum Ioann 14. Ephes 4. for euer and donec occurramus omnes vntill wee meete all Secondlie it is said that vnto Pastors so assembled the holie Ghost by vertue of the promise is present assisting to fundamentall points but no further Before you would haue detracted from the graunt and wiped out of it the latitude of time now you limit it for the matter If a Lawier should vse your lease so you would exclaime that he did corrupt it WheÌ„ our Sauiour had prayed to his Father that he would establish or Sanctifie his Apostles and those who by their meanes were to beleeue in him that is his Church in the truth he did presentlie vnfould what he meant by that truth and said sermo tuus est veritas thy word the word of God is the truth and in this which comprehends not the Apostles Creed onlie he would haue theÌ„ established This sanctification is according to S. Cyrill a participation of the holy Ghost ad intelligendas rectè Scripturas Ecclesiae dogmata Cyrill Alex. in Ioan. li. 11. cap. 25. to vnderstand the Scriptures well and the doctrine of the Church In a like fullnes doth our Sauiour himselfe expresse the latitude of
Docete Matt. vlt. This Catholikes do know they be grounded they take the secure way The way which you take is temerarious it is the same which Heresie doth vsuallie take to spred it self And in making choise of it you shew in your self the disposition of a Sectarie The Sectarie findes an opinion auouched by two or three against the common and against the Spirit of the Church generallie yet because it likes him for that it is easier to be conceaued or more agreeable to some phantasie that he hath or better suting to the libertie which he could wish he is coÌ„tent to â—hink the authoritie of those â—â—o or three though the â—â—st contradict sufficient to â—ake is probable and then iudâ—ng of the reasons and motiâ—es which they bring as his â—â—fections incline him he thinks 〈◊〉 at last certaine So did the â—rians depending vpon the â—uthoritie first of their leaâ—ers and then deeming their â—otiue as that pater maior me 〈◊〉 to be manifestlie against the Church and for them Neither be the Leaders themselues Arch-heretickes wiâ—â—out pretence of authoritie they cite the d Fortasse aliquisinterroget An Haeretici diuinae Scripturae testimonijs vtantur Vtuntur planè vehemeÌ„ter quidem nam videas eos volate per singulaquae que sanctae legis volumina per Moysi per Regum volumina per Psalmos per Apostolos per Euangelia per Prophetas Siue enim apud suos siue alienos siue priuatim siue publice siue in sermonibus siue in libris siue in conuiuijs siue in plateis nihil vnquam paenè de suo proferuÌ„t quod non etiam Scripturae verbâ—s adumbrare conentur Vinc. lirin c. 35. Si quis interroget queÌ„piam Haereâ—â—corum sibi talia persuadentem vnde probas vnde doces quod Ecclesiae Catholicae Vniuersalem antiquam fidem dimittere debeam Statim ille mille testimonia mille exempla mille authoritates parat de lege de psalmis de apostolis de prophetis quibus nouo malo more interpretatis ex arce Catholica in Haereseôs barathrum infoelix anima praecipitetur Idem c. 37. vbi ostendit eos à diabolo moduÌ„ istum didicisse Scriptum est enim Scriptures â—â—d gleane obscure speaches â—t of auncient good writers which in shewe do make for them When a man once takes this â—ay he squares out his Religion to himself or rather he runnes out of all from one thing to another from more to fewer points or articles from that he calls probable to lesse and yet lesse and lesse probable till at last is he findes himself most certainlie in Hell Faith is a firme assent but his if well examined is not so It is not diuine faith he doth but flatter himself and deceaue others with a shadow If two or three tell him thatâ— Councell may mistake though the rest auouch the contrarie he is content to think it may and heereupon presentlie doubts of all that is so defined Then further proceeding iâ— the same sillie motiue if thâ— whole Church auouch a thing yet so as some two or three at some time or other held thâ— contrarie he will not beleeâ—â— the Church neither No nor the Apostles if any tell him they might erre A Rainolds a Whittakers authoritie makes the contrarie to him probable and by that time he hath read their bookes he thinkes himself certaine of it But in the meane while where is the faith of such a man wherevnto doth he giue a firme assent To the Scriptures No their authoritie who denied them makes him doubt To the Creed nor so the authoritie of two or three serues his turne and there is nothing in the Creede that more then two or three haue not refused Arianisme Nestorianisme Sabellianisme Eutichianisme Pelagianisme Lutheranisme Swinglianisme all great Heresies haue had multitudes of abbetâ—ors whereas two or three serue his turne Where then is his religion in his mouth peraduenture but in his heart well examined there is none Others there be not so readie to relie indifferentlie vpon the Authoritie of any whatsoeuer esteemed learned but determined extreamelie vnto one The Puritan for example to Iohn Caluin whom he prefers before the rest all together Wherein he shewes himself as extrauagantlie peccant against the light of nature as the former AmoÌ„gst the many principes or Axiomes which reason dictates to the Prudent this is one that in matters of beleefe the greatest Authoritie must sway our vnderstanding He will not denie that this is true he might as well denie the sunne shines at middaie but his manner of proceeding doth inuolue a deniall of it The authoritie of a Councell entirelie oecumenicall is greater then the Authoritie of one single man The greatest â—chollers haue euer stooped to 〈◊〉 yet the Puritan rather beleeues Caluin then such a Councell Yea rather then all the knowne Churches in the world though e Though some now disseÌ„t as you for example yet these points haue had the consent of all Christian Churches as many as beleeued that our B. Sauiour had true flesh and blood consenting As in the matter of the Masse vnbloodie Sacrifice reall Presence And what way is there think you to deale with such a man or to what end is it to dispute with him If you cite Scripture he will rather take the comment of his Master Iohn then the definition and tradition howeuer auncient of the whole Church deliuering the sence of it It is so in the point of the Reall presence And in admitting the Bookes of Scripture too he will be his owne chooser and will iudge himself which is good and sound and which ought to be discarded Vide disput de Eccles pag. 304. But who shall decide the coÌ„trouersie betwixt the Church and him touching the meaning of that Scripture which he pleaseth to let passe for currant The Spirit no doubt But in whom in the Church or the vniuersitie of beleeuers before his time Not so They might erre he thinkes and so might all the Councells of Bishops that euer were and all the Pastors of the world though consenting they might all he thinks be deceaued Where then speakes the Iudge he meanes to stand to when the Controuersie is about the sence of Scripture or about the sinceritie of the letter in whom speakes the Spirit which he will permit to be his Master In Master Iohn So he beleeues rather theÌ„ he will beleeue that he speaketh in the Church Now tell me is not this a strange manner of proceeding in matters appertaining to our eternall estate to challeng to ones self or his Master Iohn authoritie to teach and interprete Scripture and to denie it to the whole Senate of Catholike Bishops and Pastors whom God hath giuen to teach diuine doctrine and to keepe the Church from wauering in such matters and not onlie to them Ephes 4 in what age soeuer but absolutelie to the Church without exempting the first Disciples and Apostles These for
sooth be the men that in the pulpits crie so lowde who disesteeming the whole world besides obtrude themselues as masters of mankind each an Oracle I know you wash your hands your words condemne their insolencie you will not seeme to participate of their fault But what is in your heart Are not you too one of those that abbet a priuate judgment against a publike You plead against the power of the Church to determine matter of faith in her generall assemblies that I see And I know too that you punish men for not conforming themselues to the determinations of one not generall Reconcile these if you can And tell me if I be not bound to conforme my judgment to the judgment of a Councell when it is perfectlie oecumenicall what shall binde me to conforme it vnto one that is onelie Nationall if the Decrees of the whole Church may be lawfullie refused what obligeth me in conscience and before God to receaue the Decrees of your Conuocation Is euerie subiect bound to be of his Princes Religion or is it lawfull for him to subscribe against that he knowes to be the truth Is England since you began to teach growne bigger then all the world is a part is was not of old so bigger then the whole In way of excuse for your not subscribing to decrees oecumenicall you plead the Authoritie of some fewe men how vniustlie heareafter it will appeare and shall not the Authoritie of farre more and those great Schollers excuse vs in conscience for not subscribing to your priuate Articles wherein be many things generallie condemned in former ages To giue instance in one point that containes many In your 23. article you determine thus The Sacrifices of Masses in the which was commonlie said that the Priests did offer Christ for the quick and the dead to haue remission of paine or guilt were blasphemous fables and dangerous deceits So you Yet was this Sacrifice frequented f Missa abominatio in calice aureo propinata omnes reges terra populos à summo vsque ad nouissimum sic inebriauit vt proram puppim suae salutis in hac vna voragine statuerint Caluin Instit li. 4. c. 18. See the Protest Apol. tract 3. Sect. 1. and in the Conclusion to the Iudges Sect. 6. 10. generallie when Luther began to make your Schisme It was auowed in the g S. Iren. li. 4. c. 32. Noui testamenti Nouam docuit oblationem quam Ecclesia ab Apostolis accipiens in vniuerso mundo offert Deo Concil Nicenum 1. can 14. S. Cyrill cum eo Concil Ephes in Anathem 11. S. Augu. Conc. 1. in Psalm 33. Nondum erat sacrificium Corporis Sanguinis Domini quod nunc diffusum est toto orbe terrarum S. Ambros de Sacram. li. 4. 5 S. Cyrill Catech. myst 5 S. Chrysost lib. 3. 6. de Sacerdotio Hom. 17. in Epist ad Hebraeos His Liturgie is yet extant And so is S. Basils too S. Gregor Nyssen Hom. 1. de Resurr Praeoccupat impetum violentum ac sese in oblationem victimam offert pro nobis Sacerdes simul agnus Dei. Vide Disp li. 5 c. 9 Coccium in Thesanro t 2. li. 6. a. 4. times primitiue And our Sauiours h This is my bodie which is broken for you This is the blood of the new testament which is shed for you words registred in the i 1. Cor. 11. Matt. 26. That it was offered for the quick and the dead it is also testified abundantlie S. Epiphan Haeres 75 where he saith also the Church receaued it by tradition S. Cyrill Cathec 5. Pro omnibus oramus qui ante nos vita functi sunt maximum credentes animarum iuuamen pro quibus offertur obsecratio sancti illius tremendi quod ante nos iacet Sacrificij S. Chrysost Homil. 3 in Epist ad Phil. Non frustra hac ab Apostolis sunt legibus constituta vt in venerandis inquam atque horrisicis mysterijs memoria corum fiat qui decesserunt nouerant hinc multum ad illos lucri accedere multum vtilitatis S. August in Enchirid. ad Laurent c. 110. lib. de cura pro mort c. 1. c. 4. Non sunt praetermittenda supplicationes pro Spiritibus mortuorum vt quibus ad ista desunt parentes aut filij ab vna is exhibeatur â—ia matre Ecclesia Lib. 9. Confess c. 13. Meminerint ad altare tuum Monica famulae tuae cum Patritio quondam eius coniuge c. S. Ioan. Damasc Orat. quod defuncti Missis inuentur Quod quidem citra vllam controuersiam Catholica Apostolica Ecclesia sine vlla ambiguitate retinet c. Vt consuetudinis testem â—llum cito The like appeares by the Liturgies Where obserue that I reflect preciselie vpon the termes of your Article which condemneth vnbloodie Sacrifice offered by the Priest for the Quick and the Dead to haue remission of paine or guilt If this be a blasphemous fable the whole world was in Errour So commonlie was it said and esteemed lawfull and so vniuersallie frequented See further Gualterius his Chronographicall table verit decima The Protestants Apol. tract 1. Sect. 3. subd 4. and Sect. 7. subd 6. The Conference of Cath. and Prot. doct li. 2. c. 24. angl Bible being vnderstood in their natiue proper sence do k What necessitie there is to enquire into the true sence of these words This is my bodie will best appeare in the after-examination of the diuers consequences of your owne sence to wit your doctrine of transsubstantiation corporall and materiall presence propitiatorie sacrifice and proper adoration all which depend vpon your Romish exposition of the former words of Christ The issue then wâ—ll be this that if the words be certainelie true in a proper and litterall sence then wee are to yeild to you the whole cause Morton Instit. of Masse li. 2. c. 1. I omit to note how Luther who did impugne the Sacrifice of Masse had his instructions from the Deuil as doth appeare still by his owne booke de Missa Priuata p. 228 Ego coram vobis And p. 230 â— â—n summa Edit Wittemb anno 1558. where he puts dâ—wne the Deuils arguments amongst which one is against vnbloodie Sacrifice Contra institutionem Christi Missa vsus es pro Sacrificio c. §. quarto confessedlie make for and confirme it Now should wee subscribe to your Article wee should contradict all this Wee should contradict open Scripture interpreted by the whole Christian world and by the l And this Spirit is the Holie Ghost Ioh. 14. 16. Spirit in it And whilst you sollicite vs so to do what do you but abbet a priuate Spirit and this too importunelie vnseasonablie then when you denie to the whole Church power to define the veritie euen of this cause or to declare the sence of Scripture touching it in her Councels oecumenicall I am not disposed