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ID Title Author Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication) STC Words Pages
A39267 The reflecter's defence of his Letter to a friend against the furious assaults of Mr. I.S. in his Second Catholic letter in four dialogues. Ellis, Clement, 1630-1700. 1688 (1688) Wing E570; ESTC R17613 51,900 75

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the_o channel_n yet_o it_o seem_v the_o church_n have_v the_o kindness_n to_o hold_v up_o the_o empty_a cabinet_n in_o her_o hand_n whilst_o she_o secure_v the_o jewel_n in_o her_o bosom_n i._o s._n st._n peter_n ship_n the_o church_n that_o catch_v so_o many_o fish_n at_o first_o the_o body_n of_o primitive_a christian_n have_v store_v up_o provision_n enough_o for_o the_o succession_n of_o faith_n to_o the_o world_n end_n and_o there_o we_o may_v find_v it_o to_o our_o hand_n we_o need_v not_o therefore_o fish_n for_o our_o faith_n in_o the_o channel_n of_o tiber_n as_o your_o great_a wit_n tell_v we_o ib._n c._n i_o will_v not_o though_o for_o two_o penny_n not_o have_v venture_v that_o little_a conceit_n of_o i_o see_v it_o be_v return_v home_o again_o with_o so_o rare_a a_o discovery_n it_o will_v not_o be_v mannerly_a to_o inquire_v when_o ship_n catch_v fish_n when_o they_o sail_v or_o when_o they_o sink_v nor_o how_o fish_n catch_v themselves_o or_o how_o the_o body_n of_o christian_n which_o be_v the_o church_n be_v catch_v by_o the_o church_n which_o be_v that_o body_n or_o how_o those_o christian_n be_v now_o the_o provision_n of_o faith_n store_v up_o to_o the_o world_n end_n it_o be_v plain_a you_o mean_v the_o church_n of_o rome_n have_v the_o whole_a doctrine_n of_o faith_n store_v up_o in_o her_o breast_n for_o all_o age_n and_o we_o be_v fool_n for_o seek_v it_o in_o the_o unsense_v character_n of_o scripture_n where_o it_o be_v not_o yet_o have_v you_o sir_n a_o worthy_a opinion_n of_o the_o scripture_n i_o will_v have_v say_v st._n peter_n and_o his_o partner_n with_o their_o net_n the_o word_n of_o god_n catch_v man_n instead_o of_o fish_n as_o christ_n have_v promise_v and_o with_o the_o same_o net_n convey_v to_o we_o by_o tradition_n in_o scripture_n the_o minister_n of_o christ_n do_v still_o fish_v with_o good_a success_n consider_v if_o this_o allegorise_a of_o you_o will_v not_o suit_v better_o also_o with_o one_o of_o your_o sermon_n than_o with_o your_o controversy_n i._o s._n all_o this_o be_v but_o prelude_n now_o come_v mr._n g.'s_n argument_n the_o first_o proposition_n whereof_o be_v this_o all_o traditionary_a christian_n believe_v the_o same_o to_o day_n which_o they_o do_v yesterday_o and_o so_o up_o to_o the_o time_n of_o our_o bless_a saviour_n there_o be_v no_o deny_v this_o proposition_n but_o by_o affirm_v that_o traditionary_a christian_n be_v not_o traditionary_a christian_n l._n p._n 8._o c._n but_o suppose_v these_o traditionary_a christian_n be_v so_o call_v from_o their_o adhere_n to_o a_o tradition_n which_o reach_v not_o so_o high_a as_o our_o b._n saviour_n time_n but_o only_o pertend_v to_o it_o etc._n etc._n a._n p._n 20._o i._o s._n whether_o we_o only_o pretend_v to_o it_o or_o no_o will_v be_v see_v when_o the_o four_o proposition_n come_v to_o be_v examine_v r._n p._n 26._o the_o second_o proposition_n be_v this_o if_o they_o follow_v this_o rule_n they_o can_v err_v in_o faith._n this_o be_v palpable_o self_n evident_a whence_o follow_v the_o three_o and_o therefore_o they_o be_v infallible_a r._n p._n 47._o c._n but_o unless_o the_o rule_n of_o tradition_n which_o they_o follow_v be_v long_o than_o it_o be_v yet_o prove_v to_o be_v they_o may_v follow_v it_o and_o err_v all_o along_o by_o follow_v it_o a._n p._n 21._o i._o s._n no_o doubt_n of_o it_o r._n p._n 47._o c._n then_o prove_v it_o to_o be_v of_o sufficient_a length_n i._o s._n as_o if_o we_o have_v never_o prove_v our_o tradition_n reach_v to_o our_o saviour_n day_n ib._n c._n i_o know_v not_o when_o suppose_v you_o have_v that_o be_v not_o all_o for_o let_v it_o be_v never_o so_o long_o yet_o if_o you_o follow_v it_o not_o you_o may_v err_v and_o therefore_o be_v not_o infallible_a except_o you_o show_v you_o can_v choose_v but_o follow_v it_o a._n p._n 21._o i._o s._n the_o four_o proposition_n bring_v to_o prove_v that_o this_o tradition_n we_o lay_v claim_v to_o do_v indeed_o reach_v to_o christ_n and_o his_o apostle_n be_v this_o they_o can_v not_o innovate_v in_o faith_n unless_o they_o do_v forget_v what_o they_o hold_v the_o day_n before_o or_o out_o of_o malice_n alter_v it_o r._n p._n 48._o c._n you_o undertake_v to_o make_v this_o out_o more_o clear_o l._n p._n 18_o and_o therefore_o i_o will_v hear_v what_o you_o say_v there_o for_o our_o better_a information_n a._n p._n 21._o i._o s._n this_o be_v a_o most_o evident_a and_o a_o most_o unconscionable_a falsification_n clear_v your_o credit_n when_o you_o can_v i_o charge_v it_o upon_o you_o as_o a_o voluntary_a insincerity_n r._n p._n 48_o 49._o c._n good_a word_n i_o pray_v sir._n what_o be_v it_o i_o have_v do_v i._o s._n you_o have_v direct_o falfify_v that_o whole_a discourse_n by_o pretend_v here_o that_o the_o word_n you_o cite_v be_v to_o make_v out_o that_o four_o proposition_n clear_o whereas_o the_o truth_n of_o that_o proposition_n be_v make_v out_o by_o i_o l._n p._n 9_o c._n i_o see_v it_o sir_n and_o speak_v to_o it_o too_o as_o i_o shall_v show_v anon_o what_o be_v those_o word_n of_o you_o i_o cite_v recite_v they_o i_o pray_v and_o i_o will_v recite_v my_o answer_n to_o they_o i._o s._n do_v christ_n teach_v any_o error_n l._n p._n 18._o c._n he_o do_v not_o a._n p._n 21._o i._o s._n when_o a_o father_n believe_v what_o christ_n teach_v he_o and_o the_o son_n what_o the_o father_n believe_v do_v not_o the_o son_n too_o believe_v what_o christ_n teach_v ib._n c._n no_o doubt_n of_o it_o but_o he_o do_v ib._n i._o s._n run_v it_o on_o to_o the_o last_o son_n that_o shall_v be_v bear_v in_o the_o world_n must_v not_o every_o one_o believe_v what_o christ_n teach_v if_o every_o one_o believe_v what_o his_o father_n believe_v ib._n c._n it_o be_v certain_a he_o must_v ib._n i._o s._n and_o will_v you_o then_o go_v about_o to_o persuade_v we_o that_o there_o actual_o be_v a_o company_n of_o man_n in_o the_o world_n who_o adhere_v to_o this_o method_n all_o son_n believe_v always_o as_o their_o father_n do_v whereof_o the_o first_o believe_v as_o christ_n teach_v and_o who_o notwithstanding_o err_v in_o matter_n of_o faith_n c._n no_o you_o may_v be_v sure_a on_o it_o these_o than_o be_v your_o word_n i_o cite_v i._o s._n this_o discourse_n be_v level_v at_o a_o quite_o different_a business_n viz._n that_o a_o church_n can_v not_o adhere_v to_o tradition_n and_o err_v in_o faith_n at_o the_o same_o time_n c._n it_o be_v true_a and_o i_o see_v it_o that_o this_o be_v it_o you_o there_o make_v out_o but_o i_o do_v not_o yet_o see_v how_o it_o be_v a_o quite_o different_a business_n from_o that_o which_o i_o say_v you_o undertake_v to_o make_v out_o more_o clear_o it_o be_v not_o prove_v i_o mean_v by_o make_v out_o more_o clear_o but_o illustrate_v or_o explain_v nor_o be_v it_o the_o whole_a which_o according_a to_o you_o consist_v of_o a_o proposition_n and_o its_o proof_n but_o the_o proposition_n only_o i_o say_v you_o undertake_v there_o to_o illustrate_v and_o therefore_o i_o will_v not_o proceed_v to_o the_o proof_n which_o you_o will_v seem_v to_o make_v out_o p._n 9_o till_o i_o have_v consider_v how_o you_o explain_v the_o proposition_n p._n 18._o which_o after_o i_o have_v do_v i_o come_v to_o examine_v your_o proof_n as_o you_o call_v it_o both_o as_o it_o be_v p._n 9_o and_o as_o you_o again_o talk_v of_o it_o p._n 32._o this_o you_o see_v a._n p._n 23._o where_o then_o lie_v the_o falsification_n the_o proposition_n be_v they_o can_v not_o innovate_v in_o faith._n who_o be_v they_o that_o can_v traditionary_a christian_n and_o who_o be_v these_o they_o that_o hold_v the_o same_o to_o day_n which_o they_o do_v yesterday_o etc._n etc._n what_o can_v these_o do_v they_o can_v innovate_v or_o err_v in_o faith._n so_o say_v i_o you_o explain_v it_o p._n 18._o and_o do_v you_o not_o so_o though_o it_o be_v upon_o another_o occasion_n do_v you_o not_o show_v that_o if_o they_o hold_v to_o tradition_n or_o be_v traditionary_a christian_n they_o can_v whilst_o they_o be_v so_o and_o when_o they_o be_v not_o so_o they_o be_v none_o of_o the_o they_o in_o the_o proposition_n innovate_v or_o err_v in_o faith_n overcharge_v often_o occasion_n recoil_v and_o if_o your_o conscience_n feel_v it_o not_o so_o much_o the_o worse_o and_o now_o after_o all_o this_o noise_n one_o little_a thing_n be_v yet_o to_o be_v prove_v viz._n that_o these_o traditionary_a christian_n adhere_v undecline_o to_o a_o unquestionable_a tradition_n descend_v real_o and_o unvariable_o from_o christ_n and_o his_o apostle_n and_o can_v not_o possible_o do_v otherwise_o that_o be_v that_o they_o neither_o do_v nor_o can_v err_v
to_o utter_v it_o i._o s._n the_o difference_n constitute_v your_o protestant_a rule_n as_o distinguish_v from_o that_o of_o most_o abominable_a heretic_n can_v only_o be_v as_o my_o own_o judgement_n or_o other_o of_o my_o side_n thus_o or_o thus_o interpret_v the_o letter_n of_o scripture_n and_o wriggle_v which_o way_n you_o will_v there_o it_o will_v and_o must_v end_v at_o last_o l._n p._n 26._o c._n who_o can_v expect_v loss_n but_o that_o where_o man_n pretend_v to_o infallibility_n they_o shall_v also_o pretend_v to_o know_v what_o be_v our_o rule_n better_o than_o we_o ourselves_o poor_a fallible_a creature_n do_v a._n p._n 28._o i._o s._n we_o take_v it_o as_o ill_a of_o you_o that_o you_o will_v have_v we_o believe_v you_o before_o our_o own_o evident_a reason_n r._n p._n 74._o c._n i_o believe_v you_o i._o s._n you_o assure_v we_o plain_a scripture_n be_v your_o rule_n that_o be_v as_o appear_v by_o your_o discourse_n as_o you_o be_v such_o a_o kind_n of_o protestant_n ib._n c._n as_o i_o be_o a_o protestant_n and_o a_o member_n of_o the_o church_n of_o england_n i._o s._n plain_o in_o what_o point_v r.p._n 75._o c._n in_o all_o point_n necessary_a to_o salvation_n i._o s._n to_o who_o ib._n c._n to_o all_o that_o be_v capable_a of_o understand_v plain_a word_n and_o sense_n i._o s._n by_o what_o kind_n of_o light_n ib._n c._n by_o the_o same_o whereby_o other_o book_n be_v plain_a as_o far_o as_o concern_v the_o literal_a sense_n of_o the_o word_n and_o sentence_n i._o s._n experience_n tell_v we_o that_o scripture_n be_v not_o plain_a even_o in_o the_o high_a point_n of_o faith_n since_o many_o follow_v it_o and_o yet_o go_v astray_o ib._n c._n they_o go_v astray_o not_o by_o follow_v it_o but_o by_o endeavour_v to_o make_v it_o follow_v they_o i._o s._n if_o it_o be_v so_o plain_a all_o your_o useful_a help_n be_v needless_a ib._n c._n how_o plain_o do_v you_o mean_v tho'_o a_o child_n lesson_n be_v plain_a yet_o needs_o he_o useful_a help_n to_o learn_v it_o i._o s._n scripture_n conceive_v by_o you_o to_o be_v plain_a can_v never_o be_v make_v out_o by_o you_o to_o be_v absolute_o certain_a ib._n c._n it_o be_v enough_o for_o we_o to_o be_v moral_o certain_a of_o plain_a scripture_n i._o s._n socinian_o proceed_v upon_o scripture_n plain_a to_o they_o as_o their_o rule_n and_o yet_o err_v ib._n c._n it_o be_v plain_a they_o err_v by_o not_o adhere_v to_o plain_a scripture_n but_o to_o their_o own_o natural_a reason_n wherewith_o they_o use_v all_o their_o art_n to_o make_v the_o scripture_n agree_v contrary_a to_o the_o most_o plain_a and_o obvious_a sense_n of_o the_o word_n the_o interpretation_n of_o scripture_n by_o any_o sect_n of_o people_n romanist_n or_o other_o be_v extrinsical_a to_o the_o rule_n and_o no_o constitutive_a difference_n of_o it_o as_o you_o imagine_v a._n p._n 28._o i._o s._n still_o scripture_n as_o interpretable_a by_o yourselves_o be_v your_o particular_a rule_n and_o not_o extrinsical_a to_o it_o ib._n c._n scripture_n as_o interpretable_a be_v not_o extrinsical_a to_o our_o rule_n but_o be_v indeed_o our_o rule_n yet_o be_v the_o interpretation_n of_o it_o extrinsical_a to_o it_o which_o be_v that_o i_o say_v i._o s._n it_o be_v your_o own_o interpretation_n we_o say_v be_v your_o rule_n ib._n c._n we_o say_v it_o be_v not_o and_o according_a to_o you_o it_o can_v be_v who_o say_v that_o scripture_n as_o interpretable_a be_v our_o rule_n i_o hope_v the_o interpretation_n of_o a_o thing_n and_o the_o thing_n interpretable_a be_v not_o one_o i._o s._n be_v not_o the_o sense_n of_o scripture_n your_o faith_n r._n 76._o c._n it_o be_v material_o that_o which_o we_o believe_v i._o s._n be_v not_o that_o essential_o your_o particular_a rule_n of_o faith_n that_o give_v you_o your_o particular_a faith_n ib._n c._n what_o be_v all_o this_o cloud_n of_o word_n for_o we_o have_v no_o particular_a rule_n or_o faith_n objective_o take_v but_o that_o which_o be_v ordain_v of_o god_n for_o the_o common_a rule_n and_o faith_n of_o all_o christian_n i._o s._n must_v i_o mind_v you_o again_o that_o it_o be_v the_o very_a essence_n as_o i_o may_v say_v or_o nature_n of_o interpretation_n to_o give_v you_o the_o sense_n of_o the_o word_n of_o scripture_n which_o in_o our_o case_n be_v your_o faith._n ib._n c._n you_o may_v say_v as_o you_o please_v so_o you_o speak_v to_o be_v understand_v but_o that_o be_v not_o always_o your_o design_n else_o will_v you_o speak_v a_o little_a plain_o how_o often_o must_v i_o mind_v you_o that_o the_o scripture_n alone_o be_v our_o rule_n by_o understanding_n whereof_o we_o learn_v what_o to_o believe_v the_o interpretation_n of_o it_o the_o essence_n whereof_o you_o talk_v of_o be_v our_o search_n for_o and_o discover_v of_o the_o sense_n and_o so_o our_o learning_n to_o understand_v it_o and_o not_o our_o rule_n i._o s._n venture_v bold_o to_o declare_v what_o be_v your_o particular_a rule_n c._n our_o rule_n in_o general_n be_v the_o word_n of_o god_n in_o particular_a if_o you_o will_v needs_o have_v it_o so_o and_o in_o contradistinction_n to_o your_o rule_n of_o scripture_n and_o tradition_n or_o tradition_n only_o it_o be_v the_o same_o word_n write_v or_o the_o scripture_n only_o and_o as_o difference_v from_o both_o romanist_n and_o other_o heretic_n and_o sectary_n it_o be_v the_o same_o scripture_n still_o plain_o deliver_v a_o sense_n own_a and_o declare_v by_o the_o primitive_a church_n of_o christ_n in_o the_o three_o creed_n four_o first_o general_n council_n and_o harmony_n of_o the_o father_n a._n p._n 28._o i._o s._n since_o difference_n use_v to_o be_v essential_a whether_o be_v these_o word_n own_a and_o declare_v etc._n etc._n at_o all_o essential_a or_o not_o ib._n c._n to_o our_o rule_n i_o suppose_v you_o mean._n i_o say_v they_o be_v not_o and_o so_o you_o have_v lose_v a_o sine_fw-la discourse_n p._n 77_o 78._o i._o s._n if_o not_o since_o if_o you_o be_v orthodox_n you_o ought_v to_o have_v a_o rule_n essential_o distinct_a from_o that_o of_o heretic_n and_o sectary_n what_o be_v this_o essential_a different_a rule_n of_o you_o r._n p._n 76._o c._n i_o know_v no_o such_o thing_n as_o that_o the_o orthodox_n and_o heretic_n ought_v to_o have_v several_a rule_n essential_o as_o you_o say_v distinct_a these_o may_v differ_v each_o from_o other_o in_o their_o faith_n and_o yet_o not_o in_o the_o rule_n tho'_o in_o the_o interpret_n of_o it_o they_o do_v thus_o have_v i_o endeavour_v notwithstanding_o the_o many_o squib_n you_o have_v throw_v in_o the_o way_n to_o scare_v or_o vex_v i_o to_o trace_v you_o step_v by_o step_n wherever_o i_o can_v discern_v the_o least_o colour_n of_o reason_n and_o yet_o i_o confess_v be_v the_o far_o great_a part_n of_o your_o long_a letter_n unanswered_a and_o must_v be_v so_o for_o i_o for_o shall_v i_o follow_v your_o frisk_a and_o playsome_a fancy_n over_o hedge_n and_o through_o puddle_n as_o she_o will_v lead_v i_o i_o shall_v too_o well_o deserve_v the_o character_n of_o a_o everlasting_a trifler_n for_o run_v after_o butterfly_n which_o you_o have_v so_o friendly_o bestow_v on_o sir_n your_o servant_n finis_fw-la
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my_o meaning_n be_v this_o clear_o enough_o to_o he_o that_o will_v not_o wrangle_v you_o imagine_v we_o have_v no_o certainty_n at_o all_o and_o that_o we_o think_v ourselves_o well_o enough_o as_o long_o as_o you_o can_v prove_v we_o have_v none_o i._o s._n well_o but_o do_v i_o say_v true_a or_o no_o c._n in_o that_o which_o you_o say_v you_o mean_v you_o say_v true_a i._o s._n because_o i_o say_v then_o our_o not_o prove_v the_o contrary_n be_v no_o certainty_n to_o protestant_n you_o will_v have_v i_o imagine_v it_o be_v their_o certainty_n nay_o all_o their_o certainty_n r._n p._n 9_o c._n not_o that_o it_o be_v our_o certainty_n so_o as_o we_o be_v therefore_o certain_a yet_o all_o our_o certainty_n for_o you_o imagine_v we_o have_v no_o other_o and_o now_o it_o be_v my_o turn_n to_o ask_v do_v i_o say_v true_a or_o no_o if_o true_a why_o say_v you_o i_o wrong_v you_o if_o not_o you_o grant_v we_o have_v some_o other_o certainty_n though_o you_o undertake_v to_o show_v we_o 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